*Contents:* 0:00 - Intro 0:27 - Pattern Racking 1:52 - 2nd-Ball Break 3:23 - Ball Gap Effects 5:58 - Tight Rack 6:19 - Standard Power Break 7:33 - Wrap Up *Supporting Resources:* - 8-ball break resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/ - pattern racking resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/ - rules of pool: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/ - how to get a tight rack: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/ - “Dr. Dave 8-Ball RUN-OUTS and BREAK ADVICE” video: ruclips.net/video/eGAEfE71WPc/видео.html - “8-BALL 2nd-Ball Break Strategy ... How to POCKET THE 8 ON THE BREAK” video: ruclips.net/video/jR1C4VY4uKg/видео.html - “Best Pool BREAK SHOTS of All Time in 9-ball, 10-ball, and 8-ball”video: ruclips.net/video/6jYtFvOUzbk/видео.html *Subscribe to Dr. Dave's RUclips Channel:* ruclips.net/user/DrDaveBilliards
I shoot pool with some guys twice a week at the 55+ RV place I live. I hadn't pocketed the 8 ball on the break in 40 years. Just recently I pocketed the 8 ball on the break when it rocketed all the way up table into the left hand corner pocket. I was pretty happy about that. My very next break the 8 ball stopped about 1 centimeter from dropping in the side pocket. While that may be commonplace to a lot of people I thought it was pretty special to me.
I get it every 100 breaks .. but I do a de Luna style 9 ball break on the 8 rack and some times it goes reallllly badly some times I don’t suggest it just sharing something about my seld
I have been playing pool for the best part of 15 years and I still learn something new or new perspective on something I thought I knew every time I watch one of your videos. I wish I found you earlier, would have been a much better player. I'm also baffled at how you find the time and energy to reply to every single comment. You're truly a legend, sir!
@@DrDaveBilliards I spin the the two balls behind the eight and the ball in the middle of them on next row all at once if I'm racking for my opponent. If you do it right the opponent won't notice and the eight usually stays where it's at or close and the balls don't break out as well. Even with the rack tight.
@@dustincobb5718 Unless you are creating gaps, spinning the balls won't do much. Since the 8 tends to head up table with a tight rack, I can see how creating gaps (even tiny ones) behind the 8 might help it move less.
@@DrDaveBilliards I say your wrong it works atleast 70/80 percent of the time in tournaments I've been in and I've played a lot. It can't be just luck. I got no reason to lie or nothing to gain from it. Now it works better with the last row ball loose instead of spinning it but I don't do that. Because they always check my racks.
After watching your video on looking for the 8 ball gap in the rack I got an 8 on the break my 1st game of the night! I've only ever done it one other time in league play and now I have the ultimate cheat code to help get a win! Thank you for all the useful info. Hope to shoot a few more racks with you soon!
Well it is difficult to comprehend Honest Pool Players world not be people with integrity.😎 Thanks for the education Dr. Dave.👍 Another great educational video.♥️♥️♥️
I developed a hard inside English second ball break and got the 8 ball on the break (winning in my league) 4 times in a season (130 team games). If you look at the break at the beginning of this video the second ball break brought the 8 out almost into the side, if he'd used inside (right from the shooters perspective) the 8 likely would have gone in. The inside English also helps the cue ball stay inside and break up the rest of the rack out as well.
In my experience, a center-ball hit (with a slightly fuller hit) works fine. Check out my follow-up video: ruclips.net/video/UOQcN299uwE/видео.html I make the 8 on the break 20% of the time with this technique.
Same here. Dr Dave's videos have made some eye opening game changers in my visits to the table. Even though snooker and pool are two completely different games I think there's something to be learned from every cue sport discipline but snooker will always be my favourite cue sport.
@@Dysusfusion Exactly. 90% of Dr Dave's insights about angles and spin transfer perfectly to the snooker table. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that in snooker, a lot more depends on having a perfectly straight and consistent cue action (due to the larger table size and relatively tighter pockets).
What 10% doesn't work? I am not aware of any pool physics effect that does not also apply to a snooker table. Obviously, more shot precision is required on a snooker table (larger with smaller pockets), but all principles and effects are the same. Right?
Excellent. This is also why its so hard to beat those guys on 7ft tables when your on a 9ft in virtual pool. It makes sense now with the corner balls always going and a magic rack.
Great Video Dr Dave! Q: I play on a bar box seven footer with a heavy cue-ball. Doesn't this mean I should use a l bottom spin instead of dead center for the 2nd Ball Break?
Most players, even top players, aren't always familiar with all rule details. Also, many are not aware of all of the pattern-racking and ball-gapping tricks out there: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/ Hopefully, my videos and other resources help make people (including refs) more aware.
@@DrDaveBilliards Didn't they make a couple of those rule changes specifically to address that break of Corey's? Meaning no patterns, and no slow breaks. Also, did you see the rack pic of Shane's that Shaw posted because he knew you couldn't pocket the specific balls SVB was breaking the way he was, without intentionally gapping? I wonder what SVB thought when he saw Jason walk up with his phone? :-) Maybe, oops?
@@uncahay I've already covered 9-ball rack gapping in detail, including Shane's "creativity" at a recent Derby City Classic. See the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/ Specifically: ruclips.net/video/22M3ZK86cz4/видео.html billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2018/march18_break_feature.pdf
Dr Dave, thank you as always for your clear and concise explanation of the game. That said, I'm sure I'm not alone in this comment section in wishing you had included a segment in this video on the specific gaps that lead to a successful 8-on-the-break shot for the 2nd ball break. It has been my anecdotal experience that breaking into the side opposite a lateral gap between the 8-ball and it's 3rd row neighbors often leads to a successful 8-on-the-break in the side with the gap. Example: 2nd ball break from the left with a gap on the right side of the 3rd row leading to the 8 ball tracking to the right side pocket. Can you confirm that this is true?
