You completely missed the most important thing: The listener owns the volume knob, so the whole "war" was and is an exercise in full retardiation: Listeners just turn the "gained" volume to their preferred level.... and end up with music, which in the words of a famous man "Sounds like dogshit!"
If you have to turn the volume up or down you're just going to change the song probably. Loud grabs the attention and the only people who really care are audiophiles. I also never get 'exhausted' from listening to music personally, if something is so loud that it hurts i just turn it down. Highs hurt more than lows though
They all want their tracks to be louder than the others without touching the volume knob. It's the same as the commercials on TV: The signal level is exactly the same when watching a movie or commercials, but because the commercials are heavily compressed, they become much louder. They do so in order to get your attention, to make THEIR product stand out. All this compression is a real problem not only in music unfortunately :\
I noticed ( i dont know if its realy true or in my ears) i tested yesterday for example thriller original from 1982 and thriller for 2012 remastered on tidal and i enjoy it more on the old original release. I could notice the separation on instruments a little better on the old release. I noticed some distorcion on the new release on high volume. Didnt noticed on the old release from the 80s Am i crazy mate? My phone is samsung galaxy s8 and my headphone is a brilliantly done kingston revolver s
When tracks get compressed, every instrument tend to become equally loud, so all the subtle nuances and textures tend to get lost. Our hearing depends on judging the difference between quiet and loud elements. When everything is the same volume it becomes tiresome to listen to and as I said, textures tend to get lost. Imagine a conversation: someone talks quiet and loud throughout the conversation. You'll be able to judge much of what's going on based on which words they places more importance on by the volume etc. If someone is yelling constantly with the exact same volume, it's almost impossible to determine which parts they feel strongly about or not. The same thing happens to music. Things that would otherwise stay in the background and just provide texture, will be brought up, so you're faced with a wall of sound which sounds exactly the same all the time. it's difficult to explain, but what you have experienced is a good indication of this. The older tracks are more dynamic. Now, this will mean that they are also quieter than modern tracks, but as you said, you can always turn up the volume on your amp! Overall, the quality of those old tracks are much better. The music becomes much more enjoyable to listen to.
FireWalk i enjoyed more the old track and only clicked 1 time on the volume button on the phone to get equaly loud... to the newer one If you are not satisfied you have an equalizer to adjust that.. dont understand this loud wars... 'the guy/ company' that begun this should have been out of business
You have opened my eyes to this subject.. i cant thank you enough. I have good earing and i can tell subtle differences... i have more fun using the old track... for example when the door closes if feels more natural on the old release than the new one ( thriller michael jackson)... damn it producers.. long live piracy if they are destroiyng the quality of the music im glad i can pirate that album
The ironic thing about the loudness wars is the inability to be able to listen to the affected music loudly. Optimally compressed music can have it's volume cranked up with comfort and ease to a louder degree than ridiculously over-compressed music, which can only be listened to comfortably at low volumes.... that's if its listenable at all.
Overcompressed music actually sounds better when it plays in a car radio or quietly in the background, but it's when you have good headphones or speakers and you want to crank it up that it starts sounding like shite.
Inventor of hot water : Sounds shit on a decent car system as well. I can't stand listening to much music past about 1998 in my car at any kind of high volume level. Decided to crank up London Grammar and she sounded like she was singing through a fan.
@@agamaz5650 Not to sound like someone who's stuck in the past (even though I am, okay you got me!) but can you recommend some music nowadays with good dynamics? I'm curious where all the good sounding music is. You can recommend any type of music. I listen to anything... well, maybe I shouldn't have said that. Darn you rap metal!
It always strikes me as ironic that we now have so much more dynamic range available in the digital realm, and what do we do? We work very hard to destroy it!
With the extra loudness and decreased dynamic range, it makes music very fatiguing to listen to for any length of time. I much prefer to listen to an older recording.
I'm a classical double bassist, and a PhD mathematician. I like the ideas here, and I like the quite accurate science. Thank you. I do not like any music uniformly loud. And the loudness war has done much damage to music and more to the ears of the listeners.
You're welcome. Indeed, I totally agree. Most devices has something called a volume knob. Despite that, a lot of people argue that they prefer their music compressed, because they're too lazy to turn up the volume manually. This is especially true among young people. They don't know what they are missing, but those of us who remember the days when music used to have dynamics do. :)
Albums are usually engineered for the masses. Most people don't even have a good sound system at home and use a stock stereo in the car which has a limited frequency range. A recording that is made to be loud would sound better on a sub par system but not necessarily on quality equipment that can play a full range.
I totally disagree. It's true that loudness gives the impression of "better recording". But a good quality master, with full dynamic range will sound better anywhere, anywhere, even in the speakers of a laptop, compressed music clips and saturates the speakers, music with dynamic range let them breath, any system will sound better, from the mono speaker of your cellphone to the high end rig. This idea of, we make music for budget system, that's why we make it loud is bullshit, just a miserable justification to convince you that you cannot enjoy full dynamic range music if you don't have a hi Fi equipment, bullshit.
I thought the analogy with food would be more like "today we are getting used to food being tastier and tastier, for example using too much salt and sugar, so we can no longer appretiate little nuances in flavour".
So this explains why the loudness button on my amplifier from the 1980s boosted the bass. It was designed for listening at low volumes because those frequencies couldn’t be heard as clearly, thank you!
Pink Floyd has done an excellent job of remastering in their high-resolution Immersion sets. Incredible dynamic range. In a WAV editor the thing peaked in the high 60s.
@Mark Donald oh yeah tbh im in heavy bass music scene and its kindof hard to get that loud as the professionals but imo its just more knowledge to gain so im fine with it
Loved the explanations and the visuals! Especially liked the example of the french fries - going from the hot, pleasing and dynamic "crispy outside, soft inside" range of textures to the unappetizing and compressed "same all the way through" texture of the cold, rubbery fries. One thing though: Around 8:35, seems like it might've been helpful to turn the overall track volume up a bit on the Normal track, to get more of the loudest elements of it closer to where they're at in the Compressed version, so people could then focus more on the greater dynamic range in Normal. As it is, I think some folks who are struggling with the concept might simply conclude that the Normal one just sounds "quieter" overall, when in fact there's more to it than than. But hey, again great job on putting this video together!
Thanks, glad you liked it. I agree 100%. Should have volume matched them to better show it off. I was running out of time so unfortunately I didn't have the time to review the video good enough. I usually let it sit and then watch it several times over the next few days. This time it took so long to make the video that it was actually finished the very same day it was supposed to be published. It's really eating at me. Putting so many hours into it and then overlook a mistake like that. :\ Still, you can clearly hear the difference in the low end especially. All though slightly quieter, the original is much punchier and crisper. :) I hope the new version of youtube creator studio will allow me to edit volumes on published videos. Perhaps I can then go back and improve it. :)
FireWalk Well, if it doesn't let you, I wouldn't sweat it. It's a minor thing really. I'm sure most people will get it, especially if they've paid attention to the rest of the video. Keep up the great work!
I kind of wish more EDM experimented with dynamics instead of pumping the master up to 0. Imagine the perfect drop with the perfect dynamics. It could be legendary. There's barely any contrast in modern drops because shit's just too loud.
The Loudness war forces me to master my tracks to the point of losing some desirable dynamics that would have given it a warmer and punchier sound (based on the demands of the market). Though, I'm already perceiving some changes as most productions I listen to are now maintain as much dynamics as possible to give the track a better expression when listened to.
Indeed. The problem with the loudness war is that it's been going on for so long that people have been used to all that "salt". If you try to reduce the salt now, they will think there's something wrong with the "food".. :\
Same thing goes for sugar. I'm from The Netherlands, and when I go to the US, I feel that most food is waaay too sweet. It gives a uniform taste to almost everything, but it destroys the diversity of the different foods. The same goes for music with the loudness.
It's not problem of salt, the problem is that a perfect mastered track(every genre of musics) will play like crap on most systems. Producers should give 2 mastered tracks, one for good desktop systems and another for mobile. Obviously it's useless to have a 24 bit 192 flac for a club edm music...
Thank you very much for this simple yet informative explanation. I would like to add that some music producers, in addition to the compression, they amplify the both extremes of the frequency spectrum and the result is a loud and a V-shaped sound signature.
Four years later, and the loudness war is still going strong in Japan. So many great artists composing amazing music over there, only to have it come out on record like a giant mushy turd. Such a waste.
It's not his actual voice, man, if you'd've checked his Fiver, y'all be knowing by now that he's a norweagian and all the vids are voiced over by the dude who's voice you clearly hearing here :) But who gives a fuck, these vids are pure gold any fuckin way. Already got your Fiver mix/master gig in sight for my next track , mr FireWalk :) So, y'all should check his stuff out,man, this shit's gold :D
People used to tell me that I can't make great commercial music without smashing the hell out of it... which I think depends on the market you're after. Thankfully, we're starting to appreciate the concept of dynamic range more, but there's still much progress to be made in bringing beautiful music back to mainstream. For me, I'd rather temper the fire than drench it with gasoline - you have more control over the flame's form. Such is the same with composition; the loudness war has prevented us from being able to see the forest for the trees.
Indeed. I remember back in the late 90's / early 2000's when Trance music had it's golden years. All the tracks were punchy and had dynamics. Today most trance tracks are squashed to death. With the exception of some psy trance, most of the uplifting stuff is very tiresome to listen to due to the lack of dynamics. When looking at the waveform it's mostly a solid wall from start to finish. Now that spotify etc has introduced a loudness ceiling of -14 lufs (if memmory serves) perhaps this will help force back the dynamics. After all, when a loudness ceiling is introduced, a dynamic track that's brought up in volume will always sound better than a heavily compressed track that's brought down in volume. That alone should be a good reason to not overdo the compression.
I love this video and have watched it many times. I agree with your sentiments completely, but I have to disagree when you said that the loudness war is letting up. Newer music for the most part is still very compressed here in 2024. You’d think that because streaming services play their songs at a fixed volume, it would end the demand for overly compressed songs. But unfortunately, at this point people are so used to that loud, flat sound that it’s what many of them have grown to like. Especially the younger generation. I’m sad to say that I don’t see music generally becoming dynamic again.
