wow surprised there was no mention of gavin mcinnes. he's considered the godfather of modern hipsterdom and co founded vice magazine back in the 90s. he maintained that OG hipster aesthetic after he left vice, started the proud boys, and became the neo fascist everyone knows him as today. he was doing this kind of thing before it was cool lol
@@Dafnessific it wouldnt be flattery, it would be accurate to what actually happened lol. doesnt matter if you think he's an idiot or lunatic, he was influential and a significant part of this whole thing
The term “Yuppie” was created in the 80’s by mass media to contrast with the “Hippies” of the ‘60s. The common trope was that the hippies had grown up, rejoined mainstream society, and become materialistic. BTW, the term “Hippie” was initially a diminutive of “Hipster” implying that they were just kids who liked to play hipster as opposed to the serious, deep, artistic hipsters of the ‘50s like Jack Kerouac.
This deserve so many likes!☝️ I've always been bothered by this obsession of the 70s being the start of "progressivism" when the 50s and 60s are more than meets the eye.
I disagree slightly with your first statement Mike. You are referring to what would become a 'Boomer' or a Richard Branson type. How could you be a Young Urban Professional if you were already over 30 at the beginning of the 80's? Yuppies were my generation. We were taught Macroeconomics at school level and encouraged to get a job in 'The City' Then Black Monday came in '87 and we all started taking bucket loads of Ecstacy instead of Cocaine and became labelled as 'Yippies'. The 90's were the 60's regurgitated. Although I'm speaking from a Londoncentric perspective and the Yuppie's true home was NYC.
I casually referred to my father as having been a hippie once and he was so offended, almost like it was a slur. He saw hippies as basically just hipsters, reproducing a counter-cultural affect and aesthetic but vapid and politically empty at best. To his mind they were kinda useless, undisciplined, underprepared, risking little, and sometimes actively detrimental, to the radical civil rights and black empowerment work he was doing.
I was absolutely noticing this trend in the 2010s and particularly in churches. When the Lumineers, and Mumford and Sons achieved peak popularity was when Contemporary Christian Music adopted a similar sound (much in the same way they tried with U2 and Coldplay before it.) I specifically remember the MOST rigid-calvanist churches picking up on this the most. These were the churches that would go to bat for hell, and God's plan to make people predestined for eternal damnation while also framing themselves as the "cool church." Tattoos became okay, talking about how much you loved coffee and beer became cultural signifiers, and every man tried to adopt the beard and glasses look of a Gavin McGinnis. It really sucked and I think at the time it showed how toothless the aesthetic was.
I think it shows more how toothless modern Christianity is in America. It is truly nothing but a country club to signal virtue of the wealthy to each other while they look down upon all the poors in their community and refuse to interact with them.
Oh my God, yes. At the same time, Target started carrying the _Hearth & Hand with Magnolia_ line by Chip and Joanna Gaines. My sisters drag me to these Mumford and Sons inspired churches, I drew the line when a pastor literally cited Jordan Peterson in a sermon. It is the most pretentious and obnoxious way I can think of to sell fascism. I just beg off now-no one in these congregations, including my sisters, will achieve self-awareness because of anything I say.
But actual Hipsters were not listening to Lumineers. Nobody in Brooklyn, Portland, LA switched on to that , because Lumineers & Mumford & Sons were catering to a frew new young yuppie class that was descended from the post EMO's who were trying to emulate Instagram trends that descended from the hipster of 2008. No actual Hipster from Brooklyn in 2014 had Lumineers & Mumford & Sons in their catalogue. In 2014, your average actual hipster was listening to CVRCHES, Tame Impala, Beach House, The Voidz. You are thinking of Midwest Emo all grown up that went down the alt right Christian pipeline of Lumineers & Mumford & Sons.
I've been thinking a lot lately about the hipster friends I used to have who've gone down the alt-right rabbit hole. One other reason I might add is that hipsters and conservatives find value in some idealized past. Hipsters and conservatives are both equally likely to pick a decade past, point to it, and say "see, things were better then."
@@BigBellyEd No, because if that's the case it would mean I'm a hipster. And I sure as hell aint no hipster.... Unless I'm suffering from cognitive dissonance 0_o
I feel in many cases it’s less a transformation and more an expansion. Now that it’s been over a decade, the “hipster aesthetic” has gotten so mainstream that suburban conservatives have also adopted it. The trends escaped Brooklyn and Portland years ago, every city in the Midwest and south now also has a craft brewery run by guys with mustaches and forest tattoos and a dozen old warehouses turned into brick loft condos.
I agree. My gripe with this kind of video and the academic analyses they cite is that they treat a general observed aesthetic or social idea as a single entity and the people within it as a consistent group. Any changes in the aesthetic or idea is attributed to the people themselves changing, not the membership of the group shifting over time.
Indeed. One could view conservatives adopting the hipster aesthetic as a cause of recouperation, the process by which dangerous or non-confirming things become safe. (You could also view it as the inverse because now the normie find conservatism weird and dangerous and mainstream liberalism safe and ordinary.) If you look at the way conservative people dressed by the mid-1970s, they adopted fashion and styling trends that would have signified hippiedom a decade beforehand, such as long hair for men or wearing bold flamboyant colors.
totally spot on. When the French are being academic on a topic they know nothing of and confusing younger people, this is irating. The Hipster overall was not that big in america, unless you were in Brooklyn, Echo Park or Portland, there were was no hipster subculture in America. Instagram was blowing up at this point and sot thats why in 2018 you suddenly saw this boom in Veganism and craft beer, but it came from a sub culture of 2008, that had already grown up. You even read this sentiment among the real/authentic hipster blogs/journals like Brooklyn Vegan, The Hipsterunoff (Carles) , that the hipster dream/ the dream of portland died in 2015 and that the yuppies/ normies were aborsbing it... but that the whole subgrenere was never meant to be taken seriously , and that it was corporations themselves who invented this 'hipsterism' ; zoey deschanel, pitchfork, craft beer in 2012. This video is just so wrong on so many levels.
In my country,Argentina,the hipster aesthetic is associated with quasi-liberal pretentious millenials that think they're eco-conscious when they're really not and live on a daily dosis of speciality coffee and IPA
Being eco conscious as individuals is a myth peddled by conservatism and the oil companies. There's only so much the individual can do, such as only ride a bike, and only eat from their own garden. When 97% of carbon emissions, or whatever it is, comes from military, heavy industry, corporations, and distribution, the only impact individuals can really have on the grand scheme is how they vote. Everything else is secondary pertaining to their individual life style choices or what temperature their home is. It's like a single mission or training mission of a fighter jet is the equivalent of several years of a personal automobile. With the US at least, the single largest entity carbon footprint is the military. Next up is Amazon and Walmart, distribution companies, and the energy companies themselves. Yeah it adds up and we all can pitch in and help, but if we could end militarism, find a carbon neutral means of distribution, and have the oil industry forced to invest in renewables, we'd stand a chance. Private consumers are the smallest part of it. The main things needed in the US are a sustainable energy grid, and a means to operate all transportation on it as well, then behind that is home, business, and industrial energy demands from heating and cooling. Either there are mass movements and big enough governments to force capital and industry's hands, or capital and industry forces itself, or theres a mass popular movement to go back to agrarianism. It will be too late to prevent climate change, but industry has already begun mobilizing. There's only like 50 years of known, reachable oil reserves left, and only about 100 years of known uranium reserves left. Unless there's a market driven answer to replace these power grids and energy infrastructures, we'll all be vegan hipsters riding on bikes eating out of our gardens soon anyway, home brewing our IPA.
I'm from Portland, OR USA. It's the exact same except it's EVERYWHERE in gentrified neighborhoods. Like Portland is known for its IPA's and microbreweries.
I knew a guy in my friend group years ago who was the epitome of hipster. He was obsessed with picking all of his consumption habits to differentiate himself from others around him. It was infuriating to interact with him because he was so focused on showing how cool he was rather than building friendships with our group. I haven't thought about him in a long time, but it makes sense why no one wants to be called a hipster now.
I never really thought of the hypocrisy of the 2010s hipster. They’re so obsessed with being different that they all become carbon copies of each other. They become exactly what they despise.
Yeah that's the joke. That's how they got the name hipster. But it's actually a perfectly good thing. It's people who are espousing there's intervalle use and expressing themselves without fear. And if they find others who think along the same lines, more power to them. It's not just about being an individual. It's also about being true to themselves and having integrity and culture.
I went to a Sigur Ros concert 1 or 2 years ago and that band still seems to attract the same people they did 10-15 years ago i.e. people who dress alternative and free-spirited but are complete conservative normies. When everyone dresses the same weird way, is it still weird? Or is it a uniform?
A similar thing happened with the hipster's parents, the baby boomers/hippies. Their nonconformist subculture turned into the first tech bros (e.g., steve jobs) of the world. So it makes sense that the hipsters would go down a similar path.
You seem to be a savvy person. Well, I'm sorry but, there's never been such thing as "nonconformism". What you're referring has been corrupted then manufactured, to make us bath into the illusion of control toward the quest of "progress". As you seems willing to pay attention to (social) patterns, I invite you to look at Bernay work in the"the century of the self", then the last words of JFK. The political spectrum is a decoy... monsters do exist and they love power like a shark loves blood... Go take a look at Sound of Freedom and what Jim Caviezel, Tim Ballard have to say about it, what the first tech bros allowed to happen...
The Californian Ideology. Techno-libertarianism. Jobs and Woz first project was selling blue boxes (2600 hz tone generators; telephone hacking devices) out of a garage.
Hipsters aren't a generation, and thus their parents are not a generation. She covers your point with the part on Yuppies(Jobs, Gates are examples of Yuppies... or "professional hipster").
My experience with "Hipster-dom" (as an observer of the subculture here in America) leaves me with the impression that it has always been a somewhat derided and mocked aesthetic, with most people finding its adherents to be insufferably smug, self-congratulatory, trying way too hard to be "cool", and ultimately very superficial. It's no surprise, therefore, that Alt-Right conservative personalities have taken the lifestyle onboard, as many of them are much the same.
This also happens to me. I was kinda hipster in the sense that I love a lot of stuff that the normal people in my province don't know, so I go to the internet forums in order to gush out about my favorites. I was often gatekeep by a lot of snubs, and that made me sad because I really wanted to have a fandom talk. Those gatekeepiness really parallels those conservative ideologist. That they are the ones who must only love those things, and you are not a part of it. The one thing I also hate about them is the sold-out idea that they will start hating the band when they become famous. Like, they still want those bands to be like starving artist. They are really the opposite of socialism.
It was always performative counter-culture that at the same time was obsessed with how others thought of them. It was counter-culture terrified of going against mainstream culture. Seeing as how conservatives now are saying that being cis and straight is now unpopular and frowned upon, and pretending all their bigotry is them being "brave" about speaking up, I can believe they're the same people. They're obsessed with the idea of being a "special minority of people", and they think anyone who they think currently holds that spot, which in their minds is gay and trans people, must have the same attention-grabbing motivations as them. Counter-culture is never admired in the contemporary time it exists in. Whatever is considered "cringe", looked down on, or considered downright illegal and coupled with a worthwhile cause, is more likely to be counter-culture than a self-branding with that label based on superficial traits.
Or The Hipster was always conservative at heart. It was usually young white people from wealthy backgrounds being tourists in subcultures and underground environments that originally belonged to a much poorer class and formed by their marginalized inhabitants. And as firm believers in the meritocracy and their place at the top of it, they turned their novel interests in arts and academia into a competition, and one they were already pretending to excel at.
@@gwen9939 if you're under the impression that the bourgeois aren't associated with 'liberalism' and that only conservatives engage in appropriation, then you've entirely failed to understand both Marxism and post-colonialism.
[this person still thinks liberalism is left wing and that capitalism doesn't have a counter-culture quota so the workers don't revolt because they have rainbows on their products and can buy communist merch]
It's not just conservatives becoming hipsters. Most of the hipsters I know were liberal when they were younger and then turned into crypto/techbro libertarians as they started making more money/acquiring property. They simply held onto the aesthetic. It's our generation's version of the conservative hippie.
The Hispter lifestyle is something that requires a lot of free time and disposable income. Only the kids from wealthy families become the what is the most popular or familiar versions of what a Hipster is. Underneath the pretentiousness, they always knew that wealth was what made it all possible. With aging out of their 30's, they aspire to be more like their 1%ers parents.
I'm not sure if you know, but the basis of hipsters in New York were millennials who had so much money and time from the wealth of their boomer parents, they just spent it shirking off and getting so wrapped up in their consumerism it became their identity, and thus hipsters were born. The original hipsters were all trust fund babies.
It’s literally an aesthetic where all your clothes are second hand and you live in a run down studio apartment where the bricks are showing through the Sheetrock “exposed brick”. It’s literally designed for the crushing poverty in the post recession era of the 2010s
@@LucasFernandez-fk8sethink it depends what side of hipster-dom you lean toward. If you’re a mustache- or beard-waxing, leather loafer-wearing, fancy coffee- and beer-drinking hipster, it’s not cheap. But I was young when 2010s hipsters first appeared, so maybe they evolved into being more expensive/consumerist.
@@Anna-dd4rhit is pretty interesting how *that* side of the hipster movement took over and became the popular image. Thinking back to early hipster ness, it was more about skinny jeans and too-small T-shirts
I'm a veteran communist in my 60's and have seen many social trends and fashions in music, clothes; indeed all manner of lifestyle/image things aiming to project progressive views. I've never been able to afford to follow any of them but have seen how they create divisions, often violent, between eco-warriors, anarchists, communists,socialists, ethnic groups, lgtb+ etc. At the fundamental level our fight is the same but these divisions via phoney appropriation of progressive causes are immensely profitable for conservatives.
As far as leftists wanting to buy local, I think it's much less to do with a distaste for globalism as it is just knowing that it's easier to know that things are ethically sourced when they come from local distributers within our own communities. I think we want globalism in the sense of an interconnected and united world, but still with locally sourced and grown foods, goods, and services for ethics and sustainability purposes. I think this also simultaneously helps fight big corps and monopolies in certain ways as well.
