Nice follow-up, Terry. Alway a good idea to point out the compromises we sometimes need to make to get the best overall results and meet what the customer needs as best we can. I especially liked your point about not adding a preamp when your source is more noise than signal. That applies to audio and RF signals both.
What stylus size to use is one of the maddening things about early records. Hardcore 78 rpm collectors will have a small army of different cartridges and styii (2 mil, 2.7 mil, 3 mil, 4 mil) to be used with different 78 rpm records. With early records there just were not accepted standards in place across the industry. Additionally, some were recorded at 78 rpm, some at 74 rpm, some at 80 rpm! Also - different record companies used different equalization curves when mastering to disc - The RIAA curve did not come into wide usage until the 40s. So many headaches - but such great music.
Terry I hope you did not beat yourself up too much over this. You brought to light a situation that some people may come across and I thought you did a wonderful restore on this record player and showed a fix. Maybe you can or the owner can find the correct needle/ cartridge at a ham/radio swap meet. Love from NW Colorado. Thanxz
Like many others, something stuck in my craw (sp?) about the outcome in video-1; I _really_ appreciate you taking the time and effort to explain the evolution of this repair (even if it's not something you'll be doing often...). I'm thinking that you're like me, in that pulling faint signals out of the noise (as a DXer will do) is one of those intellectual puzzles that we just can't let go unchallenged...
If you want to try more gain from the amplifier, see if the amplifier employs negative feedback from the output transformer to the pre-amp tube cathode. If so, you might put a switch in the feedback loop to open the loop, which will increase gain, when you play the little records.
That's good to know. Last year I had to fix a more modern record player, except the issue was how a limit switch was oriented. I hate the mechanical tweaking part of working on old (and new) stuff.
A suggestion for the family. These old recordings can be recorded into a computer and then digitally restored. There is audio processing software that will do wonders. There is software that is designed for the sole purpose of restoring audio from old records. This type of software has algorithms designed to reduce the surface noise from the old records. Then, the audio signal can be boosted, re-equalized to bring out bass and treble, and then be saved to CD.
Hello D-Labs you have repaired the record player but this amplifier without a preamp needs a pretty beafy input signal, sould be at least 3Volts. Idon't remember if PP or effective. I think you should measure with an osciikoscope. This because the sound of the original record is pretty tiny. Some preamplification could be useful, but it could introduce noise. Best regards
Terry, always watch your show. Now, you would realize more audio IF you would lower the noise floor. Ya still didn't clean up that hum/noise floor because the leads to the cartridge have NO shielding on them! Been playing with phonos for many years, and the unshielded wires always creates that issue that is easily remedied by just shielding them.
You could try flipping the needle to LP. It will be a smaller stylus and might be a better fit. Nothing to lose, they're only going to play LPs on there if they're in a real hurry...
I have a 1941 RCA record changer that has a second tonearm for making those home recordings. It is quite heavy, and as I recall the stylus is actually heated to cut the grooves. Kinda cool. You could use the microphone, or flip a switch and record from the radio. Imagine your own mix record.
What you can do, is use Audacity or any other similar audio-editing tool to enhance signal:noise ratio. I'd assume, that's not something you can rely on automatic, a lot of handwork will be necessary. But that's not listening to records any more.
There is an audio restoration software package called Diamond Cut that can be used to bring those recordings pretty close to how they originally sounded. It works really well and it's not very expensive. You just need to make WAV recordings of the antique media. I have used it to restore antique recordings for my Dad when he was still alive. I still use it when someone asks me to restore antique recordings.
You would be amazed at what can be accomplished today with noise reduction plug-ins and such. If someone were to make a recording of that disk much of that noise can be removed in the original recording can be enhanced tremendously.
another option would be to transfer those recordings to digital and clean em up and kill the noise digitally and then the family would have a better record of the voices.
Sundog Audio That was my answer also! Find the correct needle(if possible) and transfer the recordings to digital to last forever! Love from NW Colorado . Thanxz
Try flipping the cartridge over to the LP stylus for the home made record. Since LP grooves are wider than 78s, you should get a better response from the wider stylus.
Just the fact that you have some of those home recorded discs in your hands, makes you far more of an expert on them than me. I have never touched one before. but I was thinking, Maybe try flipping the stylus? Also, there are different stylus shapes as well. Spherical, Conical, elliptical, etc. Maybe a different shaped needle would do the trick.