A little myth busting: Vinyl vs CD. Analog vs digital. The *recording* is the same for both, and it's *digital*. So the Vinyl's source is digital too. Masters are different because the media is used differently. The CD master is *usually* more compressed+louder just because it's the media the ends up being used in random (often noisy) places, while vinyl is guaranteed to be listened at home, so you can preserve a bit more of dynamics, and the final user can turn up the volume of the speakers instead. Some genres can actually benefit from a bit of compression to achieve a bigger wall of sound, e.g. metal and electronic music, but it's a choice. Another limitation of vinyl is the lathe that physically engraves it. Yes, it's an analog device, but it's limited: you have to be careful with highs and lows. High peaks could literally make your vinyl skip, so you have to limit them; stereo lows can split the grooves of the record, so they are often collapsed to mono in the master. CD does't have these limitations. Another way the CD potential is wasted: the dynamic range of vinyl as a medium is about 50dB, while a 16bit CD's is 96dB! You *can* do a more dynamic master on CD, but sadly you don't, because your CD ends up as an MP3, listened through cheap headphones in a noisy environment, so a flatter louder master will be perceived as better. *For bands out there that prefer the master that ends up on the vinyl, you can burn that one on CD, or have two CD versions: a standard one for noisy places and a dynamic one for home.* There's still hope though: RUclips and Spotify now normalize volumes across different videos/songs, so now more compressed+louder masters will not stand out, and instead will just feel less dynamic. Again though: some genres can actually benefit from a bit of compression to achieve a bigger wall of sound, e.g. metal and electronic music, but it's a choice.
The thing about loudness is... you can get it without compression with a good amplifier. I spent more on the sound system attached to my TV than on the TV itself -- it's arguably more important. CDs potentially have much better sound quality than vinyl, and they have *much* more dynamic range available. It's sad that not only is it not being used, but we are just now going back towards the quality we had with vinyl. And it's nothing to do with the technology involved.
Indeed. Imagine watching a horror movie with a heavily compressed sound track. All the sounds and music has the same relative volume throughout the entire movie. That wouldn't be very effective. Our hearing works by differentiating loud and quiet, so dynamics are important. Some compression is ok. I'm not saying that all compression is bad, I'm talking about compression abuse. This is why heavily compressed music is so tiresome to listen to for prolonged periods compared to dynamic music. Another thing to point out is that compressed music will always sound less punchy than dynamic music that's manually turned up to the same volume using the volume knob. :)
Omnipop said, "Loved the explanations and the visuals! Especially liked the example of the french fries - going from the hot, pleasing and dynamic "crispy outside, soft inside" range of textures to the unappetizing and compressed "same all the way through" texture of the cold, rubbery fries." I agree. I also echo the commenter who said thanks for explaining in a way that non-audiophiles can understand. I know a little bit about sonics, but I'm no producer mixer, or engineer. So thanks for including us lay people who may still be interested in learning, but in a more general way.👍 It's obvious from this explanation that a balance needs to be struck between compression and dynamic range for best overall sound quality. I particularly liked the side-by-side comparison of normal and highly compressed (over-compressed, IMO) signals. Too much compression makes the music sound to me like it's being played through a pillow, while normal was a brighter, more interesting sound. But better still is skillful compression, increasing perceived loudness while maintaining "good" (a subjective term, and music is highly subjective) dynamic range. Thanks for enriching my understanding!🤠🖖
When music went from the Baroque to the Classical Era, The crescendo (the composers indicated the music should build in volume, rather than stay at the same volume or change abruptly from quiet to loud) became much more used. I made a world of difference in the emotional expression of the music.
Intresting topic. I think the place we listen music has to be taken into in account. I like taking a seat in my leather chair with a glass of wine and a (e-)cigarette and listen to the music through my silver face hifi set with old big 3 way speakers. In my case, I have great benefit from a very dynamic range. When I get in my car and drive my Civc over the high way with the rev counter at 3500 rpm, the game changes. the bussy engine will outgun all the quiet parts of my music. In this case, I will hearmore of my music when everything is compressed. Many people today will not do a lot of listening in the living room with a glass of wine but will do a lot of listening while driving in a car or listening through headphones while on a train. Ideal a cd would need to come with 2 discs, a dynamic one for my living room and a loud one for my car...
David Korr wow I never thought about it like that, I just assumed it was a hipster movement or something. Are the same techniques that are used to master a track to mp3. the same when putting a track on vinyl? Or is there a different technique?
Jaime Diaz The techniques are very different. CD/MP3 (digital) are just 1s & 0s being copied. Vinyl is analog. The master vinyl is a physical capture of the sound waves. Then the master is used to create a mold and the mass production of the records are made from the mold. ruclips.net/video/5OWEEFg6fTY/видео.html
Jaime Diaz The process of recording a song, for the most part, is the same. Mass producing a vinyl record is very different than mass producing a CD. ruclips.net/video/abnPMnKhnwI/видео.html
yes, i am aware of the loudness war and NOT an audio professional. i have had some professional exposure such as my friend who took me behind the scenes at drake-chenault when he worked there, he also liked to use dbx devices to attempt to undo the broadcasted signals of radio and concluded that it is nearly impossible at home. we fooled around with peak limiting and unlimiting and the use of noise reduction which of course employs comp/exp scenarios of various types, and sometimes includes eq pre and post to arrive at quiet recordings with dynamic range. ok, that was a run-on sentence. i would truly love it if compression were a control in the car stereo. one LP i bought right away was Analog Man by Joe Walsh. i figured the vinyl would be the way to the dynamic range such as was included on Joe's prior releases. i was wrong, it had been grossly stepped on by whoever mastered it. i love the songs but not the sound. a couple of weeks later, my friend Fritz Heiler (proprietor of Frizspeaks Loudspeakers) warned me to not buy the new Joe Walsh cd because it was squashed. too late Fritz! even if he had warned me, i would probably have bought the LP THINKING it wouldn't be squashed. so i burned a cd for myself form the digital download included with the LP (THANKS, Joe!) . it turns out that the download had less compression (to my ear) than the LP and probably the cd that Fritz warned me about. i find that to be curious. it was a couple of notches more satisfying than either the CD oe LP. well, thank you for the very enlightening video. i will share it with the other members of the LA/OC Audio Society (LAOCAS.net). ....hifitommy
There's a lot of opinions on the loudness war, that's for sure. Most of us who can remember those days of lps and later casettes, know how music used to sound like back then. We miss the dynamics. The younger generation though doesn't feel the same way. They seem to like the heavily compressed sound. A study even concluded that the vast majority of teenagers actually seemed to prefer low quality mp3 over high quality wav. They speculated that the reason they preferred the low quality was that they had become so used to listening to low quality music everywhere, that the high quality track stood out, and sounded "weird" to them, compared to what they were used to. It's much the same with compression I'm afraid. I doubt very much we'll ever get dynamic music the way we used to have. That said, fortunately things are looking a little bit better now that spotify and other streaming platforms are introducing a loudness ceiling on their services. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the video, and of course, feel free to share the video with your community! :)
its terrible now i understand why i keep wasting so much time trying to find a better higher quality version of a song that i like, even lossless versions sound just as bad as the 2mb sized ones sometimes , they should release both versions loud and high quality version for every song
I suppose so many people today are listening to "music" on their phones they probably prefer the boosted version. But when you are listening on a system that has power to spare, the difference becomes very apparent.
yeah, I think you're right about that. Some people even states that they are just too lazy to turn up the volume, so they prefer the music compressed. But as you say, it becomes VERY apparent on a good stereo system, or even at a club. The dynamic track will be a lot more punchy than the overly compressed track. If I were to volume match a dynamic track and an overly compressed track, and have them played loud then I'm sure most people would prefer the dynamic track. A certain amount of compression on various elements etc is good. Compression is a tool after all. I'm not against compression by any means, but I don't like the abuse of compression. Some music today are still being compressed and limited way too much. Many labels demand loud masters with just 4-5 dB of dynamic range. That's really squashed. It's just a wall of sound. There should be at least 6-7 dB in my opinion.
Mp3s are also to blame. I resent having to pay nearly full price for compressed-to-shit mp3s. If I buy a record online I want the WAV files to come with it. Or FLAC at the very least.
I'm glad that almost all streaming services have a LUFS limit around -14 LUFS so that when you master a track, you won't increase the volume that much!
Compact cassettes were also overdriven with "warmth" such that high frequencies disappeared when a kickdrum hit. Clipping was the first weapon used in the war
Thanks. It's still on my list of things to do. These longer videos take a long time to produce, and these days I'm doing mixing, mastering, feedback on music, autotuning etc every day after my day job, so there's just not enough hours in a day. I think I need to clone myself so that I can get everything done on time ;) So many plans, but very little time to get it done.. :)
Totally correct, these days I hate they use dehummers, dequantizers, delossfiers, pre-amps, AGC's, absolute high levelers, bass boost, limiters and compressors, natural dynamics effects, and so on to produce music. ITS HORRIBLE
Indeed. The problem is that louder always sounds better to humans. If you have two identical tracks, one in high quality and one in poor quality, and you play the one with poor quality louder, most people will prefer the one with poor quality, even though all the fine details and such are gone. I wish people would just use the volume knob instead of requesting squashed masters.
I have few CD-s from 1990's and the loudness war is visible there. For example I have Heather Nova's "Siren" (released in 1998) and it's compressed as hell, it's freaking triple the volume of other CD-s I have in my car... I have also Bruce Springsteen "Human Touch", an original 1993 release, and it's anything but compressed, but you gotta have a 1993 pressing, because 2000's presing is also there, and it's already less dynamic than the original. The same story is with Jean Michel Jarre's "Les Concerts En Chine" - I have two pressings - a 2014 or near and a 1995 version. Man... the 2014 remaster has had to be cut off from lots of frequencies/sounds that are on the original, beause when you compare the sane tracks in audio device similar to yours in this video, the waveforms are exactly like that - the 1995 pressing is pretty, nice MUSIC, while the 2014 version is simply a rectangle with straight horizontal lines... Well you know, for someone who is not in the topic the louder version will be just louder and probably better than the quieter but more dynamic version. But they will be unaware, that the older pressing is simply more true, more pleasant when listened loud, than the newest "freaking great remaster" which is enormously loud even at "1" Volume...
