woah !! that was amazing !! not very often do we have an opportunity to see such an elaborate ham setup in operation... pse thank him for the demo. your group had some really interesting equipment in operation. Nice! 73 de N4BRM. SW FL
Hey Bruce, and thanks for your nice comments. Our group seems to have caught some strange disease and is trying all sorts of ham radio alternatives lately. The good news is there is no cure....
Great video of the K4WOF Sat Station. Nicely done, Jerry! Very nicely done! Thanks for the great video! I've shared it on Twitter and on a few ham radio Facebook groups. 73 de Robert K3RRR
K3RRR glad to hear someone you knows the difference between film and video. I get tired of hearing knowledgeable people keep saying I filmed this I filmed that, you didn't "film" anything!
Much obliged for all the interest, compliments and questions! Answers forthcoming in a very few days... soon as I tackle this present task :-p 73 Jerry K4WOF
Hi Paul. Hard to explain in a few words but my version of WRAPS can get itself tangled around its axle. The control station was 75 feet from the tracker, and I needed a way to shut it down if it started going out of whack. You will see a master switch (alongside a "tumble" polarity switch) below the radio stack, and that kept me out of trouble. 73
Hello Duane. Maybe the lotto ticket not needed to play this. Many radio combos should be fine if you want to work the SSB sats. If not SSB, how about FM and just a handheld (ideally full duplex). The 7000s were a bit much but they happened to be on hand for other uses. 73 Jerry K4WOF
J Lineback : where to find the freqs on up & downloading no area hams told me 436-438 MHz and 145mhz but no other info is there a good website on fm ht freq time listings I have no tracking equipment how to get my foot in the door simply. .. I have many hts vhf UHF thanks for any info
Duane, it sounds like AMSAT may not discovered you quite yet! See amsat.org (North America) and amsat.uk.org. You will find frequencies and much other info on all satellites. The Education tab is a great read and, if affordable, a little contribution is possible to those hard-working guys. BTW, you'll also find some useful commentary on how frequencies shift during sat passes due to doppler effect. Note links to WRAPS, too, including Mark's original and updated QSL articles. And this is where the WRAPS PCB and amp may be procured.
I am working on this in this quarantine, and just came across this video. Nice work man! I was wondering how did you take live data of azimuth and elevation and what controller did you use to control the motion of the motors. Doe sit need internet or does it have its own built in database?
Hello Vivek: The controlling software is called SATPC32, and is available from its author www.dk1tb.de/indexeng.htm, or from AMSAT.org. This software can download Keplerian data from several sources such as NASA. Good luck and keep well.
Nice setup! Second the question on the tripods, most of the tripods I've seen have been a bit flimsier than I'd like to use here in tornadoville, Tx and Oklahoma...
Thanks Donald. Affirmative on your idea and there is a RUclips video of someone doing this. I am not up to speed on whether and how popular tracking software can be interfaced with AZ/EL telescope mounts. Maybe someone out there knows.
Could you make a shed with a big plastic dome on the roof to house that? For people with HOA's, that may hide the antennas. Run all your cables through buried conduit?
Thank you for the compliment. The tracker printed circuit board and plans are available from AMSAT.org. There you will also find a completely assembled preamp which contains an RF switch for toggling back and forth between two antennae mounted 90 degrees to each other. Following this, you will need to figure out your radio setup... will it be two radios as I used, one for up- and the other downlink; or some full duplex radio that can do both? My radio choice was driven by what I already owned, but you can use many other choices equally effectively. Good luck!
Sir, I am sorry I left out so much helpful info. Following will be two links. The first one is for the original tracker plan by Mark Spencer. It was designed for one antenna. The link for that version is here and then I will add Mark's "tricked-out" WRAPS which shows how to build a dual-antenna tracker to deal with satellite tumbling. Single antenna tracker by Mark Spencer: ukamsat.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/wraps-mark-spencer-wa8sme-qst-jan-2014-copyright-arrl.pdf
Here is link for the dual antenna version of the tracker, called "Tricked-out Wraps", again courtesy Mark Spencer and AMSAT: www.amsat.org/wordpress/xtra/WRAPSArticlewithStoreAd.pdf
He did a great job putting this satellite setup together, excellent video too.. I wonder if his custom unit was less expensive than a Yaesu or other commercial AZ/EL unit with controller?
