When starting up as the 5th most important sport in your own country, that is the unfortunate reality of getting it to where it is today. Now, as we become more stable than ever before, we look to take the next steps
yep! at this point its all about money the league and its investor they don't care about no Rel and Promo, they just see one thing and that money.. I use to like MLS in the early 2000s but I when see the league let adidas the only kit supply that was kinda it for me.. I dont watch the game anymore I just look their highlight some time.. MLS is water down at this point in my option...
@@ballakick9080 If the company that makes the kits for the league is your sticking point to enjoying it or not...you might want to consider what your real priorities are
What problem? We have a thriving first division that has achieved parity with the best league in our region. Every team has academies, and the players continue to get better. Not to mention how impractical pro/rel would be in this country. No offense, but I feel like a lot of the pro/rel zealots just keep parroting the same talking points from 20 years ago. You can no longer say you can't have a competitive soccer league without pro/rel. As an American, I thought that would be obvious considering none of our sports leagues have pro/rel, and they are all doing very well without it.
If the MLS was less preoccupied with killing the USL and more concerned about half of their teams putting out a mediocre product, they wouldn’t have to worry about the “euro snobs”, casuals, or the die-hard Liga MX fans not watching. Raise the salary cap and incentivize the owners to reach into their pockets. Inter Miami, LAFC, NYCFC, etc. would splash the cash if they could. Loosen the restrictions and get the John Fisher type owners of the MLS to put some skin in the game or move on. League has a massive opportunity to grow in the coming years, let’s see if they take advantage of it.
@@davepazz580 The avg. TV audience of Liga MX and Premier League matches combined quadruples the avg. MLS game. MLS is third option in their own country (excl. Canada). It is a massive headache for the league in 2033 when streaming/tv negotiations start again if they can't make a dent in those numbers.
I agree about streaming, but the truth is MLS knows it will never be able to compete with the Mexican league and Euro leagues TV numbers... If you're living in the U.S. but you love Liverpool or Real Madrid, then you have no choice *but* to watch the games on a screen somehow unless you can somehow keep flying to Europe all the time (same with the Mexican league clubs and traveling there)... so of course those TV viewer numbers by necessity will be higher than any MLS games. What MLS proposed to instead do is attract a different type of fanbase... one that's just glad to watch some form of top league soccer on a regular basis within their own city, to watch the games in person and get *that* experience first-hand. If MLS had instead tried to cater directly and exclusively to the "Eurosob" fans, it would *never* get anywhere with that because they will always keep directly comparing the quality and keep complaining how "bad" it is compared to Euro league big clubs. Not a winning strategy when you're trying to get the league off the ground... MLS produces an entertaining product for local fans who don't particularly worry it's not up to the "big 5" world leagues with superstar players... MLS targets the more "general" US sports fan who gets a version of the game in-line with how the other US sports leagues operate.
@@davepazz580 That's fair and I agree with some of your points. The MLS will never go toe-to-toe with the Premier League financially or competitively, but I believe they can bridge the gap with other leagues if teams are able to invest. The MLS isn't trying to get off the ground anymore, they will have 30 teams soon and the financial backing of some of the richest people in sports. It is a necessity that they increase their audience not from a match day perspective, but via TV viewership. Revenue from TV/streaming dwarfs match day income for any major league around the world. They have a window of opportunity with Messi to capitalize on fans not only in the US, but around the world. In my opinion, they have a mediocre product for a niche sports fan here domestically. The general US sports fan could care less about the MLS. I live in a city with an MLS team and there are no other professional sports teams here. I'm shocked by the amount of people I meet who are either apathetic to the team or don't even know they exist. I like the MLS and want it to succeed long-term. It's perfectly fine to support the MLS, but I also think it is important to give critiques and not be "glad" just to have a team. We as fans give our money to the league and they in turn need to invest that to keep our collective interest. It's not a hard ask, the money and will from most owners is there. Don Garber needs to take off the guardrails to let this league thrive.
Yea I think if we ever want to get to that point where other countries are, with how much money is all invested, it has to be inside a closed, controleld environment. I just hope MLS looks to include the existing leagues already (or offers it to them and give them the option to turn it down) instead of a hostile takeover type of feeling.
