Dissociation Works Like This
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
- Most of the time, we experience life continuously. But sometimes that continuous process gets interrupted, and we're suddenly separated from the flow of reality around us.
This is called dissociation, and it's totally normal...most of the time.
0:00 Introduction
1:07 What's dissociation?
2:12 Three levels of dissociation
4:51 Dissociation is a coping response
6:29 Mindfulness for dissociation
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I totally agree that mindfulness for people who struggle with dissociation can be counter-productive, since the brain has pretty much wired itself to use dissociation and be in a dissociated state as soon as any stress is involved. being present in the moment can feel really uncomfortable and scary for people who have used dissociation as a coping mechanism.
THIS.
Well and if you already tend to overthink, or even just tend to think more deeply, forcing yourself into a state where you’re trying to think EVEN MORE DEEPLY is like, as my therapist put it, “taking a Brillo pad to your soul.” That’s too much, you may well experience a reaction! Perhaps taking a gentle look at your soul would be the preferred method: be gentle, your brain is just squishy stuff with electricity running through it
ok but facing origins of hardship is still better. counterproductive? god no. if you protect yourself and stay in that way then any stress day to day does NOT get easier. everything becomes extra. so with care and experience this thinking is just destructive. mindfulness is often bs never mind that but addressing trauma is going to be hard. therapy is uncomfortable af. growing is not a cosy couch.
This is just so flipping out there. My husband grew up in trauma and tunes out. I feel good solving problems. I grew up where problems were solved with loving kindness and support and were even fun to work thru and learn and address.
How does a person get so messed up? It’s so incredibly sad. Life doesn’t get better by avoiding issues.
lila wrote, _"...can be counter-productive"_
I would refine this a bit and say that they can be _uncomfortable._ Discomfort often accompanies change, particular _positive_ change in the face of _negative_ conditioning. Granted, a blanket-approach to anything risks oversimplification and/or over-generalization, but... even small, incremental steps toward the positive are better than avoiding discomfort altogether. As someone else in this thread as rightly observed, "Life doesn't get better by avoiding issues."
I dissociated multiple entire years of my life. When i came out the other end my ego was obliterated. I no longer knew who i was or what i wanted and my memory from before which used to be really good was shot full of holes and extremely foggy. I still feel very lost and i hope i’ll somehow find my way again one day
That’s also me currently
Nothing lasts forever 🙏 Goodluck
I hope you have safe resting places and caring support people to help you re-orient 🫂
I feel like i also go through long periods of dissociation. Sometimes i wonder if i have been dissociating for years myself. For years ive just felt completely out of control and helpless and ill have these moments of being "awake" but then i just go back to feeling out of control. Its like for a moment everything is bright and vivid! I feel super present and its almost overwhelming. But also kinda beautiful. But then i slip back into gray. It feels like that is my default anymore. I went through about a month where it was so bad i felt like my "spirit", for lack of a better word, was shifted about 3-4 inches to my right side. It was really distressing. Im sorry you had to go through that and i just wanted to share because i can understand to a certain extent. Youre not alone. And we will get better! I just got a kick in the pants today and i feel alive for the time being. I feel some control. And im taking advantage of it by getting out of the job i hate so damn much. Maybe this will help me keep the momentum 😁 work stresses me out like not other. I think quitting may help me not dissociate so bad or so much
Yep
I've been wandering through my life in almost a dreamlike haze since highschool. It's like everything is just out of reach at all times. I live in my head almost all the time, and the few moments of clarity I've had through the years have reminded me how I'm supposed to feel. It's so depressing knowing that I'm not experiencing life like I should be.
Exactly! Me too 🥺
I feel like I've been struck in the head with a shovel, and the shovel's stuck inside my head. Or a frying pan. Like I'm recovering from a major physical trauma, getting my bearings, always. On ADHD diagnosis/meds now for a year and a half but am not sure whether or not it's correct/good.
Before was monopolar bipolar (yes), before that - clinical depression. Eaten a few different meds in 2-3 year bouts, no lasting positive effects.
All in all, tiring. :)
After years of being in a dissociative state it starts to get to the point where you wonder, did I imagine all of this, is this just normal? But maybe once a year I also have rare moments of clarity where everything feels just a bit closer, my eyes see just a bit sharper and I think: this is how it should be.
Sending love to all of you and hope that one day it will fade.
it’s gonna be okay stop relating to the bad start relating to the good 😊
This hit home ❤
When I was a kid it was "oh she's just a daydreamer, nose always in a book, head in the clouds" and "she's too sensitive." Never a thought it could be the years of trauma affecting me, just that I was "odd" and a pain to look after.
Supressed my "quirks" until they came out as a psychosomatic nerve disorder, combined with days-long episodes of not knowing who/where I was. Been working hard on getting better for several years, in many ways.
Thank goodness for free information given by people smarter and more compassionate than those that I grew up around. I'd not have been able to get this far without YT and podcasts, tbh.
Good luck on your journey!
❤❤❤
💚 yt has been a blessing in my life too 💝
Sounds a lot like me before I was diagnosed with autism
Keep healing ❤
Maybe I’m strange but disassociation has saved my life. It’s wonderful to have your brain shut down instead of feeling all the trauma at once. My feelings have been released later when I’m safe.
Always nice to have a ''safety shelf".
Dissociation
Not strange at all, dissociation can help us survive difficult times until we’re safe enough to actually face what we’re going through
not strange at all. dissociation is a surviving mecanism. In the instant, the brain has no choice to survive. BUT.. in long term, this protection is very counter productive and very dangerous because, when we are dissociated, we don't live our life, we just survive...
@@elouan5092maybe that’s all we want now.
I dissociate due to sensory overload. Mindfulness when im overstimulated doesnt help. Thank you for explaining this. Its the first time hearing this.
