The Absurdity of Wheelchair Warriors...From a Wheelchair Bound Pickled Gamer
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2023
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Wheels the Wizard: Look at me! I'm in a wheelchair!
_kobolds push him down the stairs_
Or tips the wheelchair backwards
Nah Kobolds would steel the wheelchair, attach some armored plating to it, and mount a heavy crossbow to it.... Now it's a tank crewed by like four Koblolds... (one to turn each wheel, and two as the weapons crew.....)
That said I figure actually being bound to a wheelchair isn't a requirement to using a wheelchair..... (This fact should be considered in designing mechanics for such a thing, as well as wheelchair adjacent objects like hand carts, shopping carts, Laundry carts, skates, bicycles....)
But a lot of this stuff is probably something to talk to the DM about ahead of time if you want to do it....
As someone who is disabled with mobility issues (Mild Quadriplegic Spastic and Ataxic Cerebral Palsy with dystonia in my hips, lower back, shoulders and right arm and hand) though I am not wheelchair bound (yet, I’m 42 most likely in the next 10 years) I cannot fathom why “normies” would want to play a disabled character. I don’t play them. As someone else said in the comments no disabled person would become this kind of adventurer nor would any party realistically want them on the team, the disadvantages are to great and the risk is too high. If I had a player come to my table and ask to play disabled I would ask them what disability and they would then have to deal with every single difficulty and hardship it came with.
For those that would hand wave all of those challenges away, that’s not being inclusive… that’s fetishizing disability. It’s not much different than black face or diaper play. It’s either just performative, a joke, or some kind of kink. Knock it off. Either make it believable or not at all.
I have a friend who is paraplegic, a para-Olympic athlete who won gold in powerlifting, shot put and discus (he even broke the normie Australian discus record). He also competed in archery, and marathon. He has traveled the globe and even went on safari in Africa. Even he doesn’t play disabled characters because of the liability and limitations they bring to the adventuring party. Just going any distance into a forest, jungle or swamp would be a nightmare. If magic is the answer for getting around all of the hardships, why is magic not fixing the disability itself?
They're doing it for "clout" to impress their like-minded friends, and virtue signal about how much they *care* about disabled people. They're really helping out by playing a make-believe disabled person while eating cheetos and drinking mountain dew around a game table. Pretty selfless and noble, eh?
I honestly think that some non-disabled people are in it for the "specialness" factor; "This character can't walk, but he's still a 'hero'...with his magic wheelchair, wooo", or, in a super-heroic sense, has an armored suit that allows them to walk (like the 90s M.A.N.T.I.S., or the "Exo-Man" pilot from the 70s), or like Daredevil, is blind (but might as well not be thanks to a suite of compensatory superpowers)...which all kind of defeat the purpose. As for "why isn't disability fixed in the setting" -- well, in a benevolent high-ish magic milieu full of magic healing, or a sci-fi super-tech setting, maybe it wouldn't -- tho I watched a video about "why are there disabled characters in Star Trek" where the author's thesis was basically "Shut up, you filthy effing disability-erasing scumbag, disabled people deserve representation and visibility" which I found risible. In a setting where there's basically unlimited free everything, and you can make high-tech devices out of spare particles, even to the point where you can break a sapient being down to fundamental particles, transmit them over vast distances, and reassemble them *w/o a receiver*...if disability exists, there's a fundamental flaw in the world-building. Period.
In a less-than benevolent-or-advanced setting, disabilities all over the place...but wheelchair-bound adventurers...? Nah. Nor would I ever want to play one.
(Typed from my wheelchair)
I played with a wheelchair bound friend. All his characters found a way to fly asap, be it a magic spell or item or racial ability. He never wanted to play a hampered character, he had to deal with that in real life.
And looking from a sheer logistics point. Even on a perfectly paved street or tiled hallway, there's no rubber in these settings. Wheels in general are heavy wooden and wrapped in metal bands. This works for things like Carts where you can pull them or push them with animals or people, but when you're motive force is turning the wheel itself to make the thing go...well the locomotives with the steel wheels on the steel tracks don't always catch at first, I could only imagine how without there being a "gripping" surface to grab hold of the ground, you could be pushing for all your might and just having your wheels skid and spark on the stone tiles. For now we can over look the use of castors for the smaller wheels, the main method of self propulsion would be a ever living nightmare where you'd only be getting towards combat by the time most of it was over (Unless someone else pushed you) and then trying to stop your "chair bull rush" would be just as daunting.
