@@Falconlibrary I have this 1935 edition of Websters. I think it’s insane that an even the dictionary is under attack. This insane ideology(also known as a grift) gets its nasty little hands on everything.
Well said! You explained it so much better than I ever could. There was a distinct lack of respect on deCamp's part for Howard and his work. Thanks, Michael!
"But this is also where he was making all of his money"...Bingo! Lol! Conan the Buccaneer (and everything else de Camp wrote) can't hold a candle to Howard's writing. But I did enjoy this book as a light popcorn summer adventure set in the Hyborean world with Conan routinely chopping off heads. Good stuff Michael! Thoughtful and insightful as always!
There are pastiches and there are pastiches. Some suck. Some are mediocre. But some give us more enjoyable time with characters that we have loved to hang out with. I have spent time with some of my favorite characters(Spenser for Hire, Sherlock, Conan, Tarzan and others)written by the Not original authors that I would not have been able to do without pastiche writers. I am very thankful for the good ones.
It should be firmly established from the outset that "pastiche" is not a kind of French breakfast pastry. Now with that out of the way, you nailed the essential element of a good pastiche Michael: respect for the character. And implied in that is knowledge and understanding of the character's world, knowing how far the pastiche writer can go and in which directions.
Well said. I liked all the pastiche Conan books. Even the not so great ones. I liked the old "Official Conan Chronology." Even though it wasn't how REH wrote them. It's fun reading through Conan's life from youth to kingship and beyond.
That's a good condition Conan paperback you got there. Age, used bookstore new price, and original buyer scribblings inside the covers usually accompany such items.
I am old enough to recall that in the 1960's, L.- Spraguie de Camp was a very highly regarded SciFi writer and Hpward was not even respectable in critical at the time- Times change
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts about literary pastiche. I personally have always associated pastiche with a tribute to a certain writer's style or, I guess, particular milieu, and not necessarily using their characters. Much of the early work of writers, especially, comes off as pastiches of their influences, and that's not at all surprising. Early Lovecraft sometimes feels like Poe or Dunsany pastiche. Early Stephen King was pastiching everybody from Lovecraft to Robert Bloch and beyond. The writer Philip Jose Farmer did a lot of pretty famous pastiches of other writers. Using Holmes, Conan, etc -- yes, it's pastiche, but more appropriately (I think) is taht other more contemporary term you used, "Fan fiction". Speaking of Sprague's Conan pastiches, I haven't actually read any myself, but I did read most of Sprague's autobiography in preparation fora podcast about his book Lest Darkness Fall. he does come across as being quite full of himself, but also kind of self-aware in his own way -- bit like William Shatner in that sense, maybe. He's not above making fun at his own expense but at the end of the day, "Sprague" is still "kinda better than all those other guys". The first thing he mentions when discussing Robert E. howard is that as soon as he came across his writing he was noticing all the "historical inaccuracies", like Romans ridding saddles with styrrups etc. If you look hard enough you can see a little admiration for Howard's work as he writes about it and all, but you have to squint pretty hard. He does acknowledge that many fans were not very pleased with him and what he did.
Excellent video! I've really enjoyed your conversations about De Camp and Conan. It's very balanced. I'm a fan of De Camp in general, and like that he promoted his meal ticket, but him mixing/jumbling Conan and Conan pastiche in the same books.
Posiadam w jednej ksiazce pt Wszystkie dokonania Sherlocka Holmesa - wydane u nas w Polsce - a poszczególne wydania powiesci Sherloka wydawane są od przeszlo 100 lat w setkach wydań 👋👋👋📚📚📚📚Pozdrowienia z Europy 👍Hovarda tez wszystko wydano i mojego uwielbianego ERB również 👋👋👋
I agree. There's a "modern" equivalent in the way that some authors have died and their estate/publishers have tried to keep their characters alive by getting other authors to write new stories. I'm thinking in particular of Robert B Parker (Spenser, Jesse Stone etc), Ian Flemming (James Bond), Agatha Christie (Poirot, Miss Marple). I can't help thinking it's just about the money in those cases, but they are not cannon.
