I largely agree with your thoughts. It's rare to find someone liking Eleum Loyce, it's generally the DLC people like the least but it's also my favorite one by far. There's still loads in there that are typical DS2 things that annoy me like points-of-no-returns, rooms that are completely featureless and areas that will make you fight for every centimeters of ground which just becomes tedious but out of all of DS2, it's also the one place that feels most open, most grand, it has that big frozen kingdom in the background that looks cool and more credible than most places in DS2. It feels like it gives you more room to breathe than the others, to take in the atmosphere instead of being attacked all the time. But yeah, in terms of SOTFS VS vanilla, I'd need to replay the base version to know for sure but I remember being disappointed in SOTFS because it wasn't just better, it was also worse at times. They didn't really release a superior version, instead they just released another flawed version of the game.
You had a good hunch about the PvP in this game. I played a lot of PvP in every Dark Souls/Elden Ring and DS2 has by far the most balanced, most varied and most fun one: - a lot of weapons/build options, where pretty much ALL were viable thanks to damage boosting rings - even Daggers were viable thanks to that, - best fashion souls - always more fun to win or lose in fashion, rather than to be the bog-standard knight nr 35, - very lenient on levels (meta was around SL150-250 thanks to soul memory, whereas in other games it was usually around 120-150 tops, limiting build variety), - stamina management was important (unlike DS3 and ER for most builds), - no free rolls (again unlike DS3 and ER), - shields could be punished pretty well (unlike DS1), - poise was fairly balanced (unlike DS1), - no free backstabs (unlike DS1), - almost all attacks were useful and viable (unlike R1 spam of DS3 or Ash of War spam in ER), - not many really OP strats (mostly Katanas and Dark magic were really strong due to their huge damage, whereas in ER there are SOO many broken/annoying things to deal with), - you can invade/duel in areas even AFTER killing a boss there (HUGE issue for every other game), - you could invade solo hosts (In DS3 it was very unlikely, in ER - impossible to invade a solo host unless he uses Taunter's Tongue). EDIT: most balanced and host*
I've always heard the pvp was good in DS2 but the stunlocking is not fun for me but I would still say thats better than the combo of lag and backstab spam of DS1. Most of the few pvp encounters I had before I blocked it out in DS2 were pretty respectful, they waited until I killed the enemy I was fighting and let me heal to full, that was cool but I couldn't get over the clunk.
@@CinderSnake There is no stunlocking in DS2 - most weapons can only stun the enemy player for 2 attacks tops. In DS1 however heavy weapons like Ultra Greatswords had infinite stunlock. You had to learn how to glitch your way out of it with item swapping not to die - that's how awfully balanced DS1 is for PvP. For duelling DS2 was easily the best game, at least for me (and many others). Even invasions were usually ending up as duels since invaders have Estus blocked while host rarely has a time to heal when invader is on his cheeks. If you ever feel like experiencing some of the online Souls - definitely recommend that game. Like I mentioned above - basically any build can work there with some practice. For reference basic Longsword is considered one of the best weapons for PvP, that's how balanced it is. At the very least - do NOT play it in Dark Souls 1. The amount of tech you need to learn first on how to counter backstabs and stunlocks is already a steep price to pay for the entry (unless you like to die a lot).
@@Jedrex899 stun"locking" might be a heavy term for it, maybe frequently stunned would be a better way of putting it, early on it happens so much that it feels really bad, it gets better later with levelling at least in PVE so it probably also gets better in the PVP but I never really focused on PVP in these games, only occasionally engaging in it in the pvp arenas. Thats why I was so brief on it.
One of the most fair reviews I've seen on DS2. I've played through the game three times. Twice through Scholar and once on Vanilla. The original version is far and away the better experience.
Thanks! That's great to hear, fair is what I was going for. I do like some changes scholar made, mostly that they replaced a bunch of melee guys and archers in one big hall with a single executioners chariot, it's a more fair challenge and I think I heard or read somewhere that they made torches and lighting matter a bit more in some areas but if you don't like that system then that's not a positive change. The pros of scholar come with some cons. Anyway there's a reason they never did something like scholar ever again or maybe they never felt the need to scholarize their games again. I think DS2 was a real teaching experience for Fromsoft.
My main reason for getting scholar after already owning the dark souls 2 base game: it was cheaper on steam than the individual dlcs combined for the original DS2. In conclusion: great but weird game. Some of the best und worst content of any dlcs I know of.
