My first experience with Pierre Boulez was in my college years in which my curiosity led me to a purchase of Stravinsky’s Petrushka and the Rite of Spring or Le Sacre du Printemps with the Cleveland Orchestra. I was a wowed by the clarity and force of the CBS Masterworks recording. I listen to that recording to this day, then Bartok’s powerful Miraculous Mandarin recording floored me. From that point on Boulez was my conductor. I then proceeded to check on his own compositions and reading up on modern music. Boulez changed my life and got me going on 20th Century music. His Piano Sonatas #1-3 and Le Marteau Sans Maître, his music was difficult. But after continuous listening it opened my mind and increased my spatial intelligence. Later his compositions Repons and Sur Incises were fantastic. Boulez’s music will live on into the 22nd Century. He will be missed.
My niece asked me what kind of music robots, machines and automatons would make. I told her to listen to Boulez. She did and she said it was like elevator music for a crash dummy factory.
La direction de Pierre Boulez est, comme à son habitude d'une précision remarquable dans cette oeuvre à la polyphonie complexe toujours inventive et d'une coloration inouïe. REMARQUABLE
Tellement magnifique et variée cette musique ! Le début me fait extraordinairement penser à certaines pièces de Frank Zappa. Je ne peux m’empêcher de sourire de joie, face à son énergie et à sa rythmique imprévisible tout en étant apaisé par ses sonorités soyeuses et ondulantes !
une merveilleuse exécution!!! je m'en souviens tres bien: j'etais à ce concert !!! la coda du morceau est une des choses les plus fascinantes de Boulez et il l'a dirigée ce soir là d'une maniere particulierement survoltée!!!!!!
@@JohnBorstlap hopefully you got that my comment was a joke and you're playing along. In all seriousness, his music has grown on me and I think is actually more emotionally compelling than people realize. The Notations II for example effectively evokes the hustle and bustle, steel skyscrapers, traffic, honking and fast movement of a large modern city. Try listening to it and watching videos of New York or of sky scrapers - it provides for a thrilling sound track! Is it catchy? No. Does it make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up? Yes. I don't care about the mathematics behind it...it's just exciting music.
@@brentmarquez9057 It shows that it is the sound track to modernity, and is this modernity healthy? Human? It is a type of environment on the lowest possible level of civilisation. Sensible people move-out of central NY.
How thrilling to read numerous remarks here by people who truly feel the significance of this work, which inhabits the same sphere as the late Beethoven quartets. This gives one hope for the future.
@@JohnBorstlap Dear Dr Borstlap, I am sorry if any of my remarks have come across as sarcastic. However, I can testify that in this case I am completely sincere. I believe fully that Derive 2 inhabits the same sphere as the late Beethoven quartets. I am not the only person who believes this, and I recall Daniel Barenboim making a similar remark. No I was not being sarcastic, but sincere and, in my view, truthful. Just thought I should make this clear. I appreciate that you view the matter differently.
@@prof.sirjeffreydarling-mil3463 I don't fully agree with you (and you obviously were not sarcastic): this is a beautiful piece (one of my favouries among Boulez's) but it is not in the same sphere of the late Beethoven quartets. The most obvious difference (not the most important one, only the most evident) is that this work is conservative, Beethoven's quartets weren't conservative. This music continuously looks backwards towards its origins (post serialism and I'd say neoclassicism too, but this is less obvious) that were already well grounded in tradition (in several and not conservative ways). Beethoven was a visionary (not meaning innovator) Boulez not, Stockhausen yes. Brilliant work all the same.
@@emilianoturazzi That's a highly stimulating notion. I will have to think about it over the next few months, but I am tempted to agree that he is not a visionary in the same way Beethoven was. It may be that Boulez is in the same sphere as Ravel - who was perfect, possibly the best ever...but not the GREATEST. The greatest will always be Beethoven. On the other hand, the spiritual energy, radiance and joy that emanate from late Boulez pieces, such as this, have an inherently revelatory quality for me - on an emotional level. Hence my hesitation in agreeing fully on this occasion. All best wishes to you and your family
J'ai actuellement les deux enregistrements disponibles de cette oeuvre et je dois dire que cette vidéo apporte un éclairage supplémentaire à Dérive 2 et je souscris totalement au précédent commentaire sur la fascination de ce concert. L'excellence des instrumentistes, la direction de Pierre Boulez. Remarquable!