I think the point is that when Doyle was originally writing Holmes they were mostly short stories for magazines, and it is the same thing with Howard who was writing for the pulp magazines. I think that Decamp has been done a disservice as he kept Conan alive for many years when Howard would have been forgotten, and obviously his work doesn't have that flair that Howard's original series had - well, maybe not for the most part. However Howard was writing original work while Decamp and others were building upon that world created by Howard. I don't neccassarily think that Decamp had a lack of respect for Howard but each man was writing at a different time, for a different market. Also when the paperbacks were fisrt coming out the majority of the readers knew nothing about Conan or Howard and were discovering the character for the first time, so the Decamp stories were fine. I loved them as a kid. Same with Robert Jordan and others - they all built on this wonderful world created by Howard.
When I read Conan the Buccaneer a few weeks ago, it occurred to me that the book was almost pure pastiche, in that there are no story elements that aren't copied from other Conan stories. We have the nubile princess waking from a bad dream (A Witch Shall Be Born), the wicked sorcerer seeking a magical artifact (Hour of the Dragon), the statue that comes to life (Shadows in the Moonlight), innocent girl tortured by evil queen (Red Nails), etc. I also think it should have taken place earlier in the chronology.
The House of Silk and Moriarty by Anthony Horowitz are, hands down, the best Holmes novels not written by Doyle, in my opinion. He also did the same with James Bond. His recent trilogy is excellent. He just gets these characters.
I like The House of Silk, but I thought it was obvious what the House of Silk was. But if we're taking about straight pastiches, rather than ones that include s-f themes or Lovecraftian monsters, etc, then Horowitz certainly ranks high.
Great stuff to think about! I wonder where the line gets drawn for these characters versus, say, an original comic character. We wouldn’t consider modern Batman stories Bill Finger pastiche (but boy would they be better if that’s what the writers were going for instead of the ridiculousness they’re churning out now). Would there be a point where so many Conan and Holmes stories are done (maybe we’ve already passed it) that we can solely judge them as being faithful or not to the character instead of thinking of them as pastiches? As in, say, modern Batman again (bleh). Lots of good stuff to think about in the video. Thanks!
Well said. Pastiche is a really good way to learn how to write, but it probably ought not be published unless it's exceptionally good. Good pastiche fiction ought to accurately reflect an author's style in addition to borrowing their characters and settings.
Holmes was used in pastiches before Doyle was even dead. The French writer Maurice Le Blanc used Holmes as an antagonist to his character Arsene Lupin who was the world's greatest thief. Le Blanc later had to change the name of the character because Doyle, or maybe his estate, threaten to sue. The books where the Holmes character appeared where Arsene Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes and The Hollow Needle. The first was pretty good, but the second Lupin became a Mary Sue that rode rough shod over Holmes which annoyed me. Ironically, nowadays Arsene Lupin is mostly known for being the grandfather of anime character Lupin the Third. I actually wrote a pastiche of the original where he battles an enemy of Holmes (not Moriarity.) I doubt it was as good as either Le Blanc or Doyle but I tried to do it with respect. Conan the Cimmerian certainly was not well served by his pastiches though. Howard had an energy and intensity in his prose that even other talented writers could not imitate.
The only pastiches I've read are Philip Marlowe books by Robert B. Parker, John Banville, and Lawrence Osborne. None felt like Chandler's Marlowe, but the best novel of the lot was Osborne's Only to Sleep - possibly because it's so distanced from the original books, with an aged Marlowe in the 1980s.
You hit the nail on the head - it's fan fiction. I have no problem with it either, but if they torture their readers, they deserve a drive by style review.
Now that would be a real challenge... far more difficult than a wishy-washy 500 book read what you own challenge. Read every story ever published about Sherlock Holmes! The must be thousands by now. Like you, I can appreciate the good ones. I've even edited a few Holmes books. But read them all? Impossible I fear.
