Chris Pronger On What Made Mario Lemieux So Great
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Chris Pronger joins That's Hockey Talk to discuss the one player that he truly HATED playing against.
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This is Chris Pronger, he brought Edmonton to the finals in 06, he brought Anaheim there and won it in 07, went to the finals again with Philly a few years later. He' 6'6, one of the best defenseman ever.
I've now seen Pronger, Phil Housley and Chris Chelios all say Mario was the hardest to play against. Best ever imo
@@LeMaqnifique I beleive he did, yes.
Imagine Mario in a current league.
You can't double team him, like they used to. And it still didn't stop Mario.
You can't hook the guy anymore to stop him. Like it really mattered, because he still scored.
He would break the 215 point record. 100%. He was pretty much unstoppable in his prime. He'd deke ANY defenseman in the league and just score at will.
I can certainly see why Ovi is seen as the greatest scorer (especially if he breaks Gretzky's record). However, if you go back and watch how dangerous of a scorer Lemieux was in his day. It's hard to imagine anyone being above him. Now Ovi is certainly the most tenacious scorer ever; his tenacity, his ironman health and endless-motor make him legendary. But as far as a pure-skill scorer goes: 66 was probably the greatest ever.
@@MACK0142 I agree.
Ovi is the most consistently great goal scorer ever, but health aside, I think Lemieux was the greatest goal scorer ever.
He would've easily had over 1000 goals if healthy, and if truly healthy for 20 years he would've had 1100-1200.
Bourque said something like that too.
He said when Lemieux's "switch was on" he was the best ever, but that Gretzky's switch was always on.
I think a healthy Lemieux would've had the switch on more often.
You know when a defensive stalwart like Pronger is saying "how do I stop this guy?", you know it's basically an impossible to cover player. 6'6" and one of the best coverage defenders of his era, and just had nothing for Mario. Crazy skilled.
True. Well my guess is don't try and play him physically or outskate him (unless you are Bobby Orr). I would guess you ought to anticipate what he's going to do (you can't unless you are Niklas Lidstrom), then try and either cut off his passing lane, steal the puck and quickly pass it, or if all else fails, force him into releasing a shot your goaltender will see and catch.
Lemieux was the complete package.
the thing about lemieux that nobody even today does is his ability to slow the play down and his puck control was incredible. I've met mario before and he you don't realize how big the guy is
Yeah, he had size, reach, fast skating, weight, great hands, puckhandling, shooting, passing, IQ, and a big dick. If he was healthier, he would've been the GOAT.
0:43 - It’s so crazy that Pronger said that:
Just yesterday, I was randomly watching some Lemieux highlight videos, and there was a play where he got behind the Defenseman and ended up on a breakaway-and the first thing I thought was “Wait a minute… Mario wasn’t that fast… But he looks like he’s flying right there”.
I was so surprised by it, that I had to replay it a couple times to make sure I wasn’t just seeing things.
And that’s coming from someone who idolized Mario as a kid. I just never realized how fast he was, for the exact same reason that Pronger described.
I saw him catch Gartner from behind. Should you ever run into Steigy out and about town, ask him.
It's really interesting to hear Pronger say he didn't realize how fast Mario was, because that's the same impression you get watching him on TV. He looked like he was moving slowly, almost casually, and yet he was just flying past players who were going crazy trying to keep up with him.
So true. Having someone else break it down like you did makes sense. Lemieux slowed the game down even at full speed.
Lemieux wasn't fast. He was elusive. It's deceptively fast.
@@wizzerwiser2056 He was both. He is the most skilled player ever.
@@wizzerwiser2056 he could fly. Look at how fast he’s moving during his ionic goal against the north stars.
@@mikehari5658 I never said he wasn't fast. I said he was elusive
Came for Mario's story, loved that Roman Turek's story even more!
Pronger is a friken charismatic dude, fuck it im watching the whole interview
I still remember when he carried to the Oiler's on his back to the stanley cup finals. A beast of a defenceman.
Pronger is my favorite of all time...as a Blues fan, Brett was awesome....but Chris was different. He made us proud in a way nobody else did.
If Lemieux played with Hull in his prime what kind of numbers would those two put up!
Gretzky had the Greatest career but peak for peak if you are going in with a healthy Mario for a season he could do the same stuff and potentially elevate his defensive game in the Playoffs which Scotty Bowman challenged him to do and he remarked on how Mario did in his book.
