Out of all the videos I've seen on youtube with people trying lost PLA casting, this was the best one, the casting came out perfect, and i think it's cause you know what you are doing!
I made plaster molds for some time at the fine arts school (25 years ago). The plaster to stay with a good consistency and without air bubbles is done in reverse. In a container of water, the plaster is sprinkled without stirring and allowing it to sink into the water until it reaches the top. For the most liquid plaster a water film of 1mm is left. Then it is mixed gently. The best results are obtained by first immersing the piece in a very liquid plaster. When you have a small layer, 1 or 2 mm, to cover the whole piece then you can fill the rest. Hope it helps and thanks for the videos.
I like the sander as a vibration table! Another trick is to submerge the master in water with a tiny amount of detergent as a flow aid, then remove all the bubbles first with a brush. It fills all the fine details with water which is then replaced by plaster.
It's almost like there are @ 25 people on RUclips who give everyone a thumbs down. No matter what...there's those 26 thumbs down on great videos. I have even wondered if maybe someone has programmed a few BOTS to just give thumbs down to everything.
Now that's a new departure from steam engines! The vase, by the way, is cool. Keep up the good work and the videos. I have an idea that Mrs. Myfordboy is going to have a lot of "honey do" projects for that new 3D printer.
Have you had a chance to look into wax filament and waxy PLA? I was unable to copy paste in this response window but if you search it you will find several. They are a little fiddley to zero to your printer but the print can be easily repaired or modified. The wax filament can be directly displace poured if done with the correct sprue manifold. Maybe you could try that before you end up having to resort to making a furnace oven for larger parts...By The Way GREAT VIDEO. Keep up the good work!
Nice work. You can spray debubbleizer on the model to help prevent surface bubbles. Jet-dry dishwasher anti-spotting agent can be used as debubbleizer. For the north American crowd Kerr made a good investment called Satin Cast.
Hello, I have been registered on your channel for a long time and I really like your work, I'm leaving a comment because I thought it was cool to use a product that bears the name of my family "plaster", heheheheh. This 3D machine is fantastic, pity that here in Brazil is very expensive due to the difference in value of the American currency with ours. A hug.
I've never seen it done that way, melting out the wax and plastic first. Others just poor the metal into the PLA and it smokes away. However, that seems like the gassing would be a problem. This way, there is nothing to vent. Very cool!
The problem with pouring the metal into a wax/PLA mold is that it release gas while melting, that ruins the casting. Lost wax casting have being done like that for millennia for a reason, no reason to change now.
I was thinking if it is possible to feed wax rods to the extruder. the wax could be mixed with some hardening additive. at the university lab we have a printer with high resolution that prints directly in wax. the models are great for centrifugal casting. The vases look beautiful:)
Did you ever try using green sand as a reusable mould material, You could then use the sander in a similar way to settle the sand particles into every crevice of the model and just scoop the cooled model out....... cut off the pour spout and tidy it up.
For larger models a 0%infill and thin 1 or 2 layer wall will mean less PLA to melt out. Also clear PLA has no additives and seems to burn out easier for larger objects. You can also just melt it out at much lower temps 300C upside down over mesh on supported bricks. (Can't reuse it though)
Just keep an eye on it, I believe PLA breaks down over time when exposed to water from everything I read. I haven't tested it personally though, I print in ABS.
There are thousands of model files on thingiverse. If you want to make your own design you need a 3D drawing package. How long to teach yourself depends on your ability. Lots of instruction videos on RUclips.
Onshape is a good 3D drawing package. It is free, and is cloud based, so you can use it anywhere there is WiFi, and on your phone or tablet. It will also convert your 3D rendering into a drawing, and convert complex shapes into flat projections for tinplate work.
I wonder how long it will take to write a program on the wheel for the model of the engine? I think the model is a hand tool made of wood, or foam will at the same time. Who knows? Write.
The wax is the proper stuff for lost wax casting. Not seen it a a toilet seal, in the UK the seals are done with fittings containing rubber fins. The industrial product is designed to withstand heat, plaster of paris is not.
