Was Rose Quartz a Bad Person?
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2018
- After "A Single Pale Rose" aired, a lot of people were quick to jump on Rose, saying that she is the true villain of the show (and that she's this despicable person). Given what we know about her currently, is she good or bad?
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Is rose a good or a bad person?
Rose: *"I'm not a person..*
Movie spoiler
Yeah she’s pretty bad there is no redeeming what she did to spinel. Heck even Steven says he isn’t surprised she did that to her
@@meatvortexgaming7134 true, what she did to Spinel was super fucked up but, I do think she has improved as a person from her experience on Earth. At least better than who she was as Pink Diamond
@@meatvortexgaming7134 ikr
Not a person, but she really feels human in her choices sometimes
@@meatvortexgaming7134 To be fair, she abandoned Spinel before she had the epiphany that gems as individuals are worth fighting for. It's still super fucked up, but that doesn't really make her totally a bad person, she just lacked insight over the situation of other gems. Insight that she gained on Earth, long after that interaction in the garden. Not to mention it's implied that she was abused by the other diamonds (Locking her up in a dark room as punishment, Blue making her cry until she apologizes or just to punish her further, how is that not abuse??), not that it excuses her actions, but it does influence them nonetheless.
Besides, it's not like the other diamonds didn't do something horrible either. I mean, that does happen when your people are in a dictatorship and the only way to get more of your people is to literally suck the life out of a planet.
"But you will lose your TV privliges.
For one thousand years."
*_hiatus intensifies_*
Fleece Manjenkins I’M DYING
*_YEET_*
But Steven is half human so he cant-
@bryan diaz varela MORDERRRRRRR IN POOOOORKYYYY PIIIIIG'S VOIIIIIIICE
If anything, her decisions paint her as impulsive, selfish and without any forethought. I don't think she was malicious, just horribly flawed.
Agreed. That's why all the "she's the true villain" hot takes bother me.
Jasper's "I admired your tactics" line is pretty funny in hindsight. Especially since Jasper's not exactly that good at tactics either.
Yeah; I do think she has a empathy problem.
So she’s not really a “villain” just a brash and impulsive person...much like Pink Diamond herself.
Another part of SU that I like is that all the characters are flawed.
Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem I know I had a hard time excepting the truth
The Best Answer is probably Chaotic Neutral
Yeah that's pretty much it she's just Chaotic Neutral.
Lawful neutral
Kasai wizard and e dron your both wrong
TRUE NEUTRAL
She's a noble gem, fighter, sorcerer that's chaotic neutral
I see her as a true neutral
"Rose Quartz lacked empathy"
Steven: *literally has empathy powers*
Bruh
I'm late but here's my opinion:
With a lack of empathy, it can happen through genetics or a lack of empathy given to you as a child, so you don't understand it yourself.
This is literally Something that happens to people in real life, and also, AI that learn and remember, are likely to learn like whatever is in charge of them.
So, the diamonds who locked her up, didn't really attempt to talk to her or take care of her like how we see, ect. Did not allow her develop empathy, Steven and rose both have empathy powers, just that rose is unable to FEEL that empathy very well at all, while Steven could. Also this could cause Steven's powers to be more useful to him as his empathy and genuine care for others would let him do certain things, like when Lars died and basically any other time where he used his powers for something like that, where he got upset.
Along with this his family were pretty caring towards him while pink had kind of the opposite, she was practically abused. Now, Gregg was likely pretty empathetic and the same with the gems, they all raised Steven with a lot of love and care from what we can see. Maybe pink knew that if one is raised with empathy and such, they will develop that trait, or maybe because Gregg is Steven's dad, it is just a part of Gregg being passed onto Steven through their genetic code that makes up their personality traits that are set in stone.
I hope I explained this well because I'm kind of, not a native English speaker, please tell me if I can explain more,,
Empathy is something she had to a small degree. If she didn't earth wouldn't have stood a chance. The problem was gems aren't supposed to do feelings. Gem society has everyone in their place and nobody is supposed step out of line much less complain about it.
@@theresahall8206 that's along the lines of what I said I think I might have just missed that information
Wyatt Vogel she has the powers of empathy, but she lacked the feeling of it.
The exact line Blue says to Pink in the flashback in can't go back, I think is Pink's primary motivation to fake her own shattering.
"Just smile and wave, show everyone you're unfazed by this little uprising. Your gems will fall into line, and the crystal gems will be no more As long as you are there to rule, this colony will be completed"
Pink took that last line to heart, and turned her thinking around. "If I'm NOT there to rule, this colony will never be completed," so she decided to erase herself. It was the worst decision possible because she assumed her sisters didn't care about her, despite the contrary, and she didn't think there would be any retaliation because of that assumption. She was wrong.
She's not a bad person, she's reckless and impulsive. Pink is season 1 Steven.
"Season 1 Steven" Very good comparison honestly.
Just because the Diamonds are the same gem type doesn't make them related. Ruby and Sapphire are the same gem type and the ship is canon. If we go by your logic then Garnet is incest
yes
@@fggyleafexist1753 The Diamonds aren't LITERALLY sisters (as you said, that would make Garnet incestuous), but a common comparison between Blue and Yellow's dynamic with Pink is that of parents or older sisters.
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem you're disgusting...
She’s an impulsive child raised by dictators who were seen as all powerful gods.
She was basically a child god and didn’t understand how anyone else felt because why would a diamond care?
But she grew. We see it in reverse, her becoming a more mature person but still reckless and flawed.
I guess. She was still reckless with baby Sour Cream, but she was ofc not aware of babies. But even then a gem who has some form of empathy would be cautious about doing insane things to others, seemingly heights and etc are something gems can be afraid or cautious of
MegaSocky Then again Peridot survived nearly being crushed a few times, and diamonds are more resilient than even that, so I’m willing to bet her perception of ‘fatal injury’ is probably a lot higher than most.
I’m imagining she just assumed that Sour Cream knew what he was doing. Like “well surely human babies must be as smart as the adults, just smaller. So this is probably fine?”
@@megasocky Greg told her to watch Baby Sour Cream. And that's what she did. She watched him.
Child god? Like a demi god but not a moral? idk
@@aliciab.b.1837 What it sounds like. A god who is the age of a child. With all the impulsiveness, immaturity and lack of consideration it entails. She doesn’t consider that anyone would miss her because the other Diamonds abuse her. She doesn’t think about consequences because she was punished for ANYthing and just got better at hiding things.
I think Rose wanted to have Steven because she knew that she was apathetic and couldn't understand love the way others around her did. So, in becoming Steven she could finally...
Learn how to how love like others could.
I know Love Like You can refer to any character's thoughts on the show, but I think it most aptly belongs to Rose/Pink.
Grey Jedi *LOVE LIKE YOU*
thanks i’m crying now
*_IIIIF I COUUUULD, BEGIIIIIN TO BEEEEEEEEEE-_*
I think that mabey she thought that all her good intension lead to big mistakes so she wanted to stop herself from making anymore. Like she wanted to save everyone from herself.
One recurring thing I keep hearing in "the Pink Diamond reveal sucked" arguments is how Rose concealing this is supposedly uncharacteristic and contrasts with how we've been told for seasons how amazing and perfect Rose was. And like... That's the point, right? Not even the charismatic leader of the Crystal Gems is flawless, in spite of what everyone thinks - and that's totally okay. People being flawed leads us to new experiences. If every porkchop were perfect, we wouldn't have hot dogs.
Besides, keeping secrets is kind of what the CGems are about.
Garnet and Pearl keep secrets from Amethyst and Steven.
Amethyst didn't even know she was defective until Jasper came along.
Steven knew nothing about Pink Diamond until Eyeball gave him the information.
"She lied to us" is never something Amethyst has had any right to complain about, so it's kind of unfair for Garnet to treat this as such a huge deal.
She'd do it, too, and she has.
you say that but spinel lol
But everything we knew about her character in early seasons was from people who idolized her and too biased to see her flaws.
I just watched Historical Friction last night and that says no one is flawless, and you just made me realize what "If every porkchop were perfect, we wouldn't have hot dogs" means. It makes me realize everything about no one being flawless in Steven Universe is foreshadowing and leading up to White Diamond realizing this causing her redemption.