Good and big question. If one counts his time at maybe ten cents an hour, the commercial products are probably cheaper... but nowhere near as educational. Main diff is that the Yaesu for example may be left out in the weather, with bigger antennas. The WRAPS or Tricked-out WRAPS were meant for learning, portable use and satisfaction building something with one's own hands.. BTW, it may be useful to check power requirements for the big iron - most likely AC not DC.
I like building things, so it looks like it would be a fun project... I guess each method has it's pros, and the commercial units are great for almost plug and play and the ruggedness... 73 Ed N1UHF
The tracker tripod is from an older Bausch & Lomb telescope and shows model # 68 4000. The 'scope was attached via a mounting pad with a 1/4" stud like a camera mount. This pad has been fitted to the 4" tracker cube, and this means the entire tracker may be detached from the tripod in a second of time with the flick of one lever. There is a sort-of slot on the tripod's neck which was handy to mount a fabricated aluminum channel for supporting the preamp and coax connectors. There must be many such tripods. The camera tripod used at field day is a standard Buddipole, with a PVC T plus a plastic wall plate attached by zip tie.
just curious. to the right of the laptop on the table there was what looked to be a compass. but jerry was manipulating it as you would a PC mouse. what the heck was that ? can you give the make and model ? Tnx, 73 K4WWD
Richard: Unfortunately the printed circuit board for this design is no longer available, and AMSAT advises there is no plan to produce again. However, there is an equal, and you may think improved, design here clearskyinstitute.com/ham/AST/Downey.pdf
Eric is correct. Maybe way too much radio for this, but they were in the shack so handy. These radios, and some others, are easily steered from SATPC32.
Most of us already have a 2m/440 handheld we could use for satellite work, so the hitch is often the cost of a dual-band beam. You might look into how well this inexpensive ($16 + shipping) 16-element log periodic HD-TV antenna works as a 2m/440 satellite antenna, either as is or with a bit of snipping of the elements to tune it more precisely. www.mtcradio.com/hdtv-outdoor-antenna-vhf-uhf-16-element-hi-gain-log-periodic-design/ --Mike Perry, WA4MP
Thank you, and do it O.M.! There are many ways. You will be very gratified with yourself, even though contacts are less frequent than other modes. The build and the hunt are the fun!
2:16 "Based on information that you download from NASA." I find it unlikely the TLEs used came from NASA. RIP the Goddard Space Center orbital elements... Reagan killed those off in the early 80s before launching the SDI. Orbital elements (TLEs) are now mostly from NORAD at spacetrack.org (which has a really bad user agreement backed by federal regulations that prevents users from sharing data) or celestrak, which runs a parallel service propped up by Dr. T.S. Kelso as a non business venture which provides the exact same data to the public without such a user agreement by special permission from the secretary as required by law. I believe AMSAT also maintains some of their own TLEs and NASA sometimes publishes some TLEs in articles when they get special permission, but the default resource for up to date information is Celestrak for most programs such as gpredict, SATPC32, orbitron, WXtrack, etc. TLEs (orbital elements) are so weird in that they're tightly controlled and also public information, and it depends where they come from whether you can share them or not. See seesat-l and the celestrak email chain archive with NORAD for more; interesting drama to say the least...
You are correct Spiros - it does run into a bit of money, but not nearly as much as commercial rotors. It's a great experience to build it and all that but, hey, we can get on the sats with a handheld Yagi and HT, or even a duckie. Thanks for your comment. 73 Jerry K4WOF.