@@JohnBorstlap Sir, if you hate this music, why do you return to this page and make acerbic remarks? I'm confused. I don't find this comment in any way hilarious or sarcastic. I endorse it!
@@prof.sirjeffreydarling-mil3463 If you take a little trouble to read @John Borstlap other comments here in RUclips and listen to his "music", you will find that he is a very mediocre composer, and a person that thinks only tonal music - and a really bad one, judging by his own - is good music even nowadays. A sad, pathetic figure indeed... his life appears to consist entirely in posting this kind of stupid remarks, in RUclips.
To Max z (and some others): I worked with Boulez- he conducted my music (ruclips.net/video/xxV_zhY4WPM/видео.html). All I can say is, that he really is a genius. When looking at a (complex) score, he hears what is written ("inner ear"). As a matter of fact, this music originates from a brilliant mastermind with exceptional abilities. Ergo: the discussion can only resolve around the question, whether one "likes" this music or not. And -swoosh- we reach the broad field of personal ( =subjective) taste- and this is for sure the wrong place to discuss questions of (objective?) qualities.
Genius Boulez ? My ass! There is no sense of orchestration, no musical originality in his work, everything is so predictable and I would had predictably boring. I don't believe he had any musical skill, I think he was just an impostor, and the musical world is better off now is gone for good!
à partir de 6:25, comme si l'espace intergalactique s'ouvrait devant nous, petite danse excentrique, puis à nouveau cet envol, mais plus acide et instable cette fois ! J'adore ce passage !
Pierre BOULEZ (Montbrison, Francia, 26.03.1925 - Alemania, Baden Baden 05.01.2016) Fantástica belleza y expansiva sensibilidad... Bon voyage, y gracias!
Great ending. I was at the 2015 Proms performance of this work, only …explosante-fixe… during the same season exceeded this in my concert going experience. Boulez is dead, long live his music!
Incredible stuff. When I first started listening to Boulez I had too much knowledge of Darmstadt and a dislike of his conducting style regarding Mahler. Toss in the preconceived notion that "real composers don't conduct" and visa versa it took a while to immerse myself. In the past two years I have come to find out that many of my favorite composers did indeed conduct for their livelihood. A short list would include Boulez, Wuorinen and Maderna.
A longer list would include Rameau, Lully, Mozart, Beethoven, Berlioz, Schumann, Tcaikovsky, Verdi, Dvorak, countless others, and most prominently Mahler, who, by all accounts, must be accepted as part of a small number of the greatest conductors. In the past few decades Sinopoli and Bernstein come to mind, besides Boulez. But you're right -- it's good to un-Darmstadt oneself. Henze and Stockhausen also conducted at Darmstadt, which we used to call Darnstuff in the old days. But that was before my time.
Plus qu’aux derniers quatuors de Beethoven, cette remarquable musique débordante d’une joie profonde, spirituelle, me fait penser à l’Offrande Musicale de Bach ou- si je devais choisir une musique beethovénienne apparentée, aux variations Diabelli. Et - quoique Boulez lui-même n’eût sans doute pas aimé ces associations, dans la musique de nos temps, aux œuvres de Messiaen, jadis pour un bref laps de temps son Maître et.. aux œuvres tardives de Stockhausen, sans doute pour toujours son frère...
Chacun sa façon de voir, moi je dirais que c'est plutot a chier parterre. Tous ces musiciens professionnels si bien payés et hautement formes pour un résultat sonore aussi misérable, et tout ca au frais de la princesse. Cette musique est un échec, tant sur le plan musical que sur le plan médiatique, une absolue perte de temps, et je dirais meme une imposture.
+Osvaldo Colarusso Osvaldo! je répondais à Ezequiel Gomares qui certainement n'aime pas la musique; je pense comme toi que cette musique et l'oeuvre de Boulez en général est, comme tu dis, géniale. La musique est ma vie aussi. Nietzsche: la vida sin música sería un error.
For a display of contrapuntal ingenuity on the level of anything Dufay or Bach or anybody else ever produced just listen to the first 12 or 14 minutes of this piece. Exhilarating!
