I actually picked up and beat this game for the first time ever after watching this yesterday. All I one sitting. First time playing the game too. Thx for the inspiration Ragnar 💜
I’d like to point out the irony in ribbing on all of the angry RUclipsrs that followed AVGN’s example, while making The 1,396,465 video about how AVGN ruined game reviews
I have a funny story about Castlevania 2: I was a kid living in Riverside, California with my parents and was on the final boss, (Dracula), and he was basically impossible! The game was brand new so there was no internet to look for clues back then. My mom came in to the room to tell me to get ready for church and saw that I was getting frustrated, so she said to look for clues in the instruction manual. Keep in mind my mom knew absolutely NOTHING about video games, and still doesn't. I was being a spoiled, bratty kid and rolled my eyes, basically saying something like, "ya ya mom, the instruction manual is not going to tell me how to beat this IMPOSSIBLE boss!!!" But she confidentially, and somewhat naively started going through the NES instruction manual for the game and came across the item description section. Upon looking at the description for the "Golden Knife", (or maybe it was "Golden Dagger"; I can't remember) she started reading from the manual, "contains a mysterious power." She basically said with excitement, "It says here that the Golden Knife has mysterious power! I bet the mysterious power is that it can beat Dracula!" But I wasn't hearing any of it because what does she know about video games! I was just getting more and more frustrated. Finally she kept suggesting it enough where I just said I would do it so that she would stop bugging me about it and I could show her that she is wrong. Well, the Golden Knife killed Dracula in one hit!!!! I was in complete shock; I couldn't even respond. All I could do was stare at the screen in total disbelief, feeling like a total jack@$$. My mom just had a smug smile on her face and said something to the effect of, "see, your mom knows best." Then she walked out of the room very satisfied at my total ego defeat. I never questioned her mom wisdom again. It's one of my favorite memories. =D
I think you might be slightly misremembering that event. The golden knife does 15 damage, same as the flame whip, but it also stuns enemies at the use of hearts for ammo. It's an alternative for the sacred flame, which was notorious for stunlocking bosses. The Golden knife wouldn't instantly kill Dracula unless you had already damaged him to the point where he only had 15 hps or less. IIRC it takes about 4 or 5 knives if that's all you use to finish him, but he will be stunlocked if you spam him with them.
@@SomeCanine You're right. I might be misremembering it, but I honestly remember it killing him instantly. Maybe it just stunned him and I whipped the rest of his hp away.
@@SomeCanine Just think though stun locking a boss could usually be the difference in the end. Once I learned that the knife could do that I always attempted to get it asap to bail myself out of tough situations.
Thanks for sharing your story but yeah Dracula is kinda of a joke in C2. Just spam holy water, kill him with 5 shots from the gold dagger. Even still he isn’t that hard without those methods. The build up is so good for this fight and it was such a let down.
It’s vaguely nonsensical but definitely charming in its brevity. And like, would ANY night be kinda horrible to have a curse? So glad these bad translations exist.
im reminded of the opening minute from when the grumps did their lets play of simons quest: Danny: "welcome to Simon's Quest! The game I loved as a child, and Arin shit on as an adult!" nuff said lol
At the time, I recall Zelda 2, Mario 2, and even Castlevania 2 as being very popular games. I personally prefer all three of these to their predecessors. All three could also use a little bit of polish, Castlevania 2 in particular really needs bosses in those castles. But there have been quite a few remake projects for Zelda 2, I wonder why nobody has ever bothered to do the same with Simon's Quest?
Simon's Quest features a time limit, in which Simon must remove the cures within seven days in order to get the good ending. Wasting the players time to gather hearts and buy upgrades is very much the point, the player is going to need to budget their time and find an optimal route through the game if they want to clear it within that 7 day time limit. For all the problems that Simon's Quest has, using the temptation of grinding to eat away at the limited time the player has to complete the game was an absolute stroke of genius.
When the game was released people didn't know there were different endings. I remember when the equivalent of Nintendo Power in my country stated they heard a rumour that there are different endings in the game and they were investigating it.
That's nice and all, but that's only really useful for later playthroughs once you realize, of ever, that there's multiple endings to begin with. I know that nowadays it's immensely easy to know that beforehand, but if I were a kid in 87 playing this, I doubt that'd be on the top of my list of things to really think about.
He did not say that he likes it, he just said it wasn't that bad, also simon's quest is a bad and flawed game i find really weird how there are people that defend it
@@wygolvillage2637 Or a retranslation that doesn't send you looking for ducks in cemetaries and gives you culinary advice instead of what the laurel does. (The thing is that the duck makes SENSE if you know japanese slang because you're a Farfetch'd nerd: you're looking for a _sucker_ -- a duck in Japanese can be slang for an easy mark.)
My biggest problem is while the world before reaching the dungeon is swell enough the dungeons themselves are underwhelming and the bosses seem unfinished. I do like the concept of Simon quest and maybe an other game that pushes the idea even further.
I can't remember the bosses except for the Grim Reaper that was similar to the first game's. And I can't remember much at all about the dungeons, either. This is why I say this game wasn't actually fun to play. It had objectives, and sense of accomplishment, but it was not fun in the moment like a Mario game for instance. Games like this which worked better for the NES had more varied weapons and game play: Mario 3, Zelda 1 and 2, Blaster Master, Mega Man. They also allowed for more expressive movement.
@@-taz- "I can't remember the bosses except for the Grim Reaper" That's probably because you could literally walk straight through their fights and not engage with them at all.
Here's the thing about the original AVGN review. As someone who grew up loving Simon's Quest, I saw the review as a purposely playful bash at the frustrations of a beloved game. I even remember seeing James Rolfe having said as much, though I think it's been lost to time, so I couldn't provide you a source. So I thought the review was hilarious as someone who thought he was "in on the joke." But now there are plenty of people who either haven't played it, or whose modern perceptions of it have been skewed who've, as you said, take all the criticisms at face value. So despite having laughed at this new Angry Nintendo Nerd guy's review, I still always went back to playing Simon's Quest through again every year or so because it really was a great game to play. I'm also excited whenever I see something like a fan remake of it so I can enjoy it again with a more modern take.
You obviously didn't play it before walkthoughs either. YOU NEEDED NINTENDO POWER TO PROGRESS, NO WHERE IN THE FKN GAME DID THEY SAY TAKE THIS FKN CRYSTAL! SHOVE IT UP YOUR ARSE AND KNEEL IN THE WEST OR LEFT CORNER AND WAIT!
@@dreadequation7320 Maybe German kids were just smarter than you on average, but that's not how we experienced this game. Stuff like this was just something you figured out while playing. That's how most of these games with cryptic stuff were played. You didn't need Nintendo power for that, you experimented, tried things out. You people are why Zelda games now tell you exactly what to do the moment you enter a room, you can't be trusted to figure out anything on your own :P
12:51 Ah Sequelitis. The short-lived franchise where Egoraptor insisted tutorials were completely unnecessary in game design... and then spent the next decade and a half of his career as a professional LP'er proving that premise astonishingly wrong.
Granted there's a fair number of points in sequelitis that I don't agree with, but what you said is put forth either entirely in ignorance or bad faith. Arin used the example of conveyance in Mega Man X to show how a tutorial could be integrated into the gameplay seamlessly. The entire point is that most (nearly all) games **don't** do this, and settle for telling you all the mechanics in long dialogue boxes or with a splash screen, which means that simply playing the game without reading the tutorial isn't possible, even for someone with a high degree of gaming experience and literacy like Arin. His refusal to read tutorials is done in the hope that one day, tutorials in their current form, won't be necessary, because that's when we'll have well-designed opening levels. Granted, there are perhaps mechanics that can't be taught just through playing a beautifully constructed introduction, such as in RPGs/RTS/Fighting, and other more complex genres, but we can still do a lot better than we've done for the past 40 years.
@@agroed yeah but the guy won't even read the text boxes indicating what the buttons in the controller do and then rage when he discovers half-way through the playthrough that he had an ability at his disposal that he never used, there's certain things that a designer can usually count on the player reading. I mean, it took Arin how many games to learn and remember that he could keep the boost button pressed down to run through enemies in Sonic games?
@@axelprino Saying this as someone who has watched Game Grumps religiously for nearly 10 years, I absolutely agree that he refuses to meet developers halfway, and a lot of his frustration is self-inflicted due to negligence. He is oftentimes an excellent example that you can certainly play video games the "wrong" way, plus it can be hard to tell when he's doing it for content or out of genuine disdain/stupidity, but that's also what makes it funny for a lot of people. There's also plenty of times that frustration could be avoided with a better control scheme or better-integrated tutorial though, and that's his point. For example, I was recently playing DKC for the first time and didn't know the controls (they don't tell you anywhere in-game to my knowledge). I was getting annoyed at a jump in Temple Tempest because I couldn't figure out how to clear the last jump with the Gnawty millstone, I was always too short, even with Diddy. Turns out, I didn't know how to sprint for the whole game, because you sprint by rolling first, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sprinting isn't a natural evolution of rolling, ergo it doesn't make sense to sprint by holding down the roll button. By contrast, charging up your buster by holding down the buster button does make sense. Meanwhile, sprint could have just been mapped to one of the unused triggers or the classic double tap to avoid confusion.
I remember when those videos were new and hot shit and the kind of thing everyone was like *supposed* to see, but at the time feeling the arguments in them were kinda off but in a way childhood me couldn't put a finger on. For whatever reason my mind absolutely refused to let it go and those old videos have been slowly rotting in my mind for over a decade as this weirdly omnipresent annoyance every time I think about Zelda or Megaman.
@@agroed oh, I never thought about it but I believe you're right in that DKC1 never bothers to explain how to sprint in-game. It's a combination of back then games expecting you to read the manual that came in the box and DKC lifting a number of its mechanics straight from SMB 1&3 (in those run and attack share the same button). So yeah some design practices from 30+ years ago haven't aged all that well. If you liked DKC1 I can wholeheartedly recommend DKC3, it's by far the most polished in the trilogy and my personal favorite but it gets often forgotten because it came out really late in the SNES' life cycle.
Couldn't understand a single thing that was happening in this game (I was 5 at the time without any understanding of english), but it was the first time I felt that oppressive atmosphere of venturing into the unknown.
I haven't seen the Nerd's review in ages, but I thought he made fun of the game's flaws. I didn't think he regarded it as a total peice of junk, like those other games he showed. I even enjoyed Top Gun at the time, but always crashed my landings for no clear reason, so he was right about that!
Simon's Quest is one of my favorites, always has been. Dark Souls 2 also gets a bad rap. Opinions of others, while sometimes valuable, should be verified by oneself.
I absolutely agree that the game, minus setbacks due to translation errors, is a pioneer in the genre. But you can’t disregard the fact on how insurmountable it was to progress without modern knowledge of fan translations or available walkthroughs. Simon’s Quest as a whole is a fantastic addition, but when basic progression is hindered to even get the very first orb (equip that oak stake, which you’re supposed to know that, how?) you have to realize that there were unsurpassable mountains for those without access to readily available knowledge on the matter
I played it when it was new as a kid. like, yeah, the poor translation certainly made things weird, but the internet did not exist, there were no fan translations, and I beat it as a 7 year old. I would disagree with the assessment that it was "insurmountable." I'd agree it was definitely obtuse, but honestly, it wasn't that much more obtuse than a lot of other contemporary games. metroid was not exactly straightforward in 1987, it explains almost nothing to the player, but it's not retroactively considered some sort of esoteric impossibility.
The devs are probably speculating about kids talking about the game on the schoolyard, and one kid who has by chance equipped this and that item and succeeded would tell the others. Either that, or video game magazines which often had hints at the time.
Games came with manuals back then to give a more in depth story and how-tos. Sometimes even small walkthroughs for early in the game. Didn't help with the kneel at the mountain, but helped with said oak stake.
I never needed AVGN or Egoraptor to convince me Simon's Quest wasn't a game I was ever going to like, I've always had trouble getting into this game since I was a kid and it was new. All they did was reiterate most of what I always disliked about it and played it up for comedy's sake. However, you make a good argument in favor of it and I can respect that. The game is not without it's intrinsic value to the franchise. I don't know if it's so much a prototype for Symphony of the Night rather than it is the planting of the seeds for what would become the foundation for it.
@@MidoseitoAkage Koji Igarashi is among my favorite game producers & Directors. Anyway, as people are entitled to what they enjoy or dislike, much of the criticism comes from the mistranslations from the Hints that the Villagers will give (Which they’ll lie as everyone knows) due to the localization of Simons Quest. The game has flaws of course. But as you said Iga took some of the formula of Simons Quest and made it fun to play.
Simon's Quest was one of the first games I ever played when I got my NES as a kid. Never really understood all the hate outside the bad translation. I spent hours playing the game, making no progress because I didn't have the Nintendo Power guide, and I loved every second of the epic gothic horror adventure. Simon's Quest is probably one of the biggest influences on my tastes in games, music, fiction, and etc. Thank you.
This is my favorite game of the series on atmosphere alone. The world feels immersive where the Actionvanias all FEEL like levels (which is fine for what they are) and the Metroidvanias all have areas that literally feel like texture swapped levels with randomly chosen enemies in them instead of real areas with dedicated thematic enemies.
I was hoping the author would touch on this, particularly with the Dark Souls comparisons. Both absolutely thrive on *mood* and I can't recall any game from that era absolutely nailing that sense of dreary, depressing mood, where the only light shining is your will to go on.
"areas that literally feel like texture swapped levels with randomly chosen enemies instead of real areas with dedicated thematic enemies" lol on what planet does that describe the igavanias and not Simon's quest
With Deborah Cliff, the Japanese version doesn't tell you to kneel. The only hint that you need to kneel in either the ENG or JPN version is the fact that you also need to kneel with the blue crystal to get past the lake. Basically, if kneeling with one crystal gets you past a roadblock, you can guess that kneeling with this is also necessary for this roadblock.
Yeah, I’d seen angry reviews and people talking about the tornado cliff as if it was super random and made the game unplayable, but it made sense when playing it. It took me longer to find out the water needed you to kneel than the cliff cause it had already been established at that point lol.
That "you had to kneel with a crystal for the lake so it's the same thing here" concept didn't work for me personally. I only ended up getting it through just trying everything for hours and hours.
What i remember from Simons quest is that most people in my country werent good enough at english or used to read and remember the text boxes. They had demo stations outside the toystore and it was probably the worst way to experience the game getting stuck and not knowing what npc to talk to advance
Thank you RagnorRox, you made two great videos highlighting my two favorite Castlevania games. As a 41 year old man who has been a Castlevania fan since 1988, since I was 5 years old and first discovered Castlevania 1 and Castlevania II Simon’s Quest. Just those two games made me a diehard and long time Castlevania fan, I managed to beat Castlevania 1 at 6 years old, but Simon’s Quest took me 10 years to finally beat, and it was because of figuring out how to find all the items and beat the game the right way, because there was no internet or quick cheat sheets to help back then. I’ll just say this. Castlevania Symphony of the Night is not even in my greatest and favorite Top 5 Castlevania games of all time, and neither is Rondo of Blood, yet Castlevania II Simon Quest and Castlevania Legacy of Darkness 64 are. That’s how much both of those games resonated with me, and I still play them from time to time, along with my other 3 greatest and favorites in my top 5.
Good video Ragnar. I live in the far north. Back in the day my Reservation was very isolated. Games were sold at the local Hudson Bay outpost. This game was introduced to me by a friend of mine. Yes, I played this before Castlevania 1. My brothers and I played it many times. We also eventually figured out how to finish it as well. No GamePro or magazines to follow. By chance and accidental gameplay we found all weapons, items and all of Dracula's Remains. Good times. 😊
I usually like your work, Ragnar, but I really think you missed the mark on this video. Lots of arguments that linger on and on and go nowhere, and a lot of "ifs" that don't exactly help to paint Simon's Quest as this misunderstood gem - I think you ended up proving that people are actually right about CV2, which is quite humorous in retrospective. I'm really glad that you like the game - it's a classic, and we wouldn't have a lot things in this franchise without it, but again, I think you tried a little too hard to prove people wrong. Really dislike the clickbaity title as well. I understand why you do this, but it ends up painting you as someone very arrogant. Still, happy to see more CV content. Cheers!
He also could've done without the segments where he lumps all RUclips game reviewers in with Irate Gamer and Game Dude and calls them "imitators thinking they can make a career out of doing Statler and Waldorf routines over game footage."
The version of the game you are showing was rebuilt and remade, fixing a lot of the frustrating aspects of the original, which had horrible missteps in it. The clues were horrible, the transitions were slow from day to night, and a lot of people thought the game made no sense.
Honestly, the town NPCs straight up lying to you in some of their dialogue re-inforces the animosity they feel towards Simon. They want to mislead him because they don't want him to make matters any worse than he already did whne he killed Dracula the first time. You know, at least in their minds. Poor guy can't really help Dracula's nature as an indestructible force.
You know if that was the intention, granted I'm working with hindsight here, I feel like they could have maybe indicated that more clearly by maybe making the villager text boxes that are showing animosity or straight up lying to Simon be indicated by the text box outline be red instead of blue? Could also play around with purple and white text boxes to indicate like dubious and truly helpful respectively and have followup text boxes, but I don't know if the limitations would allow it.