Hostile takeover? Garber is killing off competing clubs/leagues. Look at San Diego Loyal for proof. How many more do we need? Since the creation of MLS, over 150 clubs have died. The knife is in Garber's hand--connect the dots.
Right from the beginning the talk about MLS plan of action is way off. MLS is NOT even trying to attract the casual fan or the person who is not familiar with MLS. Ask young people on the street even young people currently playing soccer and most don't know MLS or only know Messi plays in MLS. They have never seen one game, even on TV they have almost little to no interest in MLS. When Messi leaves or retires its going to be a rude awaking for both MLS and to a lesser extent Apples deal with MLS. I personally have been a fan of MLS since its inception, but this year haven't caught even one game. I didn't renew my Apple subscription after last year and I don't think I will this season. Getting back to the original point attracting the casual fan is only done by increasing the access to the games. In seasons past I could watch at least a couple games on free over the air TV sometimes even three games in a week. Now that number I believe is one and most of the time I am pretty sure that game will be Miami as it was yesterday. That isn't enough access and its also not nearly advertised enough or consistent enough to matter. I personally didn't even know it was on until I was trying to figure out some signal issues I was having. Consistency is key I know Saturday at 9am I can turn on an EPL game and at 9:01am kick off will have happened. MLS sometimes has games that say they start at 4pm and are nationally televised and at 4:15 there are commercials and the game hasn't even started. Even the NFL has learned a long time ago if you say the game starts at 1pm kick off at 1pm. As far as the pyramid goes it isn't just a good idea its inevitable if MLS wants to continue growing. There are too many teams and expansion is continuing. Another opportunity would be splitting to an east or west again but even then there should be promotion and relegation. MLS shouldn't allow legacy owners that refuse to invest to ride the wave of Messi profits. If you stop investing and keep sucking you should be kicked out of the league. When you watch a late season MLS game with even one team that won't make playoffs its played at a walking pace.
MLS has *already* built its base on "casual" sports fans and has been doing so for many years... looking back since the league started, it was the right long-term decision.
I wouldn't mind if MLS took over everything just as long as they have a proper Pyramid with promotion relegation. I don't want the lower leagues to be a minor league that are affiliated with the top tier teams For the sole purpose of bringing players up to the top tear instead of full teams up.
So far, there is only one of those leagues exists like that (MLSNP). I believe all levels of USL are completely independent of MLS, outside of if they loan a player or sell a player. MLS has the power and resources to do bring it all together. As long as they do it in an effort to give all the existing leagues a chance to jump on board, then I'm ok with it. If it is a hostile takeover, I'm less ok with it
As a supporter of Barcelona, Chelsea, and Borussia Dortmund, the only thing keeping me from being 100% engaged in MLS is the lack of pro/rel. The same teams every year in/year out is boring af😴
"This is America. That's not how it works." Why would we reward MLS when there are no MLS players on the current Nats team? This is why USSF needs to have a spine. Until they find one, MLS will just run roughshod over the sport in this country. USSF owes us a soccer pyramid but they can't be bothered. "MLS will grow their own pyramid"....and MLS will still fail to develop youth players, top prospects will still be running away to Europe to develop instead of becoming MLS serfs. And until our country learns how develop youth talent we will never win a World Cup.
Miles Robinson is the exception that proves the rule. Garber: "you gotta throw me a bone here, Beerholder. I can't have zero MLS players on the roster, my sphincter just puckers thinking about it. Make it so."
@@r2dad282 Well, the best American players are going to to play in the best leagues. MLS isn't a top league yet but many USMNT players have played in MLS or came up through MLS academies but have moved on to better leagues (despite you stating otherwise). I'm afraid every point you have made is factually incorrect but, please, feel your feelings
Q: how many San Diego Loyal fans want to support MLS, after Garber killed off their club? Multiply that by the 150+ clubs that have died since MLS came into existence, and you'll start to understand why ML:S is the Borg not some great savior of the sport.
@@r2dad282 It can't be too many. If it were a large number of people, those clubs wouldn't be dying. If those clubs are dying it's because the fans are choosing to leave, so those fans are now being fulfilled by MLS teams now.