Somebody else suggested this also. I did not find this during my gap testing (I tested many different gap locations and combinations of gap locations not included in the video), but I will look at it closer.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dr. Dave, looking forward to seeing what you find out! Curious to know if you discover any english effects on the 2nd ball break as well. I tend to favor low outside on the 2nd ball for instance, as it can help the cue ball track either back into the stack or towards the center off the break.
I prefer a center-ball hit on the CB with a square hit on the 2nd ball. This helps me be more accurate and consistent, and I can usually send the CB straight across the table back into the rack area, as demonstrated in my "8-BALL 2nd-Ball Break Strategy" video: ruclips.net/video/jR1C4VY4uKg/видео.html
Thank you, Dr Dave for an amazing video 🙂 One question: Can you do a video on how to form a bridge when the CB is touching the rail? A.K.A: Rail bridges? I struggle with rail bridges a lot 😕
Great video Dr. Dave. I've been waiting for this one ever since you announced you were working on it. Approximately how many breaks did you have to make to put together all your breaking videos?
@@blondy268 Snooker tables are brutally difficult, and snooker gets lots of "air time." It is all about where the money is, and what people want to watch.
Thanks. One criticism is that the advice changes for bar box tables (7 foot) vs. 9 foot tables. But the vast majority of pool hall and home tables are 8 foot tables which don't seem to be mentioned?
I cover strategy for different table sizes in my “8-BALL 2nd-Ball Break Strategy” video: ruclips.net/video/jR1C4VY4uKg/видео.html and more info can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/strategy/bar-box/ You are correct that the vast majority of home tables are 8’, but this is not a very common size in bars and pool halls in the US (where most tables are 9’ or 7’). Because the 8’ table is in between, most strategies work equally well.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks. Maybe Austin is an outlier then. Our 2 biggest pool halls (Fast Eddie’s and Slick Willie’s) which each have multiple locations around Austin and San Antonio have one or two nine foot tables and the rest eight foot. Clicks Billiards was same way.
Thank you again DrDave for continuing your videos. My mancave is nearing completion and I hope to have a pool table in there before the end of this summer. Let's see what happens if I start practicing with with your videos. It's seriously cool to see you've seemed to stick with Taom Pyro :D Seems like I made a wise choise (albeit for a different reason) Now, speaking of cheat codes, I was wondering one thing, would you ever be interested in collaborating with a team creating a pool game? I've been playing Pool Nation on the PS4 for a while now, but I can't really judge how realistic the simulation actually is, and if there's one person that can definitely assist in getting a simulation as true to life as possible I'd wager it'd be you :)
I hope you have fun with your man cave. Concerning collaboration on a game, I am honestly not interested. I don't have enough time as it is to do all the things I want to do. In my semi-retirement, I say no to everything, unless it is already on my list of things I want to do.
@@DrDaveBilliards Oh I can definitely imagine that DrDave, the amount of projects on the backlog here is staggering as well! Enjoy your semi-retirement! I hope we one day meet at your summer camp, but I want to achieve Master of Pool on the exam before I take the trip :)
@@BlackStarEOP We hope to see you at a future Boot Camp. BTW, "Master of Pool" level is definitely not a requirement, especially for the Overview Course: billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/
I studied a huge set of gap combinations. The only useful patterns I found are the ones presented in this video. Concerning 9-ball, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/ Enjoy!
Do you drop your elbow when you break? If not how do you generate so much power? I am the 81 year old guy who is trying to improve after many years of not playing. Thank you.
I do not. The power comes from smooth acceleration over a long stroke length. The 2nd-ball break does not require full power. If you need advice for getting more power, see the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/
@@DrDaveBilliards i like many of your videos dr dave. Can you help me something dave how can i gate the svb instructional series i don't have pay pal or master card how can i get it dave. Can you help me with that if you remember i ask you to show me the good aiming system i like the svb aming and am good on that and i won't to up my game. Thank you dave.
@@abrehamhaile2365 The SVB aiming system is described here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/aiming/shaft-edge/ If you want full-length instructional videos dealing with how to aim, I recommend "How To Aim Pool Shots (HAPS):" drdavebilliards.com/videos/aiming/
Dave, one question: I could get my own set of balls and keep them in my pool hall. During pro tournaments we use aramith tournament sets while club has balls like we all know from pool halls. I spend quite a lot of time on levelling up my skills, on average 10hrs/week. Would you recommend getting my own set in such case?
I have bought the Aramith alu case with the ballset, room for 2 pool cues as well, and all I can say is, go for it :) You can't blame the material anymore that way
Ideally, you should practice for a particular tournament on equipment (table, pockets, cloth, balls) matching the tournament conditions as closely as possible. But a good player can quickly adjust to any equipment conditions, so it probably isn't a big deal after all.
@@nuggers23 My guess would be if the tournament owner and your opponent don't mind, probably OK, if not, not so much. I know what you mean though. At my hall some of the balls are thirty year old centennials, decent balls, worn all to hell, and people occasionally take balls so they replace them with new ones that don't match. Between that and the crappy wooden racks they have getting a tight rack is literally impossible. I've taken to just trying to get the first three rows tight, and maybe swap balls two or three times to try to get at least most of the balls touching. I bought some new Aramith pros and a good quality one piece aluminum rack and the first time I used them you could make racks so perfect I couldn't cloth showing through anywhere. Amazing the difference. And yes, they broke, and even sounded different...action galore. I think they are actually the same balls as the centennials but matched much more accurately for diameter and weight, for the additional bucks you pay.
Sorry, but I don’t know of any way to do this. I wouldn’t think it is possible. Even if there were a combination of ball gaps that could prevent 8-ball motion, it would be nearly impossible to create the gaps reliably or consistently. Regardless, it wouldn’t be right or legal anyway.
I break with a ton of top spin hitting the 1 ball both in 8 and 9 ball and drive thru and drive the 8 or 9 to the left corner it's pretty easy. I have a super loose grip even on a crappie bar table I get so much action lol to be fair I over do it sometimes
If you instead want to use recommended techniques, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/9-ball/
Dr Dave, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the pattern racking rule was implemented because players found the advantage it gave Corey unfair. If so, it's not really accurate to suggest he was doing something against the rules. The rules came later.
