Thanks Jim, I had been reading a number of HB forum posts after getting my Silvia PID and this video and accompanying post really helped to clarify what it should look like coming out.
@HBsJim nice video! I did built a preinfusion bypass for my HX Rancilio S26 but I have the problem that it's coming a lot of steam out of the brew head when I reduce the flow to about 30ml/30s. Looks even more steamy like yours. Is my HX temperature set to high? 😁
I don't get it. Was this the calibration or the method to see if a calibration is needed? What are "we" doing exactly? Are there some more background information? Highly interested thanks
The video was made to accompany this post on on home-barista: www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html It may make more sense in context.
Per Jim, as he explained on home-barista.com: "This is a video of a properly calibrated machine showing the flow at 98, 99, 100, and 101 centigrade. There is weak boiling at 99C that takes time to develop; to me this indicates I'm not quite there yet. But if you pick this point for your offset, your calibration is still going to be pretty good. The 98C is clearly to low; and the 101C flow is boiling no harder than the 100C. The idea is to find the **lowest** temperature at which you see flash boiling, the LFBT (lowest flash boiling temperature). If it is at the local boiling point in your preferred temperature unit, you are set. If the LFBT is X degrees higher than you local boiling point, your offset is X degrees too low and needs to raised by X degrees. If the LFBT is X degrees lower than the local boiling point, your offset is too high, and needs to be lowered by X degrees. (There is a gotcha for Fahrenheit users, the offset is usually in Centigrade even if the panel reading is in Fahrenheit -- check your manual, or always do this calibration in Centigrade)."
so when I know flash boiling temp, It should be the 100C and the PID temperature will explain to me how much offset I have? For example, Flash boil at 102 so I have two degrees offset, did I get it right?
Yep. The video is in support of an instructional post on www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html
@@HBsJim I read the post but I wasn't sure about how to determine the offset temperature,Could you explain it to me here in simple way please? and also do you have to let the machine rest between shot test?
@@man9tube I'm not sure what to say. If your display reads 102 when you first get a flash boil, your offset is 2 degrees less than it should be (the offset is subtracted from the boiler temp). Let the machine rest about 1o minutes between trials.
Not really sure if I see the difference between 98 and 100 C for example. Mine doesn‘t even look close to your video. Bubbles way smaller and less waterflow. So not really sure if mine is boiling at 102 or higher (e.g., 106). Any more tips how I can spot the boiling temp exactly and if waterflow differentiate (maybe due to IMS shower vs Lelit standard)? From taste I feel my machine maybe has an offset of 2 C.
It's mostly that there's hissing and sputtering. So the difference is more in the sound than the look. Probably the video's sound recording is not good enough to convey that.
Thanks for the reply! I notice the change in sound at 97 degrees first, but can actually barely hear it and takes quite a lot of time. At 99 it takes a bit of time and then you can hear the sizzling sound pretty well. At 100 it starts immediately when pulling the lever. Is that perfectly calibrated?
@@tobiaspetros3231 It's how I did it. But since you can set the shot temp, it is more about it being comparable to other people's. With this calibration, when I use Scace to measure shot temperatures, it's about right. (If you want to be really persniketty -- I have my temp set at 92C and the Scace reads from 92 to 93, so using the 99 setting as the calibration would be just as accruate, and you'll have the shot a half degree lower than your setting)
It's in support of a how to post: www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html
It seems that in the V3 this has changed a bit. The offset is now added while brewing to temporarily lower or higher the setpoint instead of all the time it seems. Setting my temperature to 98 and offset to 5 behaves different than 103 degrees Celsius and 0 offset. After switching the lelit is heating up and shows 98 as a process value. But when 103 is reached and stable, starting to brew doesn't immediately start heating the boiler. This happens only with a positive offset. The machine now seems to compensate the cool water flowing into the boiler when brewing when this value is used
Thanks for the clarification. Does it make a difference when trying to find the temperature drop between the boiler and group, so that the panel reading is identical to the shot temperature?
@@HBsJim i did bot bother any further with it so far. I will check my temperature drop throughout a shot and adjust for that. I will try to set the offset in my head when adjusting the setpoint.
Like setting 95 when i want 92 and the offset is 3, I should be good. But maybe the actual offset is now a fixed value in the background? Biancas shouldnt be too Different...
@@pastagandalf Ah. If you can measure the shot temperature in real time; this video is of no use to you. It is a way of determining the offset without using a thermometer for any DB, not just the Bianca.
@@HBsJim I can't. But to my understanding, this value is now a temporary offset to make boiler water temperature more consistent throughout the brew. So I guess if the displayed process value in the PID drops 5 degrees over a typical brew, you set it to 5 and it will be at the starting temperature if the brew is complete. In the past this was the offset between actual water temp in the basket and boiler temperature.
Thanks Jim, I had been reading a number of HB forum posts after getting my Silvia PID and this video and accompanying post really helped to clarify what it should look like coming out.