That is quite wrong. In this type of atonal pattern making, contrapuntal ingenuity is not real ingenuity, because every combination of tones is OK, as long as you avoid a tonal coherence. Also the complexities in late Berg and late Schoenberg and Webern (the 12-tone territory) is not real complexity, since the real challenge is avoided: how to be contrapuntal within a tonal context that still sounds good. The whole idea of complexities in sonic art is a fallacy, everybody can do that, with a bit of cleverness. It impresses the gullible people....
@@JohnBorstlap Certainly it is possible for the untalented composer to create faux contrapuntal music that is a fallacy. And if their chosen language is 'atonal', then the result is dreadful. The difference between an untalented composer and a genius is that when you listen to the music of an untalented composer you find that there is nothing to return to. You hear the untalented composer's work for the 2nd time and you think, 'Yeah right...thanks dude.' When you return to the work of a genius over and over during the course of decades, the work will continue to grow and reveal more and more. Living with such work is a kind of magic. How long have a I known Derive 2 now? I think since 2002, so that makes 20 years. My ardour for it, and my feeling of its magic, has grown throughout that time. Compared with it, a great deal of contemporary music is...just a bit pathetic really. I'm sorry, sir, if you disagree. It seems that you have a particular issue with PB. I hope he wasn't sarcastic about your music or something. I only knew him when he was an avuncular grandfather figure and I can't believe he made fun of Henze et al. the way he did.
Boulez sounds like Berg with his schizophrenic friend visiting a big city immersed in a dizzying neon aesthetic. Berg sounds like he's permanently in the forest or in a room.
There's so much counterpoint going on in the first quarter of this piece and I'm completely lost. My ears hate this, but my "intellectual" curiosity makes me want to keep listening.
Creo que es la primera obra de boulez que logro apreciar un poco, no sé si por casualidad o qué...eso sí, le sobran 35 minutos para que no se convierta en un sopor infumable
Vorrei capire il senso di questa musica...sembrano tanti suoni disarmonici, magari solo apparentemente, ma io abituata all armonia della musica classica di beethowen e di mozart beh fatico a trovarne una linea guida. Il suo testo "il paese fertile, paul klee e la musica" lo ammetto è riflessivo, quasi commovente, e degno di nota ;)
Hay que tener coraje para componer esto. Me pregunto, qué se pretende?. Que emocione no; que guste, difícilmente. Acaso enojar al oyente?. Es un reto para el músico?. Es necesario esto?.
Mira si sé que soy profesor de música en un conservatorio. Lo que hay que tener es valentía de llamar a las cosas por su nombre. Lo escuché en directo el pasado mes de enero en Madrid, con Baremboin. La gente no tiró tomates porque es sumamente educada. La crítica fue clara al respecto. Argumenta tú otra cosa......si sabes. Estoy hasta las narices de esnobismos retroprogres, mira por donde....
No veo el argumento por ninguna parte. Que no te gusta, pasa a otra cosa, di que no lo entiendes. En el auditorio hace tres años hicieron un monográfico de Boulez. Criticas hay de todos los colores. Creo que tu escuchas bastante mas musica retro que yo seguro. El problema de mezclar musicas de distintas épocas es que hay publico que solo va al auditorio a oír el mismo repertorio de hace doscientos años. Mahler, Debussy, Messiaen,Ravel y tantos otros recibieron muy malas criticas en su época. Dices que eres profesor de musica, lo siento por tus alumnos, tener un profesor tan corto de miras es triste , enseñales y que ellos decidan. Yo también estoy cansado de los señores conservadores que no ven mas allá de sus narices y critican todo lo que no entienden.
Entonces lo que sobraba era tu comentario despreciando el mío. Por qué sobraba mi comentario?. Lo que decía era que no me parece una música "escuchable". Nada más. Te lo puedo argumentar desde el punto de vista incluso dodecafónico (que tampoco es esto, por cierto). Es un reto para los músicos. Innegable. Y para el director. Y para el compositor. Nadie, nunca por muchas veces que lo interprete puede aprenderse una línea de memoria. Era patético ver a Baremboin (al que adoro) leyendo compulsivamente la partitura. Retos para los músicos los hay en Mozart, en Beethoven, si quieres alguien contemporáneo en el mismísimo Stravinsky. Lo que no se puede es tomar el pelo a la gente. Mi punto de vista. Si quieres más argumento entramos en tonalidades, modalidades compases de amalgama o disonancias de cuarta aumentada, pero no quisiera llegar ahí.