I haven't used the lost wax casting stuff since high school, but I don't remember it having any powdery residue in it when it melted, maybe it was just the lighting, but your spoon looked like it had a residue under the liquid wax, our toilet seals are basically bee's was with a wee bit of chalk dust in it, at least that is how they melt. Reusable rubber seals are just starting to catch on here. ( finally! )
Hello, Do you see any difference in detail of the cast/ease of use/ investment compare to the traditional greensand casting ? Which method do you prefer ?
Greensand is quicker and easier as there is no investment to mix and burn out. Finish is maybe better with this method no draft is needed and it can be used when the pattern cannot be withdrawn from sand.
Can I add a suggestion to use a hollow offset print and core the inside so your statue is hollow? That would be a great video and you are just the guy to master it...
I wasn't sure if you could use PLA for investment models and get a clean burnout. You might try an extremely small tip and run some jewelry trees. That would probably score more brownie points with Mrs. M than the vase. =)
As long as you can work with the original drawing or design your own pattern, you can add the sprue, vents and pouring cup all at the same time and in the original material. This gets you away from having to attach separate gating to your pattern.
Great stuff! The sander use is genius :D Could you print the robot and the PLA gate hollow, so the metal has to melt less plastic, so stays hotter for longer and also less impurities from the molten/burnt PLA?
Sorry, i had commented too soon! I now realise you melt out the PLA, I had originally assumed you would pour the molten metal onto the PLA and the metal would burn off the plastic. Now I understand - and of course if I can think of it, you've thought of it twice! :)
@@YensR that is lost shell PLA casting which is a shortcut but you get noxious gas and from what I've seen, the surface finish is not as good as other methods with plaster and burn out the PLA or wax
I know that for a one off, this is a good method. But would it be worthwhile to make a silicon mold out of the PLA part and use it to make lost wax castings? I mean the time spent to make the 3d model would make a number of wax castings. Or even better, skip the silicon and make a mold from the PLA for the wax. I feel like a troll because I don't even have a foundry, but the dumb question is the one not asked. If anyone is offended, I apologize. Thanks for the fine video.
It's no trouble to make many prints once the CAD model is made. Many can be printed at the same time if they would fit the printer bed. Just start it off and walk away. You would have trouble getting a way casting from a solid 3D printed mould.
@@myfordboy There is some miscommunication that must be my fault. I was thinking of creating a two part molds with the negative image in them to make the lost wax castings. You could print as many of those as would fit on your print bed just like copies of CAD file. You could pour wax in them and create many copies. Two part molds will allow of production of many copies without using up more expensive PLA. I also surfed for silicon molds from PLA and found silicon casting of metal and found video about casting pewter in silicone, but it did not seem to allow for copies to be made. Kind of a single use thing. Now the question is there an easy way to take an OBJ or STL file to create the molds. The closest I have come across on Thingiverse is cookie cutters, but as I type this, I realize I have not looked up candle molds which would be similar to what I am discussing. I like your idea and now it is taking me down the rabbit hole looking for how to go beyond it. Many thanks.
The 2 part PLA mould will only work if the model shape is suitable and has draft and no undercuts sothe wax can be removed. A silicone mould is flexible and can be pealed off. PLA patterns need some finishing to get rid of the layer lines BUT I have a new resin printer that gives an absolutely smooth finish. Look out for the video at the weekend.
@@myfordboy Sounds really good. I looked 3d candle molds on RUclips and I am now buried in learning how the negative image is created. Looking forward to seeing more of your videos. Many many thanks for your hard work.
You can create a negative mould by importing the STL file into CAD, covert the file to STEP and enclose it in a 2 part block and subtract the model from the block.
When I've tried casting aluminum into a plaster mold it fractures the plaster. I've heated in an oven to drive out moisture, but the wife gets mad and I STILL fracture the mold! Does the green sand bed help to avoid that, or did you use a certain technique? Love your videos!
Justin Tobin He is using investment plaster which likely has a silica sand base. I add silica sand to the plaster for my castings and the mold crack much less.
If you'd put the sander on the wooden table next to the pot, and held it down with too much weight to do any sanding, it would have transmitted good vibes. It might have made the pot fall over too but hey.
+Barry Manilowa I have been given a somewhat different set of rules: - Clean the tools if I get them dirty - Don't leave them in the garage, bring them back inside so she can find them - DON'T LOSE (OR BREAK) THEM - If I use them all the time and she does too, buy a second set There are down sides when they learn how useful tools are.
