The vehicle was pretty impressive, but even more impressive was the detailed analysis of all the suggestions prior viewers made, and weeding out the impractical and leaving the more plausible ones! Great job!
The blimp and generator look like the start of a whole new creation. The way technology is advancing so quick, especially for batteries and electric motors, upgrades are just around the corner.
Oh yeah? What batteries are those ? Pixie dust batteries? Chemical batteries don’t store electrons. They make them. That’s why they suck. There is no free lunch.
@@joeshumo9457 OMG your post is such horseshit babble and factless. E-VTOL is a new class of vehicle that is coming out THIS YEAR! electric 100- 250 miles range VTOL EV aircraft. you're opinion of battery tech is like 20 years behind the times. like the tesla S plaid they just tested in northern Michigan with a 752 mile range. By the end of THIS decade you wont even be able to buy a new petrol based vehicle, and for the record, EV's already surpass Diesel sales and for a dam good reason. stop holding us back with misinformation and ignorance. EV is superior in EVERY way now. aircraft are next. they already have 100% EV freight trains, and ocean liners. I can't wait for the "MANNED" drone races coming. they already built one.
Blimps rapidly get better with size as the surface area drag (and envelope mass) increases as square function, whereas their lift increases as a cubic function - so larger always makes more sense (Hence why the commercially successful Zeppelins were so big, and still had relatively high cruising speeds of 70mph ) Of course there are so many management problems to contend with though too - some kind of mooring mast to ensure it faced the wind would probably be needed - and as soon as they get to any size, they need a ballonet (an internal balloon of air, that is pressured by a fan to maintain shape of the whole envelope) otherwise changes in temperature and altitude could cause the envelope to burst, ^oo^
On the ideas of using wings or a blimp to gain flight time: - Instead of a pair of wings to help generate lift, make a carbon fiber outer shell for the fuselage; one fabricated in a lifting body design. It may not give much forward lift considering it's surface area, but if designed correctly, it could certainly help with lowering the rate at which the aircraft looses altitude when flown at higher altitudes and faster speeds. - Using a blimp is a solid idea, if the bag were designed differently. Rather than a single, average blimp, flatten it out somewhat into an inflatable wing. A lifting body delta wing, to be exact.
A blimp doesn't necessarily have to completely neutralize the weight of the vehicle, any reduction in the lift required to take it off the ground would increase the range. A smaller blimp would still increase the range to some extent.
@@burgerbobbelcher I agree; and a blimp that is in a flying wing/lifting body configuration would be even more beneficial to increasing flight times than a conventional "blimp" design.
Neat breakdown. The coaxial prop thing is a big ticket item with even small unmanned drones - you can dial the pitch of the lower prop way, way up and get much better efficiency, and responsiveness. Without the added pitch, the upstream prop winds up doing most of the work, and the downstream prop is actually choking the total efflux. The blimp would be a neat addition if it could be parked - if you had a long flight, you could use the blimp to carry you for hours, basically idling the props to stay level and on course, but not really providing much, if any, lift. Get close to your destination and anchor it, or take on ballast (pie in the sky here... maybe a hose to take on water?) then disengage the multirotor and fly the short remaining distance to your destination. Re-docking would be problematic, but the USS Macon, and Akron were marvels of airborne aircraft carriers.
Look up Egan Airship's Plimp. It's basically the idea of combining ducted fans with a blimp. I think it can be further optimized by using a gas envelope that is shaped like a wing, making it a hybrid airship.
The generator can be coupled with a battery to buffer power needs and keep a constant rpm. Second the fuel will burn lightening the weight. Third the max weight is possibly limited to battery time and not lift/rotor capacity.
@@jdcampolargo I don't know if the cycle life of Lithium Sulfur is long enough yet for a daily commuting vehicle, I'd have to research it. There are however several companies selling them in various sizes. They are currently sometimes used on larger UAVs as well, due to a better energy density and reasonable power level.
@@Max-kn9yi I figure the Jetson1 uses lithium polymer batteries, but I have never looked it up. I have the world's only fully ion propelled unmanned vehicles with onboard power on my channel. They usually use 37 to 110mAh cells in pairs. They are very lightweight.
I think the blimp idea is interesting but not in the same direction this seems to be heading. Perhaps a more casual blimp with even longer flight time would be a second model. I could easily see one decked out with ducted fans, since the blimps seem to be confined with more linear flight the fans could be angled appropriately
That was a fun video to watch. Thanks. Seems the easiest of all suggestions here and in video are 1. enhanced aero, weight reduction 2. update per video prop technology 3. keep applying latest in battery technology. This concept, its size, speed, maneuverability, has alot of uses in the commercial world. EMT, ranching, farming, fire fighting, etc. Especially in rugged terrain, and especially since it is so transportable.
I'm speaking outside my expertise, but presuming the machine's support struts are hollow, helium sealed inside the tubes could shave off a couple pounds. Every little bit helps.
This was a very nice analysis. Really interesting. The genset option with different blades is not only better, it's required in order to make Jetson even worth thinking about. At least until battery capacity greatly increases. Before I would be seen flying around with that blimp attached I would consider a combination of leg amputation along with donating a kidney and some blood as a mechanism for payload reduction 😄
Helium lifts only 2lbs per cubic meter. Would take 100 meters for a200 lb pilot, plus for weight of machine and blimp, about 250 cu meters, very big. Liquid Piston has the motor for this, starting production now, Model # XTS-210, 210cc, 19kgs, 20kW. It's on youtube.
Combining the blimp with the rotary engine plus the special bades could allow for different uses of the VTOL System. The blimp Surface could be covered with PV modules and an air bag under the rotary engine would make use of the configuration blimp plus hybrid generator. The weight of the combustion engine would be at the bottom all times, while the air resistance of the blimp would be on top during an engine failure at all times. In this configuration the aircraft would aproach the ground in a stable configuration and make sure to have the contact with the ground exactly with the air bag. A great safety feature. I love your inventive approach Klaus from Germany
Okay, hear me out. What if we: 1. Attach small wings to improve range and flexibility. 2. Attach a small thermal blimp. 3. Replace batteries with ICE-electric transmission: a) the powertrain will generate electricity for motors b) hot exhaust gases will be used for heating up air for the blimp
Enclosing and streamlining the cockpit would reduce drag significantly, which could either extend flight time or increase the potential distance travelled for the same output.
@@joeshumo9457 That depends what it's made out of. Carbon-fibre composites can be both very strong and very lightweight. Worth considering too, that the speed records for bicycles are held by fully-enclosed machines - the reduction in drag more than offsets the increased weight.
Some great comments & suggestions here. I would have: 1) Canopy and/or other frame accessories of solar cells & hot air enclosures 2) Mix of light wt batteries & super capacitors providing 5-10 min flying time before max allowed discharge 3) Small IC engine to charge capacitors & battery while the heat exhaust creates hot air balloon effect 4) Rotor mods as specified Conclusion) Combining all the above would extend the flying time to make it more practical as an alternate mode of transportation. However, the unprotected power and data coms grid as well as the FAAs negligence to properly coordinate safe uncontrolled airspace near heavy populated areas make it too dangerous except in rural areas.
@@jdcampolargo There are now newer technology solar panels that are light weight as well as energy storage cells using heat, light, temperature difference, etc that could be utilized for higher efficiency.
Recent advances in propellors, electric motors and batteries seem to indicate that Jetson 1 might be able to get significantly more flight time if all its systems were optimized. Also, the craft might benefit from changing its shape to more of a partial lifting body, so it might enjoy at least some lift while traveling forward.
Hydrogen is LOW % of Dangerous, the Spark has to be rigth next to the hole were the gas is scaping, and a very well desing could avoid any circunstance
Such an exciting time! Electric motors will get smaller with greater output and efficiency . Batteries will get lighter with more energy density. Very nice information from your video!
A full blimp might not be necessary. The area in the middle above the driver's head looks like a natural fit for an inflatable portion. This could allow for some of the weight or work to be taken from the motors and propellers without sacrificing the aircraft's main features.
They are normal planes meaning the pilot is responsible for keeping them in the air - angle of attack, min/max speed, all those things - while this flies like a drone you only tell them where you want to go.
I think this is just a case of an invention that is ahead of its time. Where as is it is more a novelty and a toy, when battery capacity increases in the not so distant future and it will, then the range and viability of this air frame will become more viable and interesting to a wider customer base.
