Your whole rant about Swift Quiver missed 2 very important things: 1: That build starts with 1 level of fighter for the fighting style 2: You can go V. Human to get Sharpshooter Also, the build is better as a swords bard, but that isnt as big of a change
I didn't miss anything. Straight 10 levels of Bard (no fighter dip until AFTER) is being recommended on big channels in 2018. They took Variant Human all right - Resilient Con. ruclips.net/video/B881kY215CM/видео.html I agree the build would be better with a fighter dip beforehand and with Swords Bard. Level 5 and 6 would hurt though. (I've pinned the comment I'm replying to here so it is more clear the build that I am referring to in the video.)
@@TreantmonksTemple wow, that's a terrible idea. I hadnt seen anyone reccomend that until now, previous it was always start fighter (giving you con save proficiency anyway), then go full bard, maybe get action surge after 11. That seems like making the character intentionally worse to avoid early multiclass delays. Having personally played the build from 2 to 11, level 6 isnt bad, you just focus on being a caster for that level with your weapon as a backup. Level 5 sucked, basically had heat metal and 1 arrow a turn and that's it
That is true, though it actually makes no difference in gameplay. On Round 1 you can still only fire 2 arrows (except with your action rather than with your bonus action)
You can give animated objects a "general command" like "bludgeon that guy to death" and they will follow it until the order is complete. Therefore you don't need to use a bonus action 'every' round to command them. Apart from concentration, used well they are fire & forget until a target dies. Also, carry 10 silver coins silver will bypass some resistances, and say 10 nails or daggers (possibly coated in poison) to transform them into piercing+poison dmg... generally if they're resistant to bludgeoning they're resistant to piercing, but with poison and not giving up a bonus action every round, it may well be worth it even on resistant monsters. Also, you can split them by having all 10 bludgeon a creature to death, then next round using a bonus action re-directing 5 of them to bludgeon a different monster while the other 5 finish off target 1... oh, also you had selected bludgeoning resistance to magical and non magical, not sure which it IS, but it's not both, so that drops the page count of resistant monsters as well.
Really enjoying your videos, as I did your guides. They also have been getting better/feel more natural. Small thing: Wall of Force is even better, you cant dispel it with Dispel Magic. Keep those great videos coming please!
I recently fought a very powerful single enemy that was very good at getting away when out of his depth and whilst my paladin managed to get him with a hold person I used Animate Objects to crit him 10 times with ball bearings which ended up doing 20d4 + 40 piercing damage (came out as 91).
I once playing a campaign where Awakened animals, particularly CR 1 and lower dinosaurs (and similar creatures) were an available race (Long story short, the region was being attacked by two warring factions, and a local Druid tapped an available resource, the creatures of the land, to protect their home). I ended up playing as a Deinonychus Monk.
One note on Animate Objects... While I agree it's a great spell overall, and even outside of combat, it has some uses, sicne you can animate boulders or doors to simply move themselves out of your way... But it only has a +8 to hit. So yeah, enemies taking half of 65 is still better than a lot of ither damage dealing spells, but what if 7 of those attacks miss? Now you're doing nothing. It's really good when you first get it, and for a few levels after, but it's usefulness drops off as enemies get higher an higher AC, and you can't buff the attack bonus of dye objects you animated.
That's a fair point. Animate Objects does scale down slightly in effectiveness as you level up because the objects' attack bonus doesn't improve as player characters' proficiency bonus increases. So against level appropriate enemies, on average, you can expect the hit chance to drop to 55% then 50%. So at the highest levels of play, the average damage of Animate Objects drops from 65 to 54 points per turn, or half against creatures with resistance, which is *still* impressive for a 5th level single target damage spell. It's maybe just not as impressive as it was when you first got the spell. But equally, a 5th level slot is a much less valuable resource to a level 18 or 20 character than a level 10 one.
Animate object have to be non magical, but otherwise you could use silverware or other items like cold iron that might situationaly affect a certain creature. Larger creatures might, if the dm allowed, grapple. Or maybe they attack the bridge or cause an avalanche. You could also cover the objects in poison.
Have a paladin in your party who casts Crusaders Mantle. “While in the aura, each nonhostile creature in the aura (including you) deals an extra 1d4 radiant damage...”
It kinda depends. Is 1000 gp the cost of 2 uncommon magic items? Then it's a lot of gold. Is it instead the cost of enough ball bearings to fill a demiplane? Then it's not so much. Just depends on what the opportunity cost is.
Contagion because the creature must make three out of six saving throws to defeat the effects. Therefore even if it makes three saving throws in a row it is still under the effect of this devastating spell for at least three rounds. Also it's effects are so nasty that any creature will use a legendary save if it fails which could cause the creature to potentially use all three legendary saves.
Hello Treantmonk. First time I leave a comment here. First of, I do have to thank you a lot for your guides and your general advice you give to players. As a new player I didn't understand enough about spell casting and how to approach it. So me and some other people at my table were getting torched because of bad spell selection and usage in our games. So I can't thank you enough for helping me having fun with spellcasters. My god wizard following most of your spellselection and guidance was soooooo much fun to play. That said I do have to say that your criticism about swift quiver and the forementioned "Ultimate Arcane Archer" guide was unwarranted and uncharacteristically harsh in my opinion. Btw he played the build himself in an online stream. I'm currently playing this valor bard build (more or less) in a game and it's totally fun. I mean I'm more or less a bard that can still shoot arrows and deal mediocre damage, something I never achieved with the normal bard build. I know you're not big about dealing damage as a caster (because so many others can do it better), but last time I played a more conventional bard i felt left out. Sure Swift Quiver is not optimal, but it's fun to use. As for animate objects, I liked the spell, but my party hated it. So I used it very rarely. I'm not here to criticize your opinion. Just wanted to tell you, I think you're rant was a little bit over the top. There are entire builds out there around shadow blade, that sound fun, but are suboptimal and you didn't rant about them. So yeah, i was just feeling stupid playing a character that you think of as being a waste of space, but I have so much fun playing, so I decided to leave this comment. Keep up the good work and if you read it this far down, I'd feel very honoured.
I did read that far down kerschraphael. Thank you and I'm glad you enjoy my guides. You pretty much answer your own criticism here. "a bard that can still shoot arrows and deal mediocre damage". Calling that build an "ultimate archer" would be a severe overstatement, and misleading to new players who see the title and watch the video, wouldn't you agree? Now, if the video was titled, "a hybrid archer/bard build that is fun to play" that at least wouldn't create unwarranted expectations, and someone looking for advice on making an "ultimate archer" would know to keep looking. As for your build, I'm glad you are having fun. I see no problem with a Bard shooting arrows, I have a college of swords bard that shoots arrows myself, it's a ton of fun. However, I recommend raising Cha over Dex, and use arrows as a replacement for cantrips. I don't know if you've reached level 10 yet or not, I still think there are better uses for your concentration at that level than swift quiver, but it sounds like you are already aware of the limits of the build, so at least you are making that decision without false expectations.
Well thank you very much. Yeah the title ultimate archer is just sily, just clickbait if you ask me. And everyone that has some experience with dnd5e should know that it's not as good (damagewise) as a simple fighterarcher or even a roguearcher. But I agree it's deceiving for new players. It was just the first time that I thought you were too harsh. Yes I'm still not sure if I take swift quiver, but I'm not in a rush to decide. Currently I'm playing with a dex of 18 and cha of 18 on lvl 6. First asi was dex (we did roll for stats because our dm wanted us to). Also I only took utility cantrips so far and mostly out of combat spells. I just wanted to point out that one of the reasons I still think I want to take swift quiver is attacking twice on a bonus action and using my action for spellcasting. I do realize there are not that many bard spells that don't use my concentration, but maybe then I can truly be a bard that can cast and fling arrows every round. Thanks again for all of your work and I'm looking forward to play one of your underrated builds in the future ;-) I'm already working on my personal nature cleric
@@kerschraphael Did you say Nature Cleric? Check this out if you haven't already: docs.google.com/document/d/1K2kKOFIFin_zSzgXDCx0_UGcGqtJRSsCWVW5mOc3Mxk/edit#
I wonder... as a Dwarven Forge Domain Cleric of Gond (with tinkering prof) would I use be able to use animate objects on silver statues I made to get around the non magical resistance?
@@TreantmonksTemple my thought was silver statues would count as "silvered bludgeoning damage". *Some Monsters that have immunity or Resistance to nonmagical Weapons are susceptible to silver Weapons* depends ofc on the DM if this is allowed (edit) nvm forgot it didnt apply to all monsters
I think I spotted a flaw in the Animate Objects spell. I think the spell was written before the final combat rules were decided, specifically, before the DEX to damage rules were codified. I think the original chart looked like this: Tiny +4 1d4 damage (4str,18dex) Small +4 1d8 damage. (6str,14dex) Med +4 2d6 damage. (10str,12dex) Large +6 2d10+2 damage (14str,10dex) Huge +8 2d12+4 damage (18str,6dex) ..with HP and AC the same as now. so the potential damage looks like this: Tiny 8d4~20 Small 8d8~36 Med 8d6~28 Large 4d10+4~26 w/ +2 more to hit Huge 2d12+4~17 w/ +4 more to hit (+1 more med or +2 more small objects each) This is pretty good , the 8+ tiny objects are a bit weak.. then again it's a lot easier to carry around 8 or 10 tiny objects. It's a fair comp. Then.. as my theory goes, Mearls and Co. after much argument finally decide to add DEX to damage for small weapons (despite Kobolds and Goblins getting Ubermench). Right before pressing some editor is going over the PHB spells and notices Animate Objects. "Hey look" he says, "they forgot to add DEX, this is the wrong damage". So he "corrects" the damage: Tiny 8d4 +32! ~52 w/ +8 to hit! Small 8d8 +16 ~52 w/ +6 to hit Med 8d6 +4 ~32 +5 to hit Large 4d10+4 ~26 +6 to hit (same) Huge 2d12+4 ~17 +8 to hit (same) (not exactly fair comp anymore..) ..and it goes to press that way, without consulting the writer, and it gets through errata because it's not actually a mistake. We get this IMHO stupidly overpowered spell. I'll bet that's exactly how it happened
Except around that level, you'll start running into creatures with non-magic resistance and the objects aren't magic so assuming max damage, at best they'll do 40. I'd say they're best for distracting mobs to save your allies from being targeted and getting off AoOs. Even then upcasting Fireball is arguably better for trashing mobs
Hold Spells are good for Loremasters, since they can make the save STR or DEX based, which means if they fail (and with your choice of the two, that's hopefully common) they auto-fail subsequent saves.
If you make the ten objects you animate out of silver, you then also bypass the nonsilvered damage resistance too. Had a player that walked around with a sack of silver shurikens for this exact reason, he'd animate ten of them and they'd bypass nonsilvered damage resistance.
Do you have to use your bonus action for the attacks of your animated objects ? Because you only need to give them an order and they obey. You can order them to kill a target, and they won't stop attacking until the target is dead, so you only have to use your bonus action once. That's usually how I play in my games Is my interpretation right ?
If they are continually attacking the same creature I believe your interpretation is correct. Expect to need to switch targets regularly, as the creatures you target tend to die.
If you give them a broad order, expect it to be interpreted unwisely-- they are dumb objects. "Kill all creatures on the battlefield save me and Hallie McPallie" will mean dividing their attacks against all enemies equally.
