There has been a lot of debate about whether the samaritan at greenwood engaged the criminal at forty feet or forty yards. I went to the Greenwood park mall and measured the food court with a laser range finder. We don't know which post the samaritan used for cover/stabilization, but depending on which post he used, it could have easily been forty yards or more. So the people claiming that there's "no way" it could be that far are speaking from complete ignorance. Unfortunately, a computer snafu destroyed the camera chip and the video was lost.
The other question that I didn't hear asked, was can you live with yourself, knowing that you could have done something, but didn't? That can be nearly as difficult as missing the target and causing collateral damage.
I sincerely hope this situation gives future mass shooters pause. Now they have the real example of some dude with a Glock in his waistband beaning them from the other side of the food court.
Unfortunately some people in the spotlight are trying to make him out to be a criminal because he was in the mall with a gun trying to take away the fact he saved lives
To Eli's credit, he's declined all interviews until the families dealing with the loss of loved ones have had sufficient time to mourn. As far as the incident, he did start from 40 yards and during those 15 seconds of directed fire, closed on the target while telling bystanders to get to safety. All things considered, he's a class act.
@@308dad8 exactly. There’s really only two reasonable routes. Complete anonymity, or complete gun rights advocate. Some may want that to spread positive awareness. He may have other life goals
@@jtlegionnaire6310 Eli Dicken will probably do one, and only one, interview about the incident one year from now and only with somebody that he trusts. Massad Ayoob might be a good person to do the interview. He is calm and will not pepper Eli with irrelevant questions.
The fact that you called it a Greenwood drill and not a Dickens because you don't know if he wants to be associated with it shows how much you understand this community. So many people that are involved in these shootings don't want the fame and glory, that's not why they do what they do.
I grew up in Greenwood. I graduated from Greenwood Community High School (so did my wife) in the 2000s. I worked in the mall for a few years. I've been in that exact spot hundreds, if not thousands, of times. Also, when that shooting took place, my niece was at the mall with her boyfriend. They weren't in the food court at the time, thank God. And, my wife works with Elisjsha's sister in Columbus Indiana right now. In 2019, my wife and I were at the mall doing a few things when a security guard approached me, telling me that firearms were prohibited from the premises. I had an OWB holster on and I knew I had an IWB holster in the car. So he escorted me out towards the entrance where our car was parked. When we got to the door, I told him to show me the "no gun" sign and there was not one. Apparently, there was a single sign at a single entrance which I still have not ever seen to this day. But I just swapped out holsters and brought my pistol right back into he mall with me. That was the first thing I thought about when I heard about the mall shooting. It was actually the first thing my wife and I talked about considering the whole situation. I'm glad that the shooter was able to be stopped so quickly, but I was even more glad that our state's Constitutional Carry Bill had gone into effect 17 days prior. Elisjsha Dicken was carrying his pistol because of the CC bill. I've had a lifetime LTCH permit for several years and I ALWAYS have a pistol on me regardless of where I am. That includes locations with "gun free zone" signage except for the airport (which I rarely ever visit), courthouses (same) and the Riley Children's hospital (where I have to take my youngest son about 2-3 times each year.) I always encourage other people to carry a gun on them all the time, regardless of signage. Unless the location has metal detectors and police present, I will ALWAYS have a pistol on me for this exact reason. When this shooting happened, I was surprised that it was in a location that I was so intimately familiar with. But that showed me just how important it is to always have a gun.
@@PaulHarrell from memory from working there for a long while its well over 40ft. The food court is pretty big at that mall. From measuring on google maps, the max distance from the restroom is over 140ft which is 46.6 yards. Cool video! I have many friends who still work in that mall and own businesses in there and I'm thankful for people like the HERO who saves so many lives
Being mistaken for the shooter is worry number 1. Others may not take the time to assess the situation and you may not be the only one with a concealed weapon. Or there may be some overly eager cop trying not to be uvalde police.
There was a guy who shot and killed a cop killer then some idiot cop showed up and shot him dead. It sits in the back of your head on whether to engage or not. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Worst being that you may die by the threat or as you put it 'an overly eager cop'.
This is going to happen at some point. Bad guy with a gun stats shooting in a public place .. supposed good guy(s)with a gun respond. Police arrive on a chaotic scene and see multiple non-uniformed shooters. And they are supposed to figure out who’s who? Good luck with that.
@@RequiemJr said " then some idiot cop showed up " Sounds like you are the guy at 17:20 onward. Apparently you don't know the specific circumstances, you were not there and had info only after the dust settled. Kind of like the news / rioters chanting " police shot an unarmed __ man " where it turns out he was armed and shooting then ditched the gun then found to be unarmed only after the dust settled.
Sounds like a fast reholster is a must soo incorporate training to down the attacker and holster ur firearm also find cover dont just stand there like an idiot
A really good way to tell how intelligent and observant someone really is can be how they speak. If someone hardly speaks in absolutes, acknowledges all sides of an argument, and picks their opinions based off the unbiased facts they are automatically more intelligent and credible than most people. That’s why I like to listen to this guy. He just flexes his mental maturity on the rest of RUclips
@@19derrick77 now that we’ve got your comment from precisely 11 minutes ago, we’ll compare it to later comments and see how their overall performance compares to each other.
This kid is a real hero , been going to that mall for a long time . The simple fact he did what he did so fast was incredible especially considering all of the distractions at that food court . I hope he gets through this traumatic time as well as he can . I'll be praying for him often
It is a REQUIREMENT that someone MUST die (or get injured) before the "Good Guy With A Gun" solution becomes effective... We typically don't shoot (bad) people who AREN'T in the process of killing someone.
Same! I’ve been eating at that food court for 40+ years. The only reason I was not there at that exact moment was that I was at a family birthday party. I had planned to go and would have probably been eating breadsticks when it all happened. God bless the young man for his actions. I understand he’s really affected by the trauma. The families who lost people they love are on my mind also. These horrible incidents are not explainable in any way. Such heartaches.
@@Allenmar73 It is. I eat there all the time. I just don’t see some guy standing there and eating 10 bullets. But then I’m not inclined to believe ANYTHING the media says. They say Biden won the election...
I think it's a vicious indictment of our modern media that I've barely even heard of this incident, because the shooter was stopped so quickly by a legally armed bystander.
That’s what they want. They want us to believe that no matter what, a citizen with a firearm won’t stop a bad guy with one. It really is disgusting the agenda put forth by the media and many politicians.
Never fails, as soon as I hear Paul start talking all fast to explain simple stuff, I catch myself smiling lol hes def one of the greatest gifts that youtube or the internet in general has ever given us.
I'd bet that when he was working on public speaking, slowing down was one of his bigger hurdles. You can definitely tell when his brain hits the gas while he's talking at a regular pace. But he never goes so fast you can't understand him, not like those Rx ads on radio internet teevee where they blur through the "side effects" list of 237 things.
When I heard that the civilian was on point with his shot placement my thought was some people are just clutch under pressure. We talk about sports professionals being clutch or crumbling under pressure, that guy that stopped the shooting is clutch. Well trained, well practiced, and rose to the occasion. Not all heroes wear capes.
I've seen guys who were aces on the firing range crumble under live enemy fire. You never know what you're going to do until you do it, and then it's too late.
@@Falconlibrary this is why doing milsim or even paintball comes in handy. being competitive helps. you learn to etch the simple phrase into your brain: "I'm not losing."
Marksmanship and tactics can be learned by most. The ability to perform when all around you is chaos is what elevates people like Mr Harrell and Mr. Dicken to warrior level.
@@RustyorBroken " Do you have Miss Piggy ? " " He broke my watch. " There is a vid where someone returned to the now abandoned mall and drove through it in the correct car.
my biggest fear being a former infantry marine whos been to iraq, my biggest fear being an every day conceal carrier is being mistaken for the bad guy by another good guy with a gun and getting shot up by a friendly when im trying to stop the guy. so many people out there who have ZERO training will hear gun shots and then pull their gun out and light the first guy up they see with a gun
This exact sort of thing happened to my bosses wife’s son in Sacramento. He rushed in with his conceal carry, had the shooter down at gun point and the cops rushed in, seen a gun drawn and shot him like 9 times. Died instantly. They never gave him a chance to drop his gun, they never asked just shot first and asked questions later. It was really sad because he was a good dude and didn’t deserve that. He was killed for trying to be a good guy
Blue on Blue shootings have been a problem within the police world for decades. Uniformed patrol shows up, sees some guy pointing a gun at another person and gun holder gets killed. Nothing new unfortunately and it still keeps happening mostly around larger urban areas where all the cops don't know each other. Our own current cops don't even know each other, much less a DEA or state narc or like me...some retired silver haired old guy they've never seen. In Mayberry RFD that's not as big a problem. KCPD MO even did a study on ways to curb Blue on Blue. Badge on neckchain was #1 being held up showing everyone around. Putting your gun away unless absolutely needed goes a long way to stay out of the morgue. One thing I learned fairly quickly.....the worst possible thing will happen at the least convenient time in the worst possible location. And that's how Sxxx goes down in the real world. Anyone who's been in real life/death situations knows this.
Absolutely! I know my viewpoint is in the minority, especially here, but I believe one should have some serious training before exercising one's second amendment right.
28:00 i had to correct a news paper once. They reported about me being attacked and that i got in my car, trying to get away from my attackers. That was not true. My attackers followed me in their car. The newspaper told me that their article is correct, because they basically copied what the police report was saying. After i advised them to read the police report again, they changed the article. The article with the wrong information had been online for several days by then.
I live 30 minutes from that mall, I've been there hundreds of times since I was little, and have eaten in that same food court! Hell, I've been to that mall 3 times this year actually! To think something like this could happen in Indiana is just scary. It's weird seeing a town I practically grew up in thrown into the spotlight of national attention..it's just little old Greenwood. Thank the lord Elisjsha was there, and was able to stop him. He's a hero.
This kid didn't ask for this and he'll never be the same. But he was there and took action, saving countless lives by doing so. This young man is a hero and deserves the highest praise possible!
I remember that video, it was actually the bad guys girlfriend whom was trailing behind a little ways and the good guy just happened to be right between the two, and without realizing it, the bad guys girlfriend seen him draw his gun and turn a corner following and it cost him his life. Glad you brought this particular incident up. Situational awareness is paramount, even under (especially under) high stress and attack
That was at the Walmart in Nevada. Sad story. The gentleman with the CCW was not aware of the male shooter's accomplice, i.e the trailing female. The CCW got in between their paths and was poised to shoot the male shooter, but the trailing female was there. The CCW had tunnel vision on the male shooter, to the exclusion of everything else. John at Active Self Protection, in his commentary on this specific video, said at the end of the day, make sure you are spiritually fit. Depending on the outcome of your offensive actions, this may be the end for you.
I am a retired police officer , you hit it on point. I try telling people about every point you made if engaging a potential shooter. Great video, not sure I’ve seen many like it.
Congrats on 1 million Paul! I will keep praying for you and your loved ones. In my Conceal Carry class we also watched that walmart video as a part of instruction and have always thought about how important it is to take the time to analyze the situation and be aware of my surroundings
Wow, I never imagined it could be that complicated. That was a very thorough and well thought out presentation Paul. Thank you for your service to the community. And as for me as a shooter, having some sort of rest would be very beneficial for long shots. I know that because of practice.
When I heard the reports of the use of a pillar for stabilization, it made sense that the back of the support hand and wrist would be in contact with the pillar because that's the way I've done it in training.
I this was a very informative video but it's really not as complicated as he makes it if you have basic common sense, even less if you have some sort of training. As far as shooting at distance goes, I hope to never be in a situation where I need to use a long range (or any range) shot(s) at someone again but I believe a practicing at all ranges and as many scenarios as possible. If you can put 3 or more in a 6 inch circle at any distance over 40 yards and at any speed that you will be ok if you have a cool head. Contrary to what's in the video unless they're on pcp or bath salts, a head or organs don't and will never know that you can shoot a 6 inch 5 shot group in 45 seconds at 50 yards, or 2 inch 15 shot group at point blank in 10 seconds, they just know if they're in one piece or not. "A bullet changes a lot in your head, even if it hits you in the ass" - Al Capone
I can. Once you go down the Concealed Carry Rabbit hole it can make you consider not carrying. There is an amazing wall of shit coming our way if we EVER have to use our firearm. Its not fair. I wish there was a balance.
I live in New York City and in 2003 we had a city councilman who was shot to death by a gunman and that gunman was almost immediately killed by a police officer who fired six shots at him from a distance similar to this situation.
@@mortem-tyrannis 90% likely correct one way or another. Tyrannical politicians know the consequences for their actions, that’s why they like gun control.
Thank You Sir for Your examination of this shooting. I used to live in Greenwood, IN. I would drop my two kids at that Mall to buy school clothes or spend birthday money. I’m glad Eli was there and acted to the betterment of His Community.
I don't think I have ever seen or heard a better interpretation of what the REALITY of a mass shooting and it's consequences are if one involves themselves. No class I have ever been a student of has given such a detailed description of what the "good guy" can and should expect in such a frightening confrontation. Excellent piece Paul!
