Old School Comms in an Age of Censorship and Surveillance
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2020
- Some people would consider 100+ year old technology outdated and obsolete. We argue that field/sound powered telephone technology might be just what the doctor orders when it comes to the world of surveillance and censorship that we now live in.
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the biggest problem with wire (besides distance comms) is that if one covert node is discovered, then the whole network, and all associated persons, are blown
They interesting for temporary comms … (a) run them up & down a trench, and use them like “Walkie Talkies” but no one can sniff the radio signal. (b) imporant enough command units can just send a runner with a long wire, make a call, then rewind then wire as soon as it’s done. bit of work, but pretty secure. 😂
Most practical when you're at the point of having manned OPs in a perimeter, or installed permanently between a cluster of homes in a rural location.
My great uncle was on a field training exercise once, and used his field phone to tap into a phone line. He was able to ring up the operator, and it took a bit for them to understand he wasn't using a regular phone, but they needed a phone number for the bill, so he gave them the serial number of the field phone, and they patched him through to his wife. I'm not sure if you can get away with that these days, though. Probably get the FCC after you in a heartbeat.
Things that never happened for 1000
@@JRasS14 it’s possible
@@ericjill8024 def possible
Idk how it will work today everything being digital
@@JRasS14
Back when everything was analog it was possible, nowadays not so much. Read an old version of the Anarchist's Cookbook, you'll see how easy it was to hack a phone.
My father is a Korean war vet, he had a field telephone; I spent half my childhood playing with that thing, for all I know he still has it in his attic; hope so. great vid thanks.
My best friend and I strung a hard wired communication setup from my bedroom window, to his bedroom window right across the street. It consisted of two telephone type handsets powered by C celled batteries and a bunch of wire. It cleared high clearance vehicles driving through the neighborhood like the school bus. We could press a button to give the other person a ring. I’m not sure what a more professional application of it would be. I’m 52 now, and the setup was way older than I am and it really didn’t seem to be a “toy”, although my friend and I weren’t even in high school yet, and used it somewhat as a toy, I guess.
Cool childhood.!!
Couple of “pro tips” for your wire.
You will loose some range on earth ground if your already pushing the max capability, earth ground has more resistance than wire.
Always add stress reliefs to wire. This is just loosely tying a loop in the wire at each end and hooking it to a steak or nail, something that keeps someone from tripping on your wire and damaging equipment.
If possible improvise a way to shuck up a cordless drill to the spool. If you have to collect up the wire in a hurry (lots of reasons why) a drill will make a 20 minute process a 1 minute process.
Field telephones are extremely easy to use and are still fielded by the usmc
Wiredogs aren't a thing anymore
@@imswiney56 we still use them in my unit mostly with gun lines for mortars
Yup. Can't be RDF'd if you aren't using a radio.
The Canadian Army uses them on bases, FOBs or fixed positions.
@@JohnNipman we were using them in Arty between the FDC and each gun on the gun line as late as 2009.
Excellent video! Being a retired Navy guy, I cant tell you how indespensable sound powered phone Comms was aboard ship. Even with all of the technology aboard ships now a days, I dare to say that for the Weapons Department and Damage Control Party's/Damage Control Central, Sound Powered phones made up the bulk of our communications.
Stay tuned to 1JA. 😆
I gonna be honest. You can spend several hundred dollars on field phones or take some old corded phones, a 9v, and a resistor and make an intercom system. If you need more power or range, run batteries in series and/or change the resistor. For the same price, you could build a dozens kits and buy a farday cage to store the out of use items. Also modern low voltage cable has plenty of conductors to work with. Some 18/2 or cat5 effectively means you only have to run 1 line, not to mention the plethora of jacks and cables to be salvaged around you.
The original version of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) had no back door for the NSA. There are plenty of old 386/486 computers still gathering dust in attics, flea markets, and thrift store, including old portable computers, that all run on windows 3.1/95 that would run PGP natively. They also don't have the chip sets and BIOS to "phone home" or create a back door for three letter agencies every time they are used. PGP was a simple enough program that if it doesn't run on modern systems, it should be able to be ported. There is a lot more to the internet than just the web, and the old systems and even a number of the local bulletin boards, are still in place, allowing for data transfer even on a dial-up modem. Just a bit of trivia from an old geezer who was around in those days.....