Damm it why'd you have to use that one 😂 lol
5 things:
1) The zoo was built because Pink wanted to spare Earth. The diamonds interpreted that as preserving life by building the zoo.
2) We have her development in reverse.
3) She was raised by diamonds. So she was only following the only examples of
she had been raised with.
4) The diamonds most likely wouldn’t listen, so they most likely would have colonized anyway if she said she didn’t want.
5) She wanted to help everyone, but she didn’t know how. She didn’t know what to do.
She is flawed but definitely not a bad person.
i don't think rose quartz was really "good" or "bad". she had a lot of good intentions that ended up hurting people badly. that's called a "gray area". so this argument is pointless.
also, i don't think rose was ever in an official "relationship" with pearl? we don't see ANY evidence of pearl's feelings not being mostly one sided except when steven sings "and i love both of you" and you can hear her voice.
THIRDLY: pearl said she didn't really mind those other human men because she knew they weren't actually important to rose until greg came along and was.
She left spinel behind T-T
I think the "I love both of you" was just Zach Callison slipping into his usual singing voice.
What about the dialog between Rose and Pearl that happened after Pearl tried to form Rainbow Quartz with Rose? Pearl told Rose to stop her, but Rose ended up saying:"Don't ever stop!".
Василий Драгунов pretty sure that was in response to Pearl starting to think for herself.
I never really thought of Rose loving Pink in a romantic way maybe in any other way but never going romantic, but I could be wrong
If she told them she was a diamond, they might have killed Steven. They almost did anyways just thinking it would bring her back. Also, they literally had a whole episode from which the conclusion was "Rose had Steven because she loved him, not because she wanted to escape her problems," Storm in the Room. Also, if she told the Diamonds directly that she wanted earth to be free, not only would they probably have said no, it would probably have blown her cover as the secret leader of the rebellion and it would have been doomed without her.
Also Lion 4.
nessesaryschoolthing but the episode storm in the room, Steven was basically talking to him self to rise because everything in the room is just what Steven wants. So Rose telling Steven” You know that’s not true” after him claiming that she was a bad person, was just Steven talking to himself
Rose in “storm in the room” wasn’t actually what Rose would have said (Although it might have been we just don’t know) it was what Steven wanted to hear because the room makes what Steven wants
Tara MacLean Exactly!
@@JayJayNoelastnam
No what Steven knew wasn't true was that Rose had left Steven to deal with her problems it's also pointed out in Lion 4 that Rose had no real plan for Steven other than to enjoy being human
the Road to hell is paved with good intentions
MultiDiceman what do that mean
@Lisa Star It's a saying that pretty much means "Doing bad things, even if you do them with good intentions, is still bad".
As an example: The Dragonborn in the Skyrim game. Overall by the end of the game you can save the entire world. But throughout the course of the game you are able to hurt a lot of the NPCs...
Or, I need to buy a super awesome bow that allows me to kill the evil force that will destroy the world. But I have no money. If I get a job and all of that jazz it'll take me xxx amount of time to afford the the awesome evil killing bow. The super evil force will arrive in xx amount of time. If I steal money I buy the evil killing bow in x amount of time and still have extra time to prepare.
But while stealing the money, I put xx amount of families or people into debt, steal and sell precious family items, and destroy several livelihoods and businesses. In the end I saved the world, but xx amount of people had their 'worlds' destroyed.
That's still not a very good example but It's the best I could do at the moment while tired after work.
Its road, actually.
@Kira Suzuki You've pretty much described the inverse of the meaning. Both of the obviously evil dudes you just mentioned did bad things and pretended that they were for good intentions.
While my comment was for the purpose of showing that an overall heroic person/cause can still do bad things in the name of good. And that that could potentially negate the good that they've done.
To be frank: using two people known for torture, horrific experimentation on unwilling subjects, and other horrendous acts of murder and overall evil is not the point of the the phrase.
Another example:
Hundreds of people have been killed during "Witch Hunts"(not just Salem). They were accused, tortured and killed in such a manner that if they die, they kinda proved they were innocent, during an often cruel and unusual death causing test. Take Dunking for an example-Witches don't sink. So if the person floated they prove that they are a witch. But if they drown they were innocent of witchcraft. It was unwinnable
The people did utterly horrific things to people and still expected to/believed that they would got the Heaven. Regardless of torturing and murdering primairly women, children, and elders. Because they believed that accidentally torturing and murdering a "few" people could be forgiven because their "Cause was Just".
"Good people" can/have/will at times do "bad things" for the sake of good. That doesn't change the fact that they have done bad. Even if you have the "Best Intentions" doing bad things is still doing bad things.
I respect your point of view, but I have to disagree. Pink couldn’t really come forward and do anything as herself because none of the other diamonds cared enough to listen. Pink was abused by all of the other diamonds, being made to cry by Blue, verbally abused by Yellow or getting locked in her tower at the order of White. Like the episode said, her status as a Diamond meant nothing to them. It’s not that she didn’t trust them to tell them she wanted to save the planet, it’s that they wouldn’t have listened or would’ve punished her, took Earth and finished the colony themselves (thus destroying the planet). As someone who has suffered a similar kind of “upbringing” as Pink did, I can’t see her as a bad person. Being abused and pushed into a corner isn’t being a bad person, it’s taking the only option to freedom you have and not looking back
That's what I thought and usually there's only so much diplomatic solutions you can try before you have you have to be violent which is what it came to for her.
I 100% agree
Her leaving the diamonds isn’t really why the bad person is being made
She was dishonest reckless and immature with literally everyone else never addressing any issue she’s caused and instead leaving the messes to be cleaned by someone else
She was dishonest with garnet and amethyst about her identity and she ignored the suffering of pearl who was already bearing the knowledge that she was a diamond
And she left everyone to figure everything out especially Steven while she became unable to face any consequences
She left no explanation to Steven about his powers and he had to force the pink diamond knowledge out of pearl’s mind
None of that was malicious I agree and her upbringing definitely had an impact
But she was beyond reckless and selfish she hurt so many people and unlike everyone else in the show
She never addressed it
Rose very much did straight up tell the other diamonds that she herself wanted to stop the colony to preserve life on Earth. "When she told the other diamonds she wanted to preserve life on Earth, they created the zoo and threw a handful of humans in". She took a stand as Rose Quartz after having her pleas ignored, then faked her shattering after Blue literally told her the colony *would* be completed as long as she was there to rule- when it seemed like the only option left. She didn't skip straight to drastic measures.
Susan Egan, Rose's voice actress, has come to her defense when people has questioned her morality, her intentions, and her love for both Steven and the earth, and while yes she may not be a writer for the show, she certainly has some inside info we don't.
Susan Egan may have a different insight on her character, though. It's also interesting when talking about this subject, because Rebecca said she was an awful person in the official podcast. And she's the writer of the show. So I think it's all up to one's personal perception.
www.reddit.com/r/stevenuniverse/comments/82vojz/official_podcast_earth_gems_rebecca_sugar_ian/
@@ToonRuinsOfficial I mean the problem with that is in the show she basically shows the opposite. Nothing really shows RQ as an awful person.
The other diamonds are worse than rose, she tried to chance, and she prayed the diamonds to left free the earth but they don't listen her, and she become Rosequartz
Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.
I would go so far as to say, that humans always work with the "best intentions" in mind.
We just can't really agree what those intentions should go towards, or what we define as best.
You could hold the" best intentions" of wanting to create an make a better and happier world, and the next ting you know everyone is hating on you for killing of thousands of people in concentration camps.
but you had the best intentions, all your friends agreed and so did you own logic.
And that's why the winners make the history, because they win the prize of defining what is best.