Wall of Force creates a sphere with a radius of 10 feet. Ancient dragons are gargantuan size and could extend wings or the tail to be outside of the sphere. Since the sphere is invisible, can a dragon still take lair actions to cause effects where it can see?
Sometimes in your guides, you worry about touch spells. Do you account for a familiars ability to proxy touch spells in that evaluation? Also many people love the owl as a familiar as a surrogate help action provider, but have you considered the bat and its blind sight as a nice alternative.
I think contagion is an excellent 5th level spell as it requires 3 successes to end the spell. Yes it is a con save but slimy doom(?) gives disadvantage and If the creature takes 1 point of damage it is stunned you could have a creature with legendary resistance stunned for 3 turns plus it may have to burn those legendary resistances. Meaning that you can do some serious damage or control such as polymorph on it with something like portent so it guarantees they fail. This assumes you have a cleric or druid in your party to cast the contagion
Wall of light isn't the worst thing in the world in some scenarios. And of course this depends on the DM, but if I were DMing and the party cast that while fleeing from a group of enemies down either a long narrow hall or thin bridge (which, let's face it, is a staple in fantasy and I have been guilty of using both--sometimes within the same session), I personally would have them move at half-speed if they move at all. Anything that causes blindness is subjective to the DM, after all, since there is the underlying panic of not being able to see, the stumbling about, obviously not moving at full speed, and any environmental hazards or traps are suddenly much more deadly--even if the enemy knew about them to begin with. Of course, the mechanics based DM will barely even shrug at this, sending the horde down passed the wall and tackling the party with disadvantage for that turn and forgetting about it later on, but a creative player with a creative DM will certainly be able to put some work into it. It's somewhat unfair to compare spell damage to fireball, as the developers themselves said that they purposefully made the damage stronger than what a 3rd level spell should be. But yes, mostly the reason people find Flame Strike to be good is that it is on divine lists, and they have less blasty options than their main arcane counterparts. Anti-life Shell....I've had players do some full silly things with that.
Awaken: You said it can be cast on a plant. True, but it can be cast on a beast as well, as long as it has 1, 2 or 3 intelligence score. I'd think most animals would be less frequently disadvantaged than the average awakened tree!? =)
Good point, an awakened Sabre Toothed Tiger would make a crazy-good mount. An awakened T-Rex? Well - it's a T-REX! The thing about a tree is it's a decent pick, and super-easy to find one. It doesn't necessarily have to be huge. It's like your own Treant. Just need to get it trained as a monk and you are golden!
I forgot about you and trees... :) If the druid can afford it, it could awaken several trees, right? It could form its own grove? But I could imagine having quite a few drawbacks. How do your new follower(s) react to your party using wood for fire? etc (^__^)
You people are talking about a grove of treants hobbeling about but are we just gonna gloss over the fact that within a couple of years a 9th druid could recreate an actual version of Jurrasic Park, all following his commands?
@@bacchus8081 He'd need 1000 gp per cast. If we assume a level 10++ land druid who short rests often to regain those 5th level spell slots then he can... well, awaken very many per day. I do not understand your "could recreate an actual version of Jurrasic Park", though. The druid does not create new creatures. But he "enlightens" them. And the bests in JP aren't enlightened. So as you see: I do not get your message =)
One thing you can do to improve Animate Objects is to buy a quiver of +1 arrows and animate 10 of those, that way your animated arrows will count as magic for the purpose of overcoming that resistance.
Unfortunately, it calls out specifically in the spell text that the objects animated be nonmagical. You could use silver(or other materials) objects to overcome that damage resistance however.
Actually my wizard just paid to have silvered, admantine shurikens made with party monk and just carries those around. I always loved Phantasm, so I use those and found a mini of a tall, skinny wizard type.
Well, whispers bards do have psychic blades to add on weapon damage. Swift quiver isn't something I took on mine, but I see the appeal of nova spam. I'm holding out for tenser's transformation + crossbow expert for 3 non-melee hand crossbow shots at advantage per round with 1d8 + 2d12 + mod each hit before you apply the headache magic (5d6 online, 8d6 level after). Hexblade addition for the curse (crits 19 and 20, add proficiency to damage) and charisma-based hand crossbow. Comes online quite late, but it's fun being close to now. And bards have the luxury of other cool toys while they wait for their zany, overly-specific builds to manifest. I liked the inclusion of antilife shell. :) Haven't had a chance to see it in play, but it does seem like it should be situationally punchy. Maybe it's typically rated lower since- if you're using it to shield/block anything- you need an answer for the long range weaponry and AoE strikes that just locked onto your concentrating self? Using it effectively might paint a pretty target. Still, could be worth it. And there's always something neat about seeing a caster use a bodyguard-type spell to return the favor and shield their friends.
I kept hoping you'd pick contagion for one of your best spells. It has so much tactical use in a fight against a legendary enemy with their resistences. If it hits that is all three of their legendary resistences wasted and they are still effected until they make their third and final save. Using Slimy Doom to give disadvantage on the very save they have to make against this spell is also crazy!
I would just like to add that I have my Familiar carry a small pouch of 10 silver pieces to animate as objects... lol takes care of the un-silvered resistance (obviously up to the DM, but pretty strong argument for it). Also means I always have the objects to animate wherever I am and I can use my 1st action to cast a buff or battlefield control spell while my Familiar uses its action to pour the coins out into position within 30ft of where I need them.
@@dustinsmith2021 Wish, but only because that's the only way to cast Plane Shift without the material components (finding a metal rod attuned to another plane of existence is pretty difficult around here.) Me and nine of my friends are leaving for Elysium.
@@dustinsmith2021 If that's how we're playing, Dream, on the grounds that there are "people known to me" that need to be force-fed a few messages until behavior improves. In D&D, 3d6 psychic damage isn't much of a motivator, but given that people in this world are fragile enough to die from a single dagger crit, most of us don't have that many HP. Wenseslao Moguel was the last guy to hit tier 2 in any class.
Great video as always; lots of excellent insight. What's your take on Destructive Wave? I know blasty spells aren't generally a great use of higher level slots, but it seems to have a lot going for it: no friendly fire, two good types of damage, and a possible secondary effect.
The advantages you mention. The disadvantages are targeting a strong save, the 2ndary effect is prone, which is fairly minor, and 10d6 damage at this level is fine, but not impressive. Overall, I would rate it above average.
Another advantage of Destructive Wave is that Bards get it earlier then it’s intended recipient, Paladins. It also has an energy type that prevents regeneration. It’s much better when used at 9th level as a Bard then at 17th level as a Paladin.
So like, incredibly situational use, but one of my PCs is a protector Aasimar Divine Sorlock, and so they activated their form, flew up in the air and then next turn casted wall of light, and at that level was dealing an additional 11 damage every time they used they're action to manipulate the wall of light, then would quicken their eldritch agonizing repelling blast to knock back 3 targets back into the wall, this was just an absolute metric load of radiant/force damage with a minor debuff that would slap the Grave Titan/Fanged Skeletons (CR 12/2 strong homebrew creatures that was Hard difficulty at minimum) encounter I had planned and honestly caught me off guard with how debilitating it was in that one circumstance, granted still think there's better things out there, also why are most undead not immune to the blind condition, just primarily poisoned, frightened or exhaustion?? Now I know
Isn't it unfair to compare wizard 5th lvl spells, vs paladins/rangers 5th lvl spells? thinking about paladin/ranger ONLY spells. Just throwing it out there, what do you think?
As far as I know, a 5th level spell is supposed to be a certain power level, regardless of the class list it's on. As I do these lists, that seems to hold, as if it wasn't the case, we would expect certain spell lists to dominate the best/worst lists, but that hasn't happened.
I don’t know how the devs balance spells but the interpretation I always see is that due to the fact that they have less slots and aren’t primary casters, they tend to beef up Ranger and paladin spells just a bit especially with paladin
Loving your videos!!! Disagree about Antilife Shell anyway but what can you do, everybody has its own experience. Go on with your list and I'm looking forward to finding out what your next project will be!!
I totally get it. These rankings are completely subjective. Thank you for the compliment! After spells I think we'll talk about some underrated character options, then maybe some build guides, I'm intending to make videos approximately 1/week for the indefinite future.
A lot of people seem to think that charm does more than it actually does. A charmed creature regards you as a friend. That's all. It doesn't automatically obey orders or follow you around like a puppy. So with Awaken, you spend 1000 gold pieces to have a friendly awakened tree. It'll be inclined to help you, but that doesn't mean it'll follow you if you decide to leave the forest(or be there if you go back to said forest), nor will it necessarily fight for you.
More reasons Animates Objects is Awesome: 1 carry around a sack of knives to use for piercing or slashing damage. 2 carry around a sack of silver coins to bypass that resistance OH WAIT 3 add insult to injury and have the enemy archer's own bolts fly back at them 4 add some utility by having the object go in to flank with the fighter and the Rogue giving both advantage, or if you don't play with flanking, just have half of them use the Aid Action. 5 if your DM is real spicy, have your silvered coins be sitting in a vial of acid (as silver is acid resistant) or poison and see if you can squeeze some extra damage in. I call the Acid one Troll's Bane.
Antilife Shell - Did this get an errata or ruling by Sage Advice because, per the PHB, it doesn't push enemies away when cast? "Hedging Out" refers to what the spell does in general not what it does as it's cast and even if it did Hedging Out doesn't mean push. Other spells, where they create an 'in or out' zone or effect, specifically call out how they move creatures (see Wall of Force for example).
I'm curious about one comment you made off hand about immolation, and how it wasn't buffed on its reprint in Xanathar's. Would you happen to know a couple that were buffed/nerfed for that book? I wasn't aware any of the spells changed
Circle of power is even better cause at level 18 it would mean not only would would they get advantage but everyone in the area would get a bonus equal to the paladins charisma
Remember to purchase silvered adamantine cutlery for the animate objects spell while in town! It decreases the list of monsters with resistances by one fifth x)
Good thing you explained how overrated swift quiver is. People always theorycraft those builds with the premise that you can keep it up forever, it works against everything and there is no miss chance. Only someone oblivious to the fact that bard has animate objects would ever think that this is a good idea. Bard is one of the better users of animate objects. Grapple + Animate Objects, Dissonant Whispers + Animate Objects.
I dont think you mentioned this, so I'm going to. Not only do bards get no bonuses to archery, but swift quiver also takes concentration, so that beautiful bard spell list full of concentration spells like hypnotic pattern, suggestion, etc is pretty much off limits while you're off trying to be Legolas. I almost fell for this trap with the first character I made in 5e, but fortunately decided to go with a lore bard instead, and good lord am I glad I did.
Yes, it's actually a very comparable spell mechanically to Animate Objects. Both take an action to cast, both use your concentration, both are activated by using your bonus action. The only difference is that one does lots of damage, the other does not. A pretty important distinction!
To top it all off, animate objects is already on the bard spell list, meaning you don't have to waste one of your precious magical secrets on it AND it comes a character level sooner.
Remember when enervation was good? I miss 3e's (twinned, empowered, maximized, etc) enervation. The 5e spell is just sad. Shame about 5e necromancy in general. There are a few good necromancy spells for a generalist mage, but not really enough to stand as a whole school on its own or to flesh out a reasonable portion of a thematic specialist's spellbook.