@HBsJim nice video! I did built a preinfusion bypass for my HX Rancilio S26 but I have the problem that it's coming a lot of steam out of the brew head when I reduce the flow to about 30ml/30s.
Looks even more steamy like yours.
Is my HX temperature set to high? 😁
I don't get it. Was this the calibration or the method to see if a calibration is needed? What are "we" doing exactly? Are there some more background information? Highly interested thanks
The video was made to accompany this post on on home-barista:
www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html
It may make more sense in context.
Per Jim, as he explained on home-barista.com:
"This is a video of a properly calibrated machine showing the flow at 98, 99, 100, and 101 centigrade. There is weak boiling at 99C that takes time to develop; to me this indicates I'm not quite there yet. But if you pick this point for your offset, your calibration is still going to be pretty good. The 98C is clearly to low; and the 101C flow is boiling no harder than the 100C.
The idea is to find the **lowest** temperature at which you see flash boiling, the LFBT (lowest flash boiling temperature). If it is at the local boiling point in your preferred temperature unit, you are set. If the LFBT is X degrees higher than you local boiling point, your offset is X degrees too low and needs to raised by X degrees. If the LFBT is X degrees lower than the local boiling point, your offset is too high, and needs to be lowered by X degrees. (There is a gotcha for Fahrenheit users, the offset is usually in Centigrade even if the panel reading is in Fahrenheit -- check your manual, or always do this calibration in Centigrade)."
so when I know flash boiling temp, It should be the 100C and the PID temperature will explain to me how much offset I have? For example, Flash boil at 102 so I have two degrees offset, did I get it right?
Yep. The video is in support of an instructional post on www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html
@@HBsJim I read the post but I wasn't sure about how to determine the offset temperature,Could you explain it to me here in simple way please? and also do you have to let the machine rest between shot test?
@@man9tube I'm not sure what to say. If your display reads 102 when you first get a flash boil, your offset is 2 degrees less than it should be (the offset is subtracted from the boiler temp). Let the machine rest about 1o minutes between trials.
@@HBsJim thank you so much, I will try it today
Not really sure if I see the difference between 98 and 100 C for example. Mine doesn‘t even look close to your video. Bubbles way smaller and less waterflow. So not really sure if mine is boiling at 102 or higher (e.g., 106). Any more tips how I can spot the boiling temp exactly and if waterflow differentiate (maybe due to IMS shower vs Lelit standard)? From taste I feel my machine maybe has an offset of 2 C.
But what I do notice is a change in sound. Is that change when it hits the flash boiling temp?
It's mostly that there's hissing and sputtering. So the difference is more in the sound than the look. Probably the video's sound recording is not good enough to convey that.
Thanks for the reply! I notice the change in sound at 97 degrees first, but can actually barely hear it and takes quite a lot of time. At 99 it takes a bit of time and then you can hear the sizzling sound pretty well. At 100 it starts immediately when pulling the lever. Is that perfectly calibrated?
@@tobiaspetros3231 It's how I did it. But since you can set the shot temp, it is more about it being comparable to other people's. With this calibration, when I use Scace to measure shot temperatures, it's about right. (If you want to be really persniketty -- I have my temp set at 92C and the Scace reads from 92 to 93, so using the 99 setting as the calibration would be just as accruate, and you'll have the shot a half degree lower than your setting)
@@HBsJim That‘s great. Thanks a lot!
So, I presume this is with reference to some commentary elsewhere? What's actually going on here - you don't explain.
It's in support of a how to post: www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html
What is the local boiling point?
Chicago is close enough to sea level that it isn't an issue; if you are at altitude, you need to compensate.
It seems that in the V3 this has changed a bit.
The offset is now added while brewing to temporarily lower or higher the setpoint instead of all the time it seems.
Setting my temperature to 98 and offset to 5 behaves different than 103 degrees Celsius and 0 offset. After switching the lelit is heating up and shows 98 as a process value.
But when 103 is reached and stable, starting to brew doesn't immediately start heating the boiler. This happens only with a positive offset. The machine now seems to compensate the cool water flowing into the boiler when brewing when this value is used
Thanks for the clarification. Does it make a difference when trying to find the temperature drop between the boiler and group, so that the panel reading is identical to the shot temperature?
@@HBsJim i did bot bother any further with it so far. I will check my temperature drop throughout a shot and adjust for that. I will try to set the offset in my head when adjusting the setpoint.
Like setting 95 when i want 92 and the offset is 3, I should be good. But maybe the actual offset is now a fixed value in the background? Biancas shouldnt be too Different...
@@pastagandalf Ah. If you can measure the shot temperature in real time; this video is of no use to you. It is a way of determining the offset without using a thermometer for any DB, not just the Bianca.
@@HBsJim I can't. But to my understanding, this value is now a temporary offset to make boiler water temperature more consistent throughout the brew. So I guess if the displayed process value in the PID drops 5 degrees over a typical brew, you set it to 5 and it will be at the starting temperature if the brew is complete. In the past this was the offset between actual water temp in the basket and boiler temperature.