We were still using field phones in mid 2000’s when setting up screen lines and OP’s. We connected a platoon or more of M3 Bradleys and OP’s to field phone wires so we could all communicate without broadcasting. I wish I acquired a couple TA-1’s back then.
Consulting the older field phone manuals will give some ideas for non-wire commo, such as use of buried pipes, train rails, etc, as well as a single wire, with ground return. From “Boy Mechanic - Book 1, page 432, you can communicate via ground water (or a body of water) up to 2 miles, with ground return, which is early 1900s technology. Intercept-able, perhaps, but not generally known of.
Wow I wish I understood this stuff. I can just about use a cb radio.
I just found this book as a pdf for free online
@@naawakweoseindizhinakaaz2052 woah! Sweet, found it and now I have it also! Thank you so much for the tip!! 🤠👍🏻💯
The Army *still* uses TA-1 and field phones to this very day, especially in tank platoons.
Every M1A1 or M1A2 tank has a TA-1 on it along with a spool of steel commo wire. The LP/OP goes out 100-300 meters in front of the tank and digs in his position. Then wire is run out and hooked up to the TA-1 in the LP/OP position. The back end of the wire is patched in to the tank's intercom system so everyone in the tank can hear the TA-1.
Sometimes the tanks will form a loose coil and run steel wire from intercom to intercom so all tanks can talk together without having to transmit over the radio. This is especially done when a tank company puts itself in the defense. Platoon leader tanks will run wire to the company commander's tank and their platoon tanks run wire to them. Then every tank is talking to each other without having to transmit over the radio. It just works.
On 9-11 I was stationed in Germany. Saw the planes smash into the towers in the BDE CDR's office and he called everyone in and we locked down the post and tossed out everyone not actually in the Army.
On that day we ran steel wire between BDE HQs and BN HQs as well as between BN HQs and CO HQs to prevent any classified traffic from going over unsecure phone lines. It just worked.
One use for this system is in anti RDF. Some friends who have passed loved to run pirate raido stations they used an old nam era field phone to connect to two or more repeater transcivers that they built from radio shack parts. When the battery's died or a transmitter was found they would unhook their phone and disappear. Amazing what Uncle Sam used to teach
Considering the time/era of introduction, the electronics of these units should be able to be duplicated. Since many of us have at least some electrical knowledge, is there any build plans for such a device? Either from scratch or by modifying an old analog phone handset?
YES! inquiring minds want to know!
Analog phones rely on a very simple technology: if you connect two analog phones and a 12V battery all in series, you already have the communication you desired (the expected working distance is something about 3-4km using standard household telephone cable or something more using better cables such as the military cable suggested in the video)...... the main problem is.... you have the communication if both handsets are lifted, but you don't have the ringer!
you need something capable of about 100 to 250V at about 30 to 80 Hz to generate the ring that can be generated using an hand cranked generator (field telephones uses hand crank generators too), which can be built using a microwave oven motor (and, of course, a crank)
To arrange a very simple ring generator, a people can simply disconnect his phone from the closed loop line and connect the AC generator instead; this can be made in a pinch by using a dual throw switch to select either the phone or the generator.
Of course, you don't need to dial the number, so you can remove the dial to free some space for the generator, the batteries and the switch (or leave the phone unmodified and place the generator, the batteries and the switch on a separate box instead).
@@teslacoiler Great reply. This is what I was looking for!
Since the ring signal wire is in place with household type wiring, what about installing a LED lamp, or dedicated beep/buzz component to run on 12v on that lead? It would need to he done on all handsets in that network but a red light and a noise maker (could switch that if needed) would suffice. I'm going to have to pick up a couple (identical) handsets and give them the big clive teardown.
@@mattfleming86 The solution i provided was the most common one (which is by the way, 100% compatible with surplus military phone and 50% compatible with standard landline phones, which of course are able to respond to a call but not make a call) which is also very easy to build using commonly available electric scrap materials, but of course, this is not the only one!
