I would seriously consider n gauge, as you like continuous long rakes and n is ideal for that, and you can get a lovely long realistic track plan. It is also very rewarding to model though fiddly. I gave up on OO a while back as I like to model long locations and there were so many compromises on OO that made it untenable. N sound dcc is not too bad, I have good sound from my 68. Also the locos in general are relatively cheap on Ebay now around £100 for a loco. Dapol and farish do though take an age from announcement to release in n which can be fustrating. Probably a big move for you though so could understand you sticking with OO. I would also recommend modeling a location you like I think you mentioned one, then amending to fit, it stops flights of fancy cheers.
Good to hear you don't need to move. Saves a lot of packing. Option 6 keep OO gauge and build N gauge above it. Which will give you access to do the wiring for N gauge and place lights on the underside to light up the OO. This will let you have plenty of space for full rake trains. As it a smaller gauge the eye line will make it look similar in size to the OO gauge your used too. Hope this helps. Stay safe.
N gauge all the way, my whole layout is Unitrack so far and is exceptionally reliable. Your point about stock availability/selling out is very valid but I see that in my OO dabbling too, I miss out on loads purely because retail isn't designed to keep things on the shelf anymore. But Didcot is an awesome idea!
Hi Dave, great to hear you can progress your layout plans again. I have watched your video with interest and the options are all quite valid. As an N gauge modeller I model BR transition Western Region. This satisfies my love of the diesel hydraulics, end of WR steam and allows a few BR Green diesel interlopers!! I run DCC sound too. Positives for me are: ability to run scale length trains, incredibly detailed N gauge stock now available for my chosen area, the ability to create scenic vistas and allow trains to run through the scenery. I enjoy the detail and overall impact of N. I agree with your comments on sound re cacophony of noise! It is not necessary to have all locos sound-fitted! You know what you love and N is a great scale, but it depends on what is the most important for you.
Greetings Dave, as an N Gauger I must confess a bias 😲 but in this case only you will know what will give you the most satisfying result 🤔 For me, N Gauge is more about modelling a location with trains running through it and OO and O are more suited to show casing the train models themselves 🤔 So long rakes and sweeping curves - N Gauge, TMD and finely detailed models - OO Gauge , trying for both might not be good for you sanity, unless you have two layouts 😱 Best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️
Very interesting, I have dog bone with lower storage accessed via a 4 track helix (60 metres track) then a long run and turnaround. If you plan the helix you wont have an issue, I cant ever remember a derailment with 9-10 coach trains even in reverse. N gauge has improved out of sight, I have about a 4-5 minute circuit and still growing, I have class 108 with factory sound and it's great. When i designed my layout I wanted the trains to go somewhere and then come back as opposed to going round and round, With the space you have and If you want scale length trains and huge runs N gauge is ideal. I think once you have decided on what gauge if it is N gauge I would start with a blank sheet of paper and really think what you want, i got many ideas from fellow you tube channels. I have built my layout in modules so at some point can be disassembled, for one person it's big and I have been on it 10 years but love building it and sharing my progress. I think oo/ ho is great but i wanted the longer runs through country side and town etc and i would have needed 40+ feet long room not 20 ft which i have. All the best
Having gone, through diferent circumstances, from one layout to a new one in a similar size / location, it's been interesting to observe how much of the design, imagination, come from an instinct that seems to be repeated in a new layout, even if the canvas is blank. There were things I liked in the first layout, so I did them again. There were things I didn't like too, though, and I made sure I avoided them. But, in my experience, you can never have enough space. Especially with oo gauge. Build a shed for the storage, then extend through and knock the wall down. Then empty your new shed and extend into that too. Then the garden. And if that's not enough, evict your family and extend into your house.
