The $1300 KTM 450 Is FINALLY Fixed (MYSTERY SOLVED)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2022
- I finally figure out my my KTM 400exc would bog down and not run right. #Mystery, #Fixed, #KTM,
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Crazy I been watching you for like 3 years now. You’ve came a long way since then you and your wife. Congrats fr im gonna keep on watching and supporting. You help a lot of young mechanics out
ayyy i was right, i had a yfz give me an issue like this except way more extreme, would run fine in neutral but if you kicked it into gear would die instantly, love watching your videos, as a quad and dirtbike mechanic its good to see other peoples experiences, my uncle always taught me "smart to learn from your own mistakes, but even smarter to learn from someone elses" watching your videos has given me experience i would have never got if you didnt go thru it and record it so i can watch, amazing work man
For measuring a low resistance, like a coil of 0.3 ohms, we need to subtract the resistance of the leads. Touch the two leads tightly together and measure the resistance. The leads are usually around 0.2 ohms which should be subtracted from the coil reading. So if we measure 0.5 for the coil, then it is actually 0.3.
Do you think it could be the wrong pipe? The exc 400 came with a twin pipe outta the engine didn't it? This bike is single pipe
Joe has so much more experience and knowledge than me but I love the DIY feel. I feel like I could do what Joe does just because he’s so casual about everything. But I don’t have a cool garage. Or big field to test stuff.
Electrical Engineer chiming in here. When reading resistance of coils and wires, you should always attempt to ground out the coil to dissipate any parasitic charge build up by the coil and capacitor before making resistance measurements. Just a tip, when measuring below 1 ohm or low resistance values, you must anticipate the lead resistance of the actual instrument leads to account for all the resistance in the circuit measured. Usually on top end meters (Fluke 87V, Brymen, etc) they have a REL function to cancel out this. Usually it's 1-2 ohm. You short out the leads, hit the REL function, then measure. That way you have a dead accurate reading. Anyways I love your content and hard work! Keep up the good work!
if im honest i dont think you have got to the problem, your running a smaller than factory jet to compensate for the leak in the carb mid body gasket. That internal leak will only get worse as the gasket turns to more mush, the RFS engine has a fearsome top end power punch which doesnt quite seem to be there. Open the float bowl remove the floats and you will see 2 small screws the hold the top and mid body parts together. What you will see between the two parts is a very old mushy rubber thing that was a gasket 20 years ago. But fair play you got it running much better but i just know from the 4 KTM EXC bikes i have owned with the RFS engine and the series 1 FCR slant carb have all had the same problem. And while im being honest its dam near impossible to fix even though you can sometimes buy the gasket required, it was never meant to be pulled apart. There are a few gents in the States who can fix them and they can be found on forums. Myself i tried, i failed and brought 4 very expensive replacement carbs.
@@acmautodiagnostics8273 yep 100% i am really sure that the mid body gasket is gone, i have done just what was done in this video. And im just trying to help as removing the carb is a gaint pain on these bikes. Yes the jet change helped at mid range but though hard to tell on video but the top end on these bike has a big old punch. It had leaned out with that jet and clip position, raising the clip or as the dude said 165 jet will help. i just cant help think the leak wont remain constant it will get worse and then you start chasing again. Internet is awash with the mid body gasket info and as you pointed out the slide wears the carb body out then they are junk at that point.
@@acmautodiagnostics8273 you realise stock jets could be way off because the factory where it's tested before leaving the line is at a different elevation and climate. Guarantee anyone who buys one that lives near the factory don't have any issues 😂
I don't think this is a leak issue because it's too stable when he holds rpm. A leak would be inconsistent. I think the needle is now too lean and the main needs to go up a touch
You can take them completely apart. Put some fuel resistant gasket maker and put it back together. It will fix the problem.
@@MaNNeRz91 yea also different elevations and weather changes will change the way the bike runs. But anyways you can just completely re-seal the carb and re-jet it will be fine
@@OGKILLa9365 yeah or just put a cheap clone carb on it. One I use works fine with branded jets and needle instead of the poor quality ones that come with it. As long as the slider cut out is good and functions properly. It's the same carb 😆
It's not hitting the rev limiter...it's cutting out of spark. That's why your spark plug looks rich. Cuz fuel is still flowing in with no spark.
