Lithium hydroxide and such from the battery is a base. WD40 is an oil (or fat). Mixing a fat with a base induces saponification which is the conversion of an oil to a soap.
Aren't those lithium thionyl chloride batteries? And that is super reactive and corrosive (very toxic also), forming sulfur dioxide and hydrochloric acid when contacting water. In that case acid fumes and chlorine compounds would cause the corrosion over the time as battery slowly leaks. Edit: These are defensively not your lithium-ion rechargeables or coin cells. Amount of raw lithium would not be sufficient to produce enough LiOH to cause that kind of corrosion.
Adrian: my uncle used to repair TV's and he had a mirror on the wall to see what was happening on the screen. He also had a small neon lamp epoxied to a plastic bic pen that he used to check if there was high voltage at various places.
@@josecarlosxyz It can detect high frequency AC only, as it ionizes the gas charge inside through capacitive coupling (neon lamps can be lit up with DC as well, one of their electrode will glow, but this requires direct galvanic connection, not just proximity). So you can't detect a charged-up CRT with it, it's just a crude, but working way to determine if the flyback is generating high voltage or not.
Using a neon lamp can be VERY dangerous for measuring high voltage. This was a popular trick in the 60s up to the mid 1990s, as companies put neon lamps in screwdrivers. A dedicated high voltage meter will do you much better than a lamp that might kill you if it ever experiences a failure.
Definitely an cap ESR problem on that Classic power supply. Interesting the WD-40 did an OK job on that corroded Classic motherboard, although there's still some tin on a few IC legs that looks suspect. I would hit it with some white vinegar and see how that affects it. When I've used it on corroded boards in the past, it's brought the corroded pins up to a shiny silver after a little scrubbing with a toothbrush (at least the ones that it hadn't eaten the tin off anyway). I do agree it's not worth trying to fix it since you've got other Classics. But personally if it were the only one I had, I'd probably give the repair a go (I'm a sucker for that sort of thing). I'm just super lucky my Classic II and SE/30 were both working perfectly when I got them, and completely corrosion free. Not even the slightest hint of leaky caps. Not sure about the history of the SE/30, but my Classic II appears to have originally come from a university geology department. Came with one of those big carry bags (a beautiful red one!), so I'm guessing it was a field unit that didn't get a lot of use. Anyway, after seeing what a battery can do, I'm definitely going to pop them both open and remove their batteries!
I used to component level repair these back in the day (1990s!). Sadly I threw out my CRT rejuvenator and Fluke high voltage probe. I still have desolder templates I made (for the high voltage board - I routinely re-capped!) - I had it down to a fine art (even if I do say so myself!). Each template had cutouts for components to desolder based on the fault. Yes, I repaired that many of them! A few things I would recommend - don't become complacent when working on mains voltage. You should get into the habit of keeping one hand by your side (or in your pocket) when working on live mains - never use both hands when working on live equipment. Also it's always a good idea to stand up and have a clear area behind you when working on live mains powered circuits. Most times you might just get a zing, but it's that one time that'll get you!
So sad those tools are gone. The templates sound like a good idea if you’re doing a lot of these though. Very neat! I got a zap from the main input caps while working on the Mac + last night. The bleeder resistor is open on that board :-)
@@adriansdigitalbasement Like I say - you should never become complacent around mains powered equipment. If your heart is healthy those little discharges act as a good reminder!
You can get a blacklight flashlight to shine at the screen to check for burn-in. The blacklight excites the screen phosphor and makes them glow as if the screen was on. Works great on monochrome CRTs. Very cool effect.
WD 40 is designed to remove corrosion and dissolves adhesives so no surprise there. Have used a similar products on a battery corroded circuit board and it really helped clean it up.
@@kalijasin It's nice to neutralize the alkaline. All of it. Vinegar cleans up a heavily corroded board very nicely. I don't think that it would do much with the baked-on gunk this board had, but follow up the WD-40 with a vinegar bath to make sure that you have neutralized all of the alkaline, that would work. But I've only come across one board that even approached this level of damage, a XT (or 286, I can't remember) card for an Amiga 4000. And 5% vinegar is a weak acid. It takes a very long time to do any appreciable damage. I soak mine until the green corrosion turns to blue, and the bubbling stops. At that point the corrosion is soft and has loosened up. I take an old electric toothbrush to the board to clean it off. But use whatever works for you. I've done 2 A4000s, 2 A2000s, 2 Speccys, and 6 A500 memory expansion boards this way, and all of them have come out looking shiny and new, with no problems whatsoever. I follow up the vinegar bath with a rinse from the outside faucet, shake them off really well, and then it's off to an alcohol bath to "soak up" any remaining water. During this bath, I scrub them again to get rid of any flux. And it's not like these boards weren't washed at the factory. And here is how board repair shops do it: ruclips.net/video/j-IE9nT5AzA/видео.html Note the 500 volt fuses on the board. If it's fine for this, I'm pretty sure our piddly 12 volt circuits are going to be just fine.
I think we've all been there. The "I could fix this, but the amount of work just isn't worth it..." If you're the wild sort that ever gets a hankering for a hardcore corrosion repair session, an Amiga 2000 will give you much more challenge and a much greater reward. Brilliant video as always sir, rock on!