Orr has a very similar case and Howe may be the greatest as well it is very tough to nail it down definitely. The link between all four is the Character just stands out.
Lemieux's 92-93 with 160 pts in 60 games coming off radiation treatment is the greatest single season in NHL history. His 199, considering his teammates in 88-89, was probably the 2nd greatest. He beat Gretzky by 30 goals that year and still lost the Hart to him!
@@66smithra - Gretzky had 175 points in his first 60 games in 1983/84, and was on pace for 240 points in 80 games (246 points had that played 82 games back then), before he was sidelined for 8 games with his shoulder injury.
@@michaelgriffiths8068 and Lemieux’s was greater. Gretzky wasn’t coming off radiation treatment and he was playing in the high flying early 80s. Also this wasn’t lemieuxs first 60 games, it was broken up with a long layoff in between and the final games were played at the end of the season when everyone was tightening up for the playoff push. This was the fewest games played for a scoring title winner in history. He missed almost 30% of the games.
@@66smithra - Gretzky had the scoring title wrapped up by Christmas in 1983/84. Coffey finished 2nd in scoring that year with 127 points. Gretzky had already scored 153 points by the end of his 51 game scoring streak lol, and could have taken the next 3 months off and still won the scoring title by almost 30 points haha. That is the fewest number of games needed to ever win a scoring title.
@@michaelgriffiths8068 What part of my statement was incorrect that Lemieux won the scoring title with fewest games played in NHL history?
The game: ruclips.net/video/j46AFSIw3yY/видео.html
I remember the game Pronger is talking about against Mario. Pronger's memory is not perfect, but neither is mine. It happened 27 years ago after all. But despite the game having a whole bunch of legends (including Gretzky, Hull and Jagr) Mario was just in a completely different class that game. He just steamrolled the Blues. A one player wrecking crew. People also probably can't imagine the kind of ice time Mario used to play (probably 27 or 28 minutes at 30 years old).
Pronger's a BEAST!😉🇨🇦🏒
Lemieux was smooth as smooth creamieux
🤣
Imagine if Pronger had been traded to the Flyers instead when Lindros was there? Legion of Doom Plus.
Pronger is the best person to describe my childhood pain. He is not lying about Turek.
what a great night with Pronger
Pronger is talking about Lemieux's 5th goal of the game and 8th point of the night back on 3/26/96.
I was at that game.
this is greatness
There are 2 factors that makes Wayne Gretzky stand out from the other legends and it has to do with Gretzky size, and his genius vision on the ice to dodge injury for most of his career. This was a gift most other greats did not have like Bobby Orr, Mike Bossy, Mario Lemiuex, etc with their careers cut short, but Gretzky under normal circumstances should have been tossed around like a tennis ball in the rink, but his visual instinct kept him from major injuries. This in itself sets him apart and most other greats just did not have that prowess. #2, I never thought it was fair to compare players that play an entire 80 games or close to 80 games and players that only play half or more than half a season. Most players including Gretzky slow down and get fatigued usually in the last half of the season and their PPG reduces a bit. i never thought it was fair to compare players that play only 2/3 a season like Lemieux and then get injured their body was not in full fatigue factor like Gretzky was and had Gretzky played the exact same amount of games as Lemieux during a season his PPG total would be significantly higher. The fatigue factor makes a huge difference on points total and Lemieux took advantage of that.
Gretzky needed a great team around him, a great skating team to open up the ice. Mario was a one man team… and saw the ice as well if not better than Wayne did.
That's true. Were it not for health problems, he would have had more Cups than Gretzky, I think.
Gretzky was good however at making the team around him great, he was half the reason Kurri emerged as the elite sniper, Messier the elite power forward, Coffey the elite offensive defenseman, etc. His leadership was what made him great, but his weaknesses also forced him to rely on vesting his teammates to step up.
Not that Lemieux wasn't an inferior leader though, he just didn't have to rely on his team as much (nor could he, since they weren't on the same level as him).
Prongers lit lol
Jagr said Lemieux can beat Coffey in a race.
Being able to skate helped Mario for certain! LOL
Based on games played Gretzky still comes out on top in terms of overall points but Mario did average better on goals. You still need to give it to Gretzky seeing he was so small and needed an enforcer on his line for most of the game.
slightly better on goals, assists Gretzky was miles ahead. But yes I agree with your final statement.
With Lemieuxs size and skill he is the goat!! Gretzky had the skill but not so much the size.