Paul, the tail end of this You Tube (the nonshooting part) is for me (65-year-old former Combat Marine, Dad of two very safe firearms owners shooter-children, and possessor of my FFL) is maybe your best work. So many non-military folks "think" they are going to be the "hero" when in fact they could end up being the assassin. I look forward to more of you doing this type of thing. Your long ago subscribers know you had to make a very difficult decision a long time ago. You made the right decision, but others may not have. The end of this YT addresses that as few or no others do on YT. I salute you for this. John, from Fallbrook, CA.
What I like about this incident is the armed citizen is NOT former military or law enforcement, just an everyday citizen who exercised his constitutional right and did the right thing, you don’t have to be an Uber double secret operator to display courage and proficient marksmanship
@Ben Kanobe thing I like a lot about Paul in contrast to others is he doesn’t make us ordinary citizens/none military people out to feel like we’re lowly and less than. Elisjsha Dicken. The hero of today’s topic- no police/military training or combat experience. Jack Wilson Texas church hero- police training yes, no military or combat experience. I forgot the names of a few other ordinary citizens who saved the day in recent history but the list of good guys with a gun engaging and stoping shootings and or other altercations is long, and so far few of these Good Samaritans have been ex military or persons with combat experience in contrast to those who don’t and are just ordinary folks. Obviously the math works out that way because there are WAY more ordinary citizens than there are police, military and ex military. Point is you no more need combat experience to stop a bad guy with a gun than you need to be a race car driver to operate a vehicle at highway speeds without incident. I get your point but, Combat experience/military training does not necessarily equal a better shooter or a cooler headed, wiser or more capable man.. it can certainly help! But not always.
The level of difficulty in this situation; firing 10 rounds (8 of them finding their mark) within 15 seconds at 40 yards with a 9 mm handgun, under stress, the loud report of an AR-15 inside a building, people being murdered, dozens of people screaming and running,.. is extraordinary. God was truly with this young man and made his aim accurate enough to stop the evil that day.
Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. just sayin'
Some people are good with guns, most are not. This young man is good. He was there, and with presence of mind, did everything as good as a trained Police. His immediate action saved lives.Thank you for your actions. By the time LE got there, it was all over. How do suspicious young men get so much firearms & ammunition without questions concerning mass shooters.?
I really appreciate that Paul takes the time to explain the reality of these situations. People carry firearms for different reasons. I have lots of young kids. It's rare that I go anywhere in public without my wife, a baby, and several other young children in tow. I carry a firearm to protect my family, and to protect myself so that my children can grow up with the love and support of their father. I hate to say it, but depending on your circumstances you have to ask yourself whether or not it's worth it to potentially die for random strangers when you could have just gotten out of dodge. The idea of dying to try and help other people doesn't really bother me, but the thought of my wife and kids struggling without me so I could be a forgotten footnote in a never ending string of mass shooting fatalities really tears me up. Conversely, you have to ask yourself if you can live with knowing you may have been able to do more and chose not to. I think the one thing that is really clear and many people gloss over is that whatever you do, if you find yourself in one of these events it is really going to mess up your life big time.
I think I'd say "change" rather than "mess up," but given today's social and political climate, for the time being, "mess up" may be more appropriate. However, the Greenwood Mall incident shows that sometimes "change" is more appropriate than "mess up." Mr Dicken's response was basically approved by local LE. The only "messing up" of his life Mr Dicken may experiece would be (1) trolls on social media -- BFD, man... who cares? And (2) his conscience, regarding taking another's life. But his conscience should rest easy as the thing he did was appropriate to the situation.
A very thoughtful, concise and detailed summary of things to consider when faced with such events. The occasional dry humor (“You PROBABLY won't find a truck parked in the Food Court”) definitely helps deliver the serious information in a package that is more easy to swallow.
As he was saying that, I was thinking to myself, "the Hollywood version will have Mr Dicken come hauling ass toward the Mall in his pickup, bash through the glass entry doors, drive up the escalator, come to a fishtail stop, and out jumps (male action star of the moment) to do a John Wick on the little AR wielding waif." So Hollywood would have the truck in the Mall... but nobody in reality would.
Your 5 questions for engagement of a mass shooter were extremely well thought out and invaluable. Yes, I also carry a small 380 in a pocket holster; however, l have added a green laser because of my limited aiming abilities at distance, plus it offers targeting while behind cover if I find myself in such a situation. Nothing is simple nowadays with concealed carry!
You're the first person i've seen duplicate this without running red dots... of course their shots all hit with tricked out pistols. 40 yards is a hell of a shot with any stock pistol, especially under stress
I train with irons on my pistol, because irons are what ill be using. Train how you fight. Im not going into a surpise 2 way range with the best kit (not that i even have anything tricked out like that, except my AR, which does have a reflex sight), so why would i practice defensive shooting with a tricked out set up?
A dot doesn't automatically make you more accurate. There's a training period required. Same as with iron sights. However, once mastered, RDS is far faster between targets, and more accurate at the distances where your eyes would struggle with 2 focal planes while using irons. The older you are (do you have to use readers?), the more difficult that 2 focal plane resolution gets. From that perspective, RDS isn't "tricked out". But at the same time, I do greatly respect people who have great proficiency with iron sights. They take longer to master and they are difficult for older eyes. Good iron sights users should appreciate good RDS shooters -- they both worked at their sight picture and presentation proficiency; they both worked on reacquisition in multiple shot strings. The RDS shooter isn't "cheating".
under stress and a moving target, maybe a return firing target... perhaps he advanced on the target as he was shooting or his first shot got him down to the ground and then he pumped more rounds into him. The killer/murderer was retreating wounded toward the restroom , so couple shots to knock him down , then advance and finish the job.
From what I read, Eli Dicken fired 10 shots with 8 hits, starting at 40 yards. We don't know what gun he had, but he obviously was a fine pistol shot with that firearm, and had a very cool head. I can only hope that another in such a situation would be that accurate and willing to take the risk. Evidently he made sure his girl friend was safe before engaging the perpetrator.... quite a character.
Profoundly insightful and accurate. My experience is most of the time when you stick your nose into something and try to do the right thing everybody and their brother will say you were wrong and attack you for it no matter how right you are. Think twice, actually three times, before doing it. It will most likely bite you in the ass.
I know for a fact that I can't hit crap with a pistol at 40 yards. Rifle yes. Pistol no. The biggest fear would be hitting an innocent bystander, or engaging the wrong person. I'd be pissing my pants as I moved forward. And the whole time I'd know that someone else may die because I didn't act quick enough. The pucker factor would be huge. The adrenaline flow would have me shaking. I'd be hoping like hell that everything would be ok. This brings me to my last part. Could I take that other person's life? That is something I've never done before. I think people in our community like to think they'd be John Wick. The reality is that one would be forever changed. I think I could do it, but lord I'd be hoping I got it right.
Excellent analysis Paul! Especially the analysis of whether one SHOULD intervene, based on your capabilities, and particularly the chance of being shot by another citizen that thinks YOU are the mass shooter. This video should be mandatory viewing in all firearms safety classes.
BTW Paul, I'm from Indy and have been to that mall more times than I can count. Not sure where the 40 yards came from, but around here they have said it was a 30 yd shot. The gunman was standing in the entrance of the restrooms, the Armed Citizen was directly across at a cookie shop. I may take my range finder down there and get a reading. IT also has been reported that he stood behind a vertical column, and used it as a rest. Wish I could confirm the vertical post report, but so far I can't find a reliable source.
Please do. Just take readings from the most likely columns in the food court and repost the results here. There can't be that many columns in that food area, 4-6 maybe? Thanks, in advance. On another note. The 15 seconds everyone has been talking about. STARTS when the shooter opens fire and ENDS when he goes down. That's the account from Greenwood Police Chief after viewing the malls surveillance video. “The surveillance video shows shooter exit the restroom at 5:56:48 p.m., he was neutralized by Dicken at 5:57:03 p.m.” So, how many seconds does it take to get up from a chair, run aprox.10 yards to a support column, aim and engage a target? 5, 6, 7 seconds? Now the timeline just got shortened to around 10 seconds for young Mr. Dicken to return fire. Even more amazing!!
My local mall been going there since it was open air . It's more than 40 feet, it's between 30-40 yards from blondies to the bathrooms entrance .it all depends on where each were standing . So 40 yards is a decent approximation. The guy made great shots , the pillars are big and it's full of tables, chairs , planters and garbage cans in between .add in the chaos of people and being fired at . It was an amazing string of shots , not easy . Oh and I never followed that stupid policy ...
@@karllambert2350 He was apparently moving closer as he was shooting so even if it started at 40 yards many of the shots would have come at much closer range. It would also be very interesting to see where the actual hits were. Right now we have no good information whatsoever. Looking forward to the police report.
A wise man once told me: When you shoot in a situation such as this, everything is your backstop. Point being, that bullet, once loosed, won't care if it hits your bad guy, the wall behind him, or a kid running away in terror. It was an admonition not only to become proficient with one's carry choice, but also to be aware of one's surroundings.
That's why it's one of the 4 primary safety rules. Know your target -- what's between you & it, what's beyond it, what's adjacent to it. Can't call it back once you've let it fly.
@@Allenmar73 I've never researched it, Al, but from the various news stories I've read, it does hint in that direction. Generally I'd expect juries to give more deference to LE than to a citizen, but things are very unpredictable these days.
Thank you for making the time to sit down and talk with us… Your 5 points hit home hard.. so incredibly accurate… every point I was taking a long hard look inside at myself. That young man made a lot of incredibly brave and unbelievably hard Decisions in a rapid amount of time. I’m thankful for him. 🇺🇸
I feel so braindead sometimes when people like Paul point out certain things and my brain instantly goes "Oh hey yeah, that makes a lot of sense and is such a simple point". Appreciate your videos Paul, they help keep me in reality in these subject matters, pointing out the possible after effects of such scenarios even if you have good intent but also informing us that with the proper training at the very least you can be prepared to save your own life and possibly that of others around you which is invaluable in my opinion. Gonna have to give the movie Run, hide, fight a watch now but I think just those 3 words give enough information in itself on how to realisticly deal with a possible violent / life threatening situation and I always tell my loved ones; always try to run first before anything else because that's your best option and it's not being cowardly but preserving your own life. Well done Paul, well done.
Sweet truck! "Accuracy always trumps speed." Thank you for being humble, but you're an amazing marksman and your videos have been very informative and helpful to many. Keep up the solid work! Thank you.
Paul - Thank you for an excellent, thought proving and timely video / analysis. May I respectfully suggest that a #6 needs to be added; specifically “can you live with yourself, if you realistically might have had the ability to preclude innocent death(s) / gave injury(ies), and you failed to do so?” Okay, we’re both military retirees, and our ethos may (?) differ somewhat from America’s mainstream culture. However, I believe in assessing all the VITAL (#1 through #5 apply) concerns you’ve delineated, one MUST also evaluate one’s ability to live the remainder of his or her life feeling “if only I hadn’t run away, others might have survived.”
I can live with bailing out. Here in NY, if I act to save others the state will crucify me and my family will suffer. My obligation is to my own people. Few victems really had no choice. Most simply chose victemhood
That question is the most important one to me, honestly. I couldn't imagine looking myself in the eye knowing I let people die because I was afraid of court costs. But cowards always find some nonsense to justify their cowardice. And cowards sure do have to loudly justify their cowardice over and over don't they?
I'm sure everyone and their brother who've heard this news story have engaged in the "Greenwood" drill in one way or another to try their hand. Yes, I did too with very favorable results on my back yard range with the target not able to potentially shoot back at me and nobody remotely close to the target I was shooting at... I've shot in my share of competitions and can say that the adrenaline is definitely up when compared to shooting on the home range. I can't imagine the adrenaline that had to be flowing when the brave young man engaged that mass shooter... Without knowing for sure I've got to think he's an experienced competitor... Either that or just a natural with maintaining control under stress. I've seen people like that too. Thanks Paul for sharing all the other considerations that come into play when choosing whether or not to engage. This channel has become my sanity check.
Most people go off of the FBI¹s statistics which state the vast majority of gun fights happen within 7 yards/21 ft. In most cases it's extremely difficult to even determine if someone is a threat to you 40 yards away. I am guilty of the same thing thinking that anything would happen in a much closer distance but at the same time seeing something like this even though it has a very miniscule chance of ever happening to me is a bit sobering in that I should actually train farther with my firearm just in case. To be completely honest I don't go to malls very often and I never even considered that a food court was 40 to 50 yards across. It always seems smaller than that
@@andrewcarlson2178 The FBI stat is a bit misleading but not on purpose. That short range is a product of police interaction/approaching perps when SHTF, like attempting to handcuff when the Kansas wind blows south very suddenly.
@@andrewcarlson2178 Something like a J frame Smith & Wesson revolver in .38 caliber with crude non-adjustable sights is probably not going to be up to a 40 yard engagement task in most hands but perfectly fine for the aforementioned 7 yard engagement. I think that being properly prepared for engagement distances out to 40 yards would have to radically raise the bar in firearm selection in addition to additional training.