Great video Adrian. At 19:59, 500mA of ripple!!! 500mV of ripple, easily done. When you replace the other electrolytics, after powering up, check what the actual voltages on the capacitors are. 10V rating is unusual, it usually means that they were fitted for a price and size and you may have 7 or 8 volts on them. If so change them for 16V capacitors, the modern type should fit easily. The 10V rating is just a precise as the capacitance. Capacitance typically 20%. google electrolytic capacitor tolerance Voltage typically -50% to +100%. google electrolytic capacitor voltage tolerance If you look at the lead end of one of those capacitors you should see a tiny hole, this is to release any pressure build up and when there is a failure, let the electrolyte out.
2:00 I had a classic i got from a friend with similar battery/explosion on it.... I have two Classic I's right now, and the electrolytic caps just fell off the board. i scrubbed it with vinegar, which helped clean it up quite a bit. I have a Classic II which looked okay, btu gets the same dim screen as you saw last episode. Think i'm gonna just replace all of the caps, and soak it in vinegar.
That was very impressive what WD40 made with that oxidation. It seemed even better than using vinegar, much better. First time I see that. Wonderful work there, thanks for the video !
@Adrian, I have a few classic Mac's of this vintage (LC II and LC III's) and they will not display any picture without a lithium battery installed. You may have a similar issue with your Classic II board. *I paused at 14:45 to comment. Perhaps you've discovered this later in the video.
The motherboard clean up was really interesting. If it has eaten the tin coated IC legs, then it does make sense it would eat the tin from the solder. I think it is best as an organ doner now to keep more healthy machines running for year to come
Wow what an mess on that board! Recently opened my Commodore Amiga 500 to check how's the components inside. Found a Rubycon cap which had started leaking that brown stuff under it. It's one of those 10V 3300Uf caps so ordered two new ones which arrived yesterday. My Amiga was manufactured I think in 12/1990 and have had it since new. So far haven't had to do any repairs it until now...
@@jaycee1980, it indeed is right in front of the video output components. I even have a pic of it: flic.kr/p/2iWkKEK There's that brown goo under it and if you look the reflection at the RF shield, it's visible at the backside too. That would be a relief if it's just a glue. Did they use glue just for this one cap and not to the other similar big cap next to it? After this pic, I putted my Amiga back together with these caps still in there, it starts and works normally. Would it work if one of these biggest caps on the motherboard were blown?
@@adriansdigitalbasement Well, yes I tried on NiCD and it worked great so your WD40 for lithium is a great addition to everyday electronic tips and tricks.
Watching your first video inspired me to pull out a mac classic II that has been sitting in the basement, the battery hadn't leaked yet, but the caps had. But the real issues was in the analog board caps, exact same ones as yours I suspect! FYI definately replace the one that is the exact same size as the bad one you pulled, and the two blue caps at the edge in that cluster, all 4 of those went bad from the machine just sitting there, but all the others were perfectly fine from an ESR and capacity standpoint. I tested them with my 'Anatek Blue ESR Meter' and DMM. The mid-size brown ones, like the one you pulled, measured in at 10 ohms ESR alone, which is terrible. The blue ones measured in around 1 Ohm ESR which is also still bad enough, all the others in the area were ~0.14 Ohm ESR. One thing I have not figured out yet is why the voltage slowly drifts up, I feel like the more I turned the mac on the better this became, HDD would spin reliably, etc. Also there is a 12v adjustment hidden where the wire loom bundle hits the board... it took me... ages to realize where this was even when others talking about it! 5v output is slaved to the 12v regulation and they are proportional. 5v needs to be at least 4.85, to get there 12v can be a bit higher than 12v, but if you run 12v past 15% you will trip the crowbar circuit and it will trip off until adjusted down. Try to let the system stabilize before tweaking the adjustment for this(also be wary of how close to the CRT tube you need to get your hands), hope this helps! lots of google searches on my adventure.
You’d be amazed at what some vinegar and scrubbing will do to that board I thought my se was toast but cleaning up and new caps works like a charm and mine was almost the whole board covered in that crusty crap
I saw a very similar behavior to that corrotion recently while fixing a graphics card for my retro gaming PC. While most of the caps leaked, the electrolyte on one specific type had the same effect on the solder. It literally fell off and left the bare copper pads, so I could solder new caps and revive the card.
Looking forward to seeing you troubleshoot the Mac Plus. I have a Mac 128k that was upgraded to a Plus that has the exact same symptom and I haven't been able to fix it.
Reminds me of the repair I did for a customer... Laptop was left in the bathtub for an hour or two and then left to dry for a month... Internal battery was never disconnected I actually got the piece of crap working again, the corrosion was a horror show
Hi Adrian! I would be cool to see the corroded chips decapped (curiousmarc recently showed how to do it easily and without chemicals). I believe that you would see corrosion even inside the package.
Please, even if you do know exactly the safety implications of directly touching unknown chemicals with your bare skin (i.e. the lithium battery contents, the electrolyte from the capacitors), try to wear some sort of gloves. Not only for the message you spread by directly touching things you refer to with words such as "gunk" and "fluffy stuff", but also because we love your videos and would very much like to see more of them without any skin conditions!
A good concern but capacitor guts will at worst cause mild irritation until you wash it off. The same goes for the worst of battery contents - The age alone has weakened them significantly and even when they were new they were not particularly dangerous. Check some MSDS files!