@Mike P I wanted to have an original, because it can be a good music, in lots of terms. For Springsteen I have only his "Human Touch" record, because this record has everything there is you need from a good piece of music. Great songs, some are only good :P, great instrumentalists and no distorted or compressed mastering. I always look at it in a way that the original, first release is what Springsteen agreed on, the way it sounds is the way he approved and wanted it to sound, so it's the closest to the artist's view, his emotions maybe, at that time... I'm kind of into that. The Bob Ludwig's 2015 remaster, if it is louder, then it's already not the way it was suppose to sound for the very moment it was created. So I probably won't be into it. I might know what you are talking about - similar story is with Metallica's "Master Of Puppets", meaning there is a later "Gold" edition or something, which is louder, but is not distorted, it is unfortunately less dynamic. I can't tell whose remaster it is, it is approved by Metallica for being "on time" with trends etc., but I don't like it if I know something was manipulated there ;) For the Springsteen's "Human Touch" I suggest that you could check the dynamic range of the 2015 version, with TTR Dynamic Range Meter or similar software device, but anyway - if you don't mind listeening it being less dynamic, then what can I do? ;) I love the 1993 original release, I always rip the CD-s with EAC (Exact Audio Copy) and listen to WAV files in my car, not mp3-s. If I know physically there is nothing to diss the record about, then I'm happy. Also - there is a site where people share the dynamic range of different releases of records through years - "dr.loudness-war.info/album/list" is the link. There are few of mine entries, one of them is the CK5300 "Human Touch" from 1992 (sorry not 1993). You can find pretty mucha nything there ever was released.
@Mike P Ye it is the DCC release of "Master Of Puppets" I'm talking about. I just like the original, more dynamic version better. The original CD is not much less dynamic than the vinyl release. I love wav-s because this is the way it was released, I used to look for FLACs but I don't see any point, it is half the data volume but I don't care about it at all. Today when there are pendrives that can store 2,500 songs on a 128GB flash memory, what's the point for me to care about compression... I love originals. For Metallica there are some of their releases that just are unbelieveably destroyed, for example the 2010 Japanese mini-LP release on CD of their "...And Justice For All" - I know it is deprived of huge amount of original sounds, fequencies, just to be louder... No, I don't like it. What's Fiio? ;)
@Mike P Ye I know what you are talking about when you say they're not loudness war'd to death. The DCC mastering of "MOP" is like that, it is a little louder, but it's not been cut off of half of the sounds, it's all there, just a little more compressed. But there are releases of their albums (Metallica's) where the extreme compression demanded to cut off like 20% of the sounds, nuances etc. Like these mini-LP's 2010 from Japan. Only to be louder, but it's really ridiculously compressed. The DCC is compressed more than the original, but there is still everything there, no hard limiting.
@Mike P Go to discogs.com - a last bastion of good sounding music. I always compare best sounding versions and but htem if they are available. No, in Poland there are no original releases in shops as well, you gotta trade them personally with people from discogs.com or similar deals. What you can find on the market today are the latest remasters, I recently bought some of CD-s from "old times" and they are brickwalled. That would be Jean Michel Jarre "Oxygene" and "Les Coencerts En Chine", Shakin Stevens "Greatest Hits", Whitney Houston etc. A lot of good music unfortunately bad sounding. Gotta look for originals on discogs.com ;)
I think the loudness war is taking music back to the baroque period harpsichord music. Like Bach, the musicians now have to add more counterpoint and ornaments in order to give the songs texture because they can’t use dynamics.
To quote Captain Kirk: "Will you turn that %$#@ NOISE down?" This is why I'm a fan of Folk/Acoustic/World music that (usually) doesn't resort to electronic massaging that reduces dynamic range.
It's a shame that we're still not able to fix this problem. :\ We have dug ourselves into a hole, and now it's so deep that it seems nearly impossible that we'll ever be able to get out of it..
Yes, the stems the GUITAR HERO team got were not as heinously compressed as the master files they had to use for the CD, which is unlistenable. So the GUITAR HERO version of that album sounds a lot better. But the production is still as dry as a nun's nasty.
A part of the story is also FCC specs about bandwidth. Too much deep bass could cause a radio station to wander into nearby stations, normalizing the music into a brick helped prevent that. Compression ratios, companders, thresholds, noise reduction, keypex gates, soft knees, "apparent" loudness, so much stuff plus all these new mastering plugins. Maybe they'll create radios that uncrunch signals in the same way the stations can send artist - title information
You obviously know your stuff! Personally I think radio as we know it is going to loose to internet radio eventually. It's already starting to happen. In Norway for example the FM net has been shut down and replaced by DAB+ and more and more people are using internet radio. I don't think FM will be around for that much longer to be honest.
The stranger it is when you listen to the radio newer music seems to have much louder bass than records from the 70s or 80s. There is more bass in to make the music sound better at low volumes, that's why amplifiers used to have loudness buttons for in the first place, you had the choise. It's like said by Jaydee Oldboy,it's uncomfortable to listen to modern music at high volume levels, partly by lack of dynamic range, and partly because bass gets way too loud. When a radio station plays an early 80s song and you listen to it loud you will turn the volume down when a modern song comes.
Interesting video. I have never before heard about this actually, neither thought about it. I wonder if there is some similarity with that many people want as much bass as possible, and can't live without loudness control on the amplifier and/or subwoofer? In my opinion it can be too much of bass because you loses the clearness of the music. I think strong bass also can be a way to hide the lack of sound quality of low quality stereo equipment. I wonder: one advantage with the compressed dynamic may be that when one wants to play really high volume there are no surprising peaks who could damage the speakers?
I imagine mine being kinda similar but this time, with me in the same office Stephen J. Cannell used to be in, this time me and my co-typewrite type out something like: "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the next generation of The One, The Only, Cannell Entertainment Inc.", after that I pull the paper out and toss it upwards into the air with style!!!!!!!! The paper goes animated and falls on to a stack of paper sheets forming the familar Paper C! "Cannell Entertainment" in Chiller Bold Italic font appears, with Inc. appearing in the same font via wipe-in effect!
It's funny how compression has been a big annoyance in music for a long time, but yet, when I watch TV, the sound fluctuates from too quiet (during the program, in particular when two characters are having a conversation) to too loud (during commercials, WOW are commercials loud these days) at a constant rate! There was a time the volume was even the whole way through a program.
They are all trying to make their ads stand out from the rest by winning the loudness war and making their ad louder than everyone else. Many people turn down the volume during the ads, so they try to make sure that you can hear the ad even so. It's damn annoying, that's for sure.
@@FireWalkMusic I definitely agree! I just learn to hit that mute button. I remember 30 some years ago when I got my first TV with a mute function. I never thought I'd need it but, all these years later, that button is the most important one on the remote!
I seem to be more vulnerable to the low volume range than most people. so the example shown only had the volume difference to me I could still hear all the elements.
You can hear that the kick and snares are flatter and not so punchy in the compressed version, since they are the same volume as everything else basically, while in the dynamic version they are much louder. If you volume matched the two and played them side by side you would notice the difference more clearly. Too bad I didn't include that in the video as well :\
The amount of compression on the first Ramones album was disgusting too. it sounded like someone was actively fading back and forth from the guitars to the vocals.
Yeah, it's "pumping" due to the compression. I'm surprised by how many people say they prefer loud and compressed tracks because they are too lazy to turn up the volume on their equipment. I think I failed to convey the main message here some how :\
Its a really nice insight but I have to disagree on completely sacraficing dynamic range. I mean thats the hard thing about it try to make ur track as loud as possible while still keeping as much dynamics as possible Its the balance between the two imo Great vid btw!
@@FireWalkMusic yess and its really hard lol I mean for me its pretty hard still but agree 100% that it would been much easier not having to deal with absurd volumes but in my scene it is just impossible to ignore that.. (talkin about heavy bass music)
I'm pretty on the fence when it comes to this issue. On one hand, I am of the mentality that demand drives quality. If people perceive things that are louder as being better, then its in the producers best interest to make it as loud as possible without damaging the mix. I do not subscribe to this being driven by any conspiracy, simply because if its what people what then its logical to do. In an ideal world, consumers would be greatly concerned with dynamic range, but it isn't where the majority interest lies and I don't think its very artistic to dictate what a persons taste should be (not implying that you are doing that in this video). I also truly believe that the best mixes in history have been done from the mid to late 90s on, I listen to music that has a lot of moving parts and big dynamic changes between sections, people are able to get the job done and still keep the mixes loud and impactful. Its just my opinion, great video none the less.
There is demand for loudness but changing the mastering because of that is the wrong approach. You can just turn your volume knob up as a listener to get all the benefits of loudness with none of the drawbacks. Even mobile phones get more than loud enough these days. Streaming services using dB Lufs already try to present music in a way that sounds equally loud regardless of the mastering but its far from perfect and sadly there are still some very damaging tricks you can use.
@@Currywurst-zo8oo It’s a weird issue. Nothing beats good dynamic range in the proper listening environment, but it’s so god damn annoying needing to constantly readjust the volume when listening at moderate or low levels. It’s especially bad with movies. I like to think at some point there will be a codec that allows for variable devices or environments, where a mastering engineer can deliver a set of mastering settings instead of only one final master.
If compression was partly used to deal with the different extent to which our ears react to different frequencies the wrong approach was used. Proper equalization would reduce the need for use of compression while minimizing the effect on dynamic range.
Some years ago, whenever you bought a home stereo system the amplifier would almost always have a "loudness" button. When pushing this button, it would amplify (EQ) the lower frequencies more when the music was played at low volume. Much the same way the progressive power steering on your car works. When standing still or moving very slowly, it apply very much assistance, but as you go faster, it becomes less and less to make sure you don't run off the rod just by tugging slightly on the steering wheel. I much prefer that approach myself. :)
This is one of the reasons I love independent artists or ones that care more about the quality of their music. They care not for the loudness wars and it shows in their music. I'm glad that it seems like the loudness wars are coming to an end. I believe it mostly affects mainstream music and most of that is crap anyway.