I agree, most anyone not in a concrete hell knows the difference in flavor of a tomato grown far away in a corporate mega farm and one you eat fresh off of the vine growing in the dirt by your house. The exclusion of the elephant in the room, climate change caused by massive burning of fossil fuels is also concerning in the deductions of people's motivations to desire a less "globalized" economy. Those fruits and vegetables dont just magically appear in the local supermarkets, a lot of them are shipped on supercontainer ships that consume massive amounts of fossil fuels. Let's not get into the farming and harvesting practices for many of the goods we like to consume from faraway lands either. These assumptions on group psycology seem to oversimplify the motivations for peoples' opinions and desires, but may make sense when identifying political and thought leaders who have an increased influence on peoples' perception of the world and themselves.
For me hipsters never really had a political ideology one way or another. My first encounters I thought they were progressive because of their seeming counter culture anti tradition bend even though they were wearing traditional clothing via thrift stores, but I met more than enough of them which were conservatives who'd call me slurs as "jokes" and held less than favorable views on minorities and immigrants, and they were young fresh faced people who were still "cool", not the old craggly conservative that is often depicted. It was kinda the first moment I realized my preconceptions on who follows what political ideology were just wrong.
Closest ideology I associate with hipsters is nihilism. The movie "The Comedian" is one everyone should watch and to me portrays the epitome of hipsterdom.
Hipsterism is definitely very close to yuppieism and conservatism. If we consider the definition of hipsterism to be the obsessive cultivation of one's "brand" and image, that act is something closely related to privilege. Their ability to cultivate their image is closely tied with the maintenance of their privilege and the power structures that support it. Otherwise everything comes crashing down. A lot of these "tech bros" pretty quickly can rally behind fascism, or the rigid enforcement of the status quo, all in service of their egoism.
The tech bros are yuppies; it's just "tech" instead of finance (and half of them are in 'fin tech'). Crypto has been Bonfire of the Vanities: Shithead Edition. "Cultivation of image" is not uniquely the domain of conservatism, that is a strange and unsupportable position. Just because fascism is concerned with aesthetics does not make all aesthetics fascist.
@@Dafnessific I wouldn't say that a focus on aesthetics makes one a fascist, but that self-cultivation on the level of narcissism and egoism is a major sign of having an "authoritarian personality" , which does make one more vulnerable to fascist propaganda and rhetoric.
@@lucaskane5364 Nonsense. Consider the subcultures associated with 'camp.' Read some Stuart Hall ('Resistance Through Rituals.') Or more or less any queer theory.
@@olg.__ Not necessarily, conservative hipsters tend to be christian or appreciate christian-inspired values, and I'm sure there are more liberal hipsters who get into Buddhism or Paganism or whatever.
@@Dafnessific Wouldn't he be though, hipster is not mutually exclusive to nazi (just look at the Proud Boys founder, Gavin McInnes). It's an aesthetic with some sub-culture elements, and can easily be coopted
As a Canadian hipster in the 2010s the subculture gave me permission to focus locally and be anti-american just a little bit. In a place so heavily influnced by our neighbour, the idea on local economy, Culture, and arts was a way to engage with the community and is somewhat an essential part of the "canadian identity" (big astrix there on what it means to be Canadian). Living in a very conservative culture and community (alberta) the hipster ideas of the 2010s were progressive and challenged the statues quo while being accessable in the global converstaion and economically with a focus on old tech and second hand clothes. By collecting records I was able to connect with an older generation by pulling from what they would give to me and having converstaions about their media and parts of relevant cultural history. The conservative bend is new to me as "hipster" has drifted away in the last 5ish years in my understanding of local cultures, while I am not surprised, it is concerning the the idea of connecting with those around you has been reformed into exculsuonary ideology.
Could it just be that hipsters are getting older? Like when a lot of boomers who were a lot more progressive & anti-establishment when they were younger, over time became more and more right wing? Maybe it could also be related to how the word "libertarian" shifted from a left-wing term into a right-wing one in the US? It started around the 50s but I still feel like there's been a pretty dramatic shift in the past decade.
Probably not, as millennials are the first recorded generation to (at least in the US and UK) grow less conservative with age. Gen-Z is following the same trend although they're still too young to make conclusions
@@KarlSnarks Well that sounds very hopeful!! I know I've stepped left away from liberal as I got older. Do you know where I can find the study? I tried searching for it, but the articles that came up didn't have a link to the source.
Basically Salvador Dali effect. Lot of people in art scene become reactionaries when they achieve wealth and fame at older age. Being an influencer is in part an art.
I’m a self identified hipster, and have considered myself as such since about 2011, and as I’ve gotten older I’ve become more radically left wing. I would also argue that this is most probably the case for most aging millennial hipsters. Whereas I started out being a sort of “socialist” type, I’d now identify myself as an anarcho-syndicalist. I think it’s also worth mentioning, that a lot of things that retrospectively have been assigned as being ‘hipster’, for me feel off the mark. A big one is this association with hipsters as being this craft beer and coffee consuming snobs. I can tell you that as a broke 22yo hipster living in Chicago during the craft beer boom I drank PBR and cheap whiskey almost exclusively, and recall this being the de facto choice for hipsters at the time. During that time I also worked at craft beer places and the clientele was almost exclusively regular cargo shorts wearing suburban dudes that made enough money to spend $9 on a beer. Just because you spotted some hipsters working at a craft beer bar doesn’t mean craft beer is/was a hipster thing. Likewise with coffee. Hipsters work at 3rd wave coffee shops, but the clientele imo is mostly tech bros/brodettes. I’ve noticed in the comments that people are focused a lot on there being a specific aesthetic and I also think that’s off the mark. In my opinion the most important aspect of hipster culture is/was always the music. The hipster aesthetic imo was always informed by music, esp indie music, mixed with the general trends of the #menswear era, and has evolved as fashion has evolved. I think to just lump any person you see with a flannel shirt, tattoos, and doc martens into the category hipster is an oversimplification. TL;DR the things you call hipster, might not actually be, and as the failures of capitalism become more manifest, hipsters are becoming more left wing.
To support your comment, “hipster aesthetic” has also been commodified and sold to people via fast fashion retailers like Urban Outfitters. So, people that can afford clothing that needlessly expensive and low quality end up having the hipster look, where the original hipster look came from thrifting, swapping clothes with friends, hand me downs from relatives, etc. As you said, this resulted in a look that is marketed as “hipster “ and doesn’t match what real hipsters actually wear.
Yeah it's kind of really annoying look into these comments and seeing how everybody is calling hipsters conservative. When that couldn't be further from the truth. It's really ridiculous and disheartening how stupid people are. Also as a side note that you said brodettes instead of just sisters
Do you know what’s funny? The fact that all you hipsters are upper middle class and pathologically left-wing is actually what made me a conservative out of the class resentment you caused through gentrification
"Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would *critique* capital end up *reinforcing* it instead. " - Joyce Messier, Disco Elysium
The best video game that analyzes the complexities of all social identities and how local politics feed into global politics. Also you can solve crimes wearing nothing but a talking necktie that peer pressures you into doing speed.
As someone who could probably be seen as "hipstery" sometimes, a lot of hipsterism is virtue signalling. It's not enough to have certain values and taste and opinions, you have to make it very clear so that everyone sees it and understands that you are someone who truly stands for those things and therefore unique and interesting...
As someone who was a hipster in my 20s and 30s, I think the major cocaine use in those scenes was a massive red flag. Heavy cocaine use also accompanied Reaganism and its popularity seems to be connected to right wing shifts in culture.
There are people who do coke and unironically support Reagan? I don't mean to sound mean but that sounds like the scene you were in. Almost all the coke users I know hate Reagan.
@@bayleyasher Yea this is weird. Not only is the Reagan type the 'war on drugs' one, Reagan himself publicly advised against people carrying loaded weapons on the streets. Maybe just more hypocrisy
@@bayleyasher you do know you're funding colombian white ring militaries by doing cociane? They're still killing a large number or indigenous people in colombia to take their land for cocaine. Then the the police raid it and the land becomes a coffee plantation. If you're a leftist you know how selfish it is to do cocaine.
I don’t think so being a black woman who used to spend time in hipster spaces, they were always not what they preached. Hardly any BIPOC in site. I remember seeing a hipster band I liked and it was a fairly open venue. And they looked at me after the show like they were confused I was there. They were one of those NY bands.
"superficial" is a word that i feel like we've lost and should use again more. that perfectly described what being a hipster was and is: superficial and looking to broadly appeal to others by way of a "look"
Just a comment to praise how you unwrap the ideas, the video flows very easily. In addition to the knowledge, you communicate very well. Great job, Alice Capelle!
The characters featured on the thumbnail were never really hipsters. It's a costume change for expanding their audience demographic. People of the hipster generation have actually moved more towards the left as they grew older due intergenerational inequalities. That said, everyone has a price. You can turn any hipster with bribes, status, and a comfortable life. As the saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them."
Hipsterism has basically just always been a neo liberal reflection where an individual counters against a cultural norm. Other iconoclastic movements (like the punk movement) differ from hipsterism because they're rooted in breaking down mainstream society to empower collective impact. Yes, hipsters have drifted in which social issues they criticize, but hipsters always buy into individual empowerment bootstrap ideology. Hipsters haven't changed, at least not in the last 3 or 4 generations.
I’ve definitely seen that myself, but that doesn’t paint a complete picture. During that same time period I lived in the South; my friends and I were low economic status and championed progressive beliefs and actions. We were called hipsters during that time for wearing atypical fashion bought at thrift stores, dumpster-dived, restoring furniture and bikes, and shopping local when possible. The point is, everyone is someone else’s hipster.
the problem with people like many hipsters is they build their left wing ideas over what they perceive to be the correct persona and off a lack of life experience and instead off how much left wing academia they have read.
I’m Lakota, and I agree - I think it’s just white liberals who think they “turned conservative”. And let’s be real white liberals are pretty centrist and still racist.
@@JUDALATION ok colonizer. And I can tell you’re a colonizer by your astounding arrogance that because of the city you are from (on stolen land) that you know everything
Can we just take a moment to appreciate these guys being so painfully uncool that they're hipster years after people collectively decided they hated hipsters?
Honey it’s just Matt Walsh. She had a picture of Matt and Johnny on there. Matt is right wing and Johnny is left wing. Ben and others aren’t hipsters 🤷♂️. They’re just not. You can argue that they’re not cool but they’re not hipsters
It's kind of inevitable. I doubt there's a form of noncomformism that hasn't gotten subverted like this. It's more a matter of degree, especially when those who are part of it can slip easily in later life into a more comfortable life, or the differences that made them stand out in their earlier days *seem* to become less relevant as they age, even if it means abandoning those whose identities intersect with their own.
@@KarlSnarks Adam Carolla. Joe Rogan was on time to time too. Jimmy Kimmel somehow made it out mostly intact. That kitschy 50s tiki torch masculinity has since mostly been subsumed by tacticool and etc.
@@Dafnessific Hahaha yeah Joe Rogan definitely did not end up well. Googled Carolla's politics (as I know little about the guy) and it doesn't seem great. Closed borders, against welfare policies, sexist remarks, casual homo/transphobia etc. Not completely MAGA-levels bad, but still.
One of the arch-hipsters of the 00s is Gavin McInnes, who for the unaware helped found Vice News and after he was ousted from Vice, he went on to become the founder of the Proud Boys. Also, for heterosexual male chauvinists, the origin story of the name proud boys is the fruitiest shit ever. It comes from a Broadway Aladdin song, I believe McInnes has admitted this out loud at least once.
I had warned my "liberal" friends back in 2010 that "buying local" wasn't as liberal as they thought because they were essentially pumping money back into their mostly insular communities and though it seemed like the antidote to large corporations that moved production to Asia, it was inherently biased in its approach. I got laughed at, of course. 13 years later, here we are and I am not at all surprised. This was the logical end to their obsession with buying local. Extend the argument just a bit - why spend money on others when you can invest in your own. Some of these old "friends" are now suburban conservatives. Many of the supposedly staunch feminists now post only about motherhood and the joys of staying home and shilling MLM products. Sometimes the irony is delicious and other times quite depressing.
What about manufacturing locally? Would that help to support a progressive political idea, or does it just further exacerbate market capitalism's vice grip on our lives? I have to reject anarchic politics as trivially distrustful, but it's hard to imagine change coming from within the system.
Why are you commies such shills for the globalists? It makes no sense. Do you think we're all gonna be under a Stalin-esque one world government soon? Is that what your utopia looks like? You do know who ends up in the gulag first?
The thing with the second wave of hipsterism was that it became unreasonably big, turning into something so hard to define that it basically became everything to everybody, particularly everything they wished to attack. Almost everybody who called other people hipsters would fit some definition of it themselves. Towards the peak of neohipsterism in the mid 10's I was one of few people who might be called as such and not feel particularly offended. I was just a young adult of the recession, meaning that all the vintagey stuff, from clothing to bicycles etc was just my way to be able to do some nice things despite being too poor to normally be able to. Want to study photography, but cannot find the money to buy a DSLR? Just get an old film camera and you'll probably enjoy it more. Cannot buy an expensive new bicycle or hit the nice coffee shops every other day? The answer is obvious. Bored of generic music? So many underground scenes around the world, look for artists that float your boat. That was the mentality in a nutshell and even though there's nothing anticonformist in being a hipster per se, in that context that I'm describing the whole vibe was inherently progressive. And yeah, I just happened to have a beard and like flannel. The thing is, I was always like that. I didn't suddenly wake up to find this was an anthropotype now, or a new target group of impressionable people that would consume new stuff if they emulated this image. Woah, I caught myself trying to make the argument of the authentic hipster, which leads right to the ultimate hypocritic hipster motto: "I liked that before it was cool" lol. Also, at that time, hardcore leftists suddenly started really hating us and I would tell them that this was so short-sighted and that hipsters were the leftists' best friends. After all, Marxism-Leninism is the ultimate vintage ideology 🙃
Worked with a lad who was exactly one of these. Big beard, heaps o tattoos and a beanie. And he had all these pro environment views while also resenting the polish lads at the job cause they "wouldnt speak english" and "they only had a nice car cause of government handouts". Didnt seem to occur to him that he had a similar car working the same job. Edit: Forgot but he didnt even technically speak "proper english" cause he spoke doric a scots dialect most english speakers srruggle with lol. Cannae win with these guys.