Rotors may need to be re positioned once the new design is completed. As I would redesign the body by introducing three elongated slim blimps within the body and tail of the Jetson. By making it carry Hidden Helium you eleviate many dilemas.You automatically stretch its range and its payload capacity by making it lighter . Larger rotors and better blades , and adding Fluidics technologyto the design as well. A fuidics power plant at the rear powered by a vaporized fuel engine coupled with an electric generators would make this a dream . Vaporizing the fuel would also make a clean super efficient burn
IVE BEEN FOLLOWING YOUR FLIGHTS SINCE YOUR FIRST ONES OVER IN ITALY I THINK TESTING IN A FIELD AREA........GLAD YOU STUCK WITH THE IDEA AND TESTING OF THE FIRST UNITS .......YES THE BATTERY IS THE KEY.........BE PATIENT .......JUST LIKE YOUR BOLD AND PERSISTENT NATURE........PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON NEWER AND LIGHTER AND THE BIG THING......."MORE BATTERY CAPACITY ".........IM THINKING THE SKY REALLY WILL LOOK LIKE THE.............JETSONS SHOW I WATCHED AS A KID! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! .
Interesting..... I have been thinking about a wing shaped blimp which could provide partial lift and rest could be provide by the forward movement by the motors.. is there anything like that existing?
Body: Better floating body design - the open cabin design is creating too much drag and you want as much of a drop like structure to generate in flight lift. Better control by adding a rear top spoiler in order to stabilize the floating body in horizontal flight. Power - tilted rotors will ensure a smooth translation from hover to horizontal flight. Folding props at bottom - this will ensure the capability to switch off a set of engines and recover some of the turbulence by letting them free spin recovering some of the energy lost at takeoff during flight. Also scaling to add more battery weight will help with the range.
@@neonpowar3766 I understand your point, thanks for commenting. Open top cars have close aerodynamics to hard top ones. Using a helmet is still confined, your body will need a flight costume in order to not loose heat. Of course in a 40 min flight at low altitude that may not be an issue but in a 2 hours flight, well... that's another thing. While most better performing drones have a full aerodynamic body, all the bars on this have a single function. Translate all the surfaces in active surfaces and you have an overall better performance. Look at formula 1 cars in this season and you will understand the role of a cockpit in the aerodynamics at general.
It doesn't need any of that unless you're trying to set some sort of silly record. Only in the upper 25% of its flight envelope will aerodynamics come into play, and at that point you're already asking a lot from the battery and motor...which means your most efficient power settings will be at a speed where drag is negligible. It only has a top speed of 60mph or so. What that means is if you're looking for endurance and getting beyond that 20min mark, you won't be flying at a speed where drag is going to hinder your efforts...and whatever drag you do encounter is only going to reduce your range, not your endurance. There's a reason why aerodynamics aren't really high on the list for most helicopter designs.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Sorry to come back to this two months after the fact but you are completely missing something. Reducing drag reduces the power needed to push an object through air or liquid. Thus the idea is actually a great one with one asterisk. Weight. All of that aerodynamic body paneling adds weight. The weight counteracts, and even potentially overcomes if too heavy, the gains from making the body more aerodynamic. Aerodynamic efficiency doesn't just improve speed. It also improves range which is why almost every EV car ever made has a CoD below .3 whereas most ICE cars have a CoD above .3. ICE cars aren't emphasized for aerodynamic efficiency because it isn't relevant enough to the consumers when most ICE cars have a range of 300-400 miles. Something that was found to be the limits of how far a majority of people are willing to go on a car trip before they have to get out of the car and move around way back in the 90s. Electric cars are trying to reach that same range figure to remove the fear of a lack of range from the consumer in the US market. To do that EVs are being designed using every trick in the book known to squeak out as much range as possible. This includes maximizing aerodynamic efficiency. Thus adding an aerodynamic shell will actually do a number to increase the range/endurance of the Jetson ONE so long as it is done with extremely lightweight materials. Currently it might only add an extra ~20% of range at best given what the Mythbusters found when giving a bike a more aerodynamic shell. That is roughly a 4 minute increase from 20 minutes. That doesn't sound like a lot but that percentage increase gets more and more significant the more range you are able to eek out of any given design. 30 minutes becomes 36 minutes all things being equal. 60 becomes 72 all things being equal. On and on. Add tilting ducted fans optimized for Jetson ONE with a very lightweight aerodynamic shell and the range/endurance can go from 20 minutes currently to potentially somewhere in the 25-30 minutes range. The weight would likely increase to be around 100kgs vs the ~88kg that it currently is but if the benefit is anywhere above a 10% increase in range then I would happily make that tradeoff. The second relevant question would then be how much do those changes increase the per unit price to buy? All of this would likely push the cost up to, if not beyond, 150k. That is just my estimate though.
@@rainsilent What you seemed to miss is that aerodynamics won't come into play for range since your best cruise speed is going to be below the speed in which a low drag airframe would be beneficial in that aspect. At slow speeds, a brick has roughly the same air resistance as an ideal laminar flow body of the same size and weight, so the aerodynamic benefits would be meaningless. At higher speeds, aerodynamics will affect range, as drag is a cubic function of speed, and a 200mph Jetson 1 would certainly benefit from every aerodynamic advantage possible....but it'll never fly at those speeds. It's like saying a farmer will see efficiency gains from having enclosed tires and an aerodynamic shell on his tractor to make it streamlined. Do you think a helicopter in hover is going to hover longer if it had an aerodynamic body? It wouldn't make a bit of difference, as there's no air to resist. At some point in its slow speed regime, aerodynamics stop playing an important role in the range of any vehicle. If aerodynamic panels on a Jetson added zero weight, sure, you're likely to see an increase in range, a very negligible increase in range though, perhaps a percent at most due to how slow it flies. The problem is, weight is a far more important factor in a quad rotor like this, as it's using thrust as its sole source of lift, so for every extra pound you add, you're also taxing the battery reserve. The added weight of those panels and associated fasteners and tabs welded to the tubing and all of the other associated hardware will likely be on the order of 15-20lbs (this is based on a similar surface area of panels that I added to a race vehicle, weighed before and after the mods). 15-20lbs is nearly 10% of the Jetson 1's weight, and that makes a rather substantial change in performance. So that percent or so of theoretical range suddenly got negated by the additional weight, to the point where it will now likely have less range. Add more stuff like tilt rotors to the mix, and suddenly it's a completely different aircraft with a different flight regime and purpose. With the added weight and complexity, simply replacing fixed rotors with tilting rotors is going to drop your endurance considerably, and that's going to negatively affect the purpose of what most people would use the Jetson for. It's certainly not a feasible transport vehicle, it's a fly in circles with no point other than fun vehicle, and endurance is the name of the game there. Make it fly faster and further with tiltrotors and panels, not only have you lost the original purpose of it, you've also lost the target customer because it's no longer a slow speed craft with longer endurance that anyone can fly, and the average person will be too heavy to fly it without going over max takeoff weight. Just short, fast straight line trips from A to B in a craft so small and payload limited that you can't even pack a PB&J in. Sounds so useful and fun :/ At this point, we're splitting hairs trying to get every additional second of flight time and every inch of additional range from electric craft, but this generation of experimental craft are nearing the max theoretical performance possible with current battery tech. We're not really going to see much improvement beyond this until we get a battery chemistry capable of a paradigm shift.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Actually you are wrong. Yes, drag increases exponentially with speed but that doesn't instantly make most of the speed range of the Jetson ONE as irrelevant because it is traveling too slowly for it to matter. Even a 30mph cruising speed will provide a useful boost to range with improved aerodynamics. Sure, at speeds around 15mph and slower aerodynamic efficiency doesn't matter but the Jetson ONE very likely has a cruise speed of at least 30mph. Thus the cruise speed is very likely high enough that aerodynamic efficiency will have a factor. I am saying this based upon studies from NASA studying aerodynamics and its relevance for cars at city speeds, a la 30-45mph. As for those panels you applied I want to ask, what was the material and the size of the vehicle? Jetson ONE has an aluminum frame and carbon fiber nearly everything else. Given that we are talking outer paneling if they kept to their tendencies the outer panels would also be carbon fiber sans something clear to see through for windows. The carbon fiber material would likely add up to a total of less than 5 pounds with 5 pounds being a very conservative high limit. I've handled large chunks of carbon fiber for aircraft and cars. They are extremely light. You are way overestimating the weight increase because you are judging by using material that Jetson wouldn't use based upon their current materials used and what you used the materials you used on. Your personal example is not applicable in this scenario.
