Why did God not want man to eat of the Tree of knowledge? | Fr. Athanasios Mytilinaios otelders
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- Опубликовано: 23 фев 2023
- In this recording, Archimandrite Athanasios Mytilinaios (1927-2006), answers the question: "When we say ‘tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ [Genesis 2:17], is there a deeper meaning in these words?" "Pay attention at this point! God did not set a trap 'to catch' Adam and Eve. It would be stupid! But He warns them that their time has not come yet. It will arrive."
#treeoflife #orthodox #christian
Audio source: “Catechism”, no. 907 (in Greek), February 2, 1996
www.arnion.gr/index.php/p-than...
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i'm a teenager and my parents are orthodox, i've recently begun to actually express my faith (reading the bible daily, praying), and so i didn't know this. very interesting
That's wonderful! May God enlighten you on your journey.
@@asapasiafury4100 thank you. amen.
God bless you on your journey. I'm 25 and I am converting to the Orthodox Church. I started in order to give my son a better opportunity at spiritual wholeness and a relationship with God I never started with. God bless you and I pray for your path to be a great one
@@The_WatchList God bless you and i pray that you walk in the steps of God and find greatness in him, i love you brother ☦️
A brilliant explanation and allegory of Adam's sin! When he made the comparison between the Tree of Knowledge and fire/medicine, it all clicked in my head and I was left starstruck at how much sense it made! God bless this Elder!
Amen. The holy fathers further teach that the reason this disobedience resulted in our expulsion from Paradise (i.e., becoming mortal) is that, because we lacked the virtue and maturity the Archimandrite spoke about, to be immortal and unvirtuous would condemn us to a demonic existence. Death is therefore a gift from Almighty God which focuses our lives on the need for repentance.
in order for evil not become immortal
Why do we still die? What changed since The Fall?
@@Aaron-xb4rq none of us were born into virtue and yet we all still possess gnosis. Christ's death on the cross was what allowed us to be able to regain virtue through repentance, and repentance is an earnest desire to seek god.
@@benkai343434 Our capacity for gnosis and to live a virtuous life never changed. It is our birthright as human beings. Christ's death did nothing to change who we essentially are. Man got lost along the way and forgot who he is. Christ reveals to man who man is and who God is, calling man to actualize that which he always already is, but has failed to realize and actualize. It is through repentance (on the level of Being) and noetic prayer that we live this reality.
@@Aaron-xb4rq
DEATH is a spiritual death -
Death in the Old Testament meant away from God eg /hades
But through the curse of death came eternal life ( immortality as God our Lord intended +
' Christ is RISEN from the dead , trampling down death by death and on those in the graves has He bestowed life +++
If we die without Jesus Christ then we are as those dead in the graves ...
"Through the Resurrection of the God-Man, the nature of man has been led irrevocably to the path of immortality, and death has thus become fearful.
For, before the Resurrection of Christ, death was something feared by man; but after the Resurrection of the Lord, man has become something fearful for death. If a man lives in Faith within the Resurrected God-Man, he lives above death.
He stands impregnable by death. Death is transformed into a "footstool beneath his feet": "O death, where is thy victory? O Hades, where is thy sting?" (I Corinthians 15:55). Therefore, when a man in Christ breathes his last, he sheds only the shell of his body, to be clothed with it once again on the day of the Second Coming.
All Glory be to God+++
The best interpretation I've ever heard.
This is so illuminating, thank you for this word Father! God bless you!
how loving and wise OUR GOD is.thank you
The title of this video needs to be corrected. Instead of the tree of life, it should say the tree of knowledge.
Thank you!
Hey was thinking the same! Change the title sir!
Really lovely topic ❤️ beautifully explained,Lord have mercy on us.
0:54 separation
1:12 Tempted into Fall
1:52 It was not a bad tree 🌲
3:08 God has theoretical knowledge of sin, Man would have experiential knowledge of sin.
4:10 God didn’t lay a trap 🪤 to catch Adam and Eve
4:55 Medicine 💊”keep away from children.” “Because they will get poisoned if [they taste them].”
5:15 Maturity - Learning how to live
Timestamp at 4:55 is not correctly interpreted by you.
@@DoubtingThomas333 it now says what Fr. Says in quotes.
Thank you, thank you this is wonderful shalom.
Thank you so much, convienient timing as I was wondering the questions answered . Lord be with you.
Спасибо.
I know Jesus Christ came to redeem us...but still it's very difficult to live a holy life....I am scared, tempted, sometime hopeless.......so many questions arises???
Eventhough I believe Jesus, I fall many times choosing world more than God...feeling guilty...
Keep struggling dear keep struggling but do not forsake prayer and confession God will see your desire in this effort so do not feel hopeless removing of passions it is not a easy task but not impossible a holy saint said once those who do it and struggle their rewards are bigger then those who had little struggle towards them! Keep praying asking especially the mother of God to assist you without her I tell you you will not have salvation! So go to her
@@johnpaul3019 👍🤞
Do not despair, God forgives. It is a trap of the devil. If you can, go to your nearby parish talk to the Priest and participate in sacraments frequently. God will help.