"Sunbird" by Neil Gaiman is an interesting pastiche short story. It's not a pastiche of a character, but rather of R.A. Lafferty's storytelling style. It's the best pastiche I've read (better even than some of Lafferty's work) (actually, it's also my favorite Gaiman story, too).
This year I have been reading War of the Worlds pastiches. Next month I will be reading a novel that tells the story from the POV of the crew of the Thunder Child which I think is one of the most exciting events in WOTW. I have previously read Sherlock Holmes’ War of the Worlds. I have read many other Sherlock pastiches. Other pastiches I have read are ones set in Oz (including Philip Jose Farmer’s Barnstormer of Oz) and also ones set in Wonderland.
There is some really good Holmes pastiche, no doubt about it. But you really have to pick it out of the mountains of junk. The much-maligned August Derleth produced some of the best in the form of Solar Pons, as I'm sure you're aware.
Would you say that Alan Moore's version of Swamp Thing is "pastiche"? If so, surely that would prove that the original idea can still be eclipsed by a clever writer?
Erie recently sent me what I think are my first two pastiche novels…. Tarzan! Agreed about Spock. I actually like the new character, but it’s no Spock!
Well. That’s the first time the dictionary has appeared in one of your videos. I was beginning to think that Stately Vaughan Manor was without that bookshelf essential. Regarding the pastiche fiction about Roger. Yes, it is rather weak, with titles such as: Roger Ho-Tep and the Jewels of Osh-Buh-Gosh Roger Ho-Tep Meets Dracula, over Coffee Roger Ho-Tep on the Oregon Trail A Roger Ho-Tep Christmas at Thrush Green
I grew up with the pastiches -- it was all that I could get my hands on. I thought it was really good -- until I read the actual REH and ERB stories. I still like some of Lin Carter's work; probably because it is familiar.
Glad you mentioned Spock as i look at "modern" Star Trek and Star Wars as pastich fiction. Roddenberry and Lucas knew what they were doing. These writers are basically writing fan fiction. Blaah!!! Bah!!! 😂😂😂😮
Have you read Scott Oden's Conan pastiche, "Shadow of Vengeance?" It's become my favourite pastiche. And I won't spoil anything, but he does come close to capturing REH's vibe. Perhaps after you're done punishing yourself with de Camp and Carter, perhaps try out Oden's book. It's available digitally, and it's 2$ Novella.
I dunno exactly where the "respect" line is with pastiche stuff. It's hard to say. With Holmes it seems more distinct with people that the ACD stories are the "real" ones, whereas with Conan people don't appear to respect the primacy of the originator as much (although aficionados are even more hardcore). I'd attribute that jointly to Carter/deCamp and Marvel. There seems to be an element of contempt for pulps and their predecessors that allows for monkeying with them in ways that one might not do with, say, Jean ValJean or Harry Palmer. Unless your name is Alan Moore of course, in which case you kill all of them off.
And of course it is worth noting that the story most famously associated with Conan is a pastiche. The one that gets quoted every day. I think you know the one I mean.
There have been around 25 or 30 James Bond pastiche novels since Ian Fleming died in 1964 - and all of them are pretty bad (some horrendously so) except for the recent trilogy by Anthony Horowitz… They’re surprisingly good!
The big difference between the Holmes pastiches and the Conan pastiches is that if I want to write my version of, say, the Giant Rat of Sumatra, I can do so and get it published if it's good enough, despite the fact that several other versions of that story already exist. There's one book version of , for example, Conan at Venarium (I'm omitting the comics) and it's as if , that being the case, no-one else can get their take on it published. As you say, all Conan pastiches are equal in the sense that none are by Howard, so anyone should be able to do their version of how Conan became King, or Belit's back story, etc, and it could be published if it's good.
With Conan at least, maybe because of the Ace books, there's a sense of everyone gets to contribute a bit to the whole, of filling in gaps in his travels using one of the imagined timelines people have worked out. It's kind of a cool idea, even if it'll only work sporadically - different author's voices clearly don't mesh as well, and I don't think they use each other's characters, unless it's one of Howard's. I've heard the Venarium book isn't that great, and it might be good if another author felt free to try again, since it's an important "origin story" for the character. Actually it was kind of handled well in the new Titan comics, albeit briefly in one issue, but the comics feel like a tangential alternate community of pastiche, even if it's really the same thing.