And why there is no such thing as good and evil, just hole lot of stupid.
sometimes what seems to humans a good idea, is in general a bad idea, kinda like stealing when you're poor, to the person it may seem like the only way out of they're troubles especially if that's all you know, but its bad and the person may have never known, so are pink diamond's actions bad? as more of the shows go it seems as pink diamond was taught to be a diamond by the other diamonds yellow blue and white, thus leading her to be a diamond but was spoiled and generally wanted to have fun, till she got her colony that from there she kinda learned more and more slowly about being mature and doing good
Hitler...
look no further than WWII
Pink's dilemma reminds me a lot of an analogy I heard a while back. It goes something like this;
If a child is raised from birth to believe that stealing is the morally right thing to do, that taking from other people is correct and that that child deserves it and is entitled to it up until adulthood whilst being raised in confinement with no outside opinions, and that child is released into the world and starts committing mass robberies, is that child a bad person? Are they to blame?
The answer is pretty clearly no. However despite Pink basically BEING that child, most people still blame her for the brainwashing that she went through during a large portion of her life, essentially blaming the victim despite the fact that in the end she realized she was in the wrong all along and tried to change.
The most frustrating thing about this series to me is that ALL the characters are flawed, but Rose is the only one who doesn't get to remedy that because she's not around to :(
EXACTLY. Everyone gets to tell their story and get their arc, but not Pink/Rose (she technically got an arc but it was in reverse :/ ). She became a scapegoat and it just felt like the show was spitting on her corpse every chance it got.
@@QueenHolly832 plus all we see of pink/rose are from other's biased perspectives, of course, the fandom going to hate her when all they saw was from the pov the one that got hurt and how they interpreted it, like with spinel, she thought that they're actual friends whereas in pink's pov spinel was a distraction that the diamonds used to shut a whining child (herself)
@@QueenHolly832 funny, I never felt like the show itself spat on her corpse but the fans sure do. I always thought the show did a pretty good job of depicting her as complex and multi-faceted while giving the viewers space to form their own opinions about her.
@@kelleh711 in future and the movie atleast Pink is potrayed as the scum of the earth.
Is it possible that the human zoo was made by White, Blue, or Yellow for Pink as a gift when she said she liked humans? It also seems like it’s possible that her “excuses” weren’t so much “excuses” as actual protestations that were brushed off because of her childishness.
Katie and that’s another thing, diamonds are supposed to be fully formed and already knowledgeable about their role! So Pink was an off color of her own.
that is actually what happened
@@ShyyGaladriel I guess that's why Blue thought she was a failure.
@@ShyyGaladriel Exactly good point
Pearl confirmed that the Zoo was made by Yellow, Blue, and White
In my opinion, Pink Diamond didnt tell them the truth because she was afraid of her sister Diamonds.
Its obvious that Pink was... Different than the other Diamonds.
Much smaller. Overcooked. Like Amethyst. If we can take Jasper's attitude towards "defective" gems as any inkling of the Diamond Authorities stance on the matter, she felt inferior to the other diamonds and afraid of them as well. She came out wrong and they came out perfect in her eyes. If she couldn't prove herself as a Diamond, and play the role exactly how they thought she should have, then what place does she have in the Diamond Authority at all? If she can't look or behave like a Diamond, can she be considered one? If not, then she would be labeled "defective" and shattered, like all the other off colored gems that don't fit into the Diamond Authorities mold.
20Tyreke Williams Doesn't mean she didn't feel that way. Why else would she *fake her own death and start anew* ? She clearly had a complex with herself and her authority being undermined because of her stature.
"I'm just as important as you!"
You are a bit wrong there. Only clear/white diamonds are flawless and any colored diamonds have impurity or defect. Infact one the factors believed to cause red/pink diamond is combination of heat and pressure, so intense it makes the lattice of the diamond to be distorted.
So red/pink actually can be called over-cooked diamonds irl.
and they also dont contain the intelligence of alien lifeforms
Pink Diamond is meant to be that small because of her place in the authority-the bottom. That's why white is colossal.
In "your mother and mine", we see the three diamonds extend their hands together to produce the corruption effect over earth (how come the gems on the far side of the earth also got corrupted? Whatever...). They appear similar in size.
Her first exposure to 'love' was from the diamonds who treated her as a joke and a child. This left her with a messed up idea of how to love someone.I think she was still learning the proper way to love. nobody is 100% good or evil
So... Rose took impulsive & often self-sacrificing actions to try to do what she thought was right, without stopping to think about the consequences to those close to her. What was Steven's last character arc about, again? : ^ )
Exactly.
That Rose's development kind of mirrors Steven's
@John Smith
kind of Pearl and his dad with just the shit he would get into and technically him releasing Lapis did cause the oceans to go away
John Smith Bismuth, Jasper, Ruby Squad, Sadie, Connie
"Earth wasn't even saved" Sounds like Peridot's reasoning in It Could've Been Great. Which is unfair because it A) dismisses the life that got to exist in the meantime because of Pink and B) blames Pink for a malicious thing the other Diamonds did. Even if Pink had sat down and thought about the consequences of her faking her shattering, would she have been able to predict the cluster or the corruption? Was she even aware those things were possible?
I agree with you!
Also when she said that her lack of empathy is shown by the zoo. That bothered me because pink didn't create the zoo, the other diamonds did. Pink said she just wanted to preserve the life on earth and the other diamonds misunderstood her request
Bonjour
@@thegrumple5862 Yeah. She was even horrified at the colony sucking life out of the planet.
Was she bad? Yes!
Was she a person? No!
I mean, she said it herself.
Kinda Weeaboo, But not really She wasn't bad
Thats just what Pink Diamond would say...
*Wait!*
Maybe she said that since Rose was not her real identity, so she wasn't a "real person".
I feel like....i want to say she is a bad person but....i also don't want to chose sides so yeah.... *._.*
i meant she's not a bad person but for some reason i said she is a bad person ._.
Honestly... I don't think Rose was as incapable of empathy as a lot of people are interpreting it. Sure, a lot of human concepts were alien to her. But, just looking at the way she talk to others and her decisions during the war...
For example - How she talked with William Buddy in "Buddy's Book" or with Pearl in "Rose's Scabbard". Heck... Even her decision to make a Rose Quartz persona, show the thoughtfulness to lead the Crystal Gems without forcing anyone to her will. If she just showed up as Pink Diamond, the gems would be forced to obey her.
The entire decision of starting the rebellion has nothing for Pink in the first place.
She wasn't even trying to stay on Earth (she was trying to leave).
The line she said to Greg "funny"... Brutal as it sounds, it was funny. Adorable, even. A meaningless human, wanting to have a serious relationship with a DIAMOND. It's almost inconceivable. It's also likely that no human had ever tried to have a serious relationship with Pink, and nothing would ever work out because of a gem's immortal nature... Greg, most likely, already knew that, but there he was... Actually trying... And Pink understood him. They understood each other. If that's not empathy, I don't know what it is.
I thought they were funny, too, and I can see why she was confused.
His feelings were unfamiliar to her, but she learned, and she tried to understand him, and she loved him, and she's gone.
It's over, isn't it? Why can't we move on?
Also,even though some people don't think about this deeply,in my opinion,it was amazing that she sacrificed herself to give birth to Steven.It sounds cool on theory,but imagine if someone tells you today"if you wanna make a kid,you gotta die for him".Not so easy,right?And other people say"she did that to escape her responsabilties"but let's not forget that Rose loved Greg and Earth,so it wasn't like she was forced to have Steven,it was a conscious decision.
I said this too. I'm on the autism spectrum and I kind of relate with Pink, odd as that may sound.
Pink/Rose doesn't LACK empathy, she just experiences and expresses it differently, much like an autistic person.
There are two types of empathy:
Cognitive empathy (being aware of WHY a person feels the way they do) and...
Emotional empathy (feeling the emotions alongside the person, and caring that the person feels the way they do).
Autistic people tend to struggle with cognitive empathy, but have strong emotional empathy.
Rose/Pink is very EMOTIONALLY empathetic, when she's aware of someone's hurt or sadness, it matters to her that someone she cares about feels the way they do, and she shares that hurt/sadness, even though she doesn't really understand WHY they feel that way. (I mean, Garnet said that whenever her fellow rebels were injured, Rose felt genuine sorrow for them, which stimulated her healing abilities).
For example, after Greg attempted to do a fusion dance with Rose, when he said that talking to her was torture, she immediately got concerned about his well-being. She cares that he's hurting, and no doubt the fact that he's hurting, especially that he's hurting because of her, causes Rose to hurt as well. Even though she doesn't understand WHY her amusement towards humans would be upsetting, or that her behavior could be hurtful. And Greg explains it to her and, over however long their courtship actually was, he helped her learn and understand him and humans better.