The war will never be over! Audio streaming services will suffer due to this, and may even die like the cd did. But other than that, this video was very informative and everything was explained very well!
It’s really just a matter of taste when you A B the compressed and uncompressed version I a 1,000% prefer the compressed it’s louder cleaner and crispy like I like it but I’m in my 20s🤷🏾♂️ . Younger people may not Prefer the overly dynamic sound to me it sounds unprofessional like if you released a song like that currently your getting skipped immediately, Because we have to turn it to the MAX to even get the base level of other songs which means when it’s in a playlist I have to run and turn down the next song that’s at the regular loudness. This mindset that everyone want to listen to music how people did in the 70s is the reason young people mix their own shit
great explanation! in my opinion the extreme use of compresors makse the musik boring to listen to. every part sounds the same and the "special thing" is missing
The textures and subtle differences in timbre within the tracks does indeed become more flat and boring. Also, when listening to a heavily compressed track on loud volume it becomes very tiresome to listen to compared to a track from the 80's for example. Our hearing works by differentiating loud and quiet elements and when everything is essentially the same volume it's like listening to someone who IS NOT TALKING NORMALLY BUT INSTEAD SCREAMING CONSTANTLY!!! :D Just think about it. When talking, you always put more pressure on certain words right? Some words are more toned down and quiet etc. This is how you express yourself. But if you're yelling out every word from the bottom of your lungs, it's very difficult to interpret your emotions. You just sound mad... It's impossible to know if you deeply care about what you're saying, if you're sad about some parts or whatever. It's just all the same, and indistinguishable. Unfortunately, it's the same with music.. We have just become so used to it, we don't really think about it any more. Nor does it seem that most people even care.
Well, I agree with most of what you say. I do however think compressing tracks can have advantages. Sure you won't get the best quality this way and of course one shouldn't take it too far. But compressing songs makes them louder without increasing the maximum power output (just the average). If people just wanna hang out, have a small party or whatever and listen to music on a portable Bluetooth speaker or whatever, the quality may not necessarily be so essential. But you wanna be able to hear the music despite background noises etc. And compressed music enables a speaker to play music a lot louder than non compressed music does with the same max power output. Now, of course if you wanna listen to music on a good sound system with good quality, compressing music isn't a very good idea. But I think the whole loudness war may also be related to the fact that the way people listen to music and what they expect from their music may have been changing. Of course these kinds of trends take some times to settle to a reasonable balance. But all I'm trying to say is that compression isn't necessarily a bad thing that makes music sound bad. You can take everything too far. But imagine you have a really silent track with a few really loud parts. In that case compressing it would probably make it significantly more enjoyable. Since very high dynamic ranges can also be quite annoying. You just need to find the right balance.
Indeed, I'm not by any means against compression. Besides EQ, compression is arguably one of the most important mixing tools available today. You can easily ruin a track if you abuse an EQ too. When used right, it can make a huge difference. The problem is that many people (still) tend to push it further than they should.
Of course... You certainly have to find some kind of balance and not just go on compress songs more and more until you have basically no dynamic range at all. I guess as most things in life, compression has it's advantages and disadvantages and the trick is just to only use it in a way that offers more advantages than disadvantages. Which of course depends a little one what you consider advantageous and what not, but considering they do it so their tracks are perceived as sounding better. It will eventually balance out, since you can only go so far until things are not perceived as sounding better no matter how loud you make 'em.
Exactly. On a second note, I think that some people purposely overdo it a bit because they know the content is going to be played a lot on very poor quality equipment such as cheap Bluetooth speakers, phones, cheap earbuds etc. When played on those devices, compressed music tend to sound better in a sense. The thing is: On a hifi system the textures would be audible, but not on such small and crappy systems, they will just disappear if the track is too dynamic. So there's that too.. It's a spiraling circle :\ I came over an article a while ago about an experiment being done on some teenagers. They were told to listen to some music that had very low bitrate mp3 (soundcloud quality) and then they played the same music again, but this time lossless and in high quality 24 bit 44100 khz uncompressed wav. They were then asked which version they preferred. They did this with a variety of music. The conclusion was that most of the teenagers actually preferred the low quality mp3 format.. They thought the wav files sounded "weird"... What happened here is most likely that they had become so used to listening to poor audio quality, that they had come to expect that this is how music should sound. When introduced to high quality, it therefore sounds strange and out of place compared to what they were used to. I'm afraid the same thing will be the case with compression and the loudness war. Even if a universal loudness ceiling were to be magically introduced tomorrow, and there is no need for a loudness war any more, I still don't think it would go away. Simply because it's been going on for so long. People have now come to expect music to sound this way now. :(
Yeah... I guess that's mainly it. Which is fair enough, if the majority of the people just care about it sounding reasonably good and them being able to play it as loud as possible on their low end sound system or simply squeezing out the last bit of bass their subwoofer can provide, which I believe many average people mainly care about. Which I can't necessarily exclude myself from in some cases. Like I say it can have advantages. But it's still a shame that the quality with which we can store and playback sound has increased so much in the last decade and we sort of just waste it. I guess I can understand if they compress songs on radio and/or spotify etc. But they could at least leave some dynamic range on CDs or if you buy in album in general. They should at least offer a well mixed versions for people who want the full quality. But I guess we'll see what the future brings. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to explain the topic "correctly". Oddly many people seem to make videos about this topic without fully understanding what they are actually talking about and exactly what compression does or just not explaining it very well and I think this is one of these cases where you kinda need to understand how it works in order to really understand the effect it has on the music.
Indeed, compression is just a tool like anything else. Don't blame the tool, blame the guy who's using it :) A hammer can be built to make houses. But if hammers were mainly used to attack people, then they would soon get a bad rep. That's what has happened to compression thanks to the loudness war. It was originally invented to fix problems, like a vocalist singing unevenly so that some words became too quiet and muffled and so on.
Nice video. I roughly F*** the loudness war. I do my best to have the most dynamic possible and maintain my track under -16 LUFS integrated. That said when I consider I should put a compressor somewhere I have not much hesitation. Compressors are tools and they are meant to be used. Just nothing should force you to compress like a hog. Back in the days Jean-Michel Jarre had a ton of dynamic on his album Oxygène and the other two are over compressed. That said I read that streaming services try to make dynamic track benefit in loudness over compressed tracks. I don't know if it's true or then I think I messed up somewhere because my tracks sound quieter than other people even though I tried to have a lot of dynamic. People will argue that you have no choice now than cope with loudness war because we're used to it. Then let us transition to a non loudness war music.
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FireWalk u r just amazing men u helped me alot love from india
ha yes I bet Hans Zimmer bribes engineers to boost his crappy music louder
You completely missed the most important thing: The listener owns the volume knob, so the whole "war" was and is an exercise in full retardiation: Listeners just turn the "gained" volume to their preferred level.... and end up with music, which in the words of a famous man "Sounds like dogshit!"
Well mixed music makes you turn the volume up. Poorly mixed music makes you turn the volume down.
True! :)
Damn I’ve never noticed this but I totally do this
@@RUclipsAIbot same
If you have to turn the volume up or down you're just going to change the song probably. Loud grabs the attention and the only people who really care are audiophiles. I also never get 'exhausted' from listening to music personally, if something is so loud that it hurts i just turn it down. Highs hurt more than lows though
HOLY FUCK
Finally, someone who can explain in a plain way for non-audiophiles to understand, while not going off on complete misinformation! Good job!
Thanks, much appreciated :)
Damn it... if you want more volume just use an amplifier to boost frequencies... companies shouldnt destroy dynamic range to get more volume
They all want their tracks to be louder than the others without touching the volume knob. It's the same as the commercials on TV: The signal level is exactly the same when watching a movie or commercials, but because the commercials are heavily compressed, they become much louder. They do so in order to get your attention, to make THEIR product stand out.
All this compression is a real problem not only in music unfortunately :\
I noticed ( i dont know if its realy true or in my ears) i tested yesterday for example thriller original from 1982 and thriller for 2012 remastered on tidal and i enjoy it more on the old original release. I could notice the separation on instruments a little better on the old release. I noticed some distorcion on the new release on high volume. Didnt noticed on the old release from the 80s Am i crazy mate? My phone is samsung galaxy s8 and my headphone is a brilliantly done kingston revolver s
When tracks get compressed, every instrument tend to become equally loud, so all the subtle nuances and textures tend to get lost. Our hearing depends on judging the difference between quiet and loud elements. When everything is the same volume it becomes tiresome to listen to and as I said, textures tend to get lost.
Imagine a conversation: someone talks quiet and loud throughout the conversation. You'll be able to judge much of what's going on based on which words they places more importance on by the volume etc. If someone is yelling constantly with the exact same volume, it's almost impossible to determine which parts they feel strongly about or not.
The same thing happens to music. Things that would otherwise stay in the background and just provide texture, will be brought up, so you're faced with a wall of sound which sounds exactly the same all the time.
it's difficult to explain, but what you have experienced is a good indication of this. The older tracks are more dynamic. Now, this will mean that they are also quieter than modern tracks, but as you said, you can always turn up the volume on your amp! Overall, the quality of those old tracks are much better. The music becomes much more enjoyable to listen to.
FireWalk i enjoyed more the old track and only clicked 1 time on the volume button on the phone to get equaly loud... to the newer one
If you are not satisfied you have an equalizer to adjust that.. dont understand this loud wars... 'the guy/ company' that begun this should have been out of business
You have opened my eyes to this subject.. i cant thank you enough. I have good earing and i can tell subtle differences... i have more fun using the old track... for example when the door closes if feels more natural on the old release than the new one ( thriller michael jackson)... damn it producers.. long live piracy if they are destroiyng the quality of the music im glad i can pirate that album
The ironic thing about the loudness wars is the inability to be able to listen to the affected music loudly. Optimally compressed music can have it's volume cranked up with comfort and ease to a louder degree than ridiculously over-compressed music, which can only be listened to comfortably at low volumes.... that's if its listenable at all.