YES. I definitely dissociate when in sensory overload
Yes I get this, and when I went through some really hard traumatic events I felt that way constantly until I got through it, almost like when I tried to be present I just felt overwhelmed
@@Unity116 im sorry you went through trauma. I truly believe our brain dissociating is a way to protect ourselves. I hope you find love, peace and harmony 💜💜
@@Kelli5555 it's okay I've found resolution and peace through Jesus, but I agree that it is helpful so we can take the time we need to heal from what has happened to us
I thought your description of sensory overload was a very accurate one
A therapist tried to take me into a kind of meditative, yoga-like state… it was a disaster - a weird panic attack ensued with a feeling of rushing away from myself at great speed into a terrifying abyss - she stopped it immediately and acknowledged that the ego can be so frail from abuse or trauma that attempts at a Buddhist-like detachment can be harmful.
Same! He guided me through my worst fear, aka being stuck on the oakland san Francisco bay bridge in traffic for hours. I haven't been able to cross bridges since 2010. Son of a b*tch that psychologist was. I tried a 10 day silent meditation retreat at age 20 and felt disconnected in a bad way, I ended up just suffering through. Too much mental alone time can be harmful to people.
My therapist tried hypnotism with me. It worked the first time, but the second time my body physically rebelled at being put into that state. My right leg began to shake, keeping me aware and the harder he pushed the more violently my leg shook until it shook me right out of the chair. I still have no idea why my mind felt so unsafe in that state that my body simply refused to let it happen again. I was 13 and grew up in a...difficult...family where I was abused in every way (except sexual) on a daily basis. [This is not to say that sexual abuse didn't happen, only that it was not daily]
@@SaravonThe harm done to you was the abuse. The situation you experienced was unhealed trauma. I am assuming you went on a Vipassana retreat. I have never gone but there are other people there so you're not completely isolated . It's just silent. Intentional solitude is NOT harmful! They ask you if you have psychological problems. If you didn't disclose them, that's on you. It makes sense that a person repressing trauma would not be a good fit for that sort of intense retreat but it's not the meditation's fault!
Breath ..best thing is lay on bed comphy spread hands and legs relax breath..let ur mind direct you where to go or what to make..
@@jupiterchickYeah, no. Vispassana is the problem.
Who else dissociated 30 seconds in and had to restart 👋
???? WHAT !
I started dissociated and tuned in a minute or so in. Does that count? 😂
Hahaha. Yup!😊
Constantly rewinding lol
I sure did
It’s true for me; yoga, meditation, tapping and mindfulness brings on terrifying anxiety. I never benefited from them.
Agreed - I am ok with meditation sometimes, but mostly, not really. I often start feeling squirmy and like I want to run away, but last time I had a bad reaction to it, it was an anxiety attack.
There's a misnomer that the purpose of meditation is relaxation. It's not always roses and butterflies, it can be intense. You're forcing yourself to sit with things we habitually run away from. This is why guidance from a Guru and the wisdom and philosophy backing these practices are crucial. It ultimately leads to a loosening of the grip our trauma has on us, at least in my experience. But serious trauma probably needs additional assistance, e.g. from therapy, or a personalised meditation practice that works for you, typically from a Guru
I use meditation to go to another place haha. So that help me
@@potternutmaniaspiritualizing mental health and brain health is questionable at best. The rewiring of the brain due to trauma is not solved by gurus.
@@KarmasAbutch I didn't say spiritualise mental health, I just said get the context and background for practices of meditation and yoga
Oh God, yes.. You always hear about meditating to lower your anxiety, but when you do so, it just feels so uncomfortable. All the thoughts you've been trying to block out by staying busy all the time, by using your phone until you pass out instead of falling asleep the normal way, by filling your life with empty busyness, all of it just stares at you and dares you to ignore it while it's pressing down on you.
Maybe because you're trying to suppress it instead of just letting it come and go. The more you push it down, the more pressure builds up. Then you try to do some form of meditation and it all just comes rushing at you at once as soon as you try to let your guard down.
There's so many ways to practice meditation that aren't just sit down and be quiet. It's sad to see it used so flippantly as some sort of "cure all" when there's so much nuance to it all. There's a healthy level of discomfort to it, but you also don't want to go outside your window of tolerance.
I will say one thing tho, meditation is uncomfortable and so is healing so you might just want to except that it will be uncomfortable until it suddenly becomes a little less uncomfortable lol
Im constantly zoning in and out of disassociation. If someone says something that upsets me, whoosh, there I go
I can’t imagine something so dysfunctional, that is awful.
I had never heard of dissociation until the last year or so. I’m 47 and the closest I can get to understanding is getting kind of caught up in a novel while I read, someone says my name and I’m pulled out of my imagination and back into reality. Otherwise I’m always here, right here and very present. I asked my brothers (56 and 60) and they said they also don’t experience that. My husband who was abused as a child has severe dissociation and describes it like you, he also suffers amnesia of up to 80% of his daily life, bad self thoughts and thinks his feelings are reality, has no inner voice, fractured self, etc. I didn’t understand any of that and it still sounds so strange. Sincerely, thank you mom and dad for being awesome!
@@jenilynneful I could have types the majority of your comment myself!
😅whoosh there i go too bru😊
8:10 I remember being forced to do mindfulness exercises as a teen, in group therapy. I never got through a single one, i would just start crying. With a history of trauma, mindfulness is still very important, but has to be achieved veeery slowly.
CPTSD:
Dissociation.
Nigtmares. Reliving traumatic experiences in dreams 3 to 4 times a week for around 40 years.
Ruminating.
ADHD:
Impulsivity. Distraction.
Cognitive issues and learning issues.
All these compounded with other symptoms.
One by one I figured what these meant to me and my past and worked to resolve them. Long journey.
Without nightmares now and regular sleep.
Without impulsivity I can actually make decisions.
This is very new to me in my 50s.
Better late than never.
Feels good to think and act while calm and having an order to thought processes.
I'm happy for your ongoing recovery. ❤
really? you got better?
I'm 40 and had decades of every symptom you listed. I'm ready to end it all. and now you're telling me there's hope??
I'm lost as to know what to do.
@@thunderpooch took my whole life. Therapy. Year after year.
Magic mushroom. Hero dose. Under supervision. And the Doctor knew. Very carefully thought through.
Lots of supportive peers.
Studied about therapy too.
@randymulder9105 awesome! glad you made it to the other side and had some breakthroughs 🙂
i guess I'll keep at it
@@thunderpooch keep in touch.