Just want to say not all records can be played successfully by more modern cartridges. Could not get to play an old 3/8" Edison disk record on my kiddie phonograph player back when I was 14 years old. I tried the trick with the pennies too. Still was hard to hear it. Haven't tried to do anything about it but I still have that old Edison record. It was meant to be played on a Gramophone machine perhaps.
The edison disk was meant to be played on an Edison player. It spins at 80 rpm, and the grooves are not laterally cut. In other words the needle on an edison moves up and down, not side to side. That is why it would not play.
@@billrenfro9798 It did play at 78rpm (it was a record platter called a Diamond Disc )but very low volume. Hard to find them now and not very valuable or so I'm told!
@@hestheMaster It will sort of play. 78 is to slow and the volume will be low and poor quality. As you found out. On an Edison player they are really loud and good quality sound for their time. There were special reproducers used to play them on a non edison player. The wind up phonos could usually be adjusted to run slightly fast. In the early days the 78 speed was not standardized. Diamond Discs are not very hard to find. Most are inexpensive.
Hey Terry, did you try flipping the needle over to the other side? I think I saw both a 78 and a 33 rpm needle on that cartridge. Cool that the 78 one would be wider than the other. Always wondered
That sounds light years better than it did in the first video. Great job Terry!
Yes, thanks
Nice follow-up, Terry. Alway a good idea to point out the compromises we sometimes need to make to get the best overall results and meet what the customer needs as best we can. I especially liked your point about not adding a preamp when your source is more noise than signal. That applies to audio and RF signals both.
The family is about to discover that not all heroes wear capes, some wear glasses and have buzz cuts. 👍🌹
What stylus size to use is one of the maddening things about early records. Hardcore 78 rpm collectors will have a small army of different cartridges and styii (2 mil, 2.7 mil, 3 mil, 4 mil) to be used with different 78 rpm records. With early records there just were not accepted standards in place across the industry. Additionally, some were recorded at 78 rpm, some at 74 rpm, some at 80 rpm! Also - different record companies used different equalization curves when mastering to disc - The RIAA curve did not come into wide usage until the 40s. So many headaches - but such great music.
Terry I hope you did not beat yourself up too much over this. You brought to light a situation that some people may come across and I thought you did a wonderful restore on this record player and showed a fix. Maybe you can or the owner can find the correct needle/ cartridge at a ham/radio swap meet. Love from NW Colorado. Thanxz
I think you have done the best job possible Terry!
Like many others, something stuck in my craw (sp?) about the outcome in video-1; I _really_ appreciate you taking the time and effort to explain the evolution of this repair (even if it's not something you'll be doing often...). I'm thinking that you're like me, in that pulling faint signals out of the noise (as a DXer will do) is one of those intellectual puzzles that we just can't let go unchallenged...
Yes my friend, you are correct, too many unanswered Q's on this one, hopefully all understand now
If you want to try more gain from the amplifier, see if the amplifier employs negative feedback from the output transformer to the pre-amp tube cathode. If so, you might put a switch in the feedback loop to open the loop, which will increase gain, when you play the little records.
That's good to know. Last year I had to fix a more modern record player, except the issue was how a limit switch was oriented. I hate the mechanical tweaking part of working on old (and new) stuff.
A suggestion for the family. These old recordings can be recorded into a computer and then digitally restored. There is audio processing software that will do wonders.
There is software that is designed for the sole purpose of restoring audio from old records. This type of software has algorithms designed to reduce the surface noise from the old records. Then, the audio signal can be boosted, re-equalized to bring out bass and treble, and then be saved to CD.
Even using Audacity and then running the stock compressor settings would amplify her voice but I think we are getting out of scope for this project.
I think that is a very good idea, process digitally as best as can be done, and still hang on to the original as keepsake..
Hello D-Labs you have repaired the record player but this amplifier without a preamp needs a pretty beafy input signal, sould be at least 3Volts. Idon't remember if PP or effective. I think you should measure with an osciikoscope. This because the sound of the original record is pretty tiny. Some preamplification could be useful, but it could introduce noise. Best regards
Terry- that was an excellent explanation. Well done my friend
Terry, always watch your show.
