Italian Soldiers and service members, we want to hear from you, how accurate was your AR 70/90? In speaking with an Italian Paratrooper (Matteo), he told us that the cherished quality of the AR70/90 is it's reliability and simplicity. He said that the rifle wasn't bad for 250m targets. "it's a rifle that you can count on, I used an SCP variant as a paratrooper and it always fired when I needed it to. I've personally destroyed 2x ARX160. One malfunction and the other where I broke the stock hinge area." "You can throw, hit jump and use [the AR 70/90] even like a shovel and it will not break. During airborne jumps, I saw an ARX160 break in half... but when you have the SCP (AR 70/90 para variant), your leg is what will break in half instead!" So Italian Service Memebers, tell us!
arx 160 is junk, here in italy we make a lot of jokes about the "tonno" (tunna) rifle, expecially the fact that it cost an absurd ammount of money for the army that are totally out of mind for a rifle with that great ammount of polymers in it, beretta is making too much money at the expenses of the state and so, the cityzen.
I was issued the SC70/90 version for mountain troops. Really sturdy and reliable rifle, easy to maintain and disassemble. Yes, the carryhandle and bipod are a bit bulky and redundant, so I took them off and carried them in my backpack basically all the time. It looked more FNCesque (therefore cooler) that way, and of course having a couple ounces less to carry in your arms was definitely a pro. Also, it was easier to aim without that ugly handle in the way.
I have used the standard fixed stock rifle for one year, and it was reliable and accurate (battlefield accuracy) up to 200-250 meters. ARX is not robust as this one.
@@matteoorlandi856 Maybe it is just me, but it seems that almost every new design (from ALL manufacturers) is absurdly priced, and arguably not as durable as the stuff that came out during the Cold War. This is only my opinion, but it seems like a lot more care and consideration was made for these types of things when it was thought that another big, giant multi-nation "world war" was just around the corner.
When you watch an AK under slow motion, you can actually see the opposite force from the gas pushing the piston at the gas block. It pushes the barrel down and whips it around. It's really as simple as having moving parts over/connected to your barrel beyond the receiver. AR15 does not have this, so it's easier to make generally more accurate.
I loved the can of genuine Italian cuisine you had sitting next to you while doing this. You really do your detailed research, and it shows with your homage to whichever country's rifle your using.
If it weren't for live ammo, we'd have a more lively conversation with a box of Franzia wine with an invitation to you if you brought your favorite chucky cheese pizza pie.
I never served, but all my friends who did attested to the fact that the 70/90 is a battlefield gun: highly reliable and nigh indestructible. As for accuracy, they told me that they consistently trained at 250mt and often 300, and it was considered pretty optimal, but beyond that it was supposed to be for suppression only.
Worth noting that when I was in the Canadian Army, the 20' C7 was doctrinally only considered effective to 300m in the hands of an individual and 600m in the hands of a section of soldiers engaging a singular target. Obviously, the C7 can stretch its legs further, but militaries generally recognize that 300m is the upper limit for effective rifle fire in combat. I'm certain that the 70/90 is less accurate than AR-15-pattern rifles, but even if it is, a 3.5-4MOA rifle is still good enough out to 300m. Anyway, the 70/90 is cool as hell.
Currently Serving in Italy, used It for a while. Extremely reliable -extremely heavy...a Rugged rifle. Talking about precision, i Remember shooting an entire Mag in a 3" Square. The distance was 100 meters (prone shooting with the issued bipod) and i'm not as good as Mr. Chan: i suppose that something went "wrong" in the assembly process. Not that the rifle Is capable of assolute precision: It was designed and adopted while the Italian army was made vastly by conscripts....everybody can understand that (with Italian's defense budgets, which are significantly lower than USA defense budgets) we were looking for a reliable, simple and enough precise rifle. Great fan of yours, keep shooting! (Hope i wrote in an undestandable english...it's been a while!)
fun fact: the carry handle is detacheable and not integral to the rear sight. It can be replaced by a picatinny section to install optics/dots. In fact, if you remove the carry handle, the rifle looks like a slightly chonkier FNC
however the carry handle does have sights on it...but they are weird and shitty imo...front and rear sight on a carry handle.im guessing they were for very close range.
I always remember the old mechanics joke about engine design. The American says we will build it with 25 parts and make it cheap. The Japanese engineer states we will use 35 parts and make it with precision. The German says he can do it with 18 parts and make it sturdy. The Italian designer uses 50 parts but it will be beautiful.
Beautifully made parts, assembled into the most unreliable p.o.s. you've ever seen. That's not true though. The parts themselves are typically poorly made.
Here in Italy most of those who have used the AR70/90 for service regret it's been replaced by the ARX160. It was heavier but reliable and indestructible, features that don't seem to matter much anymore. Several specimens are now available for sale to the public, transformed into semi-auto in accordance with Italian law. The prices, however, are unfortunately quite high
@@einsteincat5298 let's be honest here: all armies have horror stories about rifles that might not exactly be accurate. IDK if the ARX is good or bad but it's EXTREMELY typical for soldiers to diss the "modern gun". Look at the G36.