Okay 10 points for whomever came up with the idea for trying to be inclusive, but minus 10,000 for failing to think it through, and another minus 845,029 points for how it comes across as dismissive of the real struggles and just there for pandering sake.
So true. I would have been happier is they had a big dog pulling the chair like a cart but the fact is this simply would not work.
Even if the chair can fly, some hallways in dungeons can be narrow. If the hall is 1 foot and half wide, the medium chair is not going to fit .
As an actual for hand to hand combat instructor turned wheelchair user can confirm , chairs in dungeon crawl are bullshit and no one who was a fighting for a living would be in one
@@tychoknight the very concept is insulting
As a DM in a world with magic a person using a wheelchair due to injury would be cursed as the gods refused to heal them. The people would see them as a forsaken person. I can't think of any other reason why a person would continue to he harmed. This would be worse than the world we live in.
This would also be true of the blind. My girlfriend lost her sight to a dog bite. A monster attack that left you blind would again be a refusal of the healing other creatures in the world have access to. Why would the gods refuse you this blessing. What did your PC do?
The pcs in my game threw the character in a wheelbarrow and took him back to town for a retirement party.
The first premise assumes that the healing magic is accessible enough for everyone to use it.
@@Kronosaurus-1924 an Acolytes can cast cure wounds. If you use CR as an indicator of commonality the Acolytes is as common as a bandit.
@@pacoes1974
1. Cr is a scaling of threat, not commonality.
2. Cure wounds doesn’t fix disabilities, it just restores hit points. Read your dang spells.
Edit: just remembered, Acolyte is cr 1/4 and bandits are cr 1/8. So even if cr represented commonality, you would be wrong.
@@Kronosaurus-1924 No the first premise is that we're talking about D&D and that is a high magic setting with combat balanced around healing magic.
It's a near certainty that the characters will have access to healing, restorative or regenerative magics at some stage in the story - likely right from the start.
A wheelchair-bound individual would not go adventuring, and no sane adventuring part would want them along. Unless the wheelchair flies or has it's own power source, just going over grass is a problem. You also either have to use your arms to push yourself or have someone push you. I'm in a wheelchair, and I had to rent a scooter when I went to Scarborough Faire (a fantasy-styled carnival), because my sister did not want to push me around. It has grass and hills and gravel which takes alot of physical effort to navigate--and she's fairly strong. My scooter even got stuck when I hit shallow holes.
In one campaign I was in, our party was in a dense jungle setting with dinosaurs roaming about. Taking a wheelchair into that setting would be beyond stupid. I'm with the host in wondering why anyone would want to play a wheelchair-bound adventurer. The only good alternative I can think of for an adventurer who can't walk is a subclass of artificer who essentially wears an Iron Man suit. Or fly around on a magic carpet and hope you don't fall off--an expensive alternative.
Yeah, as a wheelchair user its downright insulting
If you can imagine all of the magic in 5E but cannot imagine a world in which a disabled person goes on an adventure.... I am sorry for you. Having only thought about it for a few moments you already came up with some cool ideas.
Perhaps even a dense jungle WOULD be a challenge for a wheelchair bound hero .... do challenges stop heros from going on their quest?
This is a game of make-believe. Let people play what they want, the way you are allowed to play the characters you want.
@@Shiftarus I was specifically talking about wheelchairs--which move on wheels. Although I did mention the artificer who basically walks around in an Ironman suit--the Armorer--and the armor functions normally even if you're missing limbs. And you can use a flying carpet to get around..
It's not like I haven't given this thought. The best solution if you get disabled is to get access to the regeneration spell--and then you're not disabled anymore.
By all means, play whatever you want as long as the DM is okay with it. As you said, it's make-believe. But if you're not willing to acknowledge the drawbacks of being in a wheelchair, then what's the point of making a fantasy character in a wheelchair?