@@toonman5099 That would actually undermine the whole thing. People who genuinely hate you can often pretend that they like you, just to stab you in the back or try to lead you into trouble. Marking the lies clearly with different text or box colours kinda ruins the whole question of "Can i trust these people?"
@@Bloodfencer1990 Fair, but would having like follow up text boxes also undermine the point? Mostly in a "you tried out the hint, or at least feel like you did, then you go back to the hint giver for clarification, and it either confirms if they were lying, being helpful, or if they continue being vague" kind of way.
@@ZeroDarkMidnight I FEEL like the latter is the case in the game with some just not being interactable? It's been a while since I last played so I'm not sure. But yeah it would kind of help better sell the idea of the Belmont's being viewed as outcasts or the reason why everything is as bad as it is and that they're the problem. Although I don't remember if that was the intention for the games back then during Simon's time or just for those first few games up until SotN.
The NES was the first console I owned and Simon's Quest was the first Castlevania game I ever played. Due to a mix of "I'm too young to have the disposable cash to buy my own games, so this is all I've got" and the oodles of free time that come with being young, I pumped hours and hours into this game and I loved every minute of it. Yes, some of the puzzles (like the infamous tornado) I survived with help of word of mount and/or Nintendo Power, but never did it annoy me. The bad translation likewise didn't bother me as I'd only started reading a few years earlier and English wasn't my first language anyway. Then, when decades later AVGN and Sequelitis came out, I could see their points, kind of, but I just never agreed and Simon's Quest has always just been one of my favourite NES games, to the point that when I finally got around to the first Castlevania game, I didn't like it because it wasn't like Simon's Quest and I could never make it past level 3. Nowadays I still enjoy Simon's Quest and will occasionally play through it. Since I know what I'm doing now, it's never that same epic, sprawling adventure I played that first time, but I do still enjoy my time in the game immensely.
I certainly just borrowed that game from my friend. Also, I bought Kid Icarus, and he bought Metroid. The plan was that we can trade after awhile. But Metroid was so much better, I eventually got a copy myself.
Part of the game’s problem was how cryptic it was. We didn’t have internet in the 80’s, so all we had was schoolyard rumors about how to solve the puzzles in the game. I always enjoyed the game as a kid, but I never was able to beat it until years later when I had access to the solutions.
I never played Simon’s Quest, but I always defended their move, because of Zelda II… I always felt that at that time, we didn’t have a certain way that sequels HAD to be, and what they did was actually ahead of their time, and used a lot of ideas and mechanics seen in games today. And regardless of the games being good or bad, they should be applauded for it… Also, Nine Inch Nails, aaaah….lovely….!
Simons Quest walked so Symphony of the Night could run. I'll always hold fond memories of playing Simons Quest as a kid. Maybe not as vivid in mind as SotN but its soundtrack and designs will always be firmly in memory
There should be a scientific law that states that given enough time, there will be an essay about how any panned game was secretly brilliant all along.
What a pointless comment, this game wasn't panned at launch. This video is just pushing back against the negative reappraisals that shaped the narrative around the game, while still discussing the game's flaws.
@@DergonQuert I didn't say it was panned back then. I was there, after all. My personal review is that it was a fun game and a crappy rental. My point was that everything is beloved to someone. Some 14 year old is gonna do a 2 hour video about how great Forspoken is in about a decade.
@ejchelette5986 you said "any panned game was secretly brilliant all along" which certainly implies the consensus was always that it was bad. As for the suggestion your comment was meant to about differing opinions and not implying the only reason for this video is to be contrary for clicks... LOL
Some constructive criticism from a huge fan. That first example of music around 8:20 came on incredibly loud, and again at 14:50 the audio volume increased significantly where it really didn't need to. At 18:00 a clip of someone talking about the game came in with audio levels significantly higher than your voice track. You've got a great mix for most of the video, which unfortunately means these audio mixing issues stick out that much more. It can be quite jarring through headphones, or for people listening in a relaxed state.
People can be pissy and hateful when they talk about the game, but it'll never take away the enjoyment and memories of 10-year-old me playing it for hours, learning the way though each mansion, and ultimately earning every ending. Things in the modern age are easy to love/hate because the Internet prevents you from living in a vacuum - there is always another opinion and if you hear enough of them, you start to fall in line with them. It happens with games, cars, TV/movies, politics - everything. I have to wonder how many people that hate on SQ actually played it when it was new, in the world before game reviews and such. It'll always be one of my favorites, just like so many other games from NES-era. MY opinion influenced by childhood freedom to enjoy things without looking for flaws like we all seem to do in modern games.
Definitely true. I got this game when it was relatively new, and it was my favorite for a long time. I literally had no idea it was considered "bad" until I watched this video. I miss living in a vacuum sometimes.
I played it when it was new. Disliked it then, dislike it now. In a minute to minute sense the game just wasn't fun. As an adult I can appreciate what they were trying to do, but it falls short to me. I am happy that it's existence led to symphony of the night and many other games that fall into whatever you wish to call the genre. I can't say I hate Simon's quest. But I certainly can say I dislike it
A tip for those invisible pitfalls: just watch how the enemies move. They won't walk across pits either, so if they seemingly turn around on some random tile on the platform, that's where your pit is. No need to just throw holy water over and over and over.
First of all thank you for this video. Simon's Quest literally blew my mind as a kid. And still is a part of me today. From the very beginning the soundtracks, the atmosphere and the new designs compared to the 1st Castelvania ( which I finished multiple times before), made me feel that I was about to go through an epic and rough adventure exactly as said in your video. As a french kid with an english level below 0. I had absolutely no clue about what was going on and what I was supposed to do. And now knowing that the translation from Japanese was ( intentionally or not ) bad. It makes more sense or less I don't know. But that never affected my determination and the aura of the game to me. We finally played hours and hours with 2 of my good friends trying random things. And trust me or not. After about a year without internet or magazines helps we found one by one the unlikely tricks driving us to the end. Then guess what... Decades later I discovered and fell in love with what is my favorite band of all time. The masters of new death metal The Black Dahlia Murder. At the very first listening their music kicked my ass and made me drop my jaw. With hindsight I actually can tell that I felt the way I felt with Simon's Quest. A sort of epic, existential and profound feeling. After a few years listening and discovering the band I found out that the frontmen Trevor Strnad (RIP dude we miss you) was a huge fan of retrogaming and that Castelvania 2 ( among others but mainly ) inspired him a lot on how he wrote and composed his songs. All the stars aligned in my mind. Understanding why his music blew my mind right away. Taking me back more than 20 years ago. This game will dwell in me forever.
Hi Ragnar, i have been watching you ever since the forgotten gems were the series of the day. I always have wondered why they stopped, and i miss them. I'm honestly shocked they didn't get views! To me, they were the reason i subscribed.
That makes me happy to hear. Yeah, they kept brutally underperforming - people really liked them, but everytime I released one (except when it was a more well-known game that had a draw on its own, like Soul Reaver), it pulled down the channel's performance so drastically that it felt like all the progress made before was voided. Felt like Sisyphus. Kinda sad, because I love talking about the most obscure games out there. But I always tried to incorporate the spirit behind it into other videos.
@@RagnarRoxShow yes, I can definitely see the spirit continue. I should mention, it's not like I don't like everything you've done since. I'm always happy when a new video releases!
I played it as a kid, without any guide magazines or anything The English translation made it unplayable beyond a certain point. Like, “can not proceed further” unplayable.
Yep. I eventually ended up doing random stuff on different screens just trying to trigger something, anything lol. It did feel good finding something new but it sucked never knowing where it was relevant.
It's the one about "praying" at the cliff. My entire family gave up. I was about to give up but was a very stubborn child with lots of free time. I'm not sure what the original text said and maybe it was confusing too (it makes sense *AFTER* you understand what you have to do, but figuring that out is the tricky part.) All along the clue just meant kneel for a bit. Ironically they reused this mechanic in a few later games almost like they were thumbing their noses at everyone, lol. (Rondo of Blood has at least one point where you do this for a bonus item for example. And you aren't even told to do it. Mostly I did it by accident while waiting on enemies to move into place.)
@@NazoKiyoubinbou if it had been “praying” it would have been better, but it wasn’t. It just says to wait for a soul at Deborah cliff. Nothing in the game even tells you that wall is Deborah cliff, and nothing tells you you to kneel down and wait for a tornado
I was little when I played castlevania 2 for the first time, I cried and shut the game off when it cycled to night. A few years later, I tried it again and absolutely loved it, but didn't beat it. In 2002, when I was 18, I finally beat it and said, "That was a lot of fun." I didn't use a guide or the internet for anything. Playing it again on the castlevania collection, I had a blast. I think this game gets a lot of unearned hate, but that's just my opinion.
A game that is no fun is bad now matter in how many groundbreaking ways it sucks. As a kid with limited english skills, exploring this game was destilled frustrating cancer.
Just wanted to say thank you for chaptering the video. I appreciate when i can just focus on the video's content and skip the sponsor, since 99% its something I'll never be interested in. I loved this game so much as a kid and never understood all the hate it got.
The game's biggest issue is if you was a kid, when this was released in the 80s, was you are mostly likely not going to finish that game without nintendo power or word of mouth in school. I see you are playing an updated version. The clues given in that game were awful. To be fair, there is no reason to shit on the game anymore the updated verisons and the internet to help with the vague clues. But dude, seriously, the NPCS in the original was dogshit.
I played the heck out of Simon's Quest when it came out. Its crypticness and obtuseness were compelling. Even back then it felt like it was doing something completely different and important.
I think you make some fair points here, especially about the art direction, environments, and the power of exploration and RPG elements this game had; however, I think there are still many completely valid critiques in the (admittedly exaggerated) AVGN videos (his second review of it, as part of the 2009 "Castlevaniathon" is a far more serious look at the game) about Simon's Quest. E.g. the bosses are not really redeemable; no amount of trying to wiggle that one around is going to save it. The boss designs are all far less creative than those in the first game, there are fewer of them, and their sprites are terribly plain, some without anything in the way of meaningful animations, not to mention how bafflingly easy they are. I don't necessarily hold the original translation against it, though it was certainly not helpful. On the other hand, it has its virtues: the sense of scale is great, the backgrounds are cool with the huge, all-covering trees, and the towns and mansions all have much ground and multiple floors, but the journey itself doesn't quite equal the rest of the game. AVGN's point about the final area is correct. Compare walking through a place completely devoid of foes to the final stage of the first game and the now iconic march up the tall stairway, through the hall, and into Dracula's throne room makes the area in Simon's Quest look pretty dull. Further, between the two encounters, in Simon's Quest you have Dracula, who not only looks very much like a classic grim reaper, has no movement or animations, and no second form; while in the first game, Dracula has multiple forms, different attacks, and much more spectacle (as much as an 8-bit game could produce spectacle, that is). So is this game much better than the wider internet would have us believe? Absolutely. It has some very cool elements, excellent music, visually it's a gothic feast, and aside from the bosses, it has a varied cast of cool enemy sprites. The RPG elements are my jam, the various weapons and utility items are cool, and I liked the puzzles. The very fact that without Simon's Quest I would never have gotten to play Infernax, Symphony of the Night, Blasphemous and its sequel (probably) or even Demon's Souls, is a testament to its importance as a game, if nothing else. I think you are half right - everyone is wrong about some things they say about Simon's Quest, but it is a far, far better game than people think it is, especially today when it's not only been modified by various cool romhacks, it's been lovingly remade by Warmachine, who did a nice job in my opinion - like that remake or hate it, the game inspired someone to rebuild the game out of love of it, so that's a sign in favor of Simon's Quest if ever there was one. Finally, I will never, ever respect the term "search action" - Metroidvania may be terrible, but "search action" is about as dumb as "character action" in my view.
I love seeing more and more of THESE video analyses both SUPPORTING Simon Quest as an excellent (if a bit flawed) game of its era, AND confirming that it’s play format ended up leading to the heralded GREATEST game in the series, Symphony of the Night, the game that launched a genre still widely respected and appreciated today. Excellent discussion - specifically love the idea of a game that is unpolished having charm as a result. Sure, unbalanced games can hit difficulty spikes that turn the player off, but it’s a bit more reflective of LIFE- not every new chapter is going to be as steadily increased in difficulty as the last. Wonderful video!!
@@DergonQuert Still takes a while into the video to get to that acknowledgement (and even then doesn't properly disclose the important changes), I understand that he needs B roll footage to play in the background as well, but using stuff like the cutscenes and readable clues feels like foul play. Castlevania II is most certainly not a bad game, but this video puts it on a -far too high- pedestal.
@@hopeyouguess9850 He does raise a good point about the writing in the original JP release also being... misleading. However, that doesn't make it good or acceptable.
@@sleepyren_ True, but there was very little chance to discover the red crystal hint and interpret it correctly, and that's not even counting the blue crystal kneeling part. I mean, it's still a favorite of mine, but having to use a guide to finish a game (in the pre-Internet before-fore times) is a rough deal. Still... first Castlevania game I played (apart from the Tiger handheld version), so it gets love from me.
the critics made good points. the holy water mechanic was kind of lame, each of the mansions should have at the very least had a boss that was non-optional, the use of crystals to progress genuinely was cryptic, and the final castle/boss was a joke. still one of my favorites but it could've been so much more.
"and the final castle/boss was a joke" I agree the last boss was underwhelming, but I actually like what they did with the last town and castle. As you get closer to the end there's just this feeling of unease. The last town (closest to the castle) is almost entirely deserted, and the environment largely dead, having been consumed by Dracula's influence. Even the ruins of his castle has this wordless creepy factor that I true appreciate for it's world-building.
@@silverwolf761 Yes that part is really cool. If i recall correctly there's just one person in the town that you have to holy water down to the basement to get too, and they just say "let's live here together." Really creepy/cool!
I still get notifications because on a bloody tears upload here on youtube I pointed out that in the simons quest cover art, the whip is in the shape of a 2, that was over 10 years ago
Thank you Ragnar. I am a Castlevania fan who never tried Simon's Quest because I believed the discourse surrounding it and thought I wouldn't like it. And now you made me excited to finally play the game and expand my knowledge and experience about the series.
Always thought that classic Castlevania sucks massive balls (aside from bloodlines, that was more like contra with a whip). But Simon’s Quest was awesome. It was smart, it made me think. Not that many games did that back then.
Man what a great vid! Very impressive! Only thing I didn’t care for of Simons Quest is the crypticness of it…you’d never know by playing it to do certain things to advance (holding a gem in a certain part for a tornado to come or a lake to go down, throwing a stake at an orb) but it has its charm with great enemies (except for bosses lol) in a game that’s mandatory for Castlevania fans!
Simon's Quest is mediocre at best. I remember the first time I go to the final dungeon (which is entirely empty for some reason, save the final boss). I equipped the Golden Knife to be ready for the boss fight, saw the final boss, threw a knife, the boss got stunned, threw another knife, the boss was still stunned, threw more knives, and the boss died before it even had a chance to move. The exploration stuff was neat, the in-game clues were bad, and the boss AI was trash. At least the music and atmosphere were good.
Dracula's mansion is barren, because you decimated it in the first game, so there are monsters everywhere but the place you demolished, the last time. I honestly can't remember if that was in game, or the accompanying writing, but it was covered. As for the gold knife, versus any other weapon... it happens. Most people were not that prepared. I beat Link’s Awakening with the boomerang equipped, coincidentally. That turned the last boss into 1 single hit. Instead of, like, 18(?), or ~9 with arrows. I accidentally used the kryptonite, without realizing it. Leveling to the degree where the fight was simple generally meant that you were getting the worst ending, in SQ, unless you had it down to a science.
@@SeanJMay There's more than one weapon that can trivially stunlock Dracula and you don't have to go that far out of your way to pick one of them up. The endings don't make sense in game (the "best" ending has Dracula come to life, the "neutral" ending has Simon die, and the "bad" ending says "the people are free of Dracula's curse forever", though this is probably due to a botched translation as that good-sounding ending is delivered on a monochrome background.) there's nothing in the game to suggest that you're on a strict timer, and the timer even pauses in dungeons. Nintendo Power even did an entire 2 page Howard and Nester comic on the "kneel with red crystal at a dead end" requirement--probably to reduce the number of angry kids staring at a blank cliff. It's an ambitious game, to be sure, but it's still very, very clunky.
@@Psychokyuubi666 There were misleading clues in the original Japanese. The translation didn't help any, of course, but the clues were never meant to be 100% reliable.
@@onlylettersand0to9 Uhuh, I know that already. My fanservice of this series started over 24 - Years ago. All I was writing is that the translation in the U.S was mistranslated. I’m fully aware of the Villagers capable of lying to you during talking to them. Anyway to each their own my guy. However I’ll throw a nod to that game players hint tape someone I knew from School had 😊
Bought it on release and loved it; there was no hard and fast Castlevania lore or rules, so it was fun to have a new take on the first game. Thought the misinformation from the villagers was great, and loved the music and open world approach. Yes the crystals are a miss, but I loved this game growing up and took AVGN-style rants as entertainment. They didn’t change my appreciation of the game in the slightest - heck I really liked the last stage: silent, devoid of enemies, and lonely, it was different and creepy.