Ciao! My father has one demilitarised AR70/90 (semi auto only) with a very nice barrel. It can shoot decent 2 inches groups with iron sights at 100 meters. It’s a heavy rifle but it’s really rugged and sturdy and recoil is very soft. Greetings from Italy! Felice anno nuovo!
I purchased my AR70 back in 1994. Its one hell of an accurate rifle I can still remember trying to find mags back then. I paid $300 bucks for one at a gun show, it was the only one I could find after searching for 3 years. I am gonna go dig my AR 70 out today. Its been awhile since I have touched it.
I owned an FNC sporter .223. Great rifle with good accuracy. I shot it mostly suppressed with a 4-16x scope on it. It had a terrible factory trigger with a pull weight similar to the factory trigger in my FN Scar 17s.
oh i'm ashamed of it if you try it! It tastes like MRE "italian food", which I used to keep between my IBA and my body when on patrol to warm up and eat when we were pulling security. Side note, the medics don't like that because if you get shot there's red sauce mixed into stuff.
Serving mid '90 in a Bersaglieri Rgt, after the basic training with the BM59 Alpine variant ( wich I loved), the newbe SC 70/90 was a great surprise, the one I got was brand new from factory, It was a rough, reliable and easy to disassembly and maintenance, a masculine rifle, smoot to shoot and quite accurate , I've seen guys at range shooting for the first time in theirs life and having a 15 to 20 hits on target on 30 round magazine at all the three distances 100/200 and even 300m, I think It was great for a conscripted personnel issued rifle
i don't know, probably the rifle would perform better with 62 grains bullets, because here in italy it's a well known fact that they shoot better with 62 grains...
@@matteoorlandi856 yes you are right 1/7 twist , perfect with 62 grs , specially over 150/200 yds , it a good chanel and great shooter but I do not understand why they have used 55 grs bullet , mamma mia ! 😃
@@Paddy-zn4oo - Falling for the usual "L85 suxs, hUr dUr Hur" line eh? Ever used one, especially the A2 or A3 variants? The L85 was always an accurate rifle, it's now matured into a reliable one too and has a proven track record in combat. What is often forgotten by L85 detractors (who largely have never even touched one for real) is that the AR15 platform also had a terrible reputation when it was first released, but unlike the L85, the AR15 platform has been produced in such large numbers that issues were identified and dealt with sooner. I've put thousands of rounds through various members of the SA80 family and I've had few issues that wouldn't also be expected from any other military-issued Western weapon system.
Hey, it's a pretty unique looking rifle in my eyes and in spite of the difficulties getting it under par, I'll bet that with better wind conditions, it'll handle things better. But you done did good shootin', only hope to see more from our beloved 9 Hole Duo *Also that subtle pained look from Josh as you consumed Chef Boyardee made my day*
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography unless the crown has been destroyed by overzealous cleaning, a cigarette box cut up and used as shim between the stock and receiver would tighten up 98% of them.
Ne ho uno ex Carabinieri Tuscania, penso sia uno tra i meglio fucili mai realizzati, pesante ma di ottima meccanica. Il pistone a corsa lunga è una garanzia.
PASA PARK on a windy day gets swirls. The wind goes both directions at the same time. Left to right at the line right to left at the 600 yard line. Not often but sometimes it cancels its self out. When it doesn't it's difficult.
I think the above average accuracy of the AR-15 comes from its use of a barrel extension that is threaded on the barrel and then pinned. The bolt head spaces off the extension rather than a trunnion or receiver which is common in many other firearms. Its much easier to machine and achieve tight tolerances on the barrel extension which can be discarded during QA than it is for something like a receiver or trunnion which is a much more integral part of the firearm.
The gas piston being directly in line with the barrel does wonders for it, too. Pretty much all other autos run the piston parallel to the barrel, which means the gas system pushes the barrel in some direction.
I think the rifle was a bit handicapped by being a kit gun, non italian mil spec in barrel and other parts and by ammos. Italian Army uses ammunitons loaded with 62 grs. ss109 ball and, i think, a hotter load then the Magtech which, as i know, are quite low in performance. In nearly 30 years of shooting i never remember to have seen those vortex in air caused by flying bullets. If i'm not wrong for quite a years, in the '90 our army used Hirtenberger ammos in their AR, and then Fiocchi. It would be nice to try with similar loads. I' d like to see the readings of seedometer on those Magtech ammos but i bet they are too slow and too light for that wind. Anyway, though a cousin of the swiss StG-90 the italian one is a cheaper and less refined rifle. A good rifle for WW3, robust and reliable but not an expensive and elegant rifle as the SIG.
That "vortex" is just swirl from atmospherics and the light being in the right direction, if you've never encountered it, then you've not shot in many varied conditions at long range, you see it all the time depending on lighting and air pressure with good glass. It has nothing to do with the ammo.
From what I've seen in chronograph tests, Magtech 62 grain has pretty similar velocities to SS109/M855, so I assume it's pretty close to NATO 5.56 pressures. Its not like he was shooting Fiocci or Wolf. But again, that's their 62 gr load.