Providing that the communication itself is the easiest task, you can use your fantasy for the ringer.
You could leave the line unpowered and make a ringer that detect the line voltage (in this case, you need batteries on both sides)
You can send the ringer signal by reversing the polarity of the line (voice transmission works with both polarities)
You can send some special tones on the line (much more difficult to implement, but in this case you can connect multiple phones on the same line and made a selective call between them).
You can use your fantasy....... but keep in mind that the line resistance is quite high (telephone lines uses long cables with very thin gauges), you need something that draws very little current (or use quite high voltages, in the same way as the common landlines) otherwise the voltage drop across the line will be too much and the ringer will refuse to work.
@@teslacoiler As you suggested, I think a transistor/mosfet would be the answer there- so that the signal device could be powered on the recieving end from a signal sent by the caller. Amperage would be more tolerable. Over distance low voltage AC would likely be better, but then you are building a power source just to send signal. Lot to think about here- but the surplus stuff is getting rare and pricey. Plus none of the people I would desire to communicate with have military phones (well, one might. he does amateur radio so I could be making an assumption. Either way this feels like a fun project to tinker on maybe this winter. Thanks for the chat!
In rural settings, the top electric fence wire can do double duty by cutting power whenever you want to use the phone and there is nothing suspicious about stringing a fence wire. There are also ways to do this at the same time that the fence is electrified
The TA-313/PT and TA-1/PT are compatible.
Set the 312 to Local Battery (LB), switch to Internal (INT), and connect wires correctly to the TA-1.
Ensure the TA-1 has been “reset” (the ring indicator is not showing, depress the PPT button to reset).
Spin the generator wheel on the 312 (ring indicator will show on the TA-1, speak clearly through the transmitter on the 312 and listen for voice through the receiver on the TA-1.
To speak from the TA-1 to the 312, ensure the phone is docked, rapidly press the generator lever on the TA-1 (the buzzer will sound on the 312). Pick up the H-60 phone and listen.
Love your videos, by the way.
Im really sad i am almost at the end of all the videos for this channel. Every episode has been extensively informative. Thank to you s2 underground for making such information so palatable.
time to do the things
I'm gonna go back and binge-watch everything from S2 Underground.
Dead drops and pidgons
one time pad encryption + pigeons = win
Lay that magnet wire with an FPV rc car!
Run a TDR on that line from time to time - if it changes, have your buddy disconnect, then hook up a HV source to clear the reflection.
Thats really cool to learn about, thanks for sharing!
If you haven't looked into Meshtastic thats a cool alternative that falls in line to this off-grid style of communications.
It's low emission/encrypted coms that can line of sight, reach up to 700 kilometers with the right antenna. (it's like sms messaging with GPS)
It cost about 30 bucks to buy too :).
Absolutely, we use Meshtastic quite a bit! We actually talk about it in this episode: ruclips.net/video/mAb2fsc_wbA/видео.html Such an awesome technology!
I’ve seen Lineman use these. My crew and I have communicated from one pad mount transformer to another using field telephones. Obviously that poses some risks, and takes a small amount of know -how but it’s a valid consideration. On that note, I believe there may be some unexplored possibilities in regards to utilizing utility poles and lines for alternative logistical purposes.
For ta-312
Emergency Sound Power Operation
If no battery supply is available, it is possible to transmit for approximately 4 miles by using the receiver (ear speaker, not the microphone) element as a sound-powered transmitter element.
Signal by turning the handcrank rapidly a few turns
Speak directly into the receiver element, then listen while the distant party is transmitting.
Thank you so much for this info man. I don't even know how I stumbled across this channel but you share some invaluable info.
Up till I left the army in 1999, we were still using TA-312's an TA-1's. stringing them with WD-1 wire. Within a secure perimeter like a TOC they were great. Also leading out the perimeter to LPOP's
One note on the single wire method; it exposes a vulnerability if anyone knows you have the phone because the earth will conduct signal to them as well, so it's possible to simply jam theirs into the ground and listen, another lesson learned in WWI. Highly unlikely anyone would know to do that, know you have them, and also happen to own a field telephone, but anyway, that's why two wires are preferred: comsec
My Facebook account got deleted because I wouldn't give them my phone number, it said I broke some community guidelines but the only thing I ever did was look at stuff about drag racing. But everytime I signed in it would ask for my phone number and I wouldn't give it to them.