@@davidrevillii5353 I agree, and I would be lying if I didn't say that I really enjoyed AVGN when I was younger, like 15 years ago. Man, that is a lot of time...
THANK YOU!! I've been saying for years that Simon's Quest - while flawed - isn't as bad as the internet makes it out. I remember playing it as a kid and being frustrated, but as an adult I really appreciate all that it did. It may not be the first metroidvania - that honor belongs to "Vampire Killer" on MSX. But, it definitely laid a lot of the groundwork... That said, I didn't realize until your video that there was a level up system in Simon's Quest. At all. lol Honestly, if I were to remake Simon's Quest. The only thing I'd do, is make the hints slightly easier to understand. Add some difference to the textures of fake & breakable floors and walls. And an in-game map. Because the gameplay? That's still immaculate.
Simon's Quest was h - u - g - e in my childhood. I loved spending loads of time playing it. Egoraptor was dead wrong about the colours and the environments. Those backgrounds with the wooded horizons, pale skies and mountain vistas were beautiful!! (I still think they are, seeing them again in this video). It really gave a sense of you being deep in some Central/Eastern European wilderness, just filled with rugged terrain and hostile monsters. And the different colour schemes for towns and other regions not only helped locate you but could also be really evocative. Just look at the forest area with grey trees/rocks and orange canopies - it's like you're going through a dying woodland supernaturally afflicted with autumnal decay. And the final town before Dracula's castle that's just completely grey and almost entirely deserted... That's brilliant - the kind of environmental storytelling that games like Bloodborne are praised for. To Egoraptor's credit, he did actually do a great job of articulating the very real sense of you being up against some intangible force, as if the very world itself was trying to destroy you ("Silent Hill did the same God-damn thing and y'all love it so much!"). I felt that when I was a child, and was simply too young to comprehend and articulate what that feeling was. Several years ago, I went back and played it again for the first time since I was a kid. And I still loved it. I didn't find the clues as obfuscating as I remember people saying. I adore this game.
Saying that I love Simon’s Quest would be an understatement. It’s literally my muse most of the time lol, I draw about it a lot. It feels to me that the constant feeling of being lost is very intentional, especially in the context of the story and setting. Simon did win, but also kinda failed his last attempt at properly putting down Dracula. The curse itself is not only on him, but on the nearby towns as well. The closer you get to the castle, the more bleak and dangerous the game gets, the last town being nearly empty and grayscale. Simon hasn’t been out doing anything about it for 6 years according to the time skip and the townspeople are starting to hate him. The game’s story literally starts out with Simon going to the family graveyard to contemplate his life, perhaps he has tried to break the curse and everything so far has failed, or maybe he hasn’t out of shame or simply not knowing he’s cursed and not just sick, but from the first two lines of the story we know our protagonist is near death, at the end of his wits, and might have given up had a ghost woman not tell him to do something. That’s intense!!! And the plot past this point is about finding and carrying around pieces of a deadman, slowly rotting alive, and desperately trying to get some directions before your time runs out. Oh yeah! The whole game is basically timed! Simon is actively trying to beat a clock! I really think some of the vagueness of the game is meant to make you feel like you’re wasting precious time, to panic you a little, especially when you get lost or hit a dead end and realize you’ve thrown away a whole day. I also love the contrast of washed out color palettes in the day time and high contrast neon fever dreamy color palettes at night. And the fact the game gets emptier the closer you get to the end with the castle itself being practically a liminal space is unnerving!!! This game I think it’s supposed to unsettle, it feels more horror focused than other classicvanias, and I love it so much for that. And oh my god it intrigues me so much that the text for each of the endings are all nearly interchangeable eulogies for Simon while the song requiem plays, I could just go on about what the endings might mean, but that’d be way to long for one comment lol. Is it perfect? No, but I don’t expect perfection from any game and it’s still damn good. One of my favorite games of all time for sure :3.
The first game had you destroy Drac and his castle. In all fairness, what else could they do? They took a chance and expanded the world. You went out into the land and towns. It felt gothic and immersive. Flawed sure, but they had to start somewhere. I always found it petty that people would bash something in hindsight when back in the day my friends and I had fun with it. And why? Because we had no other choices. We weren't spoiled with twenty different systems or exclusives only from Japan which are now available but impossible to obtain back in the 80's.
Sir, you're making me finally pull Simon's Quest out of the shelf and give it a spin. I've been reluctant in the past out of the impression that it's nigh impossible to make progress without resorting to a guide, which is something that I don't enjoy. How true is that? Is it really 100% impossible to beat the game without a guide?
@@PurifyWithLight Well, I do know that one because it has sort of become a meme at this point haha. I was wondering if there were other instances of that level of obscurity elsewhere in the game
Thank you for making this! I never really watched RUclips video essays on anything until the pandemic so I totally missed the early RUclipsr discourse on Simon’s Quest. This was one of my favorite games as a kid, up there with Zelda and Mario Bros 3 and Final Fantasy. So when I found out a few years ago people hated it I was really surprised.
Funnily enough, a lot of movie reviewers like nostalgia critic or cinema sins are utter bs in the same way. They drag movies through the mud with nitpicks, and criticisms that are simply untrue but a large audience believes them. And suddenly people act like a lot of the movies we liked back in the day are actually utter shit.
I can happily and honestly say that I never agreed with AVGN and detractors of Simon's Quest. This game was one of the first couple of video games I ever played, and I always liked it for it's action, music and graphics. The only thing that frustrated me was how damn hard it was to figure out how to progress in it. It took me years to finally beat it, because back then I didn't have internet access or walkthroughs readily available, and my english skills weren't that great at the time either, so clues from villagers in the game didn't help me all that much. A lot of the puzzles and riddles I figured out by dumb luck and trial and error. Like that part where you come to an impassable big lake, and in one playthrough I accidentally ducked at that spot and revealed the hidden path under it. My mind was completely blown at that moment. 😆
Ngl I'm only 27 minutes into the video and I wish you spent more time elaborating on why the ideas this game tried are good and well executed instead of complaining that other content creators are wrong. I have not played Dark Sould man just saying "dark souls did it and people like that one!" is not enough to make me understand your point
The comparison with Dark Souls is about how it handles its open world and its inherent criptycness. On the other hands most of the important points on the game are explained, the day night cycle, the upgrade system, the exploration focus, etc. I don't know what you feel 'unexplained'
Thank you for making this and defending the good name of Castlevania 2. I love this game, and thank you for highlighting all of the good this game did for the industry.
The game is grindy, cryptic, slow paced, and the boss fights are awful. The game still has a lot to offer but unless you are a hardcore castlevania fan and if you play this and find yourself not having fun within the first 10 mins. Turn it off and jump over to 3.
I'm so glad to hear a more nuanced view of this game. I never finished the game as a kid, probably because of the kneeling by the cliff thing. I still enjoyed it though. When the more accurate translation dropped I couldn't get enough of the game. The only real complaint I have is the lack of fun bosses. I would love to see a remake in the style of the GBA-games.
I'm old. I've played this as a kid when it was new. The big problem with Castlevania 2 is a few very esoteric puzzles (usually involving equipping an orb and crouching) that are harder than usual thanks to the bad translation. But I don't remember anyone hating the game back in the day since in those days people didn't expect to finish every game they buy. "Finishing a game" was a new thing at the time so those puzzles that could end most people's journey weren't that big of a deal. Of course, a password was passed down from kid to kid that could take you straight to Dracula and that's how I saw the ending. I liked this game as much as the first because I couldn't get far enough in either one, for very different reasons (I didn't own either but traded games with friends). I know you mention this in your video but I wrote this halfway through the video. The name "MetroidVania" was coined by "Sharkey" originally to describe Castlevania games like SotN and CotM. Eventually Jeremy Parish used it to describe the genre. I'm a huge nerd.
Sorry to break it to you, bucko, but I was born in 1981 and I got this game as an Easter gift. Everyone I knew had the first Castlevania so I just played it at their houses, and I thought "oh boy here's the one I'll have, and I can show them." Trust me, EVERYONE HATED THAT GAME. Oh sure, it's decently fun to walk around and fight monsters, but no one wanted to play this one if they had any option because of how difficult it was to make any progress in it. You want to know how 90% of the cart's owners played it? We'd play it like Ghostbusters just for the fun of the mechanics for a few minutes, then switch it off when bored. It was much like Rambo and Willow, you can run around and have some fun but trying to get anywhere is pointless because the game is just ridiculous. So we'd use the code in Nintendo Power to load the end of the game, we'd walk through a mostly empty path to the unfinished final boss, kill him the easiest way, and call it a day. Castlevania 3 put away any reason anyone had except the cool music and graphics. You can believe anything you want, that the legends aren't true, the monster can't be as horrible as we old timers say. But I know better. I was there. The AVGN video didn't create a cultural perception, you've got it backwards. It resonated because it represented how so many of us actually felt.
This is just plain wrong. Everyone I knew as a kid loved the game, and Simon's Quest was one of the games talked about in the schoolyard about hints and just how cool the game was. Maybe you were in a pocket of people that hated the game, but that pocket was far from the norm. As one old timer to another, I was also there, and your take is wrong.
@@Suprentus I'm going to have to assume your friends were Metroid and D&D type super nerds, the graph paper and math types. We played outside most of the time, the normal kids. And let me tell you, that pattern continued through the entire lifespan of the NES. You're talking about it like it was Zelda II, and it was not. It was overly cryptic, poorly translated, had as confusing a map as Friday the 13th, and so even though we had a guide in Nintendo Power, it was just not worth the hassle for most people to bother to play it. There were plenty of difficult games that people DID talk about and trade secrets for, but Castlevania II was absolutely not one of them. If you want to know why the game is actually like it is, you really have to examine Vampire Killer on the MSX, and here's a video which does that. Seeing as I owned the game and none of my friends ever did, nor wanted to play mine, yet 1 and 3 were both very popular and often traded around, I have actual market data supporting my statements. You're welcome to try and further justify your position as somehow more indicative of the wider market, but given the way most people played these games was not with a pen and paper or even reading the instructions, I expect to highly doubt your evidence. ruclips.net/video/peVgerhXJlU/видео.html
@@fusionspace175 What a bizarre response. You talk as if you're still stuck in your school days with jocks vs nerds. I don't know why you'd assume my friends and I were super nerds, or what that even has to do with anything. Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if you think it's still a flex today that you took Stacey to prom back then. As for the substance of your argument, "overly cryptic" didn't really factor into enjoyment. If you recall, the market was different back then. A lot of NES games could take weeks, if not months, to complete. Some did it through difficulty, others did it by being cryptic. Zelda I was the perfect example of the latter. For some games, figuring them out was part of the experience. You may look back on it with AVGN eyes, but I don't think you remember those days as well as you think you do. Also, I'm wondering how "actual market data" supports the statement that your friends hated Simon's Quest and that my friends were just D&D super nerds. I'm now wondering what you think market data is, and what market data could even exist to support either your anecdotes or the claim that kids didn't trade secrets about Simon's Quest. I also call bullshit on your claim that most people played NES games without reading instructions, as many NES games only made sense after reading instructions. I also don't see the point in linking a video that's over 7 hours about Castlevania right after bragging to me that you play outside and don't read guides or instructions. You sound like a redditor.
@@Suprentus You did need a decidedly more adventurous demeanor to like Simon's Quest at the time. It was a grossly esoteric game that did not ignite the burning heart like Castlevania and Dracula's Curse did. No action-oriented kid could stand it. That dichotomy hasn't changed to this day. Monster Hunter World vs Monster Hunter Rise fans are trapped in the exact same adventure/immersion vs action/achievement war and they're much more vile against each other than we middle aged Castleboomers could ever be.
@@Stroggoii I agree you need a more adventurous demeanor to enjoy a game with adventure, but it's not a dichotomy that you can either only like adventure or action. You say no action-oriented kid could stand it, but I'm proof you could. I loved the entire Castlevania NES trilogy. You only have to look at other comments here to see your premise isn't true as well. I also don't care about Monster Hunter. It never appealed to me. A better (if overused) comparison of adventure/immersion vs action/achievement blend (not war) would be Dark Souls.
How old are you? Because I was 10 when this came out and was super disappointed when it wasn't like the first one and I kept getting lost and didn't know where to go or what to do next. I think it's more like you enjoyed it so you've convinced yourself you're right and others were wrong. This was a decisive game back then no matter how much you pretend the hate is only RUclips manufactured.
Castlevania 2 was one of the first NES games (and the only Castlevania game) that I owned - in fact I still have the cart somewhere. I really loved it for all the reasons you mentioned, and even dressed up as Simon Belmont (my mom sewed me the red outfit) in elementary school for Halloween. As a lover of the Souls series, it really does feel proto-Souls in many ways, from the melancholy crumbling atmosphere to the cryptic dialogue. It was, admittedly, a game that pretty much required Nintendo Power to figure out in the day, but as someone who beat the game at probably 8 or 9 years old, its complexity is way overblown. I also remember that original AVGN review, and how it struck me less as an indictment of Simon's Quest specifically, and more as that sort of phenomenon with many old Nintendo games where you might rent them, not have a manual, and have no internet or any other way to figure out what was going on, and often as a kid not understanding why, only to realize later as an adult that it was the designers' (or perhaps in this case the localizers') fault and not your own. I've returned to Castlevania 2 a couple of times in the ensuing years and always find it enjoyable to play, and it honestly remains my favorite of the NES Castlevanias.
So, let me get this straight, you honestly believe this game was universally beloved until one guy's low-quality six-minute review video in 2004 that even he says was half-assed magically changed everyone's opinion overnight. And also that Arin Hanson just outright lied about his opinion of it for the sake of going along with that one guy. And also also that when James Rolfe reviews a game, it never had a poor reputation before and he doesn't mean a word of what he says as AVGN (who embodies an exaggeration, not a complete fabrication, of his thoughts on the games, mind you), and his later, better revisits of Simon's Quest are also just bunches of lies. Okay. Oh, and real cool of you to lump Angry Joe in with people like Irate Gamer and just collectively dump on RUclips game reviewers for, I dunno, having the audacity to make their critiques humorous and interesting to watch, apparently.
I seem to have a special place in my heart for black sheep, and I've loved Simon's Quest from NP issue 2 on (the cover-spawned outrage delights me, almost as much as Bionic Commando's ending). Sometimes the oddities of translation and inscrutable design decisions are held up as flaws, but (as mentioned here) we all shared the challenges with solemn determination and there was something amazing in being the one to bring the newly deciphered secrets to the playground. It's truly a classic and anyone who says otherwise is sadly misinformed.
@@TheMilhouseExperience I would say Prince of Persia was more revolutionary given the time it was made... by one guy. It also operated on weaker machines but with better animation and style. There's a good book on it.