Rose didn't lack empathy, she just had a DIFFERENT empathy.
@@Lillyluvsanime i love this comment♥
@@Lillyluvsanime Seems about right.
Essentially those flashback scenes looking back actually contain a character Arc for Rose as she learned to understand others feelings during the relationship with Greg? Wow
10:05 It was told to us in the show that Pink Diamond had virtually no authority (in the eyes of the other diamonds anyway), and that they wouldn't listen to her no matter how hard she tried.
I just realized her gem is flipped like Spinel’s.
Wow...that might be a normal thing but it can also be due to her emotions
If Pink started the rebellion instead of Rose....would the gems wanting to rebel really trust her fully? Would they be doing it because they wanted to actually rebel...or because they were following the rule of their diamond...thus never actually being free. Pink would still have control over earth, etc. Also...how is Rose dating other people instead of Pearl...even if she was aware that pearl had romantic feelings for her.....show a lack of empathy? Like....she probably realized that her being in that kind of relationship with Pearl wouldn't be right, as the power dynamic would be super off...not to mention Pearl's obsession with Rose is just too much.... It wouldn't be good for either of them. And she has every right to date other people...like what is she supposed to do? Even if she did reciprocate those romantic feelings for Pearl....what is the issue with her dating other people knowing someone else is into her? She's not obligated to date them...she's not obligated to date Pearl if she doesn't want to. You not going out with a friend who you know has feelings for you, and going out with other people doesn't mean you lack empathy...it just means that you're living your own life. Sorry...that bit just really kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
It's impossible to imagine Bismuth following a Diamond like Pink; and since Sapphire became incensed at learning the truth so Garnet might not have either.
I feel like people would always use the zoo against Pink although Blue and Yellow created it so Pink shuts up about the life on earth.
I feel like Rose did love Pearl, but in a way you would love a loyal friend that you came to consider as a sister (or brother).
MrSasunaru101 p l a t o n i c
Alabama 100
Rose is just childish. She has good intentions but she always rushes through her decisions.
"Don't be silly...Rose Quartz isn't real..."
I feel like there's still a lot to learn about Pink Diamond, Rose, and what made her make the decision she made.
Rose is still my favorite character in the show, with Garnet a very close second. Learning about her flaws and history only makes me that much hungrier to learn more about the what and the why of what she did.
And of course, the part everyone seems to be overlooking...Steven is technically a Diamond.
I think that Rose's choice to fake her shattering was bad, but having read a handful of stories from survivors of child abuse, I can almost see why she didn't rebel as Pink Diamond. There was this one story about a person being so afraid of the potential of getting in trouble with their parents for going out of town with friends for the weekend or something and that anxiety led to them like, trying to find any and every excuse to try to get out of that potential situation. They had even tried to make it seem like they'd been attacked/hurt and therefore unable to go out of town, but more importantly that the reason for not going was not in their control. They'd also tried to come up with excuses to their parent in order to make it look like they had no choice but to go. Instead of just up and saying what they wanted, they tried to create a scenario where someone chose for them/would take the blame for the opposing party's disappointment or resentment or whatnot. The person felt awful about wanting to be deceptive but felt that was all they could do.
The whole storyline with Pink trying to make excuses for not being able to colonize Earth (Rose was preventing it, not her! The rebels don't want Earth destroyed. They have an army now called the Crystal Gems!) It felt almost like she got so caught up in being unable to properly stand up to the Diamonds who were sort of coded as abusive (or at the very least an incredibly toxic family) with Pink taking the role of the abuse survivor. Like it was so ingrained in her that she couldn't make the other Diamonds budge on anything and that made her feel powerless. Out of her hate for that feeling of powerlessness, she literally abandoned her old identity and all the flaws that she saw in herself as Pink. I think she genuinely wanted to become a better person and that she truly believed she had no other choice. It doesn't make it right or kind or anything but selfish, but it takes a different kind of person to willingly start a fight they not only know they can't win, but one that might wind up with them being hurt or having something they love (such as her Pearls) away.
I feel like Rose would have been a much better person to follow during Future- especially if the creative team wanted it to be a series about mental health and how mental illness can explain behaviors, but not forgive them. Rose would have fit the role future Steven played soooooo much better. And it also would've given us a chance to see how she thinks and acts for ourselves. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get that.
Well they did introduce the Rose Quartzes siblings tho
@@Sharpon I don't think that's what they meant
I found you through your "why a single pale rose is amazing" video and I have fallen in LOVE with your videos! They are so thoroughly thought through and carefully worded. You always raise great points and welcome criticism and discussion which I think is a breath of fresh air. Your honest, to the point, (and I find your voice very soothing) so thank you for making such amazing content! Love ya
Hmmm. I'm still curious as to how the diamonds would take the news about pink being rose, and how they will perceive steven now.
Akio Sutato
Same hete. I only recently started watching steven universe myself, so I'm trying to catch up with the lore.
James Cordial There's a lot to catch up on. And yeah, I also am curious as to how the diamonds will react. Makes me wonder if he'll end up become part of the diamond authority in pink diamonds place, or if he will bubble and end the diamond authority. It's so interesting to think of all the directions the crewniverse could take the show
Maybe steven would be treated like royalty
James Cordial Do the diamonds even view Stephen as his own being? During the trial they still viewed him as Rose but disguised to look different. So I wonder if they will believe he is really Pink Diamond but disguised or if they understand he is a hybrid and his own being. But I may have missed a crucial point and didn't realize that they have realized that. In that case please correct me if I'm wrong 😅
“She did everything she could as pink diamond, but her status meant nothing to the others.”
Gotta remember that the whole shattering thing was understandable in hindsight, because it's made clear that Pink was abused by her fellow diamonds. White was very controlling, literally, she took the original pink pearl, broke her, and made her into a puppeted husk.
Yellow was physically abusive as seen in Jungle Moon, and while Blue obviously loved her most, she was mentally abusive, locking pink in the tower, for days, even weeks, and made her cry. I think Pink saw how free and happy everyone on Earth was and yearned for it herself.
the song “love like you” i feel is rose singing to greg particularly because the line “if i could begin to be half of what you think of me” Greg briefly forgot rose isn’t a ‘real human being.’ steven is half human half gem, rose had steven and carries her gem so he can be the bridge between human and gems and learn to help them, learn how to love
I think the contrasts between Steven and Rose have always been at the heart of the show. Steven’s development can be seen through his relationship with Rose (which is also his relationship with himself, figuratively and literally).
At first, he is innocent and naive, believes what he’s told about Rose, the Gems, his past, etc. Then he starts feeling the pressure of who and what Rose was. He starts feeling insecure and worries that he’ll never measure up. Then, as he starts learning more about her, he starts questioning who Rose really was and wondering if she maybe wasn’t as great as he’s been told.
At this point, he’s matured past the the point Rose ever did. He can look at Rose’s actions and evaluate them somewhat objectively. He sees the mistakes Rose made, and does what she never could-he takes responsibility for them.
I think the show is again highlighting the differences between Steven and Rose. One of the biggest differences is Steven’s ability and/or willingness to take responsibility not only for his own actions and mistakes, but for his mother’s as well.
Rose could never take responsibility. Good or bad person, I think it’s clear she was, at the very least, quite childish. She basically pushed all of her problems away and hoped she’d never have to deal with them. (This has been obvious for a long time-look at what she did to Bismuth.)
Steven is courageous and willful, always wanting to find solutions to his problems. He doesn’t always find good solutions, he doesn’t always succeed, but he never runs away or pushes his problems onto others.
The characterization of Rose throughout the show has been, in my opinion, quite brilliant. From the very start, something seems strange about her. For a character praised by her followers as so perfect, she comes off as selfish and weirdly uncaring in a very subtle way. When you go back and watch the way she treats Pearl and Greg, you can see it. But it’s so subtle, I mistook it for awkward writing at first lol. My friend got me into this show and I used to talk to her about this years ago when I was first watching the earlier episodes. Seeing the reveal and thinking on it for a few weeks makes me appreciate the way they’ve handled Rose and, especially, Steven.