Boulez resorted to note-spinning in his later music, especially in the works written in one continuous span, this being a prime example. But the length cannot support the presentation of the content he chooses. The Derive 2 from 1988/2002 is another (24'33) example. If the latter couldn't sustain it's length, so this Derive 2, being twice as long, cannot, either. Although Maestro Boulez said that he did not like repetition for the sake of repetition, in the end, these and other pieces come off that way - repetitive - in spite of subtle pains to avoid it. But the impression remains. The works that contain shorter movements (Le Marteau Sans Maitre, Notations) are more successful, in that the movements require greater contrasts, even as they also contain repetitions with minute alterations (especially those parts which reference Stravinsky's rhythmic innovations). Granted, there is beauty to be found in the slow parts of both Derive 2s, which reference Webern, but Boulez in my opinion was not successful in combining both.
+dou40006 Indeed. The pitch of the notes is irrelevant, the notes are chosen for their decorative value. It is purely materialistic art, sonic art, where the acustical surface is all there is. There is no psychological, expressive dimension, no 'inner space' created by tonal relationships.
But honestly, if you changed half the notes of this piece it would be an entirely different work just like if you changed half the notes of any music from any period. I always love to listen to this work specially when I'm travelling by plane or bus and I don't get why so many people in this video are feeling threatened by this music and treating it like something alien.
+Ricardo Ferrari I think it comes from the fact that Boulez was extremely aggressive back in the day with his musical view, basically rejecting everything that was not in the academia of vanguardism. I think a American musician called him the hitler of music. Seriously you can take that boredom from start to end ?
dizzying) make (someone) feel unsteady, confused, or amazed: the dizzying rate of change | her nearness dizzied him. Not good to me!! and 48 minutes of it?? even less!!
One of my little sister' favourite composers. It's music out of the ordinary and we love it. Thanks Silicua
My first experience with Pierre Boulez was in my college years in which my curiosity led me to a purchase of Stravinsky’s Petrushka and the Rite of Spring or Le Sacre du Printemps with the Cleveland Orchestra. I was a wowed by the clarity and force of the CBS Masterworks recording. I listen to that recording to this day, then Bartok’s powerful Miraculous Mandarin recording floored me. From that point on Boulez was my conductor. I then proceeded to check on his own compositions and reading up on modern music. Boulez changed my life and got me going on 20th Century music. His Piano Sonatas #1-3 and Le Marteau Sans Maître, his music was difficult. But after continuous listening it opened my mind and increased my spatial intelligence. Later his compositions Repons and Sur Incises were fantastic. Boulez’s music will live on into the 22nd Century. He will be missed.
My niece asked me what kind of music robots, machines and automatons would make. I told her to listen to Boulez. She did and she said it was like elevator music for a crash dummy factory.
This is like hearing magic performed in sound. Beautiful.. It reminds me of The Girl in the Magnesium Dress by Zappa.
La direction de Pierre Boulez est, comme à son habitude d'une précision remarquable dans cette oeuvre à la polyphonie complexe toujours inventive et d'une coloration inouïe. REMARQUABLE
Tout à fait d'accord !
@@clarinetjo Moi aussi.
Une des très grandes oeuvres de Pierre Boulez, qu'elle précision dans la direction du chef et compositeur. Une merveille.
Absolument d'accord!! Une merveille AB SO LUE !!!
Tellement magnifique et variée cette musique ! Le début me fait extraordinairement penser à certaines pièces de Frank Zappa. Je ne peux m’empêcher de sourire de joie, face à son énergie et à sa rythmique imprévisible tout en étant apaisé par ses sonorités soyeuses et ondulantes !
T'es sous acide ????!!
une merveilleuse exécution!!! je m'en souviens tres bien: j'etais à ce concert !!! la coda du morceau est une des choses les plus fascinantes de Boulez et il l'a dirigée ce soir là d'une maniere particulierement survoltée!!!!!!
Brilliant and very beautiful. Rest in peace, Maestro Boulez!
Igualmente para
@@bardo316 but boy could he write a tune!
@@brentmarquez4157 It seems that your idea of what a 'tune' is, leaves something to be wished for.