Also, they used Magtech 62 grain in their M16A4 video and it matched the BDC on the carry handle perfectly, it was one of their best runs with iron sights to date for any rifle.
Yikes.... safest place to be is directly in front of the iron sights at 500 yards or more on a windy day, lol... Still, it seemed to do pretty well within that 400 yard envelope, those 55 grainers were all over the place in that crosswind.
That's always been the case for 55gr, especially with flip sights. See the Tavor, the M16A1, the M4, etc. It just drops off drastically after 400. 62 has about a 100m longer distance before it starts getting rough.
Ar-70/90s are optimized for ss190/m885 so maybe try it with 62 grns next time 👍still I wouldn’t expect amazing accuracy out of a giant two lug long stroke rifle, it’s built for reliability and durability
I doubt it would have made much difference, so much as the flip sights. Henry has had trouble with all flip sight rifles - para FAL, M16A1, Galil, as well as red dots past 300 meters, for obvious reasons.
There is one important thing to consider: your Ar70/90 is not original due to the Us laws. It is assembled from a part kit that it can't be the same as a factory made gun. It doesn't had the same quality control as the Beretta made rifles so the precision is worse. I can assure you, being italian and speaking to many friends who use this rifle at the range, that the original beretta rifle performs much better than yours (a fan of you channel and a competitive shooter claimed watching your video: "i'm a worse shooter than him but I can do much better with my original ar 70/90"). Anyway, love your channel, keep going!
Those who have never been on a weeks long trip away from home that was not a holiday, will not comprehend how awesome a can of chunky soup or Chef Boyardee is after MRE's for days on end.
A bit of an odd question, but what would be y'all's thoughts on branching out to different styles of firearms? Is there a possibility shotguns (pump or semi-auto) or lever action firearms? I think it would be a fun watch to see you guys break them down! I'm loving the content you guys work so hard on, keep up the awesome work(:
Josh you need a bit of distance to the microphone when out on the range. If it's clipping that can be improved later on by adjusting the level. This won't happen with a well adjusted limiter and you can have a base level for your videos.
This rifle was born from a collaboration between SIG and Beretta in the 70s. SIG insisted on the roller locking, Beretta did not, only to then agree with Beretta. After the divorce between the two companies, the AR 70/90 and the SIG 550 were born, which is practically the Swiss version. I used it during my military service in former Yugoslavia, and I can say that apart from the weight, it was a good rifle.
A true battle field rifle. Ultimately I prefer reliability over accuracy and this rifle for a 5.56mm is one of the best. Still prefer the Swiss rifles but this ugly mutt always had a place whenever I seen one. I am intrigued though what the results had been if you ran 62 or 77 gr projectiles through this beast. No need for a video but if you guys did do it I would love to hear about the result.
A well balanced review, as usual, allow me to say. Interesting and well present without a hint of bias, which is difficult especially these day. Well done and keep these videos coming 😄😄😄
That's a really good illustration of why wind drift and accuracy matter- if that had been a higher BC round or if the rifle had shot tighter it would have been a different story. Take a 5" group and shift it a quarter target- no big deal. A 20" group on the other hand- all of the sudden you miss more than you hit. Also have to wonder if that thing opens up significantly when its warm....
I’ve used a 70/90 along with a M16A1 (both are avaible to civilians here in Italy) and they performed the same with Fiocchi, Sellier Bellot and American Eagle 55 FMJ. With (cheap) handloads both were 2/2.5 MOA rifles while they were 3.5/5 MOA with commercial ammo. The M16A1 were much lighter then the Beretta. Now I own a 550 that is accurate like an AR15, sturdy like Ar70/90 and reliable like an AK.
Air is a current, at Distance bullets can be forced down and up, and sideways, basically it is a 360 degree game with atmosphere. The farther you go out and as velocity decreases, you get the kind of effects you saw at 500.
So what is the barrel twist of this Beretta AR70/90? 🤷🏻♂️ I have a Beretta AR70/223 import with a factory 1:12 twist barrel which has poor accuracy with 55 grain M193 ammo.☹️ I put a 4-16X scope on it and I could not zero the scope.🤔 On the other hand, I had a VZ58 .223 which had great accuracy with a Lothar Walther barrel.🙂
It has always seemed to me that more reciprocating mass requires more weapon mass or more engineering effort to achieve the same accuracy as something like an M16.
And the HK 416 isn't exactly designed or engineered as a piston gun, they basically slapped an anvil on the bcg in place of the gas key and called it a day.
I've been debating on building a 70/90 since it's got that weird Cold War aesthetic. A SAR80 is also on the list! Have you considered an AR-180 on the review to compare piston driven 5.56 rifles? I've got an early Costa Mesa that I'd be happy to loan to the show!