Very true!
Overcompressed music actually sounds better when it plays in a car radio or quietly in the background, but it's when you have good headphones or speakers and you want to crank it up that it starts sounding like shite.
Inventor of hot water : Sounds shit on a decent car system as well. I can't stand listening to much music past about 1998 in my car at any kind of high volume level. Decided to crank up London Grammar and she sounded like she was singing through a fan.
@@FireWalkMusic there is still new music that has excellent dynamics but that is faaar away from radio
@@agamaz5650 Not to sound like someone who's stuck in the past (even though I am, okay you got me!) but can you recommend some music nowadays with good dynamics? I'm curious where all the good sounding music is. You can recommend any type of music. I listen to anything... well, maybe I shouldn't have said that. Darn you rap metal!
It always strikes me as ironic that we now have so much more dynamic range available in the digital realm, and what do we do? We work very hard to destroy it!
Indeed!
With the extra loudness and decreased dynamic range, it makes music very fatiguing to listen to for any length of time. I much prefer to listen to an older recording.
That's absolutely correct.
And if you're someone who likes to listen carefully to the things going on in the background, the extra loudness totally ruins that idea.
Videos like this is why I love RUclips. I learned something I never knew was a thing.
Glad you liked the video :)
I'm a classical double bassist, and a PhD mathematician. I like the ideas here, and I like the quite accurate science. Thank you.
I do not like any music uniformly loud. And the loudness war has done much damage to music and more to the ears of the listeners.
You're welcome. Indeed, I totally agree. Most devices has something called a volume knob. Despite that, a lot of people argue that they prefer their music compressed, because they're too lazy to turn up the volume manually. This is especially true among young people. They don't know what they are missing, but those of us who remember the days when music used to have dynamics do. :)
Weird flex but ok
Albums are usually engineered for the masses. Most people don't even have a good sound system at home and use a stock stereo in the car which has a limited frequency range. A recording that is made to be loud would sound better on a sub par system but not necessarily on quality equipment that can play a full range.
True :)
The educated cow mocks the undegreed cattle within the same pen
I totally disagree. It's true that loudness gives the impression of "better recording". But a good quality master, with full dynamic range will sound better anywhere, anywhere, even in the speakers of a laptop, compressed music clips and saturates the speakers, music with dynamic range let them breath, any system will sound better, from the mono speaker of your cellphone to the high end rig. This idea of, we make music for budget system, that's why we make it loud is bullshit, just a miserable justification to convince you that you cannot enjoy full dynamic range music if you don't have a hi Fi equipment, bullshit.
I thought the analogy with food would be more like "today we are getting used to food being tastier and tastier, for example using too much salt and sugar, so we can no longer appretiate little nuances in flavour".
That would also have worked :D
So this explains why the loudness button on my amplifier from the 1980s boosted the bass. It was designed for listening at low volumes because those frequencies couldn’t be heard as clearly, thank you!
I hate extreme signal compression, and I hate extreme file compression. I hate extreme compression.
unless it's HVEC or FLAC then it's cool
Pink Floyd has done an excellent job of remastering in their high-resolution Immersion sets. Incredible dynamic range. In a WAV editor the thing peaked in the high 60s.
Not only is all this information invaluable, you make it incredibly easy to digest and learn!
Thanks! glad you liked the video :)
i think a track should have sufficient dynamic range otherwise track will sound dead like all elements are playing at a same volume..
Agreed!
+FireWalk Sir please make a video on mastering i need it very much..:(
@Mark Donald yup its like u can be dynamic and loud af at the same time its just really challenging
@Mark Donald oh yeah tbh im in heavy bass music scene and its kindof hard to get that loud as the professionals but imo its just more knowledge to gain so im fine with it
Loved the explanations and the visuals! Especially liked the example of the french fries - going from the hot, pleasing and dynamic "crispy outside, soft inside" range of textures to the unappetizing and compressed "same all the way through" texture of the cold, rubbery fries. One thing though: Around 8:35, seems like it might've been helpful to turn the overall track volume up a bit on the Normal track, to get more of the loudest elements of it closer to where they're at in the Compressed version, so people could then focus more on the greater dynamic range in Normal. As it is, I think some folks who are struggling with the concept might simply conclude that the Normal one just sounds "quieter" overall, when in fact there's more to it than than.
But hey, again great job on putting this video together!
Thanks, glad you liked it. I agree 100%. Should have volume matched them to better show it off. I was running out of time so unfortunately I didn't have the time to review the video good enough. I usually let it sit and then watch it several times over the next few days. This time it took so long to make the video that it was actually finished the very same day it was supposed to be published. It's really eating at me. Putting so many hours into it and then overlook a mistake like that. :\ Still, you can clearly hear the difference in the low end especially. All though slightly quieter, the original is much punchier and crisper. :)
I hope the new version of youtube creator studio will allow me to edit volumes on published videos. Perhaps I can then go back and improve it. :)
FireWalk Well, if it doesn't let you, I wouldn't sweat it. It's a minor thing really. I'm sure most people will get it, especially if they've paid attention to the rest of the video. Keep up the great work!
I kind of wish more EDM experimented with dynamics instead of pumping the master up to 0. Imagine the perfect drop with the perfect dynamics. It could be legendary. There's barely any contrast in modern drops because shit's just too loud.
Indeed :)
Jon Hopkins - Emerald Rush
The Loudness war forces me to master my tracks to the point of losing some desirable dynamics that would have given it a warmer and punchier sound (based on the demands of the market). Though, I'm already perceiving some changes as most productions I listen to are now maintain as much dynamics as possible to give the track a better expression when listened to.
Making loudness means adding more salt to urs food, it doesnot means u get a better taste
Indeed. The problem with the loudness war is that it's been going on for so long that people have been used to all that "salt". If you try to reduce the salt now, they will think there's something wrong with the "food".. :\
bleh it made it worse than we though its backfires or misfires the sound hertz frequency. this must been the loudnees wars moment round 2.
Same thing goes for sugar. I'm from The Netherlands, and when I go to the US, I feel that most food is waaay too sweet. It gives a uniform taste to almost everything, but it destroys the diversity of the different foods.
The same goes for music with the loudness.
It's not problem of salt, the problem is that a perfect mastered track(every genre of musics) will play like crap on most systems. Producers should give 2 mastered tracks, one for good desktop systems and another for mobile.
Obviously it's useless to have a 24 bit 192 flac for a club edm music...
@@FireWalkMusic best explanation (exept ida with évolution but that is off music)
It's bad to lose dynamic! Thank you for the presentation!
I'm barely starting off a career in music, this type of videos are quite useful. Thanks!
You're welcome! :)
Thank you very much for this simple yet informative explanation. I would like to add that some music producers, in addition to the compression, they amplify the both extremes of the frequency spectrum and the result is a loud and a V-shaped sound signature.
Four years later, and the loudness war is still going strong in Japan. So many great artists composing amazing music over there, only to have it come out on record like a giant mushy turd. Such a waste.
Has anyone ever told you that you sound just like the How It's Made narrator?
I think you may just be the first one today :D
FireWalk yeah I figured it wasn't a revelation.
hehe :D
@@FireWalkMusic Has anyone ever told you you sound like CaptainDisillusion?
It's not his actual voice, man, if you'd've checked his Fiver, y'all be knowing by now that he's a norweagian and all the vids are voiced over by the dude who's voice you clearly hearing here :) But who gives a fuck, these vids are pure gold any fuckin way. Already got your Fiver mix/master gig in sight for my next track , mr FireWalk :) So, y'all should check his stuff out,man, this shit's gold :D
You deserve more subs man. Great work!
Thank you, much appreciated! :)
People used to tell me that I can't make great commercial music without smashing the hell out of it... which I think depends on the market you're after. Thankfully, we're starting to appreciate the concept of dynamic range more, but there's still much progress to be made in bringing beautiful music back to mainstream. For me, I'd rather temper the fire than drench it with gasoline - you have more control over the flame's form. Such is the same with composition; the loudness war has prevented us from being able to see the forest for the trees.
Indeed. I remember back in the late 90's / early 2000's when Trance music had it's golden years. All the tracks were punchy and had dynamics. Today most trance tracks are squashed to death. With the exception of some psy trance, most of the uplifting stuff is very tiresome to listen to due to the lack of dynamics. When looking at the waveform it's mostly a solid wall from start to finish.
Now that spotify etc has introduced a loudness ceiling of -14 lufs (if memmory serves) perhaps this will help force back the dynamics. After all, when a loudness ceiling is introduced, a dynamic track that's brought up in volume will always sound better than a heavily compressed track that's brought down in volume. That alone should be a good reason to not overdo the compression.
one day music will not be about how loud it is but about how silent a track is, what goes up must come down
I love this video and have watched it many times. I agree with your sentiments completely, but I have to disagree when you said that the loudness war is letting up. Newer music for the most part is still very compressed here in 2024. You’d think that because streaming services play their songs at a fixed volume, it would end the demand for overly compressed songs. But unfortunately, at this point people are so used to that loud, flat sound that it’s what many of them have grown to like. Especially the younger generation. I’m sad to say that I don’t see music generally becoming dynamic again.
I love the attention to detail you put into your videos. The video was very entertaining to watch, and very informative. Thanks
yes, he covered all the bases in a preferable and complete way.
...hifitommy
A little myth busting:
Vinyl vs CD.
Analog vs digital.
The *recording* is the same for both, and it's *digital*.
So the Vinyl's source is digital too.
Masters are different because the media is used differently.
The CD master is *usually* more compressed+louder just because it's the media the ends up being used in random (often noisy) places, while vinyl is guaranteed to be listened at home, so you can preserve a bit more of dynamics, and the final user can turn up the volume of the speakers instead.
Some genres can actually benefit from a bit of compression to achieve a bigger wall of sound, e.g. metal and electronic music, but it's a choice.
Another limitation of vinyl is the lathe that physically engraves it.
