I left the Mormon church mentally after visiting my sister at BYU, attending a gospel doctrines class with her and learning the very thing Jill mentioned - a professor stated very plainly how you will not reach the celestial kingdom and you’ll live an eternity outside of Gods presence and without the ability to see the rest of your family if you do not get married in the temple. I will never forget the moment, as a 16 year old, sitting in that class next to my precious sister. It felt like a physical blow to the chest, and a deep feeling that THIS is not true. I remember looking around in shock, I’d never heard this said before. Nobody else seemed as upset or affected by this. I went home and my relationship with the church was never the same. Finally, at 30 years old I am happy. Only in the last few years have I really started the hard work of undoing the messaging and damaging beliefs I was raised in. I feel good about my healing, about who I am, about my spirituality. I may be an eternal disappointment to my family, but I’m happier than I have ever been. It’s inspiring to listen to these videos and see how, for some, their love for their children surpasses any religious organization.
I'm happy to hear this. Too many people have/are giving their lives over to cults. It's sickening to see generations of families who continue to have children and basically follow whatever the CULT LEADERS tell them to do regarding every aspect of their lives. They are NOT churches. They are 'for profit organizations' that are controlling their 'members' for money and power. Despicable people.
I am so thankful to have found this podcast. I have spent the last few weeks meeting with Mormon LDS missionaries. There has been a couple different ones along with one who has remained the same. My husband and I have been very open to listening to these gentlemen. They are super nice and I really do enjoy meeting and talking with them. We have heard of LDS before but hadn't really ever learned about their church or beliefs, so I had to start finding answers for myself because they are really pushing us to come to their church and set a baptism date. Thank you so very much for what you do because I have now been watching episodes for 2 straight days now and it has answered so many questions for me, and I now know that their church is not for me. You all are doing a wonderful job. I love listening to everyone, and will continue to watch and follow.
That is why this podcast exists. Informed consent is EVERYTHING. Thank you for being vulnerable in sharing your experience because it is healing for others. Best of luck to you on your faith journey!
Don't do this. They are born and raised to follow the leaders plans. The whole reason they have their 2 year missions are to SELL, SELL, SELL. The goal is to sign up as many ppl as possible for Baptism!!!!! The missionaries are blind to the fact that they are being used. They are brought up by the cult from birth.
3:05:54 “That should have been reason enough for me to leave, and i’m not proud of myself that it wasn’t” may be the most heartbreaking yet honest thing I’ve ever heard on MSP. This sweet mother made me cry for a good ten minutes after she said that!! Big internet hug to you Julie!!!
Her pain is so palpable. I hope in time she'll be able to claim the forgiveness that is our big brother, Jesus Christ, for her own. Blessings to you, Julie ❤️❤️
@@janehartman6871 Why it hurts so much, for me, is that the church teaches that those who leave are lost. Many of us have families that refuse to have anything to do with us now since we’ve left. It reminds me of when I thought that way also about my family. How I thought of those already out as lost, how I loved them less because they were out. Now out after 50 years, I too, like Julie, feel guilty and ashamed of myself that I allowed my religion to teach me how to self-righteously judge those I knew and worked with, and supposedly love, even family. I’m ashamed that for me, allegiance to the faith was more important than my allegiance to family.
I cannot praise this mother enough. You are so very brave for following what you know to be right and I can see you love your children unconditionally. Remember to always love yourself just as much as you do others.
Crying my eyes out, I'm so proud of us as people for over coming the church's indoctrination, and sharing our stories. So much pain caused by these messages the church spreads ❤
This whole interview was so incredibly heartwarming, and seeing Julie cry at the end of the interview after attending her first Pride parade with her nephew and husband was such a profoundly beautiful ending.
John really has a good presence about him. You can feel how easy it is for people to share their stories. Also, I loved the “You ran out the door” moment that made everybody laugh!
The spell that the Mormon Corporation uses to exploit those in need of mental peace is debilitating. That a missionary pays to extend the Mormon franchise is inconceivable. Let alone the tithing taxing those in need of salvation.
1:14:45. The girl who was kidnapped and murdered; her name was Zoe Hastings. I grew up in the Dallas East Stake with Zoe's parents. Zoe's grandfather was our stake president back in the early 90's. Zoe's body was actually found in a creek bed right across the street from the stake center - the church building where she spent almost all of her life and ultimately where her funeral was held. I was at the funeral. I was an usher. This was the first time as an usher at church where we actually had to usher, as there were so many non-members from the community that came to pay their respects and try to make some sort of sense out of something so senseless. I counted over 2,500 and it was standing room only. Zoe's dad Jim spoke and talked about how he had to tell Zoe's younger brothers and sisters how Zoe was never coming back home and that she was gone. I stood there in the foyer of the chapel watching a father tell this tragic story over the body of his daughter as I could look out the front windows of the church and see about where Zoe was found and all the numerous people that were going about their cool fall Saturday without a care in the.world. Walkers and cyclists going by completely removed from the devastation that was going on inside the walls of the church in that moment. I've never been to a funeral of a murder victim before and I never want to again. Mormons are pretty good about being emotionally removed from death as their doctrine and teachings is about eternal families and their deceased loved one are not lost but waiting for them on the other side. Consequently, I don't think Mormons generally grieve a death as others do.....as perhaps Mormons should. But Zoe's death and how everyone in the stake reacted, was not typical Mormon. People were shocked, appalled, confused, angry, and grieved for her and her family. A life not yet lived and snuffed out for no reason. So sad and so tragic. She was such a sweet person and her name deserved to be said and remembered.
@@daniellima2973 - yeah, his DNA was already in the system due to a previous rape investigation he was never tried for. They arrested him two weeks later. He was charged with capital murder which is death penalty in Texas. He was found guilty But due to one juror was a hold out on sentencing to death. She was adamant that no one can say with absolute certainty that Zoe did not voluntarily leave with him, which would not be aggravated kidnapping. Almost came to a hung jury but ultimately Zoe's family just wanted it to be over and accepted a murder one sentence of 35 to life. Doesn't seem a fitting sentence for what he did. The abduction was so random, if not for his DNA profile in the system, it would've likely been a cold case.
I did not grow up religious, yet I love watching and learning about the Mormon experience. The most important negative regarding most religions is not meeting, understanding or being tolerant of others who we don't understand.
This was so healing to listen to. I stopped going to church regularly when I was 15. I am now 57. I never fully stopped believing, but had so many questions about all the issues you address in your podcast. My dad used to ask me “when I was going to start living my life right” I simply replied - Dad I am honest, kind and love those in my life. I am probably living my life more “right” than many you sit with on Sundays. He was good with that. My parents were great and loving people. I am grateful they loved me no matter what. Thank you for your podcast, it has answered so many questions.
The problem is, Christians are taught that it’s not enough to be an honest, kind and loving person. They make a huge point of it. You have to be a Christian or you’ll burn in hell. And these days, they also demand that you be a Republican Trump-worshiper. I’m really glad for you that your dad is better than that.
Came across this episode by accident. Food for the soul Ed and Julie helped create a wonderful family culture for them all to grow and thrive in. Loved Margis questions and insights.
Wow, a lifetime of programming ended for this young woman in 3 months. I'm so happy for you jill, figure it out for yourself and do what makes you happy.
I am in the "never mormon" group, but a woman of faith. What an awesome Mom, and I relate with my own LGBTQ child, and the others who have not followed in the faith in which they were raised. They are all precious children and keeping my door open to love them cost me my marriage. Good for you n being honest, and for a husband who listened to his wife.
For 25 years I was a member of a Bible believing Baptist church. So much of this podcast resonated with me. I have left the church community, not my faith in God, but the hypocrisy of the Baptist church community. I could no longer worship with people who have such a narrow view of the world. Thanks for sharing this story.
I hear you. I have moved away from a lot of Christian theology as well, finding a better path for me of secular spirituality, including Buddhism, which I see as the science of peace of mind. Stoicism also has helped me quite a bit to stand up and be accountable for my own thoughts and actions. This path has helped me to navigate through life including serious mental health issues in the family.