This reminded me to finally crack open my mac classic... luckily the original 1991 battery despite being dead hadn't leaked but noticed minor grime around caps do did the isopropyl clean to play it safe (it still works all 4mb ram and all when assembled).
One of the computers I grew up with was an SE/30, so I have a lot of nostalgia for this style of Mac. If you end up with a spare chassis by the end of this, I'd VERY much like to buy it off of you so I can do a mini-itx build in it. Basically, I'm after a machine that's beyond repair but has a decent shell.
If you put an LCD in it then *please* try to make it look decent Just plopping an LCD in without accounting for the curved CRT bezel just makes things look bad.
Great repairs. You have lot more skill and time/patience to fix these than I do... I think I did a few cap replacement on LCD TVs, but that's about as far as I go to fix electronics...
Great video Adrian, thank you! You should do a collab with Nile Red on how to better dilute those chemicals and leave the board in the best possible state! Keep up the great content!
I haven't completely ruled that out. I still have all the parts it needs -- I did some more investigation and there is so much damage because the vias are bad now. For now I put it aside to work on other stuff. :-)
@@adriansdigitalbasement I'll join the camp of really wanting to see you repair it. Make it a pet project! Give it it's own series. Maybe go over the top and turn it into a steam punk mod! I'd love to see all the bodge wires going all over the place and see it turn on and work in the end. The pay off would be nuts!
For number 5, take a hot air gun and remove all of the chips and put them in a static bags and get rid of the MB. wouldn't even take the chips around the leaked area. The material may have crept in to the chip and will be a time bomb later. A trick that old TV techs used to do is to have a mirror on the wall opposite of the screen when you are working on one. That way you can see the picture tube.
I think the battery diodes are actually there so that when you turn the power on it doesn't try to charge the battery. Though I suppose backwards installation protection might be a plus.
Oh man, return of the Maxell Battery Bomb. Maxell must have made a bad battery line there because most of the nuked Mac motherboards I have seen all had a Red Maxell battery. Anyway, great video series, I am liking it!
Like your videos, keep them up!!! Would be safe for you to ground these CRTs before working on them or let viewers to understand the dangers of these CRTs. Add a 10MOhm resistor to your lead. I did burn a good digital board once by grounding the CRT without resistance. And will definitively try the WD40 or fats to convert the electrolytes.
Can't say I've ever seen WD40 used like that, interesting cleaning effect there, I never use the stuff as it's never done what I needed it to (like, lubrication, it just evaporates and leaves parts squeaky again!), seeing other comments on a reaction between the battery juice and WD40 turning it into a soap though, that's pretty interesting...
WD40 will dissolve metal just a little bit. Someone with an antique clock way back once told me that it was a lubricant they had to avoid because it would alter the metal parts.
For picks, you might want to ask your dentist for some used dental picks. They are thinner than your pick and therefore more suitable for this task. Why not give the board to someone who can make the board work? There are fewer of those each year, and that might be what someone wants for a project.
Channel Plan C did work on a -Amiga 500- with serious battery damage. Bad traces, vias, many bodge wires quite a far gone motherboard, I think it was worst off than this mac classic but he did it, and it worked. My bet is on that Mac making a come back after good clean-up, re-cap and some bodge wires. That would be a restoration video worth watching in my books. Correction:- Plan C repair was on a Acorn A3000 not Amiga 500 as I stated.
I'm seriously thinking about making replacement boards for Classic, Color Classic, SE, SE/30, FDHD, Classic II as well as PSU boards. Some of the chips are unobtaniums. I'd like to have hires images of the boards (sans components) so if you were willing to desolder everything off the corroded board and send me pics and I will see what I can do. I also looked for part numbers of the yellow SOIC tantalums. I do have several MC68030FC16B's and MC68000FN8's.
hey, Adrian can you do a maxed out color classic? I had one and couldn't keep it. I would love to see how it could be maxed out in today's day and possibly get one to do the same. Thank You!
Adrian's Digital Basement: Nice video, as always. :-) But could you show notices you add at post production for a longer time? I'm barely able (may be because I am not a native English speaker) to read them before they are gone.
Hey Adrian, where were these Macs assembled? I wonder if different factories used different brands of batteries. It seems that Maxells are the only ones that exploded, the Sonnenschein and Tadiran batteries I've also seen used in these seem fine, so if different factories happen to have stuck with certain battery brands, it might be a good indicator on whether or not it's going to be a mess inside.
I'd legit take that board off your hands and pay to do so! Sprint layout awaits - the more of these we can get, the more likely a repro board will appear :D
In the majority of cases, normal ethanol will do the job just fine. IPA is a strong solvent than ethanol, but ethanol is strong enough to dissolve most things you use alcohol for, such as cleaning soldering flux.
I buy in 2L or 5L bottles, save money that way.... unless you do that too and just happen to need your refill now? Which would suck. Maybe you use a lot more than me too.
Are any of these Classic II's? Do you know the keyboard combo to press at start to display the picture of the dev team stored in ROM? Also don't forget to use the Command-Option-X-O combo at startup to boot from ROM - it makes it the fastest machine ever! (I could press the keys to send a print job and have the printer almost print before the screen warmed up!) I may have to start making some RUclips videos of my own! I still have a shed full of old kit (I donated all my Apple ][ kit to a local museum, still got all my 68k to G4 kit though, I'm only missing about 4 models in the 68k range!).