Study as form of meditation and finding yourself in the labels of CPTSD and all these other labels. Slowly finding what nuances describe you, your behaviour, your interactions with others, yourself, sleep habits, eating habits....and start to try and change some of those things:
When I mean change things. Look carefully at your labels. How you have been labeled. Then look for what symptoms describe you and what you should tackle.
Begin researching solutions people have already used to try and tackle the symptoms. Eventually you may be able to change some things that would affect the symptoms positively. Maybe a symptom or symptoms can be slowly diminished, or maybe they will become less intense or long lasting. .
Tackling symptoms would be to look for "coping mechanisms and strategies" that can help alleviate any symptoms that are scary, tough, emotionally heavy, and so on.
Begin looking at the labels used to describe you, look at the symptoms that describe you, and then research for "solutions".
Finding solutions may be through research in books, research papers online, and healthy internet information.
Also, depend on peers, family of possible, doctors, and therapists to assist you in your "journey".
The journey may be long but there is a silver lining, many silver linings.
Sliver linings may be small or inconsistent in the beginning. But with each step, change in your bahvlaviour and outlook etc. the silver lining becomes more apparent and you start to find it easier to see things differently....because some results are positive and you feel good for a moment. Relish in that good moment. Record the thoughts, how you came to be happy for a moment to have future reference to bahviour you can repeat to bring you back to joy. This can be a coping strategy or mechanism that you utilize to regain joy.
It's okay to relish in joy. Hold onto that joy keep it in memory to access the next day. Begin creating a positive feedback loop even if it means writing to a list on paper that you keep in your pocket to read to remind yourself that yes....some moments are nice.
Peace.
Workshops with mediation techniques are good. Health food stores are good. Taking a course in health or therapy works. And all this is too meet other with similar issues that have climbed out of their slumber or at least have a goal to make it out of this funk.
My sister witnessed my 3 1/2 year old brother choke on a carrot and die in 1967 when she was 11. She said that she remembers the day like it was yesterday, but she doesn’t have any memories of him before that day. It’s like the 3 1/2 years he was alive were completely wiped from her memory. She has no recollection of him during Birthdays, Hanukkah, or even just normal every day events. Back in 1967 therapy for traumatic events like that weren’t really a thing, especially when it came to kids.
I had to watch this multiple times because I disassociated, ironic
In 1998 I was told I had Dissociated Personality disorder. He also told me he could not help me. The only doctor at the time was in Miami, Flo.
I personally can say, he ruined my life! Today I am 67, alone with my mind, my crazy mind! I got enough help thru the internet and tomorrow I tune that off. My life has been as great and bad as any other life. No help, just a label and total abandonment from those who loved me and traumatized me.
God or I chose to be here to be labeled and abandoned, but you see I am human and we just survive, I have, you will too! No one has the answer!
Blessings dear ones, you are not as crazy as they think you are!
So sorry I see you and you matter, abandoned or not doesn’t matter you are loved ❤❤ I hope you get the peace you deserve
Hey, I’m 13 years old
I just wanted to say that I’m sorry for everything that you’ve been through
I’m glad that you’re finally getting help through the internet (just like me!)
Anyway have a nice day
Ps: English is my second language how did I do?
Stop using the internet. It might help
@@jessewhite5930 I can always count on a rude person who did not read. But, hey at 67 what do I need? I will tell you what I need, I owe you nothing! I did not use the Internet to save me, I saved myself! You should do the same! BTW, my Internet will be off tomorrow. The USA is truly a sickening nation.
@@Productions_WolfYou’re English is great!
As someone with who is neurodivergent and chronically ill. i have had chronic pain since i was a young kid, i can tell dissociation has saved my life, though also it suuucks.
I took a lot of psychedelics in my youth and ever since then I’ve had a greatly diminished sense of self and I disassociate often. I often feel more like a witness to the things that are happening to me instead of the person they’re happening to
I feel the same way. It happened after an overly intense trip that put me in hospital with chest pain that didnt go for months. Ever since then I'm like a shell of myself and i feel like im clinging onto my body but I just cant ever get inside it again truly.
I have PTSD. There are times I will have panic attacks, or derealize and depersonalize so bad that I will suddenly black out. I have suddenly become confused because I remember doing one thing and suddenly I'm now doing another thing (or if I was walking, I'm now farther along to where I was going) but I know there was something in between I just can't recall what. I know I was aware at the time it's like it was all erased suddenly (though one time it was like a snap). The gaps aren't huge. The most it's been is about a few minutes, which was caused by a panic attack, and the memory loss started about when the panic started. So I filled in blanks.
My memory used to be scarily good, but PTSD destroyed that and I can never seem to recall my own day. It also took my ability to imagine things in my head from a 10/10 to a 5 on a good day. The only time it's a 10 is when I'm having flashbacks. It sucks too because I like to use music as an escape, and daydream about "my world" and all my characters, and what stories the songs tell for it. But it's harder when my ability to imagine things is impaired. I used to always see things in my head as well, but now it's strictly on command unless it's intrusive memories or flashbacks. It could be my brain trying to "unsee" things.
I have been in a constant dissociation since 2019. It hasn’t gone away for one moment. Therapists don’t believe me, saying it’s impossible. I feel so unheard. I can’t find anything online about people with similar experiences. I feel like I will never be understood and will never heal. I want to be real again
Ooh, this is very interesting, I've never heard that mindfulness could be dangerous for some trauma processing. Makes so much sense!
I agree -- years with paid therapists never explained this, but he just did!
It doesn't help when you are being asked what you did to someone to make them abuse you.
So glad I found this. My therapist has suggested "mindfulness" so many times for my dissociation. Every time I'd try, it'd worsen my fugue state, I'd get so panicked I was aware that I was dissociating and feeling my body... which felt foreign to me. I stopped using mindfulness and started allowing it to just run its course... and with that the experience has shortened.
@@sr2291a therapist asked that? whoa ok. they are in the wrong field. that is not mindfulness
@@chinmeysway It is part of the Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) training.
When I have an experience of depersonalization-derealization, it actually makes me panic because it's like an out-of-body experience, and it only ever seems to happen when I'm driving, which is scary! I feel like I could possibly crash my car because of it!
For 10 years I lived at the top of a mountain. Relatives were afraid to visit because the road was winding and poorly matked.