Hm... I don't feel you gave an accurate/fair assessment of Simon's Quest, and I've got a bit of a mouthful on why. Let's start with where we agree. First. I think your callout on Egoraptor's palette critiques are fair. Castlevania 1 has a lot of messy looking scenery, and at its worst it's hard to tell what you're even looking at. Castlevania 2 has a lot more visual clarity on the whole, and Simon does tend to be easier to see against the various backgrounds. Yes, 2's palettes are more desaturated and drab, but I kinda feel like that fits the game's atmosphere since it's meant to be a little... dreary and have this sense of imminent death and dread. I think I would still say CV1 looks better on average, but I understand this point isn't as binary as Egoraptor made it out to be. Second. I agree with your sentiment that the game was held back by an incorrect translation and that we prolly should apply a patch to experience the game the way it was intended. I also think that the genuine _intended_ lies are neat and fitting of a "Search Action" game. I don't mind that I have to sort truth from fiction, and I think if the player applies enough skepticism and common sense, they can discern what hints are true and which ones aren't. I think this is a genuinely interesting aspect of the game that I don't see done often enough elsewhere. Third. I can agree wholeheartedly that the game is extremely influential. As your Iga (translated) quote points out, Symphony of the Night wouldn't have been possible without CV2 establishing that Castlevania _could_ go in a more "Search Action" sort of direction. There's also the music from the game getting covered, the frequent references to the various elements in this game, and and the lore it established for the franchise. All of that is pretty agreeable. Now let's talk where we disagree. Firstly. I don't think Castlevania II was the first game of its kind to do the 2D exploration combat-focused RPG elements. I think Zelda II would be the first, and that was released in January 1987 (in Japan). Several months before Simon's Quest. It's worth noting that Igarashi - when making Symphony of the Night - mentioned that his team was thinking more "Zelda" than "Metroid", so I think this lends credence to Zelda II being the first of this kind of game, even if Simon's Quest was a big influence. Second. The grinding. You mention that if you simply go the intended path, you should have enough money to buy anything you need without having to slow down and grind. I'm pretty sure that is false. The town you spawn in has both the White Crystal and the Holy Water. Both are required progression items (Holy Water is not immediately necessary, but it DOES allow you to get the hint to hit Orbs with Stakes). You don't start out with enough money to buy both, so unless you have some route that I'm not aware of, you will _need_ to grind then walk back. The grinding issue is further exasperated when you consider that you lose a lot of money when you get a game over, which is definitely going to happen to less skilled/knowledgeable players. So with that in mind, let's talk about the time grinding actually takes. You mentioned it only takes 5 - 7 minutes. Let's assume for the sake of argument that is true (I haven't confirmed the numbers myself, and I assume you've played CV2 more recently than I). That _sounds_ like a small number until you consider the length and genre of the game you're playing. Cutting out the grinding, I'd estimate CV2 is only slightly longer than CV1, which you estimated was around 30 minutes to beat. That means that 5 - 7 minutes is actually a pretty significant portion of gameplay. Considering you might need to grind more than once to get necessary items, that means grinding takes up a pretty significant ratio of gameplay. So alright. You might be asking. Why does Final Fantasy and Dragon's Quest get a pass for grinding, but Simon's Quest doesn't? Well, for me personally, I don't like either of those games for that very reason, but I also think jRPGs don't have the same goals that an action game does. jRPGs tend to be more leisurely and want you to take your time. That's probably why people take such an issue with the grinding in Simon's Quest; It's an action game where you spend a lot of time doing not-very-actiony things. Last thing... This idea that the gullible masses were misled into hating CV2 thanks to a narrative pushed by a few select content creators is false and comes off as a bit condescending. The game got pretty mid reviews long before the AVGN and Egoraptor made their videos on the game. Contemporary professional critics at the time didn't like it very much (IE: Famitsu gave it a 28/40), and if you look at old GameFaqs reviews prior to AVGN, they tended to give it 7s and 8s with the occasional 3 or so. Not _terrible_, but the general consensus wasn't exactly enthusiastic either, and in most people's eyes a 7 out of 10 or lower may as well be "bad game". I think a more reasonable argument would be that the game already had a pretty mediocre reception, and that the AVGN and Egoraptor merely gave clarity to people's thoughts and magnified the issues that were already there to begin with. On that note... I get wanting to push back on harmful false narratives (3D Sonic being terrible is a narrative I wish could be expunged), but to me it feels like you are downplaying/ignoring the game's flaws too hard in an attempt to rehabilitate its image. You make very little mention of the actual level design or enemy placement - two very big issues that exist even if you were to fix everything else - and you say things like the bosses are trivial "with the right equipment", which feels a bit sneaky and dishonest, since it suggests going in without the right equipment makes them an actual challenge. With the exception of Dracula, the bosses are almost always trivial even without the "right equipment". Even when they aren't trivial, they are still boring. All in all, the video is well made, but I don't think the picture it paints of Simon's Quest is very honest. To me personally, I think Simon's Quest should be respected for the influence and legacy it had on gaming, but left in the past as a pivotal experiment that led to much better games in the future.
It wasn't influencers and memes that soured me into this game. It was playing it the way it wanted me to, running like a headless chicken on the absurdly esoteric advice of hobos and hidden books, throwing holy water at every other brick to uncover secret walls and avoid invisible pitfalls. What for? The bad ending. I love Circle of the Moon, the genre itself is not the issue, the shift is. I understand everyone who was resistant to Simon's Quest and Symphony of the Night on release. Castlevania was a milestone in gaming, having it followed by this was incredibly disheartening. Specially seeing so many other developers, eventually including Konami themselves, fail to scratch the classic Castlevania itch. Giving up on the intentionality of movement and the cruel fairness in level design that made the original game worth emulating is giving up the sensation of playing at the edge of hope and despair that made this Universal Horror rock opera fever dream a gothic masterpiece.
11:40 Don't you mean Vampire Killer on the MSX2? 16:04 Literally anything after the first one that's considered a sequel to something makes it a franchise. This is such a moot point. 18:10 Dude, you start with 50 hearts and you need better gear to combat the tougher enemies that come out at night. Not to mention that you get more health and take less damage, so grinding is your best option. Also, you should probably mention how you only get points depending on where you're at on the map. If you grind in the beginning area and get to level 1, you can't get anymore points. You can only get more points by going to the areas that lead to the next mansion. 18:59 It may not be required, but it's recommended because it will make it easier. You can grind in mansions since being inside a building freezes the timer. 23:29 "It subverted my expectations!" 27:10 Yeah, I'm not blaming RUclipsrs for being the primary reason why everyone thinks the game sucks. Anyone who does this, I'm immediately assuming that you're coping and insecure. 36:42 This is not the original text in the game, this is a translation by a third party. The original text is "Hold a red crystal in front of Deborah cliff and wait for a wind." strategywiki.org/wiki/Castlevania_II:_Simon%27s_Quest/Mistranslations_and_re-translation
The problem with it is lack of any difficulty, lack of any kind of bosses beyond 1 which can be easily stun locked, the awful day night transitions, so many screens of nothing, so many empty castles of nothing. The problems aren't that it was on NES soul they couldn't but just that they didn't for whatever reason. It was never a bad game, its an extremely uninteresting game
I remember playing Simon's Quest before I had internet, and when I saw Egoraptor's review, that's when I truly learned that not all sources on the internet can be trusted.
When Simon's Quest came out I was in first grade and my parents would occasionally rent an NES over the weekend. I absolutely loved Simon's Quest even though it was too hard for me to get very far. I loved the open-endedness. I would draw pictures of it between playing. I went to school one day and a kid I looked up to who was a fifth grader told me "Simon's Quest Sucks" but could not tell me why. It was a common sentiment at the time and I still don't know why to this day. I think looking back it may be because it had words to read.
19:03 its really strange how so many games get a reputation as a grindfest when youd naturally get the right amount of experience through just playing normally Like less old rpgs than youd think are actually like this, though i cannot speak for dragon quest and final fantasy themselves as someone not that into either
Dragon Quest was really bad about needing to grind in the old days, but by 4 it wasn't horrid. NES Final Fantasies always had "points" where you had to grind a little to go foreward reasonably but they were never grind fests. Well unless the bugs made things hard *glares at FF1*.
I feel like the old school rpgs are hit hard with a grinding reputation they don't generally deserve due to the Marsh Cave in ff1. It's early on in the game so most people get there, and the dungeon is too big, probably with the intention that you'll accept not finding everything. But commonly, players will stop and grind until they can somewhat comfortably explore and get all the treasure in the Marsh Cave... .... And then they are consistently overlevelled and not really threatened by anything for the rest of their run, maybe not counting the final boss and a specific optional boss.
I have no integrity, if a beautiful youtube essayist tells me something, I'll unquestionably agree with them. Btw you're right, gorgeous, Castlevania 2 really * IS * a misunderstood gem.
Aww shucks, the video got released a bit too late for me to watch it out by the lake today. :/ Will most definitely give it a full watch tomorrow though, and load up with some beer and whisky for the occasion.
Whenever I play this I think of Blondie's "Heart of Glass", but change the lyrics= "I once drank blood, it wasn't so bad. Soon found out, I had the heart of Vlad..."
I want to start off by saying that this was a nicely edited video and also that I do enjoy Simon's Quest. Unfortunately, this video does hardly anything whatsoever to make a strong case for the game. Everything covered in this video is all based on concepts and hand-waving things away. There is next to nothing in terms of HOW these things were implemented. Keep in mind, I'm on your side. Please do not inject a harsh tone into my words because this comment isn't out of anger, it's based on wanting to give Simon's Quest the best chance it can get. So, there are unfortunately barely any arguments made within this video to prove your point. From what I gather, the point of the video is to prove that the game is good, but WHERE is the section about...playing the game? Not what the game has, not what ideas went into it, not the goal that Konami was going for, but how it feels to play through it. We have the music section, which consists of covers of Bloody Tears and no dedicated section to the various tracks within the game. Instead, we're being told the music is great (of which I agree), without being given proof of the tracks within the game itself. Putting covers of a single track from the OST doesn't prove your point, unfortunately. We have the section where the video attempts to debunk criticisms of the game itself. Ok, now we're talking! Wait...how many minutes was spent on the color of Simon? Couldn't that time have been used to, I don't know, talk about how the game plays? There's a little bit about grinding for 5 minutes at the start of the game, then there's the issue with the translation, which I will cover in another paragraph. Where's the information about the mansions? About the bosses being too easy (especially Dracula, which was one of AVGN's complaints about the game)? About having to liberally use the holy water to fumble around the mansions (another common criticism.) About the water section with the moving blocks where the player has to figure out the proper way to jump just for that particular section (another criticism I've seen)? I hope you can understand my frustration as I watch this and what you decide to cherry pick to defend is what color clothing Simon is wearing, which has nothing to do with the actual game itself or how it plays. Even defending the grind doesn't do anything to help prove that the gameplay is good. The answer to the townspeople giving obtuse hints (somewhat due to translation errors) is to patch the game...which does absolutely nothing to help the case that the original NES version is good. Your answer cannot be "get a better version of it" to prove that it isn't bad. The part with the translation is something that was not handled well at all. Totally fine to point out that some of the nonsense that the NPCs had to say was actually a 1:1 translation of what gamers in Japan also got. However, gamers in Japan didn't get obtuse riddles mixed in with their NPC nonsense lines. When you have both, what you now are stuck with is trying to figure out which NPCs had something worth saying, then trying to figure out what the thing that was worth saying actually meant. The people that love this game are people that have already stumbled through the game and know what they're doing now (like myself.) Where is the section dedicated to this being one of the first games to have a time sensitive ending? Wherein how long it takes the player to beat the game affects which ending they get? Why is there no information that being within the mansions freezes time within the game world, so the player is free to grind til their heart's content while being in a mansion, not having to worry about it counting against their time for the best ending? Hell, where IS the section dedicated to the mansions? A Simon's Quest video without covering the mansions is like a Zelda II video without covering the palaces. Not even a nod to what the point of the game even is, which is to traverse the world in search of said mansions, explore them to find an orb that you hit with an oak stake in order to grab pieces of Dracula in order to revive him and destroy him along with the curse he put onto Simon. Again, there's nothing in here about what it's like to play the game. Instead, it's all about what ideas went into the game. Simon's Quest was the first Castlevania to launch this series into the Search Action genre, true. Awesome. How well was it implemented? For example: how is the backtracking? Simon's Quest was one of the first games to have a day/night cycle. Cool. How well was it implemented? Simon's Quest has an inventory system. Great. How well was it implemented? For example: is there bloat? You can start to see how this video was really just based on ideas/concepts and not on what it's like to actually play the game, which is what disappoints me the most. I'm actually in an odd camp where I find Symphony of the Night to be sluggish and boring, but I absolutely enjoy playing Simon's Quest. So even after watching this entire video, I ask you this: what, in this video, proves that everyone* is wrong? The way I see it, nobody thought Simon's Quest was a bad idea. AVGN actually thought it was a cool idea, very Zelda-like. The issue people have is it's not a good game to play. This video does nothing to refute that, in its almost hour-long runtime. Having a good concept does not mean having a good game.
Simon's Quest was one of the first games i played after i got my nes in 1990. Its hard to remember my first impression of it, but I'll try. 1. I thought it could have been a longer game. 2. I thought it was a little too easy. (I finished it before learning it had multiple endings in only a weekend) 3. I hated waiting on the day-night transitions of slow print text. Other than this, I liked the different direction it had taken. Later, i hacked this title fixing a lot of issues like the people giving you misleading hints, the day night text issue. (If you are interested in playing it i called it castlevania ii day night hack, uploaded to zophar's domain years ago) Long story short i sort of became obsessed with Simon's Quest and still love it for what it was.
I've always enjoyed Simon's Quest. There's so many things about the game that made it stand out. The open exploration, the monsters, the characters. It felt like a fleshed out world we were immersed in at the time. It's too bad that it got such a bad rap years later. Personally, I think Simon's Quest is the quintessential Speedrunner's wet dream since it also challenges the player to complete the story in the quickest time possible to achieve the best ending. Granted, the challenge rating was ramped up when ported to the US. Great video. I hope that more gamers can appreciate what Simon's Quest brought to the table and perhaps enjoy it like I did when I was younger. :)
The big reason people on the internet disliked Simon’s Quest is that they weren’t playing it on original hardware on a CRT. Emulating the game had a weird drawback where it cut part of the screen off. On original hardware and a CRT, you could see the tip of the blocks under the fake lake indicating there was something down there. Leading to you naturally crouching down at the edge, and if you had the blue crystal equipped you would start the animation to reveal the hidden staircase. That doesn’t happen on modern hardware. The lake looks like every other lake in the game. Crucial detail is missing.
I played it on a 32" RCA a few times back then. It seems to me emulators show more not less. But old CRTs with a real NES certainly have less lag and better experience.
Great timing. I just started playing Simon's Quest and already found out, that one has to finish it in under one (in game) week to see the good ending. Your video was a great reinforcement of my good first impressions of the game. Thanx for that!
Dude same!!! I’ve always felt the Halloween series should’ve been an anthology past 3 with other different Halloween stories, maybe keeping the theme of masks throughout. Michael’s story feels completed in the first two movies to me.
@@chibishortdeath Thats why im so sad that people prefer to watch anabel part 22 and Paranormal Activity part 50 instead of demanding more movies like Trick 'r Treat or scary stories to tell in the dark. Perfect movies? No. AMAZING movies to watch on halloween? Fuck Yes. I love so much the anthology trope on halloween movies.
Check out Rocket Money for free: RocketMoney.com/ragnarrox #rocketmoney #personalfinance
You should play infernax it's pretty similar to this game and zelda 2 it's to this game what tunic is to the first zelda
now do the same for 64
I actually picked up and beat this game for the first time ever after watching this yesterday. All I one sitting. First time playing the game too.
Thx for the inspiration Ragnar 💜
I’d like to point out the irony in ribbing on all of the angry RUclipsrs that followed AVGN’s example, while making The 1,396,465 video about how AVGN ruined game reviews
@@jarrellfamily1422 If you haven't... try the Konami code on that.
I have a funny story about Castlevania 2: I was a kid living in Riverside, California with my parents and was on the final boss, (Dracula), and he was basically impossible! The game was brand new so there was no internet to look for clues back then. My mom came in to the room to tell me to get ready for church and saw that I was getting frustrated, so she said to look for clues in the instruction manual. Keep in mind my mom knew absolutely NOTHING about video games, and still doesn't. I was being a spoiled, bratty kid and rolled my eyes, basically saying something like, "ya ya mom, the instruction manual is not going to tell me how to beat this IMPOSSIBLE boss!!!" But she confidentially, and somewhat naively started going through the NES instruction manual for the game and came across the item description section. Upon looking at the description for the "Golden Knife", (or maybe it was "Golden Dagger"; I can't remember) she started reading from the manual, "contains a mysterious power." She basically said with excitement, "It says here that the Golden Knife has mysterious power! I bet the mysterious power is that it can beat Dracula!" But I wasn't hearing any of it because what does she know about video games! I was just getting more and more frustrated. Finally she kept suggesting it enough where I just said I would do it so that she would stop bugging me about it and I could show her that she is wrong. Well, the Golden Knife killed Dracula in one hit!!!! I was in complete shock; I couldn't even respond. All I could do was stare at the screen in total disbelief, feeling like a total jack@$$. My mom just had a smug smile on her face and said something to the effect of, "see, your mom knows best." Then she walked out of the room very satisfied at my total ego defeat. I never questioned her mom wisdom again. It's one of my favorite memories. =D
Mom's can still be wrong.
*note: Casey Antony
I think you might be slightly misremembering that event. The golden knife does 15 damage, same as the flame whip, but it also stuns enemies at the use of hearts for ammo. It's an alternative for the sacred flame, which was notorious for stunlocking bosses. The Golden knife wouldn't instantly kill Dracula unless you had already damaged him to the point where he only had 15 hps or less. IIRC it takes about 4 or 5 knives if that's all you use to finish him, but he will be stunlocked if you spam him with them.
@@SomeCanine You're right. I might be misremembering it, but I honestly remember it killing him instantly. Maybe it just stunned him and I whipped the rest of his hp away.
@@SomeCanine Just think though stun locking a boss could usually be the difference in the end. Once I learned that the knife could do that I always attempted to get it asap to bail myself out of tough situations.
Thanks for sharing your story but yeah Dracula is kinda of a joke in C2.
Just spam holy water, kill him with 5 shots from the gold dagger. Even still he isn’t that hard without those methods.
The build up is so good for this fight and it was such a let down.
I can't help but be charmed by the line "What a horrible night to have a curse."
It’s vaguely nonsensical but definitely charming in its brevity. And like, would ANY night be kinda horrible to have a curse? So glad these bad translations exist.
Dun dun dun DUN dun dun...
@@ASSLEVANIA being a werewolf or a vampire are pretty sweet curses
@Broomer52 yeah but you gotta give up garlic bread
@@ASSLEVANIAwell I guess a night where you have to storm Dracula's castle is particularly bad, curse-wise
im reminded of the opening minute from when the grumps did their lets play of simons quest:
Danny: "welcome to Simon's Quest! The game I loved as a child, and Arin shit on as an adult!"
nuff said lol
Arin Hanson has always come across as very arrogant and narcissistic to me.
@@slushyglue9167A dude whose pen name literally starts with the word "ego"? You don't say.
@@slushyglue9167 Arrogant? Certainly. Opinionated? A bit ya, but I've never seen him fall into the pit of narcissist.