Michael - I did not kept tabs, but think about USD125 for materials and components for just the tracker assembly - PCB, electronic components, motors, gears, structural bits. I am there excluding the Arrow antennae, tripods, coax, battery, camera and the radios.
Great job and great video. I have also confronted the cost issue and experience has shown that the cost depends on the finished product you wish to achieve. Don't mean to steal his thunder, but after a lot of reading and a little elbow grease I have built nice Yagis for under $5 each, and also created an Arduino Pro Mini ($20) based AZ/EL rotor controller using inexpensive RC servos ($40 each) - just Google "K6VUG Rotator" for more info and firmware code. Anyway, this was built for Field Day and is definitely NOT weather proof ! Having done all this I found that there are a range of options to choose - from handheld setup (under $10), to tripod mounted handheld setup (for $15 & existing camera tripod) to AZ rotor only setup using old TV antenna rotor, to a completely automated AZ/EL setup like this one. For the FM repeater sats aka "easy sats" I prefer the lower end inexpensive handheld configurations, whereas the more challenging "transponder sats" benefit from a fully automated setup to help focus on making contacts, rather than trying to grow 4 hands ! So it is up to you, whether you wants to have some casual fun with FM satellites or need a "true" amateur ground station - you decide. Plus now I know what I can pack in back of the car or in a small Fedex tube for taking on vacations or long trips. On the flip side I'm now trying hard to create a weather-proof solution to mount on top my home so I work from the comfort of the shack... trust me, once you have made a satellite contact, you will be hooked for ever ! Again thanks for sharing a wonderful presentation of a project executed very professionally !! Best Regards, K6VUG
Umesh, Very thoughtful comments, and you are so right about the many different ways to hunt satellites. FM or SSB; available radios; portability; weather resistant; manual or automated; desired budget... and so forth. The good news is, they are all immensely enjoyable and educational. Good job on your ideas, and the nice comparisons of numerous methods... 73, Jerry K4WOF
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Can't believe I didn't meet more people in the military that were into this hobby. I'm playing catch up now. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your visit, and way more so your service Charles. j.
woah !! that was amazing !! not very often do we have an opportunity to see such an elaborate ham setup in operation... pse thank him for the demo. your group had some really interesting equipment in operation. Nice! 73 de N4BRM. SW FL
Hey Bruce, and thanks for your nice comments. Our group seems to have caught some strange disease and is trying all sorts of ham radio alternatives lately. The good news is there is no cure....
Bruce, I appreciate your reply. All the best... j. K4WOF
Great video of the K4WOF Sat Station. Nicely done, Jerry! Very nicely done! Thanks for the great video! I've shared it on Twitter and on a few ham radio Facebook groups. 73 de Robert K3RRR
K3RRR glad to hear someone you knows the difference between film and video. I get tired of hearing knowledgeable people keep saying I filmed this I filmed that, you didn't "film" anything!
I have the same pet peeve, Greg…I'm amazed how many network newscasters still make the same mistake…
K3RRR thanks for the nice video though!
Much obliged for all the interest, compliments and questions! Answers forthcoming in a very few days... soon as I tackle this present task :-p 73 Jerry K4WOF
What the heck! So cool it uses both antenna masts as the opposing freqs are concurrently polarized. inspiring design :)
WOW! That is so cool! I like the fact he setup remote viewing for it also!
Hi Paul. Hard to explain in a few words but my version of WRAPS can get itself tangled around its axle. The control station was 75 feet from the tracker, and I needed a way to shut it down if it started going out of whack. You will see a master switch (alongside a "tumble" polarity switch) below the radio stack, and that kept me out of trouble. 73
Any updates on the SAT rotor controller and etc. if they are going to build it and sell it to the customers?
Great video! I am just in aww! Now I have a new project!!!!
Do it OM... K4WOF
Fraaking Awesome Jerry So say we all
Regrets for late reply. Thanks much Glenn!
Great presentation giving all insight to this mode.
I"ll scratch a lotto ticket tomorrow I need two IC-7000's cool ..