Awesome video! I was wondering about the generator idea and this perfectly explains the feasibility of such a configuration. I wonder why doesn’t Jetson (and other evtol companies) simply design a hybrid version that is designed to do exactly this more effectively and without modification. This would make these vehicles make much more sense. The generator would be loud, but you could just turn it on when you need the extra range.
The 75kg limit is a concern. It also looks like it would be challenging to get in and out of this thing. I just googled it, and the website said it costs $92K and can travel 60 miles. To me, that is a pretty good commute range. I'd say price, weight limit, and ease of use are the bigger challenges.
A blimp modification defeats the compactness of the Jetson, operation in anything but calm air will lower the advantage gained with the gas envelopes drag. Helium will inevitably leak, topping off will be a constant maintenance and cost issue. The motors would have to articulate to provide forward or reverse thrust, all things considered, a blimp is a bad idea unless it is being offset by the revenue generated by advertising space leased on the blimp. Part 103 excludes utilizing an ultralight aircraft being used for commercial purposes, advertising is obviously commercial.
@@airmobe4309 Sorry, blimps are too subject to wind for my liking. The balloon shaped envelope in the Blimp Airmobe proposal will be very slow, the only cross-country flights made will be downwind.
Consider the inflatable wing of SolarShip. It houses solar panels on top and generates lift with very little forward motion, as well, the bouyancy of the bladder. SolarShip is used in extremely remote operations where there is no fuel source for carrying cargo. Also, consider the very high power density of Koenigsegg combined radial AND axial flux wound motors and generators. There is always a tradeoff between functionality and space/weight. Combing the above suggestions , as detachable modules, with the optimized prop design, you should be able to make the range unlimited and versatile for specific applications. Different wing shapes could be available to provide for more lifting capacity, speed, or range, as needed. Love your work and wish you the best.
I spent several hours looking into the personal blimp idea. I also found the advertising blimps. I forget the size, make and model now, but a blimp twice the size of the one you chose, plus two paraglider motors mounted to a pivoting axle, should work pretty well. I dropped the idea becasue the blimp was bigger than I had hoped.
The addition of small wings, maybe 4 m sq, would provide significant lift without affecting maneuverability. They could be optimized for cruise speed to extend the flight range.
Right at the very beginning of the jetson programme I was wondering why they don't fit a generator to make it a hybrid which can self charge and refuel in minutes practically anywhere!
I think a blimp would, indeed, slow the craft down, a lot. However, with the use of a gas generator to drive a pair of vector (tiltable) electric turbines, at front and rear, this would be an amazing aircraft for slow to medium speed flight, with much longer flight duration. This would be a great flightseeing craft. Tilting the turbines to the vertical position would enable hovering, and vertical launch/landing, whilst rotating the turbines to the horizontal position would enable horizontal flight. The ducted turbines would provide enhanced safety for both crew, and blimp. :)
A large reduction in drag could be acheived by use of a tear-drop shaped carbon/fiberglass fuselage with canopy. Please do an analysis of that concept. I am quite sure that would provide a big increase in air time using the same battery.This is the difference between a hang glider and a sailplane. Add the coaxial rotor change and make it even better.
This is not strictly an engineering problem. That is nerdy. Using a blimp tnis way, begs the question: Why use a quadcopter at all--just use a larger blimp, with some fans to steer, and skip the great hurry to arrive somewhere. The rest of this advsrtising is targeted to enlist suggestions that get narrowed into things that are ultimately answered in a way that captures the attention of those looking for machinized gratification rather than any sort of functional utility. One way to make a hundred thousand dollars.
An aerodynamic body would reduce the drag of forward movement making faster flying or longer flying. Also you can lift the rear rotors out of the turbulence created buy the front.
I believe the blimp option or combination of these options, rotor, rotary diesel motor and blimp could add payload, flight time and safety. Yes, understood is the fact the nimble quasi war plane speedy flight maneuverability might be diminished, but some of us would be more interested in a longer flight, with more payload and ranges of flight capabilities. You could always offer several models, the nimble blimp less model for those looking for that type of flight and the blimp model for reasons already explained. Keep us posted
Placing ducts or partial ducting around prop blades with proper clearance and axial placement was studied and shown to add thrust force to nonducted propellers in the early days of aviation. Can’t cite the source but do remember seeing things on it (early Italian aircraft I think?) As I notice you are always shown to be in constant, near ground level flight, or at “ground effect” height, have you considered placing a ducted radial fan “squirrel cage fan” at you center of lift? (65 yr flight engineer) Keep up your good work! Love it!
Ducted fan does indeed increase the thrust. The nacelle or the duct in forward flight becomes a problem. Its like a drum that is being pushed through the air. So the drag increases considerably. That is why it was dropped from Jetson one
The small motor, smaller upper blades, larger lower blades prop setup seems ideal. The blimp creates drag, adds expense and, most importantly, complexity and labor to the whole thing. It is quite shocking how well the thing works. Very surprised to hear how shrouded rotors affects air movement so drastically in the negative. Is there any hope in a larger two rotor system, either side by side or front and rear? What about the addition of a gyro copter blade above the pilot to give lift assistance in forward travel? Very interesting stuff!
Buoyancy strategies (blimps) only make sense if you go BIG. So I would say that "compact" and "buoyancy" are mutually exclusive. However, a buoyant body that provides some degree of aerodynamic lift (as opposed to buoyancy only) is worth exploring, though I don't see any way to make it compact.
I am thinking the rotary genset plus the rotor change is the best option. I wonder if the rotor change would add enough extra lift to allow for a larger fuel tank for the motor, thereby extending the range, or time in flight, if only by 5 minutes or so.
The helium blimp at first sounds like a good alternative, but the trade off, in my humble opinion, seem like you would lose maneuverability and speed. I think is why you would want this type of vehicle in the first place.
The blimp idea could also be a charging station for the Jetson and have its own propulsion system tied to the Jetson control system. It would just need rigid structure to dock and probably some magnetic connectors for charging and control input. Could couple that with GPS equipment so it keeps positioning while you're not docked
I think the diesel genset with the propeller mod is the best option to stay within the original craft idea. But I would consider adding a small battery, for emergency landing in the event of engine failure.
How about a relatively high aspect ratio wing kept at the optimal angle for extending range while cruising but which folds upwards to 90 degrees or so when more dynamic flight control is desired? Or take a similar concept with a lower aspect ratio but that is helium filled and a low-wing design with an internal folding mechanism, this could provide perhaps a minor reduction in power requirements during take-off as well as providing enhanced safety in the event of a low-altitude stall as it could cushion the impact.
My thought is replacing the bars holding the propellers with tiltwings. There will be two pairs, one in front and one in the back. The tiltwings will be face up during takeoff and landing. As the jetson begins its flight, the wings will tilt forward and will function like the wings of a regular airplane.
I like your presentations. They are full of detail and diagrams and have the supporting fact base for your conclusions. As to the blimp size question... You showed a smaller one and detailed the gain in flight time VS the loss of fun factor in maneuverability Which is pertinent of course. My thoughts are this: We have to decide which flight mode is desired, time or performance. Performance dictates that the craft must fly as designed. For increased time a blimp of sufficient size to cancel out 95% of the payload ( craft and operator + any desired cargo) might be the answer. Since the majority of the energy used is to overcome the gravity we need to remove most of that from the equation for long distance flight. The idea does change the nature of the craft completely though and you might just as well design electric control motors for a custom single person blimp instead. In the long run Higher density power storage will likely end up being the answer. Thanks for all the great work you put into making these thoughtful videos!
I hope this thing has a storage spot on board for some spare props because if you don't land this thing on solid flat ground it looks like it'll rock to the side and shatter a prop
Variables that I have been curious about is the weight of the airframe. What materials do they use for the Jetson? Would using carbon fiber or titanium components provide more flight time without sacrificing strength? If using those components frees up weight, you could possibly utilize a rotary engine/hybrid battery system. Also adding a flexible solar panel to the roof to help extend range as well as some sort of acrylic windshield that could provide better aerodynamics.
The whole thing with motors and battery is just over 90 kg. I have calculated that the battery itself would be over 40 kg. The four motors with props will be at least 20 kg. Then there are essential flight controls, electronics, wire harness etc. There is not much to save in the airframe
that's what happened in the late 60's when they tried it with full sized helicopter engine pods off huey's. 4 pods, 8 engines total. the wind pushed the blades and balloon together...... but who knows maybe someone can make it work better.