Was banned 03-July-20 and haven’t been happier. Screw FB.
I deleted all my social media accounts last year. Don't miss it at all.
I thought it was drag racing, tuned In, all I got was transvestites..
@@nickv1008 lol
@@nickv1008 lol, yeah, gotta be careful nowdays
You can use a regular wired telephone that can get its power from a nine volt battery, put a choke in series(a low voltage winding from a 6 volt transformer works well)...the telephone won't ring..but, if you use regular telephone wire, you can rig a bell in the extra 2 wires.
Brilliant. Thanks for making these videos.
I love the info you put out. Keep it coming.
We used the TA-1 as the platoon phone in the Infantry H series MTO&E. They were fielded 4 per platoon, one for each squad and one for the platoon HQ. We also had a small switchboard an SB 993 that had plastic "crystals" with pins on one end and holes on the other. The crystals lit up when a call was coming in. You hooked them together to connect the different lines or you could hook the platoon up in a hot loop with all the phones on the same circuit. I wasn't aware they didn't work with the TA-312s. We talked to the company CP on them and they had a 312 in the company CP. Maybe the SB22 switchboard they had in the company CP made them compatible.
Thank you very good info. Much appreciated.cheers
In 06-07 we were still using ta-312s in Iraq. It was a backup to radios, also a way to keep business within our troop, and not use radios for minor logistics issues that a Sgt of the guard could handle. It also helped keep the guys awake at night on their little party line, and killed a lot of boredom.
Great info thank you for your contribution.
Replying to this in late summer 2022
We've have a handful of solar storms producing the northern lights visible into Ohio already, this summer.
For reference, usually the lights aren't visible in the continental US during the summer, period.
We're in a high activity year, on an upswing which will last 2 to 3 years.
Another tech that you can use in place of a field phone is modern phone line testing gear. In the phone line industry we used a pulse generator to test lines and connections. Going with one side to ground actually increases the signal strength. A small, like 3"×3"×1" box with double A batteries that costs less than $20, can generate a solid tone or undulating tone down a wire to a little speaker box. If we heard the tone, good, if not look for thy break. Everything else is effectively the same as the field phone. Could easily send Morse code.
If you live in a large building or complex, there's likely to be abandoned, unused, telephone system in the complex that could handle this type of communication
Field telephones are used in the Russian-Ukrainian conflict by both sides for the reasons mentioned in the video. They are either found in stock or purchased from China (e.g. KO-TXA-1).
Thanks for the video!
Cool stuff. Thank you.
Thank you
In rural areas fencing can be used as pre-laid wire it used to be common to call the next farm this way
Apartment building, and commercial buildings that were wired for conventional landline telephone service typically each apartment or commercial space had dedicated copper wires running to a communication closet on each floor then each closet on each floor wired to the basement where the cable running to the central office interconnects to those wires. The Bell System gave the wiring to the building owner and in most cases those wires have been abandoned. One can utilize old telephone wires for communications or remote controls. Connecting a field phone or a conventional to wire intercom is a nice application and unlike Bluetooth or Wi-Fi doesn't utilize radio frequencies "RF".
You treat radio like food in the wilderness. Keep it away from your bed.
Field telephones are also handy in modern conflicts now because any wireless emission sources can be triangulated and hit with an artillery barrage.
If we have a Carrington event it can take out these too, as far as I know. When the last one occurred in 1860 it melted the telegraph wires... However if the wire is not connected to anything I think it's pretty safe. I am not sure about if its a man made EMP... For very secure maybe creating a EMP hardened handsets connected via fibre optic or maybe if line of site you can even use Infrared lasers (but it's less secure). I know it's not as basic and simple - hence not as tough but for data comms and voice etc could be good in more permanent locations.
brilliant stuff
You can also take 2 handsets from old- school telephones(from before the advent of cell phones), connect a 9 volt battery in series with them. Works loud and clear.
Interesting. Never thought of field phones in a civilian scenario.