@@Shiftarus "Perhaps even a dense jungle WOULD be a challenge for a wheelchair bound hero .... do challenges stop heros from going on their quest?"
No, but it's the nature of the challenge.
Realistically it would be a laborious and time consuming process just to travel a few yards. In fact the challenge should be so severe as to warrant a skill or ability check.
"You drag your chair through the undergrowth, pushing branches and leaves aside with your face and body, both hands straining to turn wheels seized and tangled about with vines & wire like shoots.... Lying before you is a fallen branch .... Make an athletics roll!"
The consequence is that you gloss over it only paying lip service to how 'extra' heroic the character is for simply doing what every other character can do with ease.
There are few tables that enjoy it when one player makes the entire game all about them and realistically portraying what to every other character is mundane movement as a herculean feat or building one character up as 'extra' special is likely to get real old, real fast - not to mention being ripe for abuse by narcissists and egotists (while frankly also managing to be patronising as all hell!)
Did someone say "What about flying chairs?" -- well as Chris said why a chair? Why not a ring, cloak, belt or spell?
Would you as a DM allow a character that sort of thing right out of the gate or feel happy making the lower level sections of your game just happen to be wheelchair accessible for balance reasons.
"Welcome to the Mines of Phandelver -- We pride ourselves on being a fully wheelchair friendly mining operation!"
The truth is that 'Wheelchair' in this case isn't something organic to D&D, it's based on the misguided and patronising notion that inclusion means insertion.
People want to feel that THEY are included at the gaming table and can play a part in the story, not that some modern device they unfortunately require is!
How about Adventurers needing to carry an intravenous plasma bag, or having to huff on an inhaler after a move action... Sounds great yeah, totally the high fantasy heroic escapism we want from D&D.
my girlfriend is mute but not deaf. her vocal chords produce no sound at all. when she asks to play a mute mage, she doesn't ask for the ability to remove incantations for free, she asks to do things like substitute incantations with something else like dance or other harsher somatic components or a more expensive hands free worn focus so she can sign language her spells.
@@AdorkableDaughterofNyx thats actually a pretty cool idea. Have you read the black company? The wizards in that have to use exaggerated dances and hand gestures to cast spells
When I saw wheelchairs and magic prosthetics, I got excited that Pathfinder was a whole lot grimmer and darker than it actually is. Then I kept reading and realized it was just glorified ADA crap.
I don't think that most people who are in wheelchairs would want to have a character in a wheelchair. The whole concept seems like it was dreamed up by a person who has no clue what it is like to actually be paralyzed.
You got that right. The last thing I want to do is pretend to be in a wheelchair when I live it everyday.
Yes, I had a couple people that had to use a wheelchair at my table a few times. None of them wanted to play someone like that in game. Vutrue signaling at its finest.
I'm in a wheelchair, and I've never felt compelled to make a disabled adventurer. In fact, I hope my characters never develop a disability.
If I was in a wheelchair I'd play a damn centuar
My first character lost a leg in a naval battle against a crazy orc boss with a glaive. He got himself a half-assed peg leg from a piece of railing, took a 20ft penalty to move speed, -5 to attacks and Reflex saves, as well as -10 to all movement based skill checks. (Note, this was 3.5e, so bonuses were a lot higher.)
But I turned it around. I made it his personal quest to improve his situation. Over time, he trained and got used to the peg. Lost some penalties. Invested skill points into crafting and made a better peg - reduced more penalties. He received training from artisans, bought blueprints and collected clockwork stuff to reverse engineer. Eventually (5 or so levels of skill point investment later), he had made a mithral automail prosthetic that could give him a +10 to jumping on activation. It was the coolest "magic" item I've ever had.
Having a fantasy character in a wheel chair "just because" sounds... forced?
If it serves a purpose, then sure. Maybe a character got injured, and now the party must travel to the Pool of Rejuvenation in Plotlandia to get them cured.