@@JaleelJohanson62 Exactly! A scandium frame 357 s&w is very easy to carry but an XDs 3.3 45 has a better sight radius for mid distances, while a full size semi auto is even easier. A 460 magnum revolver is great for shooting 100+ yards and hitting roughly 12" size targets, but I don't hit them every time and of course that isn't a carry gun. A snub nose is better than a larger gun left at home and a feather weight requires even more skill to deal with recoil (38+p, as 357 is just about pointless). It was interesting he compared free standing vs. using a rest. I almost always shoot free standing since that is how all of the competitions are done that I have participated in and after tons of practice it seems easier and certainly faster to not use support for pistols. Using a rest adds in more variables and it doesn't always improve accuracy and the same is true for when I use rifles for up to 200 yards on steel plates (speed or silhouette shooting vs. bullseye/accuracy competitions).
Kind of related, but just to demonstrate how adrenaline can boost performance: I (and a bunch of people) was getting chased by a car through the basketball courts (on foot) and as soon as the car was close to hit me I jumped up and reached for the rim 2handed. I’m 5’10 and on my good days I could hang one handed, on my bad days I could smack the rim. That day, when I was in fear for my life, my body jumped those extra 2-3 inches all on its own. I’ve never done it again. Adrenaline is one heck of a drug.
As hard as most of us train with the sole purpose of getting better I dont think any of us , except for experienced military type folks , have ever had that rush of extreme stress. All of those points you made about decisions you have to make "right then" have to be made under a tremendous amount of stress that we arent used to. We all hope to be able to help but you just dont know until you are put in the position. Again , GREAT video.
Paul made the point in another video that you really can simulate that kind of duress by taking personal risks in life and get[ting] out of your comfort zone. For example: most people are afraid of speaking in public, so look for opportunities to practice it. You'll get an adrenaline rush and maybe even panic at first. By working through such situations when your life isn't at stake, you'll gain valuable experience for when it is.
"any of us" nah, it's "most all of us" or "very few of us". I've shot more people than some cops have drawn their weapon. Did what I didn't want to do and don't want to do ever again. He's dead on about you have to make a decision fast. For me time slows and I'm not fast enough. I don't know if this is for everyone, once I draw or point a rifle it is GO, I'm looking for the NO GO. Sometimes it never comes. If you're looking for additional guidance I cannot express how *_OUTSTANDING_* "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob's book is. After reading that and thinking on it, I decided on constant carry. I get up, pants, pistol, boots then coffee. I've got my pistol on now, no back up though (I'm at home). You can stop potential shit without drawing, don't even have to go for the side arm. Just your vigilance can get noticed and people will make u-turns or calm down. Another is "That Every Man Be Armed: The Evolution of a Constitutional Right" by Stephen P. Halbrook. When I was an instructor, told them over the phone I'm not going to teach you unless you've read "In The Gravest Extreme", bring the book with you so I can see. It was just basic Personal Protection with a pistol inside and outside the home. Sorry for the wall of text.
@@rickh9396 Lots of ways to induce stress. If you can manage it, have a buddy yell at you and give you instructions like a DI. Make you cease fire, jumping jacks, fire 3 shots, now three push ups, while you're in the rain, throw ice water on your neck... 🤣You better do what he says and hit your target. Compete with your wife, that's stress inducing; my wife shoots so damn slow, still she hits. Tighter groups mostly, and I've already reloaded the mag I just shot 😂She's so proud of herself, grrr.... my only retort is "But did I hit?" she can't argue that, yea that's stressful 😱
In the case of Greenwood Mall, our hero didn't have time to stress, it was all over in 15 seconds from stimulus. Most of us make much better decisions early before adrenaline and stress have time to build up. Usually your first, natural instinct decision is your best one.
Thank you for your insights and information on this topic. I live less than 3 miles from the Greenwood Mall, and drove past there just before the shooting. I really do appreciate your balanced and well-thought-out approach to this sort of event.
Phenomenal commentary/analysis regarding the myriad decisions one must make during a mass shooting (i.e., the fog of war). 👏👏 And great shooting at 40 yds, Paul! 👍🏼
Thanks for your insight. We frequent that mall often, we live a couple of counties south of there and couldn't believe it happened there. It goes to show us, to be vigilant and aware of our surroundings at all times, especially in these troubling times. Again, thank you.
As someone who carries and shoots a 380 Bodyguard regularly, I judge Paul's ability to shoot that gun accurately at 20 yards to be nothing short of amazing.
As was his shooting with the stubby barreled S&W revolver. hrfunk did a review recently of the 380 Bodyguard and limited his demo to 7 yds, a more reasonable cone of accuracy for the pistol. Mr Harrell is showing what a very proficient shooter can do with that little pistol. It's really small, you're lucky if you get more than 2 fingers on the grip. People who've never shot those tiny pistols may not know what a disadvantage it is to have fewer than all 4 fingers to secure the pistol.
Like Paul said, it's convenient, so that's why mine is on me more than any other pistol I own, but I don't think I would attempt a 20+ yard shot with it in a real-world situation, unless that was the only option. I can do pretty much whatever I want with it out to 10 yards, but I don't practice nearly enough to be confident beyond that.
@@seanoneil277 I shoot an LCP and 642 rather regularly , the 642 more due to not losing brass in the grass. At 100’ I typically hit a steel rather small half silhouette 80-90% of the time. It’s really not all that hard but you do have to slow down and concentrate.
@@drizler Under ideal conditions with plenty of time, sure. And we all caught that 2 foot brown trout on that 10 foot wide feeder stream with a 3 wt 7 ft rod and a #22 midge. 80-90% of the time at least. But seriously, one can train to be effective with a tiny pistol. Just may take a long, long time in training.
In a world of increasingly polarised opinions, this is a very carefully considered and informative presentation. Evaluating the situation before taking action, and then taking responsibility for that action, is a really powerful message that applies to all walks of life, not just shooting.
I've been to that Greenwood mall before, it's only about 40 miles from me and even though they say no firearms allowed, they have a store in there that sells them even though it's a sporting goods store. I think the guy did the right thing and I would have too if I had been there at the same time. Great video Paul
Dicks is outside the main mall and you have to go outside and then enter the main mall . Don's guns used to have a store in the mall many many many years ago until he moved across the street and then built what currently is the GPD training facility .. He gave it to them after a couple of his employees got killed in a robbery .
Still not breaking any law to bring a firearm in that mall. Its only illegal to stay if you are asked to leave for having a firearm and then that would be tresspassing.
Disappointed to see any of your videos removed or deemed violations. Going back and watching your old presentations is useful. Good luck with the next videos
Well that sucks, I love going back and watching some of Paul's vids when I am trying to get certain lessons really stuck in my head to practice.. also for "the rambling that is boring for some people, so skip ahead to 11 minutes and 20 seconds to get to the good part ".. LoL
I couldn't help but chuckle when you described a very bad scenario at 22:46 (only because you closed with "that could get stupid really fast"); however, that is something I've thought of when going through training drills. Reminds me of the tragic story of John Hurley.
From one veteran to another Paul, I'd just like to address a big thing that can fall under your 5th point that we may not think about compared to civilians specifically. And that is (for civilians), can you actually stop the threat, period. I respect you, and this community a lot more than some other "guntuber" style channels. So I really want people to think about this along with your points. Military personnel, regardless of MOS/rate, rank, age, branch, etc. are taught the fundamentals of action. Maybe not to "kill" like Hollywood has portrayed, but to always do something during times of stress. And to get familiar and comfortable enough to do something while under such tremendous stress and little time to think. Of course service members panic, and they can have the best instructors, the best training, and the best gear. And it still happens. Some of us have that ability to rely on instinct, whether it's for self preservation, or the need to help and protect. And simply put, some just don't have that ability. I was a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy. My "action" is to treat under fire. Rule 1 of combat medicine is secure the threats before administering aid. Simplified, make the enemy unable to shoot you so you can do first aid, by any means necessary. With what I carry, a taurus public defender, and for how often I get to go to the range because I do not have the luxury of financial stability, I cannot shoot as effectively as I would like to for a Greenwood style situation. Which means, I would need to get closer to confidently neutralize the threats and begin first aid to injured civilians. That's hard for me to admit, because that basically means unless the target is closer, I should be running for the exit or hard cover. But I have to admit it because I'm not just shooting a threat. I'm keeping myself alive so I can help keep others alive when the shooter isn't shooting. Civilians, you, commenters and viewers, are not trained to do what I was. Or what Paul was trained for. So, forget ego, step away from the monitor, and sit alone with yourself, and seriously ask yourself, if you can stop the threat.
My eldest son was first a Hospital Corpsman, with the mud Marines, in the sandy cesspool. After he ETSd he got tired of his two paratrooper brothers calling him a leg, so he joined the Army where he was an Intel type, back in the sand, assembling snatch/kill target packages, and then a recon team NCO with the secondary duties of Combat Medic. Under both hats, Navy and Army, he was in the "very unhappy" zone, doing the real thing. Inbetween times, and after ETSing the Army, he had periods of working for several Police and Sheriff's agencies. He still carries an abbreviated medic backpack everywhere he goes. Just as I, a retired police/military firearms/tactics trainer and SWAT goon, look at my environment through the lens of, "OK, who in this scenario needs killing or rescuing?", due to his Law Enforcement experience, he looks at it the same way, but also as "OK, who in this scenario needs a tourniquet?" That "Extreme Oh Shiite Day" mindset never leaves you. Our "never served" shooting buddies chuckle at the "what if" range scenarios we invent, until we explain the concepts to them. "We mock what we don't understand"...
Greenwood Park Mall is 20 minutes from my home. We go there at the beginning of every school year to get clothes for my daughter's. Very tragic how this kind of thing happens and how often it's been happens. Thank you very much for the useful information Mr Harrell. Love the content and I was really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this matter.
You made some very important points. First I have been in an office shooting (fun fact, it was in the same city the greenwood hero lives in, and was across the street from where he was going to school). During my work place shooting, a coworker killed my boss 10 ft away in a room I was next to. When I heard the first 3 shots my first thoughts were a mix of “is this a drill?”, “am I really in an office shooting?”, “were the shots on the first floor or second floor?”. While I was wondering these questions, I heard a fourth shot and then my thoughts were “oh my god I’m in a mass shooting and he’s executing people”. At that point a coworker yelled “get out of here” and we all ran to the back stairs and out of the building. My point being that you can be the biggest sheep dog around, but mass shooting and office shootings are chaos, and unless you train over and over for them, you will probably panic and freeze up. Since then I bought my first gun, and trained a lot with it, so I’m more comfortable with the sound of gunfire, and have a different mindset. But honestly I would probably have a similar reaction in the same or similar situation. It’s good to remember that every situation is different, and it’s not Run-Hide-Fight, it’s Quickly Assess, Move to a better advantage, decided what you should do, act, or OODA. For me, in a mass shooting event, unless the gunman was right there and I could counterattack quickly and effectively, I’m probably figuring out the shortlist exit and helping others escape. I’m not going to hunt down the gunman.
Paul you are my hero I love all your content I don’t have a father or grandfather’s anymore and your sense of humor reminds me of them my grandfather was like you he won every competition he shot in and loved black powder shoots . God bless you and keep the amazing work.
I love your videos Paul, thank you so much for making one on this. I haven’t even started it yet and I just wanted to say this because of the title and well, thank you. You are as poignant and precise as ever. I hope I’m using that first word right. To quote the British, truly splendid.
Paul i just wanted to say i love you and god bless you. You have taught me so much over the years and i cant express how grateful i am to have found this channel. You helped motivate me into getting my CCL, to always carry, to be safe and safe handling.
The one thing I'm surprised you didn't bring up is the fact that the guy was able to make the shot at 40 yards but was able to do so under high stress and adrenaline spike which would make an accurate shot at close range difficult without some kind of training, I can only compare that to hunting where you have to calm yourself down before you take a shot which shooting at targets can teach you to make the shot but not to calm yourself down enough to make the shot
@@frawdulent the concept of "I need to warm up with some practice shots" is nonsense. The very first shot is your true skill and you should practice until you hit the target at 25 yds or 40 or 50 or whatever on your first shot. "Warm up" is a euphemism for lack of skill.
@@steveh5307 not everyone is a sharpshooter like you. Why are gun people so pompous about everything? We get it, you’re the greatest shooter the world has ever seen.
@@frawdulent That's not "sharpshooting". It's something anyone who moved beyond the basics should know how to do. If you've been shooting several times but can't hit a plate sized target at 25 yds on your first shot, you don't know how to shoot and need to keep practicing until you can. It's not some special skill. It's a standard skill that somehow became "special" over the years.