I don't think this is true. As far as I know, the rules were in place long before that CSI event where Corey unveiled the 8-ball pattern-racking trick. The problem was, players and refs were not very familiar with racking rules or pattern racking possibilities. Hopefully, videos like this will help make everybody more aware.
Also if there's a gap beside the 8ball on a barbox, breaking near the headstring opposite the gap. Will push the 8ball towards the side pocket. Made alot of money with 8ball break pots when I played in weekly tournaments.
@@sysko1979 I did. When I tried it (over many times not shown in the video), the 8 generally came out faster and went above the side pocket. It also seemed less likely to get kissed in on a bar box. Maybe I should try it some more.
I have used CorelDraw (with a library of shapes I have created) over many years, but there are free electronic shot diagramming tools available under "table and shot diagrams" here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/templates/
Interesting that you published this video today on my birthday(!) because this morning I was playing a match on "miliclip". My opponent broke and something very odd happened: the cue ball scratched and then the 8 ball was also pocketed. He lost the game. Is this because the cue was pocketed first? Had the 8-ball gone down first and then the cue ball would he have won? 📍
Happy Birthday! Under APA and "bar rules," pocketing the 8 on the break gives you a win unless you scratch, in which case you lose. The order that balls go down is immaterial. To learn more about pool rules, see the videos, info, and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/
Hey DrDave, thanks for the videos as always. Question about the second ball break. I've tried it many times in practice and it seems more often than not, my cue ball is going airborne after making contact with the second ball. This often times is throwing it off the table or making it hit the rail funny which prevents it from rolling back into the center of the rack as described. Any idea why I'm having trouble with this?
You are probably elevating the cue above level too much. You can get the cue more level if you position the CB a little farther from the side rail. For more help, see the videos and info here: ruclips.net/video/zWukirAlb4Y/видео.html Enjoy!
Unfortunately, here in India, the 8 is racked on the spot like in 9 ball. What's a good break for that? Making the headball in the side with a cut break like in 9 ball on the spot guarantees a ball but it's a bad spread. Any advice?
I'm currently playing on 7ft tables with tight pockets on a coin op, dry break 9/10 so much so if I win the toss I let my opponent break, any advice on how to break on this type of table ?
I like the 2nd ball break better than the standard power break on a bar box, but the can both be effective, especially with a tight rack. For more info, see the videos and advice here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
Was just watching your BU exam video w/ Shane and I'm probably gonna head over to Fargo this weekend and see if Mike Page is around to try that out myself, curious to see where I'm at right now. I'd also love to have my dad take the exam but he's a bit hidden over in Virginia. Are you rated on the FargoRate system?
100% LEGAL according to VNEA cause I ask the top directors of VNEA myself and said you can. So quit saying ITS ILLEGAL FOR POOL. Maybe some sanctions but not all
The WPA internationally accepted "official rules of pool" prohibit pattern racking. So do BCA and CSI/BCAPL/USAPL rules. The APA and VNEA league systems do not follow the official rules of pool on this matter. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/rule-differences/
You shouldn't think about placement because it is supposed to be random. But if you see an opponent purposely putting balls in certain places rack after rack, and getting awesome results, then you should be concerned.
The best aim point for the 2nd ball break is aiming at the spot where the 8 ball and the ball beside it touches. This will give you a much more consistent break. Let me know what you think after you try it.
Thanks for the tip. I've heard of that before. I've also heard of aiming at the center ball in the back row. I will give both a try; although, I think I will still prefer my current method of aiming to hit the 2nd ball as full as possible without risking getting a hit on the top ball.
If you hit the second ball in my tournaments you lose your turn you must hit the 1 ball .....I made that rule to keep people from making the 8 ball everytime they break and harder to win the 8 ball pot plus the pot gets bigger and gives everyone a better chance at winning it
Did you see the follow-up video: ruclips.net/video/UOQcN299uwE/видео.html An even bigger reason to now allow 2nd-ball breaks in your tournament/pot. If people ask about your rule, tell them to watch this video for the reason. :)
Well I disagree with some of this. I mean a 8 ball break can be somewhat controlled but it is hard. You want a tight rack especially with the first 3 balls but none of this is really cheating. Even in his rules the balls are placed randomly. The only thing I would suggest is that one of each ball behind the 8 ball should be different that way the parameter has equal solid and stripped balls. His EXAMPLE did give solids a advantage not because of the pattern but because it resulted in one less stripe around the parameter.
Under typical bar conditions, it is definitely often difficult to get a tight and consistent rack, but some of the advice here can help: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/
I have to disagree with you somewhat on your assessment of the 2nd ball break. I have been very successful over several decades playing 8 ball on 7and 8 footers, 8 ball being the one game I dislike on 9 ft. tables and don't play it on them . While the second ball break increases increases your chances of making the 8 somewhat, in my experience the rack tends to stay more clustered. That's why it's a better break for an alternate or loser break format. If it's winner break, the
Sorry, my comment got interrupted. As I was saying, if it's winner break I prefer to hit the center ball and drag whitey to the side rail and out to center table. I've found this is pretty reliable for making a ball and getting a better spread thus making it much easier to string racks.
I wondered where that kid saw that rack set up. He was either trying to cheat me, or somebody's been cheating him. Imagine almost getting cheated by a guy named Jesus lol.
