Yes those bells work, in the turbine industry we have to use a "bell" on all gas generators since they are stationary and require many more times the amount of air a piston engine requires.
You have got to be proud that your son is a gear head.He is getting to learn from one of the best Always teach the next generation or our love of cars will be taken away
I love how professional you talk and show things. Thank you. Now I have to ask this, you plan on doing a 7.3L Godzilla gas engine with a 3.0L Supercharger? I would figure with your way of thinking on cam's? That bad boy will make 1300+ horsepower without thinking to hard.
It's called the ventura effect, caused by the bell shaped, formly called a velocity stack back in the 60's and 70's. Don't see then used very much these days. I think if you increase the length, and open it up in following the angle you have you'll find it increase the air flow even more. It will reach a peak at around 8 to 10" if I remember correctly, but that was a long time ago when I messed with those. Back then they were made from spun aluminum with a rolled lip to give it strength. Look at the old single throttle body Hilborn and the individual throttle body per cylinder. He use to play with the different lengths and opening sizes to tune engines for more torque or horsepower whichever he was after depending on situation he was tuning for.
Ventura effect? What the hell?! That's VENTURI effect, and that's not what's happening here. Is with say a gas turbine, the point of the bellmouth is not to speed up air or force more air into the inlet. The purpose of the bellmouth is to disrupt turbulence, create an initial compression and then direct airflow into the inlet. A velocity stack is very similar but it is not the same, and it is more complex. The Venturi effect is what you see when your purpose is to decrease the cross sectional area of a tube for example, in order to decrease pressure and speed up the flow. This is seen in test sections of wind tunnels, race car diffusers, and jet outlet nozzles. As per Bernoulli's equation, an increase in flow speed decreases static pressure, and that's the Venturi effect. A bell mouth is a guide which restores the static pressure in the inlet and allows the pump to pull in air over the entire surface over the entire cross sectional area of the inlet.
Now that's a favorite unit right there buddy love to put one of them in my 57 of course with the Bell the best of everything well thanks for sharing this Steve take it easy buddy have a good night later
So, obviously the bell is working by decreasing turbulence at the throttle body, which is in turn increasing airflow. What does A/F look like on those two back-to-back pulls? Regardless, it's awesome to see that kind of a difference!
Probably close to the same. Some of the power comes from more air, but some of it also comes from more efficiency in terms of air inlet temp and less parasitic loss. The reduction in parasitic loss is not because the compressor becomes easier to turn, but simply because there's less turbulence. Turbulence takes energy, it's that simple.
I would love to see a big inner chiller on your setups. A local shop in my area got a Camaro to 900 horsepower on pump. Their motors nothing like yours either obviously yours is way better just curious to see
Would love to see the power difference if you swapped on the new Gen 5 Whipple 3.0L. Engine Labs reported 125whp gain with less boost on a Ford Coyote.
Never in a million years. Think about this. What does it take to make more power with less boost? Yes if it is more efficient which it is, sure it will make a bit more power due to less loss and lower temps, and then you can add a bit of timing - maybe 1-2 degrees. Here they added 5 degrees and race fuel, and gained 95 hp. Imagine if they should add close to 160 hp. Just no. That's marketing BS. Bolt a 3.0 on and do a retune, and you're probably looking at 30-40 hp crank. This is not just speculation, this is info straight from Dustin Whipple.
Why? You don't know the cam, you don't know the compression, you don't know the piston design or chamber mods. Timing is dependant on a lot of things, not just boost. When talking timing and power, boost is far less important than most think, boost is just a measure of air resistance.
Is there any way you could design a bell or velocity stack that would work with a filtered intake ? Or does it require a large amount of overall surface area to smooth the flow ? I know they make a big difference on mother cycles but that is way up there in the rpm
You can buy velocity stacks that are designed for a cone filter to fit over top of, or you can buy a cone filter that already has a velocity stack designed into the plastic base(such as K&N's X-Stream cone filters, a few other brands have produced filters like this too). And they definitely work too. You're definitely not going to be seeing gains like this since the restriction(filter) is in front of the velocity stack, but none the less they do work.