Another great video, Adrian! By the way, I was wondering about your opinion on "polymodding", or the replacing of electrolitic capacitors with more modern polymer capacitors. Purists might argue that that would not be era-appropriate for retro hardware, but given how much of a bane those leak-prone original capacitors have proven to be to retro and vintage hardware, plus the fact that polymer capacitors are not only leak-proof, but also have a considerably longer operating life, wouldn't that make those recommandable for the long term preservation of vintage hardware? Also, will you be using polymer capacitors as part of your repair works on these Macs? I understand polymer capacitors are not suitable for use in power supplies, but would work fine as replacement capacitors in the logic boards, right? I'm not an expert in these matters, so anybody feel free to correct me if I am basing these questions/suggestions on incorrect information. Thanks. Keep 'em coming, Adrian! 🙂
The polymer cap thing is pretty insane. Sure they are better quality capacitors overall, but they are not a panacea. We dont know what their failure mode is going to be in 30 years. The main issue with SMD electrolytics was poor sealings which is what causes the leakage - this has now largely been resolved so good quality SMD electrolytics are a perfectly sane choice.
I found my dads old windows for workgroups 3.11 (I know it ran Windows for workgroups 3.11 because I have a complete set of all 8 3.5 inch floppy disks, the lithium battery somehow didn't leak AT ALL, I have it and not a single speck of corrosion on that long dead non-rechargeable lithium battery.
Always 14 thumbs down, weird. And I think if the board is in such a bad shape, just scrap for the components to repair others. I just repaired my //c, learn a lot from Adrian, thanks.
Thank you Apple for using lithium cells! Or else we wouldnt have these great videos😅 Ever figured how live would be without WD40? That stuf is amazing. Please make more repair videos👍 (less Apple haha)
@@adriansdigitalbasement I ask because I have one but I need to get a monitor for it. The bad part is that the monitor is proprietary and powered by the computer it's self.
I appreciate the enthusiasm and technical skill but just wondering what one would use these obsolete computers for? Sure, they engender a feeling of nostalgia but aren't they essentially giant paperweights with zero practical purpose?
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Lithium hydroxide and such from the battery is a base. WD40 is an oil (or fat). Mixing a fat with a base induces saponification which is the conversion of an oil to a soap.
So it's basically reacting and turning into soap? Interesting.
It's make sense :D
Yeah, he made lithium soap!
Jason Downs real gamers wash their bodies with lithium soap
Aren't those lithium thionyl chloride batteries? And that is super reactive and corrosive (very toxic also), forming sulfur dioxide and hydrochloric acid when contacting water. In that case acid fumes and chlorine compounds would cause the corrosion over the time as battery slowly leaks.
Edit: These are defensively not your lithium-ion rechargeables or coin cells. Amount of raw lithium would not be sufficient to produce enough LiOH to cause that kind of corrosion.
Adrian: my uncle used to repair TV's and he had a mirror on the wall to see what was happening on the screen. He also had a small neon lamp epoxied to a plastic bic pen that he used to check if there was high voltage at various places.
François Laverdure the neon thing looks very smart because big capacitors can retain tons of voltage
@@josecarlosxyz It can detect high frequency AC only, as it ionizes the gas charge inside through capacitive coupling (neon lamps can be lit up with DC as well, one of their electrode will glow, but this requires direct galvanic connection, not just proximity). So you can't detect a charged-up CRT with it, it's just a crude, but working way to determine if the flyback is generating high voltage or not.
Using a neon lamp can be VERY dangerous for measuring high voltage. This was a popular trick in the 60s up to the mid 1990s, as companies put neon lamps in screwdrivers.
A dedicated high voltage meter will do you much better than a lamp that might kill you if it ever experiences a failure.
I keep coming back to these videos for three reasons. Leaky caps, leaky batteries, and that intro scene.
Unbelievably dust free in all six machines. Wow!!
Great piece of history
It’s good to see someone who really understand he’s doing working
Definitely an cap ESR problem on that Classic power supply.
Interesting the WD-40 did an OK job on that corroded Classic motherboard, although there's still some tin on a few IC legs that looks suspect. I would hit it with some white vinegar and see how that affects it. When I've used it on corroded boards in the past, it's brought the corroded pins up to a shiny silver after a little scrubbing with a toothbrush (at least the ones that it hadn't eaten the tin off anyway). I do agree it's not worth trying to fix it since you've got other Classics. But personally if it were the only one I had, I'd probably give the repair a go (I'm a sucker for that sort of thing).
I'm just super lucky my Classic II and SE/30 were both working perfectly when I got them, and completely corrosion free. Not even the slightest hint of leaky caps. Not sure about the history of the SE/30, but my Classic II appears to have originally come from a university geology department. Came with one of those big carry bags (a beautiful red one!), so I'm guessing it was a field unit that didn't get a lot of use.
Anyway, after seeing what a battery can do, I'm definitely going to pop them both open and remove their batteries!
I used to component level repair these back in the day (1990s!). Sadly I threw out my CRT rejuvenator and Fluke high voltage probe. I still have desolder templates I made (for the high voltage board - I routinely re-capped!) - I had it down to a fine art (even if I do say so myself!). Each template had cutouts for components to desolder based on the fault. Yes, I repaired that many of them! A few things I would recommend - don't become complacent when working on mains voltage. You should get into the habit of keeping one hand by your side (or in your pocket) when working on live mains - never use both hands when working on live equipment. Also it's always a good idea to stand up and have a clear area behind you when working on live mains powered circuits. Most times you might just get a zing, but it's that one time that'll get you!