May sound crazy but you can transmit electricity through a laser or maser beam. Power stations could be set up for this as long as they do not fry the pilot.
In my mind this is the way to make electric flight possible. A blimp to counter the battery weight. But I would design the craft with 3 tilting rotors, 1 large rotor at the back with 2 in front.
Could you consider a thin film solar generator system or perhaps a compact wind (ram air turbine) generator to charge the battery while in forward flight. It could be designed to have limited drag yet still be able to charge the battery for extended time and range.
The blimp idea is a non starter at so many levels. A pity he dismissed adding wings to provide lift during horizontal flight. No problem with manoeuvrability especially if wing control surface movement is linked to flight controller inputs. Is would add weight, complexity and size however. It depends on how far you want to fly and for how long- which is what this piece is about. Co-axial rotors are less efficient than separate individual rotors, operating in smooth air, so if endurance is the priority that is the way to go.
Ehhh kinda... the coaxial rotor is something I investigated personally a few years ago. The configuration of two props, with altered pitch, is a good solution to packaging - a coplanar octocopter isn't as efficient as simply going to larger props on a quad, or even tri-rotor, and the coaxial propeller configuration gives immediate single-engine-out failover - the other coaxial motor just throttles up. (Although if the failure was mechanical, the other motor of the pair may very well have eaten a chunk of propeller and itself be failing by then...) But in essence, partial overlap of rotors kind of sucks for efficiency, and vibration, but a full coaxial arrangement, optimized with the differential pitch and diameter mentioned, is very favorable compared to longer arms, larger motors, and larger props on a mass/thrust/power efficiency basis. You're pretty on point with the wing, though the angle of attack would have to be managed - since the rotors don't tilt without tilting the whole airframe, you'd need an all-moving surface sort of configuration to keep the wings level (give or take desired AOA) as the vehicle tilted forward for straight and level flight. YMMV
What if the vehicle had remote or autonomous modes and be dedicated for use as search and/or rescue? In it's search function, it would need extended range, but could carry additional batteries or a generator & fuel but not a pilot. If it needs extra range in rescue mode, it could bring two batteries and leave one behind in exchange for a passenger. In both cases the cockpit can be far more streamlined, as the occupant is not required to control the vehicle.
Let's go back and move blimps forward. Start with a blimp then build your engine, rotters, wings and so on around it. This is so workable and cheap to do.
Seems to me that a hybrid design would also make sense. While it would increase weight, why not a smaller, lighter engine pack + the battery. How would this affect flight time?
Unrelated to Jetopter: It seems to me the blimp option is largely constrained by shape... it would be interesting to see what shapes could be achieved that might affect drag coefficient and general performance.
I believe the genset motor is an excellent idea combined with the new rotor design. The blimp design would be great for advertisers or those who don't care about the loss of maneuverability to increase flight-time only! Not for individual thrill seekers. And I also believe that in the not so distant future, battery power will increase drastically as well as solar power which could also be combined with an electric battery powered vehicle to increase flight time.
I think blimps devalue the recreational value of the Jetson , however, by using a larger blimp you might increase the advertising interest to smaller companies. This entrepreneurial venture has a "fun" future ahead of it.
ELECTRIC AVIATION CHANNEL-what about the parawing like the ones used with power paragliding? That would definitely be cool to run the numbers and see what they are.
How about adding a much larger lift fan under the body of the vehicle (sort of like the blade on a riding lawnmower). Being larger could it provide a majority (say 80%) of the required lift for less power, and then the 4 outboard props would only be responsible for providing the remaining 20%, and directional control?
The Genset option seems overly expensive... Those generators are not cheap, the added complexity inherently makes the vehicle less safe, and lowering the available payload is not a good tradeoff. I'm not a "save the world with batteries" person, just strictly looking from a practical perspective. Fuel powered motors have their place and will continue to have advantages for the foreseeable future. But in this vehicle, It does seem that high output batteries are the way to go. (Instant response, simple mechanics, minimal systems.) The blade optimization seems like a great idea, and should be done. What about the 4680 Tesla battery? Would that improve battery life at all, or are those batteries to big to fit in the very limited space the Jetson ONE has?
Tesla 4680 arent more energy dense then their existing batteries. However at the larger pack scale, because they dont heat as much, you can do with a much lighter cooling system. In the Jetson1 there is no cooling system in the little pack they have, so it wouldnt make a difference.
Is not posible put a small charger on the vehicle like a "wind turbine + alternator and charge the battery during trip"? also solar cells could be maybe no ?
Interesting video. I would be interested to see another video examining how to extend RANGE for Jetson 1. The major thought I have is to keep the J1a configuration as it is, but adding a propellor for pure forward thrust, or small jet engine for pure forward thrust. These would increase top speed and hence range, for a given duration
A larger blimp could be useful. The limitation of weight is the main issue as I would not fit anyway. A blimp addon might also make it more interesting as a transport platform using remote control. Twenty minutes carrying 75 kg is quite good already for transport requirements, adding another 50 kg or much extended range would make it really interesting.
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The vehicle was pretty impressive, but even more impressive was the detailed analysis of all the suggestions prior viewers made, and weeding out the impractical and leaving the more plausible ones! Great job!
Congratulations! It's an excellent job
The blimp and generator look like the start of a whole new creation. The way technology is advancing so quick, especially for batteries and electric motors, upgrades are just around the corner.
it's actually really old, they tried it in the late 60's. it's technical term is "heavier then air-aircraft".
Oh yeah? What batteries are those ? Pixie dust batteries?
Chemical batteries don’t store electrons. They make them.
That’s why they suck.
There is no free lunch.
@@joeshumo9457 OMG your post is such horseshit babble and factless. E-VTOL is a new class of vehicle that is coming out THIS YEAR! electric 100- 250 miles range VTOL EV aircraft. you're opinion of battery tech is like 20 years behind the times. like the tesla S plaid they just tested in northern Michigan with a 752 mile range. By the end of THIS decade you wont even be able to buy a new petrol based vehicle, and for the record, EV's already surpass Diesel sales and for a dam good reason. stop holding us back with misinformation and ignorance. EV is superior in EVERY way now. aircraft are next. they already have 100% EV freight trains, and ocean liners. I can't wait for the "MANNED" drone races coming. they already built one.
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Can't wait till we can go to the battery museum 👉🤯👈 humasn are still so dumb thinking inside of thoer little boxes 🙄 😒 😑 🙃
Blimps rapidly get better with size as the surface area drag (and envelope mass) increases as square function, whereas their lift increases as a cubic function - so larger always makes more sense (Hence why the commercially successful Zeppelins were so big, and still had relatively high cruising speeds of 70mph ) Of course there are so many management problems to contend with though too - some kind of mooring mast to ensure it faced the wind would probably be needed - and as soon as they get to any size, they need a ballonet (an internal balloon of air, that is pressured by a fan to maintain shape of the whole envelope) otherwise changes in temperature and altitude could cause the envelope to burst, ^oo^
And at some point you realise you're building a Zeppelin with a Jetson One ballast.
@@hurrdurrmurrgurr Ha, yes In terms of dimensions - though obviously not the same in mass - ^oo^
What about using rotors with 4 or more blades? Any improvement there?
Any way to incorporate a foldable/extendable autogyro rotor and have the lift rotors tilt to push forward at altitude?
@@GaelTharLear That's an interesting idea, ^oo^
On the ideas of using wings or a blimp to gain flight time:
- Instead of a pair of wings to help generate lift, make a carbon fiber outer shell for the fuselage; one fabricated in a lifting body design.
It may not give much forward lift considering it's surface area, but if designed correctly, it could certainly help with lowering the rate at which the aircraft looses altitude when flown at higher altitudes and faster speeds.
- Using a blimp is a solid idea, if the bag were designed differently.
Rather than a single, average blimp, flatten it out somewhat into an inflatable wing.
A lifting body delta wing, to be exact.
Or 4 bladed carbon fiber propelers,a bigger batery and free energy generator from TheCrazyChannelinEnglish to charge the batery.
A blimp doesn't necessarily have to completely neutralize the weight of the vehicle, any reduction in the lift required to take it off the ground would increase the range. A smaller blimp would still increase the range to some extent.