It is in between the bar box and 9' table, so all approaches have a chance to work. Obviously, it is best to try each out on a given table to see which works best. The standard power break works on all table sizes. Info for how to make adjustments if necessary can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
What irritates me at the hall is when some idiot can't get a tight rack, so he pushes the ball in tight and hits is SO damned hard with another ball that it looks like he's trying to drive a railroad spike in with one hit. If you don't hit exactly that spot, or worse if someone has done it to more than one outer ball in the rack, that spot AND the right angle, good luck getting a rack to stay together on the table if it isn't perfectly lined up with what they set, which usually seems to be crooked as hell. I wish these guys would look at a pro setting a ball sometimes. On the very rare occasion that they do they push it and hit it with a very light tap, which sets it just fine and doesn't divot the cloth from that point on until it is replaced. And if it rolls out they push it back in and lightly tap it again. I've seen guys like Venom really divot a ball into a table for a setup that must be exceptionally tight, but he usually says don't do this unless it has been authorized by the table owner, or it is your own table and you don't mind damage it does. And he's arguably one of the best, if not THE best artistic pool player in the world, so there's that.
I tap balls on my table very firmly often when setting up shots for videos. It doesn't hurt anything. I really tapped them hard when I "trained" my table, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/
If a ref or opponent is racking and the breaker is allowed to inspect the rack, the breaker will most certainly look for any gaps and ask for a re-rack (if allowed) or adjust their breaking strategy accordingly. And if the breaker racks their own and can't avoid a gap, there is nothing wrong with "reading the rack" and adjusting breaking strategy accordingly.
I measured and weighed a bunch of CBs and OBs at a pool hall once. They vary more than you think after significant use. See the end of this article: billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2012/feb12.pdf And for more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/ball/weight/ Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards You the man, Dr Dave! It’s very interesting that the weight change occurs. Most people, including myself, would have never have thought of such a thing. It’s makes perfect sense.
You can't reliably judge double hits by the sound. You need to look at how the CB moves. Here, it obviously moves along the tangent line, so it is a good hit. For those interested, details on how to both detect and avoid all sorts of double hits, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/
To which technique in the video are you referring? Pattern racking and ball gapping are definitely against the rules. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/
A “cheat code” is something that others don’t know that gives you an advantage. Knowing how to rack tightly is not cheating, but it certainly gives you an advantage.
The rules for that event one solid one stripe on corners...calling someone a cheater can be slander also can't use someone likeness without permission. Please take this video down you have been warned ⚠️
I didn’t call anybody a “cheater.” I just pointed out that pattern racking is illegal under the WPA “official rules of pool.” It is also prohibited under CSI rules. That tournament was a CSI event, and I am pretty sure they were playing under CSI rules.
Purposefully creating gaps in the rack in certain places is cheating; but “reading” a rack to take advantage of unintentional gaps, especially on a table that will not rack tightly, is smart.
Let’s just spare a moment to recognize how much the time and commitment put into creating the video. It's truly fantastic. How do you feel about Rendozguides? I discovered it when trying to find the good mod for the game and it never let me down even a single one time. Anw, I like your vid. Great job!
![Baby Kia - GLOVES & DRACS (BLACK AF1s) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ajm8LeB0qQk/mqdefault.jpg)
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:27 - Pattern Racking
1:52 - 2nd-Ball Break
3:23 - Ball Gap Effects
5:58 - Tight Rack
6:19 - Standard Power Break
7:33 - Wrap Up
*Supporting Resources:*
- 8-ball break resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
- pattern racking resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/
- rules of pool: billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/
- how to get a tight rack: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/
- “Dr. Dave 8-Ball RUN-OUTS and BREAK ADVICE” video: ruclips.net/video/eGAEfE71WPc/видео.html
- “8-BALL 2nd-Ball Break Strategy ... How to POCKET THE 8 ON THE BREAK” video: ruclips.net/video/jR1C4VY4uKg/видео.html
- “Best Pool BREAK SHOTS of All Time in 9-ball, 10-ball, and 8-ball”video: ruclips.net/video/6jYtFvOUzbk/видео.html
*Subscribe to Dr. Dave's RUclips Channel:*
ruclips.net/user/DrDaveBilliards
I shoot pool with some guys twice a week at the 55+ RV place I live. I hadn't pocketed the 8 ball on the break in 40 years. Just recently I pocketed the 8 ball on the break when it rocketed all the way up table into the left hand corner pocket. I was pretty happy about that. My very next break the 8 ball stopped about 1 centimeter from dropping in the side pocket. While that may be commonplace to a lot of people I thought it was pretty special to me.
Good job. I hope my videos helped.
One night when I was really on, I made 3 8 ball breaks
I get it every 100 breaks .. but I do a de Luna style 9 ball break on the 8 rack and some times it goes reallllly badly some times I don’t suggest it just sharing something about my seld
I have been playing pool for the best part of 15 years and I still learn something new or new perspective on something I thought I knew every time I watch one of your videos. I wish I found you earlier, would have been a much better player. I'm also baffled at how you find the time and energy to reply to every single comment. You're truly a legend, sir!
Thanks for the kind comments. I learn new stuff often also when I work on new videos. That's one thing that keeps me interested.
@@DrDaveBilliards I spin the the two balls behind the eight and the ball in the middle of them on next row all at once if I'm racking for my opponent. If you do it right the opponent won't notice and the eight usually stays where it's at or close and the balls don't break out as well. Even with the rack tight.
@@dustincobb5718 Unless you are creating gaps, spinning the balls won't do much. Since the 8 tends to head up table with a tight rack, I can see how creating gaps (even tiny ones) behind the 8 might help it move less.
@@DrDaveBilliards I say your wrong it works atleast 70/80 percent of the time in tournaments I've been in and I've played a lot. It can't be just luck. I got no reason to lie or nothing to gain from it. Now it works better with the last row ball loose instead of spinning it but I don't do that. Because they always check my racks.
@@dustincobb5718 It is not luck. Turning balls can create tiny gaps (or looseness) which will change how the 8 responds.
After watching your video on looking for the 8 ball gap in the rack I got an 8 on the break my 1st game of the night! I've only ever done it one other time in league play and now I have the ultimate cheat code to help get a win! Thank you for all the useful info. Hope to shoot a few more racks with you soon!
I'm glad to hear it. Catch you later.