@@Camthalion666 that is precisely why I have always used a disfigurement chart in my games. Virtually every time a character takes a serious wound like that the player steps up and makes it an integral part of their character. Its a beautiful thing
Sorry bud gotta go up the mountain guess you gotta stay here till we get back
My question is, how does one fight while in wheelchair? You need your arms to move, and your legs are presumably not usable, so where do the weapons come in? Even a bow would be almost unusable in a wheelchair. Casters need their arms for somatic movements. Can you rearm a crossbow in a wheelchair? You don't have the same leverage, and limited to no use of your legs. You can either move, or make an attack. Best you can do is mount a lance to the chair, and charge everything.
@@whiterabbit75 it just doesn't work
I thought it was an interesting point on where do you draw the line for inclusion. I, as an average able body person, can't do parkour, can't climb sheer cliff faces, can't sword fight, can't hold my breath very long, etc. The game would be stupid if it made me play as a tubby middle aged dude, then the world never had challenges that surpassed the abilities of my real world self. I think it's the inconsistency of having an adventure that's basically super human and can overcome great obstacles, while also having a profoundly limiting disability that doesn't impede them at all I find silly.
I know it's a silly game with monsters and magic, but it causes internal inconsistencies within the fictional world that breaks immersion.
Having said that, do whatever is fun for you. It's a game, have fun.
I agree, the wheelchair character and minis are highly absurd, as a person who work as a CNA and was around many wheelchair bound patients, I can attest to the absurdity of it all.
I agree with your position, that people should be able to play in whatever way they want.
The closest I have come -in game - to this situation was using Harnmaster rpg, where a character experienced traumatic amputation at the elbow in combat. The character was in a duel, and obviously lost. We created a new character and our now disabled fighter became a rather beloved NPC.
I don’t think it’s necessarily appropriate for a character to essentially cosplay a disability. I would discuss it with the character and group but I would lean against anything that trivializes a person dealing with a disabilities experience.
IMHO people role play as a way to experience what it would be like to be something or someone other than oneself. If I had a player who truly wanted this experience and the other players would be on board, I would just want the player to respect what the disability impacts the characters life and promise to show respect.
It’s not as easy as you guys make it look.
It does pretty much suck! I do have disfigurements for grievous wounds but that is why there are regeneration spells as well. It just seems like this is a big virtue signal.
@@thepickleddragon8590 I experienced a stroke in 12/2021 and in a wheelchair for 6 months. I use a walker now and have lost my drivers license.
I am a veteran and was in Afghanistan as a civilian contractor.
My doctor asked me to compare my hospital stay vs my tour in Kandahar.
I told him I would rather do a month in Kandahar for every day in that wheelchair.
It was one of the lowest points of my life and would not wish it on anyone.
Now I have to figure out what to do with the remainder of my diminished life.
I hear you brother. August 9, 2019 I woke up in the morning, yawned and stretched out my arms. My back popped and I dropped like a sack of potatoes. Paralyzed from the chest down. My surgeon said he had never seen this before. The struggle since then has been unreal. 2020 was easily my low point. It crushed my will but I survived. I wish you further recovery and healing.
@@thepickleddragon8590 That is 100% what it is, a big virtue signal.
@@thepickleddragon8590
That is so scary your back went like that. I stretched once and it felt like my neck nearly broke. I was OK because I stopped in the nick of time. In my case, I had mercury poisoning making my body fragile. I luckily figured it out. I feel for you that you got this challenge in life.
Death is a status condition...
Fixing paralysis is child's play for a 5th level cleric....😂
The issue with attempting to force "combat wheelchairs" into the game, is about setting up an "inclusivity" agenda, then scolding people who don't go along with it, to feel morally superior, and/or to control what other people are allowed to do at their game tables. You also claim that there's a "community", and then you use combat wheelchairs as a conflict-causing wedge to divide it, then exclude anyone who disagrees with your agenda from the community. Finally, enough people get fed up and leave, and you're left in charge of a broken "community" with people who went along with your agenda, and you've taken it over, even though it's now in a damaged and pathetic state.
This is what WOTC's woke agenda is doing to 6th edition right now.
You do you, but let's not act like there's some kind of active discrimination happening against disabled people because of how someone else plays their make believe games. All the major battles for recognition and accessibility in the real world were won in the 1970s and 80s-- it's too late to fight for battles that are already won. Battling for accessibility in make-believe RPGs is battling for something that isn't real, and doesn't really help people.