@@burgerbobbelcher I agree; and a blimp that is in a flying wing/lifting body configuration would be even more beneficial to increasing flight times than a conventional "blimp" design.
Neat breakdown. The coaxial prop thing is a big ticket item with even small unmanned drones - you can dial the pitch of the lower prop way, way up and get much better efficiency, and responsiveness. Without the added pitch, the upstream prop winds up doing most of the work, and the downstream prop is actually choking the total efflux.
The blimp would be a neat addition if it could be parked - if you had a long flight, you could use the blimp to carry you for hours, basically idling the props to stay level and on course, but not really providing much, if any, lift. Get close to your destination and anchor it, or take on ballast (pie in the sky here... maybe a hose to take on water?) then disengage the multirotor and fly the short remaining distance to your destination. Re-docking would be problematic, but the USS Macon, and Akron were marvels of airborne aircraft carriers.
Look up Egan Airship's Plimp. It's basically the idea of combining ducted fans with a blimp. I think it can be further optimized by using a gas envelope that is shaped like a wing, making it a hybrid airship.
The generator can be coupled with a battery to buffer power needs and keep a constant rpm. Second the fuel will burn lightening the weight. Third the max weight is possibly limited to battery time and not lift/rotor capacity.
And you could land and fill up gas at any gas station. Then you could go on long trips anywhere!
more energy dense fuel should help as well.
@@kakerake6018 Zip fuels? or nuclear?
Great engineering assessment! It might also help to use lithium sulfur batteries. They may be commercially available in a usable size range.
Haven't expected to see you here, Ethan!
could you please explain your reasoning?
@@jdcampolargo I don't know if the cycle life of Lithium Sulfur is long enough yet for a daily commuting vehicle, I'd have to research it. There are however several companies selling them in various sizes. They are currently sometimes used on larger UAVs as well, due to a better energy density and reasonable power level.
What kind of batteries does it use? I'm sure they're using the best
@@Max-kn9yi I figure the Jetson1 uses lithium polymer batteries, but I have never looked it up. I have the world's only fully ion propelled unmanned vehicles with onboard power on my channel. They usually use 37 to 110mAh cells in pairs. They are very lightweight.
I think the blimp idea is interesting but not in the same direction this seems to be heading. Perhaps a more casual blimp with even longer flight time would be a second model. I could easily see one decked out with ducted fans, since the blimps seem to be confined with more linear flight the fans could be angled appropriately
That was a fun video to watch. Thanks. Seems the easiest of all suggestions here and in video are
1. enhanced aero, weight reduction
2. update per video prop technology
3. keep applying latest in battery technology.
This concept, its size, speed, maneuverability, has alot of uses in the commercial world. EMT, ranching, farming, fire fighting, etc. Especially in rugged terrain, and especially since it is so transportable.
Thanks for the tips!
Thanks for your detailed and very thorough analysis of how to extend the Jetson's flight time. (subscribed)
I'm speaking outside my expertise, but presuming the machine's support struts are hollow, helium sealed inside the tubes could shave off a couple pounds. Every little bit helps.
This was a very nice analysis. Really interesting. The genset option with different blades is not only better, it's required in order to make Jetson even worth thinking about. At least until battery capacity greatly increases. Before I would be seen flying around with that blimp attached I would consider a combination of leg amputation along with donating a kidney and some blood as a mechanism for payload reduction 😄
Just go the total donation and revert to RC.
Helium lifts only 2lbs per cubic meter. Would take 100 meters for a200 lb pilot, plus for weight of machine and blimp, about 250 cu meters, very big. Liquid Piston has the motor for this, starting production now, Model # XTS-210, 210cc, 19kgs, 20kW. It's on youtube.
Combining the blimp with the rotary engine plus the special bades could allow for different uses of the VTOL System. The blimp Surface could be covered with PV modules and an air bag under the rotary engine would make use of the configuration blimp plus hybrid generator. The weight of the combustion engine would be at the bottom all times, while the air resistance of the blimp would be on top during an engine failure at all times. In this configuration the aircraft would aproach the ground in a stable configuration and make sure to have the contact with the ground exactly with the air bag. A great safety feature.
I love your inventive approach
Klaus from Germany
Okay, hear me out. What if we:
1. Attach small wings to improve range and flexibility.
2. Attach a small thermal blimp.
3. Replace batteries with ICE-electric transmission:
a) the powertrain will generate electricity for motors
b) hot exhaust gases will be used for heating up air for the blimp
Enclosing and streamlining the cockpit would reduce drag significantly, which could either extend flight time or increase the potential distance travelled for the same output.
Not with the added weight of said enclosure.
@@joeshumo9457 That depends what it's made out of. Carbon-fibre composites can be both very strong and very lightweight. Worth considering too, that the speed records for bicycles are held by fully-enclosed machines - the reduction in drag more than offsets the increased weight.
Use multiple blade propellers. Up to 5 blades per prop will require less power, and reduce noise, as well as increase range.
afaik biblades are the most efficient
@@oculicious Don't even numbered blades make more noise, because of harmonics? Odd numbered blades are better.
Some great comments & suggestions here. I would have: 1) Canopy and/or other frame accessories of solar cells & hot air enclosures 2) Mix of light wt batteries & super capacitors providing 5-10 min flying time before max allowed discharge 3) Small IC engine to charge capacitors & battery while the heat exhaust creates hot air balloon effect 4) Rotor mods as specified Conclusion) Combining all the above would extend the flying time to make it more practical as an alternate mode of transportation. However, the unprotected power and data coms grid as well as the FAAs negligence to properly coordinate safe uncontrolled airspace near heavy populated areas make it too dangerous except in rural areas.
Solar cell? Can you explain your reasoning?
@@jdcampolargo There are now newer technology solar panels that are light weight as well as energy storage cells using heat, light, temperature difference, etc that could be utilized for higher efficiency.
Toroidal props?
The blimp could utilise heat from the surrounding area to heat the gas to reduce density.
Recent advances in propellors, electric motors and batteries seem to indicate that Jetson 1 might be able to get significantly more flight time if all its systems were optimized. Also, the craft might benefit from changing its shape to more of a partial lifting body, so it might enjoy at least some lift while traveling forward.
Instead of helium you should generate your own hydrogen, i know it's more dangerous but it has greater lift and way cheaper
Hydrogen is LOW % of Dangerous, the Spark has to be rigth next to the hole were the gas is scaping, and a very well desing could avoid any circunstance
Its doesn't have a greater lift , but definitely cheeper
It does tho hydrogen has a lower lowest atomic weight @@magicbeetle2292
Such an exciting time! Electric motors will get smaller with greater output and efficiency . Batteries will get lighter with more energy density. Very nice information from your video!
Why?
Motors don't need to get much smaller, batteries do.
A full blimp might not be necessary. The area in the middle above the driver's head looks like a natural fit for an inflatable portion. This could allow for some of the weight or work to be taken from the motors and propellers without sacrificing the aircraft's main features.
If you have ever seen the movie airplane!, you could have an inflatable pilot!!!
@@henryjraymondiii961 that sounds counterintuitive and defeats the point of the vehicle.
@@andresmarrero8666 Yes, the money.
@@henryjraymondiii961 you have completely lost me.
@@andresmarrero8666 OK.
What’s wrong with the ultra lights from the past? Longer fly time and better safety?
This is cooler
They are normal planes meaning the pilot is responsible for keeping them in the air - angle of attack, min/max speed, all those things - while this flies like a drone you only tell them where you want to go.
It looks great but I would like to hear the sound it generates?
I think this is just a case of an invention that is ahead of its time. Where as is it is more a novelty and a toy, when battery capacity increases in the not so distant future and it will, then the range and viability of this air frame will become more viable and interesting to a wider customer base.
Glad you put my ”blimp” idea into perspective. I will try to send you, before the end of this year, my prototype drawing. Keep it going ✌
Sounds great!
send it also to me im curious
7:46 how did the balloon ride land?
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Why not attach the blimp design of the airlander 10 for further aerodynamyc lift?