LEMIEUX WAS DEFINITELY A BETTER OVERALL PLAYER THAN WAYNE. Mario was totally unstoppable when healthy.
Lemieux had 5 goals, 2 assists and Pronger was -3
66>99 if he plays the same number of games
no he was never on pace to out produce gretzky. In goals sure, slightly. Not in assists or PPG. Gretzky was hands down the more valuable player. He also has 5 of the top 6 seasons between the two, and spots 1 2 and 3. Was far more consistent also. Stylistically sure Mario was great, but terms of value, gretzky is untouched. For a few years it was debatable, but over time Gretzky clearly was the better player on paper.
If Paul Coffey says Mario was better than Gretzky, that’s good enough for me. The fanboys of Gretzky or Gordie Howe (and his single career Gordie Howe hat trick) can go bury their heads in meaningless stats.
Gretzky says 66 was better too
Oh hush. In what way was he better? Gretzky did everything Mario did, but did it better, longer. You Marios are the ones hiding behind shoulda/woulda/coulda's.
@@AaronStephenTaylor spoken like someone who a. Never saw Mario play & b. Knows very little about hockey.
Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt
@@AaronStephenTaylor in everything
@@Whowhatme no he did not. He said he was a better goal scorer, which is BARELY true, in terms of points and assists, gretzky was miles ahead.
He didn't explain what made Mario great, aside from the speed.
Even gretzky said mario was better
no he did not. He said he was a better goal scorer. Statistically its true, but very slightly. Gretzky was miles ahead in assists and PPG. Wayne was absolutely the better player, and NEARLY as good a goal scorer.
…still, I would bet on 5 Bobby Orr’s over 5 Mario’s.
Bet
My take away: Chris printer is looking more and more like Jim Gaffigan with each passing year.
The so-called great one was protected by, the league & team mates] it, was trouble for any players: if, they dare touch the league's gold boy, Gretzky] the magnificent one was the great, tallent.... that I could remember]
lmao
Pronger is drunk in this interview, can't you tell...?
Lemieux's stats are not arguably better than Gretzky's. You could argue it but its a bad one.
lol. He’s bald.
Lemieux is clearly the best goal scorer ever. Ovi and Jagr are second and third.
The game was obviously much slower and easier during the Gretzky era(which gave Gretzky more time to think), but Gretzky is the best playmaker ever followed by Forsberg.
Orr is the best defenseman ever.
Lidstrom is the most complete defenseman ever.
Forsberg is the best passer ever followed by Gretzky. Gretzky has all the records, but Forsberg was an upgraded version given that he came into the NHL much later.
Datsyuk probably is the best defensive forward ever.
Forsberg is the most complete player ever - offensively and defensively. (Crosby second)
My dreamline would be
Jagr(LW) Forsberg(C) Lemieux(RW)
Orr(D) Lidstrom(D)
Roy(G)
Agree?
Mario and Gretzky are the 2 best playmakers ever. Forsberg was not at their level. Doug Harvey or Ray Bourque were better all around than Lidstrom, although it's close.
You have no Gordie Howe in there. And yes he should be
@@66smithra Nope. Be happy that I at least threw in Gretzky there to make you Canadians happy. To be honest Forsberg and Crosby are the best playmakers ever, but it’s not fair to Gretzky to compare when the game has evolved so much. I take that into consideration and that is why I say that Gretzky deserves to be called the best playmaker ever. But honestly it’s not even close. Never saw Gretzky chip quarterback passes over the defense like Forsberg did. You have to come to terms with that Gretzky is the Godfather of playmaking, and that he isn’t the best ever. Mario isn’t even close. He is the most natural goal scorer ever - the best goal scorer. Nobody has since his era done it better.
But the fact remains.. Forsberg held the puck and skated around until the chessboard opened up, and then he delivered the puck right on the blade to his teammates - every time, like a chess master. Not only was he the best playmaker ever, but clearly the most precise passer ever. He too had watched and learned from Gretzky and took it further. Don’t be a crybaby about it and be fair. Hockey fans are fair. That’s the whole point. If you wanna pretend and cry, you should become a soccer fan instead.
Harvey and Bourque could perhaps challenge Lidstrom for a slot on the dreamline, yes. They both have better point production, but defense wise Lidstrom is better. I picked Lidstrom to stabilize the line since Orr would be all over the ice.