Well it is difficult to comprehend Honest Pool Players world not be people with integrity.😎
Thanks for the education Dr. Dave.👍
Another great educational video.♥️♥️♥️
You're welcome. Thank you for watching and commenting, like you always do. 👍
I developed a hard inside English second ball break and got the 8 ball on the break (winning in my league) 4 times in a season (130 team games). If you look at the break at the beginning of this video the second ball break brought the 8 out almost into the side, if he'd used inside (right from the shooters perspective) the 8 likely would have gone in. The inside English also helps the cue ball stay inside and break up the rest of the rack out as well.
In my experience, a center-ball hit (with a slightly fuller hit) works fine. Check out my follow-up video:
ruclips.net/video/UOQcN299uwE/видео.html
I make the 8 on the break 20% of the time with this technique.
I'm a snooker player but these precise scientific vids fascinate me. Thanks Dr. Dave!
I'm happy to hear it. You're welcome!
Same here. Dr Dave's videos have made some eye opening game changers in my visits to the table. Even though snooker and pool are two completely different games I think there's something to be learned from every cue sport discipline but snooker will always be my favourite cue sport.
@@Dysusfusion Exactly. 90% of Dr Dave's insights about angles and spin transfer perfectly to the snooker table. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that in snooker, a lot more depends on having a perfectly straight and consistent cue action (due to the larger table size and relatively tighter pockets).
I'm glad to hear my stuff has helped your game! Thanks for the comment.
What 10% doesn't work? I am not aware of any pool physics effect that does not also apply to a snooker table. Obviously, more shot precision is required on a snooker table (larger with smaller pockets), but all principles and effects are the same. Right?
My man never fails
Excellent. This is also why its so hard to beat those guys on 7ft tables when your on a 9ft in virtual pool. It makes sense now with the corner balls always going and a magic rack.
Great Video Dr Dave!
Q: I play on a bar box seven footer with a heavy cue-ball. Doesn't this mean I should use a l bottom spin instead of dead center for the 2nd Ball Break?
Yes. A heavy CB would require backspin or outside spin to bring the CB through the rack area.
It's funny seeing Deuel being first in the "how not to rack"/"cheater racks" video clip.
Corey has pioneered many break "cheat codes" over the years. He has earned the top spot. :)
Most players, even top players, aren't always familiar with all rule details. Also, many are not aware of all of the pattern-racking and ball-gapping tricks out there:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/
Hopefully, my videos and other resources help make people (including refs) more aware.
@@DrDaveBilliards You should've featured a top pro cheater on the "gaps between the balls" segment too. Shane van Boening is a good example.
@@DrDaveBilliards Didn't they make a couple of those rule changes specifically to address that break of Corey's? Meaning no patterns, and no slow breaks.
Also, did you see the rack pic of Shane's that Shaw posted because he knew you couldn't pocket the specific balls SVB was breaking the way he was, without intentionally gapping? I wonder what SVB thought when he saw Jason walk up with his phone? :-) Maybe, oops?
@@uncahay I've already covered 9-ball rack gapping in detail, including Shane's "creativity" at a recent Derby City Classic. See the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/
Specifically:
ruclips.net/video/22M3ZK86cz4/видео.html
billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2018/march18_break_feature.pdf
Dr Dave, thank you as always for your clear and concise explanation of the game. That said, I'm sure I'm not alone in this comment section in wishing you had included a segment in this video on the specific gaps that lead to a successful 8-on-the-break shot for the 2nd ball break. It has been my anecdotal experience that breaking into the side opposite a lateral gap between the 8-ball and it's 3rd row neighbors often leads to a successful 8-on-the-break in the side with the gap. Example: 2nd ball break from the left with a gap on the right side of the 3rd row leading to the 8 ball tracking to the right side pocket. Can you confirm that this is true?
Somebody else suggested this also. I did not find this during my gap testing (I tested many different gap locations and combinations of gap locations not included in the video), but I will look at it closer.
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dr. Dave, looking forward to seeing what you find out! Curious to know if you discover any english effects on the 2nd ball break as well. I tend to favor low outside on the 2nd ball for instance, as it can help the cue ball track either back into the stack or towards the center off the break.
I prefer a center-ball hit on the CB with a square hit on the 2nd ball. This helps me be more accurate and consistent, and I can usually send the CB straight across the table back into the rack area, as demonstrated in my "8-BALL 2nd-Ball Break Strategy" video:
ruclips.net/video/jR1C4VY4uKg/видео.html
Thanks Doc.
You're welcome. I aim to swerve ... and to help stop cheating. :)
Thank you, Dr Dave for an amazing video 🙂
One question: Can you do a video on how to form a bridge when the CB is touching the rail? A.K.A: Rail bridges?
I struggle with rail bridges a lot 😕
I cover "rail bridges" in detail here:
ruclips.net/video/PevddF2gRh4/видео.html
Thanks for another great tutorial! I've learned so much from your channel.
You’re welcome. I’m glad to hear it.
Great video Dr. Dave. I've been waiting for this one ever since you announced you were working on it. Approximately how many breaks did you have to make to put together all your breaking videos?
Thanks. I'm glad you like it. I did 60 breaks on the bar box and about 80 on my 9 footer (when studying a large collection of ball gap combinations).
@@DrDaveBilliards That's a significant sampling.
Did you note your most successful break (maximum pocketed)?
@@raygrinders3918 I made 3 balls several times. I think I made 4 once. The most I have every made (in the past) is 6.
DrDave just wanted your opinion on UK Vs American pool table and if you think one is easier than the other
I don't have any direct experience, but I have heard the UK tables are tougher.
@@DrDaveBilliards is that why you don't see any televised tournaments using UK tables?
@@blondy268 Snooker tables are brutally difficult, and snooker gets lots of "air time." It is all about where the money is, and what people want to watch.