There is nothing to fear from an all MLS soccer pyramid because MLS does not believe in a soccer pyramid. It don’t understand the concept of divisions and it’s importance. Basically, MLS is being run by a group of billionaire that don’t even like the sport, understand the sport, nor understand what it takes to make a good league. It’s functions is not to improve US Soccer. MLS’s main goal for the lower division is to form leagues with reserve clubs in various cities without an MLS team and dressing it up as an independent team. It’s like my local hockey team all over again. It’s in the lower division and it’s only purpose is to give playing time to the up and comers for an NHL franchise within another state. That type of nonsense is why I stopped supporting American sports.
Not likely in the near future. But if MLS expands to a point where it can do its own quasi pyramid, it wouldnt shock me if they follow the method we outlined in the clip. Jump on board or good luck on your own
Right, look this is how I would do it if have my way, you MLS, MLS2,and USL, if and the USL top 2 finisher move up to MLS2, now MLS2 top 3 finisher Up MLS, and MLS team can only go down to MLS2 .. that what they suppose to do, but as we know MLS is all about money and its investor .. so therefore you want have nothing like I mention ..
I don't care about billionaires investors and their ROI--why does anyone else? MLS is about slowly, painfully, strangling any non-MLS league or club until they own the entire sport in this country. USSF is facilitating it because they want MLS money to go play with the Nats teams and that's it. Our country deserves better.
![Lil Uzi Vert - We Good [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DrSfBULAsek/mqdefault.jpg)
Promotion/relegation is NEEDED. The problem from the start is that we saw it as a business before we saw it as a sport.
When starting up as the 5th most important sport in your own country, that is the unfortunate reality of getting it to where it is today. Now, as we become more stable than ever before, we look to take the next steps
yep! at this point its all about money the league and its investor they don't care about no Rel and Promo, they just see one thing and that money.. I use to like MLS in the early 2000s but I when see the league let adidas the only kit supply that was kinda it for me.. I dont watch the game anymore I just look their highlight some time.. MLS is water down at this point in my option...
@@ballakick9080 If the company that makes the kits for the league is your sticking point to enjoying it or not...you might want to consider what your real priorities are
What problem? We have a thriving first division that has achieved parity with the best league in our region. Every team has academies, and the players continue to get better. Not to mention how impractical pro/rel would be in this country. No offense, but I feel like a lot of the pro/rel zealots just keep parroting the same talking points from 20 years ago. You can no longer say you can't have a competitive soccer league without pro/rel. As an American, I thought that would be obvious considering none of our sports leagues have pro/rel, and they are all doing very well without it.
@@stevenygabbyperez695 👏👏👏
If the MLS was less preoccupied with killing the USL and more concerned about half of their teams putting out a mediocre product, they wouldn’t have to worry about the “euro snobs”, casuals, or the die-hard Liga MX fans not watching. Raise the salary cap and incentivize the owners to reach into their pockets. Inter Miami, LAFC, NYCFC, etc. would splash the cash if they could. Loosen the restrictions and get the John Fisher type owners of the MLS to put some skin in the game or move on. League has a massive opportunity to grow in the coming years, let’s see if they take advantage of it.
#FisherOut
Who said they were "worried" about those fans?
@@davepazz580 The avg. TV audience of Liga MX and Premier League matches combined quadruples the avg. MLS game. MLS is third option in their own country (excl. Canada). It is a massive headache for the league in 2033 when streaming/tv negotiations start again if they can't make a dent in those numbers.
I agree about streaming, but the truth is MLS knows it will never be able to compete with the Mexican league and Euro leagues TV numbers...
If you're living in the U.S. but you love Liverpool or Real Madrid, then you have no choice *but* to watch the games on a screen somehow unless you can somehow keep flying to Europe all the time (same with the Mexican league clubs and traveling there)... so of course those TV viewer numbers by necessity will be higher than any MLS games.
What MLS proposed to instead do is attract a different type of fanbase... one that's just glad to watch some form of top league soccer on a regular basis within their own city, to watch the games in person and get *that* experience first-hand.