Rotors may need to be re positioned once the new design is completed. As I would redesign the body by introducing three elongated slim blimps within the body and tail of the Jetson. By making it carry Hidden Helium you eleviate many dilemas.You automatically stretch its range and its payload capacity by making it lighter . Larger rotors and better blades , and adding Fluidics technologyto the design as well. A fuidics power plant at the rear powered by a vaporized fuel engine coupled with an electric generators would make this a dream . Vaporizing the fuel would also make a clean super efficient burn
Really interesting answer, could you explain a bit further if you have time? thanks
IVE BEEN FOLLOWING YOUR FLIGHTS SINCE YOUR FIRST ONES OVER IN ITALY I THINK TESTING IN A FIELD AREA........GLAD YOU STUCK WITH THE IDEA AND TESTING OF THE FIRST UNITS .......YES THE BATTERY IS THE KEY.........BE PATIENT .......JUST LIKE YOUR BOLD AND PERSISTENT NATURE........PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON NEWER AND LIGHTER AND THE BIG THING......."MORE BATTERY CAPACITY ".........IM THINKING THE SKY REALLY WILL LOOK LIKE THE.............JETSONS SHOW I WATCHED AS A KID! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
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Its not meant for flying at high altitudes or used for commuting. It will be only allowed in private rural areas
Interesting..... I have been thinking about a wing shaped blimp which could provide partial lift and rest could be provide by the forward movement by the motors.. is there anything like that existing?
There are. They are called Hybrid Airship or Hybrid Air vehicles. Part of the lift is provided by the buoyant force and part from aerodynamic lift.
see book..."The Deltoid Pumpkin Seed" a 1971 proven concept. or, look into "turtle airships" (that's me)
Body: Better floating body design - the open cabin design is creating too much drag and you want as much of a drop like structure to generate in flight lift. Better control by adding a rear top spoiler in order to stabilize the floating body in horizontal flight. Power - tilted rotors will ensure a smooth translation from hover to horizontal flight. Folding props at bottom - this will ensure the capability to switch off a set of engines and recover some of the turbulence by letting them free spin recovering some of the energy lost at takeoff during flight. Also scaling to add more battery weight will help with the range.
@@neonpowar3766 I understand your point, thanks for commenting. Open top cars have close aerodynamics to hard top ones. Using a helmet is still confined, your body will need a flight costume in order to not loose heat. Of course in a 40 min flight at low altitude that may not be an issue but in a 2 hours flight, well... that's another thing. While most better performing drones have a full aerodynamic body, all the bars on this have a single function. Translate all the surfaces in active surfaces and you have an overall better performance. Look at formula 1 cars in this season and you will understand the role of a cockpit in the aerodynamics at general.
It doesn't need any of that unless you're trying to set some sort of silly record. Only in the upper 25% of its flight envelope will aerodynamics come into play, and at that point you're already asking a lot from the battery and motor...which means your most efficient power settings will be at a speed where drag is negligible. It only has a top speed of 60mph or so. What that means is if you're looking for endurance and getting beyond that 20min mark, you won't be flying at a speed where drag is going to hinder your efforts...and whatever drag you do encounter is only going to reduce your range, not your endurance. There's a reason why aerodynamics aren't really high on the list for most helicopter designs.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Sorry to come back to this two months after the fact but you are completely missing something. Reducing drag reduces the power needed to push an object through air or liquid. Thus the idea is actually a great one with one asterisk. Weight. All of that aerodynamic body paneling adds weight. The weight counteracts, and even potentially overcomes if too heavy, the gains from making the body more aerodynamic. Aerodynamic efficiency doesn't just improve speed. It also improves range which is why almost every EV car ever made has a CoD below .3 whereas most ICE cars have a CoD above .3.
ICE cars aren't emphasized for aerodynamic efficiency because it isn't relevant enough to the consumers when most ICE cars have a range of 300-400 miles. Something that was found to be the limits of how far a majority of people are willing to go on a car trip before they have to get out of the car and move around way back in the 90s. Electric cars are trying to reach that same range figure to remove the fear of a lack of range from the consumer in the US market. To do that EVs are being designed using every trick in the book known to squeak out as much range as possible. This includes maximizing aerodynamic efficiency.
Thus adding an aerodynamic shell will actually do a number to increase the range/endurance of the Jetson ONE so long as it is done with extremely lightweight materials. Currently it might only add an extra ~20% of range at best given what the Mythbusters found when giving a bike a more aerodynamic shell. That is roughly a 4 minute increase from 20 minutes. That doesn't sound like a lot but that percentage increase gets more and more significant the more range you are able to eek out of any given design. 30 minutes becomes 36 minutes all things being equal. 60 becomes 72 all things being equal. On and on.
Add tilting ducted fans optimized for Jetson ONE with a very lightweight aerodynamic shell and the range/endurance can go from 20 minutes currently to potentially somewhere in the 25-30 minutes range. The weight would likely increase to be around 100kgs vs the ~88kg that it currently is but if the benefit is anywhere above a 10% increase in range then I would happily make that tradeoff. The second relevant question would then be how much do those changes increase the per unit price to buy? All of this would likely push the cost up to, if not beyond, 150k. That is just my estimate though.
@@rainsilent What you seemed to miss is that aerodynamics won't come into play for range since your best cruise speed is going to be below the speed in which a low drag airframe would be beneficial in that aspect. At slow speeds, a brick has roughly the same air resistance as an ideal laminar flow body of the same size and weight, so the aerodynamic benefits would be meaningless. At higher speeds, aerodynamics will affect range, as drag is a cubic function of speed, and a 200mph Jetson 1 would certainly benefit from every aerodynamic advantage possible....but it'll never fly at those speeds. It's like saying a farmer will see efficiency gains from having enclosed tires and an aerodynamic shell on his tractor to make it streamlined. Do you think a helicopter in hover is going to hover longer if it had an aerodynamic body? It wouldn't make a bit of difference, as there's no air to resist. At some point in its slow speed regime, aerodynamics stop playing an important role in the range of any vehicle. If aerodynamic panels on a Jetson added zero weight, sure, you're likely to see an increase in range, a very negligible increase in range though, perhaps a percent at most due to how slow it flies. The problem is, weight is a far more important factor in a quad rotor like this, as it's using thrust as its sole source of lift, so for every extra pound you add, you're also taxing the battery reserve. The added weight of those panels and associated fasteners and tabs welded to the tubing and all of the other associated hardware will likely be on the order of 15-20lbs (this is based on a similar surface area of panels that I added to a race vehicle, weighed before and after the mods). 15-20lbs is nearly 10% of the Jetson 1's weight, and that makes a rather substantial change in performance. So that percent or so of theoretical range suddenly got negated by the additional weight, to the point where it will now likely have less range. Add more stuff like tilt rotors to the mix, and suddenly it's a completely different aircraft with a different flight regime and purpose. With the added weight and complexity, simply replacing fixed rotors with tilting rotors is going to drop your endurance considerably, and that's going to negatively affect the purpose of what most people would use the Jetson for. It's certainly not a feasible transport vehicle, it's a fly in circles with no point other than fun vehicle, and endurance is the name of the game there. Make it fly faster and further with tiltrotors and panels, not only have you lost the original purpose of it, you've also lost the target customer because it's no longer a slow speed craft with longer endurance that anyone can fly, and the average person will be too heavy to fly it without going over max takeoff weight. Just short, fast straight line trips from A to B in a craft so small and payload limited that you can't even pack a PB&J in. Sounds so useful and fun :/
At this point, we're splitting hairs trying to get every additional second of flight time and every inch of additional range from electric craft, but this generation of experimental craft are nearing the max theoretical performance possible with current battery tech. We're not really going to see much improvement beyond this until we get a battery chemistry capable of a paradigm shift.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Actually you are wrong. Yes, drag increases exponentially with speed but that doesn't instantly make most of the speed range of the Jetson ONE as irrelevant because it is traveling too slowly for it to matter. Even a 30mph cruising speed will provide a useful boost to range with improved aerodynamics. Sure, at speeds around 15mph and slower aerodynamic efficiency doesn't matter but the Jetson ONE very likely has a cruise speed of at least 30mph. Thus the cruise speed is very likely high enough that aerodynamic efficiency will have a factor. I am saying this based upon studies from NASA studying aerodynamics and its relevance for cars at city speeds, a la 30-45mph.
As for those panels you applied I want to ask, what was the material and the size of the vehicle? Jetson ONE has an aluminum frame and carbon fiber nearly everything else. Given that we are talking outer paneling if they kept to their tendencies the outer panels would also be carbon fiber sans something clear to see through for windows. The carbon fiber material would likely add up to a total of less than 5 pounds with 5 pounds being a very conservative high limit. I've handled large chunks of carbon fiber for aircraft and cars. They are extremely light. You are way overestimating the weight increase because you are judging by using material that Jetson wouldn't use based upon their current materials used and what you used the materials you used on. Your personal example is not applicable in this scenario.