Would you see close to the same gains with a velocity stack inside a air filter? I know they use to make them and a K&N would clamp over it as I had one.
You can buy a cone filter that already has a velocity stack designed into the plastic base(such as K&N's X-Stream cone filters, a few other brands have produced filters like this too). And they definitely work too. You're not going to be seeing gains like this since the restriction(filter) is in front of the velocity stack, but none the less they do work.
The wall vents close progressively with rpm increase. Is that because the engine is drawing in SO much air it pulls them shut, or are the electrically modulated?
What's the compression ratio? Where did you end up with AFR? Love the stuff you guys do - always cool info. Amazing what it does for airflow when you give it a radius to follow rather than a sharp edge - especially on a blower that is so inlet restriction sensitive.
I would imagine it does not. The size of the intake pipe would determine airflow making the bell useless. This is drag racing stuff. There’s no point in making it work on a street car. Because it wouldn’t. I think people get too carried away with street cars. All for mods and making fun cars that can also be sent at the track. But at the end of the day is it a daily driven race car? Or is it a street car that gets sent at the track for the fun of it? Like buying one of his motors and a monster trans and a big 90mm turbo and for a street car would be way over kill unless it’s a race car that is supposed to be street legal. But again. Are we talking a daily that gets raced. Or a race car that gets daily’d because those are different cars.
It does. As long as the pipe diameter is the same as the outside of the bell. The larger diameter of the pipe means less air speed in the pipe and the bell will direct the air into the inlet. It's all about inlet surface area and directing the flow. In order to take full advantage of the bell, the pipe needs an area that is twice that of the throttle body inlet cross sectional area.
@@zachgregory1289 thx. I've always been curious if Steve Morris ever got his hands on a Tall Deck RHS LsX and boosted it. I'm talking 8:5:1 compression on a 500 ci LS. That'd be 😍
@@point2view Seeing that the guy builds boosted engines, that will probably only happen if someone puts a gun to his head and agrees to relieve Steve of any and all responsibility. Unless you build a unique LS crank with larger custom rod and main journals, it will be a terrible idea. In order for the LS crank to remain strong, you need to keep an overlap between the inner edge of the rod journal and the outer edge of the main journal. If you don't, the crank becomes quite weak. I'm sure you can get him to do a 447 or 461 if the crank has BBC main journals and RB rod journals, but more than that, I highly doubt. And with those baring sizes, things are starting to get weird because you will need to retain the LS journal width. Anything is possible, but it'll cost you and the hassle of getting a 4.250 crank for an LS with oversized journals, is just not worth it. There's a reason why the 434 is so popular outside of the 427.
Yes those bells work, in the turbine industry we have to use a "bell" on all gas generators since they are stationary and require many more times the amount of air a piston engine requires.
Amazing that a bell can give +30 hp difference! Didn't expect it to affect the torque so much too. Nice product!
Wow, That's quite the difference with the bell.
Air delivery/mangement is impressive with that bell/Ram.....pleasantly surprising. 🏁
That is a nice piece even without the bell. You should win the no bell piece prize.
Top quality dad joke right there 😭😂
You have got to be proud that your son is a gear head.He is getting to learn from one of the best
Always teach the next generation or our love of cars will be taken away
The bell reminds me of the air foil we used to put on the 2nd gen LT1’s 48mm throttle body. Only this actually works.
I love how professional you talk and show things. Thank you. Now I have to ask this, you plan on doing a 7.3L Godzilla gas engine with a 3.0L Supercharger? I would figure with your way of thinking on cam's? That bad boy will make 1300+ horsepower without thinking to hard.
I'd love to see what he'd do with that motor
It's called the ventura effect, caused by the bell shaped, formly called a velocity stack back in the 60's and 70's.
Don't see then used very much these days.
I think if you increase the length, and open it up in following the angle you have you'll find it increase the air flow even more.
It will reach a peak at around 8 to 10" if I remember correctly, but that was a long time ago when I messed with those.