I'm sure this has been said already, but the concept alone is nonsensical. I can see someone becoming crippled in an accident, but there is no ADA in any fantasy settings. There are no ADA compliant castles, towns, caves or dungeons. Hell, the ADA, or something like it, is practically unique to the Western world if not just the US. And the most mobile of 'wheelchairs' you'd find used by commoners can best be illustrated as what we see in the original Avatar animated series. Essentially a repurposed wheelbarrow. Purpose-built wheelchairs were the purview of those with the coin for it and that wouldn't be your average commoner. "Why do you keep pointing out commoners?" Because commoners is what most adventurers start as. Yes, you do have nobles who get bored and strike out for excitement, but the larger number of adventurers are those who want to rise above their meager station in life. And by the time adventurer's are running the risk of being crippled, they're also traveling with people that can cure it rendering it a nonissue.
Well said...
Good point, theres no way to fix this. Oh wait..... *Waves my Magic DM's Wand* , the world is what I make it now
Can you really not imagine a story where somebody cant be healed?
They were alone? The healer abandoned them? Its a cursed wound? A curse in general? What if they were born that way?
This is all sounding like the setup for character backstory and interesting roleplay moments.
@@Shiftarus It's not that we can't imagine it, anyone can "handwave" things into an imagined reality. Most of us learn to do that as children. This is not the point.
For the majority of tabletop roleplayers, verisimilitude and immersion are the entire point of playing the game. This requires suspension of disbelief, which the combat wheelchair absolutely shatters... because physics matter. Even if it is a fantasy forest, it's still a forest. Forest physics don't change just because magic exists, that's just such a lazy way of thinking and demonstrates a deep misunderstanding of the core issue that is being discussed here.
It sounds like maybe you don't understand or care about immersion, or maybe your imagination has not evolved past playing pretend and making up rules as you go, but the magic wand waving you are suggesting is antithetical to verisimilitude-driven gameplay for a huge swathe of roleplayers. I suspect this is either something one "gets" or they don't. I assume you and those like you are in the second camp.
And that's fine, if everyone at your table agrees that physics don't matter, immersion is worthless, and the concept of verisimilitude is just an unnecessary shackle around your unfettered "wacky, rule of cool, anything goes because magic" gameplay. Just don't expect everyone else to agree with you.
I'm just thinking people are fighting for food and a place to stay. If they had a professor x wheelchair or somebody did. Quite sure they would be robbed. And I guess only high nobles could afford them. But that would also only be in a high magical item game.
I'm not opposed to playing disabled characters in TTRPGs, but this fixation on wheelchairs is pretty patently absurd to me, and which I refuse to allow at my tables. If a player wants to be physically disabled, I'm fine with a flying broom, a cloak of flying, or even a hover chair, but for the not-so-magically inclined, mounts are _right there,_ waiting to be used.
The release of Elden Ring really highlighted how strong mounted combat can be for me, and includes numerous characters and enemies who are incapable of walking, but use mounts to compensate for it. So I say: ride a horse, ride a wolf, ride a wild boar for all I care, but any mount is a vastly superior option to a heavy, expensive, unwieldy device which was designed for use almost exclusively inside buildings and cities.
Piazo has wheelchairs in their guns and gear supplement.
Why not just create a construct that is magical and it is some kind of frame that is wrapped around your limbs and you use your mind to control it after all you have sentient items so why not one that is connected to your mind. think power armour
Golem pants. Love it.
I can see it as being an interesting thing with the party struggling to get a disabled NPC to an important place for some reason. But as a PC? It's out there. As for the wheelchair bound fighter with a sword? Not pretty. -4 to hit and +4 to be hit. Your opponent has all of the advantages in that fight. You're struggling to turn your chair to face them (you're one-handed) while your opponent moves naturally. More often than not it would be a short fight. But to each his own. If that's your game then play it. I personally won't be because wheelchairs weren't a thing until the 17th Century. May as well allow assault rifles or AFVs in your game.
-4 and +4? That is being kind! Trust me, you have no leverage in a chair to swing or stab. And you have to lower your guard to use the wheels...