If MLS had instead tried to cater directly and exclusively to the "Eurosob" fans, it would *never* get anywhere with that because they will always keep directly comparing the quality and keep complaining how "bad" it is compared to Euro league big clubs.
Not a winning strategy when you're trying to get the league off the ground...
MLS produces an entertaining product for local fans who don't particularly worry it's not up to the "big 5" world leagues with superstar players... MLS targets the more "general" US sports fan who gets a version of the game in-line with how the other US sports leagues operate.
@@davepazz580 That's fair and I agree with some of your points. The MLS will never go toe-to-toe with the Premier League financially or competitively, but I believe they can bridge the gap with other leagues if teams are able to invest.
The MLS isn't trying to get off the ground anymore, they will have 30 teams soon and the financial backing of some of the richest people in sports. It is a necessity that they increase their audience not from a match day perspective, but via TV viewership. Revenue from TV/streaming dwarfs match day income for any major league around the world.
They have a window of opportunity with Messi to capitalize on fans not only in the US, but around the world. In my opinion, they have a mediocre product for a niche sports fan here domestically. The general US sports fan could care less about the MLS. I live in a city with an MLS team and there are no other professional sports teams here. I'm shocked by the amount of people I meet who are either apathetic to the team or don't even know they exist.
I like the MLS and want it to succeed long-term. It's perfectly fine to support the MLS, but I also think it is important to give critiques and not be "glad" just to have a team. We as fans give our money to the league and they in turn need to invest that to keep our collective interest. It's not a hard ask, the money and will from most owners is there. Don Garber needs to take off the guardrails to let this league thrive.
I disagree. Love the pyramid idea. As long as they include promotion and relegation within a pyramid
Yea I think if we ever want to get to that point where other countries are, with how much money is all invested, it has to be inside a closed, controleld environment. I just hope MLS looks to include the existing leagues already (or offers it to them and give them the option to turn it down) instead of a hostile takeover type of feeling.
Hostile takeover? Garber is killing off competing clubs/leagues. Look at San Diego Loyal for proof. How many more do we need? Since the creation of MLS, over 150 clubs have died. The knife is in Garber's hand--connect the dots.
Right from the beginning the talk about MLS plan of action is way off. MLS is NOT even trying to attract the casual fan or the person who is not familiar with MLS. Ask young people on the street even young people currently playing soccer and most don't know MLS or only know Messi plays in MLS. They have never seen one game, even on TV they have almost little to no interest in MLS. When Messi leaves or retires its going to be a rude awaking for both MLS and to a lesser extent Apples deal with MLS. I personally have been a fan of MLS since its inception, but this year haven't caught even one game. I didn't renew my Apple subscription after last year and I don't think I will this season. Getting back to the original point attracting the casual fan is only done by increasing the access to the games. In seasons past I could watch at least a couple games on free over the air TV sometimes even three games in a week. Now that number I believe is one and most of the time I am pretty sure that game will be Miami as it was yesterday. That isn't enough access and its also not nearly advertised enough or consistent enough to matter. I personally didn't even know it was on until I was trying to figure out some signal issues I was having. Consistency is key I know Saturday at 9am I can turn on an EPL game and at 9:01am kick off will have happened. MLS sometimes has games that say they start at 4pm and are nationally televised and at 4:15 there are commercials and the game hasn't even started. Even the NFL has learned a long time ago if you say the game starts at 1pm kick off at 1pm.
As far as the pyramid goes it isn't just a good idea its inevitable if MLS wants to continue growing. There are too many teams and expansion is continuing. Another opportunity would be splitting to an east or west again but even then there should be promotion and relegation. MLS shouldn't allow legacy owners that refuse to invest to ride the wave of Messi profits. If you stop investing and keep sucking you should be kicked out of the league. When you watch a late season MLS game with even one team that won't make playoffs its played at a walking pace.
MLS has *already* built its base on "casual" sports fans and has been doing so for many years... looking back since the league started, it was the right long-term decision.
Relevence and attention of general sports fans is only possible if the soccer first passionate fans endorse it.
I wouldn't mind if MLS took over everything just as long as they have a proper Pyramid with promotion relegation.
I don't want the lower leagues to be a minor league that are affiliated with the top tier teams For the sole purpose of bringing players up to the top tear instead of full teams up.