Tellement pas ouvert aux changements.... que noir, blanc, arabe, etc.. on est tous unis..... pendant que vous, vous parlez d’appropriation culturelle, de victimisation, de racisme, de privilèges, de séparation blanc et noir (la ségrégation quel preuve d’union).
If a group of people gather wealth and value keeping and benefiting that wealth, along with old 'anti-conformism values', it's not surprising that this happens. An aesthetic can be chosen for many reasons and those may shift in time but still remain coherent.
Way back in the early 1980s, I had an energy executive come outside to where we were protesting plans for a nearby nuclear power plant. He said, "Let me tell you what's going to happen. We're going to buy up all your "flower power" nonsense and then use it to make you all look like clowns. We'll flood the marketplace - which means your voice will be lost and you'll never heard from again. It's called win/win. We love you guys now." Appropriating ... and then modifying until it is unrecognizable ... is a ploy. Pretty much an evil tactic to irradicate opposition and alternatives. You'll see whenever a group gains enough of a following to present a threat to the status quo.
In the 1990’s we used the word “Hipster” to describe someone with basic knowledge of the counter culture, underground music and film. People from outside the culture co-opted the word until it became pejorative, and eventually came to mean: someone who adopts the aesthetic of the counter culture without actually being versed in it’s art or history. The opposite of its original meaning. Calling someone a hipster would be tantamount to calling them a poser, which is why no one identifies with that label.
Among musicians that are vocal on politics, who gets more things right than Morrissey? Or are you saying that artists should stfu and not ruin their art for you because they're not aligned with you on politics? Who do you side with, Waters or Gilmour?
@@moneypennysloverboy you mean the raging racist who wants Bengalis to not come to Britain while ignoring that he's Irish (and should fuck off back to Ireland by his own logic) gets more things right than other musicians who are vocal about politics? 🤔 Yes, of course. On a serious note, finding someone insufferable doesn't mean they need to shut up. It means the drivel coming out of their mouths can be exhausting.
The argument I've heard is conservatives used to be very intolerant and hipsters were rebellious of that. Ironically the liberals have become extremely intolerant of that intolerance (even if it isn't there) so now there are conservative hipsters who rebel liberal intolerance
It's interesting. I was a hipster. I love music, vinyl, was and probably still am a snob about it. I also never wore that hipster lumberjack look. I was a bit more influenced by the 90's gen x hipster at least aesthetically and in music taste. I never really got around to getting that into millennial hipster music. Though I did love Animal Collective for a time. I just wish I could live closer to more green spaces as my current area in the city was forgotten about by urban planners well before the pandemic- I'd prefer to live in the city centre closer to where the green spaces are in the city even though there are empty luxury condos. I cannot escape into suburbia or conservatism anyway, because I do not have the support, economic opportunities, history of houselessness and drug addiction, not to mention being a trans lesbian. So multiculturalism keeps me safer and keeps me firmly in the urban spaces. Especially right now how I'm being legislated into a second-class citizen for what inherent and immutable quality I have. A lot of men with beards like that tend to sit in tall giant "mid-sized" trucks who honk when they seem me from the back and then yell "F**!" or something if they realise I'm not cis from the front. The middle class conservative hipster could don the the trappings of the counter culture and because of white privilege, generational wealth, economic mobility, etc., leave when the city as it begins to seem less appealing; do a similar white flight my parents and the other boomers did in the 70's to start families in suburbia because the "city is no place to raise a child". In my experience, "buy local!" was first introduced to my hometown in the early 2000's because our downtown and small businesses were dying from the corporate big box stores like Walmart. It's what urban planners called "the urban donut", which has supposedly is making a resurgence after the pandemic from said modern white flight. It can cause urban decay and hurt small businesses specifically. At the time there was a focus on buying local produce from the farmer's market and wares from small local businesses. To buy from small farms that didn't have to travel far to sell their produce and keep some small retailers alive. A cultural centre. All of this still relies on capitalism and liberalism, but it's an effort to keep small town to city centres alive. Term was developed in the mid-late 20th century when the American mall, strip mall, big box stores came to prominence. There's a documentary on it that Walmart's effect on small town centers. Thus limiting economic options for the citizens, as the job prospects become homogenous and lower paying. There's also a pretty large influence of car culture and suburbanisation in north America specifically, within this effect. So while it wasn't necessarily a nationalist adjacent concept when I was young, cause there was still the idea of "American made" being inherently better after the outsourcing of factory jobs, the shift to neoliberalism, shareholder economics, all about the same time as boomer white flight- I do see how this concept can become nationalistic. Though I feel it's a little more nuanced some respects.
You made a good point about what “buying local” was about. It was a way to fight big corporations and help mom & pop stores. For me, “buying local” and “made in the USA” was a way to help people survive the aftermath of the 2008 recession. I’m an older millennial, and I noticed plenty of my peers becoming more conservative politically, first by voting for Trump and then adopting a religion. It stems from a false image of left-wing people who stopped advocating free speech and became close-minded. They feel that being right-wing is the new anti-conformity.
This hits very, very close to home for me. I live in a medium-small city in the Northeast of Italy (about the size of Roubaix in France, Bath in the UK, Hildesheim in Germany, Santiago de Compostela in Spain, or Albany, NY in the USA - you get it), my musical tastes are compatible with yours, I literally have a man-bun, short beard, and thick glasses (I AM severely astigmatic tho) and I know exactly what you're talking about. During the last, say, 3 years, I've noticed many, many people with the same taste in movies or music as me moving sharply right while I was going further left. This was in reaction to "wokeness" and "censorship" in art because holding male artists accountable for the shit they used to get away with before #MeToo is Orwellian I guess? Also lots of complaining about "woke" propaganda contaminating art and way more transphobic "jokes" than I'm comfortable with. I think that, much like what happened with the Star Wars fandom and GamerGate, these are cishet middle-class white people (just like I am) who aren't used to progressive critiques of the art they enjoy, nor to marginalised people (aka "not us") taking part in it, and what does it say about them that their response to all of this is anger, mockery, and disgust? It was also telling that a music journalist who had been covering punk/alternative music since the early 1980s recently complained on social media about how football players (by football I mean what people in the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand refer to as the s-word) who play in the Italian championship are now forbidden from wearing the number 88 on their jerseys, using terrible scaremongering slippery slope arguments ("are we going to skip 88 when counting from 87 to 89 now?") and claiming that he didn't know 88 was a Nazi dog whistle before the whole story came out (wait until he finds out why 14 is a Nazi dog whistle too). Now, seeing how the Italian football world is a Nazi-infested hellscape and a primary source for far-right recruitment (and we DID have players known for having fascist sympathies who wore the 88 on their jerseys), forbidding the number 88 on football jerseys does look like a gesture that feels like it's going in the right direction but runs very little risk of getting anywhere, but FFS WHAT SIDE ARE YOU EVEN ON, DUDE?
88 is still code for a grand piano, since the standard size has 88 keys. Existed way before that Nazi bullshit, like 100 years longer or even more. In the end it's just a number and any number has some negative connotation in certain specific contexts.
also hipsters are interested in revival of outdated tradition, which makes reactionary trends appeal to them, so long as it feels ‘fresh’ or countercultural within the current context
Nope. Corporations do what corporations do... Try to maximize profits year in and year out and SOME corporate entities have made the choice through advertising and PR to try and accomplish this by widening their appeal to demographics that go beyond the Madison Ave stereotypes from the 1960's. Also... I'm sorry to tell all the recently minted rebels against corporate power that their bullshit pose to cover up how Whitebread Reactionary they really are is easy to bring to the surface by having a discussion on taxes and regulation. It's hard to be a Rebel against the corps when you have as immutable "First Principles" the idea that raising taxes on them is the moral equivalent of slavery and any regulation in the public interests is tyranny. Their collective idiocy will always out itself.
A lot of hipsters I met at n NYC in the early 2010s I knew were already conservative, just by how condescending they are to people of color born in New York.
Thank you so much for expressing something verbally that has been rattling around in my brain for ages! I was never able to articulate it until your video.
this is so interesting, it made me think about how the definition of "woke" has changed so rapidly, like it means the opposite that it meant 10 years ago... idk i cant even define it anymore
RUclips videos featuring the word "Woke" or (even more so) "Wokeism" are a seemingly never ending avalanche of centrist/rightwing wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Absolutely fascinating. No idea how a French political/social commentary channel ends up in my feed but I am very grateful. Very insightful and interesting. Earned a sub from me.
Crypto/techbro libertarian hipsters are the millennial generation's conservative hippie. Their material interests changed, but they held onto the aesthetic.
Dear Alice Capelle, Great video! Thank you ❤ I think there is a strand of nostalgia in the hispter movement(s) that make it very fit for conservative (re)appropriation. There has been a strong line of authenticity, ur-masculinity and going "back to nature". A line of thinking that fit very well with the Fascist "reject modernity, embrace tradition". As liftists, we might need to view nostalgia as a red flag...
You think conservatives would really wanna preserve the environment. Is the conservatives prefer national parks send natural spaces. I think conservative is the wrong word entirely to identify the right wing movements. This is just my thoughts.
"As a young black teenage girl in the early 2010s, I found myself fitting into the stereotypical image of a millennial hipster. During that time, I rejected most modern pop music and popular artists, gravitating towards a hipster aesthetic characterized by combat boots, military jackets, and an overall preference for alternative styles. Looking back, I realize that my teenage interests were rather superficial and short-lived, as I soon transitioned into an alternative grunge aesthetic that lasted until the mid-2010s. It's not surprising to see the connection between the hipster movement and conservatism. The general hipster philosophy of valuing the old over the new seems to align with the rhetoric often heard at evangelical MAGA rallies, where a rejection of modernity and an embrace of tradition are common themes. During the late 2000s and early 2010s, I witnessed the rise of rap culture and its growing influence in popular culture. It was a significant moment when Hip-Hop/Rap dethroned rock music as the most popular export of American culture. This shift brought more visibility to minorities and rap culture, challenging the traditional dominance of rock music, and Alternative music. This shift definitely didn't sit well with hipsters.
Hi Alice, I love your videos and I was wondering if you will do a video on the protests for Nael that are happening right now in France the same way you did for the pensions protest. I think we need voices that arent the media or the french state or police on these issues and you have a great platform to do so and a great way of commenting on complicated topics :)
Another good read / reference on the exact same subject is Decolonize Hipsters by GRÉGORY PIERROT (I believe he grew up in France). I stumbled uppon it while doing research for a photo book and he has some nice parallels with what is being said in the video and the comment section.
I think there is one major difference between the French and the US right wing embracing the hipster habitus (BTW, the phenomenon of hipsterism has been pretty universal in countries of a certain income level): It is a much better proposition to eat locally-sourced stuff in France than in the US. Same with living in the suburbs/countryside. The French right wing can easily take the appeal of rural France's cultural tropes and combine it with the aesthetics of hipsterism, in order to offer men a best of both worlds scenarios. The US right wing can't, because their rural tropes... well, suck. Worse still with the suburbs. That's why they panic at every sort of Urban habitus, they cannot assimilate it into their worldview (which in many ways, has changed little since the first Puritans landed). And that's why the Shapiros and the other guy look so... off playing up the hipster aesthetics. it's like when yuppie-born kids tried to do Hip-Hop Culture
Peasants Into Frenchmen, Weber. But you've lost the plot when it comes to the American mythos. Read de Tocqueville; consider the Jeffersonian citzen-farmer, Thoreau, manifest destiny and the frontier, 'rugged individualism' blah blah blah. Ben Shaprio sucks at pretending to be a cowboy because he's Ben fucking Shapiro, a Harvard Law School graduate pretending at populism with no connection to any of that but received culture.
Really sad and scary to see France being swept by this rightwing reactionary wave. Hope you manage to organize and fight this monster. A key element is to reach the countryside...
Every action has an equal an opposite reaction. The pearl clutching on both sides is absurd. What you actually want is a fair amount ideas from both sides so you see the world in a well rounded way.
I think it all comes down to income. Early 2000 hipsters were generally younger and less well off. In trying to define themselves they adopted a frugal style that appreciated and cultivated ‘home made and local’. As time passed many became better off and, as is typical in any social group, became more protective of their wealth (i.e. more conservative).
This reminds me that a few years ago the term „Nipster“ circulated here in Germany. It was meant to denote the far right‘s effort of influencing the youth via a „cool“ appearance - of course looking like hipsters. A worrying though that they may actually have succeeded with that strategy (at least in the states)
They are. I'm on discord servers with younger people and the amount of right wing memes they post is disturbing. It almost feels like a psyop. But I think right wingers are just the loudest in any setting.
Sometimes what makes me insecure about being a vegan is the immediate association with hipsters and naturism (the romantization of nature and the natural). Regarding the halal slaughter, to me it's obvious that Le Pen's proposal is racist. From my point of view, all meat-eating must be challenged, not only that of minorities. This is my problem with single-issue campaigns of most animal organizations: they don't advocate for veganism in general, they just oppose particularly "cruel" practices. I'm against justifying animal exploitation on the basis of cultural differences. At the same time, I refuse to support campaigns targeting minorities. I'm for promoting veganism for all.
