Another scarily minimal fan control module - with schematic
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2024
- I've featured a bigger version of this in a previous video. But this is probably the most minimal version other than adding a very simple on/off remote control module.
I meant to say 18W apparent power for the module's low power factor. Not an issue until the power companies start charging for it (and they will).
The module is designed for three speed fans where the fan motor has a capacitor and tapped winding that allows three different speeds based on which of the taps is powered. It also has an output for a fan swivel motor.
The design is impressive for the very basic power supply running a microcontroller. Companies like Padauk specifically tell you to avoid using their microcontrollers with capacitive droppers for reliability reasons. It can result in a very noisy and spiky power rail due to coupling of mains borne electrical noise.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of RUclips's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
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No SOS mode? What a disappointment. :)
no strobe mode either!
WHAT A DOWNGRADE!
That would be hilarious. A previous employer made motor controllers for a certain donkey fan and they were investigating using a similar mode to provide a breeze simulation.
😂 If you hold down the power button for 5 secs....
Beat me to it
The neon bulbs were a great way to show the different modes.
The FUN button on the non-Hopi really sparks my curiosity
It's the Function button. You can use it to measure over set times and that button lets you change settings. It's a lot of Fun!
same with me!
i want to think it stands for 'funky'
"And I shall focus down a little bit... On to... The burnt squiggly line."
*This* is how you control fans; by giving them exactly what they want!
Underrated comment
And nothing beats seeing Clive showing a schematic of a circuit board to also calm my nerves. ☕️☺️👍💯
Especially an upside-down one, made my Sunday.
The 'Light' button is probably for a different version of the unit which is designed for controlling one of those ceiling fans with a built in light - probably in conjunction with one of the hidden buttons.
Most recommend that the first output to the fan windings is the high speed position to give enough torque to get the fan moving - using the lowest speed first may not be enough to start rotation (particularly on an old fan) and may lead to the motor stalling/overheating.
I have seen similar, if not the same, units sold in Australia to add remote control to a ceiling fan which originally was controlled by a switched wall control.
no, it is used to switch the led indicator off on a board that have a front pannel button so you can use it without a remote(like the one he taken apart before)
That low-torque issue only seems to be an issue for north american fans (as Alec of Technology Connections went into in a past video), for people with 220-250v, the low speed setting rarely ever has an issue unless there's a fault with the motor (E.G. dry/worn bearings or bushings, or, from experience, they greased the bushings (they need oil!) at the factory causing it to be barely able to turn even at full power!)... :)
@@twocvblokeit's rarely a problem with preset speeds, but for rotary dimmer style speed controls it might be. Those often go with a click from off to full and then the rest of the knobs rotation go towards lowest speed.
Those usually have such a slow minimum, that even a new duct fans might not be able to start without the bump with faster setting. That might be a fire hazard if left to really low speed and the power go out. It's low current though, so more likely you just lose some lifetime of the fan.
@@twocvbloke living in 120v country a normal fan can start from low speed if it is new, but as these cheap induction motor do not have a proper ball bearing, after using a while the motor shaft resistance will become very large and need the strong setting to lat it spin for a while then you can use the low setting
The hidden buttons are +/- brightness.
Your ability to read chinglish as fluently as reading correct english is a pure talent in itself! 😎👍
That beautiful line of 4 neon indicators put a smile on my face.
5:50 - Yes, making the gate negative, operates the TRIACs in quadrants II & III, instead of a positive gate (quadrants I & IV). Quadrant IV (4) is much less sensitive, than the other 3. Some TRIACs have quadrant IV so insensitive, that they are advertised as 3 quadrant TRIACs.
12:20 - "Make sure the load is not short circuited". If so, you have an ElectroBOOM video !
Hey I love ElectroBoom videos Lecthy (spelling?) Is a great Electrical Engineering guy who happens to have a high tolerance for causing his own pains 😂😂😂😂
I was going to short-circuit my load, but then the points to note advised me not to, I‘m glad they pointed that out.
The first postion after power on is high. To give the motor enough of a boost to start from a standstill. If you started it at low, then it might just stall and burn out its winding.
There is a whole video on this by Technology Connection! 😅
Interesting little control module, Clive! In many A/C systems (and a passive fan-cooler will be used as such), there is an option for "LED Off", usually labelled "Sleep", because the "ON LED" does light up a bedroom and may be detrimental to some people's ability to fall sleep.
well that's a really cool sort of reverse engineering technique with the light bulbs!