Church and State should have never and should not be mixed. When preachers started getting involved with a specific political party, started telling their flocks to give them money to make themselves rich, (prosperity grifters) and began telling them for whom they should vote, they stopped having time for the teachings of Jesus Christ. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church, and at 63 now, it seems the church started going strong into politics with the Reagan’s. And Nancy Reagan went to psychics and received tarot card readings. And now more churches promote Trump and cry about LGBTQ+ than Christian teachings. That leaves Jesus out completely because there’s nothing in the New Testament that mentions homosexuality. Now we have a Speaker who claims to be Moses and focuses on more on Jodi Hildebrandt type focus with his son than anything else. Just saying. I remember when being kind and helping each other was more important than attacking the most vulnerable in our community.
I just came across your podcasts, my grandmother was part of a pioneer family, as was her husband's. In the 1940's she stood up in the temple, her grandfather helped design, and told the congregation that they were NOT following the true religion. The fall-out was immediate, dramatic, and multi-generational. It was not until the late 1990's that anyone would talk to my mother on her father's, and it was limited. My grandmother was remarkable for a Mormon woman (she had two Master's Degrees, spoke Spanish, played the piano and Irish bagpipes.) But not one family member helped when her husband beat her, the children, and they had no food or place to live. Finally, someone rented space 8n a basement to them. We have so many family stories written down, it is truly fabulous to read them - going back to the 1830's on onward as my family was in NY, Navoo, SLC and helped found many cities in Utah at the direction of the church - even though one man asked to please be allowed to stop settling new places as " he was too old and it would surely be the death of him." He went anyway. As a non-Mormon, I have found it amazing how much history the church has hidden, lied about, or just outright changed to suit their needs. I hear the stories on here and I just cannot fathom how people can blindly believe - but I remember they do not understand the beginnings of the church and what has gone on throughout the years. The Mormon Church is awesome at hiding the truth - example is why people had to submit their geneology five generations back - it was to prove they were white and Europeans - even a tiny bit of some other blood was not acceptable - but someone recently tried to tell me the Mormon Church has never been racist - that they were being cautious because of the political climate in the 1800's. The Mormons were far from anyone else for the majority of the 1800's and ruled Utah with an iron fist - if they could break federal and every "acceptable" religious laws (polygamy), kill other settlers who entered their territory, they could have easily have accepted the negros at the time and have protected them. Anyway, keep up the great work you are doing!
I think the leaders were understanding when I left. I was diagnosed with a mental illness. Also, my uncle was a lawyer, and was able to notarize my exit letter. (I was a convert). It was easy for me to make the transition out, because I remembered what it was like before I joined. And I found faith in mainstream Christianity, eventually.
@malkiyahu Wow. My God doesn't need money or a hierarchy. If your religion has a business model it's not about God, it's about human greed and desire for power. I believe in GOD, not religion.
I pray this helps also. Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below: No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence? Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie. Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this. Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?
I love this , I've never been Mormon but I have had to deconstruct my own faith , the journey is so similar except I'm decades into it . I was a teenager when the Catholic Church was brought to it's knees in Ireland and the culture of shame was turned back on the church . I have no tolerance for any religion that keeps people in line through shame ..
This Mother’s love and respect for her children has been reciprocated by her entire family. When you love without limits or boundaries what else would you get in return but the same. Kudos
This two souls are the most beautiful woman’s who I have seen. They share the love and sad experiences. Definitely I was crying with them. Thanks John to share something so precious with us. They are one soul in love. ❤
I was a convert to the church in 1990 and left the church in 2001 after the death of my grandfather and for the same reason of never being able to reconcile the lack of acceptance of my best friend within the church because of who he loved or that my grandfather had done enough on this Earth as a good man to reach Heaven. Thank you Jill and Julie for sharing your story. One of my favorites of all! Thank you, once again, Mormon Stories!
So I left the church three years ago. My parent are hardcore TBM, I told them all the difficulties of my mission from years ago. I never enjoyed my mission that much and I wish that I had left a few months into my mission. To this day, I have very strict boundaries with my parents. We try and stay off the subject of religion. No religion, no politics, and NO relationship topics! It’s become healthier after that, they respect my individual choices and my desire to live life . I respect there decision to remain in the church.
I think that what you are describing is 100% acceptable… Our world is changing so dramatically from one generation to the next… I am proud of you And your parents that you have decided that somehow you will continue your lives’ journeys together
Hello John and Margie! I’m a NeverMo and loyal listener. If I’m being honest, I didn’t enjoy Margie when I first found this RUclips channel (maybe 2 years ago?). I don’t know if I’ve evolved as a listener or Margie has grown as an interviewer, but she is now my favorite co-host. Her questions are very insightful and her compassion is heart warming. My sincere apologies for my initial judgement.
I wish I could get my TBM mom to listen to this! Having a gay brother who was so suicidal in the 90's before coming out. I know my mom would be able to relate to this mother. Definitely one of my favorite Mormon Stories! Thank you so much for sharing your story.
Not religious. Live in Sweden. Just believing in God. Been following your podcast for some years now. Totally fascinating. This one feels special. I've cried and cried.
@@Maryfs1 I'm so sorry to hear that and I empathize with you. I've had disconnection in my family, as well, and completely understand the sense of loneliness that comes from that loss. I'm hoping and praying you find people in your life who can fill that gap to some degree. This is why I'm almost obsessed with studying cults and high demand organizations. It's a huge issue that's not getting the attention it deserves. I wish you well!
I think they can learn something from you just living your life authentically, or at least that's what I hope for myself and my family. I just wish they could see the truth about this cult that has been hurting our family for generations and continues to do so.
Both of these women talked about their constant desire, their need to be "good". Be a good kid, be a good wife, be a good missionary, a good member of the church. What strikes me is the love, patience and grace this family has given each other through this very difficult process. The measurement for the definition of "good" for them was determined by the church before. But obviously, they were already "good," or they wouldn't have come through this trial as well as they did. The love for each other existed before their faith chrisises, saw them through that difficult and trauamtic time, and really shines through with where they are at right now.
We are so proud to have you in our family Julie, Jill and Durrants. You are all so brave and strong to navigate this. Please know our family is ALWAYS here for you. Much love, April
Beautiful podcast! Thank you for sharing! You're a sweet family! I'm a X Mormon, Returned Missionary Mom who sent a daughter on a mission...once she got home, she's been frustrated and angry that I walked away. I understand, but am hoping she will someday see my point of view.
This is sooo close to my own story. We left a year ago. Lost our faith 2 months before our oldest daughter came home from mission. I was the Primary President and 42 at the time. These are wonderful women and I'm so glad to hear other families that have made it through this.. it is not easy. We live in Orem and it is a lot better now, but I still feel like an outsider and like I've lost most of my friends.
Yea, I can understand where you are coming from. When leaving the church. I think at times it can be like a grieving process for instance leaving your friends behind.
You lost faith in LDS, but did you repent of being a sinner and ask the true Lord Jesus Christ to save you to the uttermost??? If not, you are not going to heaven. Bad news and good news.
@@duststorm2699 your comment seems to condemn you . Who are you to judge anyone ? Oh ya you are nobody . But then how you judge others is how you will be judged so guess you will be seen in hell yourself lol.
Omgosh, this hits home, very similar story in our family. We left 10 years ago, our oldest has struggled with homosexuality too because of the brain washing she’s had since birth, she’s now 34 yrs . We could not would not choose a church over our beautiful Daughter. We have never looked back with any regrets for leaving. God bless you ladies for letting your story be heard to others whom my be struggling with their faith… I ❤ Mormon Stories!
You do not have to choose the church of your child?? If you do then that is on you no one else or the church . That is on you . Many members have. Gay children . So what . They do big disown them . dTodd Christopher brother is gay . They still love and include him .
@@lindamartinez7006 I think the bigger question Linda is where does the LGBTQ community or members fit in with the church. Do they feel like they belong or accepted.