Not just hipsters, there are even a lot of eco-fascists (who would love Le Pen's fake environmentalism) who are staunchly vegan. That shouldn't stop you though, there are enough progressive/leftist vegans to take inspiration from, and my reading into anarchist ideas has also made me consider veganism (although I'll just start slowly and maybe stop at vegetarianism for practical reasons)
@@KarlSnarks If you're doing it from a philosophical POV to not support cruelty and death, then vegetarianism is pretty much an oxymoron. There's no industrial production of animal products that doesn't involve death and suffering.
While veganism is the best way to ensure animal welfare and preserve our environment, halal slaughtering is not as inhumane as the west claims. It is based on cleanliness and not making the animal suffer more than needed. The animal is cut with a very sharp knife ensuring a quick death. Animals are not supposed to be slaughtered in front of each other, so they don't die in fear. They should be brought up in a healthy and clean environment and nursed back to health if they fall sick before slaughtering. This is something a lot of "more civilized" factory farming does not provide. I do agree that not numbing the animal before slaughtering does cause more pain but it is an older practice. The blood of the animal is not removed because of ritualistic causes but to prevent illness and parasites.
@@Ermude10 I don't disagree that milk and egg production i.e. are very exploitative in the current system of industrialized farming, but again I have some practical considerations about going fully vegan I'd need to feel out (what the options are for non-leather semi-orthopedic shoes, if i can get a balanced diet with all macro-micro nutrients etc.), and I do think there is ethical ways to gain by-product food of animals (not meat and leather though, unless an animal dies of natural causes). I also think systemic activism against animal exploitation is more helpful than perfecting your personal veganism, just like how we don't expect individuals to be perfectly carbon-neutral to fight climate change.
I'm against justifying pushing ideologies onto other people. I think it's better to let people just live in peace instead of badgering them with things they don't want. Vegan or no vegan, it should be the choice of the individual, not a result of peer pressure or marketing.
I remember a while back a tweet blew up about how surprising it was to one Twitter user that their ultra-conservative boomer relatives were once Woodstock hippies. Obviously the replies were full of people corroborating the Tweet and shitting on boomers, but someone used the phrase "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" and it has always stuck to me.
Ashamed to say I used to consider myself “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” in late high school/very early college as I started taking Econ classes. Thankfully I kept taking them and saw what BS was holding together basically all US economic policy. The graphing is still pretty though 🥲
“Die Yuppy Die” a great song from the 90’s Australian band “Painters and Dockers” (named after a militant waterfront union with strong underworld links in the 80’s and 90’s
Hey, I kinda dress like that, but I am no hipster, I am a country boy from Quebec where flannel shirts are culture. Such shirts are good for working at farms as they give a better protection against the sun, elements and makes lifting things more comfortable for your arms.
Hi Alice Capelle. FYI I really appreciated your 'hipster turned conservative' video above. You touch upon many important things; it's a pity that your topics are so serious and important sometimes that you cannot joke. I don't use the word 'conservative' in the sense that you are doing in the video, but I think you understand, the same word can mean different things, and meaning can be conveyed in many different ways. Anyway, I am afraid to play my music in the car sometimes because I worry that it will affect listeners, though doubtless they are affected in many ways. And this may be projection simply because you are Gallic French in one definition, but you might have something in common with those sophisticated persons who ran 'salons' in 1780s et al. Paris (this is a compliment). They were all older women I think, otherwise it would make their life too complicated. Thank you. Also, I have the best taste in music!
I feel exposed! I wanted to convey a unique identity while riding fixed gear bicycles in Boston in 2008-2012. We were monocultural and mostly from the suburbs of Boston😂
I don't think hipsters became conservative, I think young conservatives who were likely to be conservative anyway, appropriated for the sake of marketing. Many capitalist companies saw this as well and that's why you see mason jars and Edison bulbs in chain restaurants long after the trend had past. I think it should also be noted that there is not only one type of hipster, there are several types of hipsters. In the late aughts/early 2000s it wasn't just that people did not want to be labeled as hipster, but it was also hard to define. There were hipsters who were a-political, leaned more American Apparel party sleaze (now known as indie sleaze), but there were also hipsters who were more into whismy, arts and crafts, and microbrewing. There were some who were into a more avant garde art and lifestyle, etc. Lastly, and I see someone already mentioned him, but Gavin Mcinnes of Vice paved the way for conservative hipsters. Having been to Vice parties myself, known Vice writers, photography interns. and videographers - there was a definite tone to the brand of hipster he was pushing out. It was dark, gritty, and meant to be sleazy. I wouldn't go so far to say he is the godfather of the modern hipster, but he was definitely one of the gatekeepers and trendsetters, and it was definitely under a misogynist's gaze. Also, you might want to have a look at this review LA Times Review of "Look at This F*cking Panel: A Sociological Investigation of the Hipster." Notice that the title is "What Do Hipsters and Pornography Have In Common?" The UCLA panel itself featured notable hipsters of the time, which includes Gavin Mcinnes. www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/jacket-copy/story/2010-10-12/what-do-hipsters-and-pornography-have-in-common
Every video is so thought-provoking and refreshing! It delves deep into profound ideas and challenges conventional thinking in a digestible and engaging way. It's videos like these that remind us of the power of thought and the importance of insightful discussion.
Having lived in New York City my entire life, the hipster was always conservative lite. Their liberalism only extended to white ability to come into an era and colonize it for the “diverse” culture. I Experienced more racism as a Latino from hipster liberal whites than I ever did in my times in the southern red states where you would expect that stuff.
Gavin McInnes, the founder of the proud boys, also considers himself the godfather of hipsterdom. That's why I shave my beard and dress like shit, definitely not because my beard sucks or because I'm poor.
Yeah, and on the more 'innocent' side of conservatism, it reminded me immediately of The Art of Manliness, a lifestyle blog/site that started in the early 10's that kinda advocates for trad-life values. Nothing very hateful, just sometimes slightly misogynist and romanticizing the past and 'warrior' stuff. On a positive note, they are very in favor of affection in close male friendships.
I lived near Portland Oregon for a few years around 2012. One thing I noticed about Hipsters was that they seemed like they took the "small-town thinking" and moved it into the city. They claimed to be all open-minded, but they were just as hostile to outsiders as the stereotypical people from rural America. They claimed to be all non-conformist, but they all looked like carbon copies of each other, just like a lot of people from small-town America. Oh, the irony.
I wish you had looked back further and made the parallel between the Hipster aesthetic and the ‘Dandy’ of the 1800s. It’s not that they dressed to the nines like Dandies did, but “my appearance is an outward sign of my superior culture and intellect” was 100% what it was signaling. It was also a catch-all edginess that was easily worn which is why it got ‘ruined’ when it went main stream and just became default fashion. The speed at which it became mainstream was the reason Hipsters didn’t want the label even if they wanted the ‘cultured/educated’ social credit for the look. On another note regarding conservative Hipsters: the intellectual generation of conservatives I grew up with (Protestant, Midwest, but hungry for knowledge and extremely well read) were acutely insecure about being perceived as closed-minded and ignorant, so we went hard after this aesthetic.
Your Spotify playlist is actually pretty solid ngl. Minor note, the jazz movement you referred to is called Bebop, not Bepop. Living up to my hipster aesthetic with the “well actually” take, sorry 😂 Love your content!
Great video. If you look a little bit into their funders you realise how shallow their commitment to environmentalism is and how their present commitment is just a smokescreen.
Your videos are revelations for me. You articulate those processes what I see, I feel but I never had a language or the form to express myself, i always thought of these but I never been able to talk about these, really cool point of view, thank you.
god damn. your titles sounds same as my very last thoughts about society every time you post a video. thank you for not feeling lonely with my thougts and last observation. its like a finding a friend in France
As a native New Yorker who lived through the Hipster Invasions of the 90’s and 00’s I have observed them in the wild. One thing I learned was a Hipster will never admit that he’s a Hipster. It’s always someone else who are Hipsters.
While i disagree with the broad generalization of hipsters becoming conservative, it was insightful to consider all the ways the right appropriates leftist culture. From phrases like "hands off my body" from abortion to vaccines, to every white person's favorite black person MLK, to the organizing tactics of the Blank Panthers, we seem to have a lot of examples of that reappropriation to the right. It did not occur to me until this video that a lot of conservatives have been touching that cool hipster appeal the flannel shirt, the rugged look, the suave speech... Hipster culture like vegan stuff and vinyl or grunge hasn't hit conservative mainstream yet (and hopefully never will) but the right will take whatever works for the left to their own gross benefit Merci beaucoup Alice!
You are remarkably insightful. I’m skeptical of the essay genre of RUclips videos in general (even while I consume it frequently) … but without sacrificing accessibility you cover topics expertly, lucidly, truthfully, and engagingly. The world feels less lonely knowing people like you exist and contribute your thought to it! I feel like I should write your parents or your school system a thank you note, but I suppose your own hard work deserves most of the credit. Please keep up the excellent work!!
It's spelled and pronounced "Bebop". Otherwise, great video!
Oops!
She pronounced it right? It's bee-bop.
@@xiomaraa I mean, I heard "bepop." Not a big deal though.
@@TeagueChrystie please forgive her, she didn't choose to be born French
@@julianquezada5050it’s good to know
wow surprised there was no mention of gavin mcinnes. he's considered the godfather of modern hipsterdom and co founded vice magazine back in the 90s. he maintained that OG hipster aesthetic after he left vice, started the proud boys, and became the neo fascist everyone knows him as today. he was doing this kind of thing before it was cool lol
Yes. He is the epitome of what’s being discussed in the video but he was entirely skipped over
He's not that special; there's no need to flatter him for being thoroughly derivative and happening to run a prominent company before melting down.
@@Dafnessific it wouldnt be flattery, it would be accurate to what actually happened lol. doesnt matter if you think he's an idiot or lunatic, he was influential and a significant part of this whole thing
That last line 😂
Yeah I thought she was gonna mention him, he’s the pinnacle of this type of thing.
The term “Yuppie” was created in the 80’s by mass media to contrast with the “Hippies” of the ‘60s. The common trope was that the hippies had grown up, rejoined mainstream society, and become materialistic. BTW, the term “Hippie” was initially a diminutive of “Hipster” implying that they were just kids who liked to play hipster as opposed to the serious, deep, artistic hipsters of the ‘50s like Jack Kerouac.
This deserve so many likes!☝️ I've always been bothered by this obsession of the 70s being the start of "progressivism" when the 50s and 60s are more than meets the eye.
I disagree slightly with your first statement Mike. You are referring to what would become a 'Boomer' or a Richard Branson type. How could you be a Young Urban Professional if you were already over 30 at the beginning of the 80's?
Yuppies were my generation. We were taught Macroeconomics at school level and encouraged to get a job in 'The City' Then Black Monday came in '87 and we all started taking bucket loads of Ecstacy instead of Cocaine and became labelled as 'Yippies'. The 90's were the 60's regurgitated. Although I'm speaking from a Londoncentric perspective and the Yuppie's true home was NYC.
Most old boomer hippies I know are now trad cons.
I think "Yuppie" first appeared in Chicago magazine, describing my parents
I casually referred to my father as having been a hippie once and he was so offended, almost like it was a slur. He saw hippies as basically just hipsters, reproducing a counter-cultural affect and aesthetic but vapid and politically empty at best. To his mind they were kinda useless, undisciplined, underprepared, risking little, and sometimes actively detrimental, to the radical civil rights and black empowerment work he was doing.
I was absolutely noticing this trend in the 2010s and particularly in churches. When the Lumineers, and Mumford and Sons achieved peak popularity was when Contemporary Christian Music adopted a similar sound (much in the same way they tried with U2 and Coldplay before it.)
I specifically remember the MOST rigid-calvanist churches picking up on this the most. These were the churches that would go to bat for hell, and God's plan to make people predestined for eternal damnation while also framing themselves as the "cool church."
Tattoos became okay, talking about how much you loved coffee and beer became cultural signifiers, and every man tried to adopt the beard and glasses look of a Gavin McGinnis. It really sucked and I think at the time it showed how toothless the aesthetic was.
I think it shows more how toothless modern Christianity is in America. It is truly nothing but a country club to signal virtue of the wealthy to each other while they look down upon all the poors in their community and refuse to interact with them.
I mean, it's just a look and the whole point was that it was fun and non-threatening. Way easier for churches to deal with than goth or heavy metal
Oh my God, yes. At the same time, Target started carrying the _Hearth & Hand with Magnolia_ line by Chip and Joanna Gaines. My sisters drag me to these Mumford and Sons inspired churches, I drew the line when a pastor literally cited Jordan Peterson in a sermon. It is the most pretentious and obnoxious way I can think of to sell fascism. I just beg off now-no one in these congregations, including my sisters, will achieve self-awareness because of anything I say.
@@carolyntalbot947 holy shit, Yes, everything that comes from these place will be a future death cult.
But actual Hipsters were not listening to Lumineers. Nobody in Brooklyn, Portland, LA switched on to that , because
Lumineers & Mumford & Sons were catering to a frew new young yuppie class that was descended from the post EMO's who were trying to emulate Instagram trends that descended from the hipster of 2008.
No actual Hipster from Brooklyn in 2014 had Lumineers & Mumford & Sons in their catalogue. In 2014, your average actual hipster was listening to CVRCHES, Tame Impala, Beach House, The Voidz.
You are thinking of Midwest Emo all grown up that went down the alt right Christian pipeline of Lumineers & Mumford & Sons.
I've been thinking a lot lately about the hipster friends I used to have who've gone down the alt-right rabbit hole. One other reason I might add is that hipsters and conservatives find value in some idealized past. Hipsters and conservatives are both equally likely to pick a decade past, point to it, and say "see, things were better then."
Is this also true if you love 80s music, like Bronski Beat?
@@BigBellyEd No, because if that's the case it would mean I'm a hipster.
And I sure as hell aint no hipster.... Unless I'm suffering from cognitive dissonance 0_o
@@kapparaaliachself hatred. hipsters always deny that they are hipsters 😂
@@BigBellyEd lol nice try Steve Bronski I know its you
Change friends. Friends should be homogeneous.