Appreciate the insight... Dr.... Useful info
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
@@DrDaveBilliards when u say this what do you usually mean lol
@@apexpredatorbilliardstraining See "Why do you use the tagline 'I aim to swerve'?" here:
billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave/interview/
@@DrDaveBilliards ok
Thanks. One criticism is that the advice changes for bar box tables (7 foot) vs. 9 foot tables. But the vast majority of pool hall and home tables are 8 foot tables which don't seem to be mentioned?
I cover strategy for different table sizes in my “8-BALL 2nd-Ball Break Strategy” video:
ruclips.net/video/jR1C4VY4uKg/видео.html
and more info can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/strategy/bar-box/
You are correct that the vast majority of home tables are 8’, but this is not a very common size in bars and pool halls in the US (where most tables are 9’ or 7’). Because the 8’ table is in between, most strategies work equally well.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks. Maybe Austin is an outlier then. Our 2 biggest pool halls (Fast Eddie’s and Slick Willie’s) which each have multiple locations around Austin and San Antonio have one or two nine foot tables and the rest eight foot. Clicks Billiards was same way.
@@richardnicholas2957 I thought everything was supposed to be bigger in Texas! :)
Thank you again DrDave for continuing your videos. My mancave is nearing completion and I hope to have a pool table in there before the end of this summer. Let's see what happens if I start practicing with with your videos. It's seriously cool to see you've seemed to stick with Taom Pyro :D Seems like I made a wise choise (albeit for a different reason)
Now, speaking of cheat codes, I was wondering one thing, would you ever be interested in collaborating with a team creating a pool game? I've been playing Pool Nation on the PS4 for a while now, but I can't really judge how realistic the simulation actually is, and if there's one person that can definitely assist in getting a simulation as true to life as possible I'd wager it'd be you :)
I hope you have fun with your man cave. Concerning collaboration on a game, I am honestly not interested. I don't have enough time as it is to do all the things I want to do. In my semi-retirement, I say no to everything, unless it is already on my list of things I want to do.
@@DrDaveBilliards Oh I can definitely imagine that DrDave, the amount of projects on the backlog here is staggering as well! Enjoy your semi-retirement! I hope we one day meet at your summer camp, but I want to achieve Master of Pool on the exam before I take the trip :)
@@BlackStarEOP We hope to see you at a future Boot Camp. BTW, "Master of Pool" level is definitely not a requirement, especially for the Overview Course:
billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/
@@DrDaveBilliards I know but I would love to to the advanced course :) And I can be pretty hard on myself :P
Again, "Master of Pool" level is not required for the Advanced Course. FYI, we still have two openings in our July course. Hint ... hint. ;)
Would love to see you breakdown gap reading in depth
I studied a huge set of gap combinations. The only useful patterns I found are the ones presented in this video. Concerning 9-ball, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/
Enjoy!
fun about your videos dr dave, for me your are the best, Nobel Prize ...
Thanks!
Great class Doc!
Thanks. I hope it helps you win more games.
Do you drop your elbow when you break? If not how do you generate so much power? I am the 81 year old guy who is trying to improve after many years of not playing. Thank you.
I do not. The power comes from smooth acceleration over a long stroke length. The 2nd-ball break does not require full power. If you need advice for getting more power, see the videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/advice/
Nice lesson dr. dave.
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.
@@DrDaveBilliards i like many of your videos dr dave. Can you help me something dave how can i gate the svb instructional series i don't have pay pal or master card how can i get it dave. Can you help me with that if you remember i ask you to show me the good aiming system i like the svb aming and am good on that and i won't to up my game. Thank you dave.
@@abrehamhaile2365 The SVB aiming system is described here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/aiming/shaft-edge/
If you want full-length instructional videos dealing with how to aim, I recommend "How To Aim Pool Shots (HAPS):"
drdavebilliards.com/videos/aiming/
Hey Dr. Dave! Does cloth type, like slow or fast cloth, affect ball spread after the break?
Yes. Faster cloth and cushions generally result in better spreads with greater chances to pocket balls.
Thanks Dr Dave 👍
You’re welcome.
Really good stuff, Doc.
Thanks!
Dave, one question: I could get my own set of balls and keep them in my pool hall. During pro tournaments we use aramith tournament sets while club has balls like we all know from pool halls. I spend quite a lot of time on levelling up my skills, on average 10hrs/week. Would you recommend getting my own set in such case?
I have bought the Aramith alu case with the ballset, room for 2 pool cues as well, and all I can say is, go for it :) You can't blame the material anymore that way
@@BlackStarEOP i keep my cues at my pool hall already ;)
Ideally, you should practice for a particular tournament on equipment (table, pockets, cloth, balls) matching the tournament conditions as closely as possible. But a good player can quickly adjust to any equipment conditions, so it probably isn't a big deal after all.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks :) I forgot to mention that I am also a sucker for cool looking balls... 😃
@@nuggers23 My guess would be if the tournament owner and your opponent don't mind, probably OK, if not, not so much.
I know what you mean though. At my hall some of the balls are thirty year old centennials, decent balls, worn all to hell, and people occasionally take balls so they replace them with new ones that don't match.
Between that and the crappy wooden racks they have getting a tight rack is literally impossible. I've taken to just trying to get the first three rows tight, and maybe swap balls two or three times to try to get at least most of the balls touching.
I bought some new Aramith pros and a good quality one piece aluminum rack and the first time I used them you could make racks so perfect I couldn't cloth showing through anywhere. Amazing the difference. And yes, they broke, and even sounded different...action galore. I think they are actually the same balls as the centennials but matched much more accurately for diameter and weight, for the additional bucks you pay.
Hey Dr. Dave how do you do the reverse when racking for your opponent so the 8 Ball basically stays on its spot with a 2nd ball break
Sorry, but I don’t know of any way to do this. I wouldn’t think it is possible. Even if there were a combination of ball gaps that could prevent 8-ball motion, it would be nearly impossible to create the gaps reliably or consistently. Regardless, it wouldn’t be right or legal anyway.