@@ExploreXplore394 if your child is gay so what Doctrine is not changing . But yes they are still loved . This lady does not understand how many members have this exact same heartache with their children . They do not cut their children off or the church . God makes his own ways . His own plans of salvation and exaltation which I feel is a perfect just plan . All will be happy in the end and comfortable to what degree they want and enjoy . I have children with some of these Beth same problems . So do many many people . Levi’s sons tired to kill him even and never believed their prophet father . So what . They also tried to kill their own brother also a prophet . This lady says she lived so righteously and was promised perfect children . That is a lie . She needs to study up on prophets themselves families . Jacob had mostly bad sons except for two . How does that make the church wrong . Many missionaries come home and leave . Elder David Bednar talks on that and gives the reason why . She also should go study the sower parable and the different kinds of ground and how they reacted to the seeds . Meaning same messages but all had different hearts . All receive a way better portion then here still . Maybe some do not understand that parable .
Thank you Jill & Judy for coming on & sharing your story & family with us. I love how you recognize the immense amount of grace your gay daughter has for her family. She’s really amazing. You are all amazing. ❤️
I'm Exmo and you don't need to keep the delusions of an invisible man in the sky and supposed half mortal man who came from a supposed "virgin" birth! Origins of purity culture stem from the paternal religions if the past couple of thousand years. Please allow yourself the space to question all religious beliefs through logic.❤
Go Mom! I’m so moved by their story and wish for this outcome for all! I’ve opened up to my mom about my lost of faith and she cried her eyes out. It was the most painful look she gave me and it sucks that there will always be that barrier. But I’m just blown by the mother’s unconditional love, as it should be 😊
Ex Catholic here. I left when I was a teenager. Now a 50 year agnostic. I married an ex Mormon. She too left as a teen and became agnostic. All of our kids, all of our grandkids are free of religion. Our lives are so much simpler and authentic.
I still can not get over that the church teaches truth and kept all this information from we the members. That is what really hurt me. The leaders dont like being called racist and bigoted, then dont act like it. I didnt realize a lot of the actions of the church.
The interview has been so helpful! Please let these beautiful ladies know how much they have helped. My son is on his mission right now, and I wasn’t able to tell him before he left. I wanted to support him. It feels like I will be a disappointment to him. But I want to be honest when he gets back. I do wonder if he doesn’t already know to a certain degree. Anyway, until then I won’t worry about it till he’s back. Who knows what the right thing is to do. Thank you for this interview.
I hope love and solidarity of family love rises above all things up to and including religion. The hypocrisy of a corporation that “serves God” to separate families not because there is abuse or crimes happening but because they chose a different path is heart shattering for all believers. You’ve got this!
You mentioned that Brad Wilcox was instrumental in pushing you out of the Church. I'd like to point out that the Brethren evidently decided that he is still in good standing after his famous talk. Wilcox was invited to offer a prayer in one of the sessions of the last General Conference. So there you have it. The Church had an opportunity to essentially say that Wilcox does not represent the kind of messaging we want to convey. Instead, they put him out there in the highest profile venue possibly. Noted.
Brad Wilcox was in my ward when he was a teenager. He was very talented and a positive natural leader. I have watched him grow spiritually as an adult. I still highly admire him. He has a great, righteous spirit.
I have watched so many episodes of Mormon Stories and this is by far my favorite. Julie and Jill seem like some of the sweetest people put on this earth, the amount of love within that family truly gives me so much hope for the rest of the world. Absolutely beautiful story.
Wow what a lovely interview! This is one of those Mormon Stories where love and solidarity are so front and center. It was neat to see how this family came together and supported each other in new ways during each chapter. Definitely one I'll send to my family members if and when they have faith crises. Thank you Julie and Jill!!
Exactly what happened to my wife and I. 2015 I was losing my faith while my oldest daughter was preparing to serve a mission. I had resigned from my calling in the bishopric and was falling deep down the rabbit hole of history. My wife was still hanging on until our daughter left for her mission. All these years later and it is still a sensitive subject with our daughter. We formally resigned in 2017.
But did you find the truth in your Bible? Just leaving something is not enough. You don't seem to have the true joy of being a born again Christian. Have you replaced the false teaching with sound doctrine? Thanks
What an amazing story! I agree with you John. I think this is one of the best stories I’ve heard thus far. I’m an ex-Mormon, and my parents were converts, but they never quit smoking nor drinking coffee and tea. They were what they call Jack-Mormons in CA. They pretty much used the church when they were in need (mom’s mental illness and dad got cancer), so they didn’t have any deep roots in the church. I was a hit and miss Mormon but easily walked away when I was told to break up with my Catholic boyfriend (now my husband). I just can’t imagine being Julie and all she and her family went through. I just hope they remain happy and healthy. God bless them!
This is definitely my favorite interview so far. Thanks to Julie and Jill for sharing their story completely, without fear. It's hard to articulate what a high demand church/organization doe to people. The amazing thing is that their testimony about their journey was so weighty not because of how horrible their Mormon experience was as much as their happiness, joy and freedom from having left the church. Thanks to everyone for making this sharing experience happen.
Not becoming "a robot" & taking care of yourself is so very important on a Mormon mission! I know I was getting quite burnt out near the end of my mission with my companion who was pushy with "following the rules."
When Margi mentioned depression for moms because they carry the weight, that is true. I did everything the church asked. I certainly was not perfect. Our boys fought church since they were young. To the point that some of them were completely different people when they were at church. This has definitely put my mental health in a place it has never been in. Because I feel like it is all my fault, and I have failed as a mom.
You were a good mother. Their choices are no longer your responsibility. You do need to trust the true Jesus of the Bible, who is much different from the Mormon Jesus. Read the books of John and Romans in your King James Bible.
This is such a great family. This interview was just incredible. I’d like to add the remaining family members to the discussion. This was a long interview… nearly 4 hours.. and still it wasn’t long enough.
Such a beautiful episode of very real human experiences. I appreciate these so much and have found a lot of comfort in hearing from others who have walked through this journey. It has helped me to know I’m not alone. One thing that stood out to me here is that they worked to not let the church stand between them and their closest loved ones. I’ve seen so many damaged relationships in the name of the church and instead of bringing families closer, it has driven a wedge.
I can’t help but feel very proud of these people for being devoted to having a loving family… I recognize how special and inspiring their story is …. such a complex problem, but they overcame the difficulties, and everyone knows that he/she matters….. Mom is powerhouse and I love the way her goal is always to be 100% honest….. she made me laugh when she said no one could do it better than she has(meaning raising her children)…. By the video’s end, she has proven herself to be someone that we all could/should try to model ourselves after. I am definitely going to try. I’m saving the video to be able to revisit it… Good luck to these special people in the future.
Excellent interview!!! I hope you make a short of the part where Jill tells about her brother Tom explaining that the church worked for him and gave him many opportunities as a white, heterosexual male but he decided it wasn’t right to continue benefitting from his place of privilege when others were being hurt by being excluded. It was a powerful, gut punch moment in the interview!
Really loved this episode. So relatable in every way, especially when Julie described her guilt for not leaving the church sooner when she realized it was harming her LGBT daughter and how it still took several more years; this was also my experience and I live with that guilt, too. Would also love more stories about navigating relationships with adult TBM children.
I felt so much compassion for mom when she said she had such relief and joy when she left the mormon church, because how sad living with that pressure and obsession. My faith in Jesus has freed me and given me true joy, even through the trials of life. I hope her family finds that.
I have never heard a mormon story that I related with so much. Thank you to all of you for sharing this. I feel your hearts so much. My daughter was on a mission when I left too. I read the CES letter. Holland's talk was it for me. I took down all my pictures all around my house that day, sold them and donated to proceeds to Latter Gay Stories.
Will be a good one. We left as well as our son was 6 months into his 2 yr mission. Super painful for us as his mission pres said not to talk to us about our decision and why. Brutal. So he obeyed.