Not so much sometimes it is a money cow. Tom Clancy has long been dead and books about his characters are still being publish with his name on them same with Robert Ludlum. It has been a major thing in the last few years they not only continue writing stories based on a dead writers they slap the writers name.
@@stephennootens916 the original writer's name in huge print (usually with a " 's " attached), and the actual writer in much smaller font. Might fool some people if they don't look closely, or don't consider the actual writer beyond the product.
@@MagusMarquillin It is so bad I have heard some big name authors had gone was far to write it in their wills that none that they can't slap their name on new work after their death.
A dictionary! Always showing off your Iron Age relics.
@@Falconlibrary I have this 1935 edition of Websters. I think it’s insane that an even the dictionary is under attack. This insane ideology(also known as a grift) gets its nasty little hands on everything.
Well said! You explained it so much better than I ever could. There was a distinct lack of respect on deCamp's part for Howard and his work. Thanks, Michael!
"But this is also where he was making all of his money"...Bingo! Lol! Conan the Buccaneer (and everything else de Camp wrote) can't hold a candle to Howard's writing. But I did enjoy this book as a light popcorn summer adventure set in the Hyborean world with Conan routinely chopping off heads. Good stuff Michael! Thoughtful and insightful as always!
Roger should write some pastiche.
There are pastiches and there are pastiches. Some suck. Some are mediocre. But some give us more enjoyable time with characters that we have loved to hang out with. I have spent time with some of my favorite characters(Spenser for Hire, Sherlock, Conan, Tarzan and others)written by the Not original authors that I would not have been able to do without pastiche writers. I am very thankful for the good ones.
Even when I was a young man reading those Conan paperbacks in the early 1980s I could tell the difference between the REH stories and the pastiches.
It should be firmly established from the outset that "pastiche" is not a kind of French breakfast pastry. Now with that out of the way, you nailed the essential element of a good pastiche Michael: respect for the character. And implied in that is knowledge and understanding of the character's world, knowing how far the pastiche writer can go and in which directions.
At it's best, pastiche is a tribute.
Great video Michael! I read the first book of the Cthulhu Casebooks by James Lovegrove, and I thought it was excellent.
The series you are reading is pastiched it's best by date!!!
Well said. I liked all the pastiche Conan books. Even the not so great ones. I liked the old "Official Conan Chronology." Even though it wasn't how REH wrote them. It's fun reading through Conan's life from youth to kingship and beyond.
That's a good condition Conan paperback you got there. Age, used bookstore new price, and original buyer scribblings inside the covers usually accompany such items.
Mine is yellow.
I am old enough to recall that in the 1960's, L.- Spraguie de Camp was a very highly regarded SciFi writer and Hpward was not even respectable in critical at the time- Times change
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts about literary pastiche. I personally have always associated pastiche with a tribute to a certain writer's style or, I guess, particular milieu, and not necessarily using their characters. Much of the early work of writers, especially, comes off as pastiches of their influences, and that's not at all surprising. Early Lovecraft sometimes feels like Poe or Dunsany pastiche. Early Stephen King was pastiching everybody from Lovecraft to Robert Bloch and beyond. The writer Philip Jose Farmer did a lot of pretty famous pastiches of other writers.
Using Holmes, Conan, etc -- yes, it's pastiche, but more appropriately (I think) is taht other more contemporary term you used, "Fan fiction".
Speaking of Sprague's Conan pastiches, I haven't actually read any myself, but I did read most of Sprague's autobiography in preparation fora podcast about his book Lest Darkness Fall. he does come across as being quite full of himself, but also kind of self-aware in his own way -- bit like William Shatner in that sense, maybe. He's not above making fun at his own expense but at the end of the day, "Sprague" is still "kinda better than all those other guys". The first thing he mentions when discussing Robert E. howard is that as soon as he came across his writing he was noticing all the "historical inaccuracies", like Romans ridding saddles with styrrups etc. If you look hard enough you can see a little admiration for Howard's work as he writes about it and all, but you have to squint pretty hard. He does acknowledge that many fans were not very pleased with him and what he did.