@@JohnBorstlap hopefully you got that my comment was a joke and you're playing along. In all seriousness, his music has grown on me and I think is actually more emotionally compelling than people realize. The Notations II for example effectively evokes the hustle and bustle, steel skyscrapers, traffic, honking and fast movement of a large modern city. Try listening to it and watching videos of New York or of sky scrapers - it provides for a thrilling sound track! Is it catchy? No. Does it make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up? Yes. I don't care about the mathematics behind it...it's just exciting music.
@@brentmarquez9057 It shows that it is the sound track to modernity, and is this modernity healthy? Human? It is a type of environment on the lowest possible level of civilisation. Sensible people move-out of central NY.
The best of the best, i really love this piece !
How thrilling to read numerous remarks here by people who truly feel the significance of this work, which inhabits the same sphere as the late Beethoven quartets. This gives one hope for the future.
More sarcasm.
@@JohnBorstlap Dear Dr Borstlap, I am sorry if any of my remarks have come across as sarcastic. However, I can testify that in this case I am completely sincere. I believe fully that Derive 2 inhabits the same sphere as the late Beethoven quartets. I am not the only person who believes this, and I recall Daniel Barenboim making a similar remark. No I was not being sarcastic, but sincere and, in my view, truthful. Just thought I should make this clear.
I appreciate that you view the matter differently.
@@prof.sirjeffreydarling-mil3463 I don't fully agree with you (and you obviously were not sarcastic): this is a beautiful piece (one of my favouries among Boulez's) but it is not in the same sphere of the late Beethoven quartets. The most obvious difference (not the most important one, only the most evident) is that this work is conservative, Beethoven's quartets weren't conservative. This music continuously looks backwards towards its origins (post serialism and I'd say neoclassicism too, but this is less obvious) that were already well grounded in tradition (in several and not conservative ways). Beethoven was a visionary (not meaning innovator) Boulez not, Stockhausen yes.
Brilliant work all the same.
@@emilianoturazzi That's a highly stimulating notion. I will have to think about it over the next few months, but I am tempted to agree that he is not a visionary in the same way Beethoven was. It may be that Boulez is in the same sphere as Ravel - who was perfect, possibly the best ever...but not the GREATEST. The greatest will always be Beethoven.
On the other hand, the spiritual energy, radiance and joy that emanate from late Boulez pieces, such as this, have an inherently revelatory quality for me - on an emotional level. Hence my hesitation in agreeing fully on this occasion.
All best wishes to you and your family
J'ai actuellement les deux enregistrements disponibles de cette oeuvre et je dois dire que cette vidéo apporte un éclairage supplémentaire à Dérive 2 et je souscris totalement au précédent commentaire sur la fascination de ce concert. L'excellence des instrumentistes, la direction de Pierre Boulez. Remarquable!
This is most probably what I'd take to the desert island...
Me too! I love you
A fantastic piece by an outstanding genius. Boulez, one of the best composers ever existed.
This reads as hilarious sarcasm.
@@JohnBorstlap Sir, if you hate this music, why do you return to this page and make acerbic remarks? I'm confused. I don't find this comment in any way hilarious or sarcastic. I endorse it!
@@prof.sirjeffreydarling-mil3463 If you take a little trouble to read @John Borstlap other comments here in RUclips and listen to his "music", you will find that he is a very mediocre composer, and a person that thinks only tonal music - and a really bad one, judging by his own - is good music even nowadays. A sad, pathetic figure indeed... his life appears to consist entirely in posting this kind of stupid remarks, in RUclips.
To Max z (and some others): I worked with Boulez- he conducted my music (ruclips.net/video/xxV_zhY4WPM/видео.html). All I can say is, that he really is a genius. When looking at a (complex) score, he hears what is written ("inner ear").
As a matter of fact, this music originates from a brilliant mastermind with exceptional abilities. Ergo: the discussion can only resolve around the question, whether one "likes" this music or not. And -swoosh- we reach the broad field of personal ( =subjective) taste- and this is for sure the wrong place to discuss questions of (objective?) qualities.
Genius Boulez ? My ass! There is no sense of orchestration, no musical originality in his work, everything is so predictable and I would had predictably boring. I don't believe he had any musical skill, I think he was just an impostor, and the musical world is better off now is gone for good!