I’m just in the process of joining the LDS church, I wasapproached by missionaries. At first I was very eager however at that time I was in such a low place been suffering with my mental health extremely bad I had attempted to take my own life, been diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety disorder , I was going through a court case regarding historical SA I had experienced, and just before my court case I split with my husband it was an extremely traumatic and painful split, I thought all the attention I was getting from the church was a warm and comforting place and now I don’t know how I feel. I am so very confused I loved your video and although it has made me think hard I know don’t know how i feel or what to do. 😢🙏🏽🥺thank you for sharing and this Mom and Daughter are so inspiring. Those last few words “don’t stop believing “ is like a double edged sword to me 🥺
Thank you Julie and Jill for sharing your story. We are so happy for your family! My wife and I loved this interview and feel the same happiness after leaving the church. This was one of the best episodes yet!
This is the most beautiful story of love and family ❤ while I was listening, the religion fell away and the story of what a I believe is True family touched my heart in a way that opened my heart more . Thank you All for such an inspiring example for us all. I stumbled upon this channel by “accident “ and I look forward to exploring further. I have lived in Utah my whole life and was raised Mormon until I was 10 53 years ago and when my family left the church back then, lots of my friends couldn’t play with me etc. I have held resentment towards the church my whole life and working on forgiveness for all. Much Love
This is SUCH an important podcast for helping many people. I have watched probably 100 hours of skillful moderators allowing individuals to reveal their stories. It has had quite an impact on me. Now 72, and a scientist, I’ve pursued a strong sense of inquiry into science, spirituality, personal development. I engage with many Christians but my core focus has been secular Buddhism. Your guest Brittney Hartley now has opened the door to secular spirituality for me, most profound. Thank you both so much for your perspectives.
One of my favorite stories! You both are amazing women! Thank you for sharing the quote by Scott Fitzgerald. I will be framing that quote in my home ❤️ So Proudly Powerful!
Thank you, Julie and Jill. And Margi and John for the most tender and impactful of podcasts episodes. There is no way to recap all of the meaningful insights from this interview. What a guide for the ups and downs of parenting and families. It is not easy. My heart is full for the happiness and hope that I feel for a wonderful family. And thanks Julie for being a Young Women leader who meant a lot to my daughters.
That was a very engging story. I popped it on and worked my night around listening to it. Really good story, a lesson in love and acceptance. Five stars.
Julie Durrant! My great, great, great grandpa was George D Watt, as well! We are relatives. 💗 I resigned last year. I’d like to think he’d be proud of us since he died an ex-communicated member.
So good to hear about. She's closer in age to my age than my parents, but it helps me understand my dad. My dad's mom worked, so he wanted a woman who would be there to raise the children.. Not work outside the home. I am so grateful for my mom being there. & my dad providing.. My mom helped with earning money sometimes, but mostly focused on raising us.
Wonderful interview! Thank you MS for introducing us to these amazing women. This one was very meaningful for me, so many families feel the need to choose between a gay child and their religion. It should not be so! The choice was obvious for me, but it is a painful process. I will not support an institution that finances opposition of my own children's marriage choices. Having ancient leadership is at the crux of it.
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez When it comes to losing your faith in the Mormon Cult Church, it is always amazing because one has broken the brainwashing of the Mormon Cult Religion. That is something you can't say about yourself there Miguel, huh???
This one made me cry a lot. The love here is so real and so beautiful. This family really cares about each other, and they all found their way to a place of harmony because they took the time to love, respect, and understand each other through each of their journeys. And damn, this mom and this family know how to be LGBTQ allies like no one I've ever encountered. The way they speak so highly of their sister...y'all are wonderful and this episode was good feelings all the way through. Thank you!
I am an X-Mormon, I serve a mission, my daughter served as missionary in Spain. I had a lot questions and was told I shouldn't question anything about the Church. I know that is wrong wrong
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez It is called "common sense", Miguel. There is no need for Brent to pray/enquire about it because God give us a BRAIN TO USE instead of praying/enquire to a Mormon God who is racists! Brent used his BRAIN to determine what is right and wrong...DUHHH!
@@Revbone450 I completed my entire 18-month mission. I found out about my parents leaving a year into the mission. That was almost 2 years ago when I found out about my parents leaving.
how many tears have i shed listening, especially during these 4 hours of MS? my eyes are raw... but my heart is lighter. I have ALWAYS been an all inclusive, all accepting kind a gal who calls herself a Christian (many others may not agree)...I have lost almost every member of my family for standing up, for and against.... mostly on behalf of others...and increasingly for myself. I don't feel as alone when I listen to these beautiful conversations and journey's of those I may never know.... i found MS a soothing way to connect my struggles with those open enough to share... I cry a lot....and I was never a mormon... I find it a wonderful way to find company as I struggle to find rest for my body and soul. thank you. deeply🙏🏽🥰😭
I just want to say…. Your podcast is NOT TOO LONG!!! I love digging into people’s stories! Keep them coming!
Julie: "Just love people and accept them where they're at" Thank you, Julie.
I left the Mormon church mentally after visiting my sister at BYU, attending a gospel doctrines class with her and learning the very thing Jill mentioned - a professor stated very plainly how you will not reach the celestial kingdom and you’ll live an eternity outside of Gods presence and without the ability to see the rest of your family if you do not get married in the temple. I will never forget the moment, as a 16 year old, sitting in that class next to my precious sister. It felt like a physical blow to the chest, and a deep feeling that THIS is not true. I remember looking around in shock, I’d never heard this said before. Nobody else seemed as upset or affected by this. I went home and my relationship with the church was never the same. Finally, at 30 years old I am happy. Only in the last few years have I really started the hard work of undoing the messaging and damaging beliefs I was raised in. I feel good about my healing, about who I am, about my spirituality. I may be an eternal disappointment to my family, but I’m happier than I have ever been. It’s inspiring to listen to these videos and see how, for some, their love for their children surpasses any religious organization.
I'm happy to hear this. Too many people have/are giving their lives over to cults. It's sickening to see generations of families who continue to have children and basically follow whatever the CULT LEADERS tell them to do regarding every aspect of their lives. They are NOT churches. They are 'for profit organizations' that are controlling their 'members' for money and power. Despicable people.
I am so thankful to have found this podcast. I have spent the last few weeks meeting with Mormon LDS missionaries. There has been a couple different ones along with one who has remained the same. My husband and I have been very open to listening to these gentlemen. They are super nice and I really do enjoy meeting and talking with them. We have heard of LDS before but hadn't really ever learned about their church or beliefs, so I had to start finding answers for myself because they are really pushing us to come to their church and set a baptism date. Thank you so very much for what you do because I have now been watching episodes for 2 straight days now and it has answered so many questions for me, and I now know that their church is not for me. You all are doing a wonderful job. I love listening to everyone, and will continue to watch and follow.
I am so glad you did research for yourself.
That is why this podcast exists. Informed consent is EVERYTHING. Thank you for being vulnerable in sharing your experience because it is healing for others. Best of luck to you on your faith journey!
Praise God you learned the truth!
Don't do this. They are born and raised to follow the leaders plans. The whole reason they have their 2 year missions are to SELL, SELL, SELL. The goal is to sign up as many ppl as possible for Baptism!!!!! The missionaries are blind to the fact that they are being used. They are brought up by the cult from birth.
I'm glad you figured out what this program really is before joining!
3:05:54
“That should have been reason enough for me to leave, and i’m not proud of myself that it wasn’t” may be the most heartbreaking yet honest thing I’ve ever heard on MSP. This sweet mother made me cry for a good ten minutes after she said that!! Big internet hug to you Julie!!!
True that!
Her pain is so palpable. I hope in time she'll be able to claim the forgiveness that is our big brother, Jesus Christ, for her own. Blessings to you, Julie ❤️❤️
@@spyiispy absolutely. It’s not even what she says really but the pain in her eyes when she says that, it just wrecks me!
@@janehartman6871 it is both.
@@janehartman6871 Why it hurts so much, for me, is that the church teaches that those who leave are lost. Many of us have families that refuse to have anything to do with us now since we’ve left. It reminds me of when I thought that way also about my family. How I thought of those already out as lost, how I loved them less because they were out.