Hello Duane. Maybe the lotto ticket not needed to play this. Many radio combos should be fine if you want to work the SSB sats. If not SSB, how about FM and just a handheld (ideally full duplex). The 7000s were a bit much but they happened to be on hand for other uses. 73 Jerry K4WOF
J Lineback : where to find the freqs on up & downloading no area hams told me 436-438 MHz and 145mhz but no other info is there a good website on fm ht freq time listings I have no tracking equipment how to get my foot in the door simply. .. I have many hts vhf UHF thanks for any info
Duane, it sounds like AMSAT may not discovered you quite yet! See amsat.org (North America) and amsat.uk.org. You will find frequencies and much other info on all satellites. The Education tab is a great read and, if affordable, a little contribution is possible to those hard-working guys. BTW, you'll also find some useful commentary on how frequencies shift during sat passes due to doppler effect. Note links to WRAPS, too, including Mark's original and updated QSL articles. And this is where the WRAPS PCB and amp may be procured.
Hi Duane. Those radios were just what I had. SatPC32 can control others. Check it out, and maybe you have what you need.
I am working on this in this quarantine, and just came across this video. Nice work man!
I was wondering how did you take live data of azimuth and elevation and what controller did you use to control the motion of the motors. Doe sit need internet or does it have its own built in database?
Hello Vivek: The controlling software is called SATPC32, and is available from its author www.dk1tb.de/indexeng.htm, or from AMSAT.org. This software can download Keplerian data from several sources such as NASA. Good luck and keep well.
good informative video,setup is made with lot of dedication,keep it up...love from India.
Thank you!
Thanks for your super nice comment.... Jerry K4WOF
Great to receive you very nice comments from so far away! j.
Can't find the schematics... on the amsat store / shop, not so much...
Nice setup.
Thank you David. Regrets late response to you nice note...
Nice setup! Second the question on the tripods, most of the tripods I've seen have been a bit flimsier than I'd like to use here in tornadoville, Tx and Oklahoma...
Rodney, thanks to you! Please see tripod answer below and I suggest you keep in mind this setup is not meant for permanent outdoors installation. 73.
very cool set up
Thank you Tony!
Hi Eric,
Nice tracking system. I wonder if an amateur astronomy Alt/Az telescope mount has been adapted for amateur radio satellite use. 73 WB3BJU
Thanks Donald. Affirmative on your idea and there is a RUclips video of someone doing this. I am not up to speed on whether and how popular tracking software can be interfaced with AZ/EL telescope mounts. Maybe someone out there knows.
Which material used as element ? That violet one rod,talking about
The elements are made of aluminum arrow shaft.
Wow what a nice set up. Please tell him thank you for the demo.
73's DE: Dave N6PGG / 7
What brand of radio rack is that holding his radios on his desk?
tac-comm.com
Done a lot of this myself . Love the call . 73 N2WOF
Wof O.M. ! Thnx and 73.... j.
Could you make a shed with a big plastic dome on the roof to house that? For people with HOA's, that may hide the antennas. Run all your cables through buried conduit?
NICE SETUP
Hey great setup !
Can you please share the design plan of the setup so that I could build it too !
Thank you for the compliment. The tracker printed circuit board and plans are available from AMSAT.org. There you will also find a completely assembled preamp which contains an RF switch for toggling back and forth between two antennae mounted 90 degrees to each other. Following this, you will need to figure out your radio setup... will it be two radios as I used, one for up- and the other downlink; or some full duplex radio that can do both? My radio choice was driven by what I already owned, but you can use many other choices equally effectively. Good luck!
Sir, I am sorry I left out so much helpful info. Following will be two links. The first one is for the original tracker plan by Mark Spencer. It was designed for one antenna. The link for that version is here and then I will add Mark's "tricked-out" WRAPS which shows how to build a dual-antenna tracker to deal with satellite tumbling. Single antenna tracker by Mark Spencer: ukamsat.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/wraps-mark-spencer-wa8sme-qst-jan-2014-copyright-arrl.pdf
Thanks alot for the info !