So far, there is only one of those leagues exists like that (MLSNP). I believe all levels of USL are completely independent of MLS, outside of if they loan a player or sell a player. MLS has the power and resources to do bring it all together. As long as they do it in an effort to give all the existing leagues a chance to jump on board, then I'm ok with it. If it is a hostile takeover, I'm less ok with it
@@thedesignatedplayerspodcastMLS is a monopolist #HostileTakeover
Garber is NOT A SOCCER GUY.
Dictator don his way or no way
He is a bussines guy. Just that!
He’s a monopolist
Good that he's not... otherwise the league would have folded long, long ago.
He grew a sport and a league that was going to fold in 2003. All Praise Don Garber...
As a supporter of Barcelona, Chelsea, and Borussia Dortmund, the only thing keeping me from being 100% engaged in MLS is the lack of pro/rel. The same teams every year in/year out is boring af😴
LOL. You are the definition of a plastic fan.
I think it's boring to only have 5 teams able to win the Premier League. So there. Just excuses.
@@sudano9958 Then don't watch it. Simple as that. You don't have to whine about it
@@BlaugranaCuler79 You make no sense. Pro-Rel helps keep the same teams at the top.
@@davidday2373 smell teams? Ok🤣
"This is America. That's not how it works." Why would we reward MLS when there are no MLS players on the current Nats team? This is why USSF needs to have a spine. Until they find one, MLS will just run roughshod over the sport in this country. USSF owes us a soccer pyramid but they can't be bothered. "MLS will grow their own pyramid"....and MLS will still fail to develop youth players, top prospects will still be running away to Europe to develop instead of becoming MLS serfs. And until our country learns how develop youth talent we will never win a World Cup.
Miles Robinson doesn't exist. Also, what's with all the former MLS players on the roster? I thought they were suppose to be serfs.
Miles Robinson is the exception that proves the rule. Garber: "you gotta throw me a bone here, Beerholder. I can't have zero MLS players on the roster, my sphincter just puckers thinking about it. Make it so."
@@r2dad282 Well, the best American players are going to to play in the best leagues. MLS isn't a top league yet but many USMNT players have played in MLS or came up through MLS academies but have moved on to better leagues (despite you stating otherwise). I'm afraid every point you have made is factually incorrect but, please, feel your feelings
Q: how many San Diego Loyal fans want to support MLS, after Garber killed off their club? Multiply that by the 150+ clubs that have died since MLS came into existence, and you'll start to understand why ML:S is the Borg not some great savior of the sport.
@@r2dad282 It can't be too many. If it were a large number of people, those clubs wouldn't be dying. If those clubs are dying it's because the fans are choosing to leave, so those fans are now being fulfilled by MLS teams now.
There is nothing to fear from an all MLS soccer pyramid because MLS does not believe in a soccer pyramid. It don’t understand the concept of divisions and it’s importance. Basically, MLS is being run by a group of billionaire that don’t even like the sport, understand the sport, nor understand what it takes to make a good league. It’s functions is not to improve US Soccer. MLS’s main goal for the lower division is to form leagues with reserve clubs in various cities without an MLS team and dressing it up as an independent team. It’s like my local hockey team all over again. It’s in the lower division and it’s only purpose is to give playing time to the up and comers for an NHL franchise within another state. That type of nonsense is why I stopped supporting American sports.
What does a MLS and USL merger look like?
Not likely in the near future. But if MLS expands to a point where it can do its own quasi pyramid, it wouldnt shock me if they follow the method we outlined in the clip. Jump on board or good luck on your own
Right, look this is how I would do it if have my way, you MLS, MLS2,and USL, if and the USL top 2 finisher move up to MLS2, now MLS2 top 3 finisher Up MLS, and MLS team can only go down to MLS2 .. that what they suppose to do, but as we know MLS is all about money and its investor .. so therefore you want have nothing like I mention ..
I don't care about billionaires investors and their ROI--why does anyone else? MLS is about slowly, painfully, strangling any non-MLS league or club until they own the entire sport in this country. USSF is facilitating it because they want MLS money to go play with the Nats teams and that's it. Our country deserves better.