Great vid man, not a lot of things you can’t fix watching your vids for the last 4 years😂 don’t miss any
Love what you've done with your shop. Looks nice and better organized.
So I finished watching the video. And there is a lot more power to be had on that beast. You should have a hard time keeping the front tire on the ground even half way through 3rd gear.
Was thinking the Same thing, especially on the road it wouldn't keep the front end down I know!
I had a 450 and had to just about sit on the handlebars to keep the front tire on the ground. They really are a beast, at least the 450’s are.
I'll admit it's better but it's still busting up. That is not the Rev limiter you hear. Nothing hits a Rev limiter that fast and in every gear.
Agree, it's still crapping out.
Props on taking the time to do both of these vids buddy !
Look at the stator .Breaks down under load when warm...may be the stator .Early KTM's ,this was common .Good luck
Glad you figured it out. Love your videos. I did not think a jet could make it run that bad off idle.
Great video once again glad to see how you're checking the wiring I need to learn that!! Thanks
Something is going on with that carburetor making it too rich. Stock jetting is 175 main / 48 pilot. If yours had a 172 main, someone had already leaned it out. I would tear that carb down and find out why it doesn't run on stock jetting
yep its a leaking mid body gasket, and hard to correct
Glad to see you bringing the ol RFS engine alive. It seems to running a lot better than your previous videos on it. I love my 2004 KTM 450 EXC RFS engine. I fully rebuild the entire motor last year. They've got so much power and torque in these motors and I've only hit the rev limiter on it a handful of times as it is. Amazingly fun and reliable motors
my old 525 MXC was just excitment from the moment you got on till you finished, such grunt even moden bikes were no faster with the close ratio MXC gearbox it would match them... until the sand come into play then you felt the extra KGs
@@dubaitacker6347 That's awesome, I love the MXC bikes, mine is a 6 speed wide ratio transmission that goes really good on the wide open trails or on the street as a dual sport bike. It has a very high top speed at the cost of a little bit of low end power, even still I don't have much trouble hitting single track with it. Love these bikes so much
@@ZmanAdventurez88 just have to protect the output shaft they dont exist any longer. And with a non cush drive rear hub road use make it harder on the output shaft. But yes they are tough old bikes and still more than handy with the right rider on board....and that isnt me im terrible lol
@@dubaitacker6347 500EXCs (post 2012) have a cush drive system within the clutch basket to mitigate the forces on the output shaft. Check if yours has one.
Just bought a 2003 450exc supermoto, it runs like a champ when warm (kinda hard to get her going if it’s cold but I think it’s just because the oil is cold and super thick in the clutch I think) if I ever have to rebuild it how hard is it to do yourself? I’ve never rebuilt a bike before
Would have been nice to also see what the spark plug looks like after the jet change. Otherwise, great diagnosis and fix!
Check spark with a spark tester to make sure it is strong enough to jump a large gap. The spark plug is a small gap and is easily done until it is under load then it goes to missing.
Pleased you got to the bottom of it Joe ! Sounds pretty good to be fare . I did think electrical too . You are becoming quite efficient in your repair work .God bless ya brother . Thanks for the update
Nice job, the $1300 bike turns out to have been a good deal.
Yeah, that's not fixed. The high idle followed by dropping idle is an indication of lean. Did you put that junk autolite plug back in it? I've seen those not burn under heavy fuel load. Fouled plug could also be explained by plug not able to handle the load of high RPM. In which case, original jet would have been correct.
Love it mate, here in South Africa obtaining spares for these "old boys" is an issue. Love your channel and your patience...I would have wielded the flame thrower on many occasions!
Gl luck boet!These old boys need sum love!🤔👊💪💪
I wish companies would replicate the parts (as close as they can get to oem quality) of the popular old bikes
output shafts man are just not available anymore, been talk of an engineering company making a batch but never seen them available
@@dubaitacker6347 I just checked eBay and a company had 9 available, hopefully those are good because it looks like they have all the old ktms !
You most certainly made it better but still not confirmed to be fixed. You short-shifted that bike each time, you never let it rev-out. I am guessing you will need to tweak it more. Better but not done.
Love your work Joe here from Tasmania
NGL I don't always watch the entire videos, just don't have the time but glad you got it fixed! I always try to compare the main jets in bikes carbs to what is stock esp. a new to me bike, plug read actually told you the story on this one long ago unfortunately but that's mechanic life for ya. Damned if you do, damned if ya don't lol, at least it's fixed now though!