Can’t wait for the new eps! I think I’m more excited about this show than I’ve ever been.
Keep up the great vids! You are great at talking about this, and I am excited to hear more of your thoughts and theories!
This is incorrect rose was much more mature than we have seen Steven. The only reason he seems morally better is because he has hindsight on his side and even then rose was only in the wrong when it came to bismuth and not because she bubbled bismuth but because she kept bismuth in the bubble.
i think rose's motivations for her shattering was actually so that the rebellion would be taken seriously, and she saw no way that herself as pink diamond could save the earth as we see that she spoke and pleaded with blue and yellow to not destroy the earth (and all that happened was blue made the human zoo for her). We see it time and time again that she wanted to be taken seriously "I'm a diamond, I'm just as important as you" and even with the rebellion the other diamonds just told her to act professional and all her gems will fall in line and the colony will be completed. Rose shattering a Diamond means that Rose quartz IS a threat. Finally, for once in her life, Pink Diamond / Rose Quartz was taken seriously. Once Pink Diamond was dead, she thought that was the end of the story. Rose quartz shattered pink diamond. Any change to that story, in her mind, could ruin her rebellion.
I also think a big thing you missed in this video is that pink diamond is very obviously a child when she got her colony, probably the equivalent of around 13 or 14 human years (and a young adult by the time she meets greg). Of course she's immature and doesn't understand the consequences of her actions- she's young and inexperienced with the world. I don't know the exact timeline of this video being uploaded and what we knew at the time, but i do know that the very first we saw of pink diamond was her throwing a temper tantrum because yellow diamond wouldn't give her what she wanted (typical spoiled child behavior) Pink diamond is even dressed like a child! I have a whole working theory about Pink Diamond and growing up, and a lot of it centers around something i saw in a rewatch (can't remember the ep) but its when she first disguised as Rose Quartz just to check out the kindergarten in person and she's in such awe of how gems are being made out of nothing! how cool!! And then she sees the humans. She sees the life on earth. She experiences childhood disillusionment as she realizes that the creation of gems will destroy the life on this planet. Shouldn't she have known how gems were made? Shouldn't the other diamonds have told her how her world works?
Pink Diamond was a sheltered spoiled brat who grew up and tried to fix her mistakes without really knowing where to start. She probably had no idea that other gems, let alone other beings had the same thoughts and emotions as her because no one ever told her. By the time she realized it, she had spent so much time in the mindset that only diamonds have feelings that it's a diificult habit to break, so she treats everyone the way SHE wishes she was treated (which. isnt what everyone needs or wants)
A final note on the creation of steven- i think rose still harbored a lot of guilt for what she did to the earth and really wanted to give something back. How poetic is it, that a diamond made to rip the organic life from a planet instead created a whole new life?
Anyway! Loved the video, keep up the great work!!!
Is Rose a Bad Person? No...She did form
the Crystal Gems and they do “Defend the Earth and all it’s living things!”
but she is Ignorant of the consequences of her actions...Shattering her own Diamond and then leaving Steven to Deal with the Bullshit..very irresponsible..
And the situation with Spinel is am example of that...
She isn't bad but selfish and inconsiderate
She did not leave steven to deal with her stuff
This is even more complicated by the fact that Pink was emotionally abused by all three of her sisters, so I can’t really see what she’s supposed to mean. But I bet the point is she isn’t supposed to have a meaning to her, if that makes sense.
Addendum: It’s been a year or so, and my thoughts on Pink and Rose have arguably solidified.
She was a flawed being forced to be perfect, and any time she broke that facade, her sisters locked her in a tower for presumably hundreds of collective years. She cried so heavily that the inanimate pebbles in her sink’s basin came alive. One of her outbursts resulted in the permanent physical/psychological damage of her Pearl, which caused her to completely stop using any harmful powers.
She was abused, and that to me is why her actions left many people hurt. Abuse, trauma, and the love that exists despite them are the main thematic elements of Steven Universe, and they apply to all characters. So I can say this with certainty: Pink/Rose weren’t bad “people,” they were just “people.”
Mmm everything is so complex
The thing that gets me about a lot of the hate that Pink Diamond gets is based on this weird idea that because she was moving constantly towards self-improvement and managed to be both very charming and very reserved, she was obligated to be clairvoyant about everything that would happen after her disappearance and the future thoughts of others. She comes from a place of extreme privilege and misconception of what emotions even _are,_ she had to teach _herself_ empathy through cultural osmosis, after being shown no empathy by her family her entire milliennia-long life, and every step of her life is a clear journey towards her own idea of enlightenment: the experience of being an organically-living thing. The rest of the Gems in her life literally do not grow unless forced by outside circumstance because _being able to grow_ was Pink Diamond's greatest virtue. The problem with being a person who dedicates themselves to growing into the best version of themselves inevitably outgrows the people who were best for the prior best-version, and it's wrong to blame Rose for "abandoning" Spinel, who refused to just not follow her when she tried to leave honestly, or the Crystal Gems for taking their leader away without the truth, because as far as she could have possibly known, the conflict with Homeworld was permanently over. She had no way of knowing about the Cluster or that any of the other Diamonds might have a reason to deal with Earth any further. It's not fair to make her responsible for the reactions of other people just because she chose to climb down from the pedestal they put her on. Steven's dedication to the idea that "you can make it better, it can BE better" is entirely the influence of his Rose half, that's how it manifests: she has empathy now, and she prefers to be called Steven.
The answer is yes. Buuut, it was how she was raised as a diamond, raised to believe she’s above the common gems but below the other diamonds. I think it’s very interesting that she found love for life. She is definitely not a good person, but for what she was, she was definitely not a bad one.
Video: is pink diamond aka rose quartz a bad person
Spinel: *puts hands together* SO
I never like when so many people would hate pink Diamond for everything she did and how she hurt and abandoned her friends and family to “run away from her problems”. So she has some flaws and is impulsive, plenty of the other characters are flawed in their own ways, especially in season 1. Pink had to make really intense decisions, like when she abandoned spinel. Do you really think she didn’t feel terrible guilty for that? She knew she would be leaving everyone she cared about, but she also knew she couldn’t go back. I just wish that people wouldn’t be so quick to judge her
Rose wasn't a bad person in the sense that she never meant to harm anyone on purpose. But she was a coward for not facing her problems. Rose kept Bismuth in a bubble for longer than she needed to. She forbidded Pearl from talking about Pink Diamond's shattering. She hid her true identity from Garnet and Amethyst for centuries. Rose was always hurting the people who loved her by accident, but she kept piling up those issues instead of tackling them.
Seriously,how could she tackle them?She faced the Diamonds,and they told her that they basically don't care about her"excuses".And how would others react if Rose did what she wanted to do as Pink Diamond?And what would've had happened if the Diamonds found out she was Rose?I personally even think Steven would not even exist if Rose didn't do what she did
i agree, but i also think that her not wanting to face her problems just makes her more of a relatable character. most people don't want to face their problems, or outright refuse to.
Also, being unable to feel empathy for others and being unable to pick up on the emotional state of others are two very different things. Gems in general don't tend to understand emotions and human relationships very well without Steven link-between-worlds Universe helping them. Granted Rose did not understand Pearls feeling, but if Pearl had been straightforward with them instead of going around her back, it would have gone better. I know cause that's exactly what Greg did and it turned out that she did empathize with how he was feeling (in the episode appropriately titled We Need to Talk) when he said that loving her was like torture. She immediately feels guilt and regret for having done that to him, even if the complexity of his emotions still leaves her confused. She can't really understand intuitively how others feel, but she does CARE how others feel. Deeply.
Sorry for posting so much in opposition to your point, I just feel like I'm coming to grips with my own feelings about it as I write.
It seems to me that Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond was a child in a lot of ways. Throwing tantrums for not having her own world while being "just as important as the other Diamonds" but not acting like a Diamond/adult, lying and shifting blame so she wouldn't get in trouble, being a part of a group her family(Blue and Yellow as older sisters/mom-figures)would never want her to be around, running away from home to be with said group(life on Earth), changing her looks to express who she wants to be and not who she's told to be.