Now, you would realize more audio IF you would lower the noise floor.
Ya still didn't clean up that hum/noise floor because the leads to the cartridge have NO shielding on them!
Been playing with phonos for many years, and the unshielded wires always creates that issue that is easily remedied by just shielding them.
The logical choice was best as you proved.
You could try flipping the needle to LP. It will be a smaller stylus and might be a better fit. Nothing to lose, they're only going to play LPs on there if they're in a real hurry...
The end of that recording is hysterical. Thanks Terry!
Fantastic. Awesome.
I have a 1941 RCA record changer that has a second tonearm for making those home recordings. It is quite heavy, and as I recall the stylus is actually heated to cut the grooves. Kinda cool. You could use the microphone, or flip a switch and record from the radio. Imagine your own mix record.
What you can do, is use Audacity or any other similar audio-editing tool to enhance signal:noise ratio. I'd assume, that's not something you can rely on automatic, a lot of handwork will be necessary. But that's not listening to records any more.
Great explanation.
There is an audio restoration software package called Diamond Cut that can be used to bring those recordings pretty close to how they originally sounded. It works really well and it's not very expensive. You just need to make WAV recordings of the antique media. I have used it to restore antique recordings for my Dad when he was still alive. I still use it when someone asks me to restore antique recordings.
Very interesting, love the microscope shots to show what is really going on.
Great couple of videos as usual Terry - thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated.
You would be amazed at what can be accomplished today with noise reduction plug-ins and such. If someone were to make a recording of that disk much of that noise can be removed in the original recording can be enhanced tremendously.
Well done!
another option would be to transfer those recordings to digital and clean em up and kill the noise digitally and then the family would have a better record of the voices.
Sundog Audio That was my answer also! Find the correct needle(if possible) and transfer the recordings to digital to last forever! Love from NW Colorado
. Thanxz
Was spinning some vinyl over the weekend love the sound.
Like a cell phone amp..cant amplify nothing..
Awesome fix Terry.
Also glad to see you are still up and busy.
73, kb8qlz
Try flipping the cartridge over to the LP stylus for the home made record. Since LP grooves are wider than 78s, you should get a better response from the wider stylus.
@P Anon I'm pretty sure 33⅓ grooves are even more narrow than 78s; that's why they were initially referred to as 'Microgroove'...
Just the fact that you have some of those home recorded discs in your hands, makes you far more of an expert on them than me. I have never touched one before. but I was thinking, Maybe try flipping the stylus? Also, there are different stylus shapes as well. Spherical, Conical, elliptical, etc. Maybe a different shaped needle would do the trick.
Keen analysis sir. Thriller sir.👍🙏
Great stuff Terry.
Thanks for all you do sir. Unfortunately you've you've become a victim of youtube
Yep, Having to defend my repairs, Not my 1st choice
He's saying the grooves in the little record isn't enough to produce enough signal to amplify.the needle won't pick the signal up
Good man.
Just want to say not all records can be played successfully by more modern cartridges. Could not get to play an old 3/8" Edison disk record on my kiddie
phonograph player back when I was 14 years old. I tried the trick with the pennies too. Still was hard to hear it. Haven't tried to do anything about it but I still
have that old Edison record. It was meant to be played on a Gramophone machine perhaps.
The edison disk was meant to be played on an Edison player. It spins at 80 rpm, and the grooves are not laterally cut. In other words the needle on an edison moves up and down, not side to side. That is why it would not play.
@@billrenfro9798 It did play at 78rpm (it was a record platter called a Diamond Disc )but very low volume.
Hard to find them now and not very valuable or so I'm told!
@@hestheMaster It will sort of play. 78 is to slow and the volume will be low and poor quality. As you found out. On an Edison player they are really loud and good quality sound for their time. There were special reproducers used to play them on a non edison player. The wind up phonos could usually be adjusted to run slightly fast. In the early days the 78 speed was not standardized. Diamond Discs are not very hard to find. Most are inexpensive.
Hey Terry, did you try flipping the needle over to the other side?
I think I saw both a 78 and a 33 rpm needle on that cartridge.
Cool that the 78 one would be wider than the other. Always wondered
Hello, Yes, wont produce any audio on the LP needle
Did you try flipping the needle to the LP side?
There is still some hum in the background. Is that coming from the power supply, or the record?