Welcome to the new s2 club,the hardcore kids in the back everyone counted out,going back in s2's brain and seeing what we can build/do now. Welcome those like me here going back to learn what s2 tried to open my eyes about and I stupidly skipped over. Bottom line. You don't know everything,skills are ever changing. Don't become complacent. Best luck mates.
Re: ground return: single wire with ground return will emit more signal to the air than twisted pair. It is true not many people would be looking for this signal (less than 10KHz). Also wired transmission has to be installed ahead of time and buried as a wire line going through the trees might stick out to someone looking for people in the trees. So not very mobile.
the average prepper/american family isnt very mobile either unfortunately
Has anyone considered building sound powered phones out of modern off the shelf components?
I do consider it, but i have other projects to do first. The ringer can be spring loaded so that you don't need a big generator for the ringer. The rest is a switch, a battery, a microphone and a speaker. You can make it work without bateries, but i think it's a bit more complicated.
I had a toy field phone that worked with a crystal microphone. No batteries, was hard to hear... Late 50s, maybe 1960.
I used plastic cortelco phones and a nine volt. It works. And crazy cheap.
@@jackshyt4 Thanks for the suggestion!
@@jackshyt4
Would this work with modern automated telephone intranet switchboards for use in office buildings?
Apparently as far back as the Vietnam War, at least the US Military had access to tech that can wirelessly capture wired connections. As far as I can tell the simple explanation is that a signal is sent out and affected in particular ways depending on the signal going through the wire. They would make the devices to look like bamboo and would drop them out of choppers along enemy com lines like spears into the ground and leave it. I talked to the guy that helped design it one night long ago when I just happened to be hypothesizing doing the same exact thing. It may have been BS, but I don't think so the guy isn't like that and is no bum that is for sure. Just figured I would share hard to tell what they have now.
Very interesting video that reminds me of call of duty black ops 1 vibes.
I love low tech stuff. This is cool -even just as a hobby, like collecting rocks.
Might not be a bad idea, collecting rocks that is. Einstein did say world war 4 would be fought with them.
4 miles of wire probably costs more than an APX-8000 these days
Works great for com between the farm house barn and shop
I know a person that knows a person that belongs to an underground communication network, they use HF radio CW mode, they can and do send and recieve coded messages almost every day world wide.
Set in place to put into action when the goverments turns agents the citizens.
An SB-22 switchboard, or other old battery-powered switchboard, located at a central hub would make this system much less "party line" and more "dialable" (field phones tend to have ringing reliability issues in a party line) to get the location you need to talk to. Of course that would require an operator to be on duty 24/7 when the sHTF, or at the very least someone checking the switchboard periodically during norm-ops... Vintage analog Military switchboards are becoming scarce, though.
Modern corporate intranet telephone systems use essentially telephone switchboards run via automation without human input to build out the internal phone network. Switches are more or less automated switchboards but for Internet traffic.
I wonder if it would be possible to either use modern corporate wired telephone systems as field telephones or pair modern automated switchboards with old-school telephones.
Yea, the one thing about building a community network with the old phones that, I haven’t heard you talk about is the switchboard operator. When you have numerous line connections with multiple phones you need the switch board operator or a switch board panel to route the calls. Any more than two phones requires a switchboard. Right? I was waiting for that input or did you guys figure out how to have half a dozen phones all connected with out one? If you’re talking original equipment then the field switchboard has to be included in the discussion used as part of the method of operation. The switchboard was part of the training in setting up, OEM WW II tech as well as Korean and Vietnam OEM equipment.
Look into the old "party line telephones" and see how they worked
There used to be intercom devices that used the power lines for voice. Now power companies use it for digital communication. But are they monitoring ..?
I communicate through a solo cup on a string to a solo cup located in my neighbor's house. EMP proof, unjammable, and tap proof
Most home landline phones are useless when the power goes down as telephone companies no longer have backup batteries. The noose is tightening. I wonder what uncle taxman is up to.
The earth return concept is simply Using "ground". The positive side is on the phone, and the earth is negative
Wouldn't be hard to make one either. Gel cell battery, hand generator, corded phones standard phone or cat5 cabling re-terminated.
