I think the slack in the new tensioner is because there is no oil pressure yet. I'm highlighting that I think that's why. Busy doing the exact same job now. Thanks for the useful video. Wish I had a 2nd man for torquing these bolts!
I see replacement of sprocket bot, or not, discussed and with different opinions several forums. The original Seat repair manual for this engine does NOT mention replacing the bolts. The Haynes manual says to replace. Both manual says to replace the crank bolt for comparison (and lubricate it according to Seat manual). The cam sprocket bolts are 12.9, and according to specs I find online the tensile strength of 12.9 is minimum 1220 MPa. Some googling show me that max tensile strength of cam steel is 1200 MPa, but others states higher (and I don't know about the ones in the 1.2 engine). So there will probably be similar deformation inside the cams as the bolt threads if my interpretation is correct. Just doing the same job with the sprockets just now after a head overhaul (burned and pitted valves and seats), and I see the same with the tensioner that "jumps" when cam resistance gets above a certain limit (as due to no oil pressure behind the "piston"). On my first attempt of turning the engine to check everything, the exhaust cam sprocket either slid on the cam or it jumped a tooth when the tensioner jumped. So I had to loosen the bolt on that sprocket and adjust the cam to right position (it was easy to turn using the timing lock and a water pump plier). I have not replaced the chain as it says only to "inspect" on 240000km, and the engine is 60000 away from that and the car will probably end its life before... New engine turning verification looks fine even with only additional 45 degrees on the bolts (as I didn't want to torque them up to full before checking again). After several rotations (even with tensioner jumping each rotation), the timing tools gets in perfectly at TDC. But it worries me what actually happened when the exhaust cam slid on first check. Any suggestions? Should I remove both sprockets again, degrease contact surface (as I guess friction here is the only way of transferring the torque from the chain to the cams), and put additional pressure to the tensioner when torqueing up the bolts to its first step (50Nm)? Any thoughts or suggestions?
The tensioner has no oil pressure behind it so yes that is normal for it to compress when you turn the engine by hand. Oh and those camshaft sprocket bolts have to be replaced. Shouldn't reuse them.
You have saved the day with the same engine that I was having problems with. A huge thank you for taking the time to go through all this. Can't wait to the final video. Then one can finish mine. ;-) Cheers, Sandy. I owe you a few beers.
Thank you for the videos and the great help with this job. I just did mine today, same car and engine. I followed all the steps and specs and changed both chains as well. During the assembly, all marks were ok on both camshafts and the crankshaft and TDC. After torquing everything down I turned the engine and all marks were spot on again. So I finished the assembly and when I started the engine, it started straight away and after 2 seconds the tensioner pumped oil and the rattling disappeared and the engine started to run nice and smooth. But maybe 10 seconds later all of a sudden another rattling started and this time wasn't going away. It sounded from the area of the timing chain. I stopped the engine and after a while started it again and the noise was there all the time. I tried to rev it a little bit in case it needs to pump oil better up to 2000 rpm but no difference. Weather at idle or higher revs, accelerating or decelerating the noise was always there and not changing. I then turned the engine off and left it. Tomorrow will open the camshafts covers to check the timing again. Also, new Castrol Edge 5W30 oil and oil filter filled up to the max mark. Anyone experiencing anything like this after changing the whole kit of chains?
OK guys the problem is solved now. After doing all the work on my own all day (took me 12 hours non-stop work on my own) I was very tired and dehidrated at the end. So I mus have forgoten to tighten the three bolts on the water pump. So when I first started the engine after 10 seconds they got realy lose and the belt was half way out of the sproket. I was lucky that no damage happened from this. In the morning when I checked everything again I first saw this belt not in place and the bolts lose. When tightening them everything was fine. So make sure you double and triple check everything before you start your engine :)
@@Toschomacher thank you for your feed-back... I have a question, I have the same engine, what are the symptoms to change the timing chain ? I have a noise at cold start 1-3 seconds, but not everyday...
@@jedgr usually when you hear chain rattling on a cold start is an indication of a slag, which could be stretched chain, tired tentioner (if it's a spring tentioner) or both. In any case the best and safe thing to do is to inspect and best change the whole kit with new parts to make sure you won't damage the entire engine if you slip a tooth or more on the timing. Especially if you have done the max mileage for this chain. Usually if you get such a noise and symptoms means you are already way beyond the chain life.