I feel in many cases it’s less a transformation and more an expansion. Now that it’s been over a decade, the “hipster aesthetic” has gotten so mainstream that suburban conservatives have also adopted it.
The trends escaped Brooklyn and Portland years ago, every city in the Midwest and south now also has a craft brewery run by guys with mustaches and forest tattoos and a dozen old warehouses turned into brick loft condos.
I agree. My gripe with this kind of video and the academic analyses they cite is that they treat a general observed aesthetic or social idea as a single entity and the people within it as a consistent group. Any changes in the aesthetic or idea is attributed to the people themselves changing, not the membership of the group shifting over time.
Indeed. One could view conservatives adopting the hipster aesthetic as a cause of recouperation, the process by which dangerous or non-confirming things become safe. (You could also view it as the inverse because now the normie find conservatism weird and dangerous and mainstream liberalism safe and ordinary.)
If you look at the way conservative people dressed by the mid-1970s, they adopted fashion and styling trends that would have signified hippiedom a decade beforehand, such as long hair for men or wearing bold flamboyant colors.
Yeah. Craft beer is definite hipsterdom.
totally spot on. When the French are being academic on a topic they know nothing of and confusing younger people, this is irating.
The Hipster overall was not that big in america, unless you were in Brooklyn, Echo Park or Portland, there were was no hipster subculture in America.
Instagram was blowing up at this point and sot thats why in 2018 you suddenly saw this boom in Veganism and craft beer, but it came from a sub culture of 2008, that had already grown up.
You even read this sentiment among the real/authentic hipster blogs/journals like Brooklyn Vegan, The Hipsterunoff (Carles) , that the hipster dream/ the dream of portland died in 2015 and that the yuppies/ normies were aborsbing it... but that the whole subgrenere was never meant to be taken seriously , and that it was corporations themselves who invented this 'hipsterism' ; zoey deschanel, pitchfork, craft beer in 2012.
This video is just so wrong on so many levels.
@@Magnulus76 It weird because in the mid 2000s, most hipsters were drinking Pabst and Tecates.
In my country,Argentina,the hipster aesthetic is associated with quasi-liberal pretentious millenials that think they're eco-conscious when they're really not and live on a daily dosis of speciality coffee and IPA
jajajaj
Being eco conscious as individuals is a myth peddled by conservatism and the oil companies. There's only so much the individual can do, such as only ride a bike, and only eat from their own garden. When 97% of carbon emissions, or whatever it is, comes from military, heavy industry, corporations, and distribution, the only impact individuals can really have on the grand scheme is how they vote. Everything else is secondary pertaining to their individual life style choices or what temperature their home is. It's like a single mission or training mission of a fighter jet is the equivalent of several years of a personal automobile. With the US at least, the single largest entity carbon footprint is the military. Next up is Amazon and Walmart, distribution companies, and the energy companies themselves. Yeah it adds up and we all can pitch in and help, but if we could end militarism, find a carbon neutral means of distribution, and have the oil industry forced to invest in renewables, we'd stand a chance. Private consumers are the smallest part of it. The main things needed in the US are a sustainable energy grid, and a means to operate all transportation on it as well, then behind that is home, business, and industrial energy demands from heating and cooling. Either there are mass movements and big enough governments to force capital and industry's hands, or capital and industry forces itself, or theres a mass popular movement to go back to agrarianism. It will be too late to prevent climate change, but industry has already begun mobilizing. There's only like 50 years of known, reachable oil reserves left, and only about 100 years of known uranium reserves left. Unless there's a market driven answer to replace these power grids and energy infrastructures, we'll all be vegan hipsters riding on bikes eating out of our gardens soon anyway, home brewing our IPA.
El hippie con OSDE jaja
This is exactly the same as the UK, but they will drink beers with names like BillyBobRazorBladeBru
I'm from Portland, OR USA. It's the exact same except it's EVERYWHERE in gentrified neighborhoods. Like Portland is known for its IPA's and microbreweries.
Plot twist: they've always been conservative.
definitely not, they were very much an anarchist liberal subgroup in the mid 2010s
@@molls127 anarchist and liberal are oxymorons
@@molls127 "Liberal" = conservative with a pink face.
@@swkanapseudo-lumberjack aesthetics that go in hand with reactionary nostalgia for agrarian euro-anglo modes of life
comment done by hipsters gang
I knew a guy in my friend group years ago who was the epitome of hipster. He was obsessed with picking all of his consumption habits to differentiate himself from others around him. It was infuriating to interact with him because he was so focused on showing how cool he was rather than building friendships with our group. I haven't thought about him in a long time, but it makes sense why no one wants to be called a hipster now.
I never really thought of the hypocrisy of the 2010s hipster. They’re so obsessed with being different that they all become carbon copies of each other. They become exactly what they despise.
Yeah that's the joke. That's how they got the name hipster.
But it's actually a perfectly good thing. It's people who are espousing there's intervalle use and expressing themselves without fear. And if they find others who think along the same lines, more power to them. It's not just about being an individual. It's also about being true to themselves and having integrity and culture.
Our joke was "you can tell how much of a hipster someone is by how much they hate other hipsters"
They believe in shared culture and local small scale self created DIY from both hippies and punks.
I went to a Sigur Ros concert 1 or 2 years ago and that band still seems to attract the same people they did 10-15 years ago i.e. people who dress alternative and free-spirited but are complete conservative normies. When everyone dresses the same weird way, is it still weird? Or is it a uniform?
A similar thing happened with the hipster's parents, the baby boomers/hippies. Their nonconformist subculture turned into the first tech bros (e.g., steve jobs) of the world. So it makes sense that the hipsters would go down a similar path.
You seem to be a savvy person. Well, I'm sorry but, there's never been such thing as "nonconformism". What you're referring has been corrupted then manufactured, to make us bath into the illusion of control toward the quest of "progress". As you seems willing to pay attention to (social) patterns, I invite you to look at Bernay work in the"the century of the self", then the last words of JFK. The political spectrum is a decoy... monsters do exist and they love power like a shark loves blood... Go take a look at Sound of Freedom and what Jim Caviezel, Tim Ballard have to say about it, what the first tech bros allowed to happen...
Soooo true!
The Californian Ideology. Techno-libertarianism. Jobs and Woz first project was selling blue boxes (2600 hz tone generators; telephone hacking devices) out of a garage.
Hipsters aren't a generation, and thus their parents are not a generation.
She covers your point with the part on Yuppies(Jobs, Gates are examples of Yuppies... or "professional hipster").
I hope you have a beautiful day 😍
My experience with "Hipster-dom" (as an observer of the subculture here in America) leaves me with the impression that it has always been a somewhat derided and mocked aesthetic, with most people finding its adherents to be insufferably smug, self-congratulatory, trying way too hard to be "cool", and ultimately very superficial. It's no surprise, therefore, that Alt-Right conservative personalities have taken the lifestyle onboard, as many of them are much the same.
This! Yeah I also find that a lot of the old punks turned into hipsters as well.
@@Alaskan-Armadillo Speaking of punks, a lot of the establisment of old punk are now conservative.
This also happens to me. I was kinda hipster in the sense that I love a lot of stuff that the normal people in my province don't know, so I go to the internet forums in order to gush out about my favorites. I was often gatekeep by a lot of snubs, and that made me sad because I really wanted to have a fandom talk. Those gatekeepiness really parallels those conservative ideologist. That they are the ones who must only love those things, and you are not a part of it.
The one thing I also hate about them is the sold-out idea that they will start hating the band when they become famous. Like, they still want those bands to be like starving artist. They are really the opposite of socialism.
Yea I find this to be the case for the whole left as well. Nothing spells hipster narc like your avg university leftie.
It was always performative counter-culture that at the same time was obsessed with how others thought of them. It was counter-culture terrified of going against mainstream culture. Seeing as how conservatives now are saying that being cis and straight is now unpopular and frowned upon, and pretending all their bigotry is them being "brave" about speaking up, I can believe they're the same people. They're obsessed with the idea of being a "special minority of people", and they think anyone who they think currently holds that spot, which in their minds is gay and trans people, must have the same attention-grabbing motivations as them.
Counter-culture is never admired in the contemporary time it exists in. Whatever is considered "cringe", looked down on, or considered downright illegal and coupled with a worthwhile cause, is more likely to be counter-culture than a self-branding with that label based on superficial traits.
Conservatives adopting slightly more "hip" attire doesn't make them a hipster, nor does economic nationalism- which they've always espoused.
Or The Hipster was always conservative at heart. It was usually young white people from wealthy backgrounds being tourists in subcultures and underground environments that originally belonged to a much poorer class and formed by their marginalized inhabitants. And as firm believers in the meritocracy and their place at the top of it, they turned their novel interests in arts and academia into a competition, and one they were already pretending to excel at.
@@gwen9939 if you're under the impression that the bourgeois aren't associated with 'liberalism' and that only conservatives engage in appropriation, then you've entirely failed to understand both Marxism and post-colonialism.
[this person still thinks liberalism is left wing and that capitalism doesn't have a counter-culture quota so the workers don't revolt because they have rainbows on their products and can buy communist merch]
It's not just conservatives becoming hipsters. Most of the hipsters I know were liberal when they were younger and then turned into crypto/techbro libertarians as they started making more money/acquiring property. They simply held onto the aesthetic. It's our generation's version of the conservative hippie.
Maybe hipsterism itself is just a shallow aesthetic thing. The deep politics behind it can vary with a degree of independence.
The Hispter lifestyle is something that requires a lot of free time and disposable income. Only the kids from wealthy families become the what is the most popular or familiar versions of what a Hipster is. Underneath the pretentiousness, they always knew that wealth was what made it all possible. With aging out of their 30's, they aspire to be more like their 1%ers parents.
I'm not sure if you know, but the basis of hipsters in New York were millennials who had so much money and time from the wealth of their boomer parents, they just spent it shirking off and getting so wrapped up in their consumerism it became their identity, and thus hipsters were born. The original hipsters were all trust fund babies.
Def a high maintenance lifestyle when done ‘right’
It’s literally an aesthetic where all your clothes are second hand and you live in a run down studio apartment where the bricks are showing through the Sheetrock “exposed brick”. It’s literally designed for the crushing poverty in the post recession era of the 2010s
@@LucasFernandez-fk8sethink it depends what side of hipster-dom you lean toward. If you’re a mustache- or beard-waxing, leather loafer-wearing, fancy coffee- and beer-drinking hipster, it’s not cheap. But I was young when 2010s hipsters first appeared, so maybe they evolved into being more expensive/consumerist.
@@Anna-dd4rhit is pretty interesting how *that* side of the hipster movement took over and became the popular image. Thinking back to early hipster ness, it was more about skinny jeans and too-small T-shirts
I'm a veteran communist in my 60's and have seen many social trends and fashions in music, clothes; indeed all manner of lifestyle/image things aiming to project progressive views.
I've never been able to afford to follow any of them but have seen how they create divisions, often violent, between eco-warriors, anarchists, communists,socialists, ethnic groups, lgtb+ etc. At the fundamental level our fight is the same but these divisions via phoney appropriation of progressive causes are immensely profitable for conservatives.
As far as leftists wanting to buy local, I think it's much less to do with a distaste for globalism as it is just knowing that it's easier to know that things are ethically sourced when they come from local distributers within our own communities. I think we want globalism in the sense of an interconnected and united world, but still with locally sourced and grown foods, goods, and services for ethics and sustainability purposes. I think this also simultaneously helps fight big corps and monopolies in certain ways as well.
I agree, most anyone not in a concrete hell knows the difference in flavor of a tomato grown far away in a corporate mega farm and one you eat fresh off of the vine growing in the dirt by your house. The exclusion of the elephant in the room, climate change caused by massive burning of fossil fuels is also concerning in the deductions of people's motivations to desire a less "globalized" economy. Those fruits and vegetables dont just magically appear in the local supermarkets, a lot of them are shipped on supercontainer ships that consume massive amounts of fossil fuels. Let's not get into the farming and harvesting practices for many of the goods we like to consume from faraway lands either. These assumptions on group psycology seem to oversimplify the motivations for peoples' opinions and desires, but may make sense when identifying political and thought leaders who have an increased influence on peoples' perception of the world and themselves.
yeah but most of the ingredients used by locals come from other countries, at this point is imposible to scape Globalism
For me hipsters never really had a political ideology one way or another. My first encounters I thought they were progressive because of their seeming counter culture anti tradition bend even though they were wearing traditional clothing via thrift stores, but I met more than enough of them which were conservatives who'd call me slurs as "jokes" and held less than favorable views on minorities and immigrants, and they were young fresh faced people who were still "cool", not the old craggly conservative that is often depicted. It was kinda the first moment I realized my preconceptions on who follows what political ideology were just wrong.
Closest ideology I associate with hipsters is nihilism. The movie "The Comedian" is one everyone should watch and to me portrays the epitome of hipsterdom.
@@chazdomingo475 Does Taxi Driver count too?
Yes omg. So many “jokes” like that :( I’ve experienced that too from hipsters who think it’s okay bc really their “on your side”
There has always been a conservative vibe to hipsters
Hipsterism is definitely very close to yuppieism and conservatism. If we consider the definition of hipsterism to be the obsessive cultivation of one's "brand" and image, that act is something closely related to privilege. Their ability to cultivate their image is closely tied with the maintenance of their privilege and the power structures that support it. Otherwise everything comes crashing down. A lot of these "tech bros" pretty quickly can rally behind fascism, or the rigid enforcement of the status quo, all in service of their egoism.
The tech bros are yuppies; it's just "tech" instead of finance (and half of them are in 'fin tech'). Crypto has been Bonfire of the Vanities: Shithead Edition. "Cultivation of image" is not uniquely the domain of conservatism, that is a strange and unsupportable position. Just because fascism is concerned with aesthetics does not make all aesthetics fascist.