Yes, it's an analog device, but it's limited: you have to be careful with highs and lows. High peaks could literally make your vinyl skip, so you have to limit them; stereo lows can split the grooves of the record, so they are often collapsed to mono in the master.
CD does't have these limitations.
Another way the CD potential is wasted: the dynamic range of vinyl as a medium is about 50dB, while a 16bit CD's is 96dB!
You *can* do a more dynamic master on CD, but sadly you don't, because your CD ends up as an MP3, listened through cheap headphones in a noisy environment, so a flatter louder master will be perceived as better.
*For bands out there that prefer the master that ends up on the vinyl, you can burn that one on CD, or have two CD versions: a standard one for noisy places and a dynamic one for home.*
There's still hope though: RUclips and Spotify now normalize volumes across different videos/songs, so now more compressed+louder masters will not stand out, and instead will just feel less dynamic.
Again though: some genres can actually benefit from a bit of compression to achieve a bigger wall of sound, e.g. metal and electronic music, but it's a choice.
The thing about loudness is... you can get it without compression with a good amplifier. I spent more on the sound system attached to my TV than on the TV itself -- it's arguably more important. CDs potentially have much better sound quality than vinyl, and they have *much* more dynamic range available. It's sad that not only is it not being used, but we are just now going back towards the quality we had with vinyl. And it's nothing to do with the technology involved.
Indeed. Imagine watching a horror movie with a heavily compressed sound track. All the sounds and music has the same relative volume throughout the entire movie. That wouldn't be very effective.
Our hearing works by differentiating loud and quiet, so dynamics are important. Some compression is ok. I'm not saying that all compression is bad, I'm talking about compression abuse. This is why heavily compressed music is so tiresome to listen to for prolonged periods compared to dynamic music.
Another thing to point out is that compressed music will always sound less punchy than dynamic music that's manually turned up to the same volume using the volume knob. :)
Never thought about that but its crystal clear when you hear them side by side. Dynamic range gets destroyed
Indeed. :\
The lady in the first clip: " I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'm DOING!!"
Omnipop said, "Loved the explanations and the visuals! Especially liked the example of the french fries - going from the hot, pleasing and dynamic "crispy outside, soft inside" range of textures to the unappetizing and compressed "same all the way through" texture of the cold, rubbery fries."
I agree. I also echo the commenter who said thanks for explaining in a way that non-audiophiles can understand. I know a little bit about sonics, but I'm no producer mixer, or engineer. So thanks for including us lay people who may still be interested in learning, but in a more general way.👍
It's obvious from this explanation that a balance needs to be struck between compression and dynamic range for best overall sound quality. I particularly liked the side-by-side comparison of normal and highly compressed (over-compressed, IMO) signals. Too much compression makes the music sound to me like it's being played through a pillow, while normal was a brighter, more interesting sound. But better still is skillful compression, increasing perceived loudness while maintaining "good" (a subjective term, and music is highly subjective) dynamic range.
Thanks for enriching my understanding!🤠🖖
Glad you liked the video, and yes, that's exactly right, there needs to be a good balance between dynamics and compression. :)
Very well explained sir ,Thank you so much for your help !
Thanks! Glad you liked it :)
That bass song in the intro oof! I was vibing
:D
When music went from the Baroque to the Classical Era, The crescendo (the composers indicated the music should build in volume, rather than stay at the same volume or change abruptly from quiet to loud) became much more used. I made a world of difference in the emotional expression of the music.
Intresting topic. I think the place we listen music has to be taken into in account. I like taking a seat in my leather chair with a glass of wine and a (e-)cigarette and listen to the music through my silver face hifi set with old big 3 way speakers. In my case, I have great benefit from a very dynamic range. When I get in my car and drive my Civc over the high way with the rev counter at 3500 rpm, the game changes. the bussy engine will outgun all the quiet parts of my music. In this case, I will hearmore of my music when everything is compressed. Many people today will not do a lot of listening in the living room with a glass of wine but will do a lot of listening while driving in a car or listening through headphones while on a train. Ideal a cd would need to come with 2 discs, a dynamic one for my living room and a loud one for my car...
Indeed, you have some good points there! :)
Good media players have compressors, no special formatting of the music is needed.
I just hang on the 3rd gear on the highway with my rev counter at 8500 rpm, and the sound of the engine drowns away my cars stereo even at max volume
Excellently explained. Subscribed.
AWESOME Explanation
Glad you liked it :)
And this is exactly why there is a resurgence in vinyl.
David Korr wow I never thought about it like that, I just assumed it was a hipster movement or something. Are the same techniques that are used to master a track to mp3. the same when putting a track on vinyl? Or is there a different technique?
Jaime Diaz : Same, probably because I've not purchased a CD since 2001. I've not heard how bad its gotten and just blamed shitty MP3 rips.
Jaime Diaz The techniques are very different. CD/MP3 (digital) are just 1s & 0s being copied.
Vinyl is analog. The master vinyl is a physical capture of the sound waves. Then the master is used to create a mold and the mass production of the records are made from the mold.
ruclips.net/video/5OWEEFg6fTY/видео.html
Jaime Diaz
The process of recording a song, for the most part, is the same. Mass producing a vinyl record is very different than mass producing a CD.
ruclips.net/video/abnPMnKhnwI/видео.html
I like both uncompressed digital (CDs, FLAC, ect) and vinyl. Digital audio gets a bad rap because of cheap Digital to Analog Converters aka DACs.
yes, i am aware of the loudness war and NOT an audio professional. i have had some professional exposure such as my friend who took me behind the scenes at drake-chenault when he worked there, he also liked to use dbx devices to attempt to undo the broadcasted signals of radio and concluded that it is nearly impossible at home. we fooled around with peak limiting and unlimiting and the use of noise reduction which of course employs comp/exp scenarios of various types, and sometimes includes eq pre and post to arrive at quiet recordings with dynamic range. ok, that was a run-on sentence. i would truly love it if compression were a control in the car stereo.
one LP i bought right away was Analog Man by Joe Walsh. i figured the vinyl would be the way to the dynamic range such as was included on Joe's prior releases. i was wrong, it had been grossly stepped on by whoever mastered it. i love the songs but not the sound. a couple of weeks later, my friend Fritz Heiler (proprietor of Frizspeaks Loudspeakers) warned me to not buy the new Joe Walsh cd because it was squashed. too late Fritz! even if he had warned me, i would probably have bought the LP THINKING it wouldn't be squashed.
so i burned a cd for myself form the digital download included with the LP (THANKS, Joe!) . it turns out that the download had less compression (to my ear) than the LP and probably the cd that Fritz warned me about. i find that to be curious. it was a couple of notches more satisfying than either the CD oe LP.
well, thank you for the very enlightening video. i will share it with the other members of the LA/OC Audio Society (LAOCAS.net).
....hifitommy
There's a lot of opinions on the loudness war, that's for sure. Most of us who can remember those days of lps and later casettes, know how music used to sound like back then. We miss the dynamics.
The younger generation though doesn't feel the same way. They seem to like the heavily compressed sound. A study even concluded that the vast majority of teenagers actually seemed to prefer low quality mp3 over high quality wav. They speculated that the reason they preferred the low quality was that they had become so used to listening to low quality music everywhere, that the high quality track stood out, and sounded "weird" to them, compared to what they were used to. It's much the same with compression I'm afraid. I doubt very much we'll ever get dynamic music the way we used to have.
That said, fortunately things are looking a little bit better now that spotify and other streaming platforms are introducing a loudness ceiling on their services.
I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the video, and of course, feel free to share the video with your community! :)
its terrible now i understand why i keep wasting so much time trying to find a better higher quality version of a song that i like, even lossless versions sound just as bad as the 2mb sized ones sometimes , they should release both versions loud and high quality version for every song
omg good idea
That would be such a good idea. I would genuinely pay a premium price for a subscription like that.
8:02 no wonder the DJ / producer stuff of today sounds to boring. Just a wall of noise
over massive beat but nothing really feels to happen.
Great video. Thanks for posting.
You're welcome :)
I didn't think a video about sound mixing will make me hungry. Damn you I want french fries now!
Now I understand why on those miles records, all his notes would sound fine, then when he hit those high E’s with his mute, they would pierce my ears
I suppose so many people today are listening to "music" on their phones they probably prefer the boosted version. But when you are listening on a system that has power to spare, the difference becomes very apparent.
yeah, I think you're right about that. Some people even states that they are just too lazy to turn up the volume, so they prefer the music compressed.
But as you say, it becomes VERY apparent on a good stereo system, or even at a club. The dynamic track will be a lot more punchy than the overly compressed track.
If I were to volume match a dynamic track and an overly compressed track, and have them played loud then I'm sure most people would prefer the dynamic track.
A certain amount of compression on various elements etc is good. Compression is a tool after all. I'm not against compression by any means, but I don't like the abuse of compression. Some music today are still being compressed and limited way too much. Many labels demand loud masters with just 4-5 dB of dynamic range. That's really squashed. It's just a wall of sound. There should be at least 6-7 dB in my opinion.
Mp3s are also to blame. I resent having to pay nearly full price for compressed-to-shit mp3s. If I buy a record online I want the WAV files to come with it. Or FLAC at the very least.
I'm glad that almost all streaming services have a LUFS limit around -14 LUFS so that when you master a track, you won't increase the volume that much!
Indeed! :)
Thanks for the great video!
You're welcome :)
Awesome video! You explained very well! I didnt know anything about this and now i do :P thanks
Thanks, glad you liked it! :)
Compact cassettes were also overdriven with "warmth" such that high frequencies disappeared when a kickdrum hit. Clipping was the first weapon used in the war
Interesting, always wondered about this, good video.
Glad you liked it :)
great explanation and visuals
Thanks :)
Dude i love your videos.
Thanks, glad to hear it :)
This is another great video you have, BUT... where is the sequel to it you mentioned you were going to make? :) Thank you for sharing this!