@@sammyweed4771 He could absolutely take Lidstroms spot, but with Orr there I chose Lidstrom as a stabilizing factor for the line. You know that Orr would be leaving his position often to attack like a forward.. Can’t have two super-offensive defensemen on the line.
@@LorentzHallMusic I’m an American not a Canadian and Mario Lemieux is #2 all time in goals per game and assists per game. He’s better than forsberg in every offensive category there is.
Real hockey players know Mario was only bettered by Bobby Orr
No. “Real Hockey Players” know Gretzky and Lemieux are #1 and #2, and nobody else comes close.
@@CipherSerpico LOL. The only time you've been around a real hockey player is when you were looking for an autograph. The mere fact you don't understand Orr is the actual best hockey player ever, is proof of your ignorance
Real Hockey players know Gordie Howe is the best to ever play…. Put 5 Gordies against 5 Mario,s or 5 Gretzky and Howe wins every time !!!! His name is and always will be MR HOCKEY!!!!
@@sammyweed4771 Can you tell me _specifically_ how Gordie Howe was better than Mario Lemieux?
Was Howe a better skater than Lemieux?
Did Howe have a better shot than Lemieux?
Did Howe have better hands than Lemieux?
Was Howe a better passer than Lemieux?
Was Howe better one-on-one, than Lemieux?
Was Howe a better goal-scorer than Lemieux?
Was Howe a better playmaker than Lemieux?
In _what ways,_ was Gordie Howe better than Mario Lemieux?
@@CipherSerpico ok Specifically! The great Scotty Bowman All time winnings Coach. Who was around when Gordie played and coached Mario. The great Wayne Gretzky, All time points player, And Bobby Orr. The best Defenseman to ever play ALL said Gordie Howe was the best to ever played. The perfect ALL around player who could Shoot both Left and Right, Skate Create Space with size and strength Make plays And take care of him self and his Teammates. So the best to ever played said that I’ll take there word for it !! How’s that Specifically!!!
Give me a break with all these "legends" about old players. McDavid would make Mario & Gretzky look like beer leaguers
McDavud doesn’t exist if it isn’t for Gretzky and Lemieux- one the most ignorant things people say is that modern day players are better than legends of the past…Lemieux and Gretzky smoked, drank, didn’t workout or use supplements, used wood sticks 3x the weight of modern sticks, leather skates - 4x the weight of modern skates, etc etc and they grew the game and innovated the game in ways that players like McDavid learned from and adapted to.
It’s not even remotely a fair comparison. Even today, if McDavid had to use their skates and sticks it would equalize forgetting all the innovation, fitness and dietary elements.
Why is it taking him so long to get his first cup? Didn’t take them so long.
🙄
Not too many players that put up 8 points vs Pronger in 1 game
I think we can confidently say there was only one player who did
Dash 8 lol
@@sweetswing1 lol
@@danielmiller1462 Confidently? Ahh you shouldn't believe athletes, especially not Pronger.
@@RandomPlaceHolderName I know his family personally I’m a stl native good try
MARIO LEMIEUX IS THE BEST HOCKEY PLAYER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME PERIOD!
Lemieux was the prototype power forward.
Gordie Howe was the ultimate power forward. He was his own enforcer.
My favourite non Montreal Canadien player all time.
Pronger is a hundred percent. If he didn’t have a bad back or C he’s numbers would have been equal or better then the great one. He’s one player that can play in any generation. Protected himself, skates, assist, goals just unbelievable 💚💚💚🇨🇦
Before Mario got sick, I forget what his point total was, but w/e that number was, Gretzky reached it much quicker. Mario was never on pace to out produce Gretzky. Gretzky had 5 of the 6 top spots for their top ten seasons compared and holds the top 3 best seasons between the two. Lemiuex only slightly edged out Gretzky is GPG, but dominated in APG and total PPG. On paper its undebatable, Gretzky was firmly #1.
@@JunkBondTrader Mario never had an enforcer to protect him either!!!!
@@JunkBondTraderGreatzky played on basically an All Star team that won the Cup without him the second year after he left. They didn't even need him to win a cup. When Mario wasn't playing for Pittsburgh, they barely made the playoffs... if they even made it. Gretzky was lucky enough to play on a stacked squad. That's the difference. If Mario was on Edmonton he'd have at least as many points. I'm not going to say Mario was better but he was at least as good. As Pronger just said.
@@badmanskill1112 Yet again, if if if.