@@Dafnessific I wouldn't say that a focus on aesthetics makes one a fascist, but that self-cultivation on the level of narcissism and egoism is a major sign of having an "authoritarian personality" , which does make one more vulnerable to fascist propaganda and rhetoric.
@@lucaskane5364 Nonsense. Consider the subcultures associated with 'camp.' Read some Stuart Hall ('Resistance Through Rituals.') Or more or less any queer theory.
@@lucaskane5364 Okay hipster
Honestly I think the left is wayy more obsessed with their identity and having to label and self diagnose everything.
everytime i think of a hipster all i can think of is like a white christian youth pastor 💀
@@olg.__you when you realize people who ascribe to a surface level aesthetic aren’t a hive mind -> 😱
@@olg.__ Not necessarily, conservative hipsters tend to be christian or appreciate christian-inspired values, and I'm sure there are more liberal hipsters who get into Buddhism or Paganism or whatever.
Islamic hipsters too.
y'all would call Hitler a hipster if he turned up in a cardigan and skinny jeans
@@Dafnessific Wouldn't he be though, hipster is not mutually exclusive to nazi (just look at the Proud Boys founder, Gavin McInnes). It's an aesthetic with some sub-culture elements, and can easily be coopted
As a Canadian hipster in the 2010s the subculture gave me permission to focus locally and be anti-american just a little bit. In a place so heavily influnced by our neighbour, the idea on local economy, Culture, and arts was a way to engage with the community and is somewhat an essential part of the "canadian identity" (big astrix there on what it means to be Canadian). Living in a very conservative culture and community (alberta) the hipster ideas of the 2010s were progressive and challenged the statues quo while being accessable in the global converstaion and economically with a focus on old tech and second hand clothes. By collecting records I was able to connect with an older generation by pulling from what they would give to me and having converstaions about their media and parts of relevant cultural history. The conservative bend is new to me as "hipster" has drifted away in the last 5ish years in my understanding of local cultures, while I am not surprised, it is concerning the the idea of connecting with those around you has been reformed into exculsuonary ideology.
Trends like "hipsters" always exclude those who can't afford to join in.
Could it just be that hipsters are getting older? Like when a lot of boomers who were a lot more progressive & anti-establishment when they were younger, over time became more and more right wing? Maybe it could also be related to how the word "libertarian" shifted from a left-wing term into a right-wing one in the US? It started around the 50s but I still feel like there's been a pretty dramatic shift in the past decade.
exactly. conservatism is related to age in any case.
A lot of the hipsters from the 2000s-2010s were closet (or not) conservative the whole time. Look at people like Gavin McInnes and Ariel Pink.
Probably not, as millennials are the first recorded generation to (at least in the US and UK) grow less conservative with age. Gen-Z is following the same trend although they're still too young to make conclusions
@@annaphallactic Yeah that's true, but it wouldn't explain why there's a shift across all hipsters in general.
@@KarlSnarks Well that sounds very hopeful!! I know I've stepped left away from liberal as I got older. Do you know where I can find the study? I tried searching for it, but the articles that came up didn't have a link to the source.
Basically Salvador Dali effect. Lot of people in art scene become reactionaries when they achieve wealth and fame at older age.
Being an influencer is in part an art.
So by older age you mean his 30s
Salvador Dali become reactionare before that.
Dali early on had a brief flirtation with anarchist politics through Andre Breton and other surrealist artists but quickly switched over during ww2
Weird how success and maturity are correlated with being right wing.
I’m a self identified hipster, and have considered myself as such since about 2011, and as I’ve gotten older I’ve become more radically left wing. I would also argue that this is most probably the case for most aging millennial hipsters. Whereas I started out being a sort of “socialist” type, I’d now identify myself as an anarcho-syndicalist.
I think it’s also worth mentioning, that a lot of things that retrospectively have been assigned as being ‘hipster’, for me feel off the mark. A big one is this association with hipsters as being this craft beer and coffee consuming snobs. I can tell you that as a broke 22yo hipster living in Chicago during the craft beer boom I drank PBR and cheap whiskey almost exclusively, and recall this being the de facto choice for hipsters at the time. During that time I also worked at craft beer places and the clientele was almost exclusively regular cargo shorts wearing suburban dudes that made enough money to spend $9 on a beer. Just because you spotted some hipsters working at a craft beer bar doesn’t mean craft beer is/was a hipster thing. Likewise with coffee. Hipsters work at 3rd wave coffee shops, but the clientele imo is mostly tech bros/brodettes.
I’ve noticed in the comments that people are focused a lot on there being a specific aesthetic and I also think that’s off the mark. In my opinion the most important aspect of hipster culture is/was always the music. The hipster aesthetic imo was always informed by music, esp indie music, mixed with the general trends of the #menswear era, and has evolved as fashion has evolved. I think to just lump any person you see with a flannel shirt, tattoos, and doc martens into the category hipster is an oversimplification.
TL;DR the things you call hipster, might not actually be, and as the failures of capitalism become more manifest, hipsters are becoming more left wing.
To support your comment, “hipster aesthetic” has also been commodified and sold to people via fast fashion retailers like Urban Outfitters. So, people that can afford clothing that needlessly expensive and low quality end up having the hipster look, where the original hipster look came from thrifting, swapping clothes with friends, hand me downs from relatives, etc. As you said, this resulted in a look that is marketed as “hipster “ and doesn’t match what real hipsters actually wear.
Yeah it's kind of really annoying look into these comments and seeing how everybody is calling hipsters conservative. When that couldn't be further from the truth. It's really ridiculous and disheartening how stupid people are.
Also as a side note that you said brodettes instead of just sisters
that copium brother
Do you know what’s funny? The fact that all you hipsters are upper middle class and pathologically left-wing is actually what made me a conservative out of the class resentment you caused through gentrification
Great point. The root has always been music.
"Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would *critique* capital end up *reinforcing* it instead. " - Joyce Messier, Disco Elysium
The best video game that analyzes the complexities of all social identities and how local politics feed into global politics. Also you can solve crimes wearing nothing but a talking necktie that peer pressures you into doing speed.
This quote is kinda self defeating if you think about it tho
Well, Disco Elysium is not exactly an oasis of optimism
Translation: It's over for Com-cels
Ah mediocre philosophy quotes for leftists a true masterpiece for wannabe intellectuals
As someone who could probably be seen as "hipstery" sometimes, a lot of hipsterism is virtue signalling. It's not enough to have certain values and taste and opinions, you have to make it very clear so that everyone sees it and understands that you are someone who truly stands for those things and therefore unique and interesting...
And often the signaling is done through consumerism marketed that way.
So a liberal
Can we please stop saying virtue-signaling. It's just hate speech. You should know that by now
Combo of virtue signalling for the values thing, and regular signalling for the rest of it.
i mean, is this really a hipster thing? i feel like virtue signaling is something everyone has to participate in.
As someone who was a hipster in my 20s and 30s, I think the major cocaine use in those scenes was a massive red flag. Heavy cocaine use also accompanied Reaganism and its popularity seems to be connected to right wing shifts in culture.
There are people who do coke and unironically support Reagan? I don't mean to sound mean but that sounds like the scene you were in. Almost all the coke users I know hate Reagan.
i love stimulants of all varieties and am both economically and socially extremely left wing
@@bayleyasher Yea this is weird. Not only is the Reagan type the 'war on drugs' one, Reagan himself publicly advised against people carrying loaded weapons on the streets. Maybe just more hypocrisy
@@Alaskan-Armadillo For me it seems that those two things go very well together.
@@bayleyasher you do know you're funding colombian white ring militaries by doing cociane? They're still killing a large number or indigenous people in colombia to take their land for cocaine. Then the the police raid it and the land becomes a coffee plantation. If you're a leftist you know how selfish it is to do cocaine.
You’ve got it backwards. The conservatives turned hipster because they’re 10 years behind us.
Hipster aesthetic also has always looked back.
15-20 years, but yeah that was my view too
I don’t think so being a black woman who used to spend time in hipster spaces, they were always not what they preached. Hardly any BIPOC in site. I remember seeing a hipster band I liked and it was a fairly open venue. And they looked at me after the show like they were confused I was there. They were one of those NY bands.
@@dnikkithatsame5990what's BIOPIC?
I think this is legitimately the right take
"superficial" is a word that i feel like we've lost and should use again more. that perfectly described what being a hipster was and is: superficial and looking to broadly appeal to others by way of a "look"
It was the superficial understanding of them that you are exhibiting.
Just a comment to praise how you unwrap the ideas, the video flows very easily. In addition to the knowledge, you communicate very well. Great job, Alice Capelle!
The characters featured on the thumbnail were never really hipsters. It's a costume change for expanding their audience demographic. People of the hipster generation have actually moved more towards the left as they grew older due intergenerational inequalities. That said, everyone has a price. You can turn any hipster with bribes, status, and a comfortable life. As the saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them."
In the Anglo world they do, but in the EU that is a different story.
well Johnny Harris is kinda a hipster but he isn’t a conservative. Literally whatsoever.
Hipsterism has basically just always been a neo liberal reflection where an individual counters against a cultural norm. Other iconoclastic movements (like the punk movement) differ from hipsterism because they're rooted in breaking down mainstream society to empower collective impact. Yes, hipsters have drifted in which social issues they criticize, but hipsters always buy into individual empowerment bootstrap ideology. Hipsters haven't changed, at least not in the last 3 or 4 generations.
Hipsterism is just bourgeois decadence.
The irony of what you said is that the only time I see people self-identify as punk today is extreme right-wingers. They are not very smart though.
Punk was originally heterodox and politically non-affiliated then the insufferable leftists and marxists co-opted it.
So excited to read your book when it's ready! Always love your choice of topics and your thoughtful analysis
it makes my heart so happy to see you sharing all sociological theories in every single video! they are the best! more should know them!
as a black alt american who was very much around hipsters in the early 2010’s they’ve always been racist- er… i mean conservative.
I’ve definitely seen that myself, but that doesn’t paint a complete picture.
During that same time period I lived in the South; my friends and I were low economic status and championed progressive beliefs and actions. We were called hipsters during that time for wearing atypical fashion bought at thrift stores, dumpster-dived, restoring furniture and bikes, and shopping local when possible.
The point is, everyone is someone else’s hipster.
the problem with people like many hipsters is they build their left wing ideas over what they perceive to be the correct persona and off a lack of life experience and instead off how much left wing academia they have read.
I’m Lakota, and I agree - I think it’s just white liberals who think they “turned conservative”. And let’s be real white liberals are pretty centrist and still racist.
Where have YOU been around hipsters? As a New yorker, I doubt you guys even know a hipster if you see one...
@@JUDALATION ok colonizer. And I can tell you’re a colonizer by your astounding arrogance that because of the city you are from (on stolen land) that you know everything
Can we just take a moment to appreciate these guys being so painfully uncool that they're hipster years after people collectively decided they hated hipsters?
i will never understand the point of hipsters...
@@DanaiHamit nor communists, Psuedo intellectuals, Average University goer.. etc.
Honey it’s just Matt Walsh. She had a picture of Matt and Johnny on there. Matt is right wing and Johnny is left wing. Ben and others aren’t hipsters 🤷♂️. They’re just not. You can argue that they’re not cool but they’re not hipsters
@@Moesmakendehakker658imagine not supporting the working class
@@LucasFernandez-fk8sethey’re hipsters
It's kind of inevitable. I doubt there's a form of noncomformism that hasn't gotten subverted like this. It's more a matter of degree, especially when those who are part of it can slip easily in later life into a more comfortable life, or the differences that made them stand out in their earlier days *seem* to become less relevant as they age, even if it means abandoning those whose identities intersect with their own.
@@KarlSnarks The Man Show was a thing we broadcast on cable not all that long ago. One of those guys is mostly OK now, the other very much isn't.....
@@Dafnessific Only saw clips of The Man Show from the mid-00's, seemed like cringe male-chauvinism but dunno more of it. Who's the not-okay host?
@@KarlSnarks Adam Carolla. Joe Rogan was on time to time too. Jimmy Kimmel somehow made it out mostly intact. That kitschy 50s tiki torch masculinity has since mostly been subsumed by tacticool and etc.
@@Dafnessific Hahaha yeah Joe Rogan definitely did not end up well. Googled Carolla's politics (as I know little about the guy) and it doesn't seem great. Closed borders, against welfare policies, sexist remarks, casual homo/transphobia etc. Not completely MAGA-levels bad, but still.
@@KarlSnarks No, he's full MAGA. Sort of heads up the MAGA comedy circuit, if you can call it that.
One of the arch-hipsters of the 00s is Gavin McInnes, who for the unaware helped found Vice News and after he was ousted from Vice, he went on to become the founder of the Proud Boys.
Also, for heterosexual male chauvinists, the origin story of the name proud boys is the fruitiest shit ever. It comes from a Broadway Aladdin song, I believe McInnes has admitted this out loud at least once.
I had warned my "liberal" friends back in 2010 that "buying local" wasn't as liberal as they thought because they were essentially pumping money back into their mostly insular communities and though it seemed like the antidote to large corporations that moved production to Asia, it was inherently biased in its approach. I got laughed at, of course. 13 years later, here we are and I am not at all surprised. This was the logical end to their obsession with buying local. Extend the argument just a bit - why spend money on others when you can invest in your own. Some of these old "friends" are now suburban conservatives. Many of the supposedly staunch feminists now post only about motherhood and the joys of staying home and shilling MLM products. Sometimes the irony is delicious and other times quite depressing.
What about manufacturing locally? Would that help to support a progressive political idea, or does it just further exacerbate market capitalism's vice grip on our lives? I have to reject anarchic politics as trivially distrustful, but it's hard to imagine change coming from within the system.
@@howwitty No. It's over for Com-cels
staunch feminists simply grew up and had babies:) there is no political agenda hidden
Why are you commies such shills for the globalists? It makes no sense. Do you think we're all gonna be under a Stalin-esque one world government soon? Is that what your utopia looks like? You do know who ends up in the gulag first?