Enervation was OP in 3/3.5ed, OP in "WTF they were thinking?" way, together with things like Shivering Touch, or Cloudkill. But they do not deserve to be changed into utter crap
Yes you can since it an invisible wall and telports spells say line of sight. Sage advice even indicates that you could use your familiar targeting through it senses. www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/09/targeting-spellsclear-path-can-i-target-across-wall-of-force/
Do you plan on doing sub-classes aka domains/circles/paths in the future? We know how you feel about Wizard schools, but what interested me in your cleric guide was that you said Nature was one of the best domains for Cleric, where it would seem (to me) other guides or creators would disagree with you. I like your logical approach to rating spells and would be interested in class ratings maybe even tiers.
Swift quiver is a bonus action to cast, not an action. Valor bards spending ASIs on dexterity instead of charisma shouldn't be an issue because they can dip hexblade 1 for hex warrior and hexblade's curse.
Hexblades can't use hex warrior on a bow (unless they have Improved Pact Weapon - which requires 3 levels of Warlock). Good call on Bonus action - though technically it would make no difference (2 arrows on round 1 either way)
Wizards seem to think that any spell which does damage each round is already too powerful and so make sure it's weak in every other way. Who knows how spiritual weapon got through without costing an action or concentration.
I love the idea of awaken. But the creature doesn’t become your minion, or even your ally. All it is is charmed. Meaning it won’t harm you, and you have advantage on Charisma checks. Not that useful, unless you’re really good at talking intelligent trees into being your minions. It actually really bugs me, that 5e Druids have no tools to get longer-term minions other than planar binding. Not even a familiar :(
Judd W Rose correct. You have to role play it into your friend. Once you have the spell there is no reason why your stronghold shouldn’t have many awakened around. If you feed the tree it can tell you about who stopped by.
Any suggestions as to how immolation could be fixed? (How much would you increase the damage for instance) Asking because I have an NPC sorcerer where the spell fits really well thematically (and I can se it being slightly less terrible if you're fighting a few strong enemies and twin it).
Keep in mind that this is just off the top of my head, and I haven't playtested this, but I would have the effect continue regardless of saving throw. So save on round 1=1/2 damage that round, save on subsequent rounds=no damage that round, but the effect continues for the duration or until concentration ends.
@@TreantmonksTemple Ooh, that's fun. That would be a pretty unique effect as far as I'm aware? Not too different from keeping someone inn an aura like spirit guardians, or following them around with a flaming sphere, except that they can't escape by moving out of range, or would you suggest that you require them to stay within 60ft for the duration? Otherwise I could see myself casting it on a tough enemy (or two) and then just dimensios-dooring 500ft away. If they don't have dispel, they're basically screwed then. Then again, with 45 ish damage if they fail half their saves, it's still pretty mediocre.
@@collegeoffoliage6776 It would certainly be unique. No, I wouldn't require staying within range. As you say, the damage is still not insane, even if you hold it for the duration, so I don't think its a candidate for abuse. It would open up some options with both twin or extend metamagic, making this an interesting spell for sorcerers (particularly Draconic)
3 years later.. still a good take. I'm surprised Geas didn't make the bad/overrated lists honestly. But then I've always had problems with how charm type spells work in D&D, all the way back to AD&D, when my players wanted Charm Person to be the "I win" button. Their power level never seems to track with other spells of their level (either possibly over or under-powered and so wide open to interpretation). The way I read Geas, you get to give some command that lasts up to 30 days, and if the target doesn't do it, it takes some damage once per day. Some argue that it compels the target to do the thing, and that only if they're prevented from doing so do they take damage, but if that were the case it's so overpowered for it's level that I can't imagine that was the intent of the author. (30 days of "do whatever I say" for example, is crazy powerful). On the other hand, if they're not compelled to follow your command, and can choose to simply take the damage, the 5d10 once per day is only really threatening to low level targets It also fails to capture the essence of what a Geas was in Celtic Myth.
Please do the cantrip video, at least best/worst, even if you dont think any are under or over rated by the community at large. May not be new info for vets, but useful for new players that might stumble on it.
OK, OK - fair enough. I want to help new players. I don't think I'll make it with the current format, just a little tutorial for newer players who need some help picking Cantrips, maybe I can cast a Guidance for them ;)
I disagree with your assessment of immolation. Not from a ‘Wizarding’ perspective, but having seen a perhaps niche build use it: one of my players is a fire-based draconic Sorcerer with Elemental Affinity. The niche pivots on his metamagic excluding the sculpt spell equivalent. Immolation has been very effective, even melting tier appropriate bbegs (level 11), without killing their friends in the tight spaces of the dungeons and rooms they find themselves in. That said, outside of that scenario, I can understand the criticism, I just imagine that niche isn’t really that niche, but I don’t have data to back that claim up. I just think you should revisit your evaluation from that angle, as there are other spells that are more universally poor. What do you think? Also, thank you for making these series of videos. As a DM, I have been a fan of your guides and the further insight into your ratings of spells has been invaluable. Keep on being awesome!
Skill Empowerment is pretty weak for a fifth level slot in my opinion. Tree Stride, like Swiftquiver, is doesn't strike me as worth climbing all the way to seventeenth level for. Wall of Light is, as you pointed out, a poor wall and a poor spell overall. Wrath of Nature might be flavorful, but really seems like a third level spell.
@@TreantmonksTemple not trying to say this in an agressive way, but you really should disclaim that you don't take sorcerer features into consideration on your evaluations.
While I agree with the suggestion Swift Quiver is over rated, it’s worth noting the bard-archer build that’s always talked about isn’t Valor bard, but Swords bard. Swords bard can add his inspiration dice to arrow damage, or after 14 just add an extra d6 damage to any and all arrows you fire if you aren’t adding your higher inspiration dice. Elven swords beards make entirely viable archers - many of the good bard spells don’t have a roll on them, so having spent less ASIs on Cha doesn’t need to make any difference (much as how an Eldritch Knight doesn’t need Int)
I have a Hexblade/Swords Bard that has a bow, I use defensive flourish with arrows regularly. However, the build I'm referencing is this one (which is a Valor Bard). I think not having Longbow Proficiency with College of Swords was a factor... ruclips.net/video/B881kY215CM/видео.html
A hefty rebuke of the Swift Quiver build. I actually came to the same conclusion. I'm making a Whispers Bard Hexblade Fighter with a little hand crossbow, and I'm taking holy weapon instead. I think 3 attacks with +2d8 is better than 4 attacks. Lasts an hour as well.
IIRC, handcrossbows are already cha to attack at level 1 (they lack two handed, and I'm getting a magic one soon for Pact Weapon) ,and since I'm using Pact of the Blade for my extra attack, I'm in pretty good shape for my sneaky magic guy. The only problem I have is that Holy Weapon makes me glow. X.X
SmugLookingBarrel Sharpshooter, no min range, no cover penalties, better to hit, action surge, better burst damage with Psychic Blades and Eldritch Smite. Also bard skills and spells.
I was thinking about Banishing Smite in relation to the "Power word" spells. Isn't it a lot like Power Word Kill, in that 50 hit points is practically nothing, and if you guess wrong about the current hit point levels, you only get the extra damage? Paladins gain access to this spell at the same level that full casters can get PWK, which means you're facing those high level monsters with this spell. Given how poorly you rated Power Word Stun/Kill, why do you see this spell more favorably? 5d10 extra damage is good, but is it worth the Paladin's highest level spell slot and concentration? For a Valor Bard, could be a decent magical secret. Not sure about the paladin.
Ultimate archer nowadays is Fighter 5/Ranger 3 (Gloom Stalker)/Fighter the rest. Gloom Stalker's extra first-round attack gets repeated if you Action Surge the first round. By character Lv. 8 you have a 3-attack first round, 3 levels earlier than a Fighter 11. By character Lv. 14 you have a 4-attack first round, 6 levels earlier than a Fighter 20. And yeah, Swift Quiver Bard build is awful.
That is a good archer build. It also gives the character hunter's mark for all those arrows. I will be doing an archery vid at some point - can I use this?
I'll add that both Battle Master and Eldritch Knight have their points for this build. Battle Master because it's just really good in general. Eldritch Knight because it gives you more spell slots for Hunter's Mark.
I like Battlemaster 11/ Gloom Stalker 4/ Hexblade (Blade Pact) 5. Having the shield spell, a Bow that you never can lose, and Eldritch Smite once a round that recharges on a short rest. Throw in the Battle Master maneuvers and watch out... You have a decent amount of slots for Hunter's Mark or Hex. You have the hex class feature as well
Great video don’t agree with everything but solid vid none the less I will say however that I am a Big Hold spell fan and here is my argument for hold monster over WoF .Granted don’t have books with me so this for the most part off the top of my head 1.wall of force only delays the inevitable fight with the dragon itself and I believe that only works if the dragon is flying which granted it almost certainly is, but still some dragons are smarter than others , and WoF only lets you deal with minions if he even had them.Hold monster on the other hand acutally makes dealing damage to the dragon easier and at worst If they fail the initial save it is a good way of burning up resistances.I can barely express with words how good a party’s average damage output becomes and here are some examples. 1. Barbarian brutal critical is godly 2. Rogue sneak attack at tenth level is roughly damage equivalent to 20thlvl sneak attack damage against a held creature. 3.Paladin smites are few and far between so being able to get the most out of that strong damage is amazing 4.these are spells that combo really well with Hold monster. 5. Inflict wounds,scorching Ray, Eldritch blast,Green flame blade,Booming blade, Shocking grasp, there are more if you aren’t the won who has to maintain con on the spell
Yes, I've heard these points and I understand them. The question I would put back is more about playstyle than power. If I give you a choice of 100% winning a battle (due to tactical advantage of divide and conquer) or a 50-70% chance of winning a battle easily (due to completely paralyzing an enemy you can now just finish at your leisure), which would you choose? I grant you that Hold Monster makes a battle easy if it sticks, while Wall of Force means you still have work to do....
Wow wasn’t expecting such a quick and great response, and I’m not saying wall of force is bad I’m just saying I prefer Hold but this debate ia kinda Like arguing what type of nuke is better thank you for the response
The cast time of swift quiver is a bonus action not an action. So you do fire 4 arrows on first round.... That said I do think it's better for ranger than bard. Wish you had spoken to that more. I think this is the first time you've mentioned a Ranger spell and you didn't even talk about it for Ranger.
Yes, I noticed my mistake on that, but I'm still not sure you can fire 4 arrows on round 1. The spell is a bonus action to cast, so you won't have a bonus action on that round to fire the 2 swift quiver arrows...
Great combo is to cast swift quiver and then a fifth level bestow curse on the following turn. You dont lose much damage to set up and the pay off is sweet. You essentially get off a better hex with no consentration.
At that point, you're using two 5th level spell slots and are required to get into melee range (Bestow Curse is touch range) and then move out of that creature's range to begin attacking. Somewhere along that route you're going to get attacked by the creature (whether by opportunity attack or staying there for a round) which endangers your swift quiver just getting slapped away. Also a 5th level spell doing better than a 1st level spell is to be expected because that's a significantly more expensive resource.
Flamestrike seems more party friendly than fireball at least, I guess. Also, decent if the enemy is flying... like Beholders... I guess? Also, why is antilife shell a druid spell? The class that is all about life.
Enervation becomes the strongest spell in game if you are a sorcerer with warcaster feat.. then you can twin it and boom. you are suddenly the front line of your party.
I can't remember now if he was my first or Pertwee was; PBS was running them as reruns at the time (they would always "catch up" to whatever the latest series was, but I didn't see either during "his time" - certainly not Pertwee or I would be ancient. (I do get a kick his brother is on Gotham tho)). That was a great era - cheesy sets but great stories. I still love the Key to Time arc and so much from that period. You probably remember they put the Tom Baker Dr. in a "cameo" in the spoof Castle Greyhawk.