Now out after 50 years, I too, like Julie, feel guilty and ashamed of myself that I allowed my religion to teach me how to self-righteously judge those I knew and worked with, and supposedly love, even family. I’m ashamed that for me, allegiance to the faith was more important than my allegiance to family.
Wow it was so clear throughout this whole interview just how much love Julie has for her children. So beautiful.
😢😢
We all do.
Julie has no reason to leave .
Stay strong.
I cannot praise this mother enough. You are so very brave for following what you know to be right and I can see you love your children unconditionally. Remember to always love yourself just as much as you do others.
Not really. She’s sitting there speaking in that little girl voice like Michele Duggar. Lady, you are in a cult. Figure it out! Get out!
Iuuuuuuuuuiuouui😮uuu😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮i😮i😮u😮iuuui😮😮😮
@@barbwarth8751 what?
Crying my eyes out, I'm so proud of us as people for over coming the church's indoctrination, and sharing our stories. So much pain caused by these messages the church spreads ❤
It’s not a real church. Please don’t call it that.
All for power and money
This whole interview was so incredibly heartwarming, and seeing Julie cry at the end of the interview after attending her first Pride parade with her nephew and husband was such a profoundly beautiful ending.
I never heard of Satan used in a patriarchal blessing. Wow
I simply could not stop listening to this podcast. This story is not exclusive to Mormons, and I think that’s why it resonates with so many others.
Non Mormon here, but im weirdly obsessed. This is my favorite episode ever!!!!
I deff agree!
Non Mormon as well and obsessed with this podcast. I can't believe what some of these people are brainwashed to believe.😢
John really has a good presence about him. You can feel how easy it is for people to share their stories.
Also, I loved the “You ran out the door” moment that made everybody laugh!
"He has a dark countenance, you can see the evil in his eyes" 😂😂😂
The spell that the Mormon Corporation uses to exploit those in need of mental peace is debilitating. That a missionary pays to extend the Mormon franchise is inconceivable. Let alone the tithing taxing those in need of salvation.
1:14:45. The girl who was kidnapped and murdered; her name was Zoe Hastings. I grew up in the Dallas East Stake with Zoe's parents. Zoe's grandfather was our stake president back in the early 90's. Zoe's body was actually found in a creek bed right across the street from the stake center - the church building where she spent almost all of her life and ultimately where her funeral was held. I was at the funeral. I was an usher. This was the first time as an usher at church where we actually had to usher, as there were so many non-members from the community that came to pay their respects and try to make some sort of sense out of something so senseless. I counted over 2,500 and it was standing room only. Zoe's dad Jim spoke and talked about how he had to tell Zoe's younger brothers and sisters how Zoe was never coming back home and that she was gone. I stood there in the foyer of the chapel watching a father tell this tragic story over the body of his daughter as I could look out the front windows of the church and see about where Zoe was found and all the numerous people that were going about their cool fall Saturday without a care in the.world. Walkers and cyclists going by completely removed from the devastation that was going on inside the walls of the church in that moment. I've never been to a funeral of a murder victim before and I never want to again. Mormons are pretty good about being emotionally removed from death as their doctrine and teachings is about eternal families and their deceased loved one are not lost but waiting for them on the other side. Consequently, I don't think Mormons generally grieve a death as others do.....as perhaps Mormons should. But Zoe's death and how everyone in the stake reacted, was not typical Mormon. People were shocked, appalled, confused, angry, and grieved for her and her family. A life not yet lived and snuffed out for no reason. So sad and so tragic. She was such a sweet person and her name deserved to be said and remembered.
Did they ever found the bastard who did it?
@@daniellima2973 - yeah, his DNA was already in the system due to a previous rape investigation he was never tried for. They arrested him two weeks later. He was charged with capital murder which is death penalty in Texas. He was found guilty But due to one juror was a hold out on sentencing to death. She was adamant that no one can say with absolute certainty that Zoe did not voluntarily leave with him, which would not be aggravated kidnapping. Almost came to a hung jury but ultimately Zoe's family just wanted it to be over and accepted a murder one sentence of 35 to life. Doesn't seem a fitting sentence for what he did. The abduction was so random, if not for his DNA profile in the system, it would've likely been a cold case.
Miguel is a bully & a troll, I’m just now noticing. I’m blocking & suggest this to anyone else.
thank you for sharing.
Thank you for this. I agree with everything you wrote.
I did not grow up religious, yet I love watching and learning about the Mormon experience. The most important negative regarding most religions is not meeting, understanding or being tolerant of others who we don't understand.
This was so healing to listen to. I stopped going to church regularly when I was 15. I am now 57. I never fully stopped believing, but had so many questions about all the issues you address in your podcast. My dad used to ask me “when I was going to start living my life right” I simply replied - Dad I am honest, kind and love those in my life. I am probably living my life more “right” than many you sit with on Sundays. He was good with that. My parents were great and loving people. I am grateful they loved me no matter what.
Thank you for your podcast, it has answered so many questions.
Same here ❤
The problem is, Christians are taught that it’s not enough to be an honest, kind and loving person. They make a huge point of it. You have to be a Christian or you’ll burn in hell. And these days, they also demand that you be a Republican Trump-worshiper. I’m really glad for you that your dad is better than that.
Came across this episode by accident. Food for the soul Ed and Julie helped create a wonderful family culture for them all to grow and thrive in. Loved Margis questions and insights.
Wow, a lifetime of programming ended for this young woman in 3 months. I'm so happy for you jill, figure it out for yourself and do what makes you happy.
I am in the "never mormon" group, but a woman of faith. What an awesome Mom, and I relate with my own LGBTQ child, and the others who have not followed in the faith in which they were raised. They are all precious children and keeping my door open to love them cost me my marriage. Good for you n being honest, and for a husband who listened to his wife.
For 25 years I was a member of a Bible believing Baptist church. So much of this podcast resonated with me. I have left the church community, not my faith in God, but the hypocrisy of the Baptist church community. I could no longer worship with people who have such a narrow view of the world. Thanks for sharing this story.
I hear you. I have moved away from a lot of Christian theology as well, finding a better path for me of secular spirituality, including Buddhism, which I see as the science of peace of mind.
Stoicism also has helped me quite a bit to stand up and be accountable for my own thoughts and actions. This path has helped me to navigate through life including serious mental health issues in the family.
Church and State should have never and should not be mixed. When preachers started getting involved with a specific political party, started telling their flocks to give them money to make themselves rich, (prosperity grifters) and began telling them for whom they should vote, they stopped having time for the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I grew up in a Southern Baptist church, and at 63 now, it seems the church started going strong into politics with the Reagan’s. And Nancy Reagan went to psychics and received tarot card readings.
And now more churches promote Trump and cry about LGBTQ+ than Christian teachings. That leaves Jesus out completely because there’s nothing in the New Testament that mentions homosexuality.
Now we have a Speaker who claims to be Moses and focuses on more on Jodi Hildebrandt type focus with his son than anything else.
Just saying. I remember when being kind and helping each other was more important than attacking the most vulnerable in our community.