For me, keeping the current layout is a strong option. I think it's very well balanced between the urban and rural scenes, and both are well modelled. But the fact that you've made this video suggests that you're not really happy with it, so probably won't be motivated to stick with it for long. I wouldn't touch 2 with a bargepole. A helix is very high-risk and putting it out of sight is only going to make things worse. Even if the helix works, a derailment at the back of the low level fiddle yard will be a nightmare to deal with, and to be honest it doesn't sound like it would offer a huge improvement even if everything goes to plan. 3 is certainly worth considering if you now have a better idea of what you want from a layout than when you started, as is 4. When I first saw 'Didnot' I thought it was way too much for one person to operate, but now that I look at it I think it might be manageable. You could either set trains running through Platforms 1 and 2 using the fast lines and route to Swindon, while operating 3, 4, 5, the yard, and the avoiding lines uding the slow lines to Paddington and route to Oxford (or vice-versa). And you could start by just laying the fasts and the Swindon lines (with the necessary pointwork in place) so that you can get trains running before you build the rest of the layout, which might stop you losing interest before you get off the ground. As big, crazy ideas go, this one is actually not that ridiculous, and if you think you can deliver on it and be satisfied by it then I would say go for it. I would try to spend as much time as possible familiarising yourself with N before committing to a change of scale, both from an aesthetic and practical perspective. Do you mind that the trains (about 1/8th of the volume of 00) have less 'presence'? Are you happy with the lower level of detail visible in N? Are you confident that your eyesight is (and will remain) good enough both to work in and appreciate the smaller scale? Are your hands steady and precise enough to make buildings and rerail stock in N? Are you happy with the fact that shunting is (unless I've been misinformed) much more difficult in N? If any of these questions cause serious doubt, I would think very carefully about whether changing scale is the best course of action, as they could ruin the experience. Of course, if you aren't concerned by these issues then it may well be that N is the right choice for you. I appreciate that any of these thoughts are rambling, and I should draw your attention to the fact that what I want from my layout is clearly quite different to what you want from yours (I tend to be drawn to termini and shunting layouts with lots of operating potential) but I hope that at least some of my comments are useful. I want to stress again that in my mind solution 2 is the only bad option which I would absolutely advise against. The rest have their pros and cons, and only you can really decide which is best. While I've offered some thoughts, keep in mind that I probably wouldn't build any of these layouts for myself due to differing tastes (unless perhaps I was really forunate and had room for Didnot in addition to a large-ish terminus!), so the things that spring to mind for me might be of little importance to you. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best and look forward to seeing whatever you produce. I'm sure it will be great, based on what we've seen so far.
Loving the idea of the helix, do really like current layout, maybe could get rid of top fiddle yard and do another scenic break, and put yard underneath as 2nd layer
Hi mate Great video keep the 00 gauge build the extension with the helix then put a fake wall around it then install it even put CCTV on the helix and the you can see what's happening all the time but it all comes down to what you want Todo with it all and keeping the cost down as much as you can look forward to see what you decide Todo cheers Paul
Can imagine the current fiddle yard at the same level as the scenic one is indeed a pain point. When extending into your workshop, why not consider a folded dog bone? Humbly think it would provide more operating space, as opportunities to reach a lower level fiddle yard and loads of scenes to think about. Either the ends of the dog bones can be run arounds, or lead towards a helix or even a no-helix configuration. Considering helices, I’m of the opinion, any well planned and constructed helix will work properly. Plus optimum radius and grade for the upward traffic. Accessibility of course another factor.
Hi Dave, in an ideal (money no object) world I’d definitely go for option 4, but I really like the idea of the access to the workshop with a helix or just a run round fiddle yard so trains entering the tunnel disappear into the workshop then another train emerging by the station would be good, maybe you could re work the existing fiddle yard for something a bit more scenic instead once you’ve created the fiddle yards in the workshop area, I can feel train automation in the wind ! 😆 cheers Darrell
I like the idea however I’m unsure how reliable a helix actually is. There’s so many people who’ve said they aren’t that great. N gauge however yes, so much more in the same space, the costs yes but if it’s affordable I thinks it’s viable. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
Speaking from zero experience i was going to say stick with what you have and work on improving/redesigning one section at a time. Having a countryside area parade route is great and is more track going to improve your enjoyment? In the end though I came to think n gauge is worth considering. I think you should look into automation too. Can you do somewhere more manageable than didcot parkway or model a more manageable portion of what you want. How important is location specific stock Are you definitely not moving
Hello Dave, just finish it as is. Modelling specific locations sounds good but eventually becomes as samey as everything else. The layout looks great and I quote occams razor; "hypotheses must not be multiplied". The layout has your touch in it, good or bad. As for n gauge, your eyesight will only degrade old fruit. Underground Eric's graffiti suggests that "n gauge sucks", banksy could be right! Yours, Andy.