Yet, I would often get home in a hypnotic state, with no idea of how I got home.
Dissociation has been such a lifeline for so long. It caused a car accident late in the year so I finally got the diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. It's been a long road
Holy shit, a DPDR mention! It's borderline impossible to find anyone who even knows what it is. I've had to explain it to every therapist and psychiatrist I've ever had and found virtually no resources online about it. I was stuck in DPDR for over *ten years* and only recently realized I am back in reality. I didn't notice when it happened.
i spent the better part of the last 20 years in severe dissociation. to be able to feel myself alive in the world at this point is the weirdest thing you can imagine after so long cutoff from feeling my body. conscious breathing is what brought my mind out of this insanity.
@@christopherpederson1021 I think what did it, for me, was when I found myself so financially well-off that I could afford nice things for fun without having to worry. For the first time in my life, I didn't feel even a little depressed. I didn't know I could be so happy. I assume that's when my DPDR cleared, since I was finally safe.
You didn’t cover all of the types of dissociation, and focused mostly on amnesia and different identity states. There is also identity confusion, fugues, depersonalisation and derealisation. I agree that meditation can be problematic but there are mindfulness skills that I find very helpful, like noticing my emotions come up and learning not to judge them. It took a lot of practice because our meta emotions (feelings about our feelings) are stored in the amygdala along with our trauma stories. Therefore understanding the purpose of emotions, being curious about what they are trying to tell me without judging them, has been very helpful. Essentially it has enabled me to reframe my emotions from the story my abusers/trauma gave me to a more compassionate self understanding.
exactly ! mindfulness helped me a lot. i used to be a lot dissociated ( and it was not only amnesia, etc.. it could be depersonalisation and anesthezia (no emotions at all) also... Mindfullness e helped me to not overthink, first and to learn to connect with my emotions without be afraid of them... i couldn't do this this work whitout mindfulness...
yes, it is not always easy (it's a bit like if you stop to take drugs against pain... it hurts ), but now, i can be more comprehensive and compassionate too with me ( and the others ! )
The other skills, makes me think of Affect Regulation / inner-subjective. Naming the emotions to identify and put them into perspective so as not to be overwhelmed by them? That "re-framing?" I think it's very useful.
He actually did mention depersonalisation and derealisation. Emotions is one thing but trauma is stored in the body, in physiological reactions too, and when your mind is doign a good job being dissociated and protecting you from painful experiences that haven't been integrated yet, getting in touch with your body through mindfulness can make things worse, flood and overwhelm the system and in some cases induce psychosis.
It's funny that "depersonalization" and "derealization" are considered pathological by psychologists, while they have been considered the pinnacle of wisdom by philosophers for thousands of years.
@@MrCmon113 are you referring to the ability to look at life without emotion? Because it’s not desirable to have no emotion at all, our intuition relies upon us having values and preferences for what is good for us, avoiding what is bad for us. These action systems are fragmented or disrupted with dissociation. It is well known that dissociative disorders are traumagenic and therefore grooming is likely to have occurred. If so you have cohorts of people who can’t tell what they need, they become vulnerable to unscrupulous people and have no internal ‘alarms’ that they are in danger. It has just become ‘normal’. Of course it is a spectrum, but those who live with chronic depersonalisation can present this way. Lastly it is only ‘pathologised’ when it starts to interfere with daily life functioning as most of the population will dissociate at some point.
One time, I was having a very difficult conversation with someone and the visual of the world turned into a negative, like a film negative, and I came back to with zero recollection of the whole conversation and had to bs my way through.... I was scared out of my mind. Then I forgot the whole thing until just now
It's a bit sad but also oddly relieving in a way when i hear about symptoms i have being linked together to a mental disorder i am already diagnosed with. Because on one hand, it's sad that the symptoms i feel are actually connected to a bigger, overarching problem in my life. For example, sleep problems, daytime sleepiness, memory problems being linked to dissociation (i have two diagnosed dissociative disorders [did and dpdr]). On the other hand, it's nice to know that there is research being done on people like me and that there is hope for treatment and getting better.
As someone with DID (dissociative identity disorder) dissociation is my long time detested friend and enemy
on one end it protects me from the worst of my trauma and experiences
On the other end it makes me almost completely inoperable if something happens and I begin to blur
I am glad I have friends in my head I guess ?
*thank you* SO much for noting "mindfulness" isn't necessarily always the end-all, be-all & can even be dangerous for some ~ also loved your framing of the dsm 🤣
Numb in 3rd person sometimes gives a few moments to gather up the peaces of the moment and find a safe route through.
The fear is the worst.. u become used to it.. you just want to feel like you can be yourself but you can't lol, it's awful.
Exactly me
Me too@@7178dw
I’ve only had brief moments of depersonalization and they were rather terrifying, to feel like you’ve forgotten who you even are, that you don’t have a self. More common for me during extreme bouts of panic disorder was derealization which is also very uncomfortable as everything didn’t feel real, like I was trapped in a dream I couldn’t wake up from.
There's people, who spend their entire lives meditating and fasting in isolation to get to a state that you consider pathological.
There is no self. Biologically, neurologically, physically, philosophically, logically or phenomenologically the self is nonsense. And you have climpsed the luminous nature of mind free from separateness and confinement.
I come from a home of violence sexual abuse verbal abuse alcoholism incest the works
As far back as I can remember I’ve always disassociated into my own world that I created n would spend hours in my head so to speak
Im 62 now n I had a conversation w a man who was always part of my “world” of disassociation n as I was talking to him something snapped in my mind n brought me to reality that he wasn’t the man in my “world” of disassociation
I was shattered to reality n realized I had to stop what I was doing
Like many of us when under stress etc the need to “escape” was always disassociate, slide into that safe place
After that interaction I decided that it has served a purpose for decades n I wanted to stop n try other coping techniques
Im now living in a domestic violent “marriage” n the urges to disassociate are strong but I fight it
Im getting excellent professional help n trying to find a safe way to leave this narcissist im unfortunately married to
Well, i am with you all. Been there done that. But don't be afraid to Learn how to Zone Out, or Discassosiate. Me, I Astral travel down the road to the bar. For me, all my life...now 55...I don't fight it. I have learned that I can Astral Travel, use it to Go Somewhere Safe when i need to. Get a beer or a pop & go back ...all while sitting at a kitchen table, or my couch and never physically leaving. You can too. Don't be afraid, your body, your mind gave this security protection to you to keep you safe when needed. God bless.