Get some real dry sand and bury the plastic form in the sand make a small mound of sand around the buried part make a crater in the mound until you see the part expose some of it then pour on the hot metal
investment will lose 100F every minute out of the kiln you want to be about 800-1000f below the metal you are casting. also spraying the wax/PLA with denatured alcohol and pouring while wet still will eliminate any bubbles at all
Ok. I'll give it a go and share the results. I'm curious. I bought a 500x CR10 and am making retro parts for British Racing motorbikes. This will test what I can do with lost PLA. I use Simplify 3D and on high res it takes forever but it's hard to distinguish if it's a print.
What is your idea? Print a hollow part then cover with investment and also fill the inside with investment.? Burn out the PLA and pour? The core will need some support.
You might want to look at ruclips.net/video/tA1znkGbnSQ/видео.html and if you are going to use your printer you would benefit from being able to modify or make your own models.
Came out easily because he used activia
Isidoro Maich Hahahahahaha
Isidoro Maich just like my grandmother.
😃😃😃
pro tip: you can watch series at Flixzone. I've been using it for watching lots of of movies these days.
@Ethan Mario Yea, been watching on Flixzone for since november myself :)
Out of all the videos I've seen on youtube with people trying lost PLA casting, this was the best one, the casting came out perfect, and i think it's cause you know what you are doing!
it was my first time with this, I just used recognised lost wax methods and used the correct materials.
I loved that we could hear the 3d printer's stepper motors running while you were making the investment casting :) New technology complements old!
I made plaster molds for some time at the fine arts school (25 years ago). The plaster to stay with a good consistency and without air bubbles is done in reverse. In a container of water, the plaster is sprinkled without stirring and allowing it to sink into the water until it reaches the top. For the most liquid plaster a water film of 1mm is left. Then it is mixed gently.
The best results are obtained by first immersing the piece in a very liquid plaster. When you have a small layer, 1 or 2 mm, to cover the whole piece then you can fill the rest. Hope it helps and thanks for the videos.
With this method it is not necessary a vacuum chamber
I like the sander as a vibration table!
Another trick is to submerge the master in water with a tiny amount of detergent as a flow aid, then remove all the bubbles first with a brush. It fills all the fine details with water which is then replaced by plaster.
Seeing passionate inventive people working its amazing and inspiring
excellent video, I was skeptical about using lost pla but your robot came out just dandy.
Activia helps in the "fluidity" of the plaster
Other yogurts are available.
Who could give this a thumbs down???
It's almost like there are @ 25 people on RUclips who give everyone a thumbs down. No matter what...there's those 26 thumbs down on great videos. I have even wondered if maybe someone has programmed a few BOTS to just give thumbs down to everything.
I am convinced that downvoting bots are a thing.
I think it's drunk people who missed the like button.
Your mother could
nice work been wanting to do lost wax casting myself that turned out very well
Wouldn't that vase look a lot nicer cast in aluminum? ;)
I was wondering if it was possible to die when summer hits in going to give another crack at it
Using the Sanders vibrations to get out bubbles was a great idea
Thought you were going to cast the vase.
How long did the PLA burnout take and was the model printed without an internal support structure? Thank you.
I printed the model hollow. I burnout for 2 hours, it may not have needed this long but I wanted to be sure all the PLA was gone.
Thank you.
myfordboy several people are experimenting with lost shell.pla. very thin wall print, low or zero infill, then pouring without burning out the plastic
It may "work" to not burn it out, but it certainly won't produce the best quality. You would constantly be fighting escaping gasses.
I always use compressed air and blow out the burnout. You skip that step by the look of it. Either way, your robot turned out pretty good.
so are you going to attempt a lost wax case on the vase (a 2nd print..)
Now that's a new departure from steam engines! The vase, by the way, is cool. Keep up the good work and the videos. I have an idea that Mrs. Myfordboy is going to have a lot of "honey do" projects for that new 3D printer.
Have you had a chance to look into wax filament and waxy PLA? I was unable to copy paste in this response window but if you search it you will find several.
They are a little fiddley to zero to your printer but the print can be easily repaired or modified.