Back then they were made from spun aluminum with a rolled lip to give it strength.
Look at the old single throttle body Hilborn and the individual throttle body per cylinder.
He use to play with the different lengths and opening sizes to tune engines for more torque or horsepower whichever he was after depending on situation he was tuning for.
Ventura effect? What the hell?!
That's VENTURI effect, and that's not what's happening here.
Is with say a gas turbine, the point of the bellmouth is not to speed up air or force more air into the inlet. The purpose of the bellmouth is to disrupt turbulence, create an initial compression and then direct airflow into the inlet. A velocity stack is very similar but it is not the same, and it is more complex.
The Venturi effect is what you see when your purpose is to decrease the cross sectional area of a tube for example, in order to decrease pressure and speed up the flow. This is seen in test sections of wind tunnels, race car diffusers, and jet outlet nozzles.
As per Bernoulli's equation, an increase in flow speed decreases static pressure, and that's the Venturi effect. A bell mouth is a guide which restores the static pressure in the inlet and allows the pump to pull in air over the entire surface over the entire cross sectional area of the inlet.
Now that's a favorite unit right there buddy love to put one of them in my 57 of course with the Bell the best of everything well thanks for sharing this Steve take it easy buddy have a good night later
Great looking setup! Thank you for another cool video Steve!👑
You "the man", Steve. Thank you for the videos.
Wow I didn't even realize that would do that to a Whipple combination. I'm sure interested NOW!
Nice ! Thanks for Sharing Steve !
Very impressive ! Thank you.
That hp comes on a quite a good ways after the torque drops off, keep it in a longer wheelbased chassis, it's gonna break em loose
A Beautifully Crafted Engine***
Thanks for the video
Can we all just take a second to realize how awesome the engine dyno is to hold down that power and control it to record the data
You could hear the difference in induction noise as soon as you fitted that bell
It directs the sound and also has a horn loading effect.
Great content thanks for sharing
So, obviously the bell is working by decreasing turbulence at the throttle body, which is in turn increasing airflow. What does A/F look like on those two back-to-back pulls?
Regardless, it's awesome to see that kind of a difference!
Probably close to the same. Some of the power comes from more air, but some of it also comes from more efficiency in terms of air inlet temp and less parasitic loss.
The reduction in parasitic loss is not because the compressor becomes easier to turn, but simply because there's less turbulence. Turbulence takes energy, it's that simple.
The bell works nice.
I think explaining the choices made while tuning would be amazing. Please?!
I would love to see a big inner chiller on your setups. A local shop in my area got a Camaro to 900 horsepower on pump. Their motors nothing like yours either obviously yours is way better just curious to see
There is an intercooler in the intake manifold. That a Whipple standard.
Impressive!
How much $$ a setup like this go for Steve??..... Thanks for the video you guys do impeccable work ❤️
$29k - just over $40k from NRE depending on the extras you want to add.
I need something like this for a 93 k1500 blazer!
I CANT WAIT!
Do you any thoughts on the 2.9 compared to the 3.0 whipple
One is a new design, the 2.9 is a 20 year old design. No comparison.
Would love to see the power difference if you swapped on the new Gen 5 Whipple 3.0L. Engine Labs reported 125whp gain with less boost on a Ford Coyote.
Never in a million years. Think about this. What does it take to make more power with less boost? Yes if it is more efficient which it is, sure it will make a bit more power due to less loss and lower temps, and then you can add a bit of timing - maybe 1-2 degrees. Here they added 5 degrees and race fuel, and gained 95 hp. Imagine if they should add close to 160 hp. Just no. That's marketing BS. Bolt a 3.0 on and do a retune, and you're probably looking at 30-40 hp crank. This is not just speculation, this is info straight from Dustin Whipple.
Is that with the overdrive crank pulley? What size blower pulley?
Wait a minute. What am I missing? You are running 29 degrees of timing on pump gas with 14psi? Shouldn't it be more like 20 degrees of timing or less?