@@sharkforce8147 Given the long casting time and that the only compulsion is the threat of damage, it is pretty situational, especially since any credible threat at that level can take 5d10 damage, so only weaker targets will be compelled. It may be useful in some campaigns, but not in most.
@@sharkforce8147 the problem is that an unwilling subject will do all they can to twist the command they are given. Plus, there are several other spells that are quicker and more reliable.
First of, it's great to see the legend on video. I've been reading your guides for years. Second, I noticed you eventually made a cantrip for beginners video, great. But you mentioned that you've discussed them thoroughly before, where can I find that discussion?
Well, I've been part of discussions on cantrips. Their use, which ones are good, not good, etc, has been discussed on the Enworld forums or Giant in the Playground, the WOTC forums as well when they still were around. I'm afraid I don't have any links to click. I certainly have evaluated wizard cantrips in my guide as well.
Us old school Skyblue text folks (been a fan since 3.5) don't mind hearing any of the old material in this new medium (YT). I like the structure and length of the videos btw, they're great. Those who haven't been apart of the text based community and are new to your work might feel like your channel is more comprehensive if cantrips (or other previous text/guides) are included and preferably in an organized playlist (I made one for me, probably a good idea for the channel). A lot of us throw on a playlist like a cassette tape and just burn through videos, listening to it during transport, walking the dog, painting mini's, doing the dishes, etc. Maybe you're anxious to start something specifically, maybe it's a chore to go over an old beaten horse and how awful some spell is but you are an authority when it comes to defining this game, in text and now on video. You could revisit all your guides, all the awesome builds and what not, they're smack-full of quality info and we'd love it, both the Skyblue text folks and the YT ftw folks. Thanks for the reply, congrats on the channel, I'm really happy to see you making videos. I'll be watching all of them and reading the Google docs as well. Thanks for reading.
Starting at 9:05 in your video you have a bit of a spoiler for Tomb of Annihilation. Whats done is done I guess but it would be nice if you were more careful in the future.
Hmmm, yeah, I didn't even notice Acererak sitting there. Although, I would suggest the cover alone of Tomb of Annihilation provides some significant hints as to whom might be the BBEG.
Agreed, many people will guess but some will just see a random lich and be surprised, "ITS WHO!!?". Small complaints aside thank you for the work you do for the community.
Hold Monster over-rated?? Crazy talk. Pair it with a Shadow Sorcerers Hound of Ill Omen. Then it's not gambling, it just fails the save, many times. Game ending.
IMHO it's Dawn that's the worst spell...concentration for 1 minute to maybe do 4d10 or 2d10. Yes, it's a 30 foot radius but many creatures can just Dash to get through that 60 foot range...and take NO damage because it's factored at the END of the turn.
Wall of light blinds. It's a nasty aoe debuff on casters especially if they don't have restoration. It will block LOS as well. I don't think anyone should use the attack from it tho. At very least it is better than circle of death. I very much agree that hold monster is bad, we have a better version at 4rth level in banishment. Swift quiver is the ultimate archer build because you have to be a full caster to use it. I wouldn't ever be able to play archers if this build didn't exist tbh. Also, deletes the need for cantrips. Any time you lose concentration on it or choose to cast a concentration spell it's fine, you are still a full caster. Otherwise, it's just a fun build that does comparable damage to the other melee characters so you don't feel like you are too far behind. How is not having the +2 to archery fighting style worse than having 4 attacks over the normal 2 anyway?
I am surprised Guardian of Nature didn't make you worse spells of fourth level list it is hardly worth considering for a third level slot as written Especially as its on the druid, ranger spell lists.
The Great Tree form is pretty lame, but the primal beast form would be a decent self buff for a melee ranger - grants speed (which a meleer always appreciates), darkvision, advantage on attacks and extra 1d6 force damage on those attacks - bonus action cast. Not amazing, but it's OK.
True but Polymorph is available to a Druid not a Ranger wouldn't a Ranger be better of casting Conjure woodland beings if they are going to run a concentration spell at 4th level?
@@glennferguson1265 It would depend on the situation. Keep in mind Conjure Woodland beings will conjure creatures that can not bypass immunity to nonmagical attacks, and also tend to be quite large, so are not usable in every environment, they can also potentially cramp the maneuverability of a party. Finally, depending on the power and frequency of your attacks, the advantage + 1d6 damage per hit could rack up more extra damage than a Conjure Woodland Beings spell - particularly against an enemy with a higher AC.
Use them for getting advantage for the party and just go with small or tiny creatures that take up minimal space. I do recall you saying something like Conjure woodland beings being one of the better 4th level spells right?
Great video! I do have some unsolicited advice, my apologies if it's unwelcome. I don't think it's in your best interest to criticize reprints without revision as with the spell Imollation. At least not in this particular series of videos. And I'll point out a bit of my reasoning: a) It's a complicated matter, since the dawn of time 'trap' spells, feats and even classes have had a place in DnD. And they have been made staples of the design, for many reasons that can be argued for vehemently. Still worthy of discussion, of course. b) I feel it also doesn't serve you well in this context: afterall, if there were no BAD bad spells, this amazing series of yours would be either pointless or far less entretaining (example, your visible physical pain talking about them). c) Going a on with the channel a bit further, repeating this pattern in the long run may create a perception of your opinion on the dev team that is more negative than it is in reality. In the interest of everyone inolved, this should be avoided. Especially on RUclips drama-driven times. d) This subject, I feel, is best served on a video dedicated to the game design of, say, spells. You alredy have immense familiarity on the subject, so it's not really a stretch. I feel this would be a better vehicle to your critique, and good content on top of it. e) To expand upon item 'd' (because I really want to see something like this), a series on the design of custom spells would be amazing. I'ts such a difficult thing for even for experienced DMs to do right. And most people who have made content to this effect have boiled down to 'do whatever you feel is right', and avoided the risk of not doing a great job. A serious mechanical take on this kind of content would be AMAZING for the intermidiate to advanced audience (wich I think is most of your audience). And I think, good sir, you are the right man for the job. Best regards
Any advice is always welcome! a) Maybe they have been staples of the design, but honestly I wish they weren't. I know I have made a name for myself by pointing them out, but I would be 100% OK with not having done that because they didn't exist in the first place. b) I'm always going to get emotional talking about D&D. It's my passion. If a spell is terrible, or slightly worse, I'm going to get emotional. It's not because of hate, it's the opposite. c) I truly have nothing but the highest respect for the design team. This is the game and edition I play not because it's my only option, but because it's my choice out of the literally hundreds of other RPG's I've tried. Still, that doesn't mean that it's beyond reproach. There have been some mistakes. I'm not looking to get rich of this, just wishing to get my chance to speak my mind about what I love, and what I wish was better. Particuarly, I feel defensive for new players, the ones who think something looks good and get dissapointed. I think it's in the designers best interest to get behind these players with me. d) This is out of my comfort zone to be sure. I'm more about evaluating existing rules than making them. Still, I will probably get into some house rules and design considerations eventually, though it's not at the top of my list. I'm first looking to give players a resource. e) There's a reason why there is playtesting. I consider myself a veteran at spell evaluation, but I am constantly surprised by the ways that players take a spell and use it in a way not intended. I'm experienced, but far from omicient. There needs to be a high level of trust between players and DM's to make new content and not have any worries of exploitation of loopholes.
Wall of light seems better then enervation because yeah it’s the same crappy damage, but it has a slightly less but still crappy control on top of it, and a not quite crappy, maybe even as good as to say the meh effect of blindness, as opposers to crappy damage and even crappier healing of enervation
@@TreantmonksTemple Good point. I'd still call that slightly worse, but not by much, if only because enemies usually have short lives or have the mobility and intelligence to survive and end the effect early (6 or 7 d12 vs 8 or 12 d8). Regardless, that's like debating between which rusty scalpel you want your back alley doctor to cut you open with.
Your whole rant about Swift Quiver missed 2 very important things:
1: That build starts with 1 level of fighter for the fighting style
2: You can go V. Human to get Sharpshooter
Also, the build is better as a swords bard, but that isnt as big of a change
I didn't miss anything. Straight 10 levels of Bard (no fighter dip until AFTER) is being recommended on big channels in 2018. They took Variant Human all right - Resilient Con.
ruclips.net/video/B881kY215CM/видео.html
I agree the build would be better with a fighter dip beforehand and with Swords Bard. Level 5 and 6 would hurt though.
(I've pinned the comment I'm replying to here so it is more clear the build that I am referring to in the video.)
I am not defending that build but there is another thing he has missed: the casting time is a bonus action and not an action
Still worse than a 9th bard casting Animate Objects.
@@TreantmonksTemple wow, that's a terrible idea.
I hadnt seen anyone reccomend that until now, previous it was always start fighter (giving you con save proficiency anyway), then go full bard, maybe get action surge after 11.
That seems like making the character intentionally worse to avoid early multiclass delays.
Having personally played the build from 2 to 11, level 6 isnt bad, you just focus on being a caster for that level with your weapon as a backup.
Level 5 sucked, basically had heat metal and 1 arrow a turn and that's it
That is true, though it actually makes no difference in gameplay. On Round 1 you can still only fire 2 arrows (except with your action rather than with your bonus action)
Timestamps
Worst
1:19 No 3
3:06 No 2
4:45 No 1
Best
6:33 No 3
7:44 No 2
12:19 No 1
Overrated
13:41 No 3
15:18 No 2
23:53 No 1
Underrated
17:30 No 3
19:27 No 2
21:14 No 1
You can give animated objects a "general command" like "bludgeon that guy to death" and they will follow it until the order is complete. Therefore you don't need to use a bonus action 'every' round to command them. Apart from concentration, used well they are fire & forget until a target dies. Also, carry 10 silver coins silver will bypass some resistances, and say 10 nails or daggers (possibly coated in poison) to transform them into piercing+poison dmg... generally if they're resistant to bludgeoning they're resistant to piercing, but with poison and not giving up a bonus action every round, it may well be worth it even on resistant monsters. Also, you can split them by having all 10 bludgeon a creature to death, then next round using a bonus action re-directing 5 of them to bludgeon a different monster while the other 5 finish off target 1... oh, also you had selected bludgeoning resistance to magical and non magical, not sure which it IS, but it's not both, so that drops the page count of resistant monsters as well.
Really enjoying your videos, as I did your guides. They also have been getting better/feel more natural.
Small thing: Wall of Force is even better, you cant dispel it with Dispel Magic.
Keep those great videos coming please!
"Creatures always like ending their turn where they take damage". Now I'm wondering if the spell designers spent to much time watching people play WoW
Another great vid! Can't wait for full caster tier spells. Glad to see you sorted out the audio issues.
For the audio, I just got lucky I think...I didn't really do much differently.
I'd say that's a good use of an ASI then.
Awesome video. A bit disappointed that you didnt talk about Bigbys Hand, it's one of my favorite spells
I recently fought a very powerful single enemy that was very good at getting away when out of his depth and whilst my paladin managed to get him with a hold person I used Animate Objects to crit him 10 times with ball bearings which ended up doing 20d4 + 40 piercing damage (came out as 91).
Nice!
I wish you would do a video on the best choices for a Bard's Magical Secrets. Including Lore Bard of course
Uno word counter spell and the rest is good
Thank you for telling me about that versatility about Animated Objects. I never saw it in that way and you taught me something new.