Mine too... all 6 intake valves were touched. Just finished the assembly of the cover. Was also puzzled with the tensioner, but then I saw your video.🙂 Just couldn't get the camshaft bolts to reach 90° on torque. Could only get 45 to 50° (I was alone and did all my strength). Any thoughts? Hope wilk work fine.
Hi thanks for the video, one question, if the crank was 180° out the surely the cams were 180° out too if locked. Maybe i missed the last where you said you rotated the cams too.
Hi Sandy thanks for posting these videos very helpfull, my daughter's 10 plate has same problem just hope it hasn't done valves, I can't seem to find the crankshaft sensor is it over the back on the top of the bellhousing,all so can I lock the engine with the TDC peg so as to undo the bottom pulley my zippy gun hasn't got the guts in it to wiz it off,thanks
Great video as usual sandy very informative, I unfortunately followed all procedures got it all lined up hand turned several times without plugs in and all still lined up but for some reason have zero compression in all cylinders, leak down test shown all air escaping through intake pipe, triple checked my timing and still looks good so unsure what I’ve done but pointing to intake valves even tho they were fine before I removed the timing chain with crank and cams locked before hand, wtf age I done or am I missing 😂
Excelente trabalho 😂. Tenho um vw polo 1.2 12v, está com um problema, a rotação do motor em relanti baixa até 600rpm,560rpm , mas se eu acelerar ele estabiliza nas 830rpm ,mas já entendi que algo não está bem.Mudei o sensor Map não resolveu, não tem fugas de vácuo, tem velas ignição novas, revisão a 100% ,não entendo, só me resta verificar se é o sensor rotação 😊
Lovely stuff my friend all the information I had gathered regarding this process on this engine all made sense thanks to your video very much appreciated and have a blessed Christmas wishes from me thank you.
Very informative videos you have. Got another one of these coming up this week so thought I'd brush up and havent done one in over a year. Thank you. Subbed.
I have spent ages trying to install the crank tool but I have failed. Than I had an idea. Can I get my crank to TDC by matching up the marks on Oil pump pulley and the adjacent pulley. Isn't this TDC? I have checked and piston one is at the top at the same time as marks on pulleys match?
Thanks for the reply, if you totally lost the timing could you just set piston 1 to tdc and then set the cams to tdc lock them in place then fit the chain?
Hi sandy yesterday replaced my timing chain on 1.2 petrol polo , however during test start it was observed that the oil pump isn’t pumping oil . Earlier i mean before the repair pump was fine. What could be the issue? Could it be the pump or timing installation setting? Please respond
Hey Sandy, Great Video! Is there a part 4 to this series? My polo's timing chain seems to have jumped and it won't rev over 3000 rpm without cutting out! Want to do the repairs myself rather than spending £1000 to fix it, so will be using your videos for guidance :)
For anyone who might need it. Part 3 is pretty much the end anyway you just put ~1mm thick bead of RTV silicone on the timing cover and you can put a very thin layer on the engine side to ensure theres a full mating coverage. The key to ensuring a proper seal is cleaning old silicone off then degreasing all mating faces.
Hi Sandy I’m having a nightmare with these timing mark. You said your timing marks were 180 degs out on the crank at the beginning. But they must have been right 180 deg out as after you put the new chain back on with the cam tool in place you were on the exhaust stroke. Can you please clarify where tdc mark should be with the cam tool in? Marks together or 180 deg out. Many thanks I’m having a nightmare with this. If I put all the tooling in (crank and cam) and install the chain every time the cam position is 180 degrees out the with the mark together (That is why I think the dots/marks must be opposite when you install the cam tool) maybe!
Just go with the timing tools if they correctly in/engaged then the timing must be right don’t worry about dots on crank maybe it’s just an anomaly. Time up and turn crank by hand to make sure nothing hits before u crank it up
It all worked out. For any one doing this job with the tools fitted your be on TDC no.1 exhaust stroke not compression. Thanks for doing this video Sandy.
Hi, great video, Thanks. I'm in the same process right now, but I have issue ! The tool to maintain the 2 camshat in position broke inside when trying to remove pulley, even when trying to block camshaft pulley with big tool like yours ... Pulley is free wheel so blocking it will not prevent camshaft to rotate a little bit, and the 2 small tools to maintain it will brake again I guess. Any solution ?