So sad those tools are gone. The templates sound like a good idea if you’re doing a lot of these though. Very neat! I got a zap from the main input caps while working on the Mac + last night. The bleeder resistor is open on that board :-)
@@adriansdigitalbasement Like I say - you should never become complacent around mains powered equipment. If your heart is healthy those little discharges act as a good reminder!
You can get a blacklight flashlight to shine at the screen to check for burn-in. The blacklight excites the screen phosphor and makes them glow as if the screen was on. Works great on monochrome CRTs. Very cool effect.
Mac! The hardware was SO much better because they used only the finest components! How many times did I hear this in the day? Sheesh.
WD 40 is designed to remove corrosion and dissolves adhesives so no surprise there. Have used a similar products on a battery corroded circuit board and it really helped clean it up.
Good to know! I recall using it years ago to remove some rust from chrome so I tried it here.
Adrian's Digital Basement 🙂
Try vinegar for some of that corrosion. I've had a lot of good luck with that bringing 486 boards back to life.
It's what I do, and it works great. But I'm pretty impressed with what WD40 can do.
WD-40 was basically made for this. It was first designed as a water displacer and corrosion inhibitor.
Why? Wd40 working perfect.
I too use the vinegar trick. Works great. I was surprised by wd-40 though
@@kalijasin It's nice to neutralize the alkaline. All of it. Vinegar cleans up a heavily corroded board very nicely. I don't think that it would do much with the baked-on gunk this board had, but follow up the WD-40 with a vinegar bath to make sure that you have neutralized all of the alkaline, that would work. But I've only come across one board that even approached this level of damage, a XT (or 286, I can't remember) card for an Amiga 4000.
And 5% vinegar is a weak acid. It takes a very long time to do any appreciable damage. I soak mine until the green corrosion turns to blue, and the bubbling stops. At that point the corrosion is soft and has loosened up. I take an old electric toothbrush to the board to clean it off.
But use whatever works for you. I've done 2 A4000s, 2 A2000s, 2 Speccys, and 6 A500 memory expansion boards this way, and all of them have come out looking shiny and new, with no problems whatsoever. I follow up the vinegar bath with a rinse from the outside faucet, shake them off really well, and then it's off to an alcohol bath to "soak up" any remaining water. During this bath, I scrub them again to get rid of any flux.
And it's not like these boards weren't washed at the factory.
And here is how board repair shops do it:
ruclips.net/video/j-IE9nT5AzA/видео.html
Note the 500 volt fuses on the board. If it's fine for this, I'm pretty sure our piddly 12 volt circuits are going to be just fine.
I think we've all been there. The "I could fix this, but the amount of work just isn't worth it..." If you're the wild sort that ever gets a hankering for a hardcore corrosion repair session, an Amiga 2000 will give you much more challenge and a much greater reward.
Brilliant video as always sir, rock on!
Great video Adrian.
At 19:59, 500mA of ripple!!! 500mV of ripple, easily done.
When you replace the other electrolytics, after powering up, check what the actual voltages on the capacitors are.
10V rating is unusual, it usually means that they were fitted for a price and size and you may have 7 or 8 volts on them.
If so change them for 16V capacitors, the modern type should fit easily.
The 10V rating is just a precise as the capacitance.
Capacitance typically 20%. google electrolytic capacitor tolerance
Voltage typically -50% to +100%. google electrolytic capacitor voltage tolerance
If you look at the lead end of one of those capacitors you should see a tiny hole, this is to release any pressure build up and when there is a failure, let the electrolyte out.
2:00 I had a classic i got from a friend with similar battery/explosion on it.... I have two Classic I's right now, and the electrolytic caps just fell off the board. i scrubbed it with vinegar, which helped clean it up quite a bit. I have a Classic II which looked okay, btu gets the same dim screen as you saw last episode. Think i'm gonna just replace all of the caps, and soak it in vinegar.
That was very impressive what WD40 made with that oxidation. It seemed even better than using vinegar, much better. First time I see that. Wonderful work there, thanks for the video !
@Adrian, I have a few classic Mac's of this vintage (LC II and LC III's) and they will not display any picture without a lithium battery installed. You may have a similar issue with your Classic II board. *I paused at 14:45 to comment. Perhaps you've discovered this later in the video.
Adrian, white wine vinegar will neutralize rust and battery acid more than WD40. Try that once the board is completely cleaned.
Repairing the vias might be a bigger issue. Not sure if those are filled or not.
The motherboard clean up was really interesting. If it has eaten the tin coated IC legs, then it does make sense it would eat the tin from the solder. I think it is best as an organ doner now to keep more healthy machines running for year to come
Wow what an mess on that board!
Recently opened my Commodore Amiga 500 to check how's the components inside. Found a Rubycon cap which had started leaking that brown stuff under it. It's one of those 10V 3300Uf caps so ordered two new ones which arrived yesterday. My Amiga was manufactured I think in 12/1990 and have had it since new. So far haven't had to do any repairs it until now...