We know when a gem is born, they burst out of the ground fully formed and knowing their purpose in life. The same could be said for the Diamonds. When Pink gets to Earth and sees how so vastly different life is for other beings and how humans choose their own way of life, maybe she wants that for herself? She didn't choose to be a diamond. She didn't ask for the responsibility of being a diamond. So Pink throws it all away and becomes Rose Quartz. A gem with a blank purpose, one she chooses. A gem who can change if she wants to. But no matter how much she deludes herself into thinking she's Rose, she's still a diamond. She has a predetermined use. She's only playing pretend.
Thanks to Greg though, she finally starts to grow up a bit.
She grew up a bit when she risked shattering to protect this world and gave Pearl a choice whether she'd join her or stay safe on Homeworld.
It's pretty grown up to offer a Pearl a choice, tell a Fused Garnet that she is beautiful just the way she is, and adopt a defective overcooked Amethyst.
Her choices caused pain, but she was living in a world of holocaust.
You have to make hard calls in that situation
Very true, I wasn't considering those events.
I think this would be interesting to revisit now that the series has concluded [for the time, I hope]. Personally, I'm still of the mindset that she was a good person at the end of her life and really was working to fix her mistakes. But since we got her development in reverse chronological order, all a lot of us remember is the selfish brat who did what she wanted, and not the person who spent the rest of her life trying to fix her mistakes and protect the world that changed her. Did she do it well? No, I will admit that, but to say that Rose wasn't at least trying to be better is dishonest at best.
That's an interesting way to see it
Real late but, Rose wasn’t a necessarily “Bad” person, she was too young to make elaborate decisions, she was showed as a child, impatient, curious, and demanding, she couldn’t merely lead a rebellion by herself. She most likely had a ton of help from garnet (for future sight) and pearl (cuz she is a pearl) so Rose was very immature and very confused, she also had to face the role of being pink too, this is only my opinion and if you have any counter arguments please reply I guess.
People before: Yeah, she's not that bad.
After the movie: YES! YES, SHE IS HORRIBLE!!!!
that's because pink diamond gets blamed by everything bad that happens most of the time '-'
@@zerocrashmurilo because 98% of the bad things that happened in the show only happened because of her. She isn't just apathetic, she used others and just left/bubbled/gave nothing back to them.
She ends up being bad due to her apathy, recklessness and childishness.
true, thought maybe not everything should be pink's fault, heck i've seen people say pink's probably the cause of like half of the villains in the new show/season whatever
Yep XD
@@gojifox5698 Technically, every bad thing that happened in the show happened because White Diamond created a tyrannical fascist dictatorship. If White had been a good person, leader and parental figure none of the bad things would've ever happened (though Steven might not have ever existed).
"Was rose quartz (or pink diamond) a bad person?"
Spinel: *yes*
Fuck spinel
@@goose6457 lol Yeah!!
@@goose6457 she literallys so annoying i really kinda dislike her
@@erastiesa ikr, she supposed to be the villain. She tries to kill the crystal gems and destroy all life on earth, all she does is make situations worse through out the movie and ruin songs but when she comes put with her backstory she's just instantly excused... like wtf
In my opinion, She was a good person who just wanted to make a change. You see Pink wasn't like the other diamonds. Pink never shattered anyone. Take Bismuth for example. Rose didn't want Bismuth to kill anyone so instead of shattering her she just bubbled her. Despite everything Pink did she just wanted to spare life in Earth. Spinel was also just left on that garden because Pink wanted to take her responsibility as a diamond and rule her colony. She just made bad choices.
“Rose can’t read minds”
*Steven literally goes into another dimension where he can hear the thoughts of the people around him during a fight with the diamonds*
Maybe she never knew all she could do because gems aren't supposed feel. They are supposed to do their jobs and nothing else.
You do realize that this video was made before the diamond fight even happened, right?
Pink and her actions reminds me of a child’s, which isn’t too surprising given that she was obviously way less mature than the other 3 diamonds for a long time before she gained Earth. Children don’t really think about how their actions will affect others and i know from when i was younger, sometimes it felt easier to say you lost control of a situation rather than owning up to certain things.
Did they just do something here with Rose that's similar to Luke in The Last Jedi?..... dang. I mean think about it, Rose and Luke were hailed as heroes and leaders in their respective Rebellions leading to victory. Years into the future we find out both were flawed and made major mistakes that costed lives and sparked a cycle of war. They began to learn from their mistakes and tried to redeem themselves whether or not they succeed. In the process, a new hero arises in Steven and Rei and learns from the mistakes of the past and bring forth a new era and end the war.
I see her as an individual who do things with good intentions, but doing things without thinking about the possible large consequences of her actions at all, which makes her appear more selfish than one would want or expect.
Me: "Was Rose Quartz a bad person?"
Me, after watching the movie: *WhY aRe wE dEbAtInG tHiS?*
(Honestly tho, I think she's just ridiculously flawed and selfish but overral a good person )
I agree. Maybe her ideas didn't go great but sometimes life hurts. Gems aren't supposed feel anything about anything. Do your job. She chose to leave her past behind and become rose. Pearl was her friend who she cared about but not to the same degree. Pearl would have done anything for her no matter who she was because she was supposed to that her job.
Considering recent events (SUF) there is no doubt in my mind she is a terrible person.
@@emm8657 shes actually not bad or good
She had no empathy or understanding of other beings just like the diamonds because she was a Diamond
There are hints that pink dimand was emotionally neglected and emotionally abused. I think this is why she had the need to escape from everything that had to do with pink dimand.
Personally, I think she was more or less morally gray. Sure, she did bad, but you can't discount the good because of it. I just wish that more people would see the good in her then the bad.
At the end of the day... We can criticize her decisions all we want but we never will walk in her shoes or realistically be put in the situation she was in to know how to go about it. Also, considering the THOUSANDS of years of abuse she endured before her "shattering" and giving birth to Steven, I don't think she's really capable of thinking things out correspondingly given the fact that she had NO support system besides Volleyball... Well until... Ya know...
I don’t think she was, she was so interested in earth and humans, she wasn’t thinking about the consequences. She wasn’t the smartest person, she just wasn’t thinking about her actions.
Rose: **exists**
Fandom: BAD PERSON!!
me: she tried...
I don’t think she lacked empathy per say, but that it’s not normal on Homeworld for a diamond to care about others other than prolly each other that was what she was taught and of course habits are hard to break she needed to be shown what empathy was taught it-showed what is right and wrong, considered normal and abnormal, what is sensitive and insensitive and so on, but she did eventually break them and she gained it, she got wiser from her time on Earth and from Greg. Her character development is in reverse
I think Rose *wanted* to be a good person. I think she used the persona of Rose to try and improve herself. I think she wanted to understand others' feelings. I think that was part of her motivation to become/have Steven. To be either born again, or at least be part of someone better. To be human. Humans were what she wasn't. They changed. They grew. They matured. She didn't. She couldn't. She tried to escape the Diamond mentality but she couldn't. Steven, though, is human. He's grown. He's changed. He has empathy. Some of his powers are based around it. Because of his humanity, he's one of the most selfless, compassionate, empathetic people out there. Even if Rose is gone now, at least, in the end, she's part of what she always wanted. At least, that's why I think she largely wanted Steven. Was there some responsibility escaping, selfish tendencies fueling it? Yeah. But I think her want to be a better person was a large part, and I think the persona of Rose was an attempt at that.
Why does the poll only have a yes and no option. Where's the "morality is complex and subjective and Rose Quartz did both good and bad things. You can't ignore the horrible pain she's caused, and you also can't ignore her efforts to do good and become better than the society in which she grew up" option
After the movie...
Yes
Yes she is
No. She isnt, she was immature and reckless, but she grew as a person as rose.
Mint Feather no she is still a bad person
@@moooimmacow930 not bad. She had good intentions, just didnt do it well.
@@moooimmacow930 oh but I bet you looked past the other Diamonds commiting mass genocide under their xenophobic dictatorship rule across the galaxy
ainsley harriot nah i think they are all bad
She’s not a bad person. She had good intentions but was too childlike to do them properly. However we can argue about how there was NO WAY she woulda been able to bring Spinel with her
Thank you
Thank you. She just flawed, like everyone else.