When you tested the plug on the jug. Lol. Yea. Looks like it wasn't as strong as it could be,kinda bouncing around too ?? Maybe not.but coil ?!?
It amazes me how many times people tinker with something trying to get more power then screw it all up and give up on the project. When all they have to do is go back to what made it run. All that work and it was jetting lol good running bike now
I could tell just by hearing it. Spark plugs don’t lie
Your Meter will NOT give a true reading whilst you have that darn beeper running .
awesome! had same problem in my yamaha xt600, that needle is just wow!
Week 5 in hospital your videos have kept me going
love your work man
My heart went out to you watching this video as I have a 2014 KTM 450 I don't know whether you sorted out the problem or not but I think it's possibly the CDI unit but I'm sure you would have sorted it now but I just don't know anyway Happy Trails brother 💯🤟
Good work man love the vide
It's definitely better but still not right. Somebody is gonna get a lemon lol.
once I put the 165 main in there it should be prefect. You can hear it's not a little lean.
@2vintage why would a smaller than factory jet and needle height adjustment be needed if there wasn't a problem somewhere else though is my concern.
@@sixteenstone007 exactly what I said buddy
It's not the Rev limiter he's hitting lol it's still breaking up top end. The jetting drop is just slightly masking the problem.
Bigger and more is not always better. Good troubleshooting on electrical and glad you got it licked. Ride it and sell it!
I had a similar problem with my car. We tried and tried and could never find the problem. We brought it in and it was a ground
That's how much difference elevation makes to carb tuning 🤙 commented on the last video that factory jetting isn't necessarily perfect jetting for your climate and air pressure
I wonder if the jetting being wrong is something to do with the pipe, the 02 400 exc came out with a dual pipe into a single muffler. Well done on the fix man!!
Wow ,long time no see ,you got a little shop /place now!
Not that this is the problem but I've never seen you address that a spark plug under pressure can not spark when it does spark out of the head at times
Great work Joe! That bike runs way better! 😎
If your really curious on the cc of the engine look and see if there is a stamp on the engine or just look up the model number
The previous owner may have had it jetted for a 450 since they thought it was a 450. That may have been the issue
Officer: "Do you really need to ride on the road?"
You can also do plug chops without any traffic......
Great video and well done! Unfortunately, I learn more from your failures.
Your idle speed seems a little high, and doesn't come down off of WOT. Maybe it needs a larger low speed jet?
You'll figure it out.
Carb mid-body seals.
It’s almost always in the tune of the carb!
Ho Lee Chit. That was tough.
I know this is 6 months old but I would agree with some of the others posts. Definitely rebuild, new seals in the mid plate, make sure your accelerator pump is squirting correctly and at the right time. A lot of people do the Eddie Mod on the FCR1 carb because there is no real adjustment but with a lot of playing around and patience I was able to get mine perfect. Also while jetting the bike I have read you should really do that with the accelerator pump disconnected but I am certainly not a pro. I am just a guy with an opinion, trying to learn the best I can and most I can. The only way to do that is try and fail then you try and fail again. I restore old cars for a living but I love working on bikes, quads and anything with a small engine. It’s stress relief for me and invigorating when you get them running too notch!
I Dont Know how u don’t blow some of these up just all pissed off chasing your tail on some if these. Great content anyhow buddy.
I still don't think it's fixed even tho it's running better if it was fixed that low end stumble wouldn't exist plus ur now running smaller then stock jetting and that should never be the case
I wish I could've swapped ot the jets on my twin carbed 750 shadow like you can on that bike. I couldn't tell you how many times I pulled that sucker out and rejected after slapping velocity stacks and exhaust on it. Only to find out the diaphragms were pinched... but I'm a pro at it now! 😎
Seems like a coil pack when it gets hot cutting out
High rpm stator coil...
I wonder if the previous owner had jetted it as a 450, and not a 400?
Love your videos by the way
Again with the fast click my finger locked up
Great channel and maybe Vinny is the future apprentice???? He’s a good dog
Really good power delivery creates great big smiles and is a safer riding experience. Very good.