Hi just watched the video about to buy one of these with timing chain rattle but currently doesn't run, i heard you saying it must have a big clearance do you think this would be ok or is there still chance for a valve damage>? Great video by the way, thank you very much!
@@sandyande Thank you very much, i bought the car turns out still runs fine just in limp mode and found another video of yours points out the issue how jumped chain can cause the limp mode, i will now change the chain thanks to your kindness in sharing your knowledge. Keep this up and thank you.
Firstly why didn’t you time it up to start with when you have to correct timing kit seems a bit backwards to me. But the you rattle on about flex in the chain it’s not flex it’s because there is no oil in the timing chain tensioner which hydraulically keeps tension on the tinning chain guide. The tensioner won’t work until its got oil in it as that is how tension is held onto the timing chain guide it’s not flex it’s not oil pressure in the tensioner 😝😜🙈
@@sandyande did you get round to doing that? Can’t find the video. Was looking to DIY the job but as the first 3 videos were great but I’d be stuck up till this part of the videos. Hope you can help
@@sandyande just wondering what’s left to do or is that the job finished in terms of the replacement? Is it just left to fit everything back up in reverse? If so is it all done the same way except that we have to silicone the timing chain cover and the sump
Nice Sandy, I am enjoying this. I am guessing with the tensioner under oil pressure the chain "jump" is likely much less pronounce...I am sure your well aware of that. Think also with only 3 cylinders the valve spring compression and subsequent decompression @ over center on the cam lobes appears much more pronounced.....just a thought, I don't know for certain. Cheers Pal.
Did you see my video I added to the comments in part 1 , my fabia with the same engine rattles most start ups and the garage where it's under warrenty say it's normal and ok . I'm sure there fobbing me off until my guarantee has run out
What you did wrong mate was you didnt get the crank timing tool into the hole in the flywheel. When they jump the cams need retiming, leave the crank at tdc. You were very lucky not to bend a valve turning the crank 180!!!!
Use these timing tools vw polo Best Q Engine Timing Locking Pin Tool Set For Lupo Polo Skoda Fabia Seat Ibiza www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072JXJTF7/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_3HY7EbXM7SAJY
I think the slack in the new tensioner is because there is no oil pressure yet. I'm highlighting that I think that's why. Busy doing the exact same job now. Thanks for the useful video. Wish I had a 2nd man for torquing these bolts!
I see replacement of sprocket bot, or not, discussed and with different opinions several forums. The original Seat repair manual for this engine does NOT mention replacing the bolts. The Haynes manual says to replace. Both manual says to replace the crank bolt for comparison (and lubricate it according to Seat manual). The cam sprocket bolts are 12.9, and according to specs I find online the tensile strength of 12.9 is minimum 1220 MPa. Some googling show me that max tensile strength of cam steel is 1200 MPa, but others states higher (and I don't know about the ones in the 1.2 engine). So there will probably be similar deformation inside the cams as the bolt threads if my interpretation is correct.
Just doing the same job with the sprockets just now after a head overhaul (burned and pitted valves and seats), and I see the same with the tensioner that "jumps" when cam resistance gets above a certain limit (as due to no oil pressure behind the "piston"). On my first attempt of turning the engine to check everything, the exhaust cam sprocket either slid on the cam or it jumped a tooth when the tensioner jumped. So I had to loosen the bolt on that sprocket and adjust the cam to right position (it was easy to turn using the timing lock and a water pump plier). I have not replaced the chain as it says only to "inspect" on 240000km, and the engine is 60000 away from that and the car will probably end its life before... New engine turning verification looks fine even with only additional 45 degrees on the bolts (as I didn't want to torque them up to full before checking again). After several rotations (even with tensioner jumping each rotation), the timing tools gets in perfectly at TDC.
But it worries me what actually happened when the exhaust cam slid on first check. Any suggestions? Should I remove both sprockets again, degrease contact surface (as I guess friction here is the only way of transferring the torque from the chain to the cams), and put additional pressure to the tensioner when torqueing up the bolts to its first step (50Nm)? Any thoughts or suggestions?
"To see if my timing is shhhpot on". Thanks for the comprehensive fruitful tutorial👌
The tensioner has no oil pressure behind it so yes that is normal for it to compress when you turn the engine by hand.