If it was next to the video hybrid, it's not leaking - that's glue used to fix the capacitor down. Best removed though
@@jaycee1980, it indeed is right in front of the video output components.
I even have a pic of it:
flic.kr/p/2iWkKEK
There's that brown goo under it and if you look the reflection at the RF shield, it's visible at the backside too.
That would be a relief if it's just a glue. Did they use glue just for this one cap and not to the other similar big cap next to it?
After this pic, I putted my Amiga back together with these caps still in there, it starts and works normally. Would it work if one of these biggest caps on the motherboard were blown?
Whenever I watch these, the Sisters of Mercy starts playing in my head.
"Hey now, hey now now... Sing this corrosion to me..."
Another great video. Next time, try white vinegar for the battery leak, it is making quite a chemical reaction that has great cleaning effect.
I actually tried it but no effect. It works well on NiCD leakage but seems lithium leakage wasn't reactive with it.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Well, yes I tried on NiCD and it worked great so your WD40 for lithium is a great addition to everyday electronic tips and tricks.
Watching your first video inspired me to pull out a mac classic II that has been sitting in the basement, the battery hadn't leaked yet, but the caps had. But the real issues was in the analog board caps, exact same ones as yours I suspect! FYI definately replace the one that is the exact same size as the bad one you pulled, and the two blue caps at the edge in that cluster, all 4 of those went bad from the machine just sitting there, but all the others were perfectly fine from an ESR and capacity standpoint. I tested them with my 'Anatek Blue ESR Meter' and DMM. The mid-size brown ones, like the one you pulled, measured in at 10 ohms ESR alone, which is terrible. The blue ones measured in around 1 Ohm ESR which is also still bad enough, all the others in the area were ~0.14 Ohm ESR.
One thing I have not figured out yet is why the voltage slowly drifts up, I feel like the more I turned the mac on the better this became, HDD would spin reliably, etc. Also there is a 12v adjustment hidden where the wire loom bundle hits the board... it took me... ages to realize where this was even when others talking about it! 5v output is slaved to the 12v regulation and they are proportional. 5v needs to be at least 4.85, to get there 12v can be a bit higher than 12v, but if you run 12v past 15% you will trip the crowbar circuit and it will trip off until adjusted down. Try to let the system stabilize before tweaking the adjustment for this(also be wary of how close to the CRT tube you need to get your hands), hope this helps! lots of google searches on my adventure.
I'm floored about how well the WD40 worked! Going to try that myself!
You’d be amazed at what some vinegar and scrubbing will do to that board I thought my se was toast but cleaning up and new caps works like a charm and mine was almost the whole board covered in that crusty crap
Soak corroded boards in white vinegar. It will break down rust and corrosion. CLR also helps once vinegar is finished.
You certainly tried your best with that board. Very hard to walk away from it though. Great video. Cheers.
I saw a very similar behavior to that corrotion recently while fixing a graphics card for my retro gaming PC. While most of the caps leaked, the electrolyte on one specific type had the same effect on the solder. It literally fell off and left the bare copper pads, so I could solder new caps and revive the card.
HOLY SHIT the corrosion in the first Mac. I'd never seen something like that in my life!
WD40 is a magical thing.
Looking forward to seeing you troubleshoot the Mac Plus. I have a Mac 128k that was upgraded to a Plus that has the exact same symptom and I haven't been able to fix it.
Reminds me of the repair I did for a customer... Laptop was left in the bathtub for an hour or two and then left to dry for a month... Internal battery was never disconnected
I actually got the piece of crap working again, the corrosion was a horror show
Another great video!!
I’m really looking forward to the rest of this series!! Hoping you can get most of these Macs working!
Hi Adrian! I would be cool to see the corroded chips decapped (curiousmarc recently showed how to do it easily and without chemicals). I believe that you would see corrosion even inside the package.
Vinegar is your friend for battery exlplosions. Neutralize the bases with an acidic solution
Please, even if you do know exactly the safety implications of directly touching unknown chemicals with your bare skin (i.e. the lithium battery contents, the electrolyte from the capacitors), try to wear some sort of gloves. Not only for the message you spread by directly touching things you refer to with words such as "gunk" and "fluffy stuff", but also because we love your videos and would very much like to see more of them without any skin conditions!
A good concern but capacitor guts will at worst cause mild irritation until you wash it off. The same goes for the worst of battery contents - The age alone has weakened them significantly and even when they were new they were not particularly dangerous.
Check some MSDS files!
Cool video. You should use a mirror in front of the ctr this way you can see if they are working without having to go around
This reminded me to finally crack open my mac classic... luckily the original 1991 battery despite being dead hadn't leaked but noticed minor grime around caps do did the isopropyl clean to play it safe (it still works all 4mb ram and all when assembled).
One of the computers I grew up with was an SE/30, so I have a lot of nostalgia for this style of Mac. If you end up with a spare chassis by the end of this, I'd VERY much like to buy it off of you so I can do a mini-itx build in it. Basically, I'm after a machine that's beyond repair but has a decent shell.
If you put an LCD in it then *please* try to make it look decent
Just plopping an LCD in without accounting for the curved CRT bezel just makes things look bad.
@@kargaroc386 100,000% agreed.
Great repairs. You have lot more skill and time/patience to fix these than I do... I think I did a few cap replacement on LCD TVs, but that's about as far as I go to fix electronics...