I break with a ton of top spin hitting the 1 ball both in 8 and 9 ball and drive thru and drive the 8 or 9 to the left corner it's pretty easy.
I have a super loose grip even on a crappie bar table I get so much action lol to be fair I over do it sometimes
If you instead want to use recommended techniques, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/9-ball/
Dr Dave, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the pattern racking rule was implemented because players found the advantage it gave Corey unfair. If so, it's not really accurate to suggest he was doing something against the rules. The rules came later.
I don't think this is true. As far as I know, the rules were in place long before that CSI event where Corey unveiled the 8-ball pattern-racking trick. The problem was, players and refs were not very familiar with racking rules or pattern racking possibilities. Hopefully, videos like this will help make everybody more aware.
Also if there's a gap beside the 8ball on a barbox, breaking near the headstring opposite the gap. Will push the 8ball towards the side pocket. Made alot of money with 8ball break pots when I played in weekly tournaments.
Good tip. I'll play with this some. Although, I get good 8-ball motion (and usually a better ball spread) with a tight rack.
Look up Joe Tucker Racking secrets video, he explains it in that video.
@@sysko1979 I did. When I tried it (over many times not shown in the video), the 8 generally came out faster and went above the side pocket. It also seemed less likely to get kissed in on a bar box. Maybe I should try it some more.
How do u make that visual pool table for the thing
I have used CorelDraw (with a library of shapes I have created) over many years, but there are free electronic shot diagramming tools available under "table and shot diagrams" here:
billiards.colostate.edu/resources/templates/
Interesting that you published this video today on my birthday(!) because this morning I was playing a match on "miliclip". My opponent broke and something very odd happened: the cue ball scratched and then the 8 ball was also pocketed. He lost the game. Is this because the cue was pocketed first? Had the 8-ball gone down first and then the cue ball would he have won? 📍
Happy Birthday! Under APA and "bar rules," pocketing the 8 on the break gives you a win unless you scratch, in which case you lose. The order that balls go down is immaterial. To learn more about pool rules, see the videos, info, and links here:
billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you for the info, advice and birthday greeting! 🎱 😊
Hey DrDave, thanks for the videos as always. Question about the second ball break. I've tried it many times in practice and it seems more often than not, my cue ball is going airborne after making contact with the second ball. This often times is throwing it off the table or making it hit the rail funny which prevents it from rolling back into the center of the rack as described. Any idea why I'm having trouble with this?
You are probably elevating the cue above level too much. You can get the cue more level if you position the CB a little farther from the side rail. For more help, see the videos and info here:
ruclips.net/video/zWukirAlb4Y/видео.html
Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks for the tip, I'll watch the video and try to make that adjustment
Unfortunately, here in India, the 8 is racked on the spot like in 9 ball. What's a good break for that? Making the headball in the side with a cut break like in 9 ball on the spot guarantees a ball but it's a bad spread. Any advice?
@@IndianHeathen1982 There is no obvious strategy there, other than getting a square hit with as much power as you can control.
@@DrDaveBilliards that's what I feared. Making the headball just leads to bad spreads. The ole hit and hope break then.
@@IndianHeathen1982 Yep.
So, what is the correct pattern for an 8 ball rack so as not to be called for an incorrect racking?
... stripe and solid on back corners, 8 in the middle, everything else placed randomly.
I'm currently playing on 7ft tables with tight pockets on a coin op, dry break 9/10 so much so if I win the toss I let my opponent break, any advice on how to break on this type of table ?
I like the 2nd ball break better than the standard power break on a bar box, but the can both be effective, especially with a tight rack. For more info, see the videos and advice here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
Was just watching your BU exam video w/ Shane and I'm probably gonna head over to Fargo this weekend and see if Mike Page is around to try that out myself, curious to see where I'm at right now. I'd also love to have my dad take the exam but he's a bit hidden over in Virginia. Are you rated on the FargoRate system?
Good luck with the Exams, and have fun! I don't have a FargoRate number, but people tell me I probably am in the 650 range.
Fantastic!😊
Thanks! I’m glad you liked it.
100% LEGAL according to VNEA cause I ask the top directors of VNEA myself and said you can. So quit saying ITS ILLEGAL FOR POOL. Maybe some sanctions but not all
The WPA internationally accepted "official rules of pool" prohibit pattern racking. So do BCA and CSI/BCAPL/USAPL rules. The APA and VNEA league systems do not follow the official rules of pool on this matter. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/resources/rules/rule-differences/
The don't think APA and VNEA prohibit gapping a rack on purpose either, but I would be pissed if an opponent was attempting this on me.
Damn played pool for so long. I never thought about the placement when I'm racking. It open my mind lol
You shouldn't think about placement because it is supposed to be random. But if you see an opponent purposely putting balls in certain places rack after rack, and getting awesome results, then you should be concerned.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks, that's valuable lesson.
You're welcome.
The best aim point for the 2nd ball break is aiming at the spot where the 8 ball and the ball beside it touches. This will give you a much more consistent break. Let me know what you think after you try it.
Thanks for the tip. I've heard of that before. I've also heard of aiming at the center ball in the back row. I will give both a try; although, I think I will still prefer my current method of aiming to hit the 2nd ball as full as possible without risking getting a hit on the top ball.
Once I started aiming they way I have said I never hit the head ball anymore. @@DrDaveBilliards
I've found out that if you break from the third ball you'll most likely always scratch in the up table corner pocket
... only with certain CB angles, cut angles, and spins.
Wherer can I buy his Magic Tissue?
That's funny! :)
If you hit the second ball in my tournaments you lose your turn you must hit the 1 ball .....I made that rule to keep people from making the 8 ball everytime they break and harder to win the 8 ball pot plus the pot gets bigger and gives everyone a better chance at winning it
Sounds like a good rule for your situation.