Oh and those camshaft sprocket bolts have to be replaced. Shouldn't reuse them.
You have saved the day with the same engine that I was having problems with. A huge thank you for taking the time to go through all this. Can't wait to the final video. Then one can finish mine. ;-) Cheers, Sandy. I owe you a few beers.
No problem my friend glad to help, Merry Christmas, Sandy
@@sandyande And a Mery Christmas to you and yours.
Thank you for the videos and the great help with this job.
I just did mine today, same car and engine. I followed all the steps and specs and changed both chains as well. During the assembly, all marks were ok on both camshafts and the crankshaft and TDC. After torquing everything down I turned the engine and all marks were spot on again. So I finished the assembly and when I started the engine, it started straight away and after 2 seconds the tensioner pumped oil and the rattling disappeared and the engine started to run nice and smooth. But maybe 10 seconds later all of a sudden another rattling started and this time wasn't going away. It sounded from the area of the timing chain. I stopped the engine and after a while started it again and the noise was there all the time. I tried to rev it a little bit in case it needs to pump oil better up to 2000 rpm but no difference. Weather at idle or higher revs, accelerating or decelerating the noise was always there and not changing. I then turned the engine off and left it. Tomorrow will open the camshafts covers to check the timing again.
Also, new Castrol Edge 5W30 oil and oil filter filled up to the max mark.
Anyone experiencing anything like this after changing the whole kit of chains?
OK guys the problem is solved now.
After doing all the work on my own all day (took me 12 hours non-stop work on my own) I was very tired and dehidrated at the end. So I mus have forgoten to tighten the three bolts on the water pump. So when I first started the engine after 10 seconds they got realy lose and the belt was half way out of the sproket. I was lucky that no damage happened from this. In the morning when I checked everything again I first saw this belt not in place and the bolts lose. When tightening them everything was fine.
So make sure you double and triple check everything before you start your engine :)
@@Toschomacher thank you for your feed-back... I have a question, I have the same engine, what are the symptoms to change the timing chain ? I have a noise at cold start 1-3 seconds, but not everyday...
@@jedgr usually when you hear chain rattling on a cold start is an indication of a slag, which could be stretched chain, tired tentioner (if it's a spring tentioner) or both. In any case the best and safe thing to do is to inspect and best change the whole kit with new parts to make sure you won't damage the entire engine if you slip a tooth or more on the timing. Especially if you have done the max mileage for this chain. Usually if you get such a noise and symptoms means you are already way beyond the chain life.
Hi Sandy, great series on the timing chain replacement on 1.2 polo, can you send a link to part 4 please
Good work buddy I really enjoy watching your videos Keep up the good work buddy
Thanks for your kind comments, Merry Christmas cheers sandy
Excellent video & narration...Greetings from India...
Thank you so much for this video! I have same motor and same issue with the chain and tensioner, unfortunatelly it damages input valves on my engine.
Pity, just remove head and replace valves cheers sandy
Mine too... all 6 intake valves were touched. Just finished the assembly of the cover. Was also puzzled with the tensioner, but then I saw your video.🙂
Just couldn't get the camshaft bolts to reach 90° on torque. Could only get 45 to 50° (I was alone and did all my strength). Any thoughts?
Hope wilk work fine.
Thanks for the guide. I think you’re supposed to soak the chains in oil for 30 minutes according to manufacturer’s recommendation.
Hi thanks for the video, one question, if the crank was 180° out the surely the cams were 180° out too if locked. Maybe i missed the last where you said you rotated the cams too.
Hi Mate, great series of vids! Did you manage to do a Part 4?
Hi Sandy thanks for posting these videos very helpfull, my daughter's 10 plate has same problem just hope it hasn't done valves, I can't seem to find the crankshaft sensor is it over the back on the top of the bellhousing,all so can I lock the engine with the TDC peg so as to undo the bottom pulley my zippy gun hasn't got the guts in it to wiz it off,thanks
Great video as usual sandy very informative, I unfortunately followed all procedures got it all lined up hand turned several times without plugs in and all still lined up but for some reason have zero compression in all cylinders, leak down test shown all air escaping through intake pipe, triple checked my timing and still looks good so unsure what I’ve done but pointing to intake valves even tho they were fine before I removed the timing chain with crank and cams locked before hand, wtf age I done or am I missing 😂
Excelente trabalho 😂. Tenho um vw polo 1.2 12v, está com um problema, a rotação do motor em relanti baixa até 600rpm,560rpm , mas se eu acelerar ele estabiliza nas 830rpm ,mas já entendi que algo não está bem.Mudei o sensor Map não resolveu, não tem fugas de vácuo, tem velas ignição novas, revisão a 100% ,não entendo, só me resta verificar se é o sensor rotação 😊
Lovely stuff my friend all the information I had gathered regarding this process on this engine all made sense thanks to your video very much appreciated and have a blessed Christmas wishes from me thank you.