I learned to disassociate very early on in my life. I suffered mental illness all my life. Meditation, medication and therapy from 1985-2017 helped me to function better in life. I have been doing therapy now since 2020, to help me function and cope. In 2020 my adult son, who I thought I had a loving relationship with exploded, I heard things I had never been told by him. I listened and had to especially re-examine my adult life and also what kind of mother I had been. He was right, my reality was not the same as others (whose really ever is the same?) and the disassociation and rose colored glasses is how Ihave coped in what I NOW acknowledge as a hellish life. But even now I try not to hold grudges,I forgive(I think) and do not cause pain because I have pains. But I need help coping with my continued hellish life, just saying. I enjoyed your video thank you 😊
Watching your video changed my life. Thank you so much for what you do.
Great vid! I like the way you deliver so calmly without sounding disinterested
I have struggled with dissociation ever since a traumatic job loss a couple of years ago. I had to move back into a very triggering living situation and ended up dissociating that entire year away. Now I find it Very difficult to climb out of a dissociative funk when I get in one. I have to agree that practices like meditation have not worked for me, but physical stimulations like yoga, long walks, and deeply massaging my head, neck and shoulders always really helps myself become more present in my body.
Very informative! Also your tone and voice is perfect for this.
Thank you for explaining this so well! I've been struggling with dissociative symptoms for years due to my trauma and therapists struggled to figure out what it was. I feel seen here!
very interesting, i'll have to listen a few time to get it all sink in. thank you for these precious gems of wisdom.
This was incredibly reaffirming for me. It hit all the bases of what I’ve been struggling with.
I so appreciate you and your dad! It’s such a healing experience listening to two men share experiences with knowledge with such warmth and openness. 💜🙏
Im in the middle of trauma therapy and trying to find out if I have DID. This video made me understand why mindfulness and meditation always gave me even more anxiety instead of taking it away. Thank you so much for making this clear! 💜🙏🏼
Dissociation Identity Disorder is very rare, I’m hoping if you do that you can find someone who can treat you well. Have you any evidence of alters? Good luck!
Good luck on your journey!!
@@basicallyno1722it's honestly not that rare. If you look up a couple of studies on it, i think the prevalence rate is between 0.5% and 2%? About the same as redheads.
It's better to practice mindfulness before something mortifying happens. Otherwise it's kind of like trying to learn to stitch a parachute in freefall.
@@MrCmon113Mindfulness can be triggering for people who have experienced what the OP has, as in it genuinely won't help. What do you mean by something mortifying exactly?
I've fallen asleep to this video around 4 times already. Maybe the fifth time is the charm and i'll get to watch it from start to finish
I didn't recognize who I was in the mirror over a period of time, I saw my face and it didn't change, but it was like I was looking at someone else, it was very creepy and scary
This happens to me a lot, it felt like I was a visitor in my own body
that’s called aging and not looking very often? or that’s me at least i don’t care to look much
@@chinmeysway that's not what OP is describing. I don't have OP's issue so don't see my 'ageing' face as a stranger looking back at me - even though I actually rarely look in the mirror (by 'ageing' I mean I'm nearly 41, still look relatively young but my looks have definitely changed as I've got older - not a boast about how young I look, just that my looks haven't changed so dramatically I no longer recognise myself).
Yes. Been there. I felt like an alien in my body.
This is how my friend felt before they learned they have DID
I’m in this state right now, clinical diagnoses with no fix,
Permanent Tinnitus, chronic back pain, permanent Diplopia.
My brain has just rejected anything complex or requiring thought.
It’s horrible, feeling numb, but better than feeling useless,
different, affected.
Thank you, Forrest! I love your podcast and have been following Rick for many years. Your balanced view of the difficulties of starting a mindfulness practice are so important. I've been meditating for many years now, but those first few years were fraught with unprocessed pain and self-loathing that definitely needed more support than I had. I hope everyone who has unresolved trauma can find support to move into healthy self-referral and ultimate freedom. Your books and resources are a great start.
Thank you Paula, I really appreciate it.
Lots of Good Wisdoms in you, Thank you!
During a phone conversation, the worst woman I was ever involved with hit me with her coup de grâce (she was bedding another man), and the way she delivered the blow was calculated and vicious. I recoiled and hung up. An unbearable pain engulfed me, followed by a feeling of uncontrollable disintegration, but then I said to myself with cold intensity, "I'm not going to let her do this to me." The pain ceased, replaced by numbness, and I thought it was a moment of personal power and self-control, mind over emotion. Many years later, however, I realize the victory came at a high price. I was and remain scarred by that desperate dissociation.
When I reached my teens, my therapist said something with an unforeseen effect. She asked me to remember all the times I had panic and anxiety attacks and think how the worst thing possivle didn't happened in any of those times. Later, without realising, I started horribly misusing this method for every single form of discomfort, and I rarely felt confortable. Just thinking, when I wake up I can just skip to when I go to sleep again. Eventually, I skipped two years I will not get back
Very relatable.
I don’t know if this is dissociation, but after going through some traumatic experiences or dealing with painful things, sometimes I fall into a state where everything around me feels surreal and uncanny. Like as if I’m in in the upside down. I’ll catch myself staring at things because these normal things suddenly seem strange and I feel lost, scared or sometimes completely numb. Sometimes it feels like I’m in a movie or a show and nothing I’m seeing or experiencing is real.
The scariest thing was having a brief out of body experience while in a awful and stressful situation. I felt my soul or whatever it is that makes me, ME leave. I floated above my body for a few moments and then started to slowly come back down.
I liked your belief that mindfulness is not the "end all and be all" for every situation. It is a good tool for some things but not all.
Just as mindfulness isn't a blanket for every situation, it's also the case that blanket-dismissing mindfulness is equally unhelpful. Let's consider an analogy:
If you cut your arm on a machine at work, it may be more comfortable in the moment to look away from the cut, with all it's associated physical gore. However, if you never return to give it the attention it needs, that cut likely will become infected and later cause much more harm and suffering than if it had been tended to in the moment.