Amen 🙏🏻 I was raised Baptist but am sda now
I wish every family was this kind and accepting ❤
I just came across your podcasts, my grandmother was part of a pioneer family, as was her husband's. In the 1940's she stood up in the temple, her grandfather helped design, and told the congregation that they were NOT following the true religion. The fall-out was immediate, dramatic, and multi-generational. It was not until the late 1990's that anyone would talk to my mother on her father's, and it was limited. My grandmother was remarkable for a Mormon woman (she had two Master's Degrees, spoke Spanish, played the piano and Irish bagpipes.) But not one family member helped when her husband beat her, the children, and they had no food or place to live. Finally, someone rented space 8n a basement to them. We have so many family stories written down, it is truly fabulous to read them - going back to the 1830's on onward as my family was in NY, Navoo, SLC and helped found many cities in Utah at the direction of the church - even though one man asked to please be allowed to stop settling new places as " he was too old and it would surely be the death of him." He went anyway. As a non-Mormon, I have found it amazing how much history the church has hidden, lied about, or just outright changed to suit their needs. I hear the stories on here and I just cannot fathom how people can blindly believe - but I remember they do not understand the beginnings of the church and what has gone on throughout the years. The Mormon Church is awesome at hiding the truth - example is why people had to submit their geneology five generations back - it was to prove they were white and Europeans - even a tiny bit of some other blood was not acceptable - but someone recently tried to tell me the Mormon Church has never been racist - that they were being cautious because of the political climate in the 1800's. The Mormons were far from anyone else for the majority of the 1800's and ruled Utah with an iron fist - if they could break federal and every "acceptable" religious laws (polygamy), kill other settlers who entered their territory, they could have easily have accepted the negros at the time and have protected them. Anyway, keep up the great work you are doing!
What an amazing story.. I would love to read more.
I think the leaders were understanding when I left. I was diagnosed with a mental illness. Also, my uncle was a lawyer, and was able to notarize my exit letter. (I was a convert). It was easy for me to make the transition out, because I remembered what it was like before I joined. And I found faith in mainstream Christianity, eventually.
I am so happy for you. It’s okay that you struggle but never allow that anyone to use that against you. I’m glad you found a happier place.
@malkiyahu Wow. My God doesn't need money or a hierarchy. If your religion has a business model it's not about God, it's about human greed and desire for power. I believe in GOD, not religion.
Me to.💯
I pray this helps also.
Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none
Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below:
No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth.
The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America.
The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence?
Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But:
THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool.
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25).
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors.
Bible:
The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC.
Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church.
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation.
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1
One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon.
Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie.
Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this.
Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened.
Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)?
Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)?
If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?
I’m CATHOLIC and I understand EVERY feeling that’s been described. You are saviors for us all
Well Catholicism is not a cult so I doubt it.
I love this , I've never been Mormon but I have had to deconstruct my own faith , the journey is so similar except I'm decades into it . I was a teenager when the Catholic Church was brought to it's knees in Ireland and the culture of shame was turned back on the church . I have no tolerance for any religion that keeps people in line through shame ..
This Mother’s love and respect for her children has been reciprocated by her entire family. When you love without limits or boundaries what else would you get in return but the same. Kudos
This two souls are the most beautiful woman’s who I have seen. They share the love and sad experiences. Definitely I was crying with them.
Thanks John to share something so precious with us.
They are one soul in love. ❤
I was a convert to the church in 1990 and left the church in 2001 after the death of my grandfather and for the same reason of never being able to reconcile the lack of acceptance of my best friend within the church because of who he loved or that my grandfather had done enough on this Earth as a good man to reach Heaven. Thank you Jill and Julie for sharing your story. One of my favorites of all! Thank you, once again, Mormon Stories!
So I left the church three years ago. My parent are hardcore TBM, I told them all the difficulties of my mission from years ago. I never enjoyed my mission that much and I wish that I had left a few months into my mission. To this day, I have very strict boundaries with my parents. We try and stay off the subject of religion. No religion, no politics, and NO relationship topics! It’s become healthier after that, they respect my individual choices and my desire to live life . I respect there decision to remain in the church.
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez Matthew 7:2
I think that what you are describing is 100% acceptable… Our world is changing so dramatically from one generation to the next… I am proud of you And your parents that you have decided that somehow you will continue your lives’ journeys together
Hello John and Margie! I’m a NeverMo and loyal listener. If I’m being honest, I didn’t enjoy Margie when I first found this RUclips channel (maybe 2 years ago?). I don’t know if I’ve evolved as a listener or Margie has grown as an interviewer, but she is now my favorite co-host. Her questions are very insightful and her compassion is heart warming. My sincere apologies for my initial judgement.
I wish I could get my TBM mom to listen to this! Having a gay brother who was so suicidal in the 90's before coming out. I know my mom would be able to relate to this mother.
Definitely one of my favorite Mormon Stories! Thank you so much for sharing your story.
I hope she watches it too. Any luck yet?
Not religious. Live in Sweden. Just believing in God. Been following your podcast for some years now. Totally fascinating. This one feels special. I've cried and cried.
This was intense. It makes me wish I wasn't the only one in my family to have left, I've felt very alone.
sending love❤❤❤
Don't give up on them. Send them the SEC letter maybe?
@@dobnerk I already tried showing them the problem with tscc. It left us with them more entrenched than ever and me suicidal.
@@Maryfs1 I'm so sorry to hear that and I empathize with you. I've had disconnection in my family, as well, and completely understand the sense of loneliness that comes from that loss. I'm hoping and praying you find people in your life who can fill that gap to some degree. This is why I'm almost obsessed with studying cults and high demand organizations. It's a huge issue that's not getting the attention it deserves. I wish you well!
I think they can learn something from you just living your life authentically, or at least that's what I hope for myself and my family.
I just wish they could see the truth about this cult that has been hurting our family for generations and continues to do so.
Both of these women talked about their constant desire, their need to be "good". Be a good kid, be a good wife, be a good missionary, a good member of the church. What strikes me is the love, patience and grace this family has given each other through this very difficult process. The measurement for the definition of "good" for them was determined by the church before. But obviously, they were already "good," or they wouldn't have come through this trial as well as they did. The love for each other existed before their faith chrisises, saw them through that difficult and trauamtic time, and really shines through with where they are at right now.
Thank you for this story. I am an ex mormon and wrote an article to keep young people for being deceived into joining the church. Thank you again.😢
We are so proud to have you in our family Julie, Jill and Durrants. You are all so brave and strong to navigate this. Please know our family is ALWAYS here for you. Much love, April
Beautiful podcast!
Thank you for sharing!
You're a sweet family!
I'm a X Mormon, Returned Missionary Mom who sent a daughter on a mission...once she got home, she's been frustrated and angry that I walked away.
I understand, but am hoping she will someday see my point of view.
This is sooo close to my own story. We left a year ago. Lost our faith 2 months before our oldest daughter came home from mission. I was the Primary President and 42 at the time. These are wonderful women and I'm so glad to hear other families that have made it through this.. it is not easy. We live in Orem and it is a lot better now, but I still feel like an outsider and like I've lost most of my friends.
Real friends don't leave you.
Yea, I can understand where you are coming from. When leaving the church. I think at times it can be like a grieving process for instance leaving your friends behind.
You lost faith in LDS, but did you repent of being a sinner and ask the true Lord Jesus Christ to save you to the uttermost??? If not, you are not going to heaven. Bad news and good news.
@@duststorm2699 your comment seems to condemn you . Who are you to judge anyone ? Oh ya you are nobody . But then how you judge others is how you will be judged so guess you will be seen in hell yourself lol.
Going bananas… I grew up in the Mormon culture….my world revolved around it….when I left I had no friends…I was so sad…. My heart was broken
Omgosh, this hits home, very similar story in our family. We left 10 years ago, our oldest has struggled with homosexuality too because of the brain washing she’s had since birth, she’s now 34 yrs . We could not would not choose a church over our beautiful Daughter. We have never looked back with any regrets for leaving. God bless you ladies for letting your story be heard to others whom my be struggling with their faith… I ❤ Mormon Stories!
❤
You do not have to choose the church of your child?? If you do then that is on you no one else or the church . That is on you . Many members have. Gay children . So what . They do big disown them . dTodd Christopher brother is gay . They still love and include him .
@@lindamartinez7006 I think the bigger question Linda is where does the LGBTQ community or members fit in with the church. Do they feel like they belong or accepted.