No problem my friend happy to help, Happy Christmas & God Bless, Sandy
Hiya happy new year
Quick question is it possible to reuse the crankshaft bolt?
Hope so my friend as that's what I'm going to do. My pal who's a mechanic says that only cylinder head bolts are critical to renew, cheers sandy
Tensioner is flexing as under no oil pressure 😁
Very informative videos you have. Got another one of these coming up this week so thought I'd brush up and havent done one in over a year. Thank you. Subbed.
Fantastic video. Great job on doing this your driveway. Price in Denmark at VW is £900 for changing it.
Thanks for your comments cheers sandy
would you advise using sealer if removing and reinstalling the rocker cover?
obviously the crank tool holds the crank in time. where are the pins for the cam shafts? how do those pins you slot in on the cams hold them in time?
I have spent ages trying to install the crank tool but I have failed. Than I had an idea. Can I get my crank to TDC by matching up the marks on Oil pump pulley and the adjacent pulley. Isn't this TDC? I have checked and piston one is at the top at the same time as marks on pulleys match?
Hello Sandy,
Nice videos!
I can’t see part 4 of thuis video.
Can You help me?
Thank You
Am I rite in thinking it would be a good idea to set the engine at tdc at the start and lock the crank in that position?
Yes
Thanks for the reply, if you totally lost the timing could you just set piston 1 to tdc and then set the cams to tdc lock them in place then fit the chain?
Hi sandy yesterday replaced my timing chain on 1.2 petrol polo , however during test start it was observed that the oil pump isn’t pumping oil . Earlier i mean before the repair pump was fine. What could be the issue? Could it be the pump or timing installation setting? Please respond
Hey Sandy, Great Video! Is there a part 4 to this series? My polo's timing chain seems to have jumped and it won't rev over 3000 rpm without cutting out! Want to do the repairs myself rather than spending £1000 to fix it, so will be using your videos for guidance :)
Obviously no ???
For anyone who might need it. Part 3 is pretty much the end anyway you just put ~1mm thick bead of RTV silicone on the timing cover and you can put a very thin layer on the engine side to ensure theres a full mating coverage. The key to ensuring a proper seal is cleaning old silicone off then degreasing all mating faces.
Hi Sandy I’m having a nightmare with these timing mark. You said your timing marks were 180 degs out on the crank at the beginning. But they must have been right 180 deg out as after you put the new chain back on with the cam tool in place you were on the exhaust stroke.
Can you please clarify where tdc mark should be with the cam tool in? Marks together or 180 deg out.
Many thanks I’m having a nightmare with this.
If I put all the tooling in (crank and cam) and install the chain every time the cam position is 180 degrees out the with the mark together (That is why I think the dots/marks must be opposite when you install the cam tool) maybe!
Just go with the timing tools if they correctly in/engaged then the timing must be right don’t worry about dots on crank maybe it’s just an anomaly. Time up and turn crank by hand to make sure nothing hits before u crank it up
@@sandyande thanks for the reply. I found out today Peugeot use a wasted ignition system where it fires on exhaust and compression so think I’m good.
It all worked out. For any one doing this job with the tools fitted your be on TDC no.1 exhaust stroke not compression.
Thanks for doing this video Sandy.
Where is part 4
Did you Finnish this ok?
Didn't look normal when chain was going slack
Was there some interference or something?
Watched your videos so many times… only one question. .. why did you change the oil pump chain and the oil pump tensioner?
Didn't really need too but just done it for my son 🙂
@@sandyande that’s great. You’re a star for replying. Thanks.