As a middle aged guy myself doing this over 40 years I notice and like many things he does. He's removed from the modern "tactitard' era of firearm ownership. The way he carries himself, his stance, his grip, his choice of firearms etc etc is a throwback to the way things used to be. Nowadays you have some clueless nOOb yammering on about this or that polymer striker fired 9mm (who owns anything else) with a red dot optic mounted. You pick up a 1911 .45, Beretta M9/92FS, Sig Sauer P-220, P-226/Mk25, CZ-75B, Browning Hi-Power, HK P7PSP/M8/M13, S&W 66, 686, 10, 29 etc etc you can out shoot them any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Paul is one of the few people on here that I believe is telling the truth about his experience. These other guys claim to have been doing it for years and years, however all the clues point to otherwise. People forget I was there with him, so I know. This guy or that girl may have been doing this 10 -12 years and no more. I would wager MOST have been doing it less than 10. If you go back to early videos which many have since been deleted they are using and endorsing junk like Hi-Point, Taurus, Kel-Tec.........now they are a USSOCOM Operator. Eh, it doesn't work like that.....nobody said you have to have a HK Mk23, Wilson Combat CQB etc etc. But anybody with any level of formal experience would have always been using high quality gear.
Excellent video, excellent points. So many things to think about, and to prepare for. Several friends and I have discussed the points of your video. There are no easy answers. Thank you for your videos.
The whole Greenwood Park Mall shooting has been an interesting thing to take in. I've been a lifelong resident of Greenwood, so to have this happen not five minutes from my home, to have family & friends present at the mall during the shooting, and one of the victims being a barber at the barber shop I've gone to since I was a kid has put a lot into perspective. That being said, to add some perspective to those who are not familiar as myself with the space in question, while 40 yards is not out of the question for the this area of the mall, the food court is a roughly 90ft/30yd diameter circle, there are only a few locations where Mr. Dicken would have had an opportunity to shoot a full 40+ yards. Please note, I am not trying to diminish or discredit the information being presented, just trying to provide some context. The crazy thing is, if the 40 yard shots are in fact true, he would have been more than likely facing the restroom that the shooter had exited when he started, and been straight in the line of fire. See the back center of the the attached photo. Not only that, but he would have had to shoot across the food court with plenty of stuff potentially being in the way. I have linked a picture of the rough position of one of the places that Mr. Dickens could have been standing to take the crucial shots that brought the shooting to an end. In regards to stabilization/cover, there would not have been much available for Mr. Dickens to utilize aside from a table, trash cans, or maybe one of the counter tops of one of the stalls on the outer perimeter of the food court, behind the photographer in the picture below. assets.simon.com/PropertyImages/165/greenwood-park-mall-01.jpg On a separate note, Paul, as always, your content, perspective, and wisdom are all extremely well-done and concise. I cannot applaud you enough for not just accessing/demonstrating the mechanics and the other moving parts of these kinds of events, but also taking the time to emphasize the importance of thinking things through, and how crucial that is in the moment. All while being, 100% apolitical. I see plenty of comments floating around, not necessarily on this, or many of your videos, floating around talking to the effects about how "I would have run in to stop the Sum-Bitch guns a blazing" and it has always worried me that many people do not think tactically, and I don't mean Seal Team 6 or Rambo, in those situations. I learned a very apt lesson when I was in marital arts as a kid that I have personally applied to my concealed carry. "This is not meant to be your spear, it is meant to be your shield and, hopefully, your last resort. While a shield is not an offensive weapon, you must keep it well-maintained and train with it to ensure that it will not fail you if the time comes that you need it." I know myself well and would realistically be one to move away from the action and try my best to help get others out of harms way, only resorting to drawing my conceal carry if absolutely necessary.
"Shooting fast does not help you if you miss." Try telling that to the cops. Just recently some cops fired at an armed suspect. The combined total number of rounds fired was 7 rounds. 3 cops fired seven rounds, and scored seven hits. The trouble is that only one round hit the suspect, the other six rounds hit SIX BYSTANDERS.
@@erockz8123 - But they HAVE had training. They simply have no self discipline, and are not held accountable. If a citizen missed like that and hit a bunch of innocent people he'd be prosecuted. But the cops get a pass because of their line of work. Nobody gives free passes because someone's a mechanic or an interior decorator, but if they happen to work as a police officer they get a free pass for wrongdoings (and there are a lot of wrongdoings going on with cops).
Very much enjoy the details in every video you gift us with. Your thoughtful presentations cover virtually all “what ifs” and “supposes”, if not ACTUALLY all of them! Thank you, Paul. ❤️
Thanks Paul for your very rational and informative video on this somewhat touchy and volatile topic. I think a lot of your presentations save lives and this is definitely one of them.
I'm always worried when Paul is sitting on a log speaking to us. Where I live sitting on a log in the bush is a really dangerous thing to do. Deadly snakes, deadly spiders and the most deadly DROP BEARS can strike at any time
23:04 There is an old video of Jim Cirillo talking about an incident like this with the NYPD bunch of cops from different divisions (patrol, undercover narcotics plainclothes robbery homicide) got into a shootout with each other. In regard to point 4 During the Clackamas town center shooting (happened the day before sandy hook) a concealed carrier drew his weapon on the shooter there were too many bystanders and he didn't feel confident enough to take the shot the shooter did see him however he ran into a hallway fixed the malfunction on his rifle then killed himself
Paul doing an analysis of the a situation always well thought out Most channels doing a so called drill with no thought of the situation A young man was forced into a terrible situation made a quick decision probably with adrenaline pumping and a target 🎯 that could shoot back , yes he made the right decision however I feel bad for him that he had to do it and hope he’s ok
Thank you for your very wise insight of the whole situation at Greenwood Mall. Great video. And great camera by the way. Subscribed for future presentations.
Everyone that carries needs to watch this video, especially from 16:00 on. So many things I've thought about but don't hear/see even some instructors talk about. People like to glamorize it, but defensive shooting situations are just absolutely awful in every way, and the trouble almost never ends when the shooting does.
Paul, I appreciate the thoughtful analysis. One item that has run through my head since an earlier presentation of yours in this series is what could be a 6th question to ask oneself: who is with you and are you responsible for their safety? I have young children. In my mind, I think my first instinct if I were in or near a bad situation while they are with me would be to get them the hell away from it. Run, hide, fight in that order. I'm curious as to your take on this, knowing you would not proffer advice. If I were alone and in a similar situation and in a position where I think I'm potentially capable of successful intervention, I think I would have a different calculus. I know it's easy to just type that last statement, but I wouldn't truly know unless tested and I'd prefer such a test not present itself. --John Skinner
John, In an attempt to answer your question I give this example. I have seen crashes on highways when I have my family with me. I would not stop to help for fear my family would get hit while I was stopped. Especially on interstates and bad weather roads. Me helping others is not worth their safety. So, run, hide, and when necessary fight. Protect your own first. Go home alive. Just imagine if you did not win the engagement and your family saw you get killed. If you are by yourself and prepared to do so, take the fight to the enemy and kill the bastard. Praying you never have to make those choices other than in scenarios.
@@royharrell1760 Thank you for the thoughtful response! I don't often seek validation of my thinking when it comes to values-based judgements, but there are a lot of layers to consider here. It's only recently that my mind has spent any real time contemplating such scenarios, which could be an indictment of our current culture or the media for making this topic overly salient or my lack of mental preparation for it previously not being so. Though such a situation should be rather unlikely, the stakes involved in split-second decisions are of the highest order and any decision has potentially irreversible ramifications for those involved. This helps me have confidence in my thinking and hopefully would put me in better readiness to make the right decisions, should something occur in my proximity, without succumbing to analysis paralysis.
Thank you Paul for the very thoughtful presentation. In a situation where you are thinking about stopping a threat which could also end a life, you have to be totally honest about yourself and your capabilities as Paul explained. No time for a Dirty Harry impression. It will be a life changing event when you pull the trigger and the repercussions thereof you will own. The young man in this mall scenario performed at a level I suspect few in that situation could. He was a Angel from heaven at the right place at the right time. But an oversized ego and an underweight puncher could find themselves in hell in the same situation.
i used to scoff at you for saying not to believe what police say, but recent events both nationwide and within my family have taught me to be highly skeptical towards police. i don't trust anything they say, and if i was asked to be on a jury I would have to say I place no faith in the police's ability to tell the whole truth without embellishment or down right perjury. definitely makes you think twice in engaging in citizen involved shootings.
The most respectful thing you can do for the police is to make them honor your rights. The worst thing you can do is encourage them down the path of tyranny
I'm glad that you've learned how wrong you really were. I myself have known for most of my life, due mostly to where I grew up, that cops are never to be trusted. A great number of them are literally the scum of the earth. And re serving on a jury, I'd definitely let them know that I will never believe a word that comes out of a policeman's pie-hole.
@@misterbaker9728 A counterpoint - what if you aren't confident that you can accurately hit the target without causing more unnecessary bloodshed? I think for some it is the right choice to back down, and for others it is the better choice to step up. Only the individual can make that decision though, like Paul says, "You be the Judge".
Even the police officer in the recent DFW airport shooting incident initially reacted by turning and running before stopping, turning around and confronting the shooter with his sidearm. Hard to say how you would react
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
There has been a lot of debate about whether the samaritan at greenwood engaged the criminal at forty feet or forty yards.
I went to the Greenwood park mall and measured the food court with a laser range finder.
We don't know which post the samaritan used for cover/stabilization, but depending on which post he used, it could have easily been forty yards or more. So the people claiming that there's "no way" it could be that far are speaking from complete ignorance.
Unfortunately, a computer snafu destroyed the camera chip and the video was lost.
The other question that I didn't hear asked, was can you live with yourself, knowing that you could have done something, but didn't? That can be nearly as difficult as missing the target and causing collateral damage.
Lol Paul there after the fact with a laser range finder..😂
Paul Harrell visited my childhood mall?! Truly epic.
So thats what happened to part 3
I love when the hero has more recognition than the shooter
I sincerely hope this situation gives future mass shooters pause. Now they have the real example of some dude with a Glock in his waistband beaning them from the other side of the food court.
Way it should be.
Come to think of it, I don’t recall hearing nor do I want to know the attacker’s name, or anything about him.
As it should be.
Unfortunately some people in the spotlight are trying to make him out to be a criminal because he was in the mall with a gun trying to take away the fact he saved lives
To Eli's credit, he's declined all interviews until the families dealing with the loss of loved ones have had sufficient time to mourn. As far as the incident, he did start from 40 yards and during those 15 seconds of directed fire, closed on the target while telling bystanders to get to safety. All things considered, he's a class act.
Is there a source saying he'll take interviews later? At this point he might not ever.
@@jtlegionnaire6310 I would be afraid to ever take interviews on the matter.
@@308dad8 exactly. There’s really only two reasonable routes. Complete anonymity, or complete gun rights advocate. Some may want that to spread positive awareness. He may have other life goals
@@jtlegionnaire6310 Eli Dicken will probably do one, and only one, interview about the incident one year from now and only with somebody that he trusts.
Massad Ayoob might be a good person to do the interview. He is calm and will not pepper Eli with irrelevant questions.
@@jtlegionnaire6310 I can’t remember the article but it was a statement from his lawyer
The fact that you called it a Greenwood drill and not a Dickens because you don't know if he wants to be associated with it shows how much you understand this community.
So many people that are involved in these shootings don't want the fame and glory, that's not why they do what they do.
Dicken, not Dickens.
Same here that man has enough on his plate he is a hero for sure but that guy has to be going through a lot let's not make him a meme for god's sake
@@bobbybrowntown592 Garand Thumb already has
@@stevealexander8010 Dicken’s Drill?
Still a fantastic training opportunity and I personally need to put in the range time with it.
I grew up in Greenwood. I graduated from Greenwood Community High School (so did my wife) in the 2000s. I worked in the mall for a few years. I've been in that exact spot hundreds, if not thousands, of times. Also, when that shooting took place, my niece was at the mall with her boyfriend. They weren't in the food court at the time, thank God. And, my wife works with Elisjsha's sister in Columbus Indiana right now. In 2019, my wife and I were at the mall doing a few things when a security guard approached me, telling me that firearms were prohibited from the premises. I had an OWB holster on and I knew I had an IWB holster in the car. So he escorted me out towards the entrance where our car was parked. When we got to the door, I told him to show me the "no gun" sign and there was not one. Apparently, there was a single sign at a single entrance which I still have not ever seen to this day. But I just swapped out holsters and brought my pistol right back into he mall with me. That was the first thing I thought about when I heard about the mall shooting. It was actually the first thing my wife and I talked about considering the whole situation. I'm glad that the shooter was able to be stopped so quickly, but I was even more glad that our state's Constitutional Carry Bill had gone into effect 17 days prior. Elisjsha Dicken was carrying his pistol because of the CC bill. I've had a lifetime LTCH permit for several years and I ALWAYS have a pistol on me regardless of where I am. That includes locations with "gun free zone" signage except for the airport (which I rarely ever visit), courthouses (same) and the Riley Children's hospital (where I have to take my youngest son about 2-3 times each year.) I always encourage other people to carry a gun on them all the time, regardless of signage. Unless the location has metal detectors and police present, I will ALWAYS have a pistol on me for this exact reason. When this shooting happened, I was surprised that it was in a location that I was so intimately familiar with. But that showed me just how important it is to always have a gun.
So... Here's the question: There's a debate about the size of the food court. Was it forty FEET or forty YARDS?