Awesome video! I was wondering about the generator idea and this perfectly explains the feasibility of such a configuration. I wonder why doesn’t Jetson (and other evtol companies) simply design a hybrid version that is designed to do exactly this more effectively and without modification. This would make these vehicles make much more sense. The generator would be loud, but you could just turn it on when you need the extra range.
The 75kg limit is a concern. It also looks like it would be challenging to get in and out of this thing. I just googled it, and the website said it costs $92K and can travel 60 miles. To me, that is a pretty good commute range. I'd say price, weight limit, and ease of use are the bigger challenges.
A blimp modification defeats the compactness of the Jetson, operation in anything but calm air will lower the advantage gained with the gas envelopes drag. Helium will inevitably leak, topping off will be a constant maintenance and cost issue. The motors would have to articulate to provide forward or reverse thrust, all things considered, a blimp is a bad idea unless it is being offset by the revenue generated by advertising space leased on the blimp. Part 103 excludes utilizing an ultralight aircraft being used for commercial purposes, advertising is obviously commercial.
you can get infinite hydrogen from water with electrolysis
@@kingmasterlord Yes, Hydrogen can be used as a lifting gas. Hydrogen has been avoided for combustion reasons in manner aircraft.
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@@airmobe4309 Sorry, blimps are too subject to wind for my liking. The balloon shaped envelope in the Blimp Airmobe proposal will be very slow, the only cross-country flights made will be downwind.
@@olsonspeed Yes, our flight will be 50 km/h maximum. That's a good drag ratio for electrical economy, a smooth flight.
I'm curious about an inflatable flying wing for STOL and/or heavy lift vehicles.
Consider the inflatable wing of SolarShip. It houses solar panels on top and generates lift with very little forward motion, as well, the bouyancy of the bladder. SolarShip is used in extremely remote operations where there is no fuel source for carrying cargo. Also, consider the very high power density of Koenigsegg combined radial AND axial flux wound motors and generators. There is always a tradeoff between functionality and space/weight. Combing the above suggestions , as detachable modules, with the optimized prop design, you should be able to make the range unlimited and versatile for specific applications. Different wing shapes could be available to provide for more lifting capacity, speed, or range, as needed. Love your work and wish you the best.
Also, consider combining supercapacitors with batteries for load spikes. This also makes batteries live longer before replacement.
Blimp hybrids are the future of aviation. You must have a larger envelope though. Balance ballast with drag and you get an ideal machine.
ZMC-2 (ideal machine)
I spent several hours looking into the personal blimp idea. I also found the advertising blimps. I forget the size, make and model now, but a blimp twice the size of the one you chose, plus two paraglider motors mounted to a pivoting axle, should work pretty well. I dropped the idea becasue the blimp was bigger than I had hoped.
Now there's a new addition to be combined with the genset: Toroidal propellers.
I really like the idea of starting with an advertising blimp and building off of it.
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@@airmobe4309 I like it! Where are you guys located?
The addition of small wings, maybe 4 m sq, would provide significant lift without affecting maneuverability. They could be optimized for cruise speed to extend the flight range.
A very good analysis . I think the solution would be the use of a very small generator( small size and weight ).
Right at the very beginning of the jetson programme I was wondering why they don't fit a generator to make it a hybrid which can self charge and refuel in minutes practically anywhere!
I think a blimp would, indeed, slow the craft down, a lot. However, with the use of a gas generator to drive a pair of vector (tiltable) electric turbines, at front and rear, this would be an amazing aircraft for slow to medium speed flight, with much longer flight duration. This would be a great flightseeing craft. Tilting the turbines to the vertical position would enable hovering, and vertical launch/landing, whilst rotating the turbines to the horizontal position would enable horizontal flight. The ducted turbines would provide enhanced safety for both crew, and blimp. :)
A large reduction in drag could be acheived by use of a tear-drop shaped carbon/fiberglass fuselage with canopy. Please do an analysis of that concept. I am quite sure that would provide a big increase in air time using the same battery.This is the difference between a hang glider and a sailplane. Add the coaxial rotor change and make it even better.
This is not strictly an engineering problem. That is nerdy. Using a blimp tnis way, begs the question: Why use a quadcopter at all--just use a larger blimp, with some fans to steer, and skip the great hurry to arrive somewhere. The rest of this advsrtising is targeted to enlist suggestions that get narrowed into things that are ultimately answered in a way that captures the attention of those looking for machinized gratification rather than any sort of functional utility. One way to make a hundred thousand dollars.
I sure would like to get one, before the sky gets too crowed !
An aerodynamic body would reduce the drag of forward movement making faster flying or longer flying. Also you can lift the rear rotors out of the turbulence created buy the front.
I believe the blimp option or combination of these options, rotor, rotary diesel motor and blimp could add payload, flight time and safety. Yes, understood is the fact the nimble quasi war plane speedy flight maneuverability might be diminished, but some of us would be more interested in a longer flight, with more payload and ranges of flight capabilities. You could always offer several models, the nimble blimp less model for those looking for that type of flight and the blimp model for reasons already explained. Keep us posted
Very Good information! Can we discuss about it privately?
Placing ducts or partial ducting around prop blades with proper clearance and axial placement was studied and shown to add thrust force to nonducted propellers in the early days of aviation.
Can’t cite the source but do remember seeing things on it (early Italian aircraft I think?)
As I notice you are always shown to be in constant, near ground level flight, or at “ground effect” height, have you considered placing a ducted radial fan “squirrel cage fan” at you center of lift?
(65 yr flight engineer)
Keep up your good work! Love it!
Ducted fan does indeed increase the thrust. The nacelle or the duct in forward flight becomes a problem. Its like a drum that is being pushed through the air. So the drag increases considerably. That is why it was dropped from Jetson one
The small motor, smaller upper blades, larger lower blades prop setup seems ideal. The blimp creates drag, adds expense and, most importantly, complexity and labor to the whole thing. It is quite shocking how well the thing works. Very surprised to hear how shrouded rotors affects air movement so drastically in the negative. Is there any hope in a larger two rotor system, either side by side or front and rear? What about the addition of a gyro copter blade above the pilot to give lift assistance in forward travel? Very interesting stuff!
Wings won't affect control if placed directly in center of gravity. And they can have servos to change wing angle.
Buoyancy strategies (blimps) only make sense if you go BIG. So I would say that "compact" and "buoyancy" are mutually exclusive. However, a buoyant body that provides some degree of aerodynamic lift (as opposed to buoyancy only) is worth exploring, though I don't see any way to make it compact.
I am thinking the rotary genset plus the rotor change is the best option. I wonder if the rotor change would add enough extra lift to allow for a larger fuel tank for the motor, thereby extending the range, or time in flight, if only by 5 minutes or so.
The helium blimp at first sounds like a good alternative, but the trade off, in my humble opinion, seem like you would lose maneuverability and speed. I think is why you would want this type of vehicle in the first place.
lighter than air flight is much less risky and energy intensive
The blimp idea could also be a charging station for the Jetson and have its own propulsion system tied to the Jetson control system. It would just need rigid structure to dock and probably some magnetic connectors for charging and control input.
Could couple that with GPS equipment so it keeps positioning while you're not docked
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I think the diesel genset with the propeller mod is the best option to stay within the original craft idea. But I would consider adding a small battery, for emergency landing in the event of engine failure.
How about a relatively high aspect ratio wing kept at the optimal angle for extending range while cruising but which folds upwards to 90 degrees or so when more dynamic flight control is desired? Or take a similar concept with a lower aspect ratio but that is helium filled and a low-wing design with an internal folding mechanism, this could provide perhaps a minor reduction in power requirements during take-off as well as providing enhanced safety in the event of a low-altitude stall as it could cushion the impact.
Loved the content, what about using a carbon fiber framework would that increase the flight time.???,
They already do that. The airframe is pretty light
My thought is replacing the bars holding the propellers with tiltwings. There will be two pairs, one in front and one in the back. The tiltwings will be face up during takeoff and landing. As the jetson begins its flight, the wings will tilt forward and will function like the wings of a regular airplane.
Nice expose to many technical points, thank u
Great video man. Always informative, entertaining and refreshing compared to the algo hunting click bate videos on other channels. Keep it up!
I like your presentations. They are full of detail and diagrams and have the supporting fact base for your conclusions.