Hi, great video, Thanks. I'm in the same process right now, but I have issue ! The tool to maintain the 2 camshat in position broke inside when trying to remove pulley, even when trying to block camshaft pulley with big tool like yours ... Pulley is free wheel so blocking it will not prevent camshaft to rotate a little bit, and the 2 small tools to maintain it will brake again I guess. Any solution ?
ruclips.net/video/4FuoPkTxQGM/видео.html
Try this link to a Dave sterl video about cam shaft holding tools
Gr8 wee vid sandy
Cheers Dave were moving forward, Sandy
hey do you fit them for pepole as mine needs done and where are you located
wheres part 4 , did it rattle still
Hi it did rattle on initial start up for 5 seconds then it was good after that cheers sandy
Hi just watched the video about to buy one of these with timing chain rattle but currently doesn't run, i heard you saying it must have a big clearance do you think this would be ok or is there still chance for a valve damage>?
Great video by the way, thank you very much!
There is still a chance of valve damage, try doing a compression test! Cheers sandy
@@sandyande Thank you very much, i bought the car turns out still runs fine just in limp mode and found another video of yours points out the issue how jumped chain can cause the limp mode, i will now change the chain thanks to your kindness in sharing your knowledge. Keep this up and thank you.
Pull the plugs and inspect. Likely to see some plug damage if you've hit a valve. Especially if its happened at speed.
Firstly why didn’t you time it up to start with when you have to correct timing kit seems a bit backwards to me. But the you rattle on about flex in the chain it’s not flex it’s because there is no oil in the timing chain tensioner which hydraulically keeps tension on the tinning chain guide. The tensioner won’t work until its got oil in it as that is how tension is held onto the timing chain guide it’s not flex it’s not oil pressure in the tensioner 😝😜🙈
Hi Sandy thanks for the video very helpful.
Was there a part 4 or did you not film another part.
Thanks John
Hi John I never got round to filming it, car is now on the road so will try and do recap if I can remember the salient points! Cheers sandy
Hey thanks a lot with helped my car had a hardly start is polo vivo model 2015 after machinic removed top head
@@sandyande did you get round to doing that? Can’t find the video. Was looking to DIY the job but as the first 3 videos were great but I’d be stuck up till this part of the videos. Hope you can help
@@rashelahmed2081 what's the problem?
@@sandyande just wondering what’s left to do or is that the job finished in terms of the replacement? Is it just left to fit everything back up in reverse? If so is it all done the same way except that we have to silicone the timing chain cover and the sump
Nice Sandy, I am enjoying this. I am guessing with the tensioner under oil pressure the chain "jump" is likely much less pronounce...I am sure your well aware of that. Think also with only 3 cylinders the valve spring compression and subsequent decompression @ over center on the cam lobes appears much more pronounced.....just a thought, I don't know for certain. Cheers Pal.
Yes think your right my friend, once I get oil in it should sort that excess movement, merry Christmas, Sandy
All the best Sandy...forgot to thumbs up...since rectified.
Did you see my video I added to the comments in part 1 , my fabia with the same engine rattles most start ups and the garage where it's under warrenty say it's normal and ok .
I'm sure there fobbing me off until my guarantee has run out
I have the same engine and mine is the same. Not sure if it's the chain or the shims.
The bolt for camshaft need to change with new bolt
Nicely explained brilliant thanks
Cheers Jonathan, Sandy
Salut, la cati km si dupa cati ani trebuie inlocuita distributia?
What you did wrong mate was you didnt get the crank timing tool into the hole in the flywheel. When they jump the cams need retiming, leave the crank at tdc. You were very lucky not to bend a valve turning the crank 180!!!!
good video ...hopefully it will convince my son not to buy one of these crapwagens
I may have to do this as I have a leak on the timing chain cover :-(
Great left us without part 4 ?
But least u got 1, 2 & 3!!!🤣🤣🤣
No part 4?
Sandy....where is part 4 please!
How do you lock the Crankshaft?
Use these timing tools vw polo Best Q Engine Timing Locking Pin Tool Set For Lupo Polo Skoda Fabia Seat Ibiza www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072JXJTF7/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_3HY7EbXM7SAJY
ruclips.net/video/Sk4aNvPukbE/видео.html
Great stuff
Cheers sandy
Por favor alguém pode esplicarme em português quais são os pontos de comando dos dois carretos da cúpula?
❤
genial!!!!😀
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