@@Mike-mc5ll So you haven't figured out some *TEAMS* are better than others yet. Check. ✅
66>99
Mario Lemieux in the mid 90s was amazing. He and Jagr and Francis on the same team. What a time to be alive
Pronger looking like Zack from Saved by the Bell.
Just FYI, no one scored 8pts in a game in the 90s and 00s. I believe the game Pronger is referring to is an 8-4 game, 26/3/96, where Lemieux went 5g2a +3 but got 4 pts off special teams. Pronger went -3. Hull -3, Gretz -2. Casey was clearly a shadow of his former self.
Are you sure about this one? Even Sam Gagner had an 8 point games in the 2000s I find this hard to believe
@@funtimes8296 Certain.
@@funtimes8296 Mario scored 8 point in 1989 and Sam Gagner scored 8 points in 2012. Pronger started his career in 1993-94 season.
Mario had three 8 point games, all in one season.
Lemieux had the most talent, the higher ceiling, versus Gretzky. He could match Gretzky on his greatest strength, intelligence and anticipation. Paired with greater physical ability, he was on another level.
Two things dropped him below Gretz. One, health issues, although that was beyond his control, probably shouldn't count.
The other was that Gretzky was simply more self-aware, being physically inferior and even less skilled than Lemieux. He thus relied even more on his intelligence and team play. That contributed to his greater achievements and longevity.
It also helped Gretzky was more marketable.
More marketable? He wasn’t French Canadian that’s why
Unfortunately, Lemieux is responsible for his cancer. He admitted he used to smoke half a pack a day or more and he stopped once he got his cancer diagnoses. the other stuff i agree was beyond his control.
@chrisolson2846 Nah he had family history of Hodkins lymphoma. It was hereditary more than anything.
@@chrisolson2846so 100% his smoking caused his cancer? Shitty comment to make.
gretzky had higher point production, dominated him in assists, barely lost out on GPG. Gretzky had 5 of the 6 best seasons between the two, including spots 1, 2 and 3. i could go on. Gretzky was firmly the more valuable player between the two, minus a few outlier seasons. Gretzky was much more consistent season to season as well. Even if you take the health out of the issue, Gretzky reached Marios "healthy career totals" quicker than Mario. Mario was never on track to outpace Wayne. I think style of play biases many peoples view that Mario was better.
Roman Turek is catching strays. Lol injuries are unfortunate but they are a part of the game.
0:28-No,he's not a penguins fan. He's just speaking facts.
Not only that, Lemieux played in the East, which I understand was less wide-open than the Smythe division which had only weak teams during Gretzky's prime for the Oilers to face until the Flames got better.
He also didn't have any Hall-of-Famers in his first 3 seasons to play with. Gretzky already had Messier and Lowe in his first season, Coffey, Kurri, Anderson in S2 and Fuhr in S3. Those are the players he got to play with (maybe not yet playing HoF level) and they got better.
Furthermore, I've watched games in which I've heard the announcers say that Lemieux's defense is under-rated. I've never heard that about Gretzky.
You don't need to be a Penguins fan to appreciate how good Mario really was.
@@September2004 Back in those days, Gretzky didn't need to defend. Kurri did the defensive work. Easily the fastest player on that Oilers team, and arguably the best defensive forward aswell.
Lemieux got Rob Fucking Brown to score 50 goals as his linemate. Francis and Jagr, who both have more points than him, came later. But Rob Brown?
Mario played well the Europeans, too, like Straka, Kovalev and Nedved. He made everyone better.
@@NoahBodze Facts
I don't follow what Pronger was saying about Ludvig and his reputation. Did he mean drinking ? Letting pucks go by him ?
Drinking. He meant Turek for some reason went on the wagon during the eight days off and it screwed up his mojo.
yeah i took it as he got the "shakes" from not drinking and couldn't focus during practice, but i could be wrong.
@@marcfitzhenry7581 I took it as he got out of what was normal and it affected his game. Mental, not physical
Click bait title
Just what I was thinking...
Beyond me why people look to Rupp for hockey knowledge, amazed me he was able to stay in the NHL for as long as he did
bit longer than you did
@@charlisantini3403 Doesnt change the fact he was a bum & still is as a analyst
@@patientmental875 you mean he did whatever he could to stain in the best league and the world and collect a million dollar paycheck? Yeah, what a loser. By that logic, you middling at your meaningless job makes you what exactly?
Just of our curiosity… how many games did you play??
@@Whowhatme 327