As to the blimp size question... You showed a smaller one and detailed the gain in flight time VS the loss of fun factor in maneuverability Which is pertinent of course. My thoughts are this: We have to decide which flight mode is desired, time or performance. Performance dictates that the craft must fly as designed. For increased time a blimp of sufficient size to cancel out 95% of the payload ( craft and operator + any desired cargo) might be the answer. Since the majority of the energy used is to overcome the gravity we need to remove most of that from the equation for long distance flight. The idea does change the nature of the craft completely though and you might just as well design electric control motors for a custom single person blimp instead.
In the long run Higher density power storage will likely end up being the answer.
Thanks for all the great work you put into making these thoughtful videos!
Customized Single person blimp is a great idea. I would love to have one.
I hope this thing has a storage spot on board for some spare props because if you don't land this thing on solid flat ground it looks like it'll rock to the side and shatter a prop
They do make smaller more powerful combustion generators, such as, the tailgate generator, 700 watt continuous and higher.
Turbine generators are much smaller and lighter (but less efficient) so I think they are the best to use here. Similar to the XTI Trifan 600
i have been wanting to do this for years i have some ideas
I haven't seen any study of motor power output and efficiency for increasing rotor/stator diameters for same power consumption.
Fun analysis, thanks
Glad you liked it!
Hmm i wonder how much time I would get since i am 45 kg
Variables that I have been curious about is the weight of the airframe. What materials do they use for the Jetson? Would using carbon fiber or titanium components provide more flight time without sacrificing strength? If using those components frees up weight, you could possibly utilize a rotary engine/hybrid battery system. Also adding a flexible solar panel to the roof to help extend range as well as some sort of acrylic windshield that could provide better aerodynamics.
The whole thing with motors and battery is just over 90 kg. I have calculated that the battery itself would be over 40 kg. The four motors with props will be at least 20 kg. Then there are essential flight controls, electronics, wire harness etc. There is not much to save in the airframe
Adding a blimp would greatly increase the influence of wind on the craft.
that's what happened in the late 60's when they tried it with full sized helicopter engine pods off huey's. 4 pods, 8 engines total. the wind pushed the blades and balloon together...... but who knows maybe someone can make it work better.
May sound crazy but you can transmit electricity through a laser or maser beam. Power stations could be set up for this as long as they do not fry the pilot.
Thank you for this precise flight dynamics analysis
My pleasure!
In my mind this is the way to make electric flight possible. A blimp to counter the battery weight. But I would design the craft with 3 tilting rotors, 1 large rotor at the back with 2 in front.
Could you consider a thin film solar generator system or perhaps a compact wind (ram air turbine) generator to charge the battery while in forward flight. It could be designed to have limited drag yet still be able to charge the battery for extended time and range.
The blimp idea is a non starter at so many levels.
A pity he dismissed adding wings to provide lift during horizontal flight. No problem with manoeuvrability especially if wing control surface movement is linked to flight controller inputs. Is would add weight, complexity and size however. It depends on how far you want to fly and for how long- which is what this piece is about.
Co-axial rotors are less efficient than separate individual rotors, operating in smooth air, so if endurance is the priority that is the way to go.
Ehhh kinda... the coaxial rotor is something I investigated personally a few years ago. The configuration of two props, with altered pitch, is a good solution to packaging - a coplanar octocopter isn't as efficient as simply going to larger props on a quad, or even tri-rotor, and the coaxial propeller configuration gives immediate single-engine-out failover - the other coaxial motor just throttles up. (Although if the failure was mechanical, the other motor of the pair may very well have eaten a chunk of propeller and itself be failing by then...) But in essence, partial overlap of rotors kind of sucks for efficiency, and vibration, but a full coaxial arrangement, optimized with the differential pitch and diameter mentioned, is very favorable compared to longer arms, larger motors, and larger props on a mass/thrust/power efficiency basis.
You're pretty on point with the wing, though the angle of attack would have to be managed - since the rotors don't tilt without tilting the whole airframe, you'd need an all-moving surface sort of configuration to keep the wings level (give or take desired AOA) as the vehicle tilted forward for straight and level flight.
YMMV
they have other designs that use wings that are great,but for a basic quadcopter like this its not a good idea at all to put wings on at all...
@@roadstar499 yup. Definitely not a "bolt on" mod.
You say non-starter and then provide nothing to back that up. It's actually a great idea and hybrid airships are the future.
@@nickjunes but not as a strap on for making *this* quad go farther/longer/etc.
i think blimp should be in futuristic looks would a plus
What about gear ratio on the propellers? Would that be sufficient to speed up the propellers while keeping the motor size down?
What if the vehicle had remote or autonomous modes and be dedicated for use as search and/or rescue? In it's search function, it would need extended range, but could carry additional batteries or a generator & fuel but not a pilot. If it needs extra range in rescue mode, it could bring two batteries and leave one behind in exchange for a passenger. In both cases the cockpit can be far more streamlined, as the occupant is not required to control the vehicle.
i wonder if a Vtol Configuration will help extend the flight time for the jetson
An additional large pair of Props for lift instead of a blimp would make an interesting hybrid (heli-quad)
Let's go back and move blimps forward. Start with a blimp then build your engine, rotters, wings and so on around it. This is so workable and cheap to do.
You forgot to mention for the genset option that the weight reduces over time as the fuel is consumed.
Oh yeah. And I didnt factor that in. Good point
A bank of super capacitors would allow for constant diesel economy mode. Couple kgs.
Seems to me that a hybrid design would also make sense. While it would increase weight, why not a smaller, lighter engine pack + the battery. How would this affect flight time?
Unrelated to Jetopter: It seems to me the blimp option is largely constrained by shape... it would be interesting to see what shapes could be achieved that might affect drag coefficient and general performance.
I believe the genset motor is an excellent idea combined with the new rotor design. The blimp design would be great for advertisers or those who don't care about the loss of maneuverability to increase flight-time only! Not for individual thrill seekers. And I also believe that in the not so distant future, battery power will increase drastically as well as solar power which could also be combined with an electric battery powered vehicle to increase flight time.
This thought just popped into my head, I love the aircraft in the film mortal engines
I think blimps devalue the recreational value of the Jetson , however, by using a larger blimp you might increase the advertising interest to smaller companies. This entrepreneurial venture has a "fun" future ahead of it.
ELECTRIC AVIATION CHANNEL-what about the parawing like the ones used with power paragliding? That would definitely be cool to run the numbers and see what they are.
I like the use of blimps. For moving peoples and goods in remote regions.
How about adding a much larger lift fan under the body of the vehicle (sort of like the blade on a riding lawnmower). Being larger could it provide a majority (say 80%) of the required lift for less power, and then the 4 outboard props would only be responsible for providing the remaining 20%, and directional control?
Good solution. It would add some weight but no increase on size !
The Genset option seems overly expensive... Those generators are not cheap, the added complexity inherently makes the vehicle less safe, and lowering the available payload is not a good tradeoff. I'm not a "save the world with batteries" person, just strictly looking from a practical perspective. Fuel powered motors have their place and will continue to have advantages for the foreseeable future. But in this vehicle, It does seem that high output batteries are the way to go. (Instant response, simple mechanics, minimal systems.)
The blade optimization seems like a great idea, and should be done.
What about the 4680 Tesla battery? Would that improve battery life at all, or are those batteries to big to fit in the very limited space the Jetson ONE has?
Tesla 4680 arent more energy dense then their existing batteries. However at the larger pack scale, because they dont heat as much, you can do with a much lighter cooling system. In the Jetson1 there is no cooling system in the little pack they have, so it wouldnt make a difference.
Is not posible put a small charger on the vehicle like a "wind turbine + alternator and charge the battery during trip"? also solar cells could be maybe no ?
Interesting video. I would be interested to see another video examining how to extend RANGE for Jetson 1. The major thought I have is to keep the J1a configuration as it is, but adding a propellor for pure forward thrust, or small jet engine for pure forward thrust. These would increase top speed and hence range, for a given duration
Great suggestion!
A larger blimp could be useful. The limitation of weight is the main issue as I would not fit anyway. A blimp addon might also make it more interesting as a transport platform using remote control. Twenty minutes carrying 75 kg is quite good already for transport requirements, adding another 50 kg or much extended range would make it really interesting.
Love your videos 😍
Thank you
Thanks for the Update regarding the Toyota Solid State Batteries. Solid State Batteries are coming. It is a matter of time.
No doubt!