This is of course virtue signaling. Personally, if I'm making a character who will be engaging in all kinds of combat and hardships, the last thing I want is to start out handicapped.
Case in point: I thought it would be fun to play a blind sage like the kung fu movies. Guess what. I never saw 2nd level.
@@keithosborne6585 no pun intended I'm sure!
Technically, he didn’t “see” first level either!
Thank you for speaking up about this foolishness that invaded gaming. IMO people that are championing the combat wheelchair idea are nothing more than people seeking to extend their victim hood persona to tabletop games. Then there are others that go along with the idea to try to prevent being ratioed. I agree with your take on people should play the way they want but a combat wheelchair would never fly in my campaigns. It is complete nonsense.
It took me a while to get to my point. I am long winded like that. Ina. Nutshell, to make wheelchairs adventure ready you would have to take away all the disadvantages of being paralyzed. All of the medical issues, of which there are too many to list, the pain, the constant pressure shifts, morning and evening routines, not to mention the inaccessibility of life in a dungeon or even overland. If all those things are wiped out to give someone the opportunity to play a paralyzed character, are you really playing someone with a disability? When it comes to that you gotta ask, whats the point? Its a casserole of nonsense.
@@thepickleddragon8590 Exactly. I am not sure of the mechanics of how the combat wheelchairs work but I saw they even considering not having them require attunement. They did not want the combat wheelchair to have any negative side effects. Absolute nonsense.
Its insulting to people who actually struggle day to day with these disabilities
@@thepickleddragon8590 it absolutely is an insult.
I'll play a wheelchair bound character if I can have double machine guns and a rocket pack accessorized to the chair. And a 360 spin bonus action.
12:35 And even then you could probably get that fixed still, but start the game in debt to the church or whomever fixed you up. Am I the only on e who see's that as a cool story point out the gate? Maybe you're only adventuring to make up the money before they send loan sharks or sell you into slavery or something....
Oh right, modern gamers are too soft for that much pressure....
I think the reason that people would want to play a disabled character is because part of roleplaying is feeling the cathartic release of achieving goals despite immense obstacles.
Somebody who is wheelchair bound might find it rewarding to overcome immense fantasy obstacles in a way that feels very close to solving their own struggles.
You use rhetoric like "you HAVE to play a character in a wheelchair"
Why? Nobody is forcing anybody to play a character in any way.... its just an option.
Also I got to the part where its fine if YOU paralyze the player? This seems pretty insanely hypocritical
I thought, oh, a polite disagreement. Then I saw your follow up. Characters also get level drained, eaten alive, dismembered by sharp swords, burned, mind dominated, etc. Do you understand the game at all? Have you played the game?
Shout outs to all the disabled folk I know who do want these options in games, don't let the disabled Uncle Ruckus here tell you you can't.
Yes, but *why* is it so important? It's not a necessary option to make a rules set for wheelchairs in games, since the game is always customizable, there's nothing stopping just house ruling it. The issue is about setting up an "inclusivity" agenda, then scolding people who don't go along with it, to feel morally superior, and/or to control what other people are allowed to do at their game tables. You do you, but let's not act like there's some kind of active discrimination happening against disabled people because of how someone else plays their make believe games. All the battles for accessibility in the real world were won in the 1970s and 80s-- it's too late to fight for battles that are already won. Battling for accessibility in RPGs, well, it ain't real.
You've literally missed the point of the video entirely. I'll assume you have watched it through since you seem passionate enough to send a shout-out. The points he is making are that ignoring the hardships of people in wheelchairs isn't inclusive. It's handwaving the real struggle of people with disabilities. He discusses the logistics of how difficult it would be to take a chair into environments that are logically impossible to move around in with a chair device as it's written. I don't recall him telling anyone 'you can't have this in your game'.
So I ask: Should his opinion as someone in a wheelchair not matter as much, since it doesn't match your preferences?
I’ve seen two dissenting opinions and they were extremely rude. That’s what you value? And you know a wheelchair bound person who plays a wheelchair bound character?
Lot of Republican boomer energy on this channel lately. I'm out! Enjoy!
Mmm, love that stuff! I‘m in. Boomer Power, assemble!