@@PaulHarrell from memory from working there for a long while its well over 40ft. The food court is pretty big at that mall. From measuring on google maps, the max distance from the restroom is over 140ft which is 46.6 yards.
Cool video! I have many friends who still work in that mall and own businesses in there and I'm thankful for people like the HERO who saves so many lives
You encourage everyone to get guns but that's also how some mass shooters get guns. The mass shooter steal the gun from their parents
Being mistaken for the shooter is worry number 1. Others may not take the time to assess the situation and you may not be the only one with a concealed weapon. Or there may be some overly eager cop trying not to be uvalde police.
There was a guy who shot and killed a cop killer then some idiot cop showed up and shot him dead. It sits in the back of your head on whether to engage or not. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Worst being that you may die by the threat or as you put it 'an overly eager cop'.
This is going to happen at some point. Bad guy with a gun stats shooting in a public place .. supposed good guy(s)with a gun respond. Police arrive on a chaotic scene and see multiple non-uniformed shooters. And they are supposed to figure out who’s who? Good luck with that.
@@RequiemJr said " then some idiot cop showed up "
Sounds like you are the guy at 17:20 onward.
Apparently you don't know the specific circumstances, you were not there and had info only after the dust settled. Kind of like the news / rioters chanting " police shot an unarmed __ man " where it turns out he was armed and shooting then ditched the gun then found to be unarmed only after the dust settled.
Sounds like a fast reholster is a must soo incorporate training to down the attacker and holster ur firearm also find cover dont just stand there like an idiot
I wish there was some sort of secret I'm not the shooter orange hat you could put on that everyone but the shooter knew about
A really good way to tell how intelligent and observant someone really is can be how they speak. If someone hardly speaks in absolutes, acknowledges all sides of an argument, and picks their opinions based off the unbiased facts they are automatically more intelligent and credible than most people. That’s why I like to listen to this guy. He just flexes his mental maturity on the rest of RUclips
Very well said. Not the best, but well… LOL
@@19derrick77 now that we’ve got your comment from precisely 11 minutes ago, we’ll compare it to later comments and see how their overall performance compares to each other.
@@sillygily4435 I’m going to read your comment at 7 yards, and we’ll see how I do.
@@RicardoSanchez-es5wl Now let's go see how we did!
@@RicardoSanchez-es5wl lmao🤣
This kid is a real hero , been going to that mall for a long time . The simple fact he did what he did so fast was incredible especially considering all of the distractions at that food court .
I hope he gets through this traumatic time as well as he can . I'll be praying for him often
40 yards away from the restrooms? Where was he? The cookie store?
"Incredible" might be the right word.
It is a REQUIREMENT that someone MUST die (or get injured) before the "Good Guy With A Gun" solution becomes effective... We typically don't shoot (bad) people who AREN'T in the process of killing someone.
Same! I’ve been eating at that food court for 40+ years. The only reason I was not there at that exact moment was that I was at a family birthday party. I had planned to go and would have probably been eating breadsticks when it all happened. God bless the young man for his actions. I understand he’s really affected by the trauma. The families who lost people they love are on my mind also. These horrible incidents are not explainable in any way. Such heartaches.
@@Allenmar73
It is. I eat there all the time. I just don’t see some guy standing there and eating 10 bullets. But then I’m not inclined to believe ANYTHING the media says.
They say Biden won the election...
Total badass I couldn’t be more proud that a decent man was there. He’s a hero.
I think it's a vicious indictment of our modern media that I've barely even heard of this incident, because the shooter was stopped so quickly by a legally armed bystander.
In a gun free zone too right?
That’s what they want. They want us to believe that no matter what, a citizen with a firearm won’t stop a bad guy with one. It really is disgusting the agenda put forth by the media and many politicians.
Never fails, as soon as I hear Paul start talking all fast to explain simple stuff, I catch myself smiling lol hes def one of the greatest gifts that youtube or the internet in general has ever given us.
He's a cross between Indiana Jones and the "Inconceivable!" guy from the Princess Bride lol
@@Fly_Fishing_Fool ha!! Excellent 👍
I'd bet that when he was working on public speaking, slowing down was one of his bigger hurdles. You can definitely tell when his brain hits the gas while he's talking at a regular pace. But he never goes so fast you can't understand him, not like those Rx ads on radio internet teevee where they blur through the "side effects" list of 237 things.
100% This man's a national treasure
no
When I heard that the civilian was on point with his shot placement my thought was some people are just clutch under pressure. We talk about sports professionals being clutch or crumbling under pressure, that guy that stopped the shooting is clutch. Well trained, well practiced, and rose to the occasion. Not all heroes wear capes.
I've seen guys who were aces on the firing range crumble under live enemy fire. You never know what you're going to do until you do it, and then it's too late.
@@Falconlibrary this is why doing milsim or even paintball comes in handy. being competitive helps. you learn to etch the simple phrase into your brain: "I'm not losing."
Marksmanship and tactics can be learned by most. The ability to perform when all around you is chaos is what elevates people like Mr Harrell and Mr. Dicken to warrior level.
also, zero heroes get paid in tax dollars - those people are called thieves.
@@donalddicorcia2433 Hence the old saying, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."
I love when Paul says "you PROBABLY wouldn't have your pickup at the food court". He knows you should never say never!
I mean, sometimes local dealerships display cars in the middle of malls, sometimes near the food court. At any rate, it's not "YOUR" truck...
Blues Brothers
The way people drive in the Philadelphia area, you never know.🤡
I've seen Invasion USA!
@@RustyorBroken " Do you have Miss Piggy ? " " He broke my watch. "
There is a vid where someone returned to the now abandoned mall and drove through it in the correct car.
my biggest fear being a former infantry marine whos been to iraq, my biggest fear being an every day conceal carrier is being mistaken for the bad guy by another good guy with a gun and getting shot up by a friendly when im trying to stop the guy. so many people out there who have ZERO training will hear gun shots and then pull their gun out and light the first guy up they see with a gun
This exact sort of thing happened to my bosses wife’s son in Sacramento. He rushed in with his conceal carry, had the shooter down at gun point and the cops rushed in, seen a gun drawn and shot him like 9 times. Died instantly. They never gave him a chance to drop his gun, they never asked just shot first and asked questions later. It was really sad because he was a good dude and didn’t deserve that. He was killed for trying to be a good guy
Blue on Blue shootings have been a problem within the police world for decades. Uniformed patrol shows up, sees some guy pointing a gun at another person and gun holder gets killed. Nothing new unfortunately and it still keeps happening mostly around larger urban areas where all the cops don't know each other.
Our own current cops don't even know each other, much less a DEA or state narc or like me...some retired silver haired old guy they've never seen.
In Mayberry RFD that's not as big a problem.
KCPD MO even did a study on ways to curb Blue on Blue. Badge on neckchain was #1 being held up showing everyone around. Putting your gun away unless absolutely needed goes a long way to stay out of the morgue. One thing I learned fairly quickly.....the worst possible thing will happen at the least convenient time in the worst possible location. And that's how Sxxx goes down in the real world. Anyone who's been in real life/death situations knows this.
Absolutely! I know my viewpoint is in the minority, especially here, but I believe one should have some serious training before exercising one's second amendment right.
As a retired police officer, I have had the same concern. When 8
28:00 i had to correct a news paper once. They reported about me being attacked and that i got in my car, trying to get away from my attackers. That was not true. My attackers followed me in their car.
The newspaper told me that their article is correct, because they basically copied what the police report was saying. After i advised them to read the police report again, they changed the article. The article with the wrong information had been online for several days by then.
I live 30 minutes from that mall, I've been there hundreds of times since I was little, and have eaten in that same food court! Hell, I've been to that mall 3 times this year actually! To think something like this could happen in Indiana is just scary. It's weird seeing a town I practically grew up in thrown into the spotlight of national attention..it's just little old Greenwood. Thank the lord Elisjsha was there, and was able to stop him. He's a hero.
This kid didn't ask for this and he'll never be the same. But he was there and took action, saving countless lives by doing so. This young man is a hero and deserves the highest praise possible!
What a pile of tripe. He carried a weapon, why would he do that if he wasn't prepared to use it?!
I remember that video, it was actually the bad guys girlfriend whom was trailing behind a little ways and the good guy just happened to be right between the two, and without realizing it, the bad guys girlfriend seen him draw his gun and turn a corner following and it cost him his life. Glad you brought this particular incident up. Situational awareness is paramount, even under (especially under) high stress and attack
That was at the Walmart in Nevada. Sad story. The gentleman with the CCW was not aware of the male shooter's accomplice, i.e the trailing female. The CCW got in between their paths and was poised to shoot the male shooter, but the trailing female was there. The CCW had tunnel vision on the male shooter, to the exclusion of everything else. John at Active Self Protection, in his commentary on this specific video, said at the end of the day, make sure you are spiritually fit. Depending on the outcome of your offensive actions, this may be the end for you.
@@paulthecpa2717 yes, your totally right. Situational awareness is NO.1 in any self defense, active shooter or any type of engagements period.
Thank you, Paul for bringing to light things the average person would not think of.
I am a retired police officer , you hit it on point. I try telling people about every point you made if engaging a potential shooter. Great video, not sure I’ve seen many like it.
Congrats on 1 million Paul! I will keep praying for you and your loved ones. In my Conceal Carry class we also watched that walmart video as a part of instruction and have always thought about how important it is to take the time to analyze the situation and be aware of my surroundings
Wow, I never imagined it could be that complicated. That was a very thorough and well thought out presentation Paul. Thank you for your service to the community. And as for me as a shooter, having some sort of rest would be very beneficial for long shots. I know that because of practice.
You haven’t actually imagined or seen it. It’s a situation where you can never be wrong
@@rydplrs71 What in the heck are you talking about?
When I heard the reports of the use of a pillar for stabilization, it made sense that the back of the support hand and wrist would be in contact with the pillar because that's the way I've done it in training.
I this was a very informative video but it's really not as complicated as he makes it if you have basic common sense, even less if you have some sort of training. As far as shooting at distance goes, I hope to never be in a situation where I need to use a long range (or any range) shot(s) at someone again but I believe a practicing at all ranges and as many scenarios as possible. If you can put 3 or more in a 6 inch circle at any distance over 40 yards and at any speed that you will be ok if you have a cool head. Contrary to what's in the video unless they're on pcp or bath salts, a head or organs don't and will never know that you can shoot a 6 inch 5 shot group in 45 seconds at 50 yards, or 2 inch 15 shot group at point blank in 10 seconds, they just know if they're in one piece or not. "A bullet changes a lot in your head, even if it hits you in the ass" - Al Capone
I can. Once you go down the Concealed Carry Rabbit hole it can make you consider not carrying. There is an amazing wall of shit coming our way if we EVER have to use our firearm. Its not fair. I wish there was a balance.
I live in New York City and in 2003 we had a city councilman who was shot to death by a gunman and that gunman was almost immediately killed by a police officer who fired six shots at him from a distance similar to this situation.
Depending on the councilman or politician the shooter may be the victim in this story.
@@mortem-tyrannis "he's right you know"
@@mortem-tyrannis
90% likely correct one way or another. Tyrannical politicians know the consequences for their actions, that’s why they like gun control.
😮
@@noahjones4237 who's right?
Thank You Sir for Your examination of this shooting. I used to live in Greenwood, IN. I would drop my two kids at that Mall to buy school clothes or spend birthday money. I’m glad Eli was there and acted to the betterment of His Community.
Good, reasoned content without chest thumping bravado, hyperbole, or speculation. Great stuff as always.
I don't think I have ever seen or heard a better interpretation of what the REALITY of a mass shooting and it's consequences are if one involves themselves. No class I have ever been
a student of has given such a detailed description of what the "good guy" can and should expect in such a frightening confrontation. Excellent piece Paul!
Paul, the tail end of this You Tube (the nonshooting part) is for me (65-year-old former Combat Marine, Dad of two very safe firearms owners shooter-children, and possessor of my FFL) is maybe your best work. So many non-military folks "think" they are going to be the "hero" when in fact they could end up being the assassin.
I look forward to more of you doing this type of thing. Your long ago subscribers know you had to make a very difficult decision a long time ago. You made the right decision, but others may not have. The end of this YT addresses that as few or no others do on YT. I salute you for this. John, from Fallbrook, CA.
What I like about this incident is the armed citizen is NOT former military or law enforcement, just an everyday citizen who exercised his constitutional right and did the right thing, you don’t have to be an Uber double secret operator to display courage and proficient marksmanship
@58 Marine Me neither, coming from a really, really old Marine
@Ben Kanobe thing I like a lot about Paul in contrast to others is he doesn’t make us ordinary citizens/none military people out to feel like we’re lowly and less than.
Elisjsha Dicken. The hero of today’s topic- no police/military training or combat experience.
Jack Wilson Texas church hero- police training yes, no military or combat experience.
I forgot the names of a few other ordinary citizens who saved the day in recent history but the list of good guys with a gun engaging and stoping shootings and or other altercations is long, and so far few of these Good Samaritans have been ex military or persons with combat experience in contrast to those who don’t and are just ordinary folks. Obviously the math works out that way because there are WAY more ordinary citizens than there are police, military and ex military.