The Charlie Brooker/Chris Morris series 'Nathan Barley' is an amazing comedic critique of the East London hipster from 2005.
The thing with the second wave of hipsterism was that it became unreasonably big, turning into something so hard to define that it basically became everything to everybody, particularly everything they wished to attack. Almost everybody who called other people hipsters would fit some definition of it themselves. Towards the peak of neohipsterism in the mid 10's I was one of few people who might be called as such and not feel particularly offended. I was just a young adult of the recession, meaning that all the vintagey stuff, from clothing to bicycles etc was just my way to be able to do some nice things despite being too poor to normally be able to. Want to study photography, but cannot find the money to buy a DSLR? Just get an old film camera and you'll probably enjoy it more. Cannot buy an expensive new bicycle or hit the nice coffee shops every other day? The answer is obvious. Bored of generic music? So many underground scenes around the world, look for artists that float your boat. That was the mentality in a nutshell and even though there's nothing anticonformist in being a hipster per se, in that context that I'm describing the whole vibe was inherently progressive. And yeah, I just happened to have a beard and like flannel. The thing is, I was always like that. I didn't suddenly wake up to find this was an anthropotype now, or a new target group of impressionable people that would consume new stuff if they emulated this image. Woah, I caught myself trying to make the argument of the authentic hipster, which leads right to the ultimate hypocritic hipster motto: "I liked that before it was cool" lol.
Also, at that time, hardcore leftists suddenly started really hating us and I would tell them that this was so short-sighted and that hipsters were the leftists' best friends. After all, Marxism-Leninism is the ultimate vintage ideology 🙃
Absolutely love your take on this.
Worked with a lad who was exactly one of these. Big beard, heaps o tattoos and a beanie. And he had all these pro environment views while also resenting the polish lads at the job cause they "wouldnt speak english" and "they only had a nice car cause of government handouts". Didnt seem to occur to him that he had a similar car working the same job.
Edit: Forgot but he didnt even technically speak "proper english" cause he spoke doric a scots dialect most english speakers srruggle with lol. Cannae win with these guys.
I've also thought that conservatives, on the whole, are stylistically behind the times because they're less open to change.
Yeahh ig it is conservative to be able to tell the difference between a male and a female
Tellement pas ouvert aux changements.... que noir, blanc, arabe, etc.. on est tous unis..... pendant que vous, vous parlez d’appropriation culturelle, de victimisation, de racisme, de privilèges, de séparation blanc et noir (la ségrégation quel preuve d’union).
Yeah why dont we want our countries looking like Brazil
Say the whites living away from diversity
@@YK36DeadezioWe are not United at all😂
@@deeznutz8320 Ça c’est parce que t’es ni de droite ni français
If a group of people gather wealth and value keeping and benefiting that wealth, along with old 'anti-conformism values', it's not surprising that this happens. An aesthetic can be chosen for many reasons and those may shift in time but still remain coherent.
Way back in the early 1980s, I had an energy executive come outside to where we were protesting plans for a nearby nuclear power plant. He said, "Let me tell you what's going to happen. We're going to buy up all your "flower power" nonsense and then use it to make you all look like clowns. We'll flood the marketplace - which means your voice will be lost and you'll never heard from again. It's called win/win. We love you guys now."
Appropriating ... and then modifying until it is unrecognizable ... is a ploy. Pretty much an evil tactic to irradicate opposition and alternatives. You'll see whenever a group gains enough of a following to present a threat to the status quo.
In the 1990’s we used the word “Hipster” to describe someone with basic knowledge of the counter culture, underground music and film.
People from outside the culture co-opted the word until it became pejorative, and eventually came to mean: someone who adopts the aesthetic of the counter culture without actually being versed in it’s art or history. The opposite of its original meaning. Calling someone a hipster would be tantamount to calling them a poser, which is why no one identifies with that label.
👏
Pretty sure the first certified modern hipster is Morrissey, he checks all the boxes, a role model for being insufferable
Among musicians that are vocal on politics, who gets more things right than Morrissey? Or are you saying that artists should stfu and not ruin their art for you because they're not aligned with you on politics? Who do you side with, Waters or Gilmour?
@@moneypennysloverboy you mean the raging racist who wants Bengalis to not come to Britain while ignoring that he's Irish (and should fuck off back to Ireland by his own logic) gets more things right than other musicians who are vocal about politics? 🤔 Yes, of course. On a serious note, finding someone insufferable doesn't mean they need to shut up. It means the drivel coming out of their mouths can be exhausting.
@@moneypennysloverboy we got a dickrider here , folks
Hahahahahah😂😂😂
His music is dope af though, makes u want to die
Ben Shapiro jump scare 🫣. Thanks for the video Alice!
The argument I've heard is conservatives used to be very intolerant and hipsters were rebellious of that. Ironically the liberals have become extremely intolerant of that intolerance (even if it isn't there) so now there are conservative hipsters who rebel liberal intolerance
It's interesting. I was a hipster. I love music, vinyl, was and probably still am a snob about it. I also never wore that hipster lumberjack look. I was a bit more influenced by the 90's gen x hipster at least aesthetically and in music taste. I never really got around to getting that into millennial hipster music. Though I did love Animal Collective for a time. I just wish I could live closer to more green spaces as my current area in the city was forgotten about by urban planners well before the pandemic- I'd prefer to live in the city centre closer to where the green spaces are in the city even though there are empty luxury condos. I cannot escape into suburbia or conservatism anyway, because I do not have the support, economic opportunities, history of houselessness and drug addiction, not to mention being a trans lesbian. So multiculturalism keeps me safer and keeps me firmly in the urban spaces. Especially right now how I'm being legislated into a second-class citizen for what inherent and immutable quality I have. A lot of men with beards like that tend to sit in tall giant "mid-sized" trucks who honk when they seem me from the back and then yell "F**!" or something if they realise I'm not cis from the front. The middle class conservative hipster could don the the trappings of the counter culture and because of white privilege, generational wealth, economic mobility, etc., leave when the city as it begins to seem less appealing; do a similar white flight my parents and the other boomers did in the 70's to start families in suburbia because the "city is no place to raise a child".
In my experience, "buy local!" was first introduced to my hometown in the early 2000's because our downtown and small businesses were dying from the corporate big box stores like Walmart. It's what urban planners called "the urban donut", which has supposedly is making a resurgence after the pandemic from said modern white flight. It can cause urban decay and hurt small businesses specifically. At the time there was a focus on buying local produce from the farmer's market and wares from small local businesses. To buy from small farms that didn't have to travel far to sell their produce and keep some small retailers alive. A cultural centre. All of this still relies on capitalism and liberalism, but it's an effort to keep small town to city centres alive. Term was developed in the mid-late 20th century when the American mall, strip mall, big box stores came to prominence. There's a documentary on it that Walmart's effect on small town centers. Thus limiting economic options for the citizens, as the job prospects become homogenous and lower paying. There's also a pretty large influence of car culture and suburbanisation in north America specifically, within this effect. So while it wasn't necessarily a nationalist adjacent concept when I was young, cause there was still the idea of "American made" being inherently better after the outsourcing of factory jobs, the shift to neoliberalism, shareholder economics, all about the same time as boomer white flight- I do see how this concept can become nationalistic. Though I feel it's a little more nuanced some respects.
You made a good point about what “buying local” was about. It was a way to fight big corporations and help mom & pop stores. For me, “buying local” and “made in the USA” was a way to help people survive the aftermath of the 2008 recession.
I’m an older millennial, and I noticed plenty of my peers becoming more conservative politically, first by voting for Trump and then adopting a religion. It stems from a false image of left-wing people who stopped advocating free speech and became close-minded. They feel that being right-wing is the new anti-conformity.
I always found it hilarious and ironic that when it was no longer mainstream to be a hipster, the hipsters moved on. It pretty much summed them up.
This hits very, very close to home for me.
I live in a medium-small city in the Northeast of Italy (about the size of Roubaix in France, Bath in the UK, Hildesheim in Germany, Santiago de Compostela in Spain, or Albany, NY in the USA - you get it), my musical tastes are compatible with yours, I literally have a man-bun, short beard, and thick glasses (I AM severely astigmatic tho) and I know exactly what you're talking about.
During the last, say, 3 years, I've noticed many, many people with the same taste in movies or music as me moving sharply right while I was going further left. This was in reaction to "wokeness" and "censorship" in art because holding male artists accountable for the shit they used to get away with before #MeToo is Orwellian I guess? Also lots of complaining about "woke" propaganda contaminating art and way more transphobic "jokes" than I'm comfortable with. I think that, much like what happened with the Star Wars fandom and GamerGate, these are cishet middle-class white people (just like I am) who aren't used to progressive critiques of the art they enjoy, nor to marginalised people (aka "not us") taking part in it, and what does it say about them that their response to all of this is anger, mockery, and disgust?
It was also telling that a music journalist who had been covering punk/alternative music since the early 1980s recently complained on social media about how football players (by football I mean what people in the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand refer to as the s-word) who play in the Italian championship are now forbidden from wearing the number 88 on their jerseys, using terrible scaremongering slippery slope arguments ("are we going to skip 88 when counting from 87 to 89 now?") and claiming that he didn't know 88 was a Nazi dog whistle before the whole story came out (wait until he finds out why 14 is a Nazi dog whistle too). Now, seeing how the Italian football world is a Nazi-infested hellscape and a primary source for far-right recruitment (and we DID have players known for having fascist sympathies who wore the 88 on their jerseys), forbidding the number 88 on football jerseys does look like a gesture that feels like it's going in the right direction but runs very little risk of getting anywhere, but FFS WHAT SIDE ARE YOU EVEN ON, DUDE?
88 is still code for a grand piano, since the standard size has 88 keys. Existed way before that Nazi bullshit, like 100 years longer or even more.
In the end it's just a number and any number has some negative connotation in certain specific contexts.
I’m an American and this was very interesting. Thanks for writing dude.
contrarians became conservative because… progressivism (or ‘wokeness’, if you like…) became corporate and mainstream
Nooooo you can't say thaaaaat😢
also hipsters are interested in revival of outdated tradition, which makes reactionary trends appeal to them, so long as it feels ‘fresh’ or countercultural within the current context
Nope.
Corporations do what corporations do... Try to maximize profits year in and year out and SOME corporate entities have made the choice through advertising and PR to try and accomplish this by widening their appeal to demographics that go beyond the Madison Ave stereotypes from the 1960's.
Also... I'm sorry to tell all the recently minted rebels against corporate power that their bullshit pose to cover up how Whitebread Reactionary they really are is easy to bring to the surface by having a discussion on taxes and regulation.
It's hard to be a Rebel against the corps when you have as immutable "First Principles" the idea that raising taxes on them is the moral equivalent of slavery and any regulation in the public interests is tyranny.
Their collective idiocy will always out itself.
Yep
How can you consider yourself a contrarian if all the things you support are also celebrated by multi billionaire mega corps and the UN.
yes girl u do have the best music taste u didnt lie. oh baby by LCD soudsystem is just incredible ur playlist is gorge
A lot of hipsters I met at n NYC in the early 2010s I knew were already conservative, just by how condescending they are to people of color born in New York.
Yes a hipster is a white male.
That's not being conservative that is being a dick and probably a racist.
Thank you so much for expressing something verbally that has been rattling around in my brain for ages! I was never able to articulate it until your video.
this is so interesting, it made me think about how the definition of "woke" has changed so rapidly, like it means the opposite that it meant 10 years ago... idk i cant even define it anymore
RUclips videos featuring the word "Woke" or (even more so) "Wokeism" are a seemingly never ending avalanche of centrist/rightwing wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Thanks for both the video and the Spotify list.
2:00 Literally reminded me of the Norman Osborn meme
“You know, I’m something of a scientist myself.”
Great video, good analysis. And I must stress this: you are by far the best English speaking French native I've ever heard. Chapeau!
when a group is defined by what they do or do not consume, it's not surprising that members of said group have contradictory values
Absolutely fascinating. No idea how a French political/social commentary channel ends up in my feed but I am very grateful. Very insightful and interesting. Earned a sub from me.
Crypto/techbro libertarian hipsters are the millennial generation's conservative hippie. Their material interests changed, but they held onto the aesthetic.
First video I've seen of yours. Excellent work. Well written and excellent delivery.
Alice acting like she doesn’t have a Vampire Weekend vinyl somewhere in her house.
Betrayed the hipster cause when they halved the saab supply
Dear Alice Capelle,
Great video! Thank you ❤
I think there is a strand of nostalgia in the hispter movement(s) that make it very fit for conservative (re)appropriation. There has been a strong line of authenticity, ur-masculinity and going "back to nature". A line of thinking that fit very well with the Fascist "reject modernity, embrace tradition".
As liftists, we might need to view nostalgia as a red flag...
You think conservatives would really wanna preserve the environment. Is the conservatives prefer national parks send natural spaces. I think conservative is the wrong word entirely to identify the right wing movements.
This is just my thoughts.
Conservatives were not right wing, the right wing tried to coopt them as a part of attaining power.@@dreamervanroom
"As a young black teenage girl in the early 2010s, I found myself fitting into the stereotypical image of a millennial hipster. During that time, I rejected most modern pop music and popular artists, gravitating towards a hipster aesthetic characterized by combat boots, military jackets, and an overall preference for alternative styles. Looking back, I realize that my teenage interests were rather superficial and short-lived, as I soon transitioned into an alternative grunge aesthetic that lasted until the mid-2010s.
It's not surprising to see the connection between the hipster movement and conservatism. The general hipster philosophy of valuing the old over the new seems to align with the rhetoric often heard at evangelical MAGA rallies, where a rejection of modernity and an embrace of tradition are common themes.
During the late 2000s and early 2010s, I witnessed the rise of rap culture and its growing influence in popular culture. It was a significant moment when Hip-Hop/Rap dethroned rock music as the most popular export of American culture. This shift brought more visibility to minorities and rap culture, challenging the traditional dominance of rock music, and Alternative music. This shift definitely didn't sit well with hipsters.