Adrian simply the best
Lots more interesting stuff to come. It's been quite the journey making these videos. :-)
Great video Adrian, thank you! You should do a collab with Nile Red on how to better dilute those chemicals and leave the board in the best possible state! Keep up the great content!
The board is begging for that rework, Adrian!
I haven't completely ruled that out. I still have all the parts it needs -- I did some more investigation and there is so much damage because the vias are bad now. For now I put it aside to work on other stuff. :-)
You realy think your able to fix that board? That would realy make you the retro/electronics/repair magician.
@@adriansdigitalbasement I'll join the camp of really wanting to see you repair it. Make it a pet project! Give it it's own series. Maybe go over the top and turn it into a steam punk mod! I'd love to see all the bodge wires going all over the place and see it turn on and work in the end. The pay off would be nuts!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Please do! We want to see it! Even if you can't, please don't throw it away.
i would love to see that board working again !
For number 5, take a hot air gun and remove all of the chips and put them in a static bags and get rid of the MB. wouldn't even take the chips around the leaked area. The material may have crept in to the chip and will be a time bomb later.
A trick that old TV techs used to do is to have a mirror on the wall opposite of the screen when you are working on one. That way you can see the picture tube.
You might be able to salvage some of the chips anyhow.
I think the battery diodes are actually there so that when you turn the power on it doesn't try to charge the battery. Though I suppose backwards installation protection might be a plus.
You know you might be right. I’ll need to check that and see!
Oh man, return of the Maxell Battery Bomb. Maxell must have made a bad battery line there because most of the nuked Mac motherboards I have seen all had a Red Maxell battery. Anyway, great video series, I am liking it!
Some serious corrosion. Looking forward to the next part
If you sometime have time, please try to repair that board with so much oxidation. No hurry. Just as a proof of concept study or whatever ;)
Are there no caps that don't leak?
You should send the #5 machine to Perfractic so hi can do a extreme refurb on it
Oh boy ive been waiting for this your repair videos are so interesting and educational 👍👍👍❤️
Let's get right to it!!!
Like your videos, keep them up!!! Would be safe for you to ground these CRTs before working on them or let viewers to understand the dangers of these CRTs. Add a 10MOhm resistor to your lead. I did burn a good digital board once by grounding the CRT without resistance. And will definitively try the WD40 or fats to convert the electrolytes.
Hello adrian, you should try evapo rust for badly corroded stuff,it works wonders to remove corrosion .
I have a bottle of that actually. Didn’t even think so soak it. I guess at this point it’s all gone but I really should have tried it.
Can't say I've ever seen WD40 used like that, interesting cleaning effect there, I never use the stuff as it's never done what I needed it to (like, lubrication, it just evaporates and leaves parts squeaky again!), seeing other comments on a reaction between the battery juice and WD40 turning it into a soap though, that's pretty interesting...
I only use the stuff to remove stickers. Mhmmm where did I see that again??
Great was looking forward to this one :D
WD40 will dissolve metal just a little bit. Someone with an antique clock way back once told me that it was a lubricant they had to avoid because it would alter the metal parts.
Wd40 is, predominantly kerosene
what do you wash the motherboard with? I didn't know you could soak those parts lol
Thanks Adrian for the video, good luck, the mac wants to live!
I love these series video's! Except waiting for the next part :) What camera are you using now?
Nice new Røde mic you got there.
For picks, you might want to ask your dentist for some used dental picks. They are thinner than your pick and therefore more suitable for this task. Why not give the board to someone who can make the board work? There are fewer of those each year, and that might be what someone wants for a project.
Channel Plan C did work on a -Amiga 500- with serious battery damage. Bad traces, vias, many bodge wires quite a far gone motherboard, I think it was worst off than this mac classic but he did it, and it worked. My bet is on that Mac making a come back after good clean-up, re-cap and some bodge wires. That would be a restoration video worth watching in my books.
Correction:- Plan C repair was on a Acorn A3000 not Amiga 500 as I stated.
I'm seriously thinking about making replacement boards for Classic, Color Classic, SE, SE/30, FDHD, Classic II as well as PSU boards. Some of the chips are unobtaniums. I'd like to have hires images of the boards (sans components) so if you were willing to desolder everything off the corroded board and send me pics and I will see what I can do. I also looked for part numbers of the yellow SOIC tantalums. I do have several MC68030FC16B's and MC68000FN8's.
The thing that stopped me from buying an eevblog multimeter is the text on the left looks like a negative sign to my deteriorating eyesight
I like watching your videos the videos are entertaining and educational
hey, Adrian can you do a maxed out color classic? I had one and couldn't keep it. I would love to see how it could be maxed out in today's day and possibly get one to do the same. Thank You!
Adrian's Digital Basement: Nice video, as always. :-)
But could you show notices you add at post production for a longer time? I'm barely able (may be because I am not a native English speaker) to read them before they are gone.
Soaking circuit boards in soapy water seems a bit scary - how do you ensure all water is dried afterwards?
Those Maxell batteries are the most prone to leaking
I wouldn't trust any of them, all of my old Macs no longer have that battery in them.