Yet another great video keep it up
Had the same problem, remove that air splitter from the back of the carb, aftermarket product that doesn't work
Those gloves seem pretty good but maybe a bit loose on the finger tips, so I got a glove recommendation: Maxiflex 34-874 black dipped nitrile. They have different types but my favs have gray fabric. The palm and fingers are straight black with a fine texture, but no pattern or anything. They fit perfectly to the fingers, you can text perfectly with them on they fit so good. Best fine detail gloves ever imo, compression fit. They stretch nicely so size large will fit bigger hands.
32:48 ... and no more complaints about the harsh shocks. fixing the jet issue must have solved the suspension "problem" also.
The area that you live looks a lot like where i live, if i had to guess i would say northern Wisconsin. The terrain and trees are much like Northern Michigan where i live. Im just south of the bridge, not quite a yooper 😁
Good york Joe.
Hi , where are you getting your resistance readings for you coil from please
1) You say, you've been through carb 4 times?
2) Have you been doing this on the bike or tearing down carb absolutely to body, verifying all orifices, passages Circuits & Float Level?
3) If you went that far DOWN from 172 on the main jet from stock to get engine to clear out, You, still have an issue, 175 is stock.
4) You need to verify existing jets for not having been drilled or resized.
5) Accelerator pump rod needs the rubber bellows boot to keep dirt/H20/debris etc. out of rod actuator accel pump system.
5) Idle sounds way high also....Where is the mixture screw set?
Carb Specs per Haynes KTM-RFS (Racing Four Stroke) SOHC 00'-07'. Haven't compared for accuracy, to my 2002 KTM Factory Manual.
2002 KTM 400 RFS (Racing Four Stroke) EXC Keihin CR-39:
Mixture screw base setting = 1 turn out (400 EXC, MXC, SX, 520 SX)
Main Jet = 175, Main Air Jet = 200,
Idle Jet = 48, Idle Air Jet = 100
Starter Jet = 85
Jet Needle = OBDTM
Needle Position (all 400 RFS) 4th from top
Idle Speed 1400-1500 RPM
It sounds better smoother now ... I hope you made a good profit on this one ...
measuring resistance has a number of important points to note:
1) meter must be calibrated by putting probes firmly together and noting the error reading, which must then be deducted from the component reading.
2) resistance is only a guide, and when checking coils, inductors (chokes), inductive sensors and transformers, the value of inductance (Henries) is more important. Exemplia gracia.. an inductive pick up sensor may have a reading of 5 ohms and 500 turns (windings). If 1 winding is short-circuited, it would would be impossible to read the resitance (except with an LCR analyser), but would quench (kill) the value of induction, rendering the sensor useless. I love bikes, electronics, machining, fabrication/welding, inventing and.....!
NICE!!.. That was EXACTLY what. well, if you go back and look into my comments from before you'll see that I EXACTLY did not say it was what you just figured out that it was what it was.. AND I actually didn't even post anything in the comments.. LOL.. just messing around.. but.. I do like watching your videos.. I have an '86 Honda XR250R, '03 Honda XR250R and my sons '14 CRF125FB which he already outgrew last year. I bought it over 5 years ago for $750.. NO JOKE.. the kid (17) was just tired of it and also outgrew it. I spent around $400 on brand new parts from Babbitt (If memory serves me right) and replaced all the bad i.e. Kick, both pegs, handlebar, seat, key switch etc. Ran through the wiring and made repairs. Now, I see these bikes are selling for over $2K.. niiiiccceeee!!.. LOL.. The company that worked on my '03 took so long in fixing it, they're giving me a '76 Honda street bike but no title. The original owner didn't want to pay $1500 to fix it...but I'll sure take it.. lol.. I think it's a prelude to the Goldwings model.. I'll find out more next week.. AND.. I'll start working more on them myself.. thanks to YOU!!.. Great content!!.. CHEERS!!!
Save yourself time and invest in some electronic diagnostic tools and an exhaust gas analyzer. In the early eighties, I invested in an ALLtest tool. Within a day, it fingered a car with a defective alternator, even though nothing showed as being wrong. A bad diode. Back then most cars still had points. The Alltest would flag a distributor that had worn lobes (dwell variance). You can often take an old PC and convert it to a testing tool with some interfaces. Then you can test under load. Exhaust gas analyzers can often be found cheap.