At the time, I recall Zelda 2, Mario 2, and even Castlevania 2 as being very popular games. I personally prefer all three of these to their predecessors.
All three could also use a little bit of polish, Castlevania 2 in particular really needs bosses in those castles. But there have been quite a few remake projects for Zelda 2, I wonder why nobody has ever bothered to do the same with Simon's Quest?
@slushyglue9167 The dude has ADHD and bad habit of putting his foot in his mouth, but narcissist is stretching it.
I was born the same year as Castlevania first released so when you said it's nearly 4 decades old, that did major emotional damage
I know right, I'm 2 years behind( ahead '88?) Ya
I was born the same year the original Ghostbusters came out....
Don't feel so bad. I was born before the first game in '87. I remember renting this when it was brand new from the video store.
I know your pain, friend. I'm 37 next month. Who hit the fast forward button on the flow of time, I want words with them.
NINTENDO: Mario is officially 37 years old :)
ME, BORN THE SAME YEAR AS DONKEY KONG: No he's fucking not
Simon's Quest features a time limit, in which Simon must remove the cures within seven days in order to get the good ending. Wasting the players time to gather hearts and buy upgrades is very much the point, the player is going to need to budget their time and find an optimal route through the game if they want to clear it within that 7 day time limit. For all the problems that Simon's Quest has, using the temptation of grinding to eat away at the limited time the player has to complete the game was an absolute stroke of genius.
When the game was released people didn't know there were different endings. I remember when the equivalent of Nintendo Power in my country stated they heard a rumour that there are different endings in the game and they were investigating it.
I never understood this as a kid. That actually is brilliant
That's nice and all, but that's only really useful for later playthroughs once you realize, of ever, that there's multiple endings to begin with. I know that nowadays it's immensely easy to know that beforehand, but if I were a kid in 87 playing this, I doubt that'd be on the top of my list of things to really think about.
Castlevania II was and still is my favorite Castlevania game.
But the timer doesn't advance while you're in a mansion or house, so you can grind in the mansions as much as you want and still get the good ending.
In James Rolfe’s (AVGN) latest video, he states that he replayed Simon’s Quest since and no longer dislikes it.
Pretty sure he didn't say that, but he did play a fan hack awhile ago that fixed all the game's problems and said how much of an improvement it was.
He did not say that he likes it, he just said it wasn't that bad, also simon's quest is a bad and flawed game i find really weird how there are people that defend it
I will defend Simon's Quest because it is actually good and fun. You just need a walkthrough on hand
@@wygolvillage2637 Or a retranslation that doesn't send you looking for ducks in cemetaries and gives you culinary advice instead of what the laurel does.
(The thing is that the duck makes SENSE if you know japanese slang because you're a Farfetch'd nerd: you're looking for a _sucker_ -- a duck in Japanese can be slang for an easy mark.)
my mom has told me when I was a wee bab she and my dad would put me between them as they couch co-op'd Simon's Quest lol
Cool parents
Family goals fr
Wow, that's awesome!
Castlevania 2 Simon's Quest has a special place in my heart.
Your parents are awesome! ❤
My biggest problem is while the world before reaching the dungeon is swell enough the dungeons themselves are underwhelming and the bosses seem unfinished.
I do like the concept of Simon quest and maybe an other game that pushes the idea even further.
There's a Castlevania fangame called Castlevania: The Lecarde Chronicles 2 that does feel like a more fully-realized version of Simon's Quest.
Infernax is what you're looking for.
@@RiflemanIII I mean there is also Castlevania Chronicles II - Simons Quest Fangame that's a straight up upgrade of Simon's quest.
I can't remember the bosses except for the Grim Reaper that was similar to the first game's. And I can't remember much at all about the dungeons, either. This is why I say this game wasn't actually fun to play. It had objectives, and sense of accomplishment, but it was not fun in the moment like a Mario game for instance. Games like this which worked better for the NES had more varied weapons and game play: Mario 3, Zelda 1 and 2, Blaster Master, Mega Man. They also allowed for more expressive movement.
@@-taz- "I can't remember the bosses except for the Grim Reaper" That's probably because you could literally walk straight through their fights and not engage with them at all.
Here's the thing about the original AVGN review. As someone who grew up loving Simon's Quest, I saw the review as a purposely playful bash at the frustrations of a beloved game. I even remember seeing James Rolfe having said as much, though I think it's been lost to time, so I couldn't provide you a source. So I thought the review was hilarious as someone who thought he was "in on the joke." But now there are plenty of people who either haven't played it, or whose modern perceptions of it have been skewed who've, as you said, take all the criticisms at face value.
So despite having laughed at this new Angry Nintendo Nerd guy's review, I still always went back to playing Simon's Quest through again every year or so because it really was a great game to play. I'm also excited whenever I see something like a fan remake of it so I can enjoy it again with a more modern take.
Exactly. He did make fun of a few great games that just have some really bad aspects. I'm cool with it.
He definatly mentioned that he actually liked the game, your right.
You obviously didn't play it before walkthoughs either. YOU NEEDED NINTENDO POWER TO PROGRESS, NO WHERE IN THE FKN GAME DID THEY SAY TAKE THIS FKN CRYSTAL! SHOVE IT UP YOUR ARSE AND KNEEL IN THE WEST OR LEFT CORNER AND WAIT!
@@dreadequation7320 are you okay?
@@dreadequation7320 Maybe German kids were just smarter than you on average, but that's not how we experienced this game. Stuff like this was just something you figured out while playing.
That's how most of these games with cryptic stuff were played. You didn't need Nintendo power for that, you experimented, tried things out.
You people are why Zelda games now tell you exactly what to do the moment you enter a room, you can't be trusted to figure out anything on your own :P
12:51 Ah Sequelitis. The short-lived franchise where Egoraptor insisted tutorials were completely unnecessary in game design... and then spent the next decade and a half of his career as a professional LP'er proving that premise astonishingly wrong.
Granted there's a fair number of points in sequelitis that I don't agree with, but what you said is put forth either entirely in ignorance or bad faith. Arin used the example of conveyance in Mega Man X to show how a tutorial could be integrated into the gameplay seamlessly. The entire point is that most (nearly all) games **don't** do this, and settle for telling you all the mechanics in long dialogue boxes or with a splash screen, which means that simply playing the game without reading the tutorial isn't possible, even for someone with a high degree of gaming experience and literacy like Arin. His refusal to read tutorials is done in the hope that one day, tutorials in their current form, won't be necessary, because that's when we'll have well-designed opening levels. Granted, there are perhaps mechanics that can't be taught just through playing a beautifully constructed introduction, such as in RPGs/RTS/Fighting, and other more complex genres, but we can still do a lot better than we've done for the past 40 years.
@@agroed yeah but the guy won't even read the text boxes indicating what the buttons in the controller do and then rage when he discovers half-way through the playthrough that he had an ability at his disposal that he never used, there's certain things that a designer can usually count on the player reading.
I mean, it took Arin how many games to learn and remember that he could keep the boost button pressed down to run through enemies in Sonic games?
@@axelprino Saying this as someone who has watched Game Grumps religiously for nearly 10 years, I absolutely agree that he refuses to meet developers halfway, and a lot of his frustration is self-inflicted due to negligence. He is oftentimes an excellent example that you can certainly play video games the "wrong" way, plus it can be hard to tell when he's doing it for content or out of genuine disdain/stupidity, but that's also what makes it funny for a lot of people. There's also plenty of times that frustration could be avoided with a better control scheme or better-integrated tutorial though, and that's his point. For example, I was recently playing DKC for the first time and didn't know the controls (they don't tell you anywhere in-game to my knowledge). I was getting annoyed at a jump in Temple Tempest because I couldn't figure out how to clear the last jump with the Gnawty millstone, I was always too short, even with Diddy. Turns out, I didn't know how to sprint for the whole game, because you sprint by rolling first, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sprinting isn't a natural evolution of rolling, ergo it doesn't make sense to sprint by holding down the roll button. By contrast, charging up your buster by holding down the buster button does make sense. Meanwhile, sprint could have just been mapped to one of the unused triggers or the classic double tap to avoid confusion.
I remember when those videos were new and hot shit and the kind of thing everyone was like *supposed* to see, but at the time feeling the arguments in them were kinda off but in a way childhood me couldn't put a finger on. For whatever reason my mind absolutely refused to let it go and those old videos have been slowly rotting in my mind for over a decade as this weirdly omnipresent annoyance every time I think about Zelda or Megaman.
@@agroed oh, I never thought about it but I believe you're right in that DKC1 never bothers to explain how to sprint in-game.
It's a combination of back then games expecting you to read the manual that came in the box and DKC lifting a number of its mechanics straight from SMB 1&3 (in those run and attack share the same button). So yeah some design practices from 30+ years ago haven't aged all that well.
If you liked DKC1 I can wholeheartedly recommend DKC3, it's by far the most polished in the trilogy and my personal favorite but it gets often forgotten because it came out really late in the SNES' life cycle.
Couldn't understand a single thing that was happening in this game (I was 5 at the time without any understanding of english), but it was the first time I felt that oppressive atmosphere of venturing into the unknown.
Don't worry, the game didn't make much more sense in English with the original translation even to native speakers.
Truly appreciating something, means acknowledging the flaws and greatness in something
I haven't seen the Nerd's review in ages, but I thought he made fun of the game's flaws. I didn't think he regarded it as a total peice of junk, like those other games he showed. I even enjoyed Top Gun at the time, but always crashed my landings for no clear reason, so he was right about that!
Thought once I liked something, it became perfect?
Simon's Quest is one of my favorites, always has been. Dark Souls 2 also gets a bad rap. Opinions of others, while sometimes valuable, should be verified by oneself.
I absolutely agree that the game, minus setbacks due to translation errors, is a pioneer in the genre. But you can’t disregard the fact on how insurmountable it was to progress without modern knowledge of fan translations or available walkthroughs. Simon’s Quest as a whole is a fantastic addition, but when basic progression is hindered to even get the very first orb (equip that oak stake, which you’re supposed to know that, how?) you have to realize that there were unsurpassable mountains for those without access to readily available knowledge on the matter
I played it when it was new as a kid. like, yeah, the poor translation certainly made things weird, but the internet did not exist, there were no fan translations, and I beat it as a 7 year old.
I would disagree with the assessment that it was "insurmountable." I'd agree it was definitely obtuse, but honestly, it wasn't that much more obtuse than a lot of other contemporary games. metroid was not exactly straightforward in 1987, it explains almost nothing to the player, but it's not retroactively considered some sort of esoteric impossibility.
I played it as a kid when it was released and I didn’t have an issue beating it.
The devs are probably speculating about kids talking about the game on the schoolyard, and one kid who has by chance equipped this and that item and succeeded would tell the others. Either that, or video game magazines which often had hints at the time.
Games came with manuals back then to give a more in depth story and how-tos. Sometimes even small walkthroughs for early in the game. Didn't help with the kneel at the mountain, but helped with said oak stake.
Lol tons of us played and beat Simon's Quest upon release. You're trippin
I never needed AVGN or Egoraptor to convince me Simon's Quest wasn't a game I was ever going to like, I've always had trouble getting into this game since I was a kid and it was new. All they did was reiterate most of what I always disliked about it and played it up for comedy's sake. However, you make a good argument in favor of it and I can respect that. The game is not without it's intrinsic value to the franchise. I don't know if it's so much a prototype for Symphony of the Night rather than it is the planting of the seeds for what would become the foundation for it.
Iga knows the hidden potential of Simon's Quest, despite the flaws.
@@MidoseitoAkage Koji Igarashi is among my favorite game producers & Directors.
Anyway, as people are entitled to what they enjoy or dislike, much of the criticism comes from the mistranslations from the Hints that the Villagers will give (Which they’ll lie as everyone knows) due to the localization of Simons Quest. The game has flaws of course. But as you said Iga took some of the formula of Simons Quest and made it fun to play.
Simon's Quest was one of the first games I ever played when I got my NES as a kid. Never really understood all the hate outside the bad translation. I spent hours playing the game, making no progress because I didn't have the Nintendo Power guide, and I loved every second of the epic gothic horror adventure. Simon's Quest is probably one of the biggest influences on my tastes in games, music, fiction, and etc. Thank you.
This is my favorite game of the series on atmosphere alone. The world feels immersive where the Actionvanias all FEEL like levels (which is fine for what they are) and the Metroidvanias all have areas that literally feel like texture swapped levels with randomly chosen enemies in them instead of real areas with dedicated thematic enemies.
I was hoping the author would touch on this, particularly with the Dark Souls comparisons. Both absolutely thrive on *mood* and I can't recall any game from that era absolutely nailing that sense of dreary, depressing mood, where the only light shining is your will to go on.
"areas that literally feel like texture swapped levels with randomly chosen enemies instead of real areas with dedicated thematic enemies"
lol on what planet does that describe the igavanias and not Simon's quest
This game is a reused asset galore. A ton of areas are indistinguishable from each other aside from maybe a different color palette.
With Deborah Cliff, the Japanese version doesn't tell you to kneel. The only hint that you need to kneel in either the ENG or JPN version is the fact that you also need to kneel with the blue crystal to get past the lake. Basically, if kneeling with one crystal gets you past a roadblock, you can guess that kneeling with this is also necessary for this roadblock.
Yeah, I’d seen angry reviews and people talking about the tornado cliff as if it was super random and made the game unplayable, but it made sense when playing it. It took me longer to find out the water needed you to kneel than the cliff cause it had already been established at that point lol.
That "you had to kneel with a crystal for the lake so it's the same thing here" concept didn't work for me personally. I only ended up getting it through just trying everything for hours and hours.
What i remember from Simons quest is that most people in my country werent good enough at english or used to read and remember the text boxes. They had demo stations outside the toystore and it was probably the worst way to experience the game getting stuck and not knowing what npc to talk to advance
The English translation wasn't very good either. The game was less cryptic in Japanese
The English translation might as well be unhinged scribbles by asylum inmates.
Thank you RagnorRox, you made two great videos highlighting my two favorite Castlevania games.
As a 41 year old man who has been a Castlevania fan since 1988, since I was 5 years old and first discovered Castlevania 1 and Castlevania II Simon’s Quest.
Just those two games made me a diehard and long time Castlevania fan, I managed to beat Castlevania 1 at 6 years old, but Simon’s Quest took me 10 years to finally beat, and it was because of figuring out how to find all the items and beat the game the right way, because there was no internet or quick cheat sheets to help back then.
I’ll just say this. Castlevania Symphony of the Night is not even in my greatest and favorite Top 5 Castlevania games of all time, and neither is Rondo of Blood, yet Castlevania II Simon Quest and Castlevania Legacy of Darkness 64 are.
That’s how much both of those games resonated with me, and I still play them from time to time, along with my other 3 greatest and favorites in my top 5.
Good video Ragnar. I live in the far north. Back in the day my Reservation was very isolated. Games were sold at the local Hudson Bay outpost. This game was introduced to me by a friend of mine. Yes, I played this before Castlevania 1. My brothers and I played it many times. We also eventually figured out how to finish it as well. No GamePro or magazines to follow. By chance and accidental gameplay we found all weapons, items and all of Dracula's Remains. Good times. 😊
I usually like your work, Ragnar, but I really think you missed the mark on this video.
Lots of arguments that linger on and on and go nowhere, and a lot of "ifs" that don't exactly help to paint Simon's Quest as this misunderstood gem - I think you ended up proving that people are actually right about CV2, which is quite humorous in retrospective.
I'm really glad that you like the game - it's a classic, and we wouldn't have a lot things in this franchise without it, but again, I think you tried a little too hard to prove people wrong.
Really dislike the clickbaity title as well. I understand why you do this, but it ends up painting you as someone very arrogant.
Still, happy to see more CV content. Cheers!
He also could've done without the segments where he lumps all RUclips game reviewers in with Irate Gamer and Game Dude and calls them "imitators thinking they can make a career out of doing Statler and Waldorf routines over game footage."
Agreed. Castlevania 2 has many good things, but at the end of the day, it is still a very flawed game.
The version of the game you are showing was rebuilt and remade, fixing a lot of the frustrating aspects of the original, which had horrible missteps in it. The clues were horrible, the transitions were slow from day to night, and a lot of people thought the game made no sense.
Yes, that doesn't change the points
Honestly, the town NPCs straight up lying to you in some of their dialogue re-inforces the animosity they feel towards Simon. They want to mislead him because they don't want him to make matters any worse than he already did whne he killed Dracula the first time. You know, at least in their minds. Poor guy can't really help Dracula's nature as an indestructible force.
You know if that was the intention, granted I'm working with hindsight here, I feel like they could have maybe indicated that more clearly by maybe making the villager text boxes that are showing animosity or straight up lying to Simon be indicated by the text box outline be red instead of blue? Could also play around with purple and white text boxes to indicate like dubious and truly helpful respectively and have followup text boxes, but I don't know if the limitations would allow it.
@@toonman5099 That would actually undermine the whole thing. People who genuinely hate you can often pretend that they like you, just to stab you in the back or try to lead you into trouble. Marking the lies clearly with different text or box colours kinda ruins the whole question of "Can i trust these people?"