Point is you no more need combat experience to stop a bad guy with a gun than you need to be a race car driver to operate a vehicle at highway speeds without incident.
I get your point but,
Combat experience/military training does not necessarily equal a better shooter or a cooler headed, wiser or more capable man.. it can certainly help! But not always.
The level of difficulty in this situation; firing 10 rounds (8 of them finding their mark) within 15 seconds at 40 yards with a 9 mm handgun, under stress, the loud report of an AR-15 inside a building, people being murdered, dozens of people screaming and running,.. is extraordinary. God was truly with this young man and made his aim accurate enough to stop the evil that day.
Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.
just sayin'
Thank the guy that was actually there and the training he put himself through.
Not only does Jesus takes the wheel, he does the firearms as well.
Some people are good with guns, most are not. This young man is good. He was there, and with presence of mind, did everything as good as a trained Police. His immediate action saved lives.Thank you for your actions. By the time LE got there, it was all over. How do suspicious young men get so much firearms & ammunition without questions concerning mass shooters.?
@@IronicalChronical Guns don't kill people, Jesus does?
I really appreciate that Paul takes the time to explain the reality of these situations. People carry firearms for different reasons. I have lots of young kids. It's rare that I go anywhere in public without my wife, a baby, and several other young children in tow. I carry a firearm to protect my family, and to protect myself so that my children can grow up with the love and support of their father. I hate to say it, but depending on your circumstances you have to ask yourself whether or not it's worth it to potentially die for random strangers when you could have just gotten out of dodge. The idea of dying to try and help other people doesn't really bother me, but the thought of my wife and kids struggling without me so I could be a forgotten footnote in a never ending string of mass shooting fatalities really tears me up. Conversely, you have to ask yourself if you can live with knowing you may have been able to do more and chose not to. I think the one thing that is really clear and many people gloss over is that whatever you do, if you find yourself in one of these events it is really going to mess up your life big time.
@david fischer Very well said.
It's a sad reality now.
I think I'd say "change" rather than "mess up," but given today's social and political climate, for the time being, "mess up" may be more appropriate. However, the Greenwood Mall incident shows that sometimes "change" is more appropriate than "mess up." Mr Dicken's response was basically approved by local LE. The only "messing up" of his life Mr Dicken may experiece would be (1) trolls on social media -- BFD, man... who cares? And (2) his conscience, regarding taking another's life. But his conscience should rest easy as the thing he did was appropriate to the situation.
thats why at my age ill take the shot while you take the shot
What sort of 3rd world country do you need to carry around a gun to feel safe?
A very thoughtful, concise and detailed summary of things to consider when faced with such events. The occasional dry humor (“You PROBABLY won't find a truck parked in the Food Court”) definitely helps deliver the serious information in a package that is more easy to swallow.
As he was saying that, I was thinking to myself, "the Hollywood version will have Mr Dicken come hauling ass toward the Mall in his pickup, bash through the glass entry doors, drive up the escalator, come to a fishtail stop, and out jumps (male action star of the moment) to do a John Wick on the little AR wielding waif." So Hollywood would have the truck in the Mall... but nobody in reality would.
Yes, this was very professional, direct, and honest. Paul has my respect. Just the fact, reality, and what you need to know.
Excepting, of course, the fact that they ('They') are ALWAYS raffling a truck in the Food Court. You know it's true.
@@XWGTHOII You're right, I used to see that all the time, dealers would show what they had to offer!
Your 5 questions for engagement of a mass shooter were extremely well thought out and invaluable. Yes, I also carry a small 380 in a pocket holster; however, l have added a green laser because of my limited aiming abilities at distance, plus it offers targeting while behind cover if I find myself in such a situation. Nothing is simple nowadays with concealed carry!
Paul should do a video on lasers 👍🏻
@@ashleywoolnough4884 Yes , It would be titled . " Why not to use a laser. "
@@onthelake9554 maybe
You're the first person i've seen duplicate this without running red dots... of course their shots all hit with tricked out pistols. 40 yards is a hell of a shot with any stock pistol, especially under stress
I train with irons on my pistol, because irons are what ill be using. Train how you fight. Im not going into a surpise 2 way range with the best kit (not that i even have anything tricked out like that, except my AR, which does have a reflex sight), so why would i practice defensive shooting with a tricked out set up?
A dot doesn't automatically make you more accurate. There's a training period required.
Same as with iron sights.
However, once mastered, RDS is far faster between targets, and more accurate at the distances where your eyes would struggle with 2 focal planes while using irons. The older you are (do you have to use readers?), the more difficult that 2 focal plane resolution gets.
From that perspective, RDS isn't "tricked out". But at the same time, I do greatly respect people who have great proficiency with iron sights. They take longer to master and they are difficult for older eyes.
Good iron sights users should appreciate good RDS shooters -- they both worked at their sight picture and presentation proficiency; they both worked on reacquisition in multiple shot strings. The RDS shooter isn't "cheating".
under stress and a moving target, maybe a return firing target... perhaps he advanced on the target as he was shooting or his first shot got him down to the ground and then he pumped more rounds into him. The killer/murderer was retreating wounded toward the restroom , so couple shots to knock him down , then advance and finish the job.
It's 2022 a red dot pistol isn't "tricked out".
@@SmithandWessonBlazer I think it was a term used for color of conversation. The broad stroke is… are you going to EDC with a red dot?
The post target engagement Talk is what I really came for. So very glad I did. Thank you Paul.
From what I read, Eli Dicken fired 10 shots with 8 hits, starting at 40 yards. We don't know what gun he had, but he obviously was a fine pistol shot with that firearm, and had a very cool head. I can only hope that another in such a situation would be that accurate and willing to take the risk. Evidently he made sure his girl friend was safe before engaging the perpetrator.... quite a character.
I believe Dicken had either a Glock 19 or Glock 17 with iron sights.
Heard he had a 9mm Glock. Don’t know the model, or even if that is the case.
Hard to believe he made such accurate shots with a Glock.
Girlfriend was also a hero, apparently she attended to the wounded/injured.
Glock 19 supposedly. They will shoot insanely well at 40 if you know how to shoot.
Profoundly insightful and accurate. My experience is most of the time when you stick your nose into something and try to do the right thing everybody and their brother will say you were wrong and attack you for it no matter how right you are. Think twice, actually three times, before doing it. It will most likely bite you in the ass.
Paul, I especially appreciate your point that many people lack discernment when viewing the news 📰
Thank you for talking about this subject, specifically this situation. It has been conveniently glossed over by most popular media outlets.
Literally everybody knows. Stop it with this rethoric
I was waiting for a situation breakdown by you. Thanks for your time as always.
I know for a fact that I can't hit crap with a pistol at 40 yards. Rifle yes. Pistol no. The biggest fear would be hitting an innocent bystander, or engaging the wrong person. I'd be pissing my pants as I moved forward. And the whole time I'd know that someone else may die because I didn't act quick enough. The pucker factor would be huge. The adrenaline flow would have me shaking. I'd be hoping like hell that everything would be ok. This brings me to my last part. Could I take that other person's life? That is something I've never done before.
I think people in our community like to think they'd be John Wick. The reality is that one would be forever changed. I think I could do it, but lord I'd be hoping I got it right.
A very mature response.
As usual a great presentation Paul, some important things everyone who carries needs to consider.
Hi how are you doing 😊
Excellent analysis Paul! Especially the analysis of whether one SHOULD intervene, based on your capabilities, and particularly the chance of being shot by another citizen that thinks YOU are the mass shooter.
This video should be mandatory viewing in all firearms safety classes.
BTW Paul, I'm from Indy and have been to that mall more times than I can count. Not sure where the 40 yards came from, but around here they have said it was a 30 yd shot. The gunman was standing in the entrance of the restrooms, the Armed Citizen was directly across at a cookie shop. I may take my range finder down there and get a reading. IT also has been reported that he stood behind a vertical column, and used it as a rest. Wish I could confirm the vertical post report, but so far I can't find a reliable source.
Please do. Just take readings from the most likely columns in the food court and repost the results here. There can't be that many columns in that food area, 4-6 maybe? Thanks, in advance.
On another note. The 15 seconds everyone has been talking about. STARTS when the shooter opens fire and ENDS when he goes down.
That's the account from Greenwood Police Chief after viewing the malls surveillance video. “The surveillance video shows shooter exit the restroom at 5:56:48 p.m., he was neutralized by Dicken at 5:57:03 p.m.”
So, how many seconds does it take to get up from a chair, run aprox.10 yards to a support column, aim and engage a target? 5, 6, 7 seconds? Now the timeline
just got shortened to around 10 seconds for young Mr. Dicken to return fire.
Even more amazing!!
I have seen multiple sources in the last week say it was actually 40 feet
@@jsshuntr1257 Exactly. Dude was awesome.
My local mall been going there since it was open air . It's more than 40 feet, it's between 30-40 yards from blondies to the bathrooms entrance .it all depends on where each were standing . So 40 yards is a decent approximation. The guy made great shots , the pillars are big and it's full of tables, chairs , planters and garbage cans in between .add in the chaos of people and being fired at .
It was an amazing string of shots , not easy .
Oh and I never followed that stupid policy ...
@@karllambert2350 He was apparently moving closer as he was shooting so even if it started at 40 yards many of the shots would have come at much closer range. It would also be very interesting to see where the actual hits were. Right now we have no good information whatsoever. Looking forward to the police report.
A wise man once told me: When you shoot in a situation such as this, everything is your backstop. Point being, that bullet, once loosed, won't care if it hits your bad guy, the wall behind him, or a kid running away in terror. It was an admonition not only to become proficient with one's carry choice, but also to be aware of one's surroundings.
There's a lawyer attached to every bullet.
That's why it's one of the 4 primary safety rules. Know your target -- what's between you & it, what's beyond it, what's adjacent to it. Can't call it back once you've let it fly.
If more people paid attention to their surroundings, the world would be a lot better off in a lot of ways.
He hit his target. End of story. Go find videos of how heroic the mass shooter was and whine in those comments.
@@Allenmar73 I've never researched it, Al, but from the various news stories I've read, it does hint in that direction. Generally I'd expect juries to give more deference to LE than to a citizen, but things are very unpredictable these days.
Thank you for making the time to sit down and talk with us…
Your 5 points hit home hard.. so incredibly accurate… every point I was taking a long hard look inside at myself. That young man made a lot of incredibly brave and unbelievably hard Decisions in a rapid amount of time.
I’m thankful for him. 🇺🇸
I feel so braindead sometimes when people like Paul point out certain things and my brain instantly goes "Oh hey yeah, that makes a lot of sense and is such a simple point".
Appreciate your videos Paul, they help keep me in reality in these subject matters, pointing out the possible after effects of such scenarios even if you have good intent but also informing us that with the proper training at the very least you can be prepared to save your own life and possibly that of others around you which is invaluable in my opinion.
Gonna have to give the movie Run, hide, fight a watch now but I think just those 3 words give enough information in itself on how to realisticly deal with a possible violent / life threatening situation and I always tell my loved ones; always try to run first before anything else because that's your best option and it's not being cowardly but preserving your own life.
Well done Paul, well done.
Always a pragmatic view. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Hi Randy how are you doing 😊
That was an impressively well thought out, and articulated presentation. Well done.
Sweet truck! "Accuracy always trumps speed." Thank you for being humble, but you're an amazing marksman and your videos have been very informative and helpful to many. Keep up the solid work! Thank you.
Paul - Thank you for an excellent, thought proving and timely video / analysis. May I respectfully suggest that a #6 needs to be added; specifically “can you live with yourself, if you realistically might have had the ability to preclude innocent death(s) / gave injury(ies), and you failed to do so?” Okay, we’re both military retirees, and our ethos may (?) differ somewhat from America’s mainstream culture. However, I believe in assessing all the VITAL (#1 through #5 apply) concerns you’ve delineated, one MUST also evaluate one’s ability to live the remainder of his or her life feeling “if only I hadn’t run away, others might have survived.”
Very good point
I can live with bailing out. Here in NY, if I act to save others the state will crucify me and my family will suffer. My obligation is to my own people. Few victems really had no choice. Most simply chose victemhood
That one should be applied to the 400 professionals at Uvalde.
That question is the most important one to me, honestly. I couldn't imagine looking myself in the eye knowing I let people die because I was afraid of court costs. But cowards always find some nonsense to justify their cowardice. And cowards sure do have to loudly justify their cowardice over and over don't they?
This is the much more realistic and down to earth version of the trolley problem.
Paul you’re a treasure. Just a man, his camera, and a great personality. Truly a class act.
I'm sure everyone and their brother who've heard this news story have engaged in the "Greenwood" drill in one way or another to try their hand. Yes, I did too with very favorable results on my back yard range with the target not able to potentially shoot back at me and nobody remotely close to the target I was shooting at... I've shot in my share of competitions and can say that the adrenaline is definitely up when compared to shooting on the home range. I can't imagine the adrenaline that had to be flowing when the brave young man engaged that mass shooter... Without knowing for sure I've got to think he's an experienced competitor... Either that or just a natural with maintaining control under stress. I've seen people like that too. Thanks Paul for sharing all the other considerations that come into play when choosing whether or not to engage. This channel has become my sanity check.