Thanks. It's still on my list of things to do. These longer videos take a long time to produce, and these days I'm doing mixing, mastering, feedback on music, autotuning etc every day after my day job, so there's just not enough hours in a day. I think I need to clone myself so that I can get everything done on time ;)
So many plans, but very little time to get it done.. :)
Totally correct, these days I hate they use dehummers, dequantizers, delossfiers, pre-amps, AGC's, absolute high levelers, bass boost, limiters and compressors, natural dynamics effects, and so on to produce music. ITS HORRIBLE
Indeed. The problem is that louder always sounds better to humans. If you have two identical tracks, one in high quality and one in poor quality, and you play the one with poor quality louder, most people will prefer the one with poor quality, even though all the fine details and such are gone.
I wish people would just use the volume knob instead of requesting squashed masters.
thank you so much for making this video, subbed
You're welcome :)
This explains why my 84' CD copy of Magical Mystery Tour is quieter than my 09' CD copy of Abey Road.
I have few CD-s from 1990's and the loudness war is visible there. For example I have Heather Nova's "Siren" (released in 1998) and it's compressed as hell, it's freaking triple the volume of other CD-s I have in my car... I have also Bruce Springsteen "Human Touch", an original 1993 release, and it's anything but compressed, but you gotta have a 1993 pressing, because 2000's presing is also there, and it's already less dynamic than the original. The same story is with Jean Michel Jarre's "Les Concerts En Chine" - I have two pressings - a 2014 or near and a 1995 version. Man... the 2014 remaster has had to be cut off from lots of frequencies/sounds that are on the original, beause when you compare the sane tracks in audio device similar to yours in this video, the waveforms are exactly like that - the 1995 pressing is pretty, nice MUSIC, while the 2014 version is simply a rectangle with straight horizontal lines... Well you know, for someone who is not in the topic the louder version will be just louder and probably better than the quieter but more dynamic version. But they will be unaware, that the older pressing is simply more true, more pleasant when listened loud, than the newest "freaking great remaster" which is enormously loud even at "1" Volume...
@Mike P I wanted to have an original, because it can be a good music, in lots of terms. For Springsteen I have only his "Human Touch" record, because this record has everything there is you need from a good piece of music. Great songs, some are only good :P, great instrumentalists and no distorted or compressed mastering. I always look at it in a way that the original, first release is what Springsteen agreed on, the way it sounds is the way he approved and wanted it to sound, so it's the closest to the artist's view, his emotions maybe, at that time... I'm kind of into that. The Bob Ludwig's 2015 remaster, if it is louder, then it's already not the way it was suppose to sound for the very moment it was created. So I probably won't be into it. I might know what you are talking about - similar story is with Metallica's "Master Of Puppets", meaning there is a later "Gold" edition or something, which is louder, but is not distorted, it is unfortunately less dynamic. I can't tell whose remaster it is, it is approved by Metallica for being "on time" with trends etc., but I don't like it if I know something was manipulated there ;) For the Springsteen's "Human Touch" I suggest that you could check the dynamic range of the 2015 version, with TTR Dynamic Range Meter or similar software device, but anyway - if you don't mind listeening it being less dynamic, then what can I do? ;) I love the 1993 original release, I always rip the CD-s with EAC (Exact Audio Copy) and listen to WAV files in my car, not mp3-s. If I know physically there is nothing to diss the record about, then I'm happy. Also - there is a site where people share the dynamic range of different releases of records through years - "dr.loudness-war.info/album/list" is the link. There are few of mine entries, one of them is the CK5300 "Human Touch" from 1992 (sorry not 1993). You can find pretty mucha nything there ever was released.
@Mike P Ye it is the DCC release of "Master Of Puppets" I'm talking about. I just like the original, more dynamic version better. The original CD is not much less dynamic than the vinyl release. I love wav-s because this is the way it was released, I used to look for FLACs but I don't see any point, it is half the data volume but I don't care about it at all. Today when there are pendrives that can store 2,500 songs on a 128GB flash memory, what's the point for me to care about compression... I love originals. For Metallica there are some of their releases that just are unbelieveably destroyed, for example the 2010 Japanese mini-LP release on CD of their "...And Justice For All" - I know it is deprived of huge amount of original sounds, fequencies, just to be louder... No, I don't like it. What's Fiio? ;)
@Mike P Ye I know what you are talking about when you say they're not loudness war'd to death. The DCC mastering of "MOP" is like that, it is a little louder, but it's not been cut off of half of the sounds, it's all there, just a little more compressed. But there are releases of their albums (Metallica's) where the extreme compression demanded to cut off like 20% of the sounds, nuances etc. Like these mini-LP's 2010 from Japan. Only to be louder, but it's really ridiculously compressed. The DCC is compressed more than the original, but there is still everything there, no hard limiting.
@Mike P Go to discogs.com - a last bastion of good sounding music. I always compare best sounding versions and but htem if they are available. No, in Poland there are no original releases in shops as well, you gotta trade them personally with people from discogs.com or similar deals. What you can find on the market today are the latest remasters, I recently bought some of CD-s from "old times" and they are brickwalled. That would be Jean Michel Jarre "Oxygene" and "Les Coencerts En Chine", Shakin Stevens "Greatest Hits", Whitney Houston etc. A lot of good music unfortunately bad sounding. Gotta look for originals on discogs.com ;)
I think the loudness war is taking music back to the baroque period harpsichord music. Like Bach, the musicians now have to add more counterpoint and ornaments in order to give the songs texture because they can’t use dynamics.
Interesting theory!
Thank you for this amazing video!
You're welcome :)
To quote Captain Kirk: "Will you turn that %$#@ NOISE down?" This is why I'm a fan of Folk/Acoustic/World music that (usually) doesn't resort to electronic massaging that reduces dynamic range.
It's a shame that we're still not able to fix this problem. :\ We have dug ourselves into a hole, and now it's so deep that it seems nearly impossible that we'll ever be able to get out of it..
LOVE every vid you put out!
Wish you had more video output I learn so much from every damn vid you put out.
Thnx for the upload :]
Thank you! Much appreciated :) It takes me a long time to make just one single video. I wish I had more time so that I could make even more. :)
Great vid. Very informative :)
There's a nice mix of Death Magnetic used in the video game Guitar Hero I believe. It was better than the original :D
Yes, the stems the GUITAR HERO team got were not as heinously compressed as the master files they had to use for the CD, which is unlistenable.
So the GUITAR HERO version of that album sounds a lot better. But the production is still as dry as a nun's nasty.
A part of the story is also FCC specs about bandwidth. Too much deep bass could cause a radio station to wander into nearby stations, normalizing the music into a brick helped prevent that. Compression ratios, companders, thresholds, noise reduction, keypex gates, soft knees, "apparent" loudness, so much stuff plus all these new mastering plugins. Maybe they'll create radios that uncrunch signals in the same way the stations can send artist - title information
You obviously know your stuff! Personally I think radio as we know it is going to loose to internet radio eventually. It's already starting to happen. In Norway for example the FM net has been shut down and replaced by DAB+ and more and more people are using internet radio. I don't think FM will be around for that much longer to be honest.
The stranger it is when you listen to the radio newer music seems to have much louder bass than records from the 70s or 80s.
There is more bass in to make the music sound better at low volumes, that's why amplifiers used to have loudness buttons for in the first place, you had the choise.
It's like said by Jaydee Oldboy,it's uncomfortable to listen to modern music at high volume levels, partly by lack of dynamic range, and partly because bass gets way too loud.
When a radio station plays an early 80s song and you listen to it loud you will turn the volume down when a modern song comes.
Addicted to your videos!!!!
Glad to hear it! :D
I have CDs of the Japanese singer Mariko Ide that are loud, though I can’t complain of owning her music and jamming out to it.
War? Who needs war?
thanks for the videos..it was so useful..
You're welcome :)
Interesting video. I have never before heard about this actually, neither thought about it. I wonder if there is some similarity with that many people want as much bass as possible, and can't live without loudness control on the amplifier and/or subwoofer?
In my opinion it can be too much of bass because you loses the clearness of the music. I think strong bass also can be a way to hide the lack of sound quality of low quality stereo equipment.
I wonder: one advantage with the compressed dynamic may be that when one wants to play really high volume there are no surprising peaks who could damage the speakers?
Weird that no one in the comments noted that this video is louder than others on youtube.
Oh the irony! :D
Thank you!
You're welcome :)
I imagine mine being kinda similar but this time, with me in the same office Stephen J. Cannell used to be in, this time me and my co-typewrite type out something like: "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the next generation of The One, The Only, Cannell Entertainment Inc.", after that I pull the paper out and toss it upwards into the air with style!!!!!!!! The paper goes animated and falls on to a stack of paper sheets forming the familar Paper C! "Cannell Entertainment" in Chiller Bold Italic font appears, with Inc. appearing in the same font via wipe-in effect!
It's funny how compression has been a big annoyance in music for a long time, but yet, when I watch TV, the sound fluctuates from too quiet (during the program, in particular when two characters are having a conversation) to too loud (during commercials, WOW are commercials loud these days) at a constant rate! There was a time the volume was even the whole way through a program.
They are all trying to make their ads stand out from the rest by winning the loudness war and making their ad louder than everyone else. Many people turn down the volume during the ads, so they try to make sure that you can hear the ad even so.
It's damn annoying, that's for sure.
@@FireWalkMusic I definitely agree! I just learn to hit that mute button. I remember 30 some years ago when I got my first TV with a mute function. I never thought I'd need it but, all these years later, that button is the most important one on the remote!
Compression indeed can ruin your track when overdone. On the other hand it's a useful tool to balance out loud and silent parts.
S. Knight they don’t always need balancing though
Point to retain : get the vinyl. Compare Hardwired by Metallica, retail vs vinyl. And enjoy. :)
I seem to be more vulnerable to the low volume range than most people. so the example shown only had the volume difference to me I could still hear all the elements.
You can hear that the kick and snares are flatter and not so punchy in the compressed version, since they are the same volume as everything else basically, while in the dynamic version they are much louder. If you volume matched the two and played them side by side you would notice the difference more clearly. Too bad I didn't include that in the video as well :\
I prefer compressed music.
thank you for giving me an explanation.