Plug is black from a misfiring or bad coil. Starts fine,revs fine,carb should be fine. COIL or wiring to?!?
What a deal. I'd buy that for a dollar well 1300 of them. You did have to fix it but your efforts paid off. Take care
Yep..About 100 kilometers down the Elbe.
Do I get that the stock netting is not working? After market parts or other problems?
I'd say it's those brogans. I could use one of those to canoe down the Chattooga.
Your 1st video indicated fuel leaking out of carb after sitting for 5 minutes.
That is a sign of float level issues and/or needle seat gas flow valve not seating properly.
This will make an engine run rich as you have found from Plug inspection, by Main re-jetting carb down, & raising clip lowering needle from OEM position. From looks of "Lay of the Land" around your test area, I would think you are at or near Sea-Level.
This would make me suspect of "Carb having been Rebuilt" by PO, having been done properly or just float level/needle seat issues.
The carb also has the aftermarket Power Now Blade from Scary Fast. I have this on my 02' 400RFS MXC along with the Accelerator pump bowl. My bike uses same carb and runs great with Stock 175 main jet.
Your bike does have either aftermarket header or the later exhaust header, as all 02' 400RFS motors had the twin header.
Enduro Engineering had a lot of aftermarket goodies for these bikes.
Experience talking here. I had a 2002 KTM 300 for 4 years. I know. It's jetting. The KTM is very finicky that year. I could tell the difference in the bike in a simple change of elevation. I can hear the engine is still rich in the elevation of the needle jet. Raise the clip in the notch 1 or 2 levels & that thing will rip. Eliminate the hesitation. Leave all the other jets alone. I even created a data base of which combination worked best at which elevation. KTMtalk will help you too with step by step, pictured, numbered instructions. Good Luck! 👍
It does sound rough , my mate had a RM 400 that sounded the same , Electrics fault coil and a dead wire ( broken under the plastic covering )
I liked how you used black and white
I agree with the mid carb leak comment. Seen this many times. And you should learn to test your coils. A resistance qnd ohm reading can tell you a lot. The carb was never ment to be taken all the way apart. I did fix one ounce by making a gasket from a bicycle fat tire inner tube. But I didn't fix the other ones when I tried. Good luck man.
Agree engine is not running to full potential . Carburetor not well if running on smaller than stock jets better, you seemed to rule out weak spark or ground. Why I wouldn't own one ,too complicated a design,what advantage is had on a dirt bike ? Why no carb. Drain ? Environmental issues apparently.Take apart so many times before filing in circular file from half court. Good luck Joe
@@georgepidick9967 but it's just like anything, if you figure it out then you can fix,work on and improve. In the mid 80s the over engineered KTM was dominating the desert racing scene. Because we could go full out over rough parts of the course at 110 when everyone else had to keep it down to 80 or so. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean you can't figure it out and then benefit from it.
too rich would be my guess, but cant wait to see what it was lol
That’s beautiful land you get to ride on.
I haven’t finished the video but my jaw dropped after lowering the needle didn’t work! I felt the disappointment!!! 🤣
hello, I have a beta 525 rr 2009 and it spins hard at the button (starts on the first pedal), I changed the electric motor, adjusted valves and it's still the same, do you think it could have it? should it be the unidirectional bearing or the stator?
Try pick up coillum maybe or jetting bikes in nice shape
They have realy good mottors so probaly not that but are known for wireing probaly cdi or stator
Did you put the needle back to what it was when you changed the jetting
Make it like the Grant Langstons factory look bike, they are awesome
Better, but not fixed 😒 still seems low on power, high idle etc
Yep idling high so not quite there yet
Hit frame with a hammer simulating vibration as you checking with ohms also
Joe you need to try and find a Honda trx 700xx that would be Awsome to see
why is it idling so high due?
I have the mxc version of this bike. Same year.
Bent lever apply washing up liquid to bend in lever apply once liquid goes black start to straighten repeat after removing burnt washing up liquid this should with a little patients save you snapping bent lever and needing a replacement
*SICK ITS ALIVE*
Did you ever solve the problem with the yellow Honda 400ex that you posted about two months ago?
@kincadepavic you think this will happen to the yz300 ?
Even a 450 ktm dosnt rev AS hard as a yz , or crf
not this one lol mine is just as fast if not faster then my slightly built 450R