This module can be used to replace a damaged fan pcb，or change a manual switch fan to a remote one. It is quite common in China.
And, can include 🇰🇷 as it has a “timer” function
It seems to me fans usually start with high first. I believe Technology Connections explained the reasoning behind that and it has to do with starting the motor up. IIRC
It's less likely to stall that way. And, I believe TC does have a video about it.
@@misterhat5823 Lots of crossover between Clive and TC subscribers.
Too bad the CLUNK! sound of the mechanical buttons now gets replaced with a very annoying high pitched beep on the remote 😂
Suppose you could always take that part off
I agree a good clunky button was always fun, much better than those bubble wrap style things. 🤣 👍👍
This is my favorite bomb making channel
IED Clive
Nice to hear the points to note making sense. 🤔
These can be used for many purposes! We use something similar (modified) for controlling the fans and low-level heating in our chicken coop. Works really well for the last ten years, however ours works on 477MHz rather than IR.
I am doing much better today from my anxiety since yesterday, plus watching cartoons today like Max & Ruby and Milly Molly with my kids is helping alot.👨👩👧👦☺️
That would be useful for making someone think a fan is broken, cycling from full speed to off over and over.
I’ve got that mode on a pedestal fan and use it all the time. Very relaxing natural breeze effect.
6:17 Good that you had the kink palculator there… 😂
I note that Big Clive doesn't reverse-engineer the Kink Palculator?
@@marcse7en Buttons, blob, display, and that is it. Functional, friendly, fast, but much more interesting with its clothes on.
Looks a handy thing to have thanks Clive 😊
I modified my two speed fan with a slightly more advanced device, Shelly 2PM+. Interesting point, I did assume that there is no problem if both windings are energised at the same time, but noup! If both are energised same time there is quite substantial current between them. about 3x normal current.
"...finding its way into the hearts of many fans around the world."
For the Off Light button I might have an idea:
Back in the 2000s I remember having seen and used pedestal fans that had some sort of nightlight (A single neon indicator behind a colored plastic lens) next to the buttons as well as another button for the light that also stayed down when pressed to be released by the same Off button as the fan itself.
So maybe the module shown in this video was designed with those particular fans in mind ?
Interesting to see the use of triacs instead of relays by the way.
The "Off Light" is the give away.
It's a cheap ceiling fan controller re-purposed
I like being too hot or too cold, it breeds character.
looks like something a first year electronics student has made
I think that remote control module might work well with a ceiling fan because the speed control wiring to the motor is pretty much the same as a table top or pedestal fan, even the swivel synchronous motor output can be used to control the light built into most ceiling fans.
Awesome devices for their size
Pulling out the calculator to do 220 divided by 220 times 220 made my day 😂
I have absolutely no idea why i watch these videos but i do. Cheers big man 🥃
Thank you, keep working.
Even though it's a bad example, those neons if larger would make for a pretty decent flicker effect for a candle module. The timer if it's usual, that's off, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8 hr timer, which could make for a nice nightlight.
The extra layer under the conductive ink may be to prevent pinholes in the solder mask from shorting the switches.
Has it got SOS, that would be as useful as it ramping the fan up-down-off. 🤣
I wonder if the wire to the IR is steel, thats usually springy. I wonder why they haven't stripped it back and removed the LED and beeper? it could save hem a few cents over 100s boards. Interesting bit of tat thanks for buying it so we dont have too 2x👍
Nice to see this has exactly the same remote and functionality as the Amazon basics fan i bought last year.
Ps so far works well, but i wish it had an extra low fan speed and an extra high fan speed as the range in speed is not that different between 1,2,3.
6:20 this man really just used a calculator for 220 / 220 * 220
I like the fact that it's hackable to power multiple ac loads. But it would be best to modify the code to arbitrarily select which load(s) are on.
They could have gotten away without the diode on the input. (The one that goes to +5V)
Replace it with a 5.1V zener and forgett about the zener on the right side (basicaly swap the zener to the left)
That is penny pinching to the max, but you can use a zener diode as an actual diode and save one BOM item.
on the positive half wave the zener conducts forward with 0.6v providing a return path for the capacitor
on the negative half wave the zener conducts in reverse at 5.1v. Minus the diode drop of the diode at the top, thats 4.5v for the rest of the circuit
You can't avoid the diode...the diode is for mains..its P.I.V. is high...whereas a zener has ..just its zener/ avalanche clamp voltage...