I once playing a campaign where Awakened animals, particularly CR 1 and lower dinosaurs (and similar creatures) were an available race (Long story short, the region was being attacked by two warring factions, and a local Druid tapped an available resource, the creatures of the land, to protect their home). I ended up playing as a Deinonychus Monk.
please do cantrips anyways even if you are repeating things. a lot of your newer viewers (like me) havent heard these things yet!
OK - I will do an informal Cantrip tutorial for newer players. It will come soon.
Loving the videos so far and can't wait to see how you feel about 5th level spells
Also, with Animate Objects. Just use silver coins, or hell if you got a stockpile of random magical items. Takes care of those resistance problems.
One note on Animate Objects... While I agree it's a great spell overall, and even outside of combat, it has some uses, sicne you can animate boulders or doors to simply move themselves out of your way... But it only has a +8 to hit. So yeah, enemies taking half of 65 is still better than a lot of ither damage dealing spells, but what if 7 of those attacks miss? Now you're doing nothing. It's really good when you first get it, and for a few levels after, but it's usefulness drops off as enemies get higher an higher AC, and you can't buff the attack bonus of dye objects you animated.
That's a fair point. Animate Objects does scale down slightly in effectiveness as you level up because the objects' attack bonus doesn't improve as player characters' proficiency bonus increases. So against level appropriate enemies, on average, you can expect the hit chance to drop to 55% then 50%. So at the highest levels of play, the average damage of Animate Objects drops from 65 to 54 points per turn, or half against creatures with resistance, which is *still* impressive for a 5th level single target damage spell. It's maybe just not as impressive as it was when you first got the spell. But equally, a 5th level slot is a much less valuable resource to a level 18 or 20 character than a level 10 one.
Animate object have to be non magical, but otherwise you could use silverware or other items like cold iron that might situationaly affect a certain creature. Larger creatures might, if the dm allowed, grapple. Or maybe they attack the bridge or cause an avalanche. You could also cover the objects in poison.
Most pcs are carrying around a handful of silver pieces in their coin purses at any given time, so silver at least should be readily available.
Have a paladin in your party who casts Crusaders Mantle. “While in the aura, each nonhostile creature in the aura (including you) deals an extra 1d4 radiant damage...”
@@MCAres117 That is a stunning combo that I have never before considered, and I am now suitably embarrassed....
Awaken cost 1000gp Agate which the spell consumes. That’s a lot of gold
It kinda depends. Is 1000 gp the cost of 2 uncommon magic items? Then it's a lot of gold. Is it instead the cost of enough ball bearings to fill a demiplane? Then it's not so much. Just depends on what the opportunity cost is.
Contagion because the creature must make three out of six saving throws to defeat the effects. Therefore even if it makes three saving throws in a row it is still under the effect of this devastating spell for at least three rounds. Also it's effects are so nasty that any creature will use a legendary save if it fails which could cause the creature to potentially use all three legendary saves.
Hello Treantmonk. First time I leave a comment here.
First of, I do have to thank you a lot for your guides and your general advice you give to players. As a new player I didn't understand enough about spell casting and how to approach it. So me and some other people at my table were getting torched because of bad spell selection and usage in our games. So I can't thank you enough for helping me having fun with spellcasters.
My god wizard following most of your spellselection and guidance was soooooo much fun to play.
That said I do have to say that your criticism about swift quiver and the forementioned "Ultimate Arcane Archer" guide was unwarranted and uncharacteristically harsh in my opinion. Btw he played the build himself in an online stream.
I'm currently playing this valor bard build (more or less) in a game and it's totally fun. I mean I'm more or less a bard that can still shoot arrows and deal mediocre damage, something I never achieved with the normal bard build. I know you're not big about dealing damage as a caster (because so many others can do it better), but last time I played a more conventional bard i felt left out. Sure Swift Quiver is not optimal, but it's fun to use. As for animate objects, I liked the spell, but my party hated it. So I used it very rarely.
I'm not here to criticize your opinion. Just wanted to tell you, I think you're rant was a little bit over the top. There are entire builds out there around shadow blade, that sound fun, but are suboptimal and you didn't rant about them.
So yeah, i was just feeling stupid playing a character that you think of as being a waste of space, but I have so much fun playing, so I decided to leave this comment.
Keep up the good work and if you read it this far down, I'd feel very honoured.
I did read that far down kerschraphael. Thank you and I'm glad you enjoy my guides.
You pretty much answer your own criticism here. "a bard that can still shoot arrows and deal mediocre damage". Calling that build an "ultimate archer" would be a severe overstatement, and misleading to new players who see the title and watch the video, wouldn't you agree?
Now, if the video was titled, "a hybrid archer/bard build that is fun to play" that at least wouldn't create unwarranted expectations, and someone looking for advice on making an "ultimate archer" would know to keep looking.
As for your build, I'm glad you are having fun. I see no problem with a Bard shooting arrows, I have a college of swords bard that shoots arrows myself, it's a ton of fun. However, I recommend raising Cha over Dex, and use arrows as a replacement for cantrips.
I don't know if you've reached level 10 yet or not, I still think there are better uses for your concentration at that level than swift quiver, but it sounds like you are already aware of the limits of the build, so at least you are making that decision without false expectations.
Well thank you very much. Yeah the title ultimate archer is just sily, just clickbait if you ask me. And everyone that has some experience with dnd5e should know that it's not as good (damagewise) as a simple fighterarcher or even a roguearcher. But I agree it's deceiving for new players.
It was just the first time that I thought you were too harsh.
Yes I'm still not sure if I take swift quiver, but I'm not in a rush to decide. Currently I'm playing with a dex of 18 and cha of 18 on lvl 6. First asi was dex (we did roll for stats because our dm wanted us to). Also I only took utility cantrips so far and mostly out of combat spells.
I just wanted to point out that one of the reasons I still think I want to take swift quiver is attacking twice on a bonus action and using my action for spellcasting. I do realize there are not that many bard spells that don't use my concentration, but maybe then I can truly be a bard that can cast and fling arrows every round.
Thanks again for all of your work and I'm looking forward to play one of your underrated builds in the future ;-) I'm already working on my personal nature cleric
@@kerschraphael Did you say Nature Cleric? Check this out if you haven't already:
docs.google.com/document/d/1K2kKOFIFin_zSzgXDCx0_UGcGqtJRSsCWVW5mOc3Mxk/edit#
Yeah, I was referring to this ;-)
@@TreantmonksTemple can i bother you a last time? What spells did you take on your college of the swords bard?
I wonder... as a Dwarven Forge Domain Cleric of Gond (with tinkering prof) would I use be able to use animate objects on silver statues I made to get around the non magical resistance?
You could cast animate objects on statues created with Artisan's Blessing, I'm not sure how that would get around resistance to non magical damage
@@TreantmonksTemple my thought was silver statues would count as "silvered bludgeoning damage". *Some Monsters that have immunity or Resistance to nonmagical Weapons are susceptible to silver Weapons* depends ofc on the DM if this is allowed (edit) nvm forgot it didnt apply to all monsters
@@Xi0rcaled Well, animate objects should work on non-magical silver, so in that case, I should expect it would work.
I think I spotted a flaw in the Animate Objects spell.
I think the spell was written before the final combat rules were decided, specifically, before the DEX to damage rules were codified. I think the original chart looked like this:
Tiny +4 1d4 damage (4str,18dex)
Small +4 1d8 damage. (6str,14dex)
Med +4 2d6 damage. (10str,12dex)
Large +6 2d10+2 damage (14str,10dex)
Huge +8 2d12+4 damage (18str,6dex)
..with HP and AC the same as now.
so the potential damage looks like this:
Tiny 8d4~20
Small 8d8~36
Med 8d6~28
Large 4d10+4~26 w/ +2 more to hit
Huge 2d12+4~17 w/ +4 more to hit
(+1 more med or +2 more small objects each)
This is pretty good , the 8+ tiny objects are a bit weak.. then again it's a lot easier to carry around 8 or 10 tiny objects. It's a fair comp. Then.. as my theory goes, Mearls and Co. after much argument finally decide to add DEX to damage for small weapons (despite Kobolds and Goblins getting Ubermench).
Right before pressing some editor is going over the PHB spells and notices Animate Objects. "Hey look" he says, "they forgot to add DEX, this is the wrong damage". So he "corrects" the damage:
Tiny 8d4 +32! ~52 w/ +8 to hit!
Small 8d8 +16 ~52 w/ +6 to hit
Med 8d6 +4 ~32 +5 to hit
Large 4d10+4 ~26 +6 to hit (same)
Huge 2d12+4 ~17 +8 to hit (same)
(not exactly fair comp anymore..)
..and it goes to press that way, without consulting the writer, and it gets through errata because it's not actually a mistake. We get this IMHO stupidly overpowered spell.
I'll bet that's exactly how it happened
Likely enough reason for me. I never look past the first line of this spell. Tiny creatures are way better.
Except around that level, you'll start running into creatures with non-magic resistance and the objects aren't magic so assuming max damage, at best they'll do 40. I'd say they're best for distracting mobs to save your allies from being targeted and getting off AoOs. Even then upcasting Fireball is arguably better for trashing mobs
Something like 10% of monster have magic resist. Of that total some will still take full damage from silver.
Hold Spells are good for Loremasters, since they can make the save STR or DEX based, which means if they fail (and with your choice of the two, that's hopefully common) they auto-fail subsequent saves.
Diviner’s can make it work also, but I would rather just Slow them using a 3rd level spell.
If you make the ten objects you animate out of silver, you then also bypass the nonsilvered damage resistance too. Had a player that walked around with a sack of silver shurikens for this exact reason, he'd animate ten of them and they'd bypass nonsilvered damage resistance.
Do you have to use your bonus action for the attacks of your animated objects ? Because you only need to give them an order and they obey. You can order them to kill a target, and they won't stop attacking until the target is dead, so you only have to use your bonus action once. That's usually how I play in my games
Is my interpretation right ?
If they are continually attacking the same creature I believe your interpretation is correct. Expect to need to switch targets regularly, as the creatures you target tend to die.
If you give them a broad order, expect it to be interpreted unwisely-- they are dumb objects. "Kill all creatures on the battlefield save me and Hallie McPallie" will mean dividing their attacks against all enemies equally.
Wall of Force creates a sphere with a radius of 10 feet. Ancient dragons are gargantuan size and could extend wings or the tail to be outside of the sphere. Since the sphere is invisible, can a dragon still take lair actions to cause effects where it can see?
Sometimes in your guides, you worry about touch spells. Do you account for a familiars ability to proxy touch spells in that evaluation? Also many people love the owl as a familiar as a surrogate help action provider, but have you considered the bat and its blind sight as a nice alternative.
Yeah, I tend not to use my familiars for touch spells. For the most part I don't end up with those spells at all. Yes, Bats are excellent familiars.
I think contagion is an excellent 5th level spell as it requires 3 successes to end the spell. Yes it is a con save but slimy doom(?) gives disadvantage and If the creature takes 1 point of damage it is stunned you could have a creature with legendary resistance stunned for 3 turns plus it may have to burn those legendary resistances. Meaning that you can do some serious damage or control such as polymorph on it with something like portent so it guarantees they fail. This assumes you have a cleric or druid in your party to cast the contagion
@Lance Clemings ugh, that sucks, I really wanted to get a chance to use it as it was RAW.