Here is link for the dual antenna version of the tracker, called "Tricked-out Wraps", again courtesy Mark Spencer and AMSAT: www.amsat.org/wordpress/xtra/WRAPSArticlewithStoreAd.pdf
As reminder, AMSAT organizations and their websites in UK and USA have a wealth of information on satellite tracking and general education!
"Alien fone" Lol
He did a great job putting this satellite setup together, excellent video too.. I wonder if his custom unit was less expensive than a Yaesu or other commercial AZ/EL unit with controller?
Good and big question. If one counts his time at maybe ten cents an hour, the commercial products are probably cheaper... but nowhere near as educational. Main diff is that the Yaesu for example may be left out in the weather, with bigger antennas. The WRAPS or Tricked-out WRAPS were meant for learning, portable use and satisfaction building something with one's own hands.. BTW, it may be useful to check power requirements for the big iron - most likely AC not DC.
I like building things, so it looks like it would be a fun project... I guess each method has it's pros, and the commercial units are great for almost plug and play and the ruggedness... 73 Ed N1UHF
where did you get the try pod stand?
Anthony Capino I'll have to ask him
The tracker tripod is from an older Bausch & Lomb telescope and shows model # 68 4000. The 'scope was attached via a mounting pad with a 1/4" stud like a camera mount. This pad has been fitted to the 4" tracker cube, and this means the entire tracker may be detached from the tripod in a second of time with the flick of one lever. There is a sort-of slot on the tripod's neck which was handy to mount a fabricated aluminum channel for supporting the preamp and coax connectors. There must be many such tripods. The camera tripod used at field day is a standard Buddipole, with a PVC T plus a plastic wall plate attached by zip tie.
3:58 Alien Fone :D you need that with a big sign under the antenna :D ohhh the bypassers :D
Greetings Todor. Pick up lots of Aliens, I think, but can't prove it! 73.
J Lineback I mean the people that pass wiil be like "whaaaaaa....tt" if its in bigger letters :D space phone will be a good name too
OK, I must have been in a fog! Now I understand :)) 73
J Lineback 3:58
wow this is awesome!
just curious. to the right of the laptop on the table there was what looked to be a compass. but jerry was manipulating it as you would a PC mouse. what the heck was that ? can you give the make and model ? Tnx, 73 K4WWD
I think he was talking and playing with it, not using it like a mouse HAHA
Eric is exactly correct. The compass is used to set up the tracker, and it was just lying there to fiddle with unconsciously. . Jerry K4WOF
Any find the plans online for this?
Richard: Unfortunately the printed circuit board for this design is no longer available, and AMSAT advises there is no plan to produce again. However, there is an equal, and you may think improved, design here clearskyinstitute.com/ham/AST/Downey.pdf
@@jelineback I don't think this site is still active.
Fantastic job.
Thank you W4MPS! j.
what happens when your balloon busts or leaks? Show me the unit being launched and an actual picture
Which radios is he using?
2 Icom IC-7000
Eric is correct. Maybe way too much radio for this, but they were in the shack so handy. These radios, and some others, are easily steered from SATPC32.
J Lineback seems like some decent dual bander mobiles would be fine. But use what you got I guess.
Dual banders wont do SSB and CW for satellites.. Only FM
Most of us already have a 2m/440 handheld we could use for satellite work, so the hitch is often the cost of a dual-band beam. You might look into how well this inexpensive ($16 + shipping) 16-element log periodic HD-TV antenna works as a 2m/440 satellite antenna, either as is or with a bit of snipping of the elements to tune it more precisely. www.mtcradio.com/hdtv-outdoor-antenna-vhf-uhf-16-element-hi-gain-log-periodic-design/
--Mike Perry, WA4MP
That's very impressive! I'd love to build something like that.. 73 ke0mje
Thank you, and do it O.M.! There are many ways. You will be very gratified with yourself, even though contacts are less frequent than other modes. The build and the hunt are the fun!
qow that is surely impressive
Thanks to you Nikko. 73 Jerry K4WOF
Thanks Nikko.