My first centerfire rifle was a 03A3 Springfield. It was a 4 moa rifle, and it was a bolt gun. Most of the people who buy a AR70 want it because it's a AR70 not for outstanding accuracy.
what barrel was used an ess bros or serbu barrel? just curious if there would be a difference. have not accuracy tested mine as i dont have a range long enough here
On the note of barrels, Many cheap AR barrels are good accuracy, however alot of the weird kit specific barrels are not made to the same spec. Take for example alot of the early AK barrels made. They were in many cases 1/10th the hardness of an original barrel. Sometimes US barrels are more accurate, but they also go the other way. Also using 55 grain doesn't help when it comes to the wind. I think the elevation misses could have been wind as well, being carried up or down by a tail wind.
Can you please try to shoot a machine gun at that range with a stabilized camera? It would be really interesting to see the spreading pattern with different length of bursts, and it would be also very interested if you places a camera at 500 yards mark to see how it sounds to be pinned down by a machine gun at that distance.
![🥇 SG 550 (Swiss Army Rifle) to 500yds: Practical Accuracy [Stgw 90 - PE 90]](/img/1.gif)
Italian Soldiers and service members, we want to hear from you, how accurate was your AR 70/90?
In speaking with an Italian Paratrooper (Matteo), he told us that the cherished quality of the AR70/90 is it's reliability and simplicity. He said that the rifle wasn't bad for 250m targets.
"it's a rifle that you can count on, I used an SCP variant as a paratrooper and it always fired when I needed it to. I've personally destroyed 2x ARX160. One malfunction and the other where I broke the stock hinge area."
"You can throw, hit jump and use [the AR 70/90] even like a shovel and it will not break. During airborne jumps, I saw an ARX160 break in half... but when you have the SCP (AR 70/90 para variant), your leg is what will break in half instead!"
So Italian Service Memebers, tell us!
arx 160 is junk, here in italy we make a lot of jokes about the "tonno" (tunna) rifle, expecially the fact that it cost an absurd ammount of money for the army that are totally out of mind for a rifle with that great ammount of polymers in it, beretta is making too much money at the expenses of the state and so, the cityzen.
I was issued the SC70/90 version for mountain troops. Really sturdy and reliable rifle, easy to maintain and disassemble.
Yes, the carryhandle and bipod are a bit bulky and redundant, so I took them off and carried them in my backpack basically all the time. It looked more FNCesque (therefore cooler) that way, and of course having a couple ounces less to carry in your arms was definitely a pro. Also, it was easier to aim without that ugly handle in the way.
I have used the standard fixed stock rifle for one year, and it was reliable and accurate (battlefield accuracy) up to 200-250 meters. ARX is not robust as this one.
@@matteoorlandi856 Maybe it is just me, but it seems that almost every new design (from ALL manufacturers) is absurdly priced, and arguably not as durable as the stuff that came out during the Cold War.
This is only my opinion, but it seems like a lot more care and consideration was made for these types of things when it was thought that another big, giant multi-nation "world war" was just around the corner.
When you watch an AK under slow motion, you can actually see the opposite force from the gas pushing the piston at the gas block. It pushes the barrel down and whips it around.
It's really as simple as having moving parts over/connected to your barrel beyond the receiver. AR15 does not have this, so it's easier to make generally more accurate.
I loved the can of genuine Italian cuisine you had sitting next to you while doing this. You really do your detailed research, and it shows with your homage to whichever country's rifle your using.
If it weren't for live ammo, we'd have a more lively conversation with a box of Franzia wine with an invitation to you if you brought your favorite chucky cheese pizza pie.
Olive Garden is the best Italian food
No no no, Throwback is authentic! Regular can is Americano bastardization!
Chef Boyardee! The master!
"It's in the tin, I don't have to heat it up."
My man! It is a shame folks just don't understand!
I never served, but all my friends who did attested to the fact that the 70/90 is a battlefield gun: highly reliable and nigh indestructible. As for accuracy, they told me that they consistently trained at 250mt and often 300, and it was considered pretty optimal, but beyond that it was supposed to be for suppression only.
Worth noting that when I was in the Canadian Army, the 20' C7 was doctrinally only considered effective to 300m in the hands of an individual and 600m in the hands of a section of soldiers engaging a singular target. Obviously, the C7 can stretch its legs further, but militaries generally recognize that 300m is the upper limit for effective rifle fire in combat. I'm certain that the 70/90 is less accurate than AR-15-pattern rifles, but even if it is, a 3.5-4MOA rifle is still good enough out to 300m. Anyway, the 70/90 is cool as hell.
Love how we can see bullet trail when the image is stabilized. Awesome.
Currently Serving in Italy, used It for a while.
Extremely reliable -extremely heavy...a Rugged rifle.
Talking about precision, i Remember shooting an entire Mag in a 3" Square.
The distance was 100 meters (prone shooting with the issued bipod) and i'm not as good as Mr. Chan: i suppose that something went "wrong" in the assembly process.
Not that the rifle Is capable of assolute precision: It was designed and adopted while the Italian army was made vastly by conscripts....everybody can understand that (with Italian's defense budgets, which are significantly lower than USA defense budgets) we were looking for a reliable, simple and enough precise rifle.
Great fan of yours, keep shooting! (Hope i wrote in an undestandable english...it's been a while!)