@@Bloodfencer1990 Fair, but would having like follow up text boxes also undermine the point? Mostly in a "you tried out the hint, or at least feel like you did, then you go back to the hint giver for clarification, and it either confirms if they were lying, being helpful, or if they continue being vague" kind of way.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I'd preferred they made this clear with a few more villagers being outright hostile and some refusing to talk at all.
@@ZeroDarkMidnight I FEEL like the latter is the case in the game with some just not being interactable? It's been a while since I last played so I'm not sure. But yeah it would kind of help better sell the idea of the Belmont's being viewed as outcasts or the reason why everything is as bad as it is and that they're the problem. Although I don't remember if that was the intention for the games back then during Simon's time or just for those first few games up until SotN.
The NES was the first console I owned and Simon's Quest was the first Castlevania game I ever played. Due to a mix of "I'm too young to have the disposable cash to buy my own games, so this is all I've got" and the oodles of free time that come with being young, I pumped hours and hours into this game and I loved every minute of it. Yes, some of the puzzles (like the infamous tornado) I survived with help of word of mount and/or Nintendo Power, but never did it annoy me. The bad translation likewise didn't bother me as I'd only started reading a few years earlier and English wasn't my first language anyway. Then, when decades later AVGN and Sequelitis came out, I could see their points, kind of, but I just never agreed and Simon's Quest has always just been one of my favourite NES games, to the point that when I finally got around to the first Castlevania game, I didn't like it because it wasn't like Simon's Quest and I could never make it past level 3. Nowadays I still enjoy Simon's Quest and will occasionally play through it. Since I know what I'm doing now, it's never that same epic, sprawling adventure I played that first time, but I do still enjoy my time in the game immensely.
I certainly just borrowed that game from my friend. Also, I bought Kid Icarus, and he bought Metroid. The plan was that we can trade after awhile. But Metroid was so much better, I eventually got a copy myself.
Part of the game’s problem was how cryptic it was. We didn’t have internet in the 80’s, so all we had was schoolyard rumors about how to solve the puzzles in the game. I always enjoyed the game as a kid, but I never was able to beat it until years later when I had access to the solutions.
Yes and most of didn’t have a subscription to Nintendo power by that still didn’t really help 😂
I never played Simon’s Quest, but I always defended their move, because of Zelda II… I always felt that at that time, we didn’t have a certain way that sequels HAD to be, and what they did was actually ahead of their time, and used a lot of ideas and mechanics seen in games today. And regardless of the games being good or bad, they should be applauded for it…
Also, Nine Inch Nails, aaaah….lovely….!
Simons Quest walked so Symphony of the Night could run. I'll always hold fond memories of playing Simons Quest as a kid. Maybe not as vivid in mind as SotN but its soundtrack and designs will always be firmly in memory
There should be a scientific law that states that given enough time, there will be an essay about how any panned game was secretly brilliant all along.
It's the only real clickbait left. No one needs yet another video crapping on say DS2 or, well, Simon's Quest.
What a pointless comment, this game wasn't panned at launch. This video is just pushing back against the negative reappraisals that shaped the narrative around the game, while still discussing the game's flaws.
@@DergonQuert I didn't say it was panned back then. I was there, after all. My personal review is that it was a fun game and a crappy rental. My point was that everything is beloved to someone. Some 14 year old is gonna do a 2 hour video about how great Forspoken is in about a decade.
I really wish to find a video about how good Deus Ex: Invisible war was.😢
@ejchelette5986 you said "any panned game was secretly brilliant all along" which certainly implies the consensus was always that it was bad. As for the suggestion your comment was meant to about differing opinions and not implying the only reason for this video is to be contrary for clicks... LOL
Some constructive criticism from a huge fan. That first example of music around 8:20 came on incredibly loud, and again at 14:50 the audio volume increased significantly where it really didn't need to. At 18:00 a clip of someone talking about the game came in with audio levels significantly higher than your voice track. You've got a great mix for most of the video, which unfortunately means these audio mixing issues stick out that much more. It can be quite jarring through headphones, or for people listening in a relaxed state.
Oh fr the music was loud asf
As someone who fell in love with video games and storytelling through this title and Ninja Gaiden:
Thank you 🔥
They were wrong about Dark Souls 2 video next
HBomber already did that.
@@sonicpsycho13 Eh... He didn't do that great of a job to be honest.
@@sonicpsycho13 A poor job. Dark Souls II is a critically flawed game. I hate the very way it feels to control.
Dark Souls 2 is much more deeply flawed than Castlevania 2 ever was.
But, everyone was right about dark souls 2
People can be pissy and hateful when they talk about the game, but it'll never take away the enjoyment and memories of 10-year-old me playing it for hours, learning the way though each mansion, and ultimately earning every ending. Things in the modern age are easy to love/hate because the Internet prevents you from living in a vacuum - there is always another opinion and if you hear enough of them, you start to fall in line with them. It happens with games, cars, TV/movies, politics - everything. I have to wonder how many people that hate on SQ actually played it when it was new, in the world before game reviews and such.
It'll always be one of my favorites, just like so many other games from NES-era. MY opinion influenced by childhood freedom to enjoy things without looking for flaws like we all seem to do in modern games.
Definitely true. I got this game when it was relatively new, and it was my favorite for a long time. I literally had no idea it was considered "bad" until I watched this video.
I miss living in a vacuum sometimes.
Childhood neutrality is a blessing, with a generous helping of patience and nothing better to do of course.
I played it when it was new. Disliked it then, dislike it now. In a minute to minute sense the game just wasn't fun. As an adult I can appreciate what they were trying to do, but it falls short to me. I am happy that it's existence led to symphony of the night and many other games that fall into whatever you wish to call the genre. I can't say I hate Simon's quest. But I certainly can say I dislike it
Your nostalgia for the game doesn't make it not suck for me.
A tip for those invisible pitfalls: just watch how the enemies move.
They won't walk across pits either, so if they seemingly turn around on some random tile on the platform, that's where your pit is.
No need to just throw holy water over and over and over.
I'd say even more: it is possible that day/night cycle in Simon's Quest could have been an original spark for Silent Hill Dark world.
First of all thank you for this video. Simon's Quest literally blew my mind as a kid. And still is a part of me today. From the very beginning the soundtracks, the atmosphere and the new designs compared to the 1st Castelvania ( which I finished multiple times before), made me feel that I was about to go through an epic and rough adventure exactly as said in your video. As a french kid with an english level below 0. I had absolutely no clue about what was going on and what I was supposed to do. And now knowing that the translation from Japanese was ( intentionally or not ) bad. It makes more sense or less I don't know. But that never affected my determination and the aura of the game to me. We finally played hours and hours with 2 of my good friends trying random things. And trust me or not. After about a year without internet or magazines helps we found one by one the unlikely tricks driving us to the end. Then guess what... Decades later I discovered and fell in love with what is my favorite band of all time. The masters of new death metal The Black Dahlia Murder. At the very first listening their music kicked my ass and made me drop my jaw. With hindsight I actually can tell that I felt the way I felt with Simon's Quest. A sort of epic, existential and profound feeling. After a few years listening and discovering the band I found out that the frontmen Trevor Strnad (RIP dude we miss you) was a huge fan of retrogaming and that Castelvania 2 ( among others but mainly ) inspired him a lot on how he wrote and composed his songs. All the stars aligned in my mind. Understanding why his music blew my mind right away. Taking me back more than 20 years ago. This game will dwell in me forever.
Hi Ragnar, i have been watching you ever since the forgotten gems were the series of the day. I always have wondered why they stopped, and i miss them. I'm honestly shocked they didn't get views! To me, they were the reason i subscribed.
That makes me happy to hear. Yeah, they kept brutally underperforming - people really liked them, but everytime I released one (except when it was a more well-known game that had a draw on its own, like Soul Reaver), it pulled down the channel's performance so drastically that it felt like all the progress made before was voided. Felt like Sisyphus.
Kinda sad, because I love talking about the most obscure games out there. But I always tried to incorporate the spirit behind it into other videos.
@@RagnarRoxShow yes, I can definitely see the spirit continue. I should mention, it's not like I don't like everything you've done since. I'm always happy when a new video releases!
I played it as a kid, without any guide magazines or anything
The English translation made it unplayable beyond a certain point. Like, “can not proceed further” unplayable.
Yep. I eventually ended up doing random stuff on different screens just trying to trigger something, anything lol. It did feel good finding something new but it sucked never knowing where it was relevant.
It's the one about "praying" at the cliff. My entire family gave up. I was about to give up but was a very stubborn child with lots of free time. I'm not sure what the original text said and maybe it was confusing too (it makes sense *AFTER* you understand what you have to do, but figuring that out is the tricky part.)
All along the clue just meant kneel for a bit.
Ironically they reused this mechanic in a few later games almost like they were thumbing their noses at everyone, lol. (Rondo of Blood has at least one point where you do this for a bonus item for example. And you aren't even told to do it. Mostly I did it by accident while waiting on enemies to move into place.)
@@NazoKiyoubinbou if it had been “praying” it would have been better, but it wasn’t.
It just says to wait for a soul at Deborah cliff.
Nothing in the game even tells you that wall is Deborah cliff, and nothing tells you you to kneel down and wait for a tornado
I was little when I played castlevania 2 for the first time, I cried and shut the game off when it cycled to night. A few years later, I tried it again and absolutely loved it, but didn't beat it. In 2002, when I was 18, I finally beat it and said, "That was a lot of fun." I didn't use a guide or the internet for anything. Playing it again on the castlevania collection, I had a blast. I think this game gets a lot of unearned hate, but that's just my opinion.
"OH what a horrible night to have a curse" will be seared into my nightmares forever.
A game that is no fun is bad now matter in how many groundbreaking ways it sucks. As a kid with limited english skills, exploring this game was destilled frustrating cancer.
Just wanted to say thank you for chaptering the video. I appreciate when i can just focus on the video's content and skip the sponsor, since 99% its something I'll never be interested in.
I loved this game so much as a kid and never understood all the hate it got.
I loved Simon's Quest when it came out. It remains my favorite in the series because of it's odd rpg'ish mixture.
I remember yelling aloud my first time playing Dark Souls: 'This is Simon's Quest!'
The game's biggest issue is if you was a kid, when this was released in the 80s, was you are mostly likely not going to finish that game without nintendo power or word of mouth in school. I see you are playing an updated version. The clues given in that game were awful. To be fair, there is no reason to shit on the game anymore the updated verisons and the internet to help with the vague clues. But dude, seriously, the NPCS in the original was dogshit.
I played the heck out of Simon's Quest when it came out. Its crypticness and obtuseness were compelling. Even back then it felt like it was doing something completely different and important.
I think you make some fair points here, especially about the art direction, environments, and the power of exploration and RPG elements this game had; however, I think there are still many completely valid critiques in the (admittedly exaggerated) AVGN videos (his second review of it, as part of the 2009 "Castlevaniathon" is a far more serious look at the game) about Simon's Quest. E.g. the bosses are not really redeemable; no amount of trying to wiggle that one around is going to save it. The boss designs are all far less creative than those in the first game, there are fewer of them, and their sprites are terribly plain, some without anything in the way of meaningful animations, not to mention how bafflingly easy they are. I don't necessarily hold the original translation against it, though it was certainly not helpful.
On the other hand, it has its virtues: the sense of scale is great, the backgrounds are cool with the huge, all-covering trees, and the towns and mansions all have much ground and multiple floors, but the journey itself doesn't quite equal the rest of the game. AVGN's point about the final area is correct. Compare walking through a place completely devoid of foes to the final stage of the first game and the now iconic march up the tall stairway, through the hall, and into Dracula's throne room makes the area in Simon's Quest look pretty dull. Further, between the two encounters, in Simon's Quest you have Dracula, who not only looks very much like a classic grim reaper, has no movement or animations, and no second form; while in the first game, Dracula has multiple forms, different attacks, and much more spectacle (as much as an 8-bit game could produce spectacle, that is).
So is this game much better than the wider internet would have us believe? Absolutely. It has some very cool elements, excellent music, visually it's a gothic feast, and aside from the bosses, it has a varied cast of cool enemy sprites. The RPG elements are my jam, the various weapons and utility items are cool, and I liked the puzzles. The very fact that without Simon's Quest I would never have gotten to play Infernax, Symphony of the Night, Blasphemous and its sequel (probably) or even Demon's Souls, is a testament to its importance as a game, if nothing else.
I think you are half right - everyone is wrong about some things they say about Simon's Quest, but it is a far, far better game than people think it is, especially today when it's not only been modified by various cool romhacks, it's been lovingly remade by Warmachine, who did a nice job in my opinion - like that remake or hate it, the game inspired someone to rebuild the game out of love of it, so that's a sign in favor of Simon's Quest if ever there was one.
Finally, I will never, ever respect the term "search action" - Metroidvania may be terrible, but "search action" is about as dumb as "character action" in my view.
I love seeing more and more of THESE video analyses both SUPPORTING Simon Quest as an excellent (if a bit flawed) game of its era, AND confirming that it’s play format ended up leading to the heralded GREATEST game in the series, Symphony of the Night, the game that launched a genre still widely respected and appreciated today. Excellent discussion - specifically love the idea of a game that is unpolished having charm as a result. Sure, unbalanced games can hit difficulty spikes that turn the player off, but it’s a bit more reflective of LIFE- not every new chapter is going to be as steadily increased in difficulty as the last.
Wonderful video!!
Feel like it's a little unfair to use footage from a heavily modified CV2 romhack.
He literally talks about different romhacks vs the original and how they address the original English releases flaws in the video.
@@DergonQuert Still takes a while into the video to get to that acknowledgement (and even then doesn't properly disclose the important changes), I understand that he needs B roll footage to play in the background as well, but using stuff like the cutscenes and readable clues feels like foul play.
Castlevania II is most certainly not a bad game, but this video puts it on a -far too high- pedestal.
Yeah, my version of the game had no cutscenes and "prossess." The game mechanics are innovative. The translation was garbage.
@@hopeyouguess9850 He does raise a good point about the writing in the original JP release also being... misleading. However, that doesn't make it good or acceptable.
@@sleepyren_ True, but there was very little chance to discover the red crystal hint and interpret it correctly, and that's not even counting the blue crystal kneeling part. I mean, it's still a favorite of mine, but having to use a guide to finish a game (in the pre-Internet before-fore times) is a rough deal. Still... first Castlevania game I played (apart from the Tiger handheld version), so it gets love from me.
Great video. Yes, influencers can really influence how a game is perceived. The issue is that people blindly accept whatever they hear about a game.
the critics made good points. the holy water mechanic was kind of lame, each of the mansions should have at the very least had a boss that was non-optional, the use of crystals to progress genuinely was cryptic, and the final castle/boss was a joke. still one of my favorites but it could've been so much more.
Cryptic? The game never told you how to use the crystal you needed Nintendo power to find out.
Yeah a crack on breakable blocks like zelda would make a world of difference
"and the final castle/boss was a joke"
I agree the last boss was underwhelming, but I actually like what they did with the last town and castle. As you get closer to the end there's just this feeling of unease. The last town (closest to the castle) is almost entirely deserted, and the environment largely dead, having been consumed by Dracula's influence. Even the ruins of his castle has this wordless creepy factor that I true appreciate for it's world-building.
@@silverwolf761 Yes that part is really cool. If i recall correctly there's just one person in the town that you have to holy water down to the basement to get too, and they just say "let's live here together." Really creepy/cool!
I still get notifications because on a bloody tears upload here on youtube I pointed out that in the simons quest cover art, the whip is in the shape of a 2, that was over 10 years ago
Thank you Ragnar. I am a Castlevania fan who never tried Simon's Quest because I believed the discourse surrounding it and thought I wouldn't like it. And now you made me excited to finally play the game and expand my knowledge and experience about the series.
I liked it a lot as a kid and it's my favorite game of the Castlevania Anniversary Collection.
I was 8 or 9 when Simon's Quest came out. Everyone liked it. The Internet can change history sometimes
Always thought that classic Castlevania sucks massive balls (aside from bloodlines, that was more like contra with a whip). But Simon’s Quest was awesome. It was smart, it made me think. Not that many games did that back then.
Man what a great vid! Very impressive! Only thing I didn’t care for of Simons Quest is the crypticness of it…you’d never know by playing it to do certain things to advance (holding a gem in a certain part for a tornado to come or a lake to go down, throwing a stake at an orb) but it has its charm with great enemies (except for bosses lol) in a game that’s mandatory for Castlevania fans!
Simon's Quest is mediocre at best. I remember the first time I go to the final dungeon (which is entirely empty for some reason, save the final boss). I equipped the Golden Knife to be ready for the boss fight, saw the final boss, threw a knife, the boss got stunned, threw another knife, the boss was still stunned, threw more knives, and the boss died before it even had a chance to move.
The exploration stuff was neat, the in-game clues were bad, and the boss AI was trash. At least the music and atmosphere were good.
Dracula's mansion is barren, because you decimated it in the first game, so there are monsters everywhere but the place you demolished, the last time. I honestly can't remember if that was in game, or the accompanying writing, but it was covered.
As for the gold knife, versus any other weapon... it happens. Most people were not that prepared. I beat Link’s Awakening with the boomerang equipped, coincidentally. That turned the last boss into 1 single hit. Instead of, like, 18(?), or ~9 with arrows. I accidentally used the kryptonite, without realizing it.