@@analoghardwaretops3976 Sure you can
A Zener Diode has a forward Voltage of around 0.7V like every other diode too, this feature gets not utilized very often thou since Zeners are almost exclusively used in reverse. But that doesn't mean you can't use them like normal diodes
Connect a capacitor in series with a 5.2V Zener Diode to mains. You will get a Square wave like Voltage between -0.7V and 5.2V on the Zener.
Now use a normal Diode to rectify this voltage and you get 5.2V minus the drop of the second diode = 4.5V DC
@@Fluxkompressor why not try it out ...& let's know the result...
Thanks :)
oh those neons, wow
Interesting that they're switching an inductive load without any snubbing on the triac.
-3 Quadrant aka "snubberless" triacs perhaps- Strike that. Found a data sheet for those triacs, they are 4-Quadrant.
@@sootikins Could be. I knew those triacs existed, but rarely do they work without at least an RC snubber.
@@misterhat5823 Not sure if you saw my edit to my comment: found data sheet for the triacs in question, they're 4-Quad so no idea how they survive w/o snubber. I've used 3-Quad successfully w/o snubbers but only on incandescent lamp loads.
Do the manufacturers watch Big Clive? "Points to Note"
OMG LOL, I have done that too many times. 220 / 220 =1. 1 x 220 = 220. I knew I could do it in my head, but there's a calculator right here!
It must be hard sometimes to control all your fans.. that's when these devices come in handy. XD
That looks exactly like the module in a oscillating floor fan I purchased. To answer some of your questions: The sleep cycles through chunks of time, Displayed by a LED for the time amount. The Ramp up/down etc is described as a "sleep" harmonic - I dont remember the word they used on my remote - it's not nearby.
It's an OK fan - nothing to write home about. Just your basic cheap white plastic crap floor fan.
On the remote control, those are carbon deposits on the copper tracks. These have some resistance (maybe you could measure it?) that copper tracks don't have. Maybe those resistances are part of an RC oscillator or an ADC within the blob chip, so that they can add more buttons than there are pins on the chip. Just a guess...
I love that you used the cink palculator to do that bit of math. I would have asked Siri.
"Hey Siri, what's 220 ÷ 220 × 220?"
Wonder what the wattage rating is.. because itd be useful for auto switching “fairy lights” or some random lights.. you could make one of those “eat at joes” kinda signs that light up consecutively.. ha!
Fans are usually about 40W. Those little triacs are good for about 0.5A so in 240v land 100W seems reasonable. That's quite a few LEDs...
I think on the last fan controller video I mentioned my bedroom wall fan has an IR window with nothing behind it, this would look like it'd fit, but, I tend to leave my fan running on low and on a 240-120 step-down transformer (cos it runs too fast!) constantly, that is until the summer comes and I need the full 240v on it, where it ends up sounding like I have an aeroplane in my bedroom... :P
This could make a nice little remote & PWM controller for my home built used oil burner. One for the constant on fan, pulsed oil valve for low and constant on for high fire. Pulse on/off control of the spring closed powered open valve would act as a pwm. Hummmm
Interesting controller. Interesting there are no snubber networks on the triacs.
I thought it was quite interesting that after you repeatedly rubbed that long IR line how it rose up afterwards. Are you sure that this is for controlling "fans"? I mean, I can definitely think of devices you might want to change the speed on automatically at short and repeating intervals. Did you check to see if "lights on" or "lights off" was the default? Everyone has their preferences.
That is almost the same remote control used for my Electric Fireplace mantle on amazon. Yours has an extra button. It outputs the timer and fan level to an LCD screen on the unit somehow.
I could make a pun about not being a fan of control electronics being at mains voltage, but that IR receiver under live, on a springy cable made me nervous for a moment.
I have a bathroom heater and the remote has stopped working but although it is out of reach I don't want a module with a capacitive dropper and triacs, the original has a 9V transformer and relays for the outputs... I found a similar heater but it is somewhat narrower and leaves the old holes in the wall visible, I can to do a PCB transplant but the old used a combination of LEDs for the timer and the new has a 7 segment LED display and making and aligning holes in the housing is not something I'm very good at. Both remotes look the same but it seems they transmit different data...
Does the triacs/fan go through that fuse? Wondering what the rating is and if that would protect the fan windings if a triac shorted.
Cool...
Nice video, Clive. Are there any versions of this worth buying? Is it possible to use the triac outputs from this module to drive larger triacs and add some basic safety features?
There are other more rugged remote control receivers available.