Excellent video! I've really enjoyed your conversations about De Camp and Conan. It's very balanced. I'm a fan of De Camp in general, and like that he promoted his meal ticket, but him mixing/jumbling Conan and Conan pastiche in the same books.
Posiadam w jednej ksiazce pt Wszystkie dokonania Sherlocka Holmesa - wydane u nas w Polsce - a poszczególne wydania powiesci Sherloka wydawane są od przeszlo 100 lat w setkach wydań 👋👋👋📚📚📚📚Pozdrowienia z Europy 👍Hovarda tez wszystko wydano i mojego uwielbianego ERB również 👋👋👋
Some of my favorite stories are pastiches; the Solar Pons stories by August Derleth are fun!
I agree. There's a "modern" equivalent in the way that some authors have died and their estate/publishers have tried to keep their characters alive by getting other authors to write new stories. I'm thinking in particular of Robert B Parker (Spenser, Jesse Stone etc), Ian Flemming (James Bond), Agatha Christie (Poirot, Miss Marple). I can't help thinking it's just about the money in those cases, but they are not cannon.
All those are great books that I still enjoy.
I can think of at least two characters who may be the subjects of even more pastiche than the ones you name - Jesus and King Arthur.
I have an awful time with pastiche fiction.
As far as Star Trek is concerned, I will paraphrase Jean-Luc Picard with: "THERE ARE FIVE SERIES!"
I think the point is that when Doyle was originally writing Holmes they were mostly short stories for magazines, and it is the same thing with Howard who was writing for the pulp magazines. I think that Decamp has been done a disservice as he kept Conan alive for many years when Howard would have been forgotten, and obviously his work doesn't have that flair that Howard's original series had - well, maybe not for the most part. However Howard was writing original work while Decamp and others were building upon that world created by Howard. I don't neccassarily think that Decamp had a lack of respect for Howard but each man was writing at a different time, for a different market. Also when the paperbacks were fisrt coming out the majority of the readers knew nothing about Conan or Howard and were discovering the character for the first time, so the Decamp stories were fine. I loved them as a kid. Same with Robert Jordan and others - they all built on this wonderful world created by Howard.
Solid analysis and good points of comparison with Sherlock Holmes pastiche.
When I read Conan the Buccaneer a few weeks ago, it occurred to me that the book was almost pure pastiche, in that there are no story elements that aren't copied from other Conan stories. We have the nubile princess waking from a bad dream (A Witch Shall Be Born), the wicked sorcerer seeking a magical artifact (Hour of the Dragon), the statue that comes to life (Shadows in the Moonlight), innocent girl tortured by evil queen (Red Nails), etc. I also think it should have taken place earlier in the chronology.
@@markditoro8836 I just read Buccaneer and had exactly the same thoughts.
The House of Silk and Moriarty by Anthony Horowitz are, hands down, the best Holmes novels not written by Doyle, in my opinion. He also did the same with James Bond. His recent trilogy is excellent. He just gets these characters.
I read his first Bond book and it was great. He gets Ian Fleming's Bond right which is harder to do than one would think.
I like The House of Silk, but I thought it was obvious what the House of Silk was. But if we're taking about straight pastiches, rather than ones that include s-f themes or Lovecraftian monsters, etc, then Horowitz certainly ranks high.
Great stuff to think about! I wonder where the line gets drawn for these characters versus, say, an original comic character. We wouldn’t consider modern Batman stories Bill Finger pastiche (but boy would they be better if that’s what the writers were going for instead of the ridiculousness they’re churning out now). Would there be a point where so many Conan and Holmes stories are done (maybe we’ve already passed it) that we can solely judge them as being faithful or not to the character instead of thinking of them as pastiches? As in, say, modern Batman again (bleh). Lots of good stuff to think about in the video. Thanks!