I think my favorite spell is Bigby’s hand. Yes it’s concentration but the benefits are fantastic
I like Bigby's Hand too - very versitle and fun.
Ho-lee smite. I haven't played d&d forever and I have seen u since the old optimization boards! Awesome to see you still working! Subscribed!
Wall of light isn't the worst thing in the world in some scenarios. And of course this depends on the DM, but if I were DMing and the party cast that while fleeing from a group of enemies down either a long narrow hall or thin bridge (which, let's face it, is a staple in fantasy and I have been guilty of using both--sometimes within the same session), I personally would have them move at half-speed if they move at all. Anything that causes blindness is subjective to the DM, after all, since there is the underlying panic of not being able to see, the stumbling about, obviously not moving at full speed, and any environmental hazards or traps are suddenly much more deadly--even if the enemy knew about them to begin with. Of course, the mechanics based DM will barely even shrug at this, sending the horde down passed the wall and tackling the party with disadvantage for that turn and forgetting about it later on, but a creative player with a creative DM will certainly be able to put some work into it.
It's somewhat unfair to compare spell damage to fireball, as the developers themselves said that they purposefully made the damage stronger than what a 3rd level spell should be. But yes, mostly the reason people find Flame Strike to be good is that it is on divine lists, and they have less blasty options than their main arcane counterparts.
Anti-life Shell....I've had players do some full silly things with that.
Awaken: You said it can be cast on a plant.
True, but it can be cast on a beast as well, as long as it has 1, 2 or 3 intelligence score.
I'd think most animals would be less frequently disadvantaged than the average awakened tree!? =)
Good point, an awakened Sabre Toothed Tiger would make a crazy-good mount. An awakened T-Rex? Well - it's a T-REX! The thing about a tree is it's a decent pick, and super-easy to find one. It doesn't necessarily have to be huge. It's like your own Treant. Just need to get it trained as a monk and you are golden!
I forgot about you and trees... :)
If the druid can afford it, it could awaken several trees, right? It could form its own grove?
But I could imagine having quite a few drawbacks. How do your new follower(s) react to your party using wood for fire? etc (^__^)
You people are talking about a grove of treants hobbeling about but are we just gonna gloss over the fact that within a couple of years a 9th druid could recreate an actual version of Jurrasic Park, all following his commands?
@@bacchus8081 He'd need 1000 gp per cast.
If we assume a level 10++ land druid who short rests often to regain those 5th level spell slots then he can... well, awaken very many per day.
I do not understand your "could recreate an actual version of Jurrasic Park", though. The druid does not create new creatures. But he "enlightens" them. And the bests in JP aren't enlightened. So as you see: I do not get your message =)
One thing you can do to improve Animate Objects is to buy a quiver of +1 arrows and animate 10 of those, that way your animated arrows will count as magic for the purpose of overcoming that resistance.
Unfortunately, it calls out specifically in the spell text that the objects animated be nonmagical. You could use silver(or other materials) objects to overcome that damage resistance however.
Only nonmagical objects may be animated
Actually my wizard just paid to have silvered, admantine shurikens made with party monk and just carries those around. I always loved Phantasm, so I use those and found a mini of a tall, skinny wizard type.
Well, whispers bards do have psychic blades to add on weapon damage. Swift quiver isn't something I took on mine, but I see the appeal of nova spam.
I'm holding out for tenser's transformation + crossbow expert for 3 non-melee hand crossbow shots at advantage per round with 1d8 + 2d12 + mod each hit before you apply the headache magic (5d6 online, 8d6 level after). Hexblade addition for the curse (crits 19 and 20, add proficiency to damage) and charisma-based hand crossbow. Comes online quite late, but it's fun being close to now. And bards have the luxury of other cool toys while they wait for their zany, overly-specific builds to manifest.
I liked the inclusion of antilife shell. :) Haven't had a chance to see it in play, but it does seem like it should be situationally punchy. Maybe it's typically rated lower since- if you're using it to shield/block anything- you need an answer for the long range weaponry and AoE strikes that just locked onto your concentrating self? Using it effectively might paint a pretty target.
Still, could be worth it. And there's always something neat about seeing a caster use a bodyguard-type spell to return the favor and shield their friends.
Now I'm not saying I'd allow it but... are magical flying knife attacks, *really* nonmagical? sounds pretty magic by definition to me....
Congratulations on 1K subscribers 🤗
Thanks Dawn!
I kept hoping you'd pick contagion for one of your best spells. It has so much tactical use in a fight against a legendary enemy with their resistences. If it hits that is all three of their legendary resistences wasted and they are still effected until they make their third and final save. Using Slimy Doom to give disadvantage on the very save they have to make against this spell is also crazy!
Can you lay the Flame Strike down, using it in the horizontal plane instead of vertical?
I would just like to add that I have my Familiar carry a small pouch of 10 silver pieces to animate as objects... lol takes care of the un-silvered resistance (obviously up to the DM, but pretty strong argument for it). Also means I always have the objects to animate wherever I am and I can use my 1st action to cast a buff or battlefield control spell while my Familiar uses its action to pour the coins out into position within 30ft of where I need them.
If I could take one spell in real life it would be Wall of Force, great for getting rid of unwanted guests
Greater restoration.
@@dustinsmith2021 Wish, but only because that's the only way to cast Plane Shift without the material components (finding a metal rod attuned to another plane of existence is pretty difficult around here.) Me and nine of my friends are leaving for Elysium.
@@Leafy1-j1l obviously you pick wish, but this is a 5th level spell video.
@@dustinsmith2021 If that's how we're playing, Dream, on the grounds that there are "people known to me" that need to be force-fed a few messages until behavior improves.
In D&D, 3d6 psychic damage isn't much of a motivator, but given that people in this world are fragile enough to die from a single dagger crit, most of us don't have that many HP. Wenseslao Moguel was the last guy to hit tier 2 in any class.
Enervation, IMO, is a great spell for a Hexblade who needs some healing
Can you talk about best spell Combos Best/Worst/Over & Under?
If I can come up with enough, that's maybe a video for the future.
Great video as always; lots of excellent insight.
What's your take on Destructive Wave? I know blasty spells aren't generally a great use of higher level slots, but it seems to have a lot going for it: no friendly fire, two good types of damage, and a possible secondary effect.
The advantages you mention. The disadvantages are targeting a strong save, the 2ndary effect is prone, which is fairly minor, and 10d6 damage at this level is fine, but not impressive. Overall, I would rate it above average.
Another advantage of Destructive Wave is that Bards get it earlier then it’s intended recipient, Paladins. It also has an energy type that prevents regeneration. It’s much better when used at 9th level as a Bard then at 17th level as a Paladin.
So like, incredibly situational use, but one of my PCs is a protector Aasimar Divine Sorlock, and so they activated their form, flew up in the air and then next turn casted wall of light, and at that level was dealing an additional 11 damage every time they used they're action to manipulate the wall of light, then would quicken their eldritch agonizing repelling blast to knock back 3 targets back into the wall, this was just an absolute metric load of radiant/force damage with a minor debuff that would slap the Grave Titan/Fanged Skeletons (CR 12/2 strong homebrew creatures that was Hard difficulty at minimum) encounter I had planned and honestly caught me off guard with how debilitating it was in that one circumstance, granted still think there's better things out there, also why are most undead not immune to the blind condition, just primarily poisoned, frightened or exhaustion?? Now I know
Isn't it unfair to compare wizard 5th lvl spells, vs paladins/rangers 5th lvl spells? thinking about paladin/ranger ONLY spells. Just throwing it out there, what do you think?
As far as I know, a 5th level spell is supposed to be a certain power level, regardless of the class list it's on. As I do these lists, that seems to hold, as if it wasn't the case, we would expect certain spell lists to dominate the best/worst lists, but that hasn't happened.
I don’t know how the devs balance spells but the interpretation I always see is that due to the fact that they have less slots and aren’t primary casters, they tend to beef up Ranger and paladin spells just a bit especially with paladin
Animate Objects with +1Silver Bullets solves most of the problems people might have with it.
You could do silver, but AO does not work on magic objects.
Loving your videos!!! Disagree about Antilife Shell anyway but what can you do, everybody has its own experience. Go on with your list and I'm looking forward to finding out what your next project will be!!
I totally get it. These rankings are completely subjective. Thank you for the compliment! After spells I think we'll talk about some underrated character options, then maybe some build guides, I'm intending to make videos approximately 1/week for the indefinite future.
A lot of people seem to think that charm does more than it actually does. A charmed creature regards you as a friend. That's all. It doesn't automatically obey orders or follow you around like a puppy. So with Awaken, you spend 1000 gold pieces to have a friendly awakened tree. It'll be inclined to help you, but that doesn't mean it'll follow you if you decide to leave the forest(or be there if you go back to said forest), nor will it necessarily fight for you.
More reasons Animates Objects is Awesome: 1 carry around a sack of knives to use for piercing or slashing damage. 2 carry around a sack of silver coins to bypass that resistance OH WAIT 3 add insult to injury and have the enemy archer's own bolts fly back at them 4 add some utility by having the object go in to flank with the fighter and the Rogue giving both advantage, or if you don't play with flanking, just have half of them use the Aid Action. 5 if your DM is real spicy, have your silvered coins be sitting in a vial of acid (as silver is acid resistant) or poison and see if you can squeeze some extra damage in. I call the Acid one Troll's Bane.
Antilife Shell - Did this get an errata or ruling by Sage Advice because, per the PHB, it doesn't push enemies away when cast? "Hedging Out" refers to what the spell does in general not what it does as it's cast and even if it did Hedging Out doesn't mean push. Other spells, where they create an 'in or out' zone or effect, specifically call out how they move creatures (see Wall of Force for example).
I'm curious about one comment you made off hand about immolation, and how it wasn't buffed on its reprint in Xanathar's. Would you happen to know a couple that were buffed/nerfed for that book? I wasn't aware any of the spells changed
Off the top of my head I know for sure they nerfed Pyrotechnics. In Elemental Evil it could be used on magical flame.
Circle of power is even better cause at level 18 it would mean not only would would they get advantage but everyone in the area would get a bonus equal to the paladins charisma
Remember to purchase silvered adamantine cutlery for the animate objects spell while in town!
It decreases the list of monsters with resistances by one fifth x)
Good thing you explained how overrated swift quiver is. People always theorycraft those builds with the premise that you can keep it up forever, it works against everything and there is no miss chance. Only someone oblivious to the fact that bard has animate objects would ever think that this is a good idea. Bard is one of the better users of animate objects. Grapple + Animate Objects, Dissonant Whispers + Animate Objects.
I dont think you mentioned this, so I'm going to. Not only do bards get no bonuses to archery, but swift quiver also takes concentration, so that beautiful bard spell list full of concentration spells like hypnotic pattern, suggestion, etc is pretty much off limits while you're off trying to be Legolas.
I almost fell for this trap with the first character I made in 5e, but fortunately decided to go with a lore bard instead, and good lord am I glad I did.
Yes, it's actually a very comparable spell mechanically to Animate Objects. Both take an action to cast, both use your concentration, both are activated by using your bonus action. The only difference is that one does lots of damage, the other does not. A pretty important distinction!
To top it all off, animate objects is already on the bard spell list, meaning you don't have to waste one of your precious magical secrets on it AND it comes a character level sooner.
Remember when enervation was good? I miss 3e's (twinned, empowered, maximized, etc) enervation. The 5e spell is just sad. Shame about 5e necromancy in general. There are a few good necromancy spells for a generalist mage, but not really enough to stand as a whole school on its own or to flesh out a reasonable portion of a thematic specialist's spellbook.