How much load can those tricas take? And why do all wireless switches like Shelly do not use triacs but relais?
Sometimes I have to ask myself, "Did Clive add text to the thumbnail, or does the box really say that?"
Magic Fan Bang sounds like it could be an actual translation error, or the name of a band.
I just got an ad on Aliexpress for a shoe insert that claims it "feels like stepping on s...t. I wonder if that's a bad translation?
I note that Big Clive doesn't reverse-engineer the Kink Palculator? Is it a blob chip?
Neeeded a calculator to figure out 220(220/220)=220
Lol
Did you measure the ohms on that 22 ohm resistor?
It seems a large expensive resistor for 22 ohms, which wouldn't dissipate much heat at all driving the few mA for that IC.
It is also common in a capacitive reactance supply like that to use a much higher value series resistor like a 22k or 47k, that resistor is important to reduce any strain from high freq voltage spikes on the mains, which would blast right through that 1uF cap and stress the cap and zener/IC
The resistor is rated fairly high power to handle the high current spikes it may see in use.
The East Asians love their Posidrives. Most rising clamp terminals are cross- and straight-friendly, but for the _less_ friendly ones Posidrive is where it's at.
I suppose being 18w, you don't have to use it for fans, but also as a lighting controller, turn on some lamps or different coloured bulbs and set a lamp for a timer, in which case, an actual circuit designed for lighting with a timer might be better for fans than this is!
(yes, I should watch the whole video before commenting!)
18W isn't its load power rating. The triacs are probably good for at least 200mA.
I can’t really think of an application where you want the fan to ramp that fast?
Fans only need two modes: Off, and Shred.
Isn't the box you showed actually for the "more sophisticated" unit you had at the start, rather than for the crappier unit?
One part is dc the other alternating, so is this unit only running at half power?
Just the circuitry running on the rough DC.
Most electrocutions are from swimming pools as the gravity for the pumps are below the natural flow. I guess it has to do with longetivity of the pumps.
I got the one with the external control pad and am using it on a 3 speed fan harvested from a defunct dehumidifier. We'll see how long it lasts....
Triacs don't have a base element, it is the "gate" element. The beeper should be properly called the hooter. Ron W4BIN
I kind of like this circuit, but I need to drive about 50 triacs for a special case, but need fast triac switching (and quite a bit more outputs).
"off light" would be because the same remote would be used for ceiling fans with built in lights.
The two extra buttons could be for a timer.
Almost make a good controller for 3 light circuits in chase mode
Question: With such a horrendous powerfactor, wouldn't a "Smart"-meter charge you for 19W (or VA??) instead of the 0.58W?
Only if it was programmed to do so. And they inevitably will.
I'm trying to think of a circumstance where you'd want a fan to endlessly cycle between speeds. 🤔
An attempt to emulate “natural wind” ~ as if you were outside
Maybe to try and get a PWM intermediate speed? Not sure about the adjustability of it but...
👍❤️👍
Wonder what the FUN is on the AnTai
When you press it, a random lawyer explodes somewhere in the world.
Off light is to toot your horn when the light is already on.
Any chance you could reverse engineer a V3 royal rife machine.
Ah, but will it carbonate?
the white remote looks a lot like some black and decker models. maybe the remote is a generic model.
what do I search for to find these on ebay?
Try keywords like remote fan control module.
What happened to hopi wattmeter?
It's fine.
Why do the blob the chips?
The cheapest way to manufacture is to put the bare IC directly onto the circuit board and protect it with black resin.
CHINA, the place with the worlds noisiest power
Very limited in 'other uses' as you can only have one output selected at a time.
i like that cycling function, would feel a bit like a breeze rather than constant irritating wind.. might get one just for that function
That little beeper is obnoxious. Sounds like the remote commands are being relayed by a trapped cricket.
under 1000 views and under 10 minutes, lets gooooooooooooooo
willing to bet money the remote is used in 5 different versions and 1 of the versions is either a screw in light bulb with a fan glued to it(why do these exist??? doesnt seem....good for the sockets) or even a ceiling fan/air cleaner with a built in light
"and bring in the 1st exhibition" @ 4.17...really makes it feel criminal LOL 👉😵👈👉💎👈❗❗❗
Isn't it time you take a Chinese course with all that stuff from the East
🔌🧑🔧🚧⚡⚡⚡
Wait "584 views 32 seconds ago" but comments from 2 weeks ago?
Was hidden for other than patrons.
The fuck is this for? Like a residential ventilation fan?