As a coping mechanism, dissociation has an understandable role. However, it's important to realize that humans aren't best served when coping mechanisms become the bulk of our life. So, while it's likely true that barging in on a life that's perpetually in a state of 'survival mode', where most (or even all) discomfort is 'coped with' by dissociating, over time this also creates more problems than it solves.
I believe that the correct understanding, and course of action, is to take small steps towards living life less dissociatively and more mindfully. It's a process, not a steady-state. If the process is slow because it's comprised of many small steps, that's ok. Any progress is likely to be better than no progress.
Sure if you want to build a rocket to send to proxima centauri, you need something more.
But as for all of those mental afflictions that you guys imagine, you just keep piling on problems that this imaginary character, the self, has. It's as if you treated someone with nightmares and all of your concern is how to fight and confine the monsters in the dream, rather than waking up.
Over the last 20 years I've observed a slow systematic progression toward de-sensitization. This is global. Another word for disassociation is "shock." The DSM, although a useful tool for explaining a behavior, is simply a billing reference guide for insurance providers. I have witnessed many psychologists and psychiatrists switch diagnoses using the DSM in order to get paid because insurance companies often change their approach to covering a treatment by the underwriter- a "desk doctor" who will deny a claim. Hence, the psychologist will change the diagnosis to one that will fit the formulary payable by the provider. From 9/11 attacks to wars, from system authority abuse to disease & deceit, people are turning to "distraction delivery devices" to cope with their ongoing shock that unconsciously motivates many to "check out." I wouldn't say that cognitive dissonance is the new normal, but the divisiveness, be it political or biological has provoked a never ending internal schism in dire need of repair. We react. It appears that we are becoming less reactive, not necessarily accepting, but less reactive to the impact the environment has on us and the impact we have on the rest of the world.
Yes thank you for saying this about mindfulness and dissociation! I didn't realise until I went to trauma therapy that I was making myself worse with 15+ years of mindfulness and other alternative "healing" techniques that were basically flooding my system with subconscious material. This message doesn't get out enough. This video just popped up on my feed!
Mindfulness is alternative to what exactly?
Imagine you're going to a doctor to help you with your nightmares and he suggests all kinds of complicated ways of containing and fighting the monsters in the nightmare. Mindfulness is simply the practice of waking up. It's not an alternative to anything, it undermines the entire logic upon which your apparent problems are built.
@@MrCmon113 Pontification.
Wow, this is insane to me. I hadnt really thought hard about it until this video, but a few years back i would dissociate strongly, and often. Thinking back that was certainly a point of trauma, having seen my grandfather pass away suddenly, the isolation of covid, struggles with identity, and a list thay goes on more than i can say. I would go through entire days having to force myself to be present in the moment, and even then i wouldnt feel like i was totally there. I felt like i didnt know who i was and like i was just on autopilot, and i would often get anxiety attacks because i couldnt remember what i had done the past two days, and id have to recount everything that happened in those days to myself to keep from having a breakdown. Often times music was the only thing that made me feel comfortable on the earth. The dissociation stopped when i found my identity and moved on from the things I struggled with.
I never really realized this until now, but it all makes sense.
Me to a T.
I always thought I was like a Vietnam Veteran. I was unconsciously telling others and myself I have CPTSD. We finally woke up and said .... Oh...right...we have been saying this all along. Finally clued in.
Life is full of surprises.
I have spent the last 5 years or so trying to stay alert and in the present.
Wow.
May I ask if you are a system? I hope you’ve been able to find answers and appropriate support 🪴
@@lilmissjoodypoody I believe they are human
@@TheOfficialOriginalChad systems are human. It’s what I believe some people with DID prefers to be referred to as opposed to an “individual”.
You have a wonderful communication style ans a very balanced viewpoint, Thank you so much for this explanation, I learned something today.❤
I appreciate your sharing of perspective.
I disassociated during the second half my relationship, slowly throughout my depression. I felt like nothing. Like I couldn't be enough for the one I love most. I handled everything in all of the worst ways, and it cost me my relationship. If only I'd come out of it before things got so bad. Be mindful of yourself, but cut yourself slack as well. People make mistakes, but learn from them. Always work to do better, for yourself, so you may one day be the best version of you for someone else.
Delighted! Thank you.
Great video and presentation (:
When I had Covid and trapped in my apartment for two weeks, not meeting anybody, sleeping in the day a lot, I woke up one afternoon in the dark with a very weird feeling. Like reality wasn’t really real or something, like I could be still sleeping. I knew reality was real, but I didn’t feel like reality was 100% real, it felt like 70% real. This went in for several days. It was eerie and uncanny. At the end of the first day back at work I was back to normal.
Thank you. It really helped.
It really helped thank you for making this video ......
I needed this thank you 🙏
I refer to what I experience as dissociation because I don't really know what else to call it, especially after this video,,, I kind of refer to myself in 2 parts now, there's my true conciousness that is only awake for about 5 seconds per month, who is the version of me I think I was born as, and then there's the construct who I exist as on a day to day basis, and who is typing this. I've learned to streamline myself into being a functional and effective person without the help of my true conciousness actually being present or aware of what's really happening. Days are a blur and memory, interests and thoughts don't really last outside of my initial synthesis of them. I've been in this state of existing as the construct for at least a decade with only minor breakthroughs of actually experiencing my life and realising that I exist and can think and feel. by the time I remember I'm a person, the feeling is gone,,,
I am 55, and childhood repressed memories have been coming back to me. 1st in my dreams. Then during the day. And all my life i could be sitting at someones kitchen table, having a conversation and travel up the street to the bar. And come back. I can astrel travel or i guess i disassociate?? My friend was talking to me and next thing i know she is asking me...Amy, where did you just go?? I said well, i went up to the bar. And i started laughing. She was shocked.
This is all new to me, this information here. ive been like this all my life. Now that i am connecting the dots...Im not sure i like this. Not safe!!!
SSRI + Lamictal helps with my Derealization disorder so much.