Well said. Pastiche is a really good way to learn how to write, but it probably ought not be published unless it's exceptionally good. Good pastiche fiction ought to accurately reflect an author's style in addition to borrowing their characters and settings.
Holmes was used in pastiches before Doyle was even dead. The French writer Maurice Le Blanc used Holmes as an antagonist to his character Arsene Lupin who was the world's greatest thief. Le Blanc later had to change the name of the character because Doyle, or maybe his estate, threaten to sue. The books where the Holmes character appeared where Arsene Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes and The Hollow Needle. The first was pretty good, but the second Lupin became a Mary Sue that rode rough shod over Holmes which annoyed me. Ironically, nowadays Arsene Lupin is mostly known for being the grandfather of anime character Lupin the Third. I actually wrote a pastiche of the original where he battles an enemy of Holmes (not Moriarity.) I doubt it was as good as either Le Blanc or Doyle but I tried to do it with respect.
Conan the Cimmerian certainly was not well served by his pastiches though. Howard had an energy and intensity in his prose that even other talented writers could not imitate.
The only pastiches I've read are Philip Marlowe books by Robert B. Parker, John Banville, and Lawrence Osborne. None felt like Chandler's Marlowe, but the best novel of the lot was Osborne's Only to Sleep - possibly because it's so distanced from the original books, with an aged Marlowe in the 1980s.
You hit the nail on the head - it's fan fiction. I have no problem with it either, but if they torture their readers, they deserve a drive by style review.
Now that would be a real challenge... far more difficult than a wishy-washy 500 book read what you own challenge. Read every story ever published about Sherlock Holmes! The must be thousands by now. Like you, I can appreciate the good ones. I've even edited a few Holmes books. But read them all? Impossible I fear.
@@davebrzeski I wouldn’t even attempt it.
"Sunbird" by Neil Gaiman is an interesting pastiche short story. It's not a pastiche of a character, but rather of R.A. Lafferty's storytelling style. It's the best pastiche I've read (better even than some of Lafferty's work) (actually, it's also my favorite Gaiman story, too).
This year I have been reading War of the Worlds pastiches. Next month I will be reading a novel that tells the story from the POV of the crew of the Thunder Child which I think is one of the most exciting events in WOTW. I have previously read Sherlock Holmes’ War of the Worlds. I have read many other Sherlock pastiches. Other pastiches I have read are ones set in Oz (including Philip Jose Farmer’s Barnstormer of Oz) and also ones set in Wonderland.
There is some really good Holmes pastiche, no doubt about it. But you really have to pick it out of the mountains of junk. The much-maligned August Derleth produced some of the best in the form of Solar Pons, as I'm sure you're aware.
We all want to read Roger’s Pastiche fiction 😮
Would you say that Alan Moore's version of Swamp Thing is "pastiche"? If so, surely that would prove that the original idea can still be eclipsed by a clever writer?
Comic books are different. Different writers and artists have "runs" on different titles, some good, some mediocre, some suck.
Erie recently sent me what I think are my first two pastiche novels…. Tarzan! Agreed about Spock. I actually like the new character, but it’s no Spock!
How many different people have written Batman stories ?
Well. That’s the first time the dictionary has appeared in one of your videos. I was beginning to think that Stately Vaughan Manor was without that bookshelf essential.
Regarding the pastiche fiction about Roger. Yes, it is rather weak, with titles such as:
Roger Ho-Tep and the Jewels of Osh-Buh-Gosh
Roger Ho-Tep Meets Dracula, over Coffee
Roger Ho-Tep on the Oregon Trail
A Roger Ho-Tep Christmas at Thrush Green
I've developed a charitable relation to pastiche because I read some decent ERB and Howard pastiches.
I enjoyed Caleb Carr’s Sherlock Holmes novel very much. 🔥
I didn't like Conan being described as 'burly' in Buccaneer. The game was up!
😆
I grew up with the pastiches -- it was all that I could get my hands on. I thought it was really good -- until I read the actual REH and ERB stories. I still like some of Lin Carter's work; probably because it is familiar.