Proverbs 24:16 The godly may trip seven times, but they will get up again.
1 John 1:9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
John 10:26 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
Ezekiel 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
So keep getting up and keep asking God for forgiveness - God is patient and he wants to help you choose to desire to be & to become righteous.
@@skytan4436 here priest himself doing things against God, always cursing people, no charismatic session, always asking for money, no one will there be for confession...but I used to go to retreat centers very far from my place and take part in charismatic sessions, confession and holy mass...., where I get renewed but fall again after a month....it's a cycle of life and death always
The story is more complicated and more simple at the same time... To disobey Gods commandment is the same as to reject His love, and to say in your heart that He is not needed any more... That was done by Eve first, and Adam second... Simply Eve and Adam became selfish enough to forget Who was Thy... Who was the First and foremost... On the other hand, both of them did not know that becoming mature brings some painful things in life... The garden of Eden was not their home any more... The love of God remained to our days...
He is saying that God didn't put the tree there to work as a trap but His intentions were good, wanting Adam and Eve to eat from the tree when they will be ready. The thing is though that God is all knowing, past, present and future, which means that He already knew they will disobey Him and still proceeded to put them to a test He already knew the result. What this means is that God already knew that this ''test'' of His will result in Adam and Eve falling from Heaven, following up with lots of suffering for mankind here on Earth and even more eternal suffering for lots of people who will end up in Hell. So is there really a free will when the one who chooses to put you to a test already knows the result or it's just God's will for everything that happened, happening and will happen in the future?
Η ΓΝΩΣΗ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΘΕΙΚΟ ΓΝΩΡΙΣΜΑ,
Why did God didn't keep away Adam Eve from that tree, if they are still immature and it would be dangerous for whole man kind....I still feel for the lost souls those who are in Hell...
I think because he gave us also free will
Of course it's because he gave us free will. But God also knows all those choices an individual will make. Not that he has determined them, but that according to the nature of that individual they will choose for themselves. That's why Christ said to the Pharisees that if you believed you would have life but you won't believe. Because they wouldn't believe then or ever. And St Athanasius said that it was Gods divine plan for man to taste of the fruit so that he may be eventually saved by Himself in His incarnate form, that man may obtain to a better paradise.
@@namiyukozoma5120 this free will is the problem now , which parent will give free will to their 3year old kid, parents take care fully as their kids are immature..poor man is like a kid when compared to the God's world and his wisdom...this world is deceiving, attracting leading many souls to hell...how many know this, yes only few, but man who created in the image of God got lost...God created man with this faulty nature ...
Because Adam was not yet perfect, he needed to grow inside, this tree was a way for him to learn to say “no”. As many times as he looked at the tree as a choice, he had to make the right choice and say "no". In this way he would “grow”,after which the Lord himself would taste him the fruit of this tree.
@@ToMaryJesusJoseph you compare God to your mom and dad? How can you compare infinity with 2
God told only to Adam not to his woman. Adam told to the woman. The name Eve came after the fall.
Vivat Christus Rex!
Long Live Christ the King!
Viva Cristo Rey!
If The Fall is simply about disobeying God, then wouldn’t salvation be the return to obedience of God? Clearly this is not the case, because it’s not by adherence to the Law which we’re saved.
Perhaps The Fall is actually about the forgetfulness of our true nature through our fall from simply being into dualistic thinking (good vs evil) and all that results. Then salvation wouldn’t have anything to do with transgressing a rule, but about awakening to our true nature and abiding as such.
This brings with it a different understanding of sin and repentance, as well. Sin is not transgressing God’s rules, but rather turning away from our very being - a forgetting of God. Repentance likewise isn’t about being sorry for and admitting our transgressions against the Law, but rather being transformed in the renewal of our mind (metanoia) - to return from dualistic thinking and doing to simply being. It’s a remembrance of our true nature and an abiding as that which essentially, always, and already are.
Anyone stop the masonic symbol at the being?
what simbol i dont see?
@@youtubestermsofservic3799 all seeing eye pyramid. Only on for a few seconds.
@@Odo-so8pj What second?
The all seeing eye was used by Christians before masons even existed (see, for example, the monasteries built by Saint Stephen The Great). Most masonic symbols if not all are stolen from Christianity, that doesn't mean we should stop using them.
@@yingmihai Who do you think created them. I think you'll find they go back to Rome esp jesuits. The great schism the great whore.
Why didn't God say not to eat Opioids??? Now that would have been a good message from God. I guess knowledge is bad and opioids are good.
So much bla bla and after this let's look at church's history . At what horrors religion generated . Or didn' t it ?
This is a popular claim. Evil humanity misuses Christianity for selfish purposes just as it does with politic movements or drugs. Also most of the wars have not been religious. Better just read all that Jesus said and then consider if there's anything horrific.
You confuse orthodoxy with Catholicism
you can say the same for science as well
Christianity being twisted and misused for evil purposes does not change the original message of Christ.