Grazie for the feedback! I think the AR70/90 suits the Italian philosophy with conscripts well.
@@9HoleReviews indeed, a good adversary's rifle for the AK74.
I think that fake Italian canned food interfered with the rifle's operation
One of the oddest-looking iron sights I've ever seen. Quite unique, fitting for such a rifle!
fun fact: the carry handle is detacheable and not integral to the rear sight. It can be replaced by a picatinny section to install optics/dots. In fact, if you remove the carry handle, the rifle looks like a slightly chonkier FNC
nope. that's the carry handle, not the sights.
however the carry handle does have sights on it...but they are weird and shitty imo...front and rear sight on a carry handle.im guessing they were for very close range.
I always remember the old mechanics joke about engine design.
The American says we will build it with 25 parts and make it cheap. The Japanese engineer states we will use 35 parts and make it with precision. The German says he can do it with 18 parts and make it sturdy. The Italian designer uses 50 parts but it will be beautiful.
When it comes to mechanical engineering and workmanship just go to Japan, Germany or Czech Rep.
Somehow I doubt the Germans would be the one using the least parts...
The swiss says "we will build it with all of the above and 150 parts"
German would be: I need 50 parts but it also works as a refrigerator.
Beautifully made parts, assembled into the most unreliable p.o.s. you've ever seen.
That's not true though. The parts themselves are typically poorly made.
Here in Italy most of those who have used the AR70/90 for service regret it's been replaced by the ARX160. It was heavier but reliable and indestructible, features that don't seem to matter much anymore. Several specimens are now available for sale to the public, transformed into semi-auto in accordance with Italian law. The prices, however, are unfortunately quite high
Ah yes, the unholy tuna.
ARX is extraordinarily reliable more accurate lighter and allows use of optics and nv devices easiet
@@cookie5535 did you not read the pinned comment? Specifically the part where it says "on parachute jumps, I saw an ARX break in half"
AR70/90 High priced hot garbage 🗑 😒... I'd take a Arx 160 over it anyday.
@@einsteincat5298 let's be honest here: all armies have horror stories about rifles that might not exactly be accurate.
IDK if the ARX is good or bad but it's EXTREMELY typical for soldiers to diss the "modern gun". Look at the G36.
The Italians will be pissed that Chef Boyardee is near their rifle.
Well would you look at that! My service rifle (2003-2004)
@@Everythingallthetime666 was it Italy?
So how did it do in active service for you?
@@Everythingallthetime666 Italian army. This rifle was the one before the ARX 160
@@CCXRS7 this wasn't a rifle you would expect perform like a modern AR type. Up to 250 meters was pretty spot on and very reliable.
@@Everythingallthetime666 a Beretta rifle and you have to ask which nation adopted it for service?
7:13
Clanky STANAG noises make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
It's always nice when an Italian gun makes its way to your channel. 🇮🇹 💖
BM59 next? :)
9-Hole is the perfect balance of class and professionalism mixed with eating canned ravioli while talking about an Italian rifle 😁
Stabilization is a welcome addition. We can see the rounds and impacts so much better!
For kids of the early nineties this is the the "other" gun my gi joes used, classic! Great to see!
In México the Beretta 70/90 and the Arx 160 are the principal rifles in mostly all police corps in the country, local and state police.
Image stabilization is a gift from god.
Ciao! My father has one demilitarised AR70/90 (semi auto only) with a very nice barrel. It can shoot decent 2 inches groups with iron sights at 100 meters. It’s a heavy rifle but it’s really rugged and sturdy and recoil is very soft. Greetings from Italy! Felice anno nuovo!
First time ever seeing this rifle and all I can think of is a disfigured child of an FNC and an M16.
Looks like an Argentine fara 83 to me. COD Cold War vibes
It’s actually based on the Sig rifle.
Fun fact is that beretta asked colt to mfg the m16 under license.
Now that you mentioned it, it does. It looks like it has some stoner 63 in it too but that's kinda cheating, isn't it?
@@Frens03 wrong ...there was an initial collaboration beetwin beretta and sig.
The variations of the bullets' paths are amazing.
Not sure why, but that thing to my eye, is just a damn good looking rifle.
So cool! I've since I saw the AR70 in my old gun books as a kid I wanted one. Thanks for making this video!
Same here.
I purchased my AR70 back in 1994. Its one hell of an accurate rifle I can still remember trying to find mags back then. I paid $300 bucks for one at a gun show, it was the only one I could find after searching for 3 years. I am gonna go dig my AR 70 out today. Its been awhile since I have touched it.
22:05 A lot of people say the same thing about the FN FN-C, which is very similar mechanically to the AR-70/90.
I owned an FNC sporter .223. Great rifle with good accuracy. I shot it mostly suppressed with a 4-16x scope on it. It had a terrible factory trigger with a pull weight similar to the factory trigger in my FN Scar 17s.
It’s neat to see the targets with the image stabilizer
I'm Italian and I've never ever seen Chef Boyardee ravioli xD Though now I kinda want to try them, for science.
oh i'm ashamed of it if you try it! It tastes like MRE "italian food", which I used to keep between my IBA and my body when on patrol to warm up and eat when we were pulling security.