Leveling to the degree where the fight was simple generally meant that you were getting the worst ending, in SQ, unless you had it down to a science.
@@SeanJMay There's more than one weapon that can trivially stunlock Dracula and you don't have to go that far out of your way to pick one of them up.
The endings don't make sense in game (the "best" ending has Dracula come to life, the "neutral" ending has Simon die, and the "bad" ending says "the people are free of Dracula's curse forever", though this is probably due to a botched translation as that good-sounding ending is delivered on a monochrome background.) there's nothing in the game to suggest that you're on a strict timer, and the timer even pauses in dungeons.
Nintendo Power even did an entire 2 page Howard and Nester comic on the "kneel with red crystal at a dead end" requirement--probably to reduce the number of angry kids staring at a blank cliff.
It's an ambitious game, to be sure, but it's still very, very clunky.
The reason behind the Clues being bad is because of translation errors during the localization.
@@Psychokyuubi666 There were misleading clues in the original Japanese. The translation didn't help any, of course, but the clues were never meant to be 100% reliable.
@@onlylettersand0to9 Uhuh, I know that already. My fanservice of this series started over 24 - Years ago.
All I was writing is that the translation in the U.S was mistranslated. I’m fully aware of the Villagers capable of lying to you during talking to them. Anyway to each their own my guy. However I’ll throw a nod to that game players hint tape someone I knew from School had 😊
Bought it on release and loved it; there was no hard and fast Castlevania lore or rules, so it was fun to have a new take on the first game. Thought the misinformation from the villagers was great, and loved the music and open world approach. Yes the crystals are a miss, but I loved this game growing up and took AVGN-style rants as entertainment. They didn’t change my appreciation of the game in the slightest - heck I really liked the last stage: silent, devoid of enemies, and lonely, it was different and creepy.
angry reviewers ruined videogames criticism for a lot of time
word
Thankfully I had played, enjoyed and beaten Castlevania 2 before ever seeing the AVGN video about the game. 😄
I mean, to be fair, they also did shape the course of RUclips video essays and analysis, so, eh. Necessary evil, I guess?
@@davidrevillii5353 I agree, and I would be lying if I didn't say that I really enjoyed AVGN when I was younger, like 15 years ago. Man, that is a lot of time...
Video essays are where it’s at.
Lame or lack of bosses, lack of enemies in final dungeon was a missed opportunity
THANK YOU!! I've been saying for years that Simon's Quest - while flawed - isn't as bad as the internet makes it out. I remember playing it as a kid and being frustrated, but as an adult I really appreciate all that it did. It may not be the first metroidvania - that honor belongs to "Vampire Killer" on MSX. But, it definitely laid a lot of the groundwork... That said, I didn't realize until your video that there was a level up system in Simon's Quest. At all. lol
Honestly, if I were to remake Simon's Quest. The only thing I'd do, is make the hints slightly easier to understand. Add some difference to the textures of fake & breakable floors and walls. And an in-game map. Because the gameplay? That's still immaculate.
Remove the holy water floor hunt too. I don't understand how ANTONE could think of that as fun.
Simon's Quest was h - u - g - e in my childhood. I loved spending loads of time playing it. Egoraptor was dead wrong about the colours and the environments. Those backgrounds with the wooded horizons, pale skies and mountain vistas were beautiful!! (I still think they are, seeing them again in this video). It really gave a sense of you being deep in some Central/Eastern European wilderness, just filled with rugged terrain and hostile monsters. And the different colour schemes for towns and other regions not only helped locate you but could also be really evocative. Just look at the forest area with grey trees/rocks and orange canopies - it's like you're going through a dying woodland supernaturally afflicted with autumnal decay. And the final town before Dracula's castle that's just completely grey and almost entirely deserted... That's brilliant - the kind of environmental storytelling that games like Bloodborne are praised for.
To Egoraptor's credit, he did actually do a great job of articulating the very real sense of you being up against some intangible force, as if the very world itself was trying to destroy you ("Silent Hill did the same God-damn thing and y'all love it so much!"). I felt that when I was a child, and was simply too young to comprehend and articulate what that feeling was.
Several years ago, I went back and played it again for the first time since I was a kid. And I still loved it. I didn't find the clues as obfuscating as I remember people saying.
I adore this game.
Saying that I love Simon’s Quest would be an understatement. It’s literally my muse most of the time lol, I draw about it a lot.
It feels to me that the constant feeling of being lost is very intentional, especially in the context of the story and setting. Simon did win, but also kinda failed his last attempt at properly putting down Dracula. The curse itself is not only on him, but on the nearby towns as well. The closer you get to the castle, the more bleak and dangerous the game gets, the last town being nearly empty and grayscale. Simon hasn’t been out doing anything about it for 6 years according to the time skip and the townspeople are starting to hate him. The game’s story literally starts out with Simon going to the family graveyard to contemplate his life, perhaps he has tried to break the curse and everything so far has failed, or maybe he hasn’t out of shame or simply not knowing he’s cursed and not just sick, but from the first two lines of the story we know our protagonist is near death, at the end of his wits, and might have given up had a ghost woman not tell him to do something. That’s intense!!! And the plot past this point is about finding and carrying around pieces of a deadman, slowly rotting alive, and desperately trying to get some directions before your time runs out. Oh yeah! The whole game is basically timed! Simon is actively trying to beat a clock! I really think some of the vagueness of the game is meant to make you feel like you’re wasting precious time, to panic you a little, especially when you get lost or hit a dead end and realize you’ve thrown away a whole day. I also love the contrast of washed out color palettes in the day time and high contrast neon fever dreamy color palettes at night. And the fact the game gets emptier the closer you get to the end with the castle itself being practically a liminal space is unnerving!!! This game I think it’s supposed to unsettle, it feels more horror focused than other classicvanias, and I love it so much for that. And oh my god it intrigues me so much that the text for each of the endings are all nearly interchangeable eulogies for Simon while the song requiem plays, I could just go on about what the endings might mean, but that’d be way to long for one comment lol.
Is it perfect? No, but I don’t expect perfection from any game and it’s still damn good. One of my favorite games of all time for sure :3.
Honestly Chibi, I enjoyed your comment more than the actual video lol. Well said!
The first game had you destroy Drac and his castle. In all fairness, what else could they do? They took a chance and expanded the world. You went out into the land and towns. It felt gothic and immersive. Flawed sure, but they had to start somewhere. I always found it petty that people would bash something in hindsight when back in the day my friends and I had fun with it. And why? Because we had no other choices. We weren't spoiled with twenty different systems or exclusives only from Japan which are now available but impossible to obtain back in the 80's.
Sir, you're making me finally pull Simon's Quest out of the shelf and give it a spin. I've been reluctant in the past out of the impression that it's nigh impossible to make progress without resorting to a guide, which is something that I don't enjoy. How true is that? Is it really 100% impossible to beat the game without a guide?
@@HEROplasticIt's statistcally extremely improbable unless you know one thing. How to summon the tornado.
@@PurifyWithLight Well, I do know that one because it has sort of become a meme at this point haha. I was wondering if there were other instances of that level of obscurity elsewhere in the game
Thank you for making this! I never really watched RUclips video essays on anything until the pandemic so I totally missed the early RUclipsr discourse on Simon’s Quest. This was one of my favorite games as a kid, up there with Zelda and Mario Bros 3 and Final Fantasy. So when I found out a few years ago people hated it I was really surprised.
Funnily enough, a lot of movie reviewers like nostalgia critic or cinema sins are utter bs in the same way. They drag movies through the mud with nitpicks, and criticisms that are simply untrue but a large audience believes them. And suddenly people act like a lot of the movies we liked back in the day are actually utter shit.
I can happily and honestly say that I never agreed with AVGN and detractors of Simon's Quest. This game was one of the first couple of video games I ever played, and I always liked it for it's action, music and graphics.
The only thing that frustrated me was how damn hard it was to figure out how to progress in it.
It took me years to finally beat it, because back then I didn't have internet access or walkthroughs readily available, and my english skills weren't that great at the time either, so clues from villagers in the game didn't help me all that much.
A lot of the puzzles and riddles I figured out by dumb luck and trial and error. Like that part where you come to an impassable big lake, and in one playthrough I accidentally ducked at that spot and revealed the hidden path under it.
My mind was completely blown at that moment. 😆
Ngl I'm only 27 minutes into the video and I wish you spent more time elaborating on why the ideas this game tried are good and well executed instead of complaining that other content creators are wrong. I have not played Dark Sould man just saying "dark souls did it and people like that one!" is not enough to make me understand your point
The comparison with Dark Souls is about how it handles its open world and its inherent criptycness. On the other hands most of the important points on the game are explained, the day night cycle, the upgrade system, the exploration focus, etc. I don't know what you feel 'unexplained'
Thank you for making this and defending the good name of Castlevania 2. I love this game, and thank you for highlighting all of the good this game did for the industry.
The game is grindy, cryptic, slow paced, and the boss fights are awful.
The game still has a lot to offer but unless you are a hardcore castlevania fan and if you play this and find yourself not having fun within the first 10 mins.
Turn it off and jump over to 3.
I'm so glad to hear a more nuanced view of this game. I never finished the game as a kid, probably because of the kneeling by the cliff thing. I still enjoyed it though. When the more accurate translation dropped I couldn't get enough of the game. The only real complaint I have is the lack of fun bosses. I would love to see a remake in the style of the GBA-games.
These bloody tears fall blinded, for ten thousand years...
this nightmare just keeps getting worse...
WHAT A HORRIBLE NIGHT TO HAVE A CURSE.
I'm old. I've played this as a kid when it was new.
The big problem with Castlevania 2 is a few very esoteric puzzles (usually involving equipping an orb and crouching) that are harder than usual thanks to the bad translation.
But I don't remember anyone hating the game back in the day since in those days people didn't expect to finish every game they buy. "Finishing a game" was a new thing at the time so those puzzles that could end most people's journey weren't that big of a deal.
Of course, a password was passed down from kid to kid that could take you straight to Dracula and that's how I saw the ending.
I liked this game as much as the first because I couldn't get far enough in either one, for very different reasons (I didn't own either but traded games with friends).
I know you mention this in your video but I wrote this halfway through the video.
The name "MetroidVania" was coined by "Sharkey" originally to describe Castlevania games like SotN and CotM. Eventually Jeremy Parish used it to describe the genre. I'm a huge nerd.
Sorry to break it to you, bucko, but I was born in 1981 and I got this game as an Easter gift. Everyone I knew had the first Castlevania so I just played it at their houses, and I thought "oh boy here's the one I'll have, and I can show them." Trust me, EVERYONE HATED THAT GAME.
Oh sure, it's decently fun to walk around and fight monsters, but no one wanted to play this one if they had any option because of how difficult it was to make any progress in it. You want to know how 90% of the cart's owners played it? We'd play it like Ghostbusters just for the fun of the mechanics for a few minutes, then switch it off when bored. It was much like Rambo and Willow, you can run around and have some fun but trying to get anywhere is pointless because the game is just ridiculous.
So we'd use the code in Nintendo Power to load the end of the game, we'd walk through a mostly empty path to the unfinished final boss, kill him the easiest way, and call it a day. Castlevania 3 put away any reason anyone had except the cool music and graphics.
You can believe anything you want, that the legends aren't true, the monster can't be as horrible as we old timers say. But I know better. I was there. The AVGN video didn't create a cultural perception, you've got it backwards. It resonated because it represented how so many of us actually felt.
This is just plain wrong. Everyone I knew as a kid loved the game, and Simon's Quest was one of the games talked about in the schoolyard about hints and just how cool the game was. Maybe you were in a pocket of people that hated the game, but that pocket was far from the norm. As one old timer to another, I was also there, and your take is wrong.
@@Suprentus I'm going to have to assume your friends were Metroid and D&D type super nerds, the graph paper and math types. We played outside most of the time, the normal kids. And let me tell you, that pattern continued through the entire lifespan of the NES. You're talking about it like it was Zelda II, and it was not. It was overly cryptic, poorly translated, had as confusing a map as Friday the 13th, and so even though we had a guide in Nintendo Power, it was just not worth the hassle for most people to bother to play it. There were plenty of difficult games that people DID talk about and trade secrets for, but Castlevania II was absolutely not one of them. If you want to know why the game is actually like it is, you really have to examine Vampire Killer on the MSX, and here's a video which does that. Seeing as I owned the game and none of my friends ever did, nor wanted to play mine, yet 1 and 3 were both very popular and often traded around, I have actual market data supporting my statements. You're welcome to try and further justify your position as somehow more indicative of the wider market, but given the way most people played these games was not with a pen and paper or even reading the instructions, I expect to highly doubt your evidence.
ruclips.net/video/peVgerhXJlU/видео.html
@@fusionspace175 What a bizarre response. You talk as if you're still stuck in your school days with jocks vs nerds. I don't know why you'd assume my friends and I were super nerds, or what that even has to do with anything. Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if you think it's still a flex today that you took Stacey to prom back then.
As for the substance of your argument, "overly cryptic" didn't really factor into enjoyment. If you recall, the market was different back then. A lot of NES games could take weeks, if not months, to complete. Some did it through difficulty, others did it by being cryptic. Zelda I was the perfect example of the latter. For some games, figuring them out was part of the experience. You may look back on it with AVGN eyes, but I don't think you remember those days as well as you think you do.
Also, I'm wondering how "actual market data" supports the statement that your friends hated Simon's Quest and that my friends were just D&D super nerds. I'm now wondering what you think market data is, and what market data could even exist to support either your anecdotes or the claim that kids didn't trade secrets about Simon's Quest. I also call bullshit on your claim that most people played NES games without reading instructions, as many NES games only made sense after reading instructions. I also don't see the point in linking a video that's over 7 hours about Castlevania right after bragging to me that you play outside and don't read guides or instructions. You sound like a redditor.
@@Suprentus You did need a decidedly more adventurous demeanor to like Simon's Quest at the time. It was a grossly esoteric game that did not ignite the burning heart like Castlevania and Dracula's Curse did. No action-oriented kid could stand it.
That dichotomy hasn't changed to this day. Monster Hunter World vs Monster Hunter Rise fans are trapped in the exact same adventure/immersion vs action/achievement war and they're much more vile against each other than we middle aged Castleboomers could ever be.
@@Stroggoii I agree you need a more adventurous demeanor to enjoy a game with adventure, but it's not a dichotomy that you can either only like adventure or action. You say no action-oriented kid could stand it, but I'm proof you could. I loved the entire Castlevania NES trilogy. You only have to look at other comments here to see your premise isn't true as well.
I also don't care about Monster Hunter. It never appealed to me. A better (if overused) comparison of adventure/immersion vs action/achievement blend (not war) would be Dark Souls.
The death of us all is not criticism it's sturgeon's law.
This game is flawed and rushed. It deserved a better. So did we.
How old are you? Because I was 10 when this came out and was super disappointed when it wasn't like the first one and I kept getting lost and didn't know where to go or what to do next. I think it's more like you enjoyed it so you've convinced yourself you're right and others were wrong. This was a decisive game back then no matter how much you pretend the hate is only RUclips manufactured.
Castlevania 2 was one of the first NES games (and the only Castlevania game) that I owned - in fact I still have the cart somewhere. I really loved it for all the reasons you mentioned, and even dressed up as Simon Belmont (my mom sewed me the red outfit) in elementary school for Halloween. As a lover of the Souls series, it really does feel proto-Souls in many ways, from the melancholy crumbling atmosphere to the cryptic dialogue. It was, admittedly, a game that pretty much required Nintendo Power to figure out in the day, but as someone who beat the game at probably 8 or 9 years old, its complexity is way overblown. I also remember that original AVGN review, and how it struck me less as an indictment of Simon's Quest specifically, and more as that sort of phenomenon with many old Nintendo games where you might rent them, not have a manual, and have no internet or any other way to figure out what was going on, and often as a kid not understanding why, only to realize later as an adult that it was the designers' (or perhaps in this case the localizers') fault and not your own. I've returned to Castlevania 2 a couple of times in the ensuing years and always find it enjoyable to play, and it honestly remains my favorite of the NES Castlevanias.
So, let me get this straight, you honestly believe this game was universally beloved until one guy's low-quality six-minute review video in 2004 that even he says was half-assed magically changed everyone's opinion overnight. And also that Arin Hanson just outright lied about his opinion of it for the sake of going along with that one guy. And also also that when James Rolfe reviews a game, it never had a poor reputation before and he doesn't mean a word of what he says as AVGN (who embodies an exaggeration, not a complete fabrication, of his thoughts on the games, mind you), and his later, better revisits of Simon's Quest are also just bunches of lies.
Okay.
Oh, and real cool of you to lump Angry Joe in with people like Irate Gamer and just collectively dump on RUclips game reviewers for, I dunno, having the audacity to make their critiques humorous and interesting to watch, apparently.
btw, at 32:54 you showed a clip from Simon's Quest Revamped, a fan hack that fixes all the problems with the original game.
@@ElFreakinCid Yeah, this guy is just insecure.