defiantly option 4 , ive just dismantled my layout as moving ive learned a lot, made mistakes, but seam to get more enjoyment building the layout than running it , go for it as it will take you years an years to complete a 32' x 12' layout and of course you can computer control it so you could run a large layout on your own ..............tony
I just went from N gauge to O Gauge as my eyes are now old . lol I still love my N gauge , but i have an immense appreciation for O gauge . Yes it has its limits but i love the detail i can get out of it , so i'd like you to consider it . Maybe also lower the existing OO layout a few feet on the wall and build a new N or O gauge above it with the OO being well lit with LED's . My O gauge is pretty much at chest height for perspective , though 80cm - 90cm width of layout re arm reach is my only restriction .
Now having watched on to the end of your video, whilst struggling to hear a word, I would advise you to go for the bigger shed space or you will always be frustrated and regretting. You will need to insulate it properly, something most people neglect. As you can see from my layout I've knocked together two rooms to create 33 feet in length and it still seems too short..Although they are slightly awkward areas.... and it's certainly not wide enough for decent long sweeping curves! ...(See Michael Smith's Lakeside for length and Davidson Parkway/Everard Junction for sweeping curves). I'm sure you will come to a logical conclusion having listened to your consideration on this video. Regards again, Julian
i would go for the extension next door and get it insulated as far as being able to run it your self look up micks railway he has 40 ft plus and he manages to run it him self hope this helps
Dave, firstly sort out your audio level, it's far too low and we struggle to hear you. Don't go down the N gauge trap! Great for space but It's a silly gauge if you want to feel the layout! Regards Julian
I would seriously consider n gauge, as you like continuous long rakes and n is ideal for that, and you can get a lovely long realistic track plan. It is also very rewarding to model though fiddly. I gave up on OO a while back as I like to model long locations and there were so many compromises on OO that made it untenable. N sound dcc is not too bad, I have good sound from my 68. Also the locos in general are relatively cheap on Ebay now around £100 for a loco. Dapol and farish do though take an age from announcement to release in n which can be fustrating. Probably a big move for you though so could understand you sticking with OO. I would also recommend modeling a location you like I think you mentioned one, then amending to fit, it stops flights of fancy cheers.
Good to hear you don't need to move. Saves a lot of packing. Option 6 keep OO gauge and build N gauge above it. Which will give you access to do the wiring for N gauge and place lights on the underside to light up the OO. This will let you have plenty of space for full rake trains. As it a smaller gauge the eye line will make it look similar in size to the OO gauge your used too. Hope this helps. Stay safe.
N gauge all the way, my whole layout is Unitrack so far and is exceptionally reliable. Your point about stock availability/selling out is very valid but I see that in my OO dabbling too, I miss out on loads purely because retail isn't designed to keep things on the shelf anymore. But Didcot is an awesome idea!
Hi Dave, great to hear you can progress your layout plans again. I have watched your video with interest and the options are all quite valid. As an N gauge modeller I model BR transition Western Region. This satisfies my love of the diesel hydraulics, end of WR steam and allows a few BR Green diesel interlopers!! I run DCC sound too. Positives for me are: ability to run scale length trains, incredibly detailed N gauge stock now available for my chosen area, the ability to create scenic vistas and allow trains to run through the scenery. I enjoy the detail and overall impact of N. I agree with your comments on sound re cacophony of noise! It is not necessary to have all locos sound-fitted! You know what you love and N is a great scale, but it depends on what is the most important for you.