Why? You don't know the cam, you don't know the compression, you don't know the piston design or chamber mods. Timing is dependant on a lot of things, not just boost. When talking timing and power, boost is far less important than most think, boost is just a measure of air resistance.
Is there any way you could design a bell or velocity stack that would work with a filtered intake ?
Or does it require a large amount of overall surface area to smooth the flow ?
I know they make a big difference on mother cycles but that is way up there in the rpm
You can buy velocity stacks that are designed for a cone filter to fit over top of, or you can buy a cone filter that already has a velocity stack designed into the plastic base(such as K&N's X-Stream cone filters, a few other brands have produced filters like this too).
And they definitely work too. You're definitely not going to be seeing gains like this since the restriction(filter) is in front of the velocity stack, but none the less they do work.
Would you see close to the same gains with a velocity stack inside a air filter? I know they use to make them and a K&N would clamp over it as I had one.
You can buy a cone filter that already has a velocity stack designed into the plastic base(such as K&N's X-Stream cone filters, a few other brands have produced filters like this too). And they definitely work too. You're not going to be seeing gains like this since the restriction(filter) is in front of the velocity stack, but none the less they do work.
Yes.They can be very efficient. Anything that helps to clean up airflow and direct the air into the inlet is a win.
The wall vents close progressively with rpm increase.
Is that because the engine is drawing in SO much air it pulls them shut, or are the electrically modulated?
No & Yes
What's the compression ratio? Where did you end up with AFR? Love the stuff you guys do - always cool info. Amazing what it does for airflow when you give it a radius to follow rather than a sharp edge - especially on a blower that is so inlet restriction sensitive.
I believe his screw blower stuff is in the 9:1-9.5:1 range.
Would the bell work on naturally aspirated engines? Carb or efi
Yes, especially in carb applications.
Did you say 24* at 16 PSI on pump fuel?
Test it with a salad bowl next lol
Can the bell function inside a pipe? Wondering how to make this work on a street engine.
I would imagine it does not. The size of the intake pipe would determine airflow making the bell useless. This is drag racing stuff. There’s no point in making it work on a street car. Because it wouldn’t. I think people get too carried away with street cars. All for mods and making fun cars that can also be sent at the track. But at the end of the day is it a daily driven race car? Or is it a street car that gets sent at the track for the fun of it? Like buying one of his motors and a monster trans and a big 90mm turbo and for a street car would be way over kill unless it’s a race car that is supposed to be street legal. But again. Are we talking a daily that gets raced. Or a race car that gets daily’d because those are different cars.
It does. As long as the pipe diameter is the same as the outside of the bell. The larger diameter of the pipe means less air speed in the pipe and the bell will direct the air into the inlet. It's all about inlet surface area and directing the flow.
In order to take full advantage of the bell, the pipe needs an area that is twice that of the throttle body inlet cross sectional area.
What throttle body?
Any idea what this setup would cost 💲
👍😀
Not judge Newell's fan's.....
Flags
What cubic inch is that Ls ?
427
@@zachgregory1289 thx. I've always been curious if Steve Morris ever got his hands on a Tall Deck RHS LsX and boosted it. I'm talking 8:5:1 compression on a 500 ci LS. That'd be 😍
@@point2view
Seeing that the guy builds boosted engines, that will probably only happen if someone puts a gun to his head and agrees to relieve Steve of any and all responsibility. Unless you build a unique LS crank with larger custom rod and main journals, it will be a terrible idea. In order for the LS crank to remain strong, you need to keep an overlap between the inner edge of the rod journal and the outer edge of the main journal. If you don't, the crank becomes quite weak. I'm sure you can get him to do a 447 or 461 if the crank has BBC main journals and RB rod journals, but more than that, I highly doubt. And with those baring sizes, things are starting to get weird because you will need to retain the LS journal width.
Anything is possible, but it'll cost you and the hassle of getting a 4.250 crank for an LS with oversized journals, is just not worth it. There's a reason why the 434 is so popular outside of the 427.
you need to put links in your desciptions.
What RWHP difference would we see if all else remained the same and an LS 390ci was used? So just 37 cubic inch difference.