Sure, she did some questionable things, but the logic behind her actions isn’t far fetched at all. This doesn’t justify her but it is understandable.
The whole “I want a colony and then save it from my family”? She was abused by them, no matter how much they loved her. And the first thing to do when you are in a toxic relationship (even in family) is “Get out and seek help”.
Abandoning Spinel? It happened long BEFORE her character development, and the Diamonds always taught her to treat other Gems lowly. In this case, Spinel was nothing but a living plaything for her that must be thrown away to prove others that she’s mature enough to guide a colony.
Volleyball? It was just an accident.
And she did show regrets for her action.
And if Pink/Rose is evil for making mistakes, then so are the Crystal Gems.
I honestly can't believe that for over 6000 years they thought Rose was really good. 6000 YEARS They don't think or what? Rose was a war leader, obviously she has dark secrets
I'm not against rose, she was flawed and misguided like many of us.
I don't think she had a lack of empathy, she just couldn't read emotions well which caused her to be a bit jerky and inconsiderate and i can relate to that (minor Asperger's).
She had consideration for others which was highlighted by her healing tears she cried when gems got hurt and lion she brought back to life.
"Villian" no, "angel" not even close, "like everybody else" yes
i don’t think Rose loved pearl like that though. She loved her yes but wasn’t able to love her more that just being a good companion
Thank you!
Though you could maybe say that it is Rose's fault that pearl was so obsessed. When they first tried to fuse pearl starts explaining the feelings that she sometimes has and says that she needs to stop thinking them to which rose tells her "Don't ever stop" this was before the shattering we can assume by the timeline of events meaning that rose had not given up her authority over pearl (she says in a pale rose "as my last order as a diamond") so she may have forced pearl to feel that way by order alone.
What she did to Spinel kind of seals it for me..
I don't think rose was evil and during the end of her "life" she changed to a more mature character and felt guilty and ashamed for what she stood for and what she did as pink diamond so she never told her friends for fear of what they would think of her. I think after "we need to talk" she changed, slowly but yeah. She's not perfect but she's not evil
Rose quartz was a teenager who thought she deserved more then she wanted so she ran away from home and when she figured out that she couldn't run away from her problems she fixed them by becoming a teen mom
i'd say that a horrible miss read of what happened.
I'd say rose was more the spoiled brat aristocrat child that once she got to see the real world (was given earth) she saw the system was a lie and wanted out.
pinks plan did not start was running away it started as saving the earth and then grew into freeing other gems from the oppressive system the other diamonds enforced. and through out all that it wasn't pinks plans did not involve her leaving the diamond authority. it wasn't until over half way through the war that the plan to shatter came into be.
i really cant see how people think pink was being selfish to do all of this.
i mean she wasn't really getting anything but the satisfaction of saving the earth and freeing gems until near the end.
Yeah, that's a better summary
dexdrako Reading this made me realize PD is similar in many ways to the Buddha. The Buddha was a rich, spoiled aristocrat teenager who stepped into the real world initially out of selfish desire, but seeing that the system he was a part of was a lie he decided to step away from it and help others do the same.
I wouldnt say she step down for the reason of finding the sytem was a lie but reather as she didnt want to take the responsability of been part of it.
so your saying being on earth 5,000 years makes her a teen?
That moment when Steven is more mature than his mom...
*Laughs in Spinel*
I don't think you go to war for cute puppies that you kiss and have babies with. There was something more to that. I think she just general of the Earth in the mystery of it. No one not even one of the Crystal Gems really understand what it is. They just know it's great and that's there's life. Everyone at the Crystal Gems had their own reason for protecting Earth
Considering how Blue addresses Steven in "Change Your Mind," I think she dismissed Pink's direct arguments, reading them as "excuses."
Like honestly she grew up with a Shatterer, a colonizer, and whatever tf White Diamond was on, and she STILL had enough inherit goodness to realize how effed up what was happening was, and the balls to actually do something about it.
1: If Rose did bring Spinel, a perfectly cut, PINK Spinel, who at this point is still all puppies and giggles and stuff, Spinel probably would've gotten herself or another Gem shattered. OR she would have blabbed that Rose was actually Pink Diamond, to the entire rebellion, with Gems like Bismuth, who wanted to shatter her.
2: Pearl. Rose and Pearl. Rose did not HAVE to like Pearl back, she is not obligated to because Pearl likes her. Pearl chose to be down bad for Rose, and Rose didn't. Simple as that. Remember that moment with the Zoomans where Greg said that HE had a say in their relationship too? It's like that.
3: And Steven! Let me say this: It was her choice. It had been over 5000 years since they last had contact with Homeworld, she may be a Diamond, but she cannot see into the future. Greg, Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl were all fully functioning adults. A lot of the situations Steven had to deal with when it came to them (Pearl almost letting him die, then her trauma dumping on him, Garnet being a mess in front of him, Greg never taking him to the hospital etc...), that was THEIR fault, not Roses. They have their problems, and they are NOT Roses. If she tried to help all of them with their own problems, and put them first, she probably would have ended up like how Steven did in SU Future. (A mess.)
She can do things that are kinda dumb (Telling Spinel to stand still of all the things was NOT a 1000 IQ move), and left a negative print on Stevens life, but she is only 1 being, and no living, feeling being is going to be perfect. And she had needs too, she just made sure to attend to them.
(Not a direct response to the vid, but to the comments.)
To be honest, Rose seems like one of the more human characters to me. She acts like a spoiled teen. Spoiled teens are unlikable and tend to be the most hated characters in any given show, but they're not bad people. I knew plenty of spoiled teens who grew up to be good folks. I think a lot of the show's fanbase sees things in her they see in themselves they don't like, so she gets crucified lol.
Plus Rose's/Steven's arc are reflective of a lot of people's journey with their parents. When you're young you really look up to them and think they're perfect, but as you get older you realize they're just flawed humans.
**spinel wants to know your location*
Was she bad? Well Pink Diamond herself seems to think so (I'm thinking of the Love Like You song). If you ask me, I think she's about as flawed as anyone else on the show but ultimately good at her core.
The fact that the movie encourages the fact that she does what she wants to the point of leaving anyone whi isnt of any use to her or makes her feel bad in any way makes her way worse than I thought she was..
Turned out my friends who initially thought that were right
Huh, the way you described Steven's Birth ultimately leading to Rose's death was like the end of Revenge of the Sith... except done better :P
I read this title as “Was Rose Quarts a Bird Person?”
Your videos are so in depth! I love them. They're really making me love Steven Universe even more :)
After the events of the movie this topic may need revisiting
6:22 actually, it's possible that she didn't want to tell them her secret because of Steven; if she had told them she was pink diamond right before she became Steven, she would risk the crystal gems not only getting upset, but running away and leaving Greg to care for Steven alone; pretty much exactly like we saw Sapphire do in the trailer for the new episodes. She knew how much Pearl hated Greg, and chances are she knew that Pearl wasn't happy about her decision to leave her to become Steven; she could've been worried that even Pearl would leave once she was gone, and abandoning Greg to take care of Steven alone would've been potentially dangerous, since Steven isn't a normal human. She wanted the crystal gems to stay and be there for steven, both to protect him and to raise him, since there was still the danger of at least the corrupted gems, if not Homeworld itself. I personally think that her decision to take her secrets to her grave was a choice made at least in part to protect Steven, but that's just my unimportant opinion.
10:40. Yes but HUMANITY would’ve been doomed if Rose didn’t rebel. Remember?
I really hate how some hate Pink for leaving spinel in the garden. Yet spinel did worse such as wanting to leave Steven powerless on a half destroyed planet without any humans or his friends for something he didn't even do and no don't guard spinel by her being abandoned by Pink. And the diamonds shattered several gems and put their gems through a large amount of pressure. Pink isn't good but she isn't bad
Thank you spinel is overrated i wish she never existed
@@hueyfreeman6262 ikr the most of the
fandom loves her but she's like pink.
@@marinasplanetbackup3693 she became everyone's favourite characters
Yup.