Greetings Dave, as an N Gauger I must confess a bias 😲 but in this case only you will know what will give you the most satisfying result 🤔 For me, N Gauge is more about modelling a location with trains running through it and OO and O are more suited to show casing the train models themselves 🤔 So long rakes and sweeping curves - N Gauge, TMD and finely detailed models - OO Gauge , trying for both might not be good for you sanity, unless you have two layouts 😱 Best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️
Very interesting, I have dog bone with lower storage accessed via a 4 track helix (60 metres track) then a long run and turnaround. If you plan the helix you wont have an issue, I cant ever remember a derailment with 9-10 coach trains even in reverse. N gauge has improved out of sight, I have about a 4-5 minute circuit and still growing, I have class 108 with factory sound and it's great. When i designed my layout I wanted the trains to go somewhere and then come back as opposed to going round and round, With the space you have and If you want scale length trains and huge runs N gauge is ideal. I think once you have decided on what gauge if it is N gauge I would start with a blank sheet of paper and really think what you want, i got many ideas from fellow you tube channels. I have built my layout in modules so at some point can be disassembled, for one person it's big and I have been on it 10 years but love building it and sharing my progress. I think oo/ ho is great but i wanted the longer runs through country side and town etc and i would have needed 40+ feet long room not 20 ft which i have. All the best
Having gone, through diferent circumstances, from one layout to a new one in a similar size / location, it's been interesting to observe how much of the design, imagination, come from an instinct that seems to be repeated in a new layout, even if the canvas is blank. There were things I liked in the first layout, so I did them again. There were things I didn't like too, though, and I made sure I avoided them.
But, in my experience, you can never have enough space. Especially with oo gauge.
Build a shed for the storage, then extend through and knock the wall down.
Then empty your new shed and extend into that too.
Then the garden.
And if that's not enough, evict your family and extend into your house.
I concur....and laughed like a drain!
Keep what you have The addition of a helix and low level storage sounds a great idea as an addition.
For me, keeping the current layout is a strong option. I think it's very well balanced between the urban and rural scenes, and both are well modelled. But the fact that you've made this video suggests that you're not really happy with it, so probably won't be motivated to stick with it for long.
I wouldn't touch 2 with a bargepole. A helix is very high-risk and putting it out of sight is only going to make things worse. Even if the helix works, a derailment at the back of the low level fiddle yard will be a nightmare to deal with, and to be honest it doesn't sound like it would offer a huge improvement even if everything goes to plan.
3 is certainly worth considering if you now have a better idea of what you want from a layout than when you started, as is 4. When I first saw 'Didnot' I thought it was way too much for one person to operate, but now that I look at it I think it might be manageable. You could either set trains running through Platforms 1 and 2 using the fast lines and route to Swindon, while operating 3, 4, 5, the yard, and the avoiding lines uding the slow lines to Paddington and route to Oxford (or vice-versa). And you could start by just laying the fasts and the Swindon lines (with the necessary pointwork in place) so that you can get trains running before you build the rest of the layout, which might stop you losing interest before you get off the ground. As big, crazy ideas go, this one is actually not that ridiculous, and if you think you can deliver on it and be satisfied by it then I would say go for it.
I would try to spend as much time as possible familiarising yourself with N before committing to a change of scale, both from an aesthetic and practical perspective. Do you mind that the trains (about 1/8th of the volume of 00) have less 'presence'? Are you happy with the lower level of detail visible in N? Are you confident that your eyesight is (and will remain) good enough both to work in and appreciate the smaller scale? Are your hands steady and precise enough to make buildings and rerail stock in N? Are you happy with the fact that shunting is (unless I've been misinformed) much more difficult in N? If any of these questions cause serious doubt, I would think very carefully about whether changing scale is the best course of action, as they could ruin the experience. Of course, if you aren't concerned by these issues then it may well be that N is the right choice for you.
I appreciate that any of these thoughts are rambling, and I should draw your attention to the fact that what I want from my layout is clearly quite different to what you want from yours (I tend to be drawn to termini and shunting layouts with lots of operating potential) but I hope that at least some of my comments are useful. I want to stress again that in my mind solution 2 is the only bad option which I would absolutely advise against. The rest have their pros and cons, and only you can really decide which is best. While I've offered some thoughts, keep in mind that I probably wouldn't build any of these layouts for myself due to differing tastes (unless perhaps I was really forunate and had room for Didnot in addition to a large-ish terminus!), so the things that spring to mind for me might be of little importance to you. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best and look forward to seeing whatever you produce. I'm sure it will be great, based on what we've seen so far.
Loving the idea of the helix, do really like current layout, maybe could get rid of top fiddle yard and do another scenic break, and put yard underneath as 2nd layer
Hi mate
Great video keep the 00 gauge build the extension with the helix then put a fake wall around it then install it even put CCTV on the helix and the you can see what's happening all the time but it all comes down to what you want Todo with it all and keeping the cost down as much as you can look forward to see what you decide Todo cheers Paul
Can imagine the current fiddle yard at the same level as the scenic one is indeed a pain point.