I sure do. Ray of enfeeblement was good too...
Enervation was OP in 3/3.5ed, OP in "WTF they were thinking?" way, together with things like Shivering Touch, or Cloudkill. But they do not deserve to be changed into utter crap
Wall of Force can't be handled by dispel magic. But I do think you can teleport through it.
Yes you can since it an invisible wall and telports spells say line of sight. Sage advice even indicates that you could use your familiar targeting through it senses.
www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/09/targeting-spellsclear-path-can-i-target-across-wall-of-force/
Do you plan on doing sub-classes aka domains/circles/paths in the future? We know how you feel about Wizard schools, but what interested me in your cleric guide was that you said Nature was one of the best domains for Cleric, where it would seem (to me) other guides or creators would disagree with you. I like your logical approach to rating spells and would be interested in class ratings maybe even tiers.
Yes! Also, other creators will almost certainly disagree with my opinion on trickery clerics (often decried as "the worst" domain)
you are amazing. you deserve more subs!
1:20 I know it's rhetorical, but you gave me three choices and three guesses :P
I can predict your guesses too:
1: Wall of Light
2: Wall of Light
3: Wall of Light
Hold Monster for an Enchantment Wizard is insane. They basically upcast every high level enchantment spell
Swift quiver is a bonus action to cast, not an action. Valor bards spending ASIs on dexterity instead of charisma shouldn't be an issue because they can dip hexblade 1 for hex warrior and hexblade's curse.
Hexblades can't use hex warrior on a bow (unless they have Improved Pact Weapon - which requires 3 levels of Warlock). Good call on Bonus action - though technically it would make no difference (2 arrows on round 1 either way)
Hexblades can use hex warrior on a hand crossbow, since it lacks the two handed property.
Wizards seem to think that any spell which does damage each round is already too powerful and so make sure it's weak in every other way. Who knows how spiritual weapon got through without costing an action or concentration.
Isn't the tradeoff that you spend a spell slot to do what the fighter can for free?
Awaken is lowkey op. A druid with down time and access to a forest can have a gang of like 30 awakened trees under their control lol
I love the idea of awaken. But the creature doesn’t become your minion, or even your ally. All it is is charmed. Meaning it won’t harm you, and you have advantage on Charisma checks.
Not that useful, unless you’re really good at talking intelligent trees into being your minions.
It actually really bugs me, that 5e Druids have no tools to get longer-term minions other than planar binding. Not even a familiar :(
Judd W Rose correct. You have to role play it into your friend. Once you have the spell there is no reason why your stronghold shouldn’t have many awakened around. If you feed the tree it can tell you about who stopped by.
Any suggestions as to how immolation could be fixed? (How much would you increase the damage for instance)
Asking because I have an NPC sorcerer where the spell fits really well thematically (and I can se it being slightly less terrible if you're fighting a few strong enemies and twin it).
Keep in mind that this is just off the top of my head, and I haven't playtested this, but I would have the effect continue regardless of saving throw. So save on round 1=1/2 damage that round, save on subsequent rounds=no damage that round, but the effect continues for the duration or until concentration ends.
@@TreantmonksTemple Ooh, that's fun. That would be a pretty unique effect as far as I'm aware? Not too different from keeping someone inn an aura like spirit guardians, or following them around with a flaming sphere, except that they can't escape by moving out of range, or would you suggest that you require them to stay within 60ft for the duration? Otherwise I could see myself casting it on a tough enemy (or two) and then just dimensios-dooring 500ft away. If they don't have dispel, they're basically screwed then.
Then again, with 45 ish damage if they fail half their saves, it's still pretty mediocre.
@@collegeoffoliage6776 It would certainly be unique. No, I wouldn't require staying within range. As you say, the damage is still not insane, even if you hold it for the duration, so I don't think its a candidate for abuse. It would open up some options with both twin or extend metamagic, making this an interesting spell for sorcerers (particularly Draconic)
3 years later.. still a good take.
I'm surprised Geas didn't make the bad/overrated lists honestly. But then I've always had problems with how charm type spells work in D&D, all the way back to AD&D, when my players wanted Charm Person to be the "I win" button.
Their power level never seems to track with other spells of their level (either possibly over or under-powered and so wide open to interpretation).
The way I read Geas, you get to give some command that lasts up to 30 days, and if the target doesn't do it, it takes some damage once per day. Some argue that it compels the target to do the thing, and that only if they're prevented from doing so do they take damage, but if that were the case it's so overpowered for it's level that I can't imagine that was the intent of the author. (30 days of "do whatever I say" for example, is crazy powerful). On the other hand, if they're not compelled to follow your command, and can choose to simply take the damage, the 5d10 once per day is only really threatening to low level targets
It also fails to capture the essence of what a Geas was in Celtic Myth.
Can’t dispel wall of force. Taebyn-gitp
Please do the cantrip video, at least best/worst, even if you dont think any are under or over rated by the community at large. May not be new info for vets, but useful for new players that might stumble on it.
OK, OK - fair enough. I want to help new players. I don't think I'll make it with the current format, just a little tutorial for newer players who need some help picking Cantrips, maybe I can cast a Guidance for them ;)
I disagree with your assessment of immolation. Not from a ‘Wizarding’ perspective, but having seen a perhaps niche build use it: one of my players is a fire-based draconic Sorcerer with Elemental Affinity. The niche pivots on his metamagic excluding the sculpt spell equivalent. Immolation has been very effective, even melting tier appropriate bbegs (level 11), without killing their friends in the tight spaces of the dungeons and rooms they find themselves in. That said, outside of that scenario, I can understand the criticism, I just imagine that niche isn’t really that niche, but I don’t have data to back that claim up. I just think you should revisit your evaluation from that angle, as there are other spells that are more universally poor. What do you think?
Also, thank you for making these series of videos. As a DM, I have been a fan of your guides and the further insight into your ratings of spells has been invaluable. Keep on being awesome!
Certainly if you specialize in fire magic, it's a bit better. What spells do you think are universally poorer?
While it isn't a great spell, sometimes it's useful to turn a fallen enemy into ash. I definitely rank it above wall of light.
Skill Empowerment is pretty weak for a fifth level slot in my opinion. Tree Stride, like Swiftquiver, is doesn't strike me as worth climbing all the way to seventeenth level for. Wall of Light is, as you pointed out, a poor wall and a poor spell overall. Wrath of Nature might be flavorful, but really seems like a third level spell.
@@TreantmonksTemple not trying to say this in an agressive way, but you really should disclaim that you don't take sorcerer features into consideration on your evaluations.
While I agree with the suggestion Swift Quiver is over rated, it’s worth noting the bard-archer build that’s always talked about isn’t Valor bard, but Swords bard. Swords bard can add his inspiration dice to arrow damage, or after 14 just add an extra d6 damage to any and all arrows you fire if you aren’t adding your higher inspiration dice. Elven swords beards make entirely viable archers - many of the good bard spells don’t have a roll on them, so having spent less ASIs on Cha doesn’t need to make any difference (much as how an Eldritch Knight doesn’t need Int)
I have a Hexblade/Swords Bard that has a bow, I use defensive flourish with arrows regularly. However, the build I'm referencing is this one (which is a Valor Bard). I think not having Longbow Proficiency with College of Swords was a factor...
ruclips.net/video/B881kY215CM/видео.html
A hefty rebuke of the Swift Quiver build. I actually came to the same conclusion. I'm making a Whispers Bard Hexblade Fighter with a little hand crossbow, and I'm taking holy weapon instead. I think 3 attacks with +2d8 is better than 4 attacks. Lasts an hour as well.
A bit of Hexblade can turn everything around for a Bard with a weapon! Especially if you pick up Improved Pact Weapon.
IIRC, handcrossbows are already cha to attack at level 1 (they lack two handed, and I'm getting a magic one soon for Pact Weapon) ,and since I'm using Pact of the Blade for my extra attack, I'm in pretty good shape for my sneaky magic guy. The only problem I have is that Holy Weapon makes me glow. X.X
But that that point, why not just use Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast?
SmugLookingBarrel Sharpshooter, no min range, no cover penalties, better to hit, action surge, better burst damage with Psychic Blades and Eldritch Smite. Also bard skills and spells.
You can even use Animate Objects on your arrows to pretend to use Swift Quiver
I was thinking about Banishing Smite in relation to the "Power word" spells. Isn't it a lot like Power Word Kill, in that 50 hit points is practically nothing, and if you guess wrong about the current hit point levels, you only get the extra damage? Paladins gain access to this spell at the same level that full casters can get PWK, which means you're facing those high level monsters with this spell. Given how poorly you rated Power Word Stun/Kill, why do you see this spell more favorably? 5d10 extra damage is good, but is it worth the Paladin's highest level spell slot and concentration? For a Valor Bard, could be a decent magical secret. Not sure about the paladin.
Ultimate archer nowadays is Fighter 5/Ranger 3 (Gloom Stalker)/Fighter the rest. Gloom Stalker's extra first-round attack gets repeated if you Action Surge the first round. By character Lv. 8 you have a 3-attack first round, 3 levels earlier than a Fighter 11. By character Lv. 14 you have a 4-attack first round, 6 levels earlier than a Fighter 20.
And yeah, Swift Quiver Bard build is awful.
That is a good archer build. It also gives the character hunter's mark for all those arrows. I will be doing an archery vid at some point - can I use this?
Sure!
I'll add that both Battle Master and Eldritch Knight have their points for this build. Battle Master because it's just really good in general. Eldritch Knight because it gives you more spell slots for Hunter's Mark.
I like Battlemaster 11/ Gloom Stalker 4/ Hexblade (Blade Pact) 5. Having the shield spell, a Bow that you never can lose, and Eldritch Smite once a round that recharges on a short rest. Throw in the Battle Master maneuvers and watch out... You have a decent amount of slots for Hunter's Mark or Hex. You have the hex class feature as well
Great video don’t agree with everything but solid vid none the less I will say however that I am a Big Hold spell fan and here is my argument for hold monster over WoF .Granted don’t have books with me so this for the most part off the top of my head
1.wall of force only delays the inevitable fight with the dragon itself and I believe that only works if the dragon is flying which granted it almost certainly is, but still some dragons are smarter than others , and WoF only lets you deal with minions if he even had them.Hold monster on the other hand acutally makes dealing damage to the dragon easier and at worst If they fail the initial save it is a good way of burning up resistances.I can barely express with words how good a party’s average damage output becomes and here are some examples.
1. Barbarian brutal critical is godly
2. Rogue sneak attack at tenth level is roughly damage equivalent to 20thlvl sneak attack damage against a held creature.
3.Paladin smites are few and far between so being able to get the most out of that strong damage is amazing
4.these are spells that combo really well with Hold monster.
5. Inflict wounds,scorching Ray, Eldritch blast,Green flame blade,Booming blade, Shocking grasp, there are more if you aren’t the won who has to maintain con on the spell
Yes, I've heard these points and I understand them. The question I would put back is more about playstyle than power. If I give you a choice of 100% winning a battle (due to tactical advantage of divide and conquer) or a 50-70% chance of winning a battle easily (due to completely paralyzing an enemy you can now just finish at your leisure), which would you choose? I grant you that Hold Monster makes a battle easy if it sticks, while Wall of Force means you still have work to do....