Side note, the medics don't like that because if you get shot there's red sauce mixed into stuff.
@@9HoleReviews lol, "he's bleeding out, oh god, there are chunks of flesh EVERYWHERE" it's ravioli...
@@9HoleReviews I mean... Now trying it is a matter of principle xD
@@9HoleReviews 😂
Serving mid '90 in a Bersaglieri Rgt, after the basic training with the BM59 Alpine variant ( wich I loved), the newbe SC 70/90 was a great surprise, the one I got was brand new from factory, It was a rough, reliable and easy to disassembly and maintenance, a masculine rifle, smoot to shoot and quite accurate , I've seen guys at range shooting for the first time in theirs life and having a 15 to 20 hits on target on 30 round magazine at all the three distances 100/200 and even 300m, I think It was great for a conscripted personnel issued rifle
i don't know, probably the rifle would perform better with 62 grains bullets, because here in italy it's a well known fact that they shoot better with 62 grains...
ho well... it's a kit rifle... that explain a lot.
Rifle is 1/7 twist?
@@Seth9809 yes, 70/90 are 1:7.
@@matteoorlandi856 yes you are right 1/7 twist , perfect with 62 grs , specially over 150/200 yds , it a good chanel and great shooter but I do not understand why they have used 55 grs bullet , mamma mia ! 😃
Great content as always. Would love to see an L85 put through its paces
Good luck getting one.
@@humansvd3269 The better question is why would you want one
@@Paddy-zn4oo - Falling for the usual "L85 suxs, hUr dUr Hur" line eh? Ever used one, especially the A2 or A3 variants?
The L85 was always an accurate rifle, it's now matured into a reliable one too and has a proven track record in combat.
What is often forgotten by L85 detractors (who largely have never even touched one for real) is that the AR15 platform also had a terrible reputation when it was first released, but unlike the L85, the AR15 platform has been produced in such large numbers that issues were identified and dealt with sooner.
I've put thousands of rounds through various members of the SA80 family and I've had few issues that wouldn't also be expected from any other military-issued Western weapon system.
Hands down it’s not a marksman but you still push it to its limit great work Henry and spotter
Hey, it's a pretty unique looking rifle in my eyes and in spite of the difficulties getting it under par, I'll bet that with better wind conditions, it'll handle things better.
But you done did good shootin', only hope to see more from our beloved 9 Hole Duo
*Also that subtle pained look from Josh as you consumed Chef Boyardee made my day*
They should have at least made it Spaghettios…with meatballs. It would be a step up from Chef Boyardee.
I've always thought it resembled an FNC with a carry handle bolted on top.
Remember that although the M14 can be made to shoot 1 moa, a stock M14 is a 4 moa rifle. They were loos as a goose.
The M14 is 4 moa on a good day. A lot of them are worse than that.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography unless the crown has been destroyed by overzealous cleaning, a cigarette box cut up and used as shim between the stock and receiver would tighten up 98% of them.
Ne ho uno ex Carabinieri Tuscania, penso sia uno tra i meglio fucili mai realizzati, pesante ma di ottima meccanica. Il pistone a corsa lunga è una garanzia.
Not too bad for 55gr in the wind. Good shooting.
What a hawk-eye.
In my teens I could not hit 300 yards with the basic training M16.
I saw the headline and initially I thought it was the ARX 100! 🤩
They already did a video with the ARX if you want to check it out
@@alexglenn2122 nice! I’ll look for it.
Man, on shot #29, you could see it was bang on until the wind tossed it aside at the last moment like a wicked curve ball.
The AR/90 is beautiful Rifle
There is something truly special about all the 5.56 cold war/early 90’s type rifles. This looks far better than the ARX imho.
PASA PARK on a windy day gets swirls.
The wind goes both directions at the same time. Left to right at the line right to left at the 600 yard line. Not often but sometimes it cancels its self out. When it doesn't it's difficult.
That's a spicy meatball 🤏 I agree with Henry, the ascetics are top notch 💯
I think the above average accuracy of the AR-15 comes from its use of a barrel extension that is threaded on the barrel and then pinned. The bolt head spaces off the extension rather than a trunnion or receiver which is common in many other firearms. Its much easier to machine and achieve tight tolerances on the barrel extension which can be discarded during QA than it is for something like a receiver or trunnion which is a much more integral part of the firearm.
The gas piston being directly in line with the barrel does wonders for it, too. Pretty much all other autos run the piston parallel to the barrel, which means the gas system pushes the barrel in some direction.
@@immikeurnot Great point. I forgot about that design detail and how it might affect accuracy.
Nothing like the Pasta Fusil, with armor penne-tration rounds, making enemies upsetti spaghetti.
I think the rifle was a bit handicapped by being a kit gun, non italian mil spec in barrel and other parts and by ammos.
Italian Army uses ammunitons loaded with 62 grs. ss109 ball and, i think, a hotter load then the Magtech which, as i know, are quite low in performance. In nearly 30 years of shooting i never remember to have seen those vortex in air caused by flying bullets.