When extending into your workshop, why not consider a folded dog bone? Humbly think it would provide more operating space, as opportunities to reach a lower level fiddle yard and loads of scenes to think about. Either the ends of the dog bones can be run arounds, or lead towards a helix or even a no-helix configuration.
Considering helices, I’m of the opinion, any well planned and constructed helix will work properly. Plus optimum radius and grade for the upward traffic. Accessibility of course another factor.
Hi Dave, in an ideal (money no object) world I’d definitely go for option 4, but I really like the idea of the access to the workshop with a helix or just a run round fiddle yard so trains entering the tunnel disappear into the workshop then another train emerging by the station would be good, maybe you could re work the existing fiddle yard for something a bit more scenic instead once you’ve created the fiddle yards in the workshop area, I can feel train automation in the wind ! 😆 cheers Darrell
I like the idea however I’m unsure how reliable a helix actually is. There’s so many people who’ve said they aren’t that great. N gauge however yes, so much more in the same space, the costs yes but if it’s affordable I thinks it’s viable. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
Didcot is one of my favourite stations
Lovel video Dave you put together liked thanks DD.
My personal favourite would be both rooms for scenario 4 but probably hugely expensive. N gauge would allow scale length trains in the current space.
Speaking from zero experience i was going to say stick with what you have and work on improving/redesigning one section at a time. Having a countryside area parade route is great and is more track going to improve your enjoyment?
In the end though I came to think n gauge is worth considering. I think you should look into automation too.
Can you do somewhere more manageable than didcot parkway or model a more manageable portion of what you want.
How important is location specific stock
Are you definitely not moving
Very Good... (By the way, industrial action by the RMT hopefully will not stop you will it?) Just Joking...ha ha
Hello Dave, just finish it as is. Modelling specific locations sounds good but eventually becomes as samey as everything else. The layout looks great and I quote occams razor; "hypotheses must not be multiplied". The layout has your touch in it, good or bad. As for n gauge, your eyesight will only degrade old fruit. Underground Eric's graffiti suggests that "n gauge sucks", banksy could be right!
Yours, Andy.
I’d go N gauge you could use existing baseboards and have a great layout in your space! I’m doing the same myself
defiantly option 4 , ive just dismantled my layout as moving ive learned a lot, made mistakes, but seam to get more enjoyment building the layout than running it , go for it as it will take you years an years to complete a 32' x 12' layout and of course you can computer control it so you could run a large layout on your own ..............tony
I just went from N gauge to O Gauge as my eyes are now old . lol
I still love my N gauge , but i have an immense appreciation for O gauge . Yes it has its limits but i love the detail i can get out of it , so i'd like you to consider it .
Maybe also lower the existing OO layout a few feet on the wall and build a new N or O gauge above it with the OO being well lit with LED's . My O gauge is pretty much at chest height for perspective , though 80cm - 90cm width of layout re arm reach is my only restriction .
DCC Sound with O Gauge is amazing , plus the option of smoke etc :)
Now having watched on to the end of your video, whilst struggling to hear a word, I would advise you to go for the bigger shed space or you will always be frustrated and regretting. You will need to insulate it properly, something most people neglect. As you can see from my layout I've knocked together two rooms to create 33 feet in length and it still seems too short..Although they are slightly awkward areas.... and it's certainly not wide enough for decent long sweeping curves! ...(See Michael Smith's Lakeside for length and Davidson Parkway/Everard Junction for sweeping curves). I'm sure you will come to a logical conclusion having listened to your consideration on this video. Regards again, Julian
I would keep what you have but maybe re introduce the catenary ,it’s a nice model
i suggest that you keep the tmd part of the layout as i quit like how you have built the TMD
i would go for the extension next door and get it insulated as far as being able to run it your self look up micks railway he has 40 ft plus and he manages to run it him self hope this helps
🅿🆁🅾🅼🅾🆂🅼
Dave, firstly sort out your audio level, it's far too low and we struggle to hear you.
Don't go down the N gauge trap! Great for space but It's a silly gauge if you want to feel the layout! Regards Julian