HUMAN ZOO WASN'T MADE BY PINK, IT WAS BLUE AND YELLOW REACTION TO PINK PLEAS TO SPARE THE LIFE EXISTING ON EARTH.
Pink Diamond didn't ask for the Human Zoo though. She asked "for life to be spared on earth" so Blue Diamond built the Human Zoo for her.
Just because it's labelled "Pink's Human Zoo" doesn't mean it was her idea
That is a retcon told through Pearl who we KNOW is an unreliable narrator which is said by amethyst like... right after that story is being told. Fact is, Pearl still defends Rose’s actions and has some form of hero worship that causes her to LITERALLY look through rose-tinted glasses. It was Rose’s idea, and even if she wasn’t her actions still allowed it to come to pass and that was YET ANOTHER thing she didn’t bother to fix or handle before her death that she knew was coming.
I think the problem with the way that a lot of people view rose quartz is the fact that we saw her development as a person in reverse. The earliest scenes of her chronologically are the scenes of pink, the person she became was ultimately a flawed but pretty OK person. She had to unlearn a lot of toxic things and learn a lot of good things that she was never taught. She started to notice the injustice and horrible things happening around her and wanted them to stop she tried to go through things the proper way and it didn’t work out so she had to try a new way. personally I think rose quartz was a good person she had to unlearn being pink diamond and I don’t feel like she truly was able to do that until she met Greg she learned how to be rose quartz but still hadn’t forgotten being pink. As you grow up you learn things about parents that couldn’t be there for you and they’re not always easy things to learn it can be scary to learn that they’re so different than the idealized version of them that you had in your head but it’s never a bad thing to learn more Steven is able to see Rose differently because of all of the things he’s learned and I don’t think he sees her as a bad person. Sorry I’m rambling but just wanted to get my thoughts out there great video by the way
I don't think she lacked empathy because she treated the worms, Pink Pearl, and the pebbles with respect. When Pink did show her empathic side the diamonds would punish her. I think that's why she started having problems with empathy later on in her life and she believed that she was incapable of empathy. The Diamonds abuse ruined her. She wanted to give gemkind freedom and she wanted to save the Earth that means she had some empathy in her still but i think she'll think ill about her actions in her head. I hope Rebecca makes a tv series about PD's life because nobody fuckin understands PD. Rebecca said in the end of a era book that Rose Diamond was never in a good mentality.
It'd be interesting to see your take on this now with more information, seeing as some of your opinions here are based on misinformation. Things like Pink lying to the Diamonds about why she wants to stop the colony, when really their refusing to listen to her was what spawned the rebellion. And of course, Spinel.
I don't think Pink was inherently a bad person, at least no worse than any of the other diamonds. She was well-intentioned, if misguided, and would like to see more recognition of her better side, since it feels like it's been all about the bad things she did as of late.
Rose Quartz is NOT a bad person, look, lying about who she was or at least, who she used to be, was wrong. No defending that. But on the subject of the war and her relationship to the other Diamonds (or at least Blue and Yellow).
Yes, in theory, as a Diamond now in the process of procuring a colony of her own, she wouldn't be any more or less important than Blue, Yellow, or White. But here's the thing, Rose wasn't JUST a Diamond, she was an OFF-COLOR Diamond. I mean, it's clear given the "Rose Cut" formation of her gem and her small stature that she's off color, I mean, you ever look up what Tutankhamun really looked like, or researched the Hapsburg family tree? This is basically the gem equivalent.
Normally, Off Color Gems would be shattered or chased off into hiding, but either due to her status as a Diamond or some other factor we don't know, they kept Pink Diamond. So even though they were technically equal, the other Diamonds, especially Yellow it seems, couldn't help but look down on her.
But to Pink, this made no sense, why should it matter she was small? She was the Diamond for Earth's colony, shouldn't SHE have the final say? But it's clear from the flashback from "Can't Go Back" that she was merely a figurehead, just supposed to sit around a look nice for her court. Becoming Rose Quartz may have been the first REAL choice she ever made, that's not to say it was OK to lie to everyone about who she was, it's not, don't be mistaken. But if her efforts to spare earth were getting her nowhere as Pink Diamond, while Rose Quartz seemed to have been making a difference for 700 years prior to Pink's "shattering", I can understand why she thought this was best course of action.
I'm not sure I can blame her for denying she was Pink Diamond-where did rank ever get her?
Ignored, pressured to do things she could never consent to, forced to see her system of government shatter defective or fused Gems.
It must have been traumatizing, knowing that she should be the one shattered, that she was defective, too.
I don't think she liked Pink Diamond.
I don't think she wanted to remember.
Indeed, I sympathize with her reasoning, but it crossed the line for many by keeping it a secret from the other Gems, if she had maybe waited until after the war to tell them "I haven't been honest with you, but for the sake of our rebellion, I haven't told you all until now, I was Pink Diamond" I still think Garnet would have been shaken by the revelation, but she would have understood if she told her after Homeworld seemed to be truly gone and that it was Rose who was telling her.
I honestly see Rose as a sort of tragic hero, she seems to be a decent, loving person who just wants to do the right thing, but either due to her naivete or inexperience, her victories end up costing more than she may have bargained for. Yes, she saved the earth, and maybe from a certain perspective, she 'won' the Gem war, but now all earth gems, both Crystal Gem and Homeworld Loyalist have now either been corrupted or shattered for forced fusion experiments. Having Steven may have been the push the Gems needed to socialize with humans more, thus helping them grow and change for the better, but her death left them all, ESPECIALLY Pearl, emotionally devastated. She may have moved on from the "Pink Diamond" identity, but now that that particular cat is out of the bag, now everyone she loved and cared about now feels betrayed.
This was someone who had the best intentions that was brought low by their personal failures.
Still, I don't think she wanted to look back.
Ever.
I think she accepted Garnet as she was, without constantly asking them to unfuse, because she wanted to be accepted for who she was and not who she was made to be, and wanted that for others.
She made this her whole message to Gems who were defective or perfect, fused or single-gem, that your purpose and gem-type is not what makes you you.
I never said she was keeping her traumatic and restrictive past behind her for the rebellion (though the rebellion could never have succeeded if she hadn't)-but I don't think she ever wanted to think about it again or have it come up.
Have you ever known someone from a domestically abusive or controlling situation who didn't want to tell people about it, as long as it would never come up or affect them again?
I makes me wonder when the other Gems found Amethyst in the Prime Kindergarten, if Rose couldn't help but see herself in Amethyst.
I mean, she much smaller than she's supposed to be, kind of impulsive, mouths off to her authority figures, is genuinely sweet and cares alot about those that are close to her, but can at times seem a little insensitive and is not without her own personal set of demons.
Before the reveal, I also thought perhaps Rose wanted to raise Amethyst in a way that would make her seem more "human", like letting her eat and sleep, so as to see if the warlike tendencies and lack empathy of a typical Quartz was simply natural or something taught, as I thought THAT was the reason Rose seemed apathetic, since she belonged to a cut of Gem made to fight, valuing life would have seemed strange and new to her. Of course now that Theory can just be chucked to the wayside, at least in relation to Rose, but the parallels between Pink Diamond and Amethyst I thought were quite noticeable.
I thought so, too.
Except about her Gem-type having any impact on her respect for life, since I'm pretty sure Homeworld has none.
Since I found out she was PD, I've been thinking that's why she's obsessed with defective Gems and organics, since their fate not being set in stone means hers might not be, either.
I think that's why she liked Greg.
There was nothing stable in his life, but he changed his name and moved around, and became a rockstar, and did what he wanted.
Also, he gave his new name to his kid, too, and even made a family as "Mr Universe", instead of worrying about who he "really" was.
I think that reinvention is something she'd find attractive.
(But I don't actually know her tastes. I think reinvention was something she liked, but we'll learn more as the show progresses.)
Wow someone who understands. I just found your channel today and I love it so far. Btw I love your gem character design. Very creative keep up the work!
On how she didn’t say she wanted to leave the earth alone
“when she told them she wanted to preserve life on earth, they created the zoo and threw a handful of humans in. She did everything she could as Pink Diamond, but her status meant nothing to Blue and Yellow”