Glad you mentioned Spock as i look at "modern" Star Trek and Star Wars as pastich fiction. Roddenberry and Lucas knew what they were doing. These writers are basically writing fan fiction. Blaah!!! Bah!!! 😂😂😂😮
Did you read the Robert Jordan’s Conan pastiche? I heard it’s good.
Thanks!
I understand the best Conan not written by Howard is Robert Jordan
Have you read Scott Oden's Conan pastiche, "Shadow of Vengeance?" It's become my favourite pastiche. And I won't spoil anything, but he does come close to capturing REH's vibe.
Perhaps after you're done punishing yourself with de Camp and Carter, perhaps try out Oden's book. It's available digitally, and it's 2$ Novella.
Scott Oden tends to be awesome so I’m not surprised.
So, by your logic, every Fantastic Four story you read post Lee & Kirby is pastiche fiction? Interesting ...
What about Karl Edward Wagner's Conan book?
So, fanfiction.
I dunno exactly where the "respect" line is with pastiche stuff. It's hard to say. With Holmes it seems more distinct with people that the ACD stories are the "real" ones, whereas with Conan people don't appear to respect the primacy of the originator as much (although aficionados are even more hardcore). I'd attribute that jointly to Carter/deCamp and Marvel. There seems to be an element of contempt for pulps and their predecessors that allows for monkeying with them in ways that one might not do with, say, Jean ValJean or Harry Palmer. Unless your name is Alan Moore of course, in which case you kill all of them off.
And of course it is worth noting that the story most famously associated with Conan is a pastiche. The one that gets quoted every day. I think you know the one I mean.
What are you driving at, Mike? 😅
I think all pastiche fiction started as fan fic.
There have been around 25 or 30 James Bond pastiche novels since Ian Fleming died in 1964 - and all of them are pretty bad (some horrendously so) except for the recent trilogy by Anthony Horowitz… They’re surprisingly good!
The big difference between the Holmes pastiches and the Conan pastiches is that if I want to write my version of, say, the Giant Rat of Sumatra, I can do so and get it published if it's good enough, despite the fact that several other versions of that story already exist. There's one book version of , for example, Conan at Venarium (I'm omitting the comics) and it's as if , that being the case, no-one else can get their take on it published. As you say, all Conan pastiches are equal in the sense that none are by Howard, so anyone should be able to do their version of how Conan became King, or Belit's back story, etc, and it could be published if it's good.
With Conan at least, maybe because of the Ace books, there's a sense of everyone gets to contribute a bit to the whole, of filling in gaps in his travels using one of the imagined timelines people have worked out. It's kind of a cool idea, even if it'll only work sporadically - different author's voices clearly don't mesh as well, and I don't think they use each other's characters, unless it's one of Howard's.
I've heard the Venarium book isn't that great, and it might be good if another author felt free to try again, since it's an important "origin story" for the character. Actually it was kind of handled well in the new Titan comics, albeit briefly in one issue, but the comics feel like a tangential alternate community of pastiche, even if it's really the same thing.
Very curious if you've read the current Conan comics by Jim Zub?
Lin Carter and Sprague also changed Howard’s original text to fit what they were doing with the pastiches. Disgusting.
yeah I don't like the de Camp intros where he disrespects Howard and his writing
pastiche = knock-off
Pastiche can be style as well. Sergio Leone made pastiche of American westerns.
Not so much sometimes it is a money cow. Tom Clancy has long been dead and books about his characters are still being publish with his name on them same with Robert Ludlum. It has been a major thing in the last few years they not only continue writing stories based on a dead writers they slap the writers name.
@@stephennootens916 the original writer's name in huge print (usually with a " 's " attached), and the actual writer in much smaller font. Might fool some people if they don't look closely, or don't consider the actual writer beyond the product.
@@MagusMarquillin It is so bad I have heard some big name authors had gone was far to write it in their wills that none that they can't slap their name on new work after their death.
Xfiles is Sherlock & Dr Watson.
We all want to read Roger’s Pastiche fiction 😮