Totally agree about the bitterness to rap taking over rock as the main cultural export.
Every time I hear the square space ad read, it reminds me of the tattoo artist in GTA V. “Pick something unique, out of a catalog”
Hi Alice, I love your videos and I was wondering if you will do a video on the protests for Nael that are happening right now in France the same way you did for the pensions protest. I think we need voices that arent the media or the french state or police on these issues and you have a great platform to do so and a great way of commenting on complicated topics :)
She is gonna frame it as racist cops and opressed minorities burning down shit while being faaaaaaaar away from the die-versity she loves sommuch😂
Another good read / reference on the exact same subject is Decolonize Hipsters by GRÉGORY PIERROT (I believe he grew up in France). I stumbled uppon it while doing research for a photo book and he has some nice parallels with what is being said in the video and the comment section.
I think there is one major difference between the French and the US right wing embracing the hipster habitus (BTW, the phenomenon of hipsterism has been pretty universal in countries of a certain income level): It is a much better proposition to eat locally-sourced stuff in France than in the US. Same with living in the suburbs/countryside. The French right wing can easily take the appeal of rural France's cultural tropes and combine it with the aesthetics of hipsterism, in order to offer men a best of both worlds scenarios. The US right wing can't, because their rural tropes... well, suck. Worse still with the suburbs. That's why they panic at every sort of Urban habitus, they cannot assimilate it into their worldview (which in many ways, has changed little since the first Puritans landed). And that's why the Shapiros and the other guy look so... off playing up the hipster aesthetics. it's like when yuppie-born kids tried to do Hip-Hop Culture
Peasants Into Frenchmen, Weber. But you've lost the plot when it comes to the American mythos. Read de Tocqueville; consider the Jeffersonian citzen-farmer, Thoreau, manifest destiny and the frontier, 'rugged individualism' blah blah blah. Ben Shaprio sucks at pretending to be a cowboy because he's Ben fucking Shapiro, a Harvard Law School graduate pretending at populism with no connection to any of that but received culture.
Really sad and scary to see France being swept by this rightwing reactionary wave. Hope you manage to organize and fight this monster. A key element is to reach the countryside...
Every action has an equal an opposite reaction. The pearl clutching on both sides is absurd. What you actually want is a fair amount ideas from both sides so you see the world in a well rounded way.
As a fan of your videos I have to admit I'm a little bit tickled to see my former band on your hipster playlist. 😆
I think it all comes down to income. Early 2000 hipsters were generally younger and less well off. In trying to define themselves they adopted a frugal style that appreciated and cultivated ‘home made and local’. As time passed many became better off and, as is typical in any social group, became more protective of their wealth (i.e. more conservative).
Yes, young people get more conservative as they age lol
A tale as old as time
This reminds me that a few years ago the term „Nipster“ circulated here in Germany. It was meant to denote the far right‘s effort of influencing the youth via a „cool“ appearance - of course looking like hipsters.
A worrying though that they may actually have succeeded with that strategy (at least in the states)
They are. I'm on discord servers with younger people and the amount of right wing memes they post is disturbing. It almost feels like a psyop. But I think right wingers are just the loudest in any setting.
Sometimes what makes me insecure about being a vegan is the immediate association with hipsters and naturism (the romantization of nature and the natural). Regarding the halal slaughter, to me it's obvious that Le Pen's proposal is racist. From my point of view, all meat-eating must be challenged, not only that of minorities. This is my problem with single-issue campaigns of most animal organizations: they don't advocate for veganism in general, they just oppose particularly "cruel" practices.
I'm against justifying animal exploitation on the basis of cultural differences. At the same time, I refuse to support campaigns targeting minorities. I'm for promoting veganism for all.
Not just hipsters, there are even a lot of eco-fascists (who would love Le Pen's fake environmentalism) who are staunchly vegan. That shouldn't stop you though, there are enough progressive/leftist vegans to take inspiration from, and my reading into anarchist ideas has also made me consider veganism (although I'll just start slowly and maybe stop at vegetarianism for practical reasons)
@@KarlSnarks If you're doing it from a philosophical POV to not support cruelty and death, then vegetarianism is pretty much an oxymoron. There's no industrial production of animal products that doesn't involve death and suffering.
While veganism is the best way to ensure animal welfare and preserve our environment, halal slaughtering is not as inhumane as the west claims. It is based on cleanliness and not making the animal suffer more than needed. The animal is cut with a very sharp knife ensuring a quick death. Animals are not supposed to be slaughtered in front of each other, so they don't die in fear. They should be brought up in a healthy and clean environment and nursed back to health if they fall sick before slaughtering. This is something a lot of "more civilized" factory farming does not provide. I do agree that not numbing the animal before slaughtering does cause more pain but it is an older practice. The blood of the animal is not removed because of ritualistic causes but to prevent illness and parasites.
@@Ermude10 I don't disagree that milk and egg production i.e. are very exploitative in the current system of industrialized farming, but again I have some practical considerations about going fully vegan I'd need to feel out (what the options are for non-leather semi-orthopedic shoes, if i can get a balanced diet with all macro-micro nutrients etc.), and I do think there is ethical ways to gain by-product food of animals (not meat and leather though, unless an animal dies of natural causes).
I also think systemic activism against animal exploitation is more helpful than perfecting your personal veganism, just like how we don't expect individuals to be perfectly carbon-neutral to fight climate change.
I'm against justifying pushing ideologies onto other people. I think it's better to let people just live in peace instead of badgering them with things they don't want.
Vegan or no vegan, it should be the choice of the individual, not a result of peer pressure or marketing.
I remember a while back a tweet blew up about how surprising it was to one Twitter user that their ultra-conservative boomer relatives were once Woodstock hippies. Obviously the replies were full of people corroborating the Tweet and shitting on boomers, but someone used the phrase "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" and it has always stuck to me.
Ashamed to say I used to consider myself “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” in late high school/very early college as I started taking Econ classes. Thankfully I kept taking them and saw what BS was holding together basically all US economic policy. The graphing is still pretty though 🥲
“Die Yuppy Die” a great song from the 90’s Australian band “Painters and Dockers” (named after a militant waterfront union with strong underworld links in the 80’s and 90’s
Hey, I kinda dress like that, but I am no hipster, I am a country boy from Quebec where flannel shirts are culture. Such shirts are good for working at farms as they give a better protection against the sun, elements and makes lifting things more comfortable for your arms.
Wow, that playlist is quite eclectic, Alice. Well done!
Hi Alice Capelle. FYI I really appreciated your 'hipster turned conservative' video above. You touch upon many important things; it's a pity that your topics are so serious and important sometimes that you cannot joke. I don't use the word 'conservative' in the sense that you are doing in the video, but I think you understand, the same word can mean different things, and meaning can be conveyed in many different ways. Anyway, I am afraid to play my music in the car sometimes because I worry that it will affect listeners, though doubtless they are affected in many ways. And this may be projection simply because you are Gallic French in one definition, but you might have something in common with those sophisticated persons who ran 'salons' in 1780s et al. Paris (this is a compliment). They were all older women I think, otherwise it would make their life too complicated. Thank you. Also, I have the best taste in music!
I feel exposed! I wanted to convey a unique identity while riding fixed gear bicycles in Boston in 2008-2012. We were monocultural and mostly from the suburbs of Boston😂
you're just amazing! Love your analyses and will recommend to friends and family.
I don't think hipsters became conservative, I think young conservatives who were likely to be conservative anyway, appropriated for the sake of marketing. Many capitalist companies saw this as well and that's why you see mason jars and Edison bulbs in chain restaurants long after the trend had past. I think it should also be noted that there is not only one type of hipster, there are several types of hipsters. In the late aughts/early 2000s it wasn't just that people did not want to be labeled as hipster, but it was also hard to define. There were hipsters who were a-political, leaned more American Apparel party sleaze (now known as indie sleaze), but there were also hipsters who were more into whismy, arts and crafts, and microbrewing. There were some who were into a more avant garde art and lifestyle, etc.
Lastly, and I see someone already mentioned him, but Gavin Mcinnes of Vice paved the way for conservative hipsters. Having been to Vice parties myself, known Vice writers, photography interns. and videographers - there was a definite tone to the brand of hipster he was pushing out. It was dark, gritty, and meant to be sleazy. I wouldn't go so far to say he is the godfather of the modern hipster, but he was definitely one of the gatekeepers and trendsetters, and it was definitely under a misogynist's gaze.
Also, you might want to have a look at this review LA Times Review of "Look at This F*cking Panel: A Sociological Investigation of the Hipster." Notice that the title is "What Do Hipsters and Pornography Have In Common?" The UCLA panel itself featured notable hipsters of the time, which includes Gavin Mcinnes. www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/jacket-copy/story/2010-10-12/what-do-hipsters-and-pornography-have-in-common
Every video is so thought-provoking and refreshing! It delves deep into profound ideas and challenges conventional thinking in a digestible and engaging way. It's videos like these that remind us of the power of thought and the importance of insightful discussion.
Having lived in New York City my entire life, the hipster was always conservative lite. Their liberalism only extended to white ability to come into an era and colonize it for the “diverse” culture. I Experienced more racism as a Latino from hipster liberal whites than I ever did in my times in the southern red states where you would expect that stuff.
Some people look at and judge an image, and they try to portrait that image. Most liberals don't care about facts and are not very intelligent.
It’s so nice to see a new video on the channel 👏🏽
Gavin McInnes, the founder of the proud boys, also considers himself the godfather of hipsterdom.
That's why I shave my beard and dress like shit, definitely not because my beard sucks or because I'm poor.
Yeah, and on the more 'innocent' side of conservatism, it reminded me immediately of The Art of Manliness, a lifestyle blog/site that started in the early 10's that kinda advocates for trad-life values. Nothing very hateful, just sometimes slightly misogynist and romanticizing the past and 'warrior' stuff. On a positive note, they are very in favor of affection in close male friendships.
I lived near Portland Oregon for a few years around 2012. One thing I noticed about Hipsters was that they seemed like they took the "small-town thinking" and moved it into the city. They claimed to be all open-minded, but they were just as hostile to outsiders as the stereotypical people from rural America.
They claimed to be all non-conformist, but they all looked like carbon copies of each other, just like a lot of people from small-town America. Oh, the irony.
Thank you for the great video 🙏
But just a small correction (cuz Jazz fanatics might come after you) it's called Bebop not Bepop !
I was about to comment the same thing. Yes, BeBop!
I wish you had looked back further and made the parallel between the Hipster aesthetic and the ‘Dandy’ of the 1800s. It’s not that they dressed to the nines like Dandies did, but “my appearance is an outward sign of my superior culture and intellect” was 100% what it was signaling. It was also a catch-all edginess that was easily worn which is why it got ‘ruined’ when it went main stream and just became default fashion. The speed at which it became mainstream was the reason Hipsters didn’t want the label even if they wanted the ‘cultured/educated’ social credit for the look.
On another note regarding conservative Hipsters: the intellectual generation of conservatives I grew up with (Protestant, Midwest, but hungry for knowledge and extremely well read) were acutely insecure about being perceived as closed-minded and ignorant, so we went hard after this aesthetic.
Your Spotify playlist is actually pretty solid ngl. Minor note, the jazz movement you referred to is called Bebop, not Bepop. Living up to my hipster aesthetic with the “well actually” take, sorry 😂 Love your content!
Fascinating. Excellent analysis… including Thatcher and Regan! Nice job.
Great video. If you look a little bit into their funders you realise how shallow their commitment to environmentalism is and how their present commitment is just a smokescreen.
Your videos are revelations for me. You articulate those processes what I see, I feel but I never had a language or the form to express myself, i always thought of these but I never been able to talk about these, really cool point of view, thank you.
Just say your dumb and incapable of thought and deduction😂
Hold up... Why is Johnny Harris in the thumbnail of this video??
god damn. your titles sounds same as my very last thoughts about society every time you post a video. thank you for not feeling lonely with my thougts and last observation. its like a finding a friend in France
When Marine Le Pen talked about religious minorities once, I realised you can see through her BS so easily.
Many French people, especially young ones, can't.
You means the one's causing riot in France rn
Muslims ? HAHAHHAHA
Y a aux moins 100 crime islamiques en France depuis 10 ans, dont des attentats et des meurtres....
Mais c’est le RN, les méchants islamophobes hein.
@@francissquire9910G i wonder why seeing how France is currently burning right now by these savages
As a native New Yorker who lived through the Hipster Invasions of the 90’s and 00’s I have observed them in the wild. One thing I learned was a Hipster will never admit that he’s a Hipster. It’s always someone else who are Hipsters.
Ha! I made this comment in the beginning of the video. She said the exact same thing halfway through. 🫵🏻😉
While i disagree with the broad generalization of hipsters becoming conservative, it was insightful to consider all the ways the right appropriates leftist culture. From phrases like "hands off my body" from abortion to vaccines, to every white person's favorite black person MLK, to the organizing tactics of the Blank Panthers, we seem to have a lot of examples of that reappropriation to the right.
It did not occur to me until this video that a lot of conservatives have been touching that cool hipster appeal the flannel shirt, the rugged look, the suave speech...
Hipster culture like vegan stuff and vinyl or grunge hasn't hit conservative mainstream yet (and hopefully never will) but the right will take whatever works for the left to their own gross benefit
Merci beaucoup Alice!
Us reactionaries have vinyl but it's all Slamming Death metal and NSBM. We also love the real jazz and leftist hipsters are into the whiteboy stuff.
You are remarkably insightful. I’m skeptical of the essay genre of RUclips videos in general (even while I consume it frequently) … but without sacrificing accessibility you cover topics expertly, lucidly, truthfully, and engagingly. The world feels less lonely knowing people like you exist and contribute your thought to it! I feel like I should write your parents or your school system a thank you note, but I suppose your own hard work deserves most of the credit. Please keep up the excellent work!!