Most people go off of the FBI¹s statistics which state the vast majority of gun fights happen within 7 yards/21 ft. In most cases it's extremely difficult to even determine if someone is a threat to you 40 yards away. I am guilty of the same thing thinking that anything would happen in a much closer distance but at the same time seeing something like this even though it has a very miniscule chance of ever happening to me is a bit sobering in that I should actually train farther with my firearm just in case. To be completely honest I don't go to malls very often and I never even considered that a food court was 40 to 50 yards across. It always seems smaller than that
@@andrewcarlson2178 The FBI stat is a bit misleading but not on purpose. That short range is a product of police interaction/approaching perps when SHTF, like attempting to handcuff when the Kansas wind blows south very suddenly.
@@andrewcarlson2178 Something like a J frame Smith & Wesson revolver in .38 caliber with crude non-adjustable sights is probably not going to be up to a 40 yard engagement task in most hands but perfectly fine for the aforementioned 7 yard engagement. I think that being properly prepared for engagement distances out to 40 yards would have to radically raise the bar in firearm selection in addition to additional training.
@@JaleelJohanson62 Exactly! A scandium frame 357 s&w is very easy to carry but an XDs 3.3 45 has a better sight radius for mid distances, while a full size semi auto is even easier. A 460 magnum revolver is great for shooting 100+ yards and hitting roughly 12" size targets, but I don't hit them every time and of course that isn't a carry gun. A snub nose is better than a larger gun left at home and a feather weight requires even more skill to deal with recoil (38+p, as 357 is just about pointless). It was interesting he compared free standing vs. using a rest. I almost always shoot free standing since that is how all of the competitions are done that I have participated in and after tons of practice it seems easier and certainly faster to not use support for pistols. Using a rest adds in more variables and it doesn't always improve accuracy and the same is true for when I use rifles for up to 200 yards on steel plates (speed or silhouette shooting vs. bullseye/accuracy competitions).
Kind of related, but just to demonstrate how adrenaline can boost performance:
I (and a bunch of people) was getting chased by a car through the basketball courts (on foot) and as soon as the car was close to hit me I jumped up and reached for the rim 2handed. I’m 5’10 and on my good days I could hang one handed, on my bad days I could smack the rim. That day, when I was in fear for my life, my body jumped those extra 2-3 inches all on its own. I’ve never done it again.
Adrenaline is one heck of a drug.
As hard as most of us train with the sole purpose of getting better I dont think any of us , except for experienced military type folks , have ever had that rush of extreme stress. All of those points you made about decisions you have to make "right then" have to be made under a tremendous amount of stress that we arent used to. We all hope to be able to help but you just dont know until you are put in the position. Again , GREAT video.
Paul made the point in another video that you really can simulate that kind of duress by taking personal risks in life and get[ting] out of your comfort zone. For example: most people are afraid of speaking in public, so look for opportunities to practice it. You'll get an adrenaline rush and maybe even panic at first. By working through such situations when your life isn't at stake, you'll gain valuable experience for when it is.
"any of us" nah, it's "most all of us" or "very few of us". I've shot more people than some cops have drawn their weapon. Did what I didn't want to do and don't want to do ever again. He's dead on about you have to make a decision fast. For me time slows and I'm not fast enough. I don't know if this is for everyone, once I draw or point a rifle it is GO, I'm looking for the NO GO. Sometimes it never comes.
If you're looking for additional guidance I cannot express how *_OUTSTANDING_* "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob's book is. After reading that and thinking on it, I decided on constant carry. I get up, pants, pistol, boots then coffee. I've got my pistol on now, no back up though (I'm at home). You can stop potential shit without drawing, don't even have to go for the side arm. Just your vigilance can get noticed and people will make u-turns or calm down.
Another is "That Every Man Be Armed: The Evolution of a Constitutional Right" by Stephen P. Halbrook. When I was an instructor, told them over the phone I'm not going to teach you unless you've read "In The Gravest Extreme", bring the book with you so I can see. It was just basic Personal Protection with a pistol inside and outside the home. Sorry for the wall of text.
@@rickh9396 Lots of ways to induce stress. If you can manage it, have a buddy yell at you and give you instructions like a DI. Make you cease fire, jumping jacks, fire 3 shots, now three push ups, while you're in the rain, throw ice water on your neck... 🤣You better do what he says and hit your target.
Compete with your wife, that's stress inducing; my wife shoots so damn slow, still she hits. Tighter groups mostly, and I've already reloaded the mag I just shot 😂She's so proud of herself, grrr.... my only retort is "But did I hit?" she can't argue that, yea that's stressful 😱
In the case of Greenwood Mall, our hero didn't have time to stress, it was all over in 15 seconds from stimulus. Most of us make much better decisions early before adrenaline and stress have time to build up. Usually your first, natural instinct decision is your best one.
When my wife carries my credit card, I'm under extreme stress all of the time.😉
Thank you for your insights and information on this topic. I live less than 3 miles from the Greenwood Mall, and drove past there just before the shooting. I really do appreciate your balanced and well-thought-out approach to this sort of event.
Finally, someone with a brain doing the shot.
Phenomenal commentary/analysis regarding the myriad decisions one must make during a mass shooting (i.e., the fog of war). 👏👏
And great shooting at 40 yds, Paul! 👍🏼
Thanks for your insight. We frequent that mall often, we live a couple of counties south of there and couldn't believe it happened there. It goes to show us, to be vigilant and aware of our surroundings at all times, especially in these troubling times. Again, thank you.
As someone who carries and shoots a 380 Bodyguard regularly, I judge Paul's ability to shoot that gun accurately at 20 yards to be nothing short of amazing.
As was his shooting with the stubby barreled S&W revolver.
hrfunk did a review recently of the 380 Bodyguard and limited his demo to 7 yds, a more reasonable cone of accuracy for the pistol. Mr Harrell is showing what a very proficient shooter can do with that little pistol. It's really small, you're lucky if you get more than 2 fingers on the grip. People who've never shot those tiny pistols may not know what a disadvantage it is to have fewer than all 4 fingers to secure the pistol.
Like Paul said, it's convenient, so that's why mine is on me more than any other pistol I own, but I don't think I would attempt a 20+ yard shot with it in a real-world situation, unless that was the only option. I can do pretty much whatever I want with it out to 10 yards, but I don't practice nearly enough to be confident beyond that.
And he calls himself. “Average” of he’s average, I do not want to know what I am.
@@seanoneil277 I shoot an LCP and 642 rather regularly , the 642 more due to not losing brass in the grass. At 100’ I typically hit a steel rather small half silhouette 80-90% of the time. It’s really not all that hard but you do have to slow down and concentrate.
@@drizler Under ideal conditions with plenty of time, sure. And we all caught that 2 foot brown trout on that 10 foot wide feeder stream with a 3 wt 7 ft rod and a #22 midge. 80-90% of the time at least.
But seriously, one can train to be effective with a tiny pistol. Just may take a long, long time in training.
Paul I've been really sick and recovering this week, so this video really helped take my mind off of how bad I feel. Thank you!
Thank you for the quality content and analysis. Always a huge fan. Thank you
In a world of increasingly polarised opinions, this is a very carefully considered and informative presentation. Evaluating the situation before taking action, and then taking responsibility for that action, is a really powerful message that applies to all walks of life, not just shooting.
One of your best videos ever Paul, without a doubt... probably in the top 10 of the top 250 best /most awesome videos you have made!
Hi how are you doing 😊
I've been to that Greenwood mall before, it's only about 40 miles from me and even though they say no firearms allowed, they have a store in there that sells them even though it's a sporting goods store. I think the guy did the right thing and I would have too if I had been there at the same time. Great video Paul
Dicks is outside the main mall and you have to go outside and then enter the main mall .
Don's guns used to have a store in the mall many many many years ago until he moved across the street and then built what currently is the GPD training facility ..
He gave it to them after a couple of his employees got killed in a robbery .
I'd bet that after it all dies down, he gets banned from the mall.
Still not breaking any law to bring a firearm in that mall. Its only illegal to stay if you are asked to leave for having a firearm and then that would be tresspassing.
@@mattmurphy7030 yes and if you didnt leave when asked that would be trespassing. Some business putting up a sign doesnt create a law though.
Disappointed to see any of your videos removed or deemed violations. Going back and watching your old presentations is useful. Good luck with the next videos
Which one got removed?
@@jarongreen5480 I think the hour long one where he talked about mass poopers , management pulled it
@@357-swagnumultramagax9 I thought it was that one too but its still there
@Paul Martin Got titles of the deleted vids?
Well that sucks, I love going back and watching some of Paul's vids when I am trying to get certain lessons really stuck in my head to practice.. also for "the rambling that is boring for some people, so skip ahead to 11 minutes and 20 seconds to get to the good part ".. LoL
I think I could watch Paul break down anything from how to clean a grill to maybe how to drive in a tornado.
Paul embodies everything good about military training and trainers.
A few hundred thousand of us have watched Paul cook a Thanksgiving dinner (complete with dessert) in Dutch ovens.
I couldn't help but chuckle when you described a very bad scenario at 22:46 (only because you closed with "that could get stupid really fast"); however, that is something I've thought of when going through training drills. Reminds me of the tragic story of John Hurley.
He is very good. Good shooter, good points, good use of common sense. Great presentation, great lessons.
From one veteran to another Paul, I'd just like to address a big thing that can fall under your 5th point that we may not think about compared to civilians specifically. And that is (for civilians), can you actually stop the threat, period. I respect you, and this community a lot more than some other "guntuber" style channels. So I really want people to think about this along with your points.
Military personnel, regardless of MOS/rate, rank, age, branch, etc. are taught the fundamentals of action. Maybe not to "kill" like Hollywood has portrayed, but to always do something during times of stress. And to get familiar and comfortable enough to do something while under such tremendous stress and little time to think. Of course service members panic, and they can have the best instructors, the best training, and the best gear. And it still happens. Some of us have that ability to rely on instinct, whether it's for self preservation, or the need to help and protect. And simply put, some just don't have that ability.
I was a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy. My "action" is to treat under fire. Rule 1 of combat medicine is secure the threats before administering aid. Simplified, make the enemy unable to shoot you so you can do first aid, by any means necessary. With what I carry, a taurus public defender, and for how often I get to go to the range because I do not have the luxury of financial stability, I cannot shoot as effectively as I would like to for a Greenwood style situation. Which means, I would need to get closer to confidently neutralize the threats and begin first aid to injured civilians.
That's hard for me to admit, because that basically means unless the target is closer, I should be running for the exit or hard cover. But I have to admit it because I'm not just shooting a threat. I'm keeping myself alive so I can help keep others alive when the shooter isn't shooting. Civilians, you, commenters and viewers, are not trained to do what I was. Or what Paul was trained for.
So, forget ego, step away from the monitor, and sit alone with yourself, and seriously ask yourself, if you can stop the threat.
My eldest son was first a Hospital Corpsman, with the mud Marines, in the sandy cesspool. After he ETSd he got tired of his two paratrooper brothers calling him a leg, so he joined the Army where he was an Intel type, back in the sand, assembling snatch/kill target packages, and then a recon team NCO with the secondary duties of Combat Medic. Under both hats, Navy and Army, he was in the "very unhappy" zone, doing the real thing. Inbetween times, and after ETSing the Army, he had periods of working for several Police and Sheriff's agencies. He still carries an abbreviated medic backpack everywhere he goes. Just as I, a retired police/military firearms/tactics trainer and SWAT goon, look at my environment through the lens of, "OK, who in this scenario needs killing or rescuing?", due to his Law Enforcement experience, he looks at it the same way, but also as "OK, who in this scenario needs a tourniquet?" That "Extreme Oh Shiite Day" mindset never leaves you. Our "never served" shooting buddies chuckle at the "what if" range scenarios we invent, until we explain the concepts to them. "We mock what we don't understand"...
Greenwood Park Mall is 20 minutes from my home. We go there at the beginning of every school year to get clothes for my daughter's. Very tragic how this kind of thing happens and how often it's been happens. Thank you very much for the useful information Mr Harrell. Love the content and I was really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this matter.
You made some very important points. First I have been in an office shooting (fun fact, it was in the same city the greenwood hero lives in, and was across the street from where he was going to school). During my work place shooting, a coworker killed my boss 10 ft away in a room I was next to. When I heard the first 3 shots my first thoughts were a mix of “is this a drill?”, “am I really in an office shooting?”, “were the shots on the first floor or second floor?”. While I was wondering these questions, I heard a fourth shot and then my thoughts were “oh my god I’m in a mass shooting and he’s executing people”. At that point a coworker yelled “get out of here” and we all ran to the back stairs and out of the building. My point being that you can be the biggest sheep dog around, but mass shooting and office shootings are chaos, and unless you train over and over for them, you will probably panic and freeze up.
Since then I bought my first gun, and trained a lot with it, so I’m more comfortable with the sound of gunfire, and have a different mindset. But honestly I would probably have a similar reaction in the same or similar situation. It’s good to remember that every situation is different, and it’s not Run-Hide-Fight, it’s Quickly Assess, Move to a better advantage, decided what you should do, act, or OODA.