The wax filament can be directly displace poured if done with the correct sprue manifold. Maybe you could try that before you end up having to resort to making a furnace oven for larger parts...By The Way GREAT VIDEO. Keep up the good work!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 500C a little low for aluminium? 9:27
Never mind, missed the zinc statement about a minute earlier.
Nice work. You can spray debubbleizer on the model to help prevent surface bubbles. Jet-dry dishwasher anti-spotting agent can be used as debubbleizer.
For the north American crowd Kerr made a good investment called Satin Cast.
Hello, I have been registered on your channel for a long time and I really like your work, I'm leaving a comment because I thought it was cool to use a product that bears the name of my family "plaster", heheheheh. This 3D machine is fantastic, pity that here in Brazil is very expensive due to the difference in value of the American currency with ours. A hug.
crayons would work well for the riser or any rod like structure
Good tip, thanks.
I've never seen it done that way, melting out the wax and plastic first. Others just poor the metal into the PLA and it smokes away. However, that seems like the gassing would be a problem. This way, there is nothing to vent. Very cool!
The problem with pouring the metal into a wax/PLA mold is that it release gas while melting, that ruins the casting. Lost wax casting have being done like that for millennia for a reason, no reason to change now.
I was thinking if it is possible to feed wax rods to the extruder. the wax could be mixed with some hardening additive. at the university lab we have a printer with high resolution that prints directly in wax. the models are great for centrifugal casting. The vases look beautiful:)
Иван Иванов
have you used vacuum casting and if so is it better or the same as centrifugal casting?
Yes, there are some Wax like Filaments like "MoldLay" or "Print2Cast"
Markus_B
Thanks kindly for the information.
I'll be sure to look those up when I get the chance.
Like the sander vibrator idea!
Did you ever try using green sand as a reusable mould material, You could then use the sander in a similar way to settle the sand particles into every crevice of the model and just scoop the cooled model out....... cut off the pour spout and tidy it up.
For larger models a 0%infill and thin 1 or 2 layer wall will mean less PLA to melt out.
Also clear PLA has no additives and seems to burn out easier for larger objects.
You can also just melt it out at much lower temps 300C upside down over mesh on supported bricks. (Can't reuse it though)
It's awesome , may I ask Where did you get this oven? And how much around?
I was given the oven it's a German EFCO one.
did the vase hold water?
Yes it did.
Just keep an eye on it, I believe PLA breaks down over time when exposed to water from everything I read. I haven't tested it personally though, I print in ABS.
that's a nice electrical furnace, where can I buy one
Next video, make that vase in brass!
Nice way to vibrate the plaster to remove air bubbles and fill crevices. 4:40 5:49
.... okay my iPad vibrates when you use the sander to remove the bubbles :-)
so does Mrs M have an equity card ?
Time to cast that vase in aluminum?
How important is the pouring temperature?
For instance if it is too hot when poured what are the problems? Blow back?
It's not good to have the metal too hot but it won't give blowback. You will get this if the sand is too wet.
I was not expecting the sander, that was pure genius!
hi. How much time is required for writing programmaticaly?
There are thousands of model files on thingiverse. If you want to make your own design you need a 3D drawing package. How long to teach yourself depends on your ability. Lots of instruction videos on RUclips.
Onshape is a good 3D drawing package. It is free, and is cloud based, so you can use it anywhere there is WiFi, and on your phone or tablet. It will also convert your 3D rendering into a drawing, and convert complex shapes into flat projections for tinplate work.
I wonder how long it will take to write a program on the wheel for the model of the engine? I think the model is a hand tool made of wood, or foam will at the same time. Who knows? Write.
Was the wax from a toilet flange seal? Is there any real difference between Industrial A Block Investment Plaster and Plaster of Paris?
The wax is the proper stuff for lost wax casting. Not seen it a a toilet seal, in the UK the seals are done with fittings containing rubber fins. The industrial product is designed to withstand heat, plaster of paris is not.
I haven't used the lost wax casting stuff since high school, but I don't remember it having any powdery residue in it when it melted, maybe it was just the lighting, but your spoon looked like it had a residue under the liquid wax, our toilet seals are basically bee's was with a wee bit of chalk dust in it, at least that is how they melt. Reusable rubber seals are just starting to catch on here. ( finally! )
Hello, Do you see any difference in detail of the cast/ease of use/ investment compare to the traditional greensand casting ? Which method do you prefer ?