You really didn’t make much of a point at the end. You completely glossed over how knowledge is generated which you’re saying is necessary before we can wield powerful tools like medicine or matches or good and evil. But the point is that the serpent beguiling Eve and by extension Adam, they begin the process of becoming fully awake and self conscious. Meaning you have to make mistakes in order to gain knowledge in the first place. Partly that means there’s a price for learning and growing. They learn they are naked, meaning they learn they are vulnerable. Which means they now possess the knowledge of how to exploit vulnerability which turns to knowledge of good and evil. I can’t for the life of me see what point you’re making at the end. How can man grow in virtue without free will and knowledge of good and evil. How could man have been destined to gain knowledge without sin or damage? On what basis can you make those claims? Jesus Christ solves the paradoxical condition of human existence. Man needs sin in order to overcome it. Without dire consequences you cannot have free will. You have to optimally die all the time in order to live. You have to let faulty information die in order to gain new knowledge. You cannot learn without making mistakes. The world we live in is paradoxical. Christ solves that paradox and embodies it. Virgin birth, dies to defeat death, walks on water, Trinity solves the unity and multiplicity problem.
Burning bush is a paradox, God is underneath it. The paradox grips you like it does to Moses. God the father creates the paradox of existence
Jesus (and the other prophets) show you how to act (how to let the spirit fill you) in order to overcome it
The Holy Spirit is what fills you with the ability to do it.
After hearing the whole video I can say that I cannot not understand what are you talking about 😆
@@Razamaniac am i crazy? lol
Fr. Athanasios at ruclips.net/video/kbVh6HUvqx8/видео.html distinguishes between 'practical' knowledge and 'theoretical' knowledge.
He continues to give an example: God knows sins - but He Himself has not committed sin. We, on the other hand, know sin because we have committed sin.
Fr. Athanasios is basically saying that, like God, there was a way for us to gain the knowledge without making mistakes (and that's God original intention - or else why blame us for falling at all?).
In our daily life, making mistakes is, indeed, one of the ways we gain knowledge. But I think it is safe to say it is not the only way that we learn. So, even within our realm, it is possible that we could have learned without making mistakes.
Now, considering that God operates at a level much higher than ours (knows more than us), it is very possible that God had a way of teaching us **without** us making mistakes. If our thinking cannot fathom how - that still won't exhaust God's plans to do that.
An example that comes to mind is the angels. Do they have free will? Yes - proven by the fall of some of them. Have the unfallen angels committed sin? As far as we know - the answer is no (or else they would need salvation). The likely course is that they have attained the knowledge without practicing sin.
It's an intriguing point for sure - may the Lord give us understanding... (isn't everything with free will intriguing? :))
@@GeorgeM76 Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Just to be more clear on knowledge gathering, I would say the process of making the mistakes can obviously be played out in the mind without having to play it out in action. But the mind is still running simulations and checking as best it can for potential errors, and we avoid the patterns of action that fail to play out properly in the mind. So we can actually gather new insights through our thought process. BUT, and its a big but, insight we gain where we learn something new or have a new idea is clearly inspiration. So that knowledge comes from God through his Spirit.
I could be remembering this wrong but I think I learned that angels are beneath humans.
Still, I find that in the video he fails to actually make any point at all. It doesn't make sense that God would make everything the way it is and not be prepared for the fall. Also why would we want paradise, where we somehow become virtuous without having knowledge of good and evil. you cant be virtuous without knowing the stakes. Thats why animals are not virtuous, they're not self conscious. So when he says we weren't ready for the apple because we lacked virtue, we could not have gained any real virtue without the apple. He makes no point.
thx @@Jerkasaur for explaining a bit more to me...been thinking about this off and on... I agree with you that there is no virtue without having knowledge of good and evil (animals is a great example).
I think where views differ is whether knowledge without first-hand experience is actually sufficient to result in virtue... here's my understanding:
[1] Given that God is fair, God really did not want us to disobey Him, and wanted us to be virtuous, then, there must have been an option other than disobeying.
[2] The proposal in this sermon attempts to say that that other option God would have preferred was to learn through knowing but without first-hand trying the wrong.
[3] Does it work? Well, if it was God's preferred way, and God is all-knowing, then it must have worked should we (Adam/Eve) have made a different choice.
I think there can be different views on each of individual bullets... I broke them to kind of understand at what level the views differ...
If I understood the sermon correctly, God was 'prepared' for the fall - however, it just wasn't the preferred plan. God knows we'll sin, but He's been prepared from eternity with salvation.
The notion that we had no choice at doing the wrong removes all virtue - and all consequences (no free will, no need for salvation, etc). God would not judge us if we truly did not have a choice.
I find these discussions really helpful in how we interact with God - how He loves, yet, He wants us to correct our ways and grow... so - good stuff :)
@meaxm787 , that's interesting, would love to hear more about this... My understanding is that the church typically uses Isaiah 14:12-17 as the reference to show how Satan became to be - a falling angel turning into Satan.
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2014:12-17&version=NKJV
If angels did not have free will, then, that would mean that the angel turning into Satan is an act of God and the fallen angel had no choice in it.
If it is an act of God, then God creates/does evil. And that is something Christianity does not believe in.
(funny, youtube wouldn't let me post to separate replies for some reason, and looks I don't know how to @ other users either :) )