You are amazing man :)
So are you! :D
The amount of compression on the first Ramones album was disgusting too. it sounded like someone was actively fading back and forth from the guitars to the vocals.
Yeah, it's "pumping" due to the compression. I'm surprised by how many people say they prefer loud and compressed tracks because they are too lazy to turn up the volume on their equipment. I think I failed to convey the main message here some how :\
Its a really nice insight but I have to disagree on completely sacraficing dynamic range. I mean thats the hard thing about it try to make ur track as loud as possible while still keeping as much dynamics as possible
Its the balance between the two imo
Great vid btw!
Thanks! Indeed, it's important to find the right balance :)
@@FireWalkMusic yess and its really hard lol I mean for me its pretty hard still but agree 100% that it would been much easier not having to deal with absurd volumes but in my scene it is just impossible to ignore that.. (talkin about heavy bass music)
I'm pretty on the fence when it comes to this issue. On one hand, I am of the mentality that demand drives quality. If people perceive things that are louder as being better, then its in the producers best interest to make it as loud as possible without damaging the mix. I do not subscribe to this being driven by any conspiracy, simply because if its what people what then its logical to do. In an ideal world, consumers would be greatly concerned with dynamic range, but it isn't where the majority interest lies and I don't think its very artistic to dictate what a persons taste should be (not implying that you are doing that in this video). I also truly believe that the best mixes in history have been done from the mid to late 90s on, I listen to music that has a lot of moving parts and big dynamic changes between sections, people are able to get the job done and still keep the mixes loud and impactful. Its just my opinion, great video none the less.
There is demand for loudness but changing the mastering because of that is the wrong approach. You can just turn your volume knob up as a listener to get all the benefits of loudness with none of the drawbacks. Even mobile phones get more than loud enough these days.
Streaming services using dB Lufs already try to present music in a way that sounds equally loud regardless of the mastering but its far from perfect and sadly there are still some very damaging tricks you can use.
@@Currywurst-zo8oo It’s a weird issue. Nothing beats good dynamic range in the proper listening environment, but it’s so god damn annoying needing to constantly readjust the volume when listening at moderate or low levels. It’s especially bad with movies.
I like to think at some point there will be a codec that allows for variable devices or environments, where a mastering engineer can deliver a set of mastering settings instead of only one final master.
If compression was partly used to deal with the different extent to which our ears react to different frequencies the wrong approach was used. Proper equalization would reduce the need for use of compression while minimizing the effect on dynamic range.
Some years ago, whenever you bought a home stereo system the amplifier would almost always have a "loudness" button. When pushing this button, it would amplify (EQ) the lower frequencies more when the music was played at low volume. Much the same way the progressive power steering on your car works. When standing still or moving very slowly, it apply very much assistance, but as you go faster, it becomes less and less to make sure you don't run off the rod just by tugging slightly on the steering wheel. I much prefer that approach myself. :)
This is one of the reasons I love independent artists or ones that care more about the quality of their music. They care not for the loudness wars and it shows in their music. I'm glad that it seems like the loudness wars are coming to an end. I believe it mostly affects mainstream music and most of that is crap anyway.
Indeed! :)
The war will never be over!
Audio streaming services will suffer due to this, and may even die like the cd did.
But other than that, this video was very informative and everything was explained very well!
How is the CD dead when they are still freely available?
Dave Pensado needs to watch this video.
Really depends on what you are listening too.....
Indeed! :)
Amazing!!
Thank you Jack! :)
It’s really just a matter of taste when you A B the compressed and uncompressed version I a 1,000% prefer the compressed it’s louder cleaner and crispy like I like it but I’m in my 20s🤷🏾♂️ . Younger people may not Prefer the overly dynamic sound to me it sounds unprofessional like if you released a song like that currently your getting skipped immediately, Because we have to turn it to the MAX to even get the base level of other songs which means when it’s in a playlist I have to run and turn down the next song that’s at the regular loudness. This mindset that everyone want to listen to music how people did in the 70s is the reason young people mix their own shit
Nice! Thank you!
You're welcome! :D
great explanation! in my opinion the extreme use of compresors makse the musik boring to listen to. every part sounds the same and the "special thing" is missing
The textures and subtle differences in timbre within the tracks does indeed become more flat and boring. Also, when listening to a heavily compressed track on loud volume it becomes very tiresome to listen to compared to a track from the 80's for example. Our hearing works by differentiating loud and quiet elements and when everything is essentially the same volume it's like listening to someone who IS NOT TALKING NORMALLY BUT INSTEAD SCREAMING CONSTANTLY!!! :D
Just think about it. When talking, you always put more pressure on certain words right? Some words are more toned down and quiet etc. This is how you express yourself. But if you're yelling out every word from the bottom of your lungs, it's very difficult to interpret your emotions. You just sound mad... It's impossible to know if you deeply care about what you're saying, if you're sad about some parts or whatever. It's just all the same, and indistinguishable.
Unfortunately, it's the same with music.. We have just become so used to it, we don't really think about it any more. Nor does it seem that most people even care.
Well, I agree with most of what you say. I do however think compressing tracks can have advantages. Sure you won't get the best quality this way and of course one shouldn't take it too far. But compressing songs makes them louder without increasing the maximum power output (just the average). If people just wanna hang out, have a small party or whatever and listen to music on a portable Bluetooth speaker or whatever, the quality may not necessarily be so essential. But you wanna be able to hear the music despite background noises etc. And compressed music enables a speaker to play music a lot louder than non compressed music does with the same max power output.
Now, of course if you wanna listen to music on a good sound system with good quality, compressing music isn't a very good idea. But I think the whole loudness war may also be related to the fact that the way people listen to music and what they expect from their music may have been changing. Of course these kinds of trends take some times to settle to a reasonable balance. But all I'm trying to say is that compression isn't necessarily a bad thing that makes music sound bad. You can take everything too far. But imagine you have a really silent track with a few really loud parts. In that case compressing it would probably make it significantly more enjoyable. Since very high dynamic ranges can also be quite annoying. You just need to find the right balance.
Indeed, I'm not by any means against compression. Besides EQ, compression is arguably one of the most important mixing tools available today. You can easily ruin a track if you abuse an EQ too. When used right, it can make a huge difference. The problem is that many people (still) tend to push it further than they should.
Of course... You certainly have to find some kind of balance and not just go on compress songs more and more until you have basically no dynamic range at all. I guess as most things in life, compression has it's advantages and disadvantages and the trick is just to only use it in a way that offers more advantages than disadvantages. Which of course depends a little one what you consider advantageous and what not, but considering they do it so their tracks are perceived as sounding better. It will eventually balance out, since you can only go so far until things are not perceived as sounding better no matter how loud you make 'em.
Exactly. On a second note, I think that some people purposely overdo it a bit because they know the content is going to be played a lot on very poor quality equipment such as cheap Bluetooth speakers, phones, cheap earbuds etc. When played on those devices, compressed music tend to sound better in a sense.
The thing is: On a hifi system the textures would be audible, but not on such small and crappy systems, they will just disappear if the track is too dynamic. So there's that too.. It's a spiraling circle :\
I came over an article a while ago about an experiment being done on some teenagers. They were told to listen to some music that had very low bitrate mp3 (soundcloud quality) and then they played the same music again, but this time lossless and in high quality 24 bit 44100 khz uncompressed wav. They were then asked which version they preferred.
They did this with a variety of music. The conclusion was that most of the teenagers actually preferred the low quality mp3 format.. They thought the wav files sounded "weird"...
What happened here is most likely that they had become so used to listening to poor audio quality, that they had come to expect that this is how music should sound. When introduced to high quality, it therefore sounds strange and out of place compared to what they were used to.
I'm afraid the same thing will be the case with compression and the loudness war. Even if a universal loudness ceiling were to be magically introduced tomorrow, and there is no need for a loudness war any more, I still don't think it would go away. Simply because it's been going on for so long. People have now come to expect music to sound this way now. :(
Yeah... I guess that's mainly it. Which is fair enough, if the majority of the people just care about it sounding reasonably good and them being able to play it as loud as possible on their low end sound system or simply squeezing out the last bit of bass their subwoofer can provide, which I believe many average people mainly care about. Which I can't necessarily exclude myself from in some cases. Like I say it can have advantages.
But it's still a shame that the quality with which we can store and playback sound has increased so much in the last decade and we sort of just waste it.
I guess I can understand if they compress songs on radio and/or spotify etc. But they could at least leave some dynamic range on CDs or if you buy in album in general. They should at least offer a well mixed versions for people who want the full quality. But I guess we'll see what the future brings.
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to explain the topic "correctly". Oddly many people seem to make videos about this topic without fully understanding what they are actually talking about and exactly what compression does or just not explaining it very well and I think this is one of these cases where you kinda need to understand how it works in order to really understand the effect it has on the music.
great and funny vid, Eirik, I liked it and I learned a thing or two, thanks for everything ;-)
Thanks Jan! Glad to hear that you liked it :)
I think compression can be used by artists to experiment. But overall, it has harmed music.
Indeed, compression is just a tool like anything else. Don't blame the tool, blame the guy who's using it :)
A hammer can be built to make houses. But if hammers were mainly used to attack people, then they would soon get a bad rep. That's what has happened to compression thanks to the loudness war. It was originally invented to fix problems, like a vocalist singing unevenly so that some words became too quiet and muffled and so on.
Nice video.
I roughly F*** the loudness war. I do my best to have the most dynamic possible and maintain my track under -16 LUFS integrated. That said when I consider I should put a compressor somewhere I have not much hesitation. Compressors are tools and they are meant to be used. Just nothing should force you to compress like a hog.
Back in the days Jean-Michel Jarre had a ton of dynamic on his album Oxygène and the other two are over compressed.
That said I read that streaming services try to make dynamic track benefit in loudness over compressed tracks. I don't know if it's true or then I think I messed up somewhere because my tracks sound quieter than other people even though I tried to have a lot of dynamic.
People will argue that you have no choice now than cope with loudness war because we're used to it. Then let us transition to a non loudness war music.
Exactly. It's been going on for so long now that this is how people have come to expect music to sound like. :\
It is very sad!