For me, in a mass shooting event, unless the gunman was right there and I could counterattack quickly and effectively, I’m probably figuring out the shortlist exit and helping others escape. I’m not going to hunt down the gunman.
Thanks for another thorough analysis Paul!!
Great job!!!
Hi Chris how are you doing 😊
Paul you are my hero I love all your content I don’t have a father or grandfather’s anymore and your sense of humor reminds me of them my grandfather was like you he won every competition he shot in and loved black powder shoots . God bless you and keep the amazing work.
I love your videos Paul, thank you so much for making one on this. I haven’t even started it yet and I just wanted to say this because of the title and well, thank you.
You are as poignant and precise as ever. I hope I’m using that first word right. To quote the British, truly splendid.
Paul i just wanted to say i love you and god bless you. You have taught me so much over the years and i cant express how grateful i am to have found this channel. You helped motivate me into getting my CCL, to always carry, to be safe and safe handling.
The one thing I'm surprised you didn't bring up is the fact that the guy was able to make the shot at 40 yards but was able to do so under high stress and adrenaline spike which would make an accurate shot at close range difficult without some kind of training, I can only compare that to hunting where you have to calm yourself down before you take a shot which shooting at targets can teach you to make the shot but not to calm yourself down enough to make the shot
Not only was it a high stress situation, he was shooting cold. He didn’t have any practice shots.
@@frawdulent the concept of "I need to warm up with some practice shots" is nonsense. The very first shot is your true skill and you should practice until you hit the target at 25 yds or 40 or 50 or whatever on your first shot. "Warm up" is a euphemism for lack of skill.
The young man practices on a regular basis. He lives near several very nice DNR RANGES. But he may also just need to step out his back door.
@@steveh5307 not everyone is a sharpshooter like you. Why are gun people so pompous about everything? We get it, you’re the greatest shooter the world has ever seen.
@@frawdulent That's not "sharpshooting". It's something anyone who moved beyond the basics should know how to do. If you've been shooting several times but can't hit a plate sized target at 25 yds on your first shot, you don't know how to shoot and need to keep practicing until you can. It's not some special skill. It's a standard skill that somehow became "special" over the years.
Paul is easily one of the best gun channels. I always find myself rewatching his videos.
As a middle aged guy myself doing this over 40 years I notice and like many things he does. He's removed from the modern "tactitard' era of firearm ownership. The way he carries himself, his stance, his grip, his choice of firearms etc etc is a throwback to the way things used to be. Nowadays you have some clueless nOOb yammering on about this or that polymer striker fired 9mm (who owns anything else) with a red dot optic mounted. You pick up a 1911 .45, Beretta M9/92FS, Sig Sauer P-220, P-226/Mk25, CZ-75B, Browning Hi-Power, HK P7PSP/M8/M13, S&W 66, 686, 10, 29 etc etc you can out shoot them any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Paul is one of the few people on here that I believe is telling the truth about his experience. These other guys claim to have been doing it for years and years, however all the clues point to otherwise. People forget I was there with him, so I know. This guy or that girl may have been doing this 10 -12 years and no more. I would wager MOST have been doing it less than 10. If you go back to early videos which many have since been deleted they are using and endorsing junk like Hi-Point, Taurus, Kel-Tec.........now they are a USSOCOM Operator. Eh, it doesn't work like that.....nobody said you have to have a HK Mk23, Wilson Combat CQB etc etc. But anybody with any level of formal experience would have always been using high quality gear.
Excellent video, excellent points. So many things to think about, and to prepare for. Several friends and I have discussed the points of your video. There are no easy answers.
Thank you for your videos.
The whole Greenwood Park Mall shooting has been an interesting thing to take in. I've been a lifelong resident of Greenwood, so to have this happen not five minutes from my home, to have family & friends present at the mall during the shooting, and one of the victims being a barber at the barber shop I've gone to since I was a kid has put a lot into perspective. That being said, to add some perspective to those who are not familiar as myself with the space in question, while 40 yards is not out of the question for the this area of the mall, the food court is a roughly 90ft/30yd diameter circle, there are only a few locations where Mr. Dicken would have had an opportunity to shoot a full 40+ yards. Please note, I am not trying to diminish or discredit the information being presented, just trying to provide some context. The crazy thing is, if the 40 yard shots are in fact true, he would have been more than likely facing the restroom that the shooter had exited when he started, and been straight in the line of fire. See the back center of the the attached photo. Not only that, but he would have had to shoot across the food court with plenty of stuff potentially being in the way. I have linked a picture of the rough position of one of the places that Mr. Dickens could have been standing to take the crucial shots that brought the shooting to an end. In regards to stabilization/cover, there would not have been much available for Mr. Dickens to utilize aside from a table, trash cans, or maybe one of the counter tops of one of the stalls on the outer perimeter of the food court, behind the photographer in the picture below.
assets.simon.com/PropertyImages/165/greenwood-park-mall-01.jpg
On a separate note, Paul, as always, your content, perspective, and wisdom are all extremely well-done and concise. I cannot applaud you enough for not just accessing/demonstrating the mechanics and the other moving parts of these kinds of events, but also taking the time to emphasize the importance of thinking things through, and how crucial that is in the moment. All while being, 100% apolitical. I see plenty of comments floating around, not necessarily on this, or many of your videos, floating around talking to the effects about how "I would have run in to stop the Sum-Bitch guns a blazing" and it has always worried me that many people do not think tactically, and I don't mean Seal Team 6 or Rambo, in those situations. I learned a very apt lesson when I was in marital arts as a kid that I have personally applied to my concealed carry. "This is not meant to be your spear, it is meant to be your shield and, hopefully, your last resort. While a shield is not an offensive weapon, you must keep it well-maintained and train with it to ensure that it will not fail you if the time comes that you need it." I know myself well and would realistically be one to move away from the action and try my best to help get others out of harms way, only resorting to drawing my conceal carry if absolutely necessary.
Thanks for the info.
"Shooting fast does not help you if you miss."
Try telling that to the cops. Just recently some cops fired at an armed suspect. The combined total number of rounds fired was 7 rounds. 3 cops fired seven rounds, and scored seven hits. The trouble is that only one round hit the suspect, the other six rounds hit SIX BYSTANDERS.
Where was this?
EDIT: I looked it up myself. It's Denver is anyone is interested. About six days ago.
@@FoxtrotFleet - Yes, Denver, California.
@@erockz8123 - But they HAVE had training. They simply have no self discipline, and are not held accountable. If a citizen missed like that and hit a bunch of innocent people he'd be prosecuted. But the cops get a pass because of their line of work. Nobody gives free passes because someone's a mechanic or an interior decorator, but if they happen to work as a police officer they get a free pass for wrongdoings (and there are a lot of wrongdoings going on with cops).
@@erockz8123 - By the way, cops, on average, have less than 20% hit rate outside the range.
When the only time an LEO shoots his pistol is annual qualifiying, that's what you get.
Very much enjoy the details in every video you gift us with. Your thoughtful presentations cover virtually all “what ifs” and “supposes”, if not ACTUALLY all of them! Thank you, Paul. ❤️
Thank you Paul. I support your videos via Patreon and I always get more than a bargain with your productions.
Thanks Paul for your very rational and informative video on this somewhat touchy and volatile topic. I think a lot of your presentations save lives and this is definitely one of them.
I'm always worried when Paul is sitting on a log speaking to us. Where I live sitting on a log in the bush is a really dangerous thing to do. Deadly snakes, deadly spiders and the most deadly DROP BEARS can strike at any time
23:04 There is an old video of Jim Cirillo talking about an incident like this with the NYPD bunch of cops from different divisions (patrol, undercover narcotics plainclothes robbery homicide) got into a shootout with each other.
In regard to point 4 During the Clackamas town center shooting (happened the day before sandy hook) a concealed carrier drew his weapon on the shooter there were too many bystanders and he didn't feel confident enough to take the shot the shooter did see him however he ran into a hallway fixed the malfunction on his rifle then killed himself
Paul doing an analysis of the a situation always well thought out
Most channels doing a so called drill with no thought of the situation
A young man was forced into a terrible situation made a quick decision probably with adrenaline pumping and a target 🎯 that could shoot back , yes he made the right decision
however I feel bad for him that he had to do it and hope he’s ok
Couldn't stop watching. That's Paul. Thanks for the invaluable info.
Thank you for your very wise insight of the whole situation at Greenwood Mall. Great video. And great camera by the way. Subscribed for future presentations.
What a beautiful video title. I can’t wait to hear and see your breakdown on this!
I really like these "analysis " videos, especially the Miami Dade analysis video you did a few years ago!! Love to see more of that format
Everyone that carries needs to watch this video, especially from 16:00 on. So many things I've thought about but don't hear/see even some instructors talk about. People like to glamorize it, but defensive shooting situations are just absolutely awful in every way, and the trouble almost never ends when the shooting does.
Paul, I can't say enough how much I appreciate your professionalism. Damn good video and final points/thoughts. We need a million more like you Sir.
Well thought out. Facts of life presentation. Listen & Heed.
Paul, I appreciate the thoughtful analysis. One item that has run through my head since an earlier presentation of yours in this series is what could be a 6th question to ask oneself: who is with you and are you responsible for their safety? I have young children. In my mind, I think my first instinct if I were in or near a bad situation while they are with me would be to get them the hell away from it. Run, hide, fight in that order. I'm curious as to your take on this, knowing you would not proffer advice. If I were alone and in a similar situation and in a position where I think I'm potentially capable of successful intervention, I think I would have a different calculus. I know it's easy to just type that last statement, but I wouldn't truly know unless tested and I'd prefer such a test not present itself. --John Skinner
John, In an attempt to answer your question I give this example. I have seen crashes on highways when I have my family with me. I would not stop to help for fear my family would get hit while I was stopped. Especially on interstates and bad weather roads. Me helping others is not worth their safety. So, run, hide, and when necessary fight. Protect your own first. Go home alive. Just imagine if you did not win the engagement and your family saw you get killed. If you are by yourself and prepared to do so, take the fight to the enemy and kill the bastard. Praying you never have to make those choices other than in scenarios.
@@royharrell1760 What is it with the surname Harrell and giving good advice?
@@royharrell1760 Thank you for the thoughtful response! I don't often seek validation of my thinking when it comes to values-based judgements, but there are a lot of layers to consider here. It's only recently that my mind has spent any real time contemplating such scenarios, which could be an indictment of our current culture or the media for making this topic overly salient or my lack of mental preparation for it previously not being so. Though such a situation should be rather unlikely, the stakes involved in split-second decisions are of the highest order and any decision has potentially irreversible ramifications for those involved. This helps me have confidence in my thinking and hopefully would put me in better readiness to make the right decisions, should something occur in my proximity, without succumbing to analysis paralysis.
I think I speak for most of us when I say I've really been waiting on this one from Paul.
oh yeah, me too
Thank you Paul for the very thoughtful presentation. In a situation where you are thinking about stopping a threat which could also end a life, you have to be totally honest about yourself and your capabilities as Paul explained. No time for a Dirty Harry impression. It will be a life changing event when you pull the trigger and the repercussions thereof you will own. The young man in this mall scenario performed at a level I suspect few in that situation could. He was a Angel from heaven at the right place at the right time. But an oversized ego and an underweight puncher could find themselves in hell in the same situation.
Simply one of the most reasonable and intelligent videos I have ever seen regarding the responsibilities of carrying a firearm.
Excellent discussion and things to think about
This is a great series, even with "four" parts! Thanks for posting. Keep 'm coming.
All four parts are on Odysee.
i used to scoff at you for saying not to believe what police say, but recent events both nationwide and within my family have taught me to be highly skeptical towards police. i don't trust anything they say, and if i was asked to be on a jury I would have to say I place no faith in the police's ability to tell the whole truth without embellishment or down right perjury. definitely makes you think twice in engaging in citizen involved shootings.
So you would just stand there?!?
I think we have enough “heroes” who just stand there
The most respectful thing you can do for the police is to make them honor your rights. The worst thing you can do is encourage them down the path of tyranny
I'm glad that you've learned how wrong you really were. I myself have known for most of my life, due mostly to where I grew up, that cops are never to be trusted. A great number of them are literally the scum of the earth. And re serving on a jury, I'd definitely let them know that I will never believe a word that comes out of a policeman's pie-hole.
@@misterbaker9728 A counterpoint - what if you aren't confident that you can accurately hit the target without causing more unnecessary bloodshed? I think for some it is the right choice to back down, and for others it is the better choice to step up. Only the individual can make that decision though, like Paul says, "You be the Judge".
@@misterbaker9728 Did you read a comment I don't see? Because your statement does not match what I am seeing here. Perhaps you misread some of this?
Even the police officer in the recent DFW airport shooting incident initially reacted by turning and running before stopping, turning around and confronting the shooter with his sidearm. Hard to say how you would react
Great topic and demonstration. Paul We have several considerations to make before doing something really bad.
Outstanding presentation! Lots to think about before defending ...