I just this video today (2023 ) I last a TA-312 in 1973. Good equipment. In your neighborhood layout, how do you call a certain individual? Thanks for the video.
NO TRUER WORDS: "I CAN'T SPEAK INTELLIGENTLY ON THIS ..."
Telephone lines themselves were common on one unshielded wire in the 1900's
I have always had a giggle thinking about the consumption of the VPN mindset. Where instead of relying on decentralized and multi-layered encryption of whatever different applications or programs run thru our computers are then funneled all thru one network channel that would seem to me as far more easy to get all of your info than just what you send thru one app that's compromised.
"Papa Bear to Goldilocks...then hen has left the henhouse...how copy"? :>)
hand held radios dont work in a ship the are useable on the exterior but not great. the RN still has sound powered phones calling to HQ1 and the bridge in most compartments
AA to D cell adapters exist as well then you can use rechargeable AA Sanyo enloop ect.
Someone should look into a blackberry that operates on LoRA radio 915mhz and 433mhz for texting and radio. You could use satellites for repeaters or select which repeaters you want to talk to. O the possibilities with a software defined blackberry.
Do you have any info on a small scale private branch exchange?
Do you know if the TA-312 US field phone will work with other field phones like the German field phones?
Yes they will interoperate
Sets of cordless (house phones) can still phone each other if not fixed to a network all you need is the main hub
...21 has followed 20 for as long as I remember, whether you write it with a pen, pencil or even the new copper Crayola crayons (they don't have to be sharp, we can touch them up with a few bites)...
Laser links can also work
The navy uses sound powered phones still
👍 old school commo, 31C V9. I set up a few TA312s and SB22s back in the 80s. Oh, and yes the TA312 can be used with out the batteries.
Doesn't fit all the criteria but what about laser transmission? If you have line of sight you can transmit a beam 3-4" in diameter that is very difficult to detect and jam. Some IR wavelengths can pass through fog to some extent.
Did you just said that what's upp is secure? Lol
Where would you advise buying these?
You said "download our comms card" what does that mean?
For the guys that gave this a thumbs up, it's on their website.
In the hindsight of 2024 stelate of technology isn't field telephone finally become absolete and (by a large part) superseded by MESH networks and LoRa devices?
Wouldnt they just turn off ADS-B so you wouldnt pick anything up?
Ah. Still alive.
Local battery magneto phones way to go
I got a kick out of the ironic compatibility part
security by obscurity is great, until it isn't
Can you hook a phone modem on the line?
Does anyone have current pricing on this TA1, and or TA-312? Prices all over the map.
Question: could it be easily detected and/or could it be buried and shielded from detection?
Run a shielded pair wire through a copper pipe
I wanna know where to find a working TA312 for that cheap lol
Does anyone have suggestions on where to find these phones for purchase? Also, how do you increase your chances of finding one that actually works if you do find one for sale?
You can get old-school analog phones that aren't military style, that can work just fine.
Can multiple field phones be hooked up without a switchboard?
Yes, it'll be open so everyone gets the ring, and everyone can listen. I don't know what the upper limit is, but I've seen 6 phones all on the same 1/2 mile long wire. Everyone just splices in where it runs through. Don't want to reuse thar wire afterward cause of all the exposed areas. But if it's semi-permanent no big deal
after shtf you could jack into the civilian phone lines
Maybe you could. If you had a good idea of which cable/count went where, you absolutely could use dead counts/spares. And there are still millions of miles of copper cables all over the US. I work on it every day.
I remember reading that americas spy planes can "listen in" on copper telephone lines from an aerial platform. Has anyone else heard of this? And it can be used to listen in on field telephone setups?
If your lines are shielded, it is unlikely
if they have a spyplane in the air while i call my neighbor to tell him the irs is going door to door we already cost them more money than they stood to gain
edit: that is very possible tho and frankly id love to see that wirk
No tech is ever totally obsolete
make it look like a 'cable install', maybe?
Please be mindful if you build your own network but talk with your cell phone in your pocket, you not being sneaky. Have good SA
Wait.... the TA-1/PT has batteries?
That means sound powered phone batteries exist? Mind blown.