Last month I was landing in Dortmund in totaly clouded sky, WizzAir Airbus A320. I couldn't see ground until almost above the airport, it was very special experience. Clouds of different type were present also at very high altitude during flight and it was icy. Plane was de-iced before taking off.
But the Boeing site displays the JAR's. So those runway lengths should be mandatory. Maybe there are some special regulations, so you can use shorter runways. Plus, on cold winter days the takeoff performance should be better than on hot ones. When we took off at Dortmund (even with brakes set while powering up to takeoff power) we used a lot more than 3/4 of the runway. And that was a really short flight with only few fuel on board.
I know you are right, but what i meant was MTOW. At worst conditions the 737-800 needs a 2.6km runway. I realise that the actually used runway is shorter. But you can still consider 2000m a short runway for the 737, because you have strict regulations for takeoff weight, temperature and so on.
again, i went on the boeing website (they probabably have the right values) and found the J.A.R. runway requirements. B738, with winglets, wet runway, 15°C, sea level height, MTOW, Flaps 25 : runway requirement: about 2.6km. I know that there is a safety factor in it, but you might notice, that a 2000m runway in Dortmund is short, because you can't operate a 737 under all conditions. Even on the dry runway, at MTOW it may need more than 2km.
I Know a B737-800 that flies from a 1600 m runway ALMOST at MTOM in the winters. What i wanted to say with this is that 2600 m is very much runway to play with ;)
You must experience Congonhas in brazil with 1840m distance and Santos Dumont in Rio de Janiero with 1310m. which 737-800SFP land and take-off from there!
well, at mtow the 737-800 needs 2400m of runway. Got the value from the manual. You can also check it at wikipedia. Thats also why there are plans increase the runway length to 2800 meters so the 737 (the biggest operated aircraft at dortmund) can takeoff with no limitations. Thats the ONLY reason...Maybe i also know what i am talking about ;-)
I have flown about 15 times, not too often but enough. But I always find it disconcerting looking at those wings flapping about all over the place. It only takes a few fine fractures to rip it off (actually what I said there was wrong) but thats what it feels like
in belfast we got ryanairs b738 and bmis a320operating on a 1890m runway. its really short for them, and the landing always hard and bumpy to avoid overshoot the runway. but i still cant understand how b737 can operate on 1323m runway (see santos dumont airport in rio de janeiro)
under your described conditions that was what i meant, but if the runway is also wet you will need to add a safety distance (because of the longer break distance at RTO). And then you would need a 2400 or longer RWY, even though you certainly wouldnt use that whole distance, of course. And thats why they want to make the RWY longer in the next years.
For fun i checked FCOM... You can takeoff with MTOM from a 2000 m runway if the temp is under 13 degress celcius... Say 2100-2200 m with 30 degress celcius and MTOM... As you know
The A330 needs 2500m for normal operations...As airasiax said the A330 normal use 2000-2100 m... Normal runway requirements at MTOM: B737-800: 2000 m A320: 1800 m A330-300: 2500 m A332 almost the same but a ittle bit shorter maybe 2470 m...Due to higher nose level during takeoff. Hope this helps!
yes i meant MTOM too. i talked to a pilot that works on Ryanair B737-800 and he flies with MTOM from a 2000 m short runway up to 30 degress. yes there is a little problem,the runway is short for that operation yes. But not impossible. I really trust his FCOM. I t always says on the Boings site that every plane needs so mcuh runway but thats wrong. You can takeoff from mcuh shorter fields.
I don't think you are right: the 737-800 has a 2400m takeoff run at MTOW (Maximum takeoff weight). So Dortmund with 2000m can be considered a short runway for this type of aircraft.
JAR are regulations for 99% of european countries. But I think that we basically mean the same thing. I just wanted to point out the fact that 2000m is a short runway compared to most other airports in Germany. Even in Alaska, where I spend a year,a lot of runways are longer. And those JAR's underline that fact...
There must be another some kind of regulations here than in Germany. Yes in colder temperatures the ''power'' will increase. Im thinking of hot temperatures too like 30 degress celcius. The B737-800 flies from runways like 2000 m here to a destination 6 h away! And thats a lot! It's not always so that planes in the winters rotates earlier. If there is a contaminated runway the winter will kick the summers ass totally...They are always thinking of the worst condition that can happen...
@yepp87 atleast they have the decency to appreiciate what a nice flight it was in bad weather and your comparison with landing a plane in bad weather is very far apart , why dont you go and land a 737-800 in bad weather then
2600m is absolutely enough for an B738 with winglets or not. As i said from the beginnig 2000 m is short i can agree with that but is totally enough for it even at contaminated runways.
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the best video ive ever seen.....by far
my local airport and one i go spotting to is 2,011m or 6,598f only 98ft more then Dortmund
and we have 757 and 767s flying in and out :)
good video
Last month I was landing in Dortmund in totaly clouded sky, WizzAir Airbus A320. I couldn't see ground until almost above the airport, it was very special experience. Clouds of different type were present also at very high altitude during flight and it was icy. Plane was de-iced before taking off.
But the Boeing site displays the JAR's. So those runway lengths should be mandatory. Maybe there are some special regulations, so you can use shorter runways. Plus, on cold winter days the takeoff performance should be better than on hot ones. When we took off at Dortmund (even with brakes set while powering up to takeoff power) we used a lot more than 3/4 of the runway. And that was a really short flight with only few fuel on board.
I know you are right, but what i meant was MTOW. At worst conditions the 737-800 needs a 2.6km runway. I realise that the actually used runway is shorter. But you can still consider 2000m a short runway for the 737, because you have strict regulations for takeoff weight, temperature and so on.