If i'm not wrong for quite a years, in the '90 our army used Hirtenberger ammos in their AR, and then Fiocchi. It would be nice to try with similar loads. I' d like to see the readings of seedometer on those Magtech ammos but i bet they are too slow and too light for that wind.
Anyway, though a cousin of the swiss StG-90 the italian one is a cheaper and less refined rifle. A good rifle for WW3, robust and reliable but not an expensive and elegant rifle as the SIG.
That "vortex" is just swirl from atmospherics and the light being in the right direction, if you've never encountered it, then you've not shot in many varied conditions at long range, you see it all the time depending on lighting and air pressure with good glass. It has nothing to do with the ammo.
From what I've seen in chronograph tests, Magtech 62 grain has pretty similar velocities to SS109/M855, so I assume it's pretty close to NATO 5.56 pressures. Its not like he was shooting Fiocci or Wolf. But again, that's their 62 gr load.
Also, they used Magtech 62 grain in their M16A4 video and it matched the BDC on the carry handle perfectly, it was one of their best runs with iron sights to date for any rifle.
@@Ihasanart The maximum distance i was used to shoot is 600 m. with iron sights In a private shooting range in the alps and no. i never noted them.
Yikes.... safest place to be is directly in front of the iron sights at 500 yards or more on a windy day, lol...
Still, it seemed to do pretty well within that 400 yard envelope, those 55 grainers were all over the place in that crosswind.
That's always been the case for 55gr, especially with flip sights. See the Tavor, the M16A1, the M4, etc. It just drops off drastically after 400. 62 has about a 100m longer distance before it starts getting rough.
Loved the can of ravioli!!! Should have set it out at the 150 yard target and sent a few more downrange!
I was thinking "Hey, I don't remember Ian covering this gun, a miracle" but then double checked and nah, he has a video from 2017.
0:23 lol, a man of culture
I appreciate this review of the Mini-14.
Ar-70/90s are optimized for ss190/m885 so maybe try it with 62 grns next time 👍still I wouldn’t expect amazing accuracy out of a giant two lug long stroke rifle, it’s built for reliability and durability
I doubt it would have made much difference, so much as the flip sights. Henry has had trouble with all flip sight rifles - para FAL, M16A1, Galil, as well as red dots past 300 meters, for obvious reasons.
Kept seeing this around when I was -binge- watching Narcos Mexico. Felt so familiar for some reason
oddly enough, Mexico did actually buy quite a lot of SC70/90
There is one important thing to consider: your Ar70/90 is not original due to the Us laws. It is assembled from a part kit that it can't be the same as a factory made gun. It doesn't had the same quality control as the Beretta made rifles so the precision is worse. I can assure you, being italian and speaking to many friends who use this rifle at the range, that the original beretta rifle performs much better than yours (a fan of you channel and a competitive shooter claimed watching your video: "i'm a worse shooter than him but I can do much better with my original ar 70/90"). Anyway, love your channel, keep going!
Sometimes i wonder when we gonna see a Valmet/Sako rifle in the Chanel 🤔
The official service rifle of Erusea btw..
Those who have never been on a weeks long trip away from home that was not a holiday, will not comprehend how awesome a can of chunky soup or Chef Boyardee is after MRE's for days on end.
dude, the MRE apple sauce in an external pouch on a cold day (so it chills on its own). My fav snack when pulling security.
Barrel twist rate was not mentioned, it does matter.
A bit of an odd question, but what would be y'all's thoughts on branching out to different styles of firearms? Is there a possibility shotguns (pump or semi-auto) or lever action firearms?
I think it would be a fun watch to see you guys break them down! I'm loving the content you guys work so hard on, keep up the awesome work(:
Josh you need a bit of distance to the microphone when out on the range. If it's clipping that can be improved later on by adjusting the level. This won't happen with a well adjusted limiter and you can have a base level for your videos.
Chef Boyardee, the master!
This rifle was born from a collaboration between SIG and Beretta in the 70s. SIG insisted on the roller locking, Beretta did not, only to then agree with Beretta.
After the divorce between the two companies, the AR 70/90 and the SIG 550 were born, which is practically the Swiss version.
I used it during my military service in former Yugoslavia, and I can say that apart from the weight, it was a good rifle.
A true battle field rifle. Ultimately I prefer reliability over accuracy and this rifle for a 5.56mm is one of the best. Still prefer the Swiss rifles but this ugly mutt always had a place whenever I seen one.
I am intrigued though what the results had been if you ran 62 or 77 gr projectiles through this beast. No need for a video but if you guys did do it I would love to hear about the result.
The time is right for RK62 with da proper ammo. Somebody, hook these gentlemen up!
A well balanced review, as usual, allow me to say.
Interesting and well present without a hint of bias, which is difficult especially these day.