@@dou40006 are you joking? haha! what an idiotic comment!
@@dou40006 You are trolling us, so I suppose it is better to ignore you than to reply properly.
For me, it's fascinating and beautiful, but never for more than ten or twelve minutes at a time. I know, I know, my bad.
Now, i will simply enjoy the work. !
à partir de 6:25, comme si l'espace intergalactique s'ouvrait devant nous, petite danse excentrique, puis à nouveau cet envol, mais plus acide et instable cette fois ! J'adore ce passage !
N'importe quoi ...
@@karlkinono tiens, vous ici ! Ça va bien, la famille, tout ça ? Ça fait plaisir de vous voir à nouveau sur une vidéo avec de la bonne musique !
Pierre BOULEZ (Montbrison, Francia, 26.03.1925 - Alemania, Baden Baden 05.01.2016)
Fantástica belleza y expansiva sensibilidad...
Bon voyage, y gracias!
basson and english horn really rock the melody ! around 8:35 and after !
10:50 : notes répétées, et trilles sur un bel accord grave. Puissant et mystérieux
26:10 glory to the viola, may his song going on and on forever
Great ending.
I was at the 2015 Proms performance of this work, only …explosante-fixe… during the same season exceeded this in my concert going experience.
Boulez is dead, long live his music!
génial....
magnifico
Wonderful upload !
Thanks a lot
26:52 is outstanding
Incredible stuff. When I first started listening to Boulez I had too much knowledge of Darmstadt and a dislike of his conducting style regarding Mahler. Toss in the preconceived notion that "real composers don't conduct" and visa versa it took a while to immerse myself. In the past two years I have come to find out that many of my favorite composers did indeed conduct for their livelihood. A short list would include Boulez, Wuorinen and Maderna.
A longer list would include Rameau, Lully, Mozart, Beethoven, Berlioz, Schumann, Tcaikovsky, Verdi, Dvorak, countless others, and most prominently Mahler, who, by all accounts, must be accepted as part of a small number of the greatest conductors. In the past few decades Sinopoli and Bernstein come to mind, besides Boulez. But you're right -- it's good to un-Darmstadt oneself. Henze and Stockhausen also conducted at Darmstadt, which we used to call Darnstuff in the old days. But that was before my time.
15:45 : such a soft release of the tension build until there !
You absolutely need to carefully listen to Derive I to grasp Boulez' change composition proocess. This is pperg haps the best example of it.
Descansa en paz maestro. Tu admiradora secreta defiende tu obra
may he rest in peace
à 8:01 : what a wonderful chord !
Браво!
amazing
Plus qu’aux derniers quatuors de Beethoven, cette remarquable musique débordante d’une joie profonde, spirituelle, me fait penser à l’Offrande Musicale de Bach ou- si je devais choisir une musique beethovénienne apparentée, aux variations Diabelli. Et - quoique Boulez lui-même n’eût sans doute pas aimé ces associations, dans la musique de nos temps, aux œuvres de Messiaen, jadis pour un bref laps de temps son Maître et.. aux œuvres tardives de Stockhausen, sans doute pour toujours son frère...
The defining characteristic isn't the atonality it't the precision.
so good...
Il dirige sa propre musique avec une partition, étonnant !!!
Come toujours genial
Chacun sa façon de voir, moi je dirais que c'est plutot a chier parterre. Tous ces musiciens professionnels si bien payés et hautement formes pour un résultat sonore aussi misérable, et tout ca au frais de la princesse. Cette musique est un échec, tant sur le plan musical que sur le plan médiatique, une absolue perte de temps, et je dirais meme une imposture.
+dou40006 kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk tout a fait idiot
tu n'aimes pas la musique n'est ce pas?
+Lothar La Murtra au contraire. La musique est ma vie.
+Osvaldo Colarusso
Osvaldo! je répondais à Ezequiel Gomares qui certainement n'aime pas la musique; je pense comme toi que cette musique et l'oeuvre de Boulez en général est, comme tu dis, géniale. La musique est ma vie aussi. Nietzsche: la vida sin música sería un error.
For a display of contrapuntal ingenuity on the level of anything Dufay or Bach or anybody else ever produced just listen to the first 12 or 14 minutes of this piece. Exhilarating!