@MicroFK I think only charter flight passengers clap. I just returned from Alicante on a scheduled flight and there was no clapping, thank god!
again, i went on the boeing website (they probabably have the right values) and found the J.A.R. runway requirements. B738, with winglets, wet runway, 15°C, sea level height, MTOW, Flaps 25 : runway requirement: about 2.6km. I know that there is a safety factor in it, but you might notice, that a 2000m runway in Dortmund is short, because you can't operate a 737 under all conditions. Even on the dry runway, at MTOW it may need more than 2km.
I Know a B737-800 that flies from a 1600 m runway ALMOST at MTOM in the winters.
What i wanted to say with this is that 2600 m is very much runway to play with ;)
You must experience Congonhas in brazil with 1840m distance and Santos Dumont in Rio de Janiero with 1310m. which 737-800SFP land and take-off from there!
well, at mtow the 737-800 needs 2400m of runway. Got the value from the manual. You can also check it at wikipedia. Thats also why there are plans increase the runway length to 2800 meters so the 737 (the biggest operated aircraft at dortmund) can takeoff with no limitations. Thats the ONLY reason...Maybe i also know what i am talking about ;-)
I have flown about 15 times, not too often but enough.
But I always find it disconcerting looking at those wings flapping about all over the place. It only takes a few fine fractures to rip it off (actually what I said there was wrong) but thats what it feels like
in belfast we got ryanairs b738 and bmis a320operating on a 1890m runway. its really short for them, and the landing always hard and bumpy to avoid overshoot the runway. but i still cant understand how b737 can operate on 1323m runway (see santos dumont airport in rio de janeiro)
under your described conditions that was what i meant, but if the runway is also wet you will need to add a safety distance (because of the longer break distance at RTO). And then you would need a 2400 or longer RWY, even though you certainly wouldnt use that whole distance, of course. And thats why they want to make the RWY longer in the next years.
For fun i checked FCOM...
You can takeoff with MTOM from a 2000 m runway if the temp is under 13 degress celcius...
Say 2100-2200 m with 30 degress celcius and MTOM...
As you know
The A330 needs 2500m for normal operations...As airasiax said the A330 normal use 2000-2100 m...
Normal runway requirements at MTOM:
B737-800: 2000 m
A320: 1800 m
A330-300: 2500 m
A332 almost the same but a ittle bit shorter maybe 2470 m...Due to higher nose level during takeoff.
Hope this helps!
yes i meant MTOM too.
i talked to a pilot that works on Ryanair B737-800 and he flies with MTOM from a 2000 m short runway up to 30 degress. yes there is a little problem,the runway is short for that operation yes. But not impossible.
I really trust his FCOM.
I t always says on the Boings site that every plane needs so mcuh runway but thats wrong. You can takeoff from mcuh shorter fields.
I don't think you are right: the 737-800 has a 2400m takeoff run at MTOW (Maximum takeoff weight). So Dortmund with 2000m can be considered a short runway for this type of aircraft.
Wow that was fast, i just saw roads and house shoot past, i wud of shat myself
2000 m is short for an B738 but it dtill works to takeoff from thereP:
BTW nice vid! ;)
JAR are regulations for 99% of european countries. But I think that we basically mean the same thing. I just wanted to point out the fact that 2000m is a short runway compared to most other airports in Germany. Even in Alaska, where I spend a year,a lot of runways are longer. And those JAR's underline that fact...
There must be another some kind of regulations here than in Germany.
Yes in colder temperatures the ''power'' will increase.
Im thinking of hot temperatures too like 30 degress celcius.
The B737-800 flies from runways like 2000 m here to a destination 6 h away! And thats a lot!
It's not always so that planes in the winters rotates earlier. If there is a contaminated runway the winter will kick the summers ass totally...They are always thinking of the worst condition that can happen...
@yepp87 atleast they have the decency to appreiciate what a nice flight it was in bad weather and your comparison with landing a plane in bad weather is very far apart , why dont you go and land a 737-800 in bad weather then
it usually shpuldn't be dramatic, but we were coming in sort of too high or too fast, so the touchdown was harder than usually...
Came in a little bit too fast it seems to me..
2600m is absolutely enough for an B738 with winglets or not. As i said from the beginnig 2000 m is short i can agree with that but is totally enough for it even at contaminated runways.
can you explain that?!
and he really hit the brakes hard after touching down
yes. so it is a short runway
Until you can land an aircraft yourself, don't underestimate the skill it takes, ESPECIALLY in turbulent weather.
@wizzair1313 short is for example santos dumont, rio:) check it out:)
besides...this airport has 6500ft as well ;-)
today an airbus 321 overshot the runway after landing. it was clear visibility and no wind
@fgiorgio rather short than long
Also so schlimm war die Landung ja nun wirklich nicht. Da habe ich in DTM aber schon weit aus schlimmere Landungen miterlebt.
thank you, unfortunately the touchdown doesnt seem as hard as is really was, and the guy behind me talks crap all the time ;-)
Wow... my German friends were right: Germans don't clap upon landing, unless it's a charter/low-fare flight from Majorca LOL
it is not short
Take a look at my channel to see some more plane videos...
no you didn't ;)
You said many times that i need moore than 2400 m...Anyway i just gave you the answer. :P
i hate the applause after landings-.-
thats what i meant :-)
That's a pretty hard landing indeed.XD
I had a bumpy landing too when we arrived on Samos, check my vid.
crap landing... done by an air berlin pilot, and this will be the airline i'm flying for in a few years if i'm lucky oO
its a german habit and i hate it. they clap after every landing... like "THANK GOD, WE'RE ALIVE!".. the pilots do nothing but their jobs..
LOL!!!