You need a noise filter in the room with the computer and radios. Too much damn noise!
You are correct. It was dinner time Field Day, and a member decided to entertain the group at the same moment as this video was being shot. Oh well.
2:16 "Based on information that you download from NASA." I find it unlikely the TLEs used came from NASA. RIP the Goddard Space Center orbital elements... Reagan killed those off in the early 80s before launching the SDI. Orbital elements (TLEs) are now mostly from NORAD at spacetrack.org (which has a really bad user agreement backed by federal regulations that prevents users from sharing data) or celestrak, which runs a parallel service propped up by Dr. T.S. Kelso as a non business venture which provides the exact same data to the public without such a user agreement by special permission from the secretary as required by law. I believe AMSAT also maintains some of their own TLEs and NASA sometimes publishes some TLEs in articles when they get special permission, but the default resource for up to date information is Celestrak for most programs such as gpredict, SATPC32, orbitron, WXtrack, etc. TLEs (orbital elements) are so weird in that they're tightly controlled and also public information, and it depends where they come from whether you can share them or not. See seesat-l and the celestrak email chain archive with NORAD for more; interesting drama to say the least...
I don't want to build it. I want someone to build it for me and sell it to me.
Great setup, but expensive for my wallet...73 de sv2evs
You are correct Spiros - it does run into a bit of money, but not nearly as much as commercial rotors. It's a great experience to build it and all that but, hey, we can get on the sats with a handheld Yagi and HT, or even a duckie. Thanks for your comment. 73 Jerry K4WOF.
How much do you figure you have invested in the project for just the antenna array and controller? 73 de W2MFH
Michael - I did not kept tabs, but think about USD125 for materials and components for just the tracker assembly - PCB, electronic components, motors, gears, structural bits. I am there excluding the Arrow antennae, tripods, coax, battery, camera and the radios.
Great job and great video. I have also confronted the cost issue and experience has shown that the cost depends on the finished product you wish to achieve.
Don't mean to steal his thunder, but after a lot of reading and a little elbow grease I have built nice Yagis for under $5 each, and also created an Arduino Pro Mini ($20) based AZ/EL rotor controller using inexpensive RC servos ($40 each) - just Google "K6VUG Rotator" for more info and firmware code. Anyway, this was built for Field Day and is definitely NOT weather proof !
Having done all this I found that there are a range of options to choose - from handheld setup (under $10), to tripod mounted handheld setup (for $15 & existing camera tripod) to AZ rotor only setup using old TV antenna rotor, to a completely automated AZ/EL setup like this one.
For the FM repeater sats aka "easy sats" I prefer the lower end inexpensive handheld configurations, whereas the more challenging "transponder sats" benefit from a fully automated setup to help focus on making contacts, rather than trying to grow 4 hands !
So it is up to you, whether you wants to have some casual fun with FM satellites or need a "true" amateur ground station - you decide. Plus now I know what I can pack in back of the car or in a small Fedex tube for taking on vacations or long trips.
On the flip side I'm now trying hard to create a weather-proof solution to mount on top my home so I work from the comfort of the shack... trust me, once you have made a satellite contact, you will be hooked for ever !
Again thanks for sharing a wonderful presentation of a project executed very professionally !!
Best Regards,
K6VUG
Umesh,
Very thoughtful comments, and you are so right about the many different ways to hunt satellites. FM or SSB; available radios; portability; weather resistant; manual or automated; desired budget... and so forth. The good news is, they are all immensely enjoyable and educational. Good job on your ideas, and the nice comparisons of numerous methods... 73, Jerry K4WOF
Wonder what the, *'Flat Earth Society'* would have to say about all this satellite stuff? *lol* (2019) And a Flat Earth Society actually exist. :-(
MUST BE NICE BIG MONEY ITS ALL ABOUT MINE IS BIGGER