Louis Rossmann will make this Mac a happy Mac
But will say fuck at least 100 times
And that's before he hands the board to Paul
I want Louis to service the one with the sad Mac just for this comment lmao
Hey Adrian, where were these Macs assembled? I wonder if different factories used different brands of batteries. It seems that Maxells are the only ones that exploded, the Sonnenschein and Tadiran batteries I've also seen used in these seem fine, so if different factories happen to have stuck with certain battery brands, it might be a good indicator on whether or not it's going to be a mess inside.
I think of these mentioned Singapore. Could well be something to that. Maybe specific local brands or something.
Very good Adrian !!!!: I'm really turning into an Adrian-Basement-addict !!!!
Adrian, Mac1 is a fish tank, and a metal plate on eBay for the etched signatures.
O
That board would probably be a lot of work, but also make for a REALLY good video 😀
Motherboards are water proof?
This channel is amazing... it's like retro Louis Rossmann lol
" Some random board scrubbing" LOL
I'd legit take that board off your hands and pay to do so! Sprint layout awaits - the more of these we can get, the more likely a repro board will appear :D
Funny seeing you here :D
Love these videos, great quality as usual Adrian.
Yeah, finaly the day was come along
Where are you getting all your IPA from? It's vanished from the shelves around here in the Philly ares. I can;t even get any for my 3D printer!
In the majority of cases, normal ethanol will do the job just fine. IPA is a strong solvent than ethanol, but ethanol is strong enough to dissolve most things you use alcohol for, such as cleaning soldering flux.
I buy in 2L or 5L bottles, save money that way.... unless you do that too and just happen to need your refill now? Which would suck. Maybe you use a lot more than me too.
Are any of these Classic II's? Do you know the keyboard combo to press at start to display the picture of the dev team stored in ROM? Also don't forget to use the Command-Option-X-O combo at startup to boot from ROM - it makes it the fastest machine ever! (I could press the keys to send a print job and have the printer almost print before the screen warmed up!) I may have to start making some RUclips videos of my own! I still have a shed full of old kit (I donated all my Apple ][ kit to a local museum, still got all my 68k to G4 kit though, I'm only missing about 4 models in the 68k range!).
Could machine 5 be reused as like an emulation station? Some sort of Pi setup?
Woo, Love old macs
How do you wash the board? Regular tap water?
Try Trilon B for corroded boards - should be way better than WD40.
I have been trying to fix a IIgs ROM3 board that looked like that lol. Tis a Sisyphean task, but I just wanna see if I can do it. >_>
Another great video, Adrian! By the way, I was wondering about your opinion on "polymodding", or the replacing of electrolitic capacitors with more modern polymer capacitors. Purists might argue that that would not be era-appropriate for retro hardware, but given how much of a bane those leak-prone original capacitors have proven to be to retro and vintage hardware, plus the fact that polymer capacitors are not only leak-proof, but also have a considerably longer operating life, wouldn't that make those recommandable for the long term preservation of vintage hardware?
Also, will you be using polymer capacitors as part of your repair works on these Macs? I understand polymer capacitors are not suitable for use in power supplies, but would work fine as replacement capacitors in the logic boards, right?
I'm not an expert in these matters, so anybody feel free to correct me if I am basing these questions/suggestions on incorrect information. Thanks.
Keep 'em coming, Adrian! 🙂
The polymer cap thing is pretty insane. Sure they are better quality capacitors overall, but they are not a panacea. We dont know what their failure mode is going to be in 30 years. The main issue with SMD electrolytics was poor sealings which is what causes the leakage - this has now largely been resolved so good quality SMD electrolytics are a perfectly sane choice.
when a cap blows out the bottom, the correct nomenclature is not "blown its guts", but "pooped its pants".
great video looking forward to the next one
You know where you keep all those RF shields? Put that corroded board there.
I found my dads old windows for workgroups 3.11 (I know it ran Windows for workgroups 3.11 because I have a complete set of all 8 3.5 inch floppy disks, the lithium battery somehow didn't leak AT ALL, I have it and not a single speck of corrosion on that long dead non-rechargeable lithium battery.
I'm so excited about this video!
I'm surprised there was even a board under all that horrific corrosion, it literally looked eaten away!
Always 14 thumbs down, weird. And I think if the board is in such a bad shape, just scrap for the components to repair others. I just repaired my //c, learn a lot from Adrian, thanks.
Nice Pick work. Are you the Digital Dentist?
Thank you Apple for using lithium cells! Or else we wouldnt have these great videos😅 Ever figured how live would be without WD40? That stuf is amazing. Please make more repair videos👍 (less Apple haha)
I think the Commodore Amigas also used these lithium batteries. Check out GadgetUK164’s channel, where he attempts rework on a badly corroded A3000. 😊
Also such a great Repair guru👍
NiCd's, lithiums, all the batteries used back then suck when they are getting on for 40 years old and WAY past their shelf life
WD40 to clean electrolyte off boards? That's really useful to know!
Mr.Adrian, do you know anything about the AT&T PC6300 from 1984ish???
I haven't had the chance to use one of those before.
@@adriansdigitalbasement I ask because I have one but I need to get a monitor for it. The bad part is that the monitor is proprietary and powered by the computer it's self.
I appreciate the enthusiasm and technical skill but just wondering what one would use these obsolete computers for? Sure, they engender a feeling of nostalgia but aren't they essentially giant paperweights with zero practical purpose?
That's just hobbies in general, even the "practical" ones mostly aren't if inspected closely enough.