I seem to have a special place in my heart for black sheep, and I've loved Simon's Quest from NP issue 2 on (the cover-spawned outrage delights me, almost as much as Bionic Commando's ending). Sometimes the oddities of translation and inscrutable design decisions are held up as flaws, but (as mentioned here) we all shared the challenges with solemn determination and there was something amazing in being the one to bring the newly deciphered secrets to the playground. It's truly a classic and anyone who says otherwise is sadly misinformed.
Castlevania 2 was the first Dark Souls...Prove me wrong...
Metroid came out a year before
Prince of Persia, maybe.
It was actually D&D.
Demon's Souls took heavy inspiration from it.
@@TheMilhouseExperience I would say Prince of Persia was more revolutionary given the time it was made... by one guy. It also operated on weaker machines but with better animation and style. There's a good book on it.
Kings field, Shadow Tower, Evergrace, all these games predate Dark and Demon’s soul
Hm... I don't feel you gave an accurate/fair assessment of Simon's Quest, and I've got a bit of a mouthful on why. Let's start with where we agree.
First. I think your callout on Egoraptor's palette critiques are fair. Castlevania 1 has a lot of messy looking scenery, and at its worst it's hard to tell what you're even looking at. Castlevania 2 has a lot more visual clarity on the whole, and Simon does tend to be easier to see against the various backgrounds. Yes, 2's palettes are more desaturated and drab, but I kinda feel like that fits the game's atmosphere since it's meant to be a little... dreary and have this sense of imminent death and dread. I think I would still say CV1 looks better on average, but I understand this point isn't as binary as Egoraptor made it out to be.
Second. I agree with your sentiment that the game was held back by an incorrect translation and that we prolly should apply a patch to experience the game the way it was intended. I also think that the genuine _intended_ lies are neat and fitting of a "Search Action" game. I don't mind that I have to sort truth from fiction, and I think if the player applies enough skepticism and common sense, they can discern what hints are true and which ones aren't. I think this is a genuinely interesting aspect of the game that I don't see done often enough elsewhere.
Third. I can agree wholeheartedly that the game is extremely influential. As your Iga (translated) quote points out, Symphony of the Night wouldn't have been possible without CV2 establishing that Castlevania _could_ go in a more "Search Action" sort of direction. There's also the music from the game getting covered, the frequent references to the various elements in this game, and and the lore it established for the franchise. All of that is pretty agreeable.
Now let's talk where we disagree.
Firstly. I don't think Castlevania II was the first game of its kind to do the 2D exploration combat-focused RPG elements. I think Zelda II would be the first, and that was released in January 1987 (in Japan). Several months before Simon's Quest. It's worth noting that Igarashi - when making Symphony of the Night - mentioned that his team was thinking more "Zelda" than "Metroid", so I think this lends credence to Zelda II being the first of this kind of game, even if Simon's Quest was a big influence.
Second. The grinding. You mention that if you simply go the intended path, you should have enough money to buy anything you need without having to slow down and grind. I'm pretty sure that is false. The town you spawn in has both the White Crystal and the Holy Water. Both are required progression items (Holy Water is not immediately necessary, but it DOES allow you to get the hint to hit Orbs with Stakes). You don't start out with enough money to buy both, so unless you have some route that I'm not aware of, you will _need_ to grind then walk back. The grinding issue is further exasperated when you consider that you lose a lot of money when you get a game over, which is definitely going to happen to less skilled/knowledgeable players.
So with that in mind, let's talk about the time grinding actually takes. You mentioned it only takes 5 - 7 minutes. Let's assume for the sake of argument that is true (I haven't confirmed the numbers myself, and I assume you've played CV2 more recently than I). That _sounds_ like a small number until you consider the length and genre of the game you're playing. Cutting out the grinding, I'd estimate CV2 is only slightly longer than CV1, which you estimated was around 30 minutes to beat. That means that 5 - 7 minutes is actually a pretty significant portion of gameplay. Considering you might need to grind more than once to get necessary items, that means grinding takes up a pretty significant ratio of gameplay.
So alright. You might be asking. Why does Final Fantasy and Dragon's Quest get a pass for grinding, but Simon's Quest doesn't? Well, for me personally, I don't like either of those games for that very reason, but I also think jRPGs don't have the same goals that an action game does. jRPGs tend to be more leisurely and want you to take your time. That's probably why people take such an issue with the grinding in Simon's Quest; It's an action game where you spend a lot of time doing not-very-actiony things.
Last thing... This idea that the gullible masses were misled into hating CV2 thanks to a narrative pushed by a few select content creators is false and comes off as a bit condescending. The game got pretty mid reviews long before the AVGN and Egoraptor made their videos on the game. Contemporary professional critics at the time didn't like it very much (IE: Famitsu gave it a 28/40), and if you look at old GameFaqs reviews prior to AVGN, they tended to give it 7s and 8s with the occasional 3 or so. Not _terrible_, but the general consensus wasn't exactly enthusiastic either, and in most people's eyes a 7 out of 10 or lower may as well be "bad game". I think a more reasonable argument would be that the game already had a pretty mediocre reception, and that the AVGN and Egoraptor merely gave clarity to people's thoughts and magnified the issues that were already there to begin with.
On that note... I get wanting to push back on harmful false narratives (3D Sonic being terrible is a narrative I wish could be expunged), but to me it feels like you are downplaying/ignoring the game's flaws too hard in an attempt to rehabilitate its image. You make very little mention of the actual level design or enemy placement - two very big issues that exist even if you were to fix everything else - and you say things like the bosses are trivial "with the right equipment", which feels a bit sneaky and dishonest, since it suggests going in without the right equipment makes them an actual challenge. With the exception of Dracula, the bosses are almost always trivial even without the "right equipment". Even when they aren't trivial, they are still boring.
All in all, the video is well made, but I don't think the picture it paints of Simon's Quest is very honest. To me personally, I think Simon's Quest should be respected for the influence and legacy it had on gaming, but left in the past as a pivotal experiment that led to much better games in the future.
It wasn't influencers and memes that soured me into this game. It was playing it the way it wanted me to, running like a headless chicken on the absurdly esoteric advice of hobos and hidden books, throwing holy water at every other brick to uncover secret walls and avoid invisible pitfalls.
What for? The bad ending.
I love Circle of the Moon, the genre itself is not the issue, the shift is. I understand everyone who was resistant to Simon's Quest and Symphony of the Night on release. Castlevania was a milestone in gaming, having it followed by this was incredibly disheartening. Specially seeing so many other developers, eventually including Konami themselves, fail to scratch the classic Castlevania itch.
Giving up on the intentionality of movement and the cruel fairness in level design that made the original game worth emulating is giving up the sensation of playing at the edge of hope and despair that made this Universal Horror rock opera fever dream a gothic masterpiece.
"Nobody is invalidated, but nobody is right"
The Colonel, MGS2
Summary: Game is not good, play the patch
11:40 Don't you mean Vampire Killer on the MSX2?
16:04 Literally anything after the first one that's considered a sequel to something makes it a franchise. This is such a moot point.
18:10 Dude, you start with 50 hearts and you need better gear to combat the tougher enemies that come out at night. Not to mention that you get more health and take less damage, so grinding is your best option. Also, you should probably mention how you only get points depending on where you're at on the map. If you grind in the beginning area and get to level 1, you can't get anymore points. You can only get more points by going to the areas that lead to the next mansion.
18:59 It may not be required, but it's recommended because it will make it easier. You can grind in mansions since being inside a building freezes the timer.
23:29 "It subverted my expectations!"
27:10 Yeah, I'm not blaming RUclipsrs for being the primary reason why everyone thinks the game sucks. Anyone who does this, I'm immediately assuming that you're coping and insecure.
36:42 This is not the original text in the game, this is a translation by a third party. The original text is "Hold a red crystal in front of Deborah cliff and wait for a wind." strategywiki.org/wiki/Castlevania_II:_Simon%27s_Quest/Mistranslations_and_re-translation
The problem with Castlevania 2 is that it's not a sequel to Castlevania, it's a sequel to Vampire Killer
I am certain nobody told us that back in the day. :)
The problem with it is lack of any difficulty, lack of any kind of bosses beyond 1 which can be easily stun locked, the awful day night transitions, so many screens of nothing, so many empty castles of nothing. The problems aren't that it was on NES soul they couldn't but just that they didn't for whatever reason. It was never a bad game, its an extremely uninteresting game
@@lutherheggs451 Hey now, that's not true. There's a whopping 3 bosses (1 of which is optional but fairly useful) which can be easily stunlocked.
I remember playing Simon's Quest before I had internet, and when I saw Egoraptor's review, that's when I truly learned that not all sources on the internet can be trusted.
Dang it, Rox, I only just got out of my last "listening to nothing but NIN" phase.
When Simon's Quest came out I was in first grade and my parents would occasionally rent an NES over the weekend. I absolutely loved Simon's Quest even though it was too hard for me to get very far. I loved the open-endedness. I would draw pictures of it between playing. I went to school one day and a kid I looked up to who was a fifth grader told me "Simon's Quest Sucks" but could not tell me why. It was a common sentiment at the time and I still don't know why to this day. I think looking back it may be because it had words to read.
19:03 its really strange how so many games get a reputation as a grindfest when youd naturally get the right amount of experience through just playing normally
Like less old rpgs than youd think are actually like this, though i cannot speak for dragon quest and final fantasy themselves as someone not that into either
Dragon Quest was really bad about needing to grind in the old days, but by 4 it wasn't horrid. NES Final Fantasies always had "points" where you had to grind a little to go foreward reasonably but they were never grind fests. Well unless the bugs made things hard *glares at FF1*.
I feel like the old school rpgs are hit hard with a grinding reputation they don't generally deserve due to the Marsh Cave in ff1. It's early on in the game so most people get there, and the dungeon is too big, probably with the intention that you'll accept not finding everything. But commonly, players will stop and grind until they can somewhat comfortably explore and get all the treasure in the Marsh Cave...
.... And then they are consistently overlevelled and not really threatened by anything for the rest of their run, maybe not counting the final boss and a specific optional boss.
I have no integrity, if a beautiful youtube essayist tells me something, I'll unquestionably agree with them. Btw you're right, gorgeous, Castlevania 2 really * IS * a misunderstood gem.
Aww shucks, the video got released a bit too late for me to watch it out by the lake today. :/
Will most definitely give it a full watch tomorrow though, and load up with some beer and whisky for the occasion.
Whenever I play this I think of Blondie's "Heart of Glass", but change the lyrics=
"I once drank blood, it wasn't so bad.
Soon found out, I had the heart of Vlad..."
I want to start off by saying that this was a nicely edited video and also that I do enjoy Simon's Quest. Unfortunately, this video does hardly anything whatsoever to make a strong case for the game. Everything covered in this video is all based on concepts and hand-waving things away. There is next to nothing in terms of HOW these things were implemented. Keep in mind, I'm on your side. Please do not inject a harsh tone into my words because this comment isn't out of anger, it's based on wanting to give Simon's Quest the best chance it can get.
So, there are unfortunately barely any arguments made within this video to prove your point. From what I gather, the point of the video is to prove that the game is good, but WHERE is the section about...playing the game? Not what the game has, not what ideas went into it, not the goal that Konami was going for, but how it feels to play through it.
We have the music section, which consists of covers of Bloody Tears and no dedicated section to the various tracks within the game. Instead, we're being told the music is great (of which I agree), without being given proof of the tracks within the game itself. Putting covers of a single track from the OST doesn't prove your point, unfortunately.
We have the section where the video attempts to debunk criticisms of the game itself. Ok, now we're talking! Wait...how many minutes was spent on the color of Simon? Couldn't that time have been used to, I don't know, talk about how the game plays? There's a little bit about grinding for 5 minutes at the start of the game, then there's the issue with the translation, which I will cover in another paragraph. Where's the information about the mansions? About the bosses being too easy (especially Dracula, which was one of AVGN's complaints about the game)? About having to liberally use the holy water to fumble around the mansions (another common criticism.) About the water section with the moving blocks where the player has to figure out the proper way to jump just for that particular section (another criticism I've seen)? I hope you can understand my frustration as I watch this and what you decide to cherry pick to defend is what color clothing Simon is wearing, which has nothing to do with the actual game itself or how it plays. Even defending the grind doesn't do anything to help prove that the gameplay is good. The answer to the townspeople giving obtuse hints (somewhat due to translation errors) is to patch the game...which does absolutely nothing to help the case that the original NES version is good. Your answer cannot be "get a better version of it" to prove that it isn't bad.
The part with the translation is something that was not handled well at all. Totally fine to point out that some of the nonsense that the NPCs had to say was actually a 1:1 translation of what gamers in Japan also got. However, gamers in Japan didn't get obtuse riddles mixed in with their NPC nonsense lines. When you have both, what you now are stuck with is trying to figure out which NPCs had something worth saying, then trying to figure out what the thing that was worth saying actually meant. The people that love this game are people that have already stumbled through the game and know what they're doing now (like myself.)
Where is the section dedicated to this being one of the first games to have a time sensitive ending? Wherein how long it takes the player to beat the game affects which ending they get? Why is there no information that being within the mansions freezes time within the game world, so the player is free to grind til their heart's content while being in a mansion, not having to worry about it counting against their time for the best ending? Hell, where IS the section dedicated to the mansions? A Simon's Quest video without covering the mansions is like a Zelda II video without covering the palaces. Not even a nod to what the point of the game even is, which is to traverse the world in search of said mansions, explore them to find an orb that you hit with an oak stake in order to grab pieces of Dracula in order to revive him and destroy him along with the curse he put onto Simon. Again, there's nothing in here about what it's like to play the game. Instead, it's all about what ideas went into the game.
Simon's Quest was the first Castlevania to launch this series into the Search Action genre, true. Awesome. How well was it implemented? For example: how is the backtracking?
Simon's Quest was one of the first games to have a day/night cycle. Cool. How well was it implemented?
Simon's Quest has an inventory system. Great. How well was it implemented? For example: is there bloat?
You can start to see how this video was really just based on ideas/concepts and not on what it's like to actually play the game, which is what disappoints me the most. I'm actually in an odd camp where I find Symphony of the Night to be sluggish and boring, but I absolutely enjoy playing Simon's Quest.
So even after watching this entire video, I ask you this: what, in this video, proves that everyone* is wrong? The way I see it, nobody thought Simon's Quest was a bad idea. AVGN actually thought it was a cool idea, very Zelda-like. The issue people have is it's not a good game to play. This video does nothing to refute that, in its almost hour-long runtime. Having a good concept does not mean having a good game.
Simon's Quest was one of the first games i played after i got my nes in 1990. Its hard to remember my first impression of it, but I'll try.
1. I thought it could have been a longer game.
2. I thought it was a little too easy. (I finished it before learning it had multiple endings in only a weekend)
3. I hated waiting on the day-night transitions of slow print text.
Other than this, I liked the different direction it had taken.
Later, i hacked this title fixing a lot of issues like the people giving you misleading hints, the day night text issue. (If you are interested in playing it i called it castlevania ii day night hack, uploaded to zophar's domain years ago)
Long story short i sort of became obsessed with Simon's Quest and still love it for what it was.
A incomprehensible game with a fan mod is better, who would have guessed?
I've always enjoyed Simon's Quest. There's so many things about the game that made it stand out. The open exploration, the monsters, the characters. It felt like a fleshed out world we were immersed in at the time.
It's too bad that it got such a bad rap years later. Personally, I think Simon's Quest is the quintessential Speedrunner's wet dream since it also challenges the player to complete the story in the quickest time possible to achieve the best ending. Granted, the challenge rating was ramped up when ported to the US.
Great video. I hope that more gamers can appreciate what Simon's Quest brought to the table and perhaps enjoy it like I did when I was younger. :)
The big reason people on the internet disliked Simon’s Quest is that they weren’t playing it on original hardware on a CRT. Emulating the game had a weird drawback where it cut part of the screen off. On original hardware and a CRT, you could see the tip of the blocks under the fake lake indicating there was something down there. Leading to you naturally crouching down at the edge, and if you had the blue crystal equipped you would start the animation to reveal the hidden staircase. That doesn’t happen on modern hardware. The lake looks like every other lake in the game. Crucial detail is missing.
This is cool to know.
I play the game on the phone and the emulator I use does give an option of how I want to crop the screen .
So to me it was never a problem .
I played it on a 32" RCA a few times back then. It seems to me emulators show more not less. But old CRTs with a real NES certainly have less lag and better experience.
Great timing. I just started playing Simon's Quest and already found out, that one has to finish it in under one (in game) week to see the good ending. Your video was a great reinforcement of my good first impressions of the game. Thanx for that!
I just love Halloween III: Season of the Witch. But people refusing new things doom the series to stagnation.
Dude same!!! I’ve always felt the Halloween series should’ve been an anthology past 3 with other different Halloween stories, maybe keeping the theme of masks throughout. Michael’s story feels completed in the first two movies to me.
@@chibishortdeath Thats why im so sad that people prefer to watch anabel part 22 and Paranormal Activity part 50 instead of demanding more movies like Trick 'r Treat or scary stories to tell in the dark. Perfect movies? No. AMAZING movies to watch on halloween? Fuck Yes.
I love so much the anthology trope on halloween movies.