Wow wasn’t expecting such a quick and great response, and I’m not saying wall of force is bad I’m just saying I prefer Hold but this debate ia kinda
Like arguing what type of nuke is better thank you for the response
Question I forgot to ask but why isn’t holy weapon in here
The cast time of swift quiver is a bonus action not an action. So you do fire 4 arrows on first round....
That said I do think it's better for ranger than bard. Wish you had spoken to that more. I think this is the first time you've mentioned a Ranger spell and you didn't even talk about it for Ranger.
Yes, I noticed my mistake on that, but I'm still not sure you can fire 4 arrows on round 1. The spell is a bonus action to cast, so you won't have a bonus action on that round to fire the 2 swift quiver arrows...
@@TreantmonksTemple
By God I think you might be right by Raw.
Great combo is to cast swift quiver and then a fifth level bestow curse on the following turn. You dont lose much damage to set up and the pay off is sweet. You essentially get off a better hex with no consentration.
At that point, you're using two 5th level spell slots and are required to get into melee range (Bestow Curse is touch range) and then move out of that creature's range to begin attacking. Somewhere along that route you're going to get attacked by the creature (whether by opportunity attack or staying there for a round) which endangers your swift quiver just getting slapped away. Also a 5th level spell doing better than a 1st level spell is to be expected because that's a significantly more expensive resource.
@@ThienVuT yeah bit what if there were more or less what ifs?
Flamestrike seems more party friendly than fireball at least, I guess. Also, decent if the enemy is flying... like Beholders... I guess?
Also, why is antilife shell a druid spell? The class that is all about life.
Enervation becomes the strongest spell in game if you are a sorcerer with warcaster feat..
then you can twin it and boom. you are suddenly the front line of your party.
I have to disagree
In defence of Enervation: Having hitpoints is better than not having hitpoints
I won't argue with that.
+1 internets for the use of the old Doctor Who clip.
Tom Baker is my hero, and my first doctor.
I can't remember now if he was my first or Pertwee was; PBS was running them as reruns at the time (they would always "catch up" to whatever the latest series was, but I didn't see either during "his time" - certainly not Pertwee or I would be ancient. (I do get a kick his brother is on Gotham tho)).
That was a great era - cheesy sets but great stories. I still love the Key to Time arc and so much from that period.
You probably remember they put the Tom Baker Dr. in a "cameo" in the spoof Castle Greyhawk.
I would like to hear your opinion on geas. I always hear people say it is an amazing spell but I don't see it.
It very, very nearly made my worst list. People say it's amazing? Wow.
Ty for the imput. Been a huge fan since the pathfinder wizard guide.
IMO, Geas falls into the category of spells that should be used by the DM on the player, not for the player to cast themselves.
@@sharkforce8147 Given the long casting time and that the only compulsion is the threat of damage, it is pretty situational, especially since any credible threat at that level can take 5d10 damage, so only weaker targets will be compelled. It may be useful in some campaigns, but not in most.
@@sharkforce8147 the problem is that an unwilling subject will do all they can to twist the command they are given. Plus, there are several other spells that are quicker and more reliable.
I just realized how bad Ennervation is... just compare it to the 3rd level spell Vampiric Touch.
With animate objects, animate 10 silver coins and you bypass all resistances to non-silvered weapons :D
First of, it's great to see the legend on video. I've been reading your guides for years.
Second, I noticed you eventually made a cantrip for beginners video, great. But you mentioned that you've discussed them thoroughly before, where can I find that discussion?
Well, I've been part of discussions on cantrips. Their use, which ones are good, not good, etc, has been discussed on the Enworld forums or Giant in the Playground, the WOTC forums as well when they still were around. I'm afraid I don't have any links to click. I certainly have evaluated wizard cantrips in my guide as well.
Us old school Skyblue text folks (been a fan since 3.5) don't mind hearing any of the old material in this new medium (YT). I like the structure and length of the videos btw, they're great.
Those who haven't been apart of the text based community and are new to your work might feel like your channel is more comprehensive if cantrips (or other previous text/guides) are included and preferably in an organized playlist (I made one for me, probably a good idea for the channel).
A lot of us throw on a playlist like a cassette tape and just burn through videos, listening to it during transport, walking the dog, painting mini's, doing the dishes, etc.
Maybe you're anxious to start something specifically, maybe it's a chore to go over an old beaten horse and how awful some spell is but you are an authority when it comes to defining this game, in text and now on video.
You could revisit all your guides, all the awesome builds and what not, they're smack-full of quality info and we'd love it, both the Skyblue text folks and the YT ftw folks.
Thanks for the reply, congrats on the channel, I'm really happy to see you making videos. I'll be watching all of them and reading the Google docs as well.
Thanks for reading.
Starting at 9:05 in your video you have a bit of a spoiler for Tomb of Annihilation. Whats done is done I guess but it would be nice if you were more careful in the future.
Hmmm, yeah, I didn't even notice Acererak sitting there. Although, I would suggest the cover alone of Tomb of Annihilation provides some significant hints as to whom might be the BBEG.
Agreed, many people will guess but some will just see a random lich and be surprised, "ITS WHO!!?". Small complaints aside thank you for the work you do for the community.
Hold Monster over-rated?? Crazy talk. Pair it with a Shadow Sorcerers Hound of Ill Omen. Then it's not gambling, it just fails the save, many times. Game ending.
I completely agree 10 lvl of bard is the worst archer build.
Valor Bards can be the ultimate Ranger, but ultimate Archer? Nah.
IMHO it's Dawn that's the worst spell...concentration for 1 minute to maybe do 4d10 or 2d10. Yes, it's a 30 foot radius but many creatures can just Dash to get through that 60 foot range...and take NO damage because it's factored at the END of the turn.
Out of curiosity, why exactly are smite spells bad? I've never played a paladin.
Wall of light blinds. It's a nasty aoe debuff on casters especially if they don't have restoration. It will block LOS as well. I don't think anyone should use the attack from it tho. At very least it is better than circle of death.
I very much agree that hold monster is bad, we have a better version at 4rth level in banishment.
Swift quiver is the ultimate archer build because you have to be a full caster to use it. I wouldn't ever be able to play archers if this build didn't exist tbh. Also, deletes the need for cantrips. Any time you lose concentration on it or choose to cast a concentration spell it's fine, you are still a full caster. Otherwise, it's just a fun build that does comparable damage to the other melee characters so you don't feel like you are too far behind.
How is not having the +2 to archery fighting style worse than having 4 attacks over the normal 2 anyway?
I am surprised Guardian of Nature didn't make you worse spells of fourth level list it is hardly worth considering for a third level slot as written Especially as its on the druid, ranger spell lists.
The Great Tree form is pretty lame, but the primal beast form would be a decent self buff for a melee ranger - grants speed (which a meleer always appreciates), darkvision, advantage on attacks and extra 1d6 force damage on those attacks - bonus action cast. Not amazing, but it's OK.
True but Polymorph is available to a Druid not a Ranger wouldn't a Ranger be better of casting Conjure woodland beings if they are going to run a concentration spell at 4th level?
@@glennferguson1265 It would depend on the situation. Keep in mind Conjure Woodland beings will conjure creatures that can not bypass immunity to nonmagical attacks, and also tend to be quite large, so are not usable in every environment, they can also potentially cramp the maneuverability of a party. Finally, depending on the power and frequency of your attacks, the advantage + 1d6 damage per hit could rack up more extra damage than a Conjure Woodland Beings spell - particularly against an enemy with a higher AC.
Use them for getting advantage for the party and just go with small or tiny creatures that take up minimal space. I do recall you saying something like Conjure woodland beings being one of the better 4th level spells right?
There is a good chance that enervation is more of a DM spell
Great video! I do have some unsolicited advice, my apologies if it's unwelcome.
I don't think it's in your best interest to criticize reprints without revision as with the spell Imollation. At least not in this particular series of videos. And I'll point out a bit of my reasoning:
a) It's a complicated matter, since the dawn of time 'trap' spells, feats and even classes have had a place in DnD. And they have been made staples of the design, for many reasons that can be argued for vehemently. Still worthy of discussion, of course.
b) I feel it also doesn't serve you well in this context: afterall, if there were no BAD bad spells, this amazing series of yours would be either pointless or far less entretaining (example, your visible physical pain talking about them).
c) Going a on with the channel a bit further, repeating this pattern in the long run may create a perception of your opinion on the dev team that is more negative than it is in reality. In the interest of everyone inolved, this should be avoided. Especially on RUclips drama-driven times.
d) This subject, I feel, is best served on a video dedicated to the game design of, say, spells. You alredy have immense familiarity on the subject, so it's not really a stretch. I feel this would be a better vehicle to your critique, and good content on top of it.
e) To expand upon item 'd' (because I really want to see something like this), a series on the design of custom spells would be amazing. I'ts such a difficult thing for even for experienced DMs to do right. And most people who have made content to this effect have boiled down to 'do whatever you feel is right', and avoided the risk of not doing a great job. A serious mechanical take on this kind of content would be AMAZING for the intermidiate to advanced audience (wich I think is most of your audience). And I think, good sir, you are the right man for the job.
Best regards
Any advice is always welcome!
a) Maybe they have been staples of the design, but honestly I wish they weren't. I know I have made a name for myself by pointing them out, but I would be 100% OK with not having done that because they didn't exist in the first place.
b) I'm always going to get emotional talking about D&D. It's my passion. If a spell is terrible, or slightly worse, I'm going to get emotional. It's not because of hate, it's the opposite.
c) I truly have nothing but the highest respect for the design team. This is the game and edition I play not because it's my only option, but because it's my choice out of the literally hundreds of other RPG's I've tried. Still, that doesn't mean that it's beyond reproach. There have been some mistakes. I'm not looking to get rich of this, just wishing to get my chance to speak my mind about what I love, and what I wish was better. Particuarly, I feel defensive for new players, the ones who think something looks good and get dissapointed. I think it's in the designers best interest to get behind these players with me.
d) This is out of my comfort zone to be sure. I'm more about evaluating existing rules than making them. Still, I will probably get into some house rules and design considerations eventually, though it's not at the top of my list. I'm first looking to give players a resource.
e) There's a reason why there is playtesting. I consider myself a veteran at spell evaluation, but I am constantly surprised by the ways that players take a spell and use it in a way not intended. I'm experienced, but far from omicient. There needs to be a high level of trust between players and DM's to make new content and not have any worries of exploitation of loopholes.
@@TreantmonksTemple All fair. I did exercise law on the behalf of a fiend of orderly disposition a bit there. Heh.
Screw Immolation. Cheers.
Wall of light seems better then enervation because yeah it’s the same crappy damage, but it has a slightly less but still crappy control on top of it, and a not quite crappy, maybe even as good as to say the meh effect of blindness, as opposers to crappy damage and even crappier healing of enervation
Wall of Light doesn’t provide any healing.
Didnt realize until now Enervation is worse then witch bolt. If you did witch bolt at 5th, it would be doing about twice as much damage.
Witch bolt actually scales terribly, as the added damage is only on round 1.
@@TreantmonksTemple Good point. I'd still call that slightly worse, but not by much, if only because enemies usually have short lives or have the mobility and intelligence to survive and end the effect early (6 or 7 d12 vs 8 or 12 d8). Regardless, that's like debating between which rusty scalpel you want your back alley doctor to cut you open with.
Swift quiver isnt as bad as you make it out to be
Any build that takes longer than 5 (arguably 3) levels to "go online" is a bad build for new players.
Flamesrike is the best spell against centowers /s