Microdosing psylocibin has helped me a lot with dissociation
Im tier 3, i also have CPTSD. This video makes me feel better to see so many others also having these problems. 😢
I was diagnosed with cptsd and After going through rigorous treatment in therapy and with medication for 2 years i have finally stopped dissociating after 5 years. I havent dissociated in about 6 months and i can finally take control of my life again. I couldn't look at myself in the morror because I did recognize myself. it's like i can finally breathe again. Treatment takes a LONG time and its discouraging in the moment but the outcome is worth the wait.
I wonder about the history of dissociation of living creatures. As in how did it evolve throughout our human history but also how does it look like in the rest of the animal kingdom. How did it look like before our current concept of it.
You speak of how plumbing the depths of trauma isn't always the wise course. I have come to understand and believe that I did have certain unremembered experiences. While I am still coping with the damage, I see no reason to relive the memories. My child self put them away with great effort and I should trust this was for the best. It is like those time travel mind-wipe loops in sci fi where the protagonist keeps trying to find out what they missed, goes back and experiences it, then decides to wipe his own memory. Only to wake up and go in search of the missing memory again.
I had a rly traumatizing year last year, and I finally saw my friend this week - who I haven't seen since July - and I ended up meeting her at least 4 times in the same visit. I don't remember all of it at once. My sense of self was rly disparate when there wasn't a task I had to do, or I might completely forget what I was doing when her phone call ended. I don't know how to relax that
good content, thanks - and the warning that delving into mindfulness can be tricky and even dysregulating when one has PTSD is really helpful - but by the end of your video I was left with some good information but no path forward for healing dissociation when it is the result of trauma - I was hoping for that, looking for that - so that someone with PTSD can eventually and ultimately heal and be able practice mindfulness in a safe and productive way -
Hey, maybe NEI (Neuro-Emotionnal-Intégration) might help... or maybe EFT? (this one I know less). But NEI basically is a alternative therapy where you heal effects of traume stocked in your body, so without actually going back to the events, but just cleaning up cell-memory. It kind of takes away the triggers stocked in your body.
Hi Michelle, Forrest’s videos are usually longer and goes into more depth than this one, which I guess is more of an explainer. If you haven’t yet, I’d highly recommend checking out his other videos and interviews (I sort them by popularity and start there). I have cPTSD and a high dissociative tendency (though it’s not visually obvious coz I also have Aphantasia) but what helps me may not help you since healing is such an individual journey. Eg I tried EMDR which helps a lot of people and don’t require you to regurgitate details of the trauma (though helps if you can picture it or connect to it emotionally), but it didn’t work for me coz of the Aphantasia (I can’t picture stuff in my head). If you find an EMDR practitioner who specialises in dissociation (it’s a specialty within EMDR and need to be approached with care) then it has helped a lot of people and has been scientifically proven to be very effective (I think more so than medication for trauma).
I am trying Internal Family Systems with some success (seeing progress/improvements) and it’s worked for people with DID too. Somatic practices based on gaining awareness of my body sensations has also been eye opening. But nothing’s been a panacea or “oh this is what’s going to cure me if I stick with it” so far. At first that’s very frustrating for me, because I’ve seen how some people get huge transformations from one modality, but the more I learn the more I realise that I can take what resonated and helped from different modalities and although a bit hodgepodge, I am seeing real healing and growth for the first time in almost 40 years. Included in that is learning self compassion, improving basic daily self care practices (sleep, diet, movement, social connection, need for mastery/accomplishment, getting diagnosed and making environmental and mental adjustments to accommodate for my ASD and ADHD, learning about burnout (esp as a woman in a cis-hetero relationship) and how to set healthy boundaries for myself, reintegrating the young and protective parts of myself I’ve rejected due to perceived weakness for so long (through IFS), learning about dialectic/duality from Dialectic Behavioural Therapy - DBT), challenging validity and helpfulness of thoughts instead of accepting them as fact/me through cognitive reframing techniques from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), increasing my curiosity and becoming more aware/conscious of my thoughts and default behaviours… and allowing myself time each day to ‘tap out’ (which can look like dissociation or even having a sensory escape for me - noise cancelling headphones on while I garden and not get disturbed especially when I’m really dysregulated)… sorry it’s a long reply to your comment but I’m hoping maybe something in this list might spark an idea that you can look into.
I also find YT channels “Patrick Teahan - LFsomething-a-bunch-of-letters” and “Healthy Gamer GG” to have been quite helpful for understanding and getting practical advice for different aspects of my experience and struggle. And as with everything - I’ve learned to be hungry for knowledge but don’t automatically accept it as wisdom - I allow myself to evaluate everything with curiosity and trust that my inner wisdom will know if it’s something for me or not in that moment (there are approaches that only started helping me years after I tried it the first time - sometimes we just aren’t ready or in the right time/space for something to work, so it’s ok if it’s doesn’t work now but can also be good to revisit at a different point in our journey), and to practice self compassion if something doesn’t work (it’s just not for me, right now, and that’s ok, it’s not for everyone).
I really hope you’re able to find something that helps, soon. I understand how frustrating it can be to want help but not know who or what will help. 🪴
I had to watch 3 times 😅 because I was dissociating. this video was helpful overall and your voice was pleasant to listen to. here to finding our way.
Thank you for this video. Someone I care about told me about this disorder so this helps me understand more.
Thank you❤❤
So well said thank you for this…. It makes so much sense
Gonna have to watch this again. I tuned out. 🥺🙄
I had experienced my first time dissociating last week and it was scary but I understand why it had happened
Thank you 🙂
The first 13 years of my life is a blur of mostly happy memories. Then when I turned 14. I started feeling like I could express myself. Than my parents decided to take me with them and travel the country and homeschool me. My worst childhood fear has destroyed my ability to share my needs to others and while I moved into the RV with my elderly parents. Also my parents never homeschooled once to teach me anything. It becomes my worst fear relieving constantly. I was so disassociated and numb that I don't really remember anything from that whole year. Besides the trauma of the experience. Honestly I feel like that trauma feeds my childhood PTSD causing me to constantly be in my head numb.
I "clock out" by getting sleepy and numb, and it was good growing up when my parents belittled or yelled at me. Kept things from escalating. Nowadays as a young adult, it has been a precursor to su*cide attempts because reality doesn't feel "real" anymore. Def. a personal experience, sometimes good or bad depending on many things.