Well done and keep these videos coming 😄😄😄
That's a really good illustration of why wind drift and accuracy matter- if that had been a higher BC round or if the rifle had shot tighter it would have been a different story. Take a 5" group and shift it a quarter target- no big deal. A 20" group on the other hand- all of the sudden you miss more than you hit. Also have to wonder if that thing opens up significantly when its warm....
Damn, that 500 yard target has jukes!
I’ve used a 70/90 along with a M16A1 (both are avaible to civilians here in Italy) and they performed the same with Fiocchi, Sellier Bellot and American Eagle 55 FMJ. With (cheap) handloads both were 2/2.5 MOA rifles while they were 3.5/5 MOA with commercial ammo. The M16A1 were much lighter then the Beretta. Now I own a 550 that is accurate like an AR15, sturdy like Ar70/90 and reliable like an AK.
That's true about the M16A1, they aren't as accurate as the A2. I'm also an SG550 fan!
@@9HoleReviews I’m in love with the M16A2 or A4. I’m looking for a Colt AR15A4, but they are so common here. 20” inches AR are cool!
@@GianmarcoLatcovich agreed again! The A2 and A4 are really such well shooting rifles!
Unrelated, but are y'all going to bring back Josh's pistol/PCC course?
It seems the 300 yard mark is the start of challenging shots on almost all the 9 hole videos
it's usually 400-450 when running light 55grain ball, 300 isn't usually an issue even with AKs
@@9HoleReviews it just seems the first miss starts at 300
I’ve never heard of this thing before. Very interesting!
Interesting. Definitely performs to the specs it was designed for- and no better.
Wow. That thing is one step up from a Rock.
Air is a current, at Distance bullets can be forced down and up, and sideways, basically it is a 360 degree game with atmosphere. The farther you go out and as velocity decreases, you get the kind of effects you saw at 500.
So what is the barrel twist of this Beretta AR70/90? 🤷🏻♂️
I have a Beretta AR70/223 import with a factory 1:12 twist barrel which has poor accuracy with 55 grain M193 ammo.☹️
I put a 4-16X scope on it and I could not zero the scope.🤔
On the other hand, I had a VZ58 .223 which had great accuracy with a Lothar Walther barrel.🙂
I was waiting this!!
It has always seemed to me that more reciprocating mass requires more weapon mass or more engineering effort to achieve the same accuracy as something like an M16.
It seemed to me that several piston guns have done exceptionally well on practical accuracy, notably the HK MR556 shot the hell out of the M4.
And the HK 416 isn't exactly designed or engineered as a piston gun, they basically slapped an anvil on the bcg in place of the gas key and called it a day.
You should do a vid on the Carcano M91
It’s a pretty interesting rifle 🤟🤟🤟🔥🔥🔥
at 1:26 was that an inglorious bastards reference that I heard? 👌 I hope someone else picked up on that.
I've been debating on building a 70/90 since it's got that weird Cold War aesthetic. A SAR80 is also on the list! Have you considered an AR-180 on the review to compare piston driven 5.56 rifles? I've got an early Costa Mesa that I'd be happy to loan to the show!
Finally! you guys are awesome, now i can flex that i'm made of the same italian sheet metal
I guess Henry has his post-apocalyptic groove on? Chowing down on Scavenged survival food?
My first centerfire rifle was a 03A3 Springfield. It was a 4 moa rifle, and it was a bolt gun. Most of the people who buy a AR70 want it because it's a AR70 not for outstanding accuracy.
I was literally eating cold chef boyardee as Henry pulled one out 😂 great choice
Muy bueno tu vídeo saludos desde Argentina
Beretta has designed deriving from the old AR70 and is calibrated for 250 or 400 meters as per NATO standard.
Great episode as usual.
Chef Boyardee is from Cleveland though 😂
what barrel was used an ess bros or serbu barrel? just curious if there would be a difference. have not accuracy tested mine as i dont have a range long enough here
Chef Boyardi can got me. Genuine Italian cuisine.
Can we just appreciate Henry’s eating his food while being off screen 😂😂😂
WE USED TO CALL IT THE VIOLIN, BECAUSE IT SOUNDED GOOD !
Third best Italian rifle
Do Springfield Hellion, please.
On the note of barrels,
Many cheap AR barrels are good accuracy, however alot of the weird kit specific barrels are not made to the same spec. Take for example alot of the early AK barrels made. They were in many cases 1/10th the hardness of an original barrel. Sometimes US barrels are more accurate, but they also go the other way.
Also using 55 grain doesn't help when it comes to the wind. I think the elevation misses could have been wind as well, being carried up or down by a tail wind.
Henry- *eats cold Beefaroni*
Josh- *visible suffering*
i love this gun
I swear on shot 30&37 you can see the projectile.
Can you please try to shoot a machine gun at that range with a stabilized camera? It would be really interesting to see the spreading pattern with different length of bursts, and it would be also very interested if you places a camera at 500 yards mark to see how it sounds to be pinned down by a machine gun at that distance.
Would be cool, but most ranges don't allow for this type of shooting. Kinda do want to see this too
Another great video!!! Thank you guys
CETME L next please!!!
FYI, the tripod link is dead. The digiscoping kit is probably never coming back, too.