Did you see the follow-up video:
ruclips.net/video/UOQcN299uwE/видео.html
An even bigger reason to now allow 2nd-ball breaks in your tournament/pot. If people ask about your rule, tell them to watch this video for the reason. :)
@@DrDaveBilliards yeah I just want everyone to have a fair chance at making the 8 on the break instead of someone that practices all the time
@@chuckp3335 ... and you don't want people trying to "gap the rack" to get an advantage.
Well I disagree with some of this. I mean a 8 ball break can be somewhat controlled but it is hard. You want a tight rack especially with the first 3 balls but none of this is really cheating. Even in his rules the balls are placed randomly. The only thing I would suggest is that one of each ball behind the 8 ball should be different that way the parameter has equal solid and stripped balls.
His EXAMPLE did give solids a advantage not because of the pattern but because it resulted in one less stripe around the parameter.
Under typical bar conditions, it is definitely often difficult to get a tight and consistent rack, but some of the advice here can help:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/
My friends are gonna hateeeee me 😈
You little devil. 👹
I have to disagree with you somewhat on your assessment of the 2nd ball break. I have been very successful over several decades playing 8 ball on 7and 8 footers, 8 ball being the one game I dislike on 9 ft. tables and don't play it on them . While the second ball break increases increases your chances of making the 8 somewhat, in my experience the rack tends to stay more clustered. That's why it's a better break for an alternate or loser break format. If it's winner break, the
Sorry, my comment got interrupted. As I was saying, if it's winner break I prefer to hit the center ball and drag whitey to the side rail and out to center table. I've found this is pretty reliable for making a ball and getting a better spread thus making it much easier to string racks.
Agreed. One downside of the 2nd ball break is the clustering it sometimes leaves on the side of the table from which you break.
I wondered where that kid saw that rack set up. He was either trying to cheat me, or somebody's been cheating him. Imagine almost getting cheated by a guy named Jesus lol.
What about an 8 ft table?
It is in between the bar box and 9' table, so all approaches have a chance to work. Obviously, it is best to try each out on a given table to see which works best. The standard power break works on all table sizes. Info for how to make adjustments if necessary can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/8-ball/
@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you very much. Will practice.
What irritates me at the hall is when some idiot can't get a tight rack, so he pushes the ball in tight and hits is SO damned hard with another ball that it looks like he's trying to drive a railroad spike in with one hit.
If you don't hit exactly that spot, or worse if someone has done it to more than one outer ball in the rack, that spot AND the right angle, good luck getting a rack to stay together on the table if it isn't perfectly lined up with what they set, which usually seems to be crooked as hell.
I wish these guys would look at a pro setting a ball sometimes. On the very rare occasion that they do they push it and hit it with a very light tap, which sets it just fine and doesn't divot the cloth from that point on until it is replaced. And if it rolls out they push it back in and lightly tap it again.
I've seen guys like Venom really divot a ball into a table for a setup that must be exceptionally tight, but he usually says don't do this unless it has been authorized by the table owner, or it is your own table and you don't mind damage it does. And he's arguably one of the best, if not THE best artistic pool player in the world, so there's that.
I tap balls on my table very firmly often when setting up shots for videos. It doesn't hurt anything. I really tapped them hard when I "trained" my table, per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/
The pros don’t do this so you won’t find me doing it
If a ref or opponent is racking and the breaker is allowed to inspect the rack, the breaker will most certainly look for any gaps and ask for a re-rack (if allowed) or adjust their breaking strategy accordingly. And if the breaker racks their own and can't avoid a gap, there is nothing wrong with "reading the rack" and adjusting breaking strategy accordingly.
Our league you have to hit the head ball first and 8 ball breaks don't count.
I have never seen a rule requiring a head-ball-first hit. What league system is that?
“The balls are fairly new”
Umm, how fast do billiard balls wear down?
Shouldn’t it be much more to do with table cloth wear?
I measured and weighed a bunch of CBs and OBs at a pool hall once. They vary more than you think after significant use. See the end of this article:
billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2012/feb12.pdf
And for more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/ball/weight/
Enjoy!
I agree with you that the condition of the cloth in the rack area is a very important factor.
@@DrDaveBilliards You the man, Dr Dave!
It’s very interesting that the weight change occurs. Most people, including myself, would have never have thought of such a thing. It’s makes perfect sense.
Hey Doc, does this shot *sound like* a double hit? Seems too far from the cue ball. ruclips.net/video/Mk6zhZxUmuU/видео.html
You can't reliably judge double hits by the sound. You need to look at how the CB moves. Here, it obviously moves along the tangent line, so it is a good hit. For those interested, details on how to both detect and avoid all sorts of double hits, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/
Gave u a shot out on my channel. I Always watch ur videos.
I'm a proud subscriber!!!
Thanks!!
Its not cheating
To which technique in the video are you referring?
Pattern racking and ball gapping are definitely against the rules. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/pattern/
I don’t think so that tight racking is cheating
A “cheat code” is something that others don’t know that gives you an advantage. Knowing how to rack tightly is not cheating, but it certainly gives you an advantage.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks
Dr dave.... you need editing help...
Did you spot an error?
The rules for that event one solid one stripe on corners...calling someone a cheater can be slander also can't use someone likeness without permission. Please take this video down you have been warned ⚠️
I didn’t call anybody a “cheater.” I just pointed out that pattern racking is illegal under the WPA “official rules of pool.” It is also prohibited under CSI rules. That tournament was a CSI event, and I am pretty sure they were playing under CSI rules.
Better not cheating 👎
Purposefully creating gaps in the rack in certain places is cheating; but “reading” a rack to take advantage of unintentional gaps, especially on a table that will not rack tightly, is smart.
I got it 2 years ago I had $50 on the game.....The other guy was CHOKED :)
Let’s just spare a moment to recognize how much the time and commitment put into creating the video. It's truly fantastic. How do you feel about Rendozguides? I discovered it when trying to find the good mod for the game and it never let me down even a single one time. Anw, I like your vid. Great job!
Thanks. I prefer real pool over game simulations (which are never perfect and lack most the stuff that makes pool fun and challenging).