Now that made me laugh out loud. Thank you for that.
That is quite wrong. In this type of atonal pattern making, contrapuntal ingenuity is not real ingenuity, because every combination of tones is OK, as long as you avoid a tonal coherence. Also the complexities in late Berg and late Schoenberg and Webern (the 12-tone territory) is not real complexity, since the real challenge is avoided: how to be contrapuntal within a tonal context that still sounds good. The whole idea of complexities in sonic art is a fallacy, everybody can do that, with a bit of cleverness. It impresses the gullible people....
@@JohnBorstlap Certainly it is possible for the untalented composer to create faux contrapuntal music that is a fallacy. And if their chosen language is 'atonal', then the result is dreadful. The difference between an untalented composer and a genius is that when you listen to the music of an untalented composer you find that there is nothing to return to. You hear the untalented composer's work for the 2nd time and you think, 'Yeah right...thanks dude.' When you return to the work of a genius over and over during the course of decades, the work will continue to grow and reveal more and more. Living with such work is a kind of magic. How long have a I known Derive 2 now? I think since 2002, so that makes 20 years. My ardour for it, and my feeling of its magic, has grown throughout that time. Compared with it, a great deal of contemporary music is...just a bit pathetic really.
I'm sorry, sir, if you disagree. It seems that you have a particular issue with PB. I hope he wasn't sarcastic about your music or something. I only knew him when he was an avuncular grandfather figure and I can't believe he made fun of Henze et al. the way he did.
11:50 new melody and sweet tic-tac as accompaniement.
los parametros de la musica evolucionan
O involucionan. O sustituyen algo malo por algo igual o peor.
Qué absurda manía de pensar que todo cambio supone necesariamente una evolución.
a true masterpiece!
32:06 beautiful cello line
17:40 : very Strawinsky like !
27:20 : english horn is back !
good version
Yep.
danke!!
esplêndido música clássicas!!!!
-- Cacophonique et harmonieux à la fois. Très inspirant. --
Cosmic Music ..
29:25 bassoon !
🌿👽Love/Freedom...everywhere ❤️🍃
Brilliant
What ensemble is this? They are superb!
Duh. Just figured it out. Ensemble Intercontemporain.
22:49 : time is suspended !!!
A bit Messiaen-like, don't you think ?
Feel free to sing along...if you dare...
32:00 the arppeggio come swift ! then the cello start to talk !
34:22 de profundis clamavi !
Boulez sounds like Berg with his schizophrenic friend visiting a big city immersed in a dizzying neon aesthetic. Berg sounds like he's permanently in the forest or in a room.
Pierre Boulez es.... Pierre Boulez
Delirante burla final.Muy bueno,aunque no supera a Ligeti.
yes
There's so much counterpoint going on in the first quarter of this piece and I'm completely lost. My ears hate this, but my "intellectual" curiosity makes me want to keep listening.
Creo que es la primera obra de boulez que logro apreciar un poco, no sé si por casualidad o qué...eso sí, le sobran 35 minutos para que no se convierta en un sopor infumable
23:40 : birds singing ?
+clarinetjo Perhaps a tribute to Messiaen
Vorrei capire il senso di questa musica...sembrano tanti suoni disarmonici, magari solo apparentemente, ma io abituata all armonia della musica classica di beethowen e di mozart beh fatico a trovarne una linea guida.
Il suo testo "il paese fertile, paul klee e la musica" lo ammetto è riflessivo, quasi commovente, e degno di nota ;)
SUBLIME
When/where's this performance from?
there's worse out there in the world of contemporary classical music other than Boulez. trust me!
but not much better
John Coltrane, Ascension
Hay que tener coraje para componer esto. Me pregunto, qué se pretende?. Que emocione no; que guste, difícilmente. Acaso enojar al oyente?. Es un reto para el músico?. Es necesario esto?.
Lo que seguro no es necesario es tu comentario. Argumenta si sabes.
Mira si sé que soy profesor de música en un conservatorio. Lo que hay que tener es valentía de llamar a las cosas por su nombre. Lo escuché en directo el pasado mes de enero en Madrid, con Baremboin. La gente no tiró tomates porque es sumamente educada. La crítica fue clara al respecto. Argumenta tú otra cosa......si sabes. Estoy hasta las narices de esnobismos retroprogres, mira por donde....