@@ExploreXplore394 if your child is gay so what Doctrine is not changing . But yes they are still loved . This lady does not understand how many members have this exact same heartache with their children . They do not cut their children off or the church . God makes his own ways . His own plans of salvation and exaltation which I feel is a perfect just plan . All will be happy in the end and comfortable to what degree they want and enjoy . I have children with some of these Beth same problems . So do many many people . Levi’s sons tired to kill him even and never believed their prophet father . So what . They also tried to kill their own brother also a prophet . This lady says she lived so righteously and was promised perfect children . That is a lie . She needs to study up on prophets themselves families . Jacob had mostly bad sons except for two . How does that make the church wrong . Many missionaries come home and leave . Elder David Bednar talks on that and gives the reason why . She also should go study the sower parable and the different kinds of ground and how they reacted to the seeds . Meaning same messages but all had different hearts . All receive a way better portion then here still . Maybe some do not understand that parable .
"Honor thy Mother and thy Father." One of the biggest reasons I struggle to tell my family about the struggle I am going through.
You honor them most when you show them your authentic self, and are open and honest with them.
Thank you Jill & Judy for coming on & sharing your story & family with us. I love how you recognize the immense amount of grace your gay daughter has for her family. She’s really amazing. You are all amazing. ❤️
I am so happy for this family. Love God and Jesus and have faith and that it. I am ex Mormon and love it.
I'm Exmo and you don't need to keep the delusions of an invisible man in the sky and supposed half mortal man who came from a supposed "virgin" birth! Origins of purity culture stem from the paternal religions if the past couple of thousand years.
Please allow yourself the space to question all religious beliefs through logic.❤
Go Mom! I’m so moved by their story and wish for this outcome for all!
I’ve opened up to my mom about my lost of faith and she cried her eyes out. It was the most painful look she gave me and it sucks that there will always be that barrier. But I’m just blown by the mother’s unconditional love, as it should be 😊
Ex Catholic here. I left when I was a teenager. Now a 50 year agnostic. I married an ex Mormon. She too left as a teen and became agnostic. All of our kids, all of our grandkids are free of religion. Our lives are so much simpler and authentic.
Its sad when the corruption of man alienates people from our Creator. Will pray for yall.
My parents were traumatized by Catholicism so I didn’t have to be 😅 my husband is ex Mormon. Our kids are toddlers but they will be free too.
@@Considerable_Ounce Do you know that agnostic doesn’t mean atheist?
Free of religion - AWESOME!! Closer to God/Yahweh - I sure hope so. Religion is man-made and most, if not all of them, are filled with false doctrine.
@@madisonrose1576 agnostic is believing that there might be a God. A "maybe" isnt a relationship.
I’ve listened to dozens if not hundreds of episodes and this one touched me the most. Loved it. Thank you for this.
I still can not get over that the church teaches truth and kept all this information from we the members. That is what really hurt me. The leaders dont like being called racist and bigoted, then dont act like it. I didnt realize a lot of the actions of the church.
It's a cult. They've been controlling people for generations. For greed, money and power.
The interview has been so helpful! Please let these beautiful ladies know how much they have helped. My son is on his mission right now, and I wasn’t able to tell him before he left. I wanted to support him. It feels like I will be a disappointment to him. But I want to be honest when he gets back. I do wonder if he doesn’t already know to a certain degree. Anyway, until then I won’t worry about it till he’s back. Who knows what the right thing is to do. Thank you for this interview.
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez, you are wrong! He is her son, and she is his mother. Any religion that separates a family is no religion !
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez Be a good boy and keep quiet.
So nice you may appreciate their story profoundlly.
I hope love and solidarity of family love rises above all things up to and including religion. The hypocrisy of a corporation that “serves God” to separate families not because there is abuse or crimes happening but because they chose a different path is heart shattering for all believers. You’ve got this!
You mentioned that Brad Wilcox was instrumental in pushing you out of the Church. I'd like to point out that the Brethren evidently decided that he is still in good standing after his famous talk. Wilcox was invited to offer a prayer in one of the sessions of the last General Conference. So there you have it. The Church had an opportunity to essentially say that Wilcox does not represent the kind of messaging we want to convey. Instead, they put him out there in the highest profile venue possibly. Noted.
100%
Brad Wilcox was in my ward when he was a teenager. He was very talented and a positive natural leader. I have watched him grow spiritually as an adult. I still highly admire him. He has a great, righteous spirit.
@@LucyLu-wj3vn To me the video of his fireside speaks for itself. No rumors or inuendo about BW necessary
when you have the video.
I have watched so many episodes of Mormon Stories and this is by far my favorite. Julie and Jill seem like some of the sweetest people put on this earth, the amount of love within that family truly gives me so much hope for the rest of the world. Absolutely beautiful story.
This story really drives home that love can and will get you through anything.
Wow what a lovely interview! This is one of those Mormon Stories where love and solidarity are so front and center. It was neat to see how this family came together and supported each other in new ways during each chapter. Definitely one I'll send to my family members if and when they have faith crises. Thank you Julie and Jill!!
Exactly what happened to my wife and I. 2015 I was losing my faith while my oldest daughter was preparing to serve a mission. I had resigned from my calling in the bishopric and was falling deep down the rabbit hole of history. My wife was still hanging on until our daughter left for her mission. All these years later and it is still a sensitive subject with our daughter. We formally resigned in 2017.
But did you find the truth in your Bible? Just leaving something is not enough. You don't seem to have the true joy of being a born again Christian. Have you replaced the false teaching with sound doctrine? Thanks
Non mormon here.
Love this heartfelt interview and love that Fitzgerald quote!
What an amazing story! I agree with you John. I think this is one of the best stories I’ve heard thus far. I’m an ex-Mormon, and my parents were converts, but they never quit smoking nor drinking coffee and tea. They were what they call Jack-Mormons in CA. They pretty much used the church when they were in need (mom’s mental illness and dad got cancer), so they didn’t have any deep roots in the church. I was a hit and miss Mormon but easily walked away when I was told to break up with my Catholic boyfriend (now my husband). I just can’t imagine being Julie and all she and her family went through. I just hope they remain happy and healthy. God bless them!
This is definitely my favorite interview so far. Thanks to Julie and Jill for sharing their story completely, without fear. It's hard to articulate what a high demand church/organization doe to people. The amazing thing is that their testimony about their journey was so weighty not because of how horrible their Mormon experience was as much as their happiness, joy and freedom from having left the church. Thanks to everyone for making this sharing experience happen.
I admire and respect this wonderful mother .
Not becoming "a robot" & taking care of yourself is so very important on a Mormon mission! I know I was getting quite burnt out near the end of my mission with my companion who was pushy with "following the rules."
So Susan, are you still a "robot" and "slave" to the Mormon Cult Church or not today??
One of the most inspiring stories I've heard. My sincerest congratulations that you could overcome so much.
When Margi mentioned depression for moms because they carry the weight, that is true. I did everything the church asked. I certainly was not perfect. Our boys fought church since they were young. To the point that some of them were completely different people when they were at church. This has definitely put my mental health in a place it has never been in. Because I feel like it is all my fault, and I have failed as a mom.
You were a good mother. Their choices are no longer your responsibility. You do need to trust the true Jesus of the Bible, who is much different from the Mormon Jesus. Read the books of John and Romans in your King James Bible.
This is such a great family. This interview was just incredible. I’d like to add the remaining family members to the discussion. This was a long interview… nearly 4 hours.. and still it wasn’t long enough.
Oh wow these are two very special ladies. This interview hit different. I can feel their love.
Such a beautiful episode of very real human experiences. I appreciate these so much and have found a lot of comfort in hearing from others who have walked through this journey. It has helped me to know I’m not alone. One thing that stood out to me here is that they worked to not let the church stand between them and their closest loved ones. I’ve seen so many damaged relationships in the name of the church and instead of bringing families closer, it has driven a wedge.
Beautiful story. I cried a few times listening to their stories. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story.
Thank you so much Julie and Jill for sharing your beautiful story ❤❤
I can’t help but feel very proud of these people for being devoted to having a loving family… I recognize how special and inspiring their story is …. such a complex problem, but they overcame the difficulties, and everyone knows that he/she matters….. Mom is powerhouse and I love the way her goal is always to be 100% honest….. she made me laugh when she said no one could do it better than she has(meaning raising her children)…. By the video’s end, she has proven herself to be someone that we all could/should try to model ourselves after. I am definitely going to try. I’m saving the video to be able to revisit it… Good luck to these special people in the future.