My parents divorced when I was 6/7 years old but before that happened, my mom ran off to Del Valle, Tx with me while we were living in Germany and my Dad was on TDY (Temporary Duty Station for the non-military folks, Dad was in the Air Force, basically you get shipped off elsewhere to do more military training/drills for 2-3 weeks at a time). After Dad was newly stationed in New Mexico, he came to Texas to get me as it had been a year or a little longer since we'd seen each other. Apparently instead of going through the courts, my parents gave me the choice of who to live with and I said Daddy because I hadn't seen him for awhile. I don't remember any of it and have never been able to get a straight answer about what happened. I remember being in Texas and then bam! I'm in New Mexico. I can't even really say how much time was yeeted from my memory. I have looked into doing hypnosis and I need to do it soon as it bothers me especially since my Dad recently passed away. The little that I have pieced together is my mom went nuts when I chose my Dad and she destroyed everything associated with me, just not sure if she did that in front of me or after I left. But yeah, it's bugged me all my life that I can't remember that block of time.
When my depression was at it's worst, I was finding myself 'waking up' all the time. Especially at work... Walmart with it's bright ass lights were suddenly dimmer to my view and I would go through a lot of work with no real memory of doing it
Dissociation is a tool that allows us to adapt and survive in difficult and painful circumstances without destroying our soul.
Our heart/mind is our instrument of perception and with our emotional response, we agree or disagree with our current "Now.
A child, I believe, at very young age, begins to decide things like: I want to be more like my mother and less like my father or more like my father and less like my mother. or whatever or whoever are the major influences in their experience of their "Now").
They are "choosing" a version of their self as a separate person which will change many times as they age.
We set our associative boundaries at a young age also. I believe between the age of 7 and 11. From there our life depends on the "character" of the person choosing. Our character becomes our life. We are either concretized in a certain way, or there's flexibility and there's growth.
All I know is that ever since I’ve been hellaciously depressed I feel like my vision zooms out to a fish eye type view when I’m driving quietly by myself, even once I realize it it doesn’t go away
I can't remember most of my childhood, and I even can't remember what I did last week, or sometimes even yesterday. And I frequently lose my train of thought while talking to people. Anomia all the time. Nightmares every night. Falling asleep frequently throughout the day if I don't take my Ritalin.
I really appreciate your point about mindfulness and meditation. I would like you to suggest alternatives.
Didn't expect to hear Narcolepsy mentioned, though I've long thought that for me it's very much related to trauma. I feel like I spend a majority of my time dissociated, and have a lot of difficulty connecting with my own past. It was helpful for a while, but now it's really messing with my sense of self
i got diagnosed with DDD today, i didnt expect to already be getting reccomended stuff about it lol
it was today but it feels like yesterday, it feels almost like sleeping in the way it separates events
I used to experience depersonalization-derealization a lot and a combination of mindfulness and physical grounding has reduced this significantly... I was disassociating when I thought I'd done something wrong--any ego challenges (you know, proof I was screwing up somehow even when I wasn't)--, and I'd feel stuck there for hours and it would feel scary like I'd never come out of it. Often, I wouldn't recover until I went to sleep and woke up feeling like myself. I also frequently experienced it at other times, but at these times, I really needed my wits about me.
I was in therapy for hypnosis thinking that might help with calming my body (believing that perhaps hypersensitive reactions to chemicals like regular house paint could be subdued via hypnosis as if my body had picked up a false notion) and like the 3 things listed about mindfulness, it turns out I couldn't handle hypnosis at the time and so I was simply wrapping up my time with that psychologist talking about why that was too hard for me (significant childhood trauma) when I told her about my ongoing disassociation problems. I'd already been using mindfulness for years as I'd done Hatha Yoga years before and learned about deep breathing and such. This therapist then told me about various techniques I could use when I felt myself slipping away to ground myself in my body. That--the combination--was something I needed because facing what I needed to face (more that half the time it was nothing except fear of screwing up) was actually less scary than feeling stuck in depersonalisation and feeling like I would never come out.
I think I had a moderate level of dissociation at my last job.
I was working in customer support, replying to emails. Once every 3 months or so there would be this partnership launch that would cause the support to become completely flooded with tickets because it wasn't usually available in my area so people had endless problems because they still tried despite it not working. You would receive tickets faster than you could reply to them. You could keep going for 4 straight hours and have more tickets than when you started.
How did I cope? Well... I went on complete auto pilot and dissociated. I emotionally removed myself completely from the situation and just kept replying to tickets for hours on end. I was snapped out of it when my phone alerted me that my shift had ended and after closing down everything I realized I could not remember the contents of a single ticket I had answered in those 4 hours and I could not find it in myself to care one bit about it.
I quit my job not long after. No way in hell was I subjecting myself to that again.
Sounds like this could explain why almost all of my memories are positive, or rather why i don't feel any emotions when im remembering memories about bad things that have happened in my life.
Which kinda sounds like a good thing at first, until you realize, that thats the reason you always think the past was better than the present.
Because in my mind it is.
My therapist was pushing mindfulness. It seemed more like mindlessness to me, and an excuse to fall asleep (I have chronic fatigue). The apps she suggested I try were stressful to me. It apparently works for other people but we're all different and the stress was not my idea of a good time.
Music is about the only thing that can bring me back. It’s the only thing that feels safe. I wish I could be fully present in my life all the time but I don’t know how, or even if I could survive it.
I'm glad you found this for you to reconnect! It's a great tool for me, too. Look out for further more that feels not threatening to you.
Thank you for the video. Very structured and informative. I can’t remember my childhood, have a huuuge gaps, and my adult life as well. It feels like I am not living but passively existing. I guess I have dissociative amnesia, but probably smth else. Can you point out on how is it treated?
For me, I was able to create persist safe, healthy and grounding conditions that over time made my brain learn to use dissociation less and less.
Conditions means - safe friends/partner/hobbies and using grounding techniques when dissociation and fear seemed to raise
‘Not living but passively existing’ is such a powerful way to say it. One of my main issues is finding words to convey internal experiences/thoughts/feelings