Greensand is quicker and easier as there is no investment to mix and burn out. Finish is maybe better with this method no draft is needed and it can be used when the pattern cannot be withdrawn from sand.
This was great. I loved it.
Can I add a suggestion to use a hollow offset print and core the inside so your statue is hollow?
That would be a great video and you are just the guy to master it...
This was interesting, have you looked into any of the wax based filaments that are designed for lost casting?
No not yet. The PLA seemed to work well.
are you putting it in sand because it might explode?
No, just to hold it for pouring.
I'd like to see that vase cast in metal
Very nice video! Can you tell me what slicer you are using and what setting? I have a cr 10 and cant get the prints to look decent
I am using Cura 2.6.1 I am recently been trying 3.1.0
I can send a screen print of the settings if i have an email to send it to.
Go to my home page and click ABOUT. On that page there is the option to send a message.
Or my email address can be found at myfordboy.blogspot.com
Excellent work - Thumbs up number 1,135 was me ;-)
Not just any mints, M&S mints!
Did you buy your furnace or make it M
It's an Emko enamelling oven.
cool vase 😁👍
Did you used to work in an aluminium rolling mill?
No I didn't.
was that 630. c or f?
Celcius
I wasn't sure if you could use PLA for investment models and get a clean burnout. You might try an extremely small tip and run some jewelry trees. That would probably score more brownie points with Mrs. M than the vase. =)
Hi Dave
Great job. How bad was the Smoke/smell during the burnout of the PLA pattern?
Take care.
Willy
There was some smoke and flames. Not sure if it was the wax or PLA. I am thinking the wax ignited and will try all PLA next time.
I have wondered how 3D Printed (PLA) parts could be used for pattern work. Looks like it will for both sand and lost wax casting.
Great work.
As long as you can work with the original drawing or design your own pattern, you can add the sprue, vents and pouring cup all at the same time and in the original material. This gets you away from having to attach separate gating to your pattern.
Great stuff! The sander use is genius :D
Could you print the robot and the PLA gate hollow, so the metal has to melt less plastic, so stays hotter for longer and also less impurities from the molten/burnt PLA?
YensR The robot was hollow and next time I will be using PLA gating instead of wax.
Sorry, i had commented too soon! I now realise you melt out the PLA, I had originally assumed you would pour the molten metal onto the PLA and the metal would burn off the plastic. Now I understand - and of course if I can think of it, you've thought of it twice! :)
@@YensR that is lost shell PLA casting which is a shortcut but you get noxious gas and from what I've seen, the surface finish is not as good as other methods with plaster and burn out the PLA or wax
@@pauls5745 That makes sense, thank you Paul!
I know that for a one off, this is a good method. But would it be worthwhile to make a silicon mold out of the PLA part and use it to make lost wax castings? I mean the time spent to make the 3d model would make a number of wax castings. Or even better, skip the silicon and make a mold from the PLA for the wax. I feel like a troll because I don't even have a foundry, but the dumb question is the one not asked. If anyone is offended, I apologize. Thanks for the fine video.
It's no trouble to make many prints once the CAD model is made. Many can be printed at the same time if they would fit the printer bed. Just start it off and walk away. You would have trouble getting a way casting from a solid 3D printed mould.
@@myfordboy There is some miscommunication that must be my fault. I was thinking of creating a two part molds with the negative image in them to make the lost wax castings. You could print as many of those as would fit on your print bed just like copies of CAD file. You could pour wax in them and create many copies. Two part molds will allow of production of many copies without using up more expensive PLA. I also surfed for silicon molds from PLA and found silicon casting of metal and found video about casting pewter in silicone, but it did not seem to allow for copies to be made. Kind of a single use thing. Now the question is there an easy way to take an OBJ or STL file to create the molds. The closest I have come across on Thingiverse is cookie cutters, but as I type this, I realize I have not looked up candle molds which would be similar to what I am discussing. I like your idea and now it is taking me down the rabbit hole looking for how to go beyond it. Many thanks.