Excellent interview!!! I hope you make a short of the part where Jill tells about her brother Tom explaining that the church worked for him and gave him many opportunities as a white, heterosexual male but he decided it wasn’t right to continue benefitting from his place of privilege when others were being hurt by being excluded.
It was a powerful, gut punch moment in the interview!
Marine, I thought the same thing.
Really loved this episode. So relatable in every way, especially when Julie described her guilt for not leaving the church sooner when she realized it was harming her LGBT daughter and how it still took several more years; this was also my experience and I live with that guilt, too. Would also love more stories about navigating relationships with adult TBM children.
Started loosing my testimony when my daughter was on her mission and I was called to teach early morning seminary in Texas.
I feel your pain. Teaching seminary tests anyone's faith.
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez Scott is smarter than you are.
The end of this story is making me cry - such a wonderful experience 😢
I felt so much compassion for mom when she said she had such relief and joy when she left the mormon church, because how sad living with that pressure and obsession. My faith in Jesus has freed me and given me true joy, even through the trials of life. I hope her family finds that.
I have never heard a mormon story that I related with so much. Thank you to all of you for sharing this. I feel your hearts so much. My daughter was on a mission when I left too. I read the CES letter. Holland's talk was it for me. I took down all my pictures all around my house that day, sold them and donated to proceeds to Latter Gay Stories.
Good for you! We are not alone.
These two opened my heart and there is just love pouring out!
I love this Mormon story. What a great mother and daughter. I can see the love in both of them
Will be a good one. We left as well as our son was 6 months into his 2 yr mission. Super painful for us as his mission pres said not to talk to us about our decision and why. Brutal. So he obeyed.
That's part of the social bubble members live in, TBMs or not. It is easier to follow the path than use rational thinking.
So much love for this family! Tom…please run for President. ❤
I’m just in the process of joining the LDS church, I wasapproached by missionaries. At first I was very eager however at that time I was in such a low place been suffering with my mental health extremely bad I had attempted to take my own life, been diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety disorder , I was going through a court case regarding historical SA I had experienced, and just before my court case I split with my husband it was an extremely traumatic and painful split, I thought all the attention I was getting from the church was a warm and comforting place and now I don’t know how I feel. I am so very confused I loved your video and although it has made me think hard I know don’t know how i feel or what to do. 😢🙏🏽🥺thank you for sharing and this Mom and Daughter are so inspiring. Those last few words “don’t stop believing “ is like a double edged sword to me 🥺
Thank you Julie and Jill for sharing your story. We are so happy for your family! My wife and I loved this interview and feel the same happiness after leaving the church. This was one of the best episodes yet!
Watching this as a follower of Jesus. I see divine intervention in your family 💜
What a great interview! Thank you to Julie and Jill for sharing your story.
I wish this family every happiness.
They are wonderful.
What a GREAT mom you are! Love & acceptance! Wow!
This is the most beautiful story of love and family ❤ while I was listening, the religion fell away and the story of what a I believe is True family touched my heart in a way that opened my heart more .
Thank you All for such an inspiring example for us all.
I stumbled upon this channel by “accident “ and I look forward to exploring further.
I have lived in Utah my whole life and was raised Mormon until I was 10 53 years ago and when my family left the church back then, lots of my friends couldn’t play with me etc.
I have held resentment towards the church my whole life and working on forgiveness for all.
Much Love
This is SUCH an important podcast for helping many people. I have watched probably 100 hours of skillful moderators allowing individuals to reveal their stories. It has had quite an impact on me.
Now 72, and a scientist, I’ve pursued a strong sense of inquiry into science, spirituality, personal development. I engage with many Christians but my core focus has been secular Buddhism. Your guest Brittney Hartley now has opened the door to secular spirituality for me, most profound.
Thank you both so much for your perspectives.
Love Julie’s heart and her daughter Jill is so precious. What an awesome story.
I still have tears this was an amazing story I am in the same place that Julie was in She gives me strength to find my way
One of my favorite stories! You both are amazing women! Thank you for sharing the quote by Scott Fitzgerald. I will be framing that quote in my home ❤️ So Proudly Powerful!
What incredible women. Grateful they shared their story and so happy for them! ❤
Thank you, Julie and Jill. And Margi and John for the most tender and impactful of podcasts episodes. There is no way to recap all of the meaningful insights from this interview. What a guide for the ups and downs of parenting and families. It is not easy. My heart is full for the happiness and hope that I feel for a wonderful family. And thanks Julie for being a Young Women leader who meant a lot to my daughters.
That was a very engging story. I popped it on and worked my night around listening to it. Really good story, a lesson in love and acceptance. Five stars.
Thanks for listening
Julie Durrant! My great, great, great grandpa was George D Watt, as well! We are relatives. 💗 I resigned last year. I’d like to think he’d be proud of us since he died an ex-communicated member.
Such a heartfelt episode...I cried the whole time.
I seriously cried 99% of this interview! Sending love to you all! Thanks for being so open and sincere with all of us.
So good to hear about. She's closer in age to my age than my parents, but it helps me understand my dad. My dad's mom worked, so he wanted a woman who would be there to raise the children.. Not work outside the home. I am so grateful for my mom being there. & my dad providing.. My mom helped with earning money sometimes, but mostly focused on raising us.
Wonderful interview! Thank you MS for introducing us to these amazing women. This one was very meaningful for me, so many families feel the need to choose between a gay child and their religion. It should not be so! The choice was obvious for me, but it is a painful process. I will not support an institution that finances opposition of my own children's marriage choices. Having ancient leadership is at the crux of it.
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez When it comes to losing your faith in the Mormon Cult Church, it is always amazing because one has broken the brainwashing of the Mormon Cult Religion. That is something you can't say about yourself there Miguel, huh???
Wow, excellent podcast!!! Thank you Julie and Jill for sharing your marvellous example of unconditional love!
This one made me cry a lot. The love here is so real and so beautiful. This family really cares about each other, and they all found their way to a place of harmony because they took the time to love, respect, and understand each other through each of their journeys. And damn, this mom and this family know how to be LGBTQ allies like no one I've ever encountered. The way they speak so highly of their sister...y'all are wonderful and this episode was good feelings all the way through. Thank you!
One of the most beautiful Mormon Stories episodes I’ve watched. Thanks for sharing!
❤It is one of the best!
I am an X-Mormon, I serve a mission, my daughter served as missionary in Spain. I had a lot questions and was told I shouldn't question anything about the Church. I know that is wrong wrong
@Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez It is called "common sense", Miguel. There is no need for Brent to pray/enquire about it because God give us a BRAIN TO USE instead of praying/enquire to a Mormon God who is racists! Brent used his BRAIN to determine what is right and wrong...DUHHH!
That title explains exactly what happened to me on my mission with my parents
Did you stay out or go home?
My title would be this: When your child's a mormon missionary and you don't tell him his grandmother died until a year later when he gets home.
@@thelastgoonie6555wow.
@@Revbone450 I completed my entire 18-month mission. I found out about my parents leaving a year into the mission. That was almost 2 years ago when I found out about my parents leaving.
@@delight743 Have you now left too?
So very, very powerful. Thank you! Over-arching confirmation is that organized spirituality / religion creates more problems than it solves.
how many tears have i shed listening, especially during these 4 hours of MS?
my eyes are raw...
but my heart is lighter.
I have ALWAYS been an all inclusive, all accepting kind a gal who calls herself a Christian (many others may not agree)...I have lost almost every member of my family for standing up, for and against....
mostly on behalf of others...and increasingly for myself.
I don't feel as alone when I listen to these beautiful conversations and journey's of those I may never know....
i found MS a soothing way to connect my struggles with those open enough to share...
I cry a lot....and I was never a mormon...
I find it a wonderful way to find company as I struggle to find rest for my body and soul.
thank you.
deeply🙏🏽🥰😭