I largely agree with your thoughts. It's rare to find someone liking Eleum Loyce, it's generally the DLC people like the least but it's also my favorite one by far. There's still loads in there that are typical DS2 things that annoy me like points-of-no-returns, rooms that are completely featureless and areas that will make you fight for every centimeters of ground which just becomes tedious but out of all of DS2, it's also the one place that feels most open, most grand, it has that big frozen kingdom in the background that looks cool and more credible than most places in DS2. It feels like it gives you more room to breathe than the others, to take in the atmosphere instead of being attacked all the time.
But yeah, in terms of SOTFS VS vanilla, I'd need to replay the base version to know for sure but I remember being disappointed in SOTFS because it wasn't just better, it was also worse at times. They didn't really release a superior version, instead they just released another flawed version of the game.
Very well put, especially about scholar vs vanilla.
Atmosphere is 90% of why I like Eleum Loyce, it's very good there.
You had a good hunch about the PvP in this game. I played a lot of PvP in every Dark Souls/Elden Ring and DS2 has by far the most balanced, most varied and most fun one:
- a lot of weapons/build options, where pretty much ALL were viable thanks to damage boosting rings - even Daggers were viable thanks to that,
- best fashion souls - always more fun to win or lose in fashion, rather than to be the bog-standard knight nr 35,
- very lenient on levels (meta was around SL150-250 thanks to soul memory, whereas in other games it was usually around 120-150 tops, limiting build variety),
- stamina management was important (unlike DS3 and ER for most builds),
- no free rolls (again unlike DS3 and ER),
- shields could be punished pretty well (unlike DS1),
- poise was fairly balanced (unlike DS1),
- no free backstabs (unlike DS1),
- almost all attacks were useful and viable (unlike R1 spam of DS3 or Ash of War spam in ER),
- not many really OP strats (mostly Katanas and Dark magic were really strong due to their huge damage, whereas in ER there are SOO many broken/annoying things to deal with),
- you can invade/duel in areas even AFTER killing a boss there (HUGE issue for every other game),
- you could invade solo hosts (In DS3 it was very unlikely, in ER - impossible to invade a solo host unless he uses Taunter's Tongue).
EDIT: most balanced and host*
I've always heard the pvp was good in DS2 but the stunlocking is not fun for me but I would still say thats better than the combo of lag and backstab spam of DS1. Most of the few pvp encounters I had before I blocked it out in DS2 were pretty respectful, they waited until I killed the enemy I was fighting and let me heal to full, that was cool but I couldn't get over the clunk.
@@CinderSnake There is no stunlocking in DS2 - most weapons can only stun the enemy player for 2 attacks tops. In DS1 however heavy weapons like Ultra Greatswords had infinite stunlock. You had to learn how to glitch your way out of it with item swapping not to die - that's how awfully balanced DS1 is for PvP.
For duelling DS2 was easily the best game, at least for me (and many others). Even invasions were usually ending up as duels since invaders have Estus blocked while host rarely has a time to heal when invader is on his cheeks. If you ever feel like experiencing some of the online Souls - definitely recommend that game. Like I mentioned above - basically any build can work there with some practice. For reference basic Longsword is considered one of the best weapons for PvP, that's how balanced it is.
At the very least - do NOT play it in Dark Souls 1. The amount of tech you need to learn first on how to counter backstabs and stunlocks is already a steep price to pay for the entry (unless you like to die a lot).
@@Jedrex899 stun"locking" might be a heavy term for it, maybe frequently stunned would be a better way of putting it, early on it happens so much that it feels really bad, it gets better later with levelling at least in PVE so it probably also gets better in the PVP but I never really focused on PVP in these games, only occasionally engaging in it in the pvp arenas. Thats why I was so brief on it.
One of the most fair reviews I've seen on DS2.
I've played through the game three times. Twice through Scholar and once on Vanilla. The original version is far and away the better experience.
Thanks! That's great to hear, fair is what I was going for.
I do like some changes scholar made, mostly that they replaced a bunch of melee guys and archers in one big hall with a single executioners chariot, it's a more fair challenge and I think I heard or read somewhere that they made torches and lighting matter a bit more in some areas but if you don't like that system then that's not a positive change. The pros of scholar come with some cons.
Anyway there's a reason they never did something like scholar ever again or maybe they never felt the need to scholarize their games again. I think DS2 was a real teaching experience for Fromsoft.
I thought the original and Scholar were pretty much the same overall...
My main reason for getting scholar after already owning the dark souls 2 base game: it was cheaper on steam than the individual dlcs combined for the original DS2.
In conclusion: great but weird game. Some of the best und worst content of any dlcs I know of.
Yeah I´m really disappointed with the pricing on the original dark souls 2, it should be lowered by at least 20 dollars.
This video sucks ngl