No veo el argumento por ninguna parte. Que no te gusta, pasa a otra cosa, di que no lo entiendes. En el auditorio hace tres años hicieron un monográfico de Boulez. Criticas hay de todos los colores. Creo que tu escuchas bastante mas musica retro que yo seguro. El problema de mezclar musicas de distintas épocas es que hay publico que solo va al auditorio a oír el mismo repertorio de hace doscientos años. Mahler, Debussy, Messiaen,Ravel y tantos otros recibieron muy malas criticas en su época. Dices que eres profesor de musica, lo siento por tus alumnos, tener un profesor tan corto de miras es triste , enseñales y que ellos decidan. Yo también estoy cansado de los señores conservadores que no ven mas allá de sus narices y critican todo lo que no entienden.
Por cierto respondiendo a tus preguntas. Emociona, gusta, es necesario y a la vez es un reto para los musicos.
Entonces lo que sobraba era tu comentario despreciando el mío. Por qué sobraba mi comentario?. Lo que decía era que no me parece una música "escuchable". Nada más. Te lo puedo argumentar desde el punto de vista incluso dodecafónico (que tampoco es esto, por cierto). Es un reto para los músicos. Innegable. Y para el director. Y para el compositor. Nadie, nunca por muchas veces que lo interprete puede aprenderse una línea de memoria. Era patético ver a Baremboin (al que adoro) leyendo compulsivamente la partitura. Retos para los músicos los hay en Mozart, en Beethoven, si quieres alguien contemporáneo en el mismísimo Stravinsky. Lo que no se puede es tomar el pelo a la gente. Mi punto de vista. Si quieres más argumento entramos en tonalidades, modalidades compases de amalgama o disonancias de cuarta aumentada, pero no quisiera llegar ahí.
Mais qu'est ce que c'est...
It is like 5 minutes before diarrhea ))
Jusqu'à 1'21, ça peut aller, c'est après que ça se gâte ! KC !!
דעם שטיק איז פאַקינג אָסאַם
Boulez resorted to note-spinning in his later music, especially in the works written in one continuous span, this being a prime example. But the length cannot support the presentation of the content he chooses. The Derive 2 from 1988/2002 is another (24'33) example. If the latter couldn't sustain it's length, so this Derive 2, being twice as long, cannot, either. Although Maestro Boulez said that he did not like repetition for the sake of repetition, in the end, these and other pieces come off that way - repetitive - in spite of subtle pains to avoid it. But the impression remains. The works that contain shorter movements (Le Marteau Sans Maitre, Notations) are more successful, in that the movements require greater contrasts, even as they also contain repetitions with minute alterations (especially those parts which reference Stravinsky's rhythmic innovations). Granted, there is beauty to be found in the slow parts of both Derive 2s, which reference Webern, but Boulez in my opinion was not successful in combining both.
Nada.
I can't sing it
And??
This is not strict serialism anymore. Boulez is just another failed Webern.
I am sure that if one would change half of the notes of this piece, nobody would notice the difference, not even Boulez himself....
+dou40006 Indeed. The pitch of the notes is irrelevant, the notes are chosen for their decorative value. It is purely materialistic art, sonic art, where the acustical surface is all there is. There is no psychological, expressive dimension, no 'inner space' created by tonal relationships.
If someone changed half of the notes of the Hammerklavier Sonata, Beethoven wouldn't note the difference either, after all, he was deaf.
+Ricardo Ferrari good point, so boulez might have been death too...I am inclined to think he was...
But honestly, if you changed half the notes of this piece it would be an entirely different work just like if you changed half the notes of any music from any period. I always love to listen to this work specially when I'm travelling by plane or bus and I don't get why so many people in this video are feeling threatened by this music and treating it like something alien.
+Ricardo Ferrari I think it comes from the fact that Boulez was extremely aggressive back in the day with his musical view, basically rejecting everything that was not in the academia of vanguardism. I think a American musician called him the hitler of music. Seriously you can take that boredom from start to end ?
dizzying)
make (someone) feel unsteady, confused, or amazed: the dizzying rate of change | her nearness dizzied him.
Not good to me!! and 48 minutes of it?? even less!!
Very noisy "music" !