The 2 part PLA mould will only work if the model shape is suitable and has draft and no undercuts sothe wax can be removed. A silicone mould is flexible and can be pealed off. PLA patterns need some finishing to get rid of the layer lines BUT I have a new resin printer that gives an absolutely smooth finish. Look out for the video at the weekend.
@@myfordboy Sounds really good. I looked 3d candle molds on RUclips and I am now buried in learning how the negative image is created. Looking forward to seeing more of your videos. Many many thanks for your hard work.
You can create a negative mould by importing the STL file into CAD, covert the file to STEP and enclose it in a 2 part block and subtract the model from the block.
When I've tried casting aluminum into a plaster mold it fractures the plaster. I've heated in an oven to drive out moisture, but the wife gets mad and I STILL fracture the mold! Does the green sand bed help to avoid that, or did you use a certain technique? Love your videos!
Justin Tobin He is using investment plaster which likely has a silica sand base. I add silica sand to the plaster for my castings and the mold crack much less.
I am using a proper investment powder that is designed to withstand the high temperature. Regular plaster is for walls.
If you'd put the sander on the wooden table next to the pot, and held it down with too much weight to do any sanding, it would have transmitted good vibes. It might have made the pot fall over too but hey.
THANK YOU...for sharing.
What are the electro-mechanial noises i can hear in the background?
My 3D printer.
Bet you made some real bonus points with the wife when she saw that vase!
My 3D Printer is one of the few (only?) gadgets that my wife approves of.
Everything else is junk it seems.
+Barry Manilowa I have been given a somewhat different set of rules:
- Clean the tools if I get them dirty
- Don't leave them in the garage, bring them back inside so she can find them
- DON'T LOSE (OR BREAK) THEM
- If I use them all the time and she does too, buy a second set
There are down sides when they learn how useful tools are.
Very helpful video
Plaster is not good for this since it will always contain lots of water evaporating heavily when melted metal arrives. Thanks for this one.
8), i hope you are paying Mrs M comssion for the walk on part.
awesome!
Melting a dark resinous substance in foil... ah to be a student again...
i have a 2liter bottle ,just encase you were wondering ;)
Now cast the vase in aluminium!
Get some real dry sand and bury the plastic form in the sand make a small mound of sand around the buried part make a crater in the mound until you see the part expose some of it then pour on the hot metal
I think you missed the point of the exercise.
next project, a vacuum chamber?
If I were to do this a lot i would consider that.
investment will lose 100F every minute out of the kiln you want to be about 800-1000f below the metal you are casting. also spraying the wax/PLA with denatured alcohol and pouring while wet still will eliminate any bubbles at all
think you would have better luck letting the plaster harden in a vacuum chamber?
Tumbs up
i like it
This takes me back to my teen years marking pipes to smoke weed out of aluminum foil
Got to keep the Mrs happry, right :) cheers.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you supposed to be adding the plaster to the water?
It seems there are two thoughts on which should be added first. The manufacture of the product does not specify.
What do you think of the hollow core and mold idea?
Interesting challenge but I really make engineering models rather than art ones.
Ok. I'll give it a go and share the results. I'm curious.
I bought a 500x CR10 and am making retro parts for British Racing motorbikes. This will test what I can do with lost PLA. I use Simplify 3D and on high res it takes forever but it's hard to distinguish if it's a print.
What is your idea?
Print a hollow part then cover with investment and also fill the inside with investment.? Burn out the PLA and pour? The core will need some support.
Great. Happy wife happy life.
investigacion social
I recommend just setting the sander on the table while it is running. The vibrations will be transferred through the table.
You might want to look at ruclips.net/video/tA1znkGbnSQ/видео.html and if you are going to use your printer you would benefit from being able to modify or make your own models.
l won't be trying that dangerous method. I am able to make my own models checkout tmy previous video.
It's really no more dangerous than the Lost Foam method. IN this case the plastic is burning off instead of Styrofoam - both are fuels.
seriously, the carbon footprint of half an hour in a 747 ..for .. what..
Aren't u better off making yourself a decent work bench first!
what the hell is 500c I'm used to f not c is not very accurate f is
How about you use your vice next time. Shouldn’t have to ‘read’ a video.