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Can Germany switch from coal to hydrogen? | DW Business
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2024
- Phasing out fossil fuels will change economies around the world. The Ruhr area in Germany began exiting coal production in the 1960s and is still transitioning its industry. Now, the region bets big on hydrogen as a new power source. But is it an example for other regions that aim to phase out coal?
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#Ruhr #hydrogen #coal
Hydrogen is not a primary power source in the first place.
Except for fusion reactors.
On Mars @@darinherrick9224
@@darinherrick9224that's helio-3 and it's not even on this planet
Hydrogen is NOT a power source, hydrogen is NOT an energy, it is only a way to store energy, very inefficiently at that, with a round-trip efficient of 30-40%, vs 80-85% for both battery storage and pumped-hydro!
So... how much stock have YOU invested into the oil/fuel industry, I wonder?
@@TheBlackAndDeckerBootyWrecker None, ever! Got forbid!
I have invested in a big chunk of shares in TSLA in March 2013, and another in June/July 2019... plus some more here and there, including a couple of hundreds last week.
Those are now worth... more money than I need for a (very) comfy retirement!
I also invested in co-founding a company active in bio-based chemistry, phosphate recycling and renewable energies (including "green" hydrogen... but destined to replace "grey" hydrogen in industrial applications, NOT transportation or energy storage).
the advantage of hydrogen is that it can be stored and transported in a similar way to natural gas. Wind and solar power needs storage to be really efficient, and batteries and pumped hydro is fine for short term storage, but it is not great for if you want to store enough energy for several months.
Hydrogen can also be used as feedstock in heavy industry, instead of natural gas.
@@thegreatdane3627 It is much, much more effcient to move energy in cables as electricity than using the electricity to make hydrogen, cool it, move it physically and then burn it to drive a turbine and generator to make it electricity again.
@@SuperAnatolli sure, but you still need a way to store that electricity. A solar panel can produce a lot of electricity on a summer day, but that won't help on a cold winter night unless there is a way to store some of that electricity.
Anyone proposing using existing pipelines is part of the gaslighting of hydrogen, it penetrates into steel and it has a very low density, you'll have a hard time finding an existing pipeline that is economical for it's transport
H2 is not green, it consumes lots of electricty.
in summer time a lot of green power plants (mostly PV) are shut down because of overproduction.
pushing that amount of extra energy into hydrogen storage for the winter might be a better solution than letting the energy unused.
Its not that simple
Hidrogen has very poor energy density by volume
.. It need cold cryogenic temperatute to keep it stable.
The cost of maintenance is unappealing
I've heard decades worth of "can we switch" and we haven't, so I'll say no.
You can't switch from a source of energy to something that requires energy to produce.
The video's conclusion was: just switch. lol
I would love to see the long term planning where the green hydrogen is going to come from. It is attractive as a power source for certain applications, but since it is extremely energy intensive to produce, it is going to take an abundance of green electricity to make the hydrogen anything else but a very cool energy intensive and expensive gimmick that it is today. Maybe building a few nuclear powerplants to make a relevant contribution to the reduction of CO2 would make sense in parallel to development of a very high electricity intensive fuel.
Why do you think China's building multiple long distance hydrogen pipelines and massive liquification facilities? Green hydrogen will come from China of course, China can build more solar in a year than the entire US power grid, there's plenty of green hydrogen to be made.
Using hydrogen as a storage of power from wind mills, hydro, solar is a promising technology. Working out the ineffencies is what humans do. Experiment , innovate, collect data, fine tune, continue...continue...continue
Hydrogen is very dangerous because it is highly explosive in very low concentration with air to very high concentration.Hydrogen molecule is very light so it moves at very high speed.Thus its combustion rate is too fast. But we have to use it any way with extreme caution in fuel cells ,internal combustion engines,iron extraction ,air ships(powered by Solar cells) and as energy storing agent.
The problem is whatever energy we produce or have it almost must be for free in order to compete with China where the ppl are working much more hours a day at a lower cost and the Chinese are very hard workers too. But apart from that, how come China is now plunged into a hard economic crisis as well, dispite all his work force and discipline + govern backed companies ? Europes energy system should be very inter connected between all countries, the south has sun, others have wind, others nuclear and Germany invention and technology, it is a and + and story otherwise we won't survive.
All mainstream media want you to believe China in economic crisis, reason not important.
Solution: wind turbines + nuclear + geothermal + solar + hydroelectric + waste biomass. None of them are perfect, or particularly abundant in Germany, but a combination of all of them might be just ok.
Exaclty depending on a single fuel is what got the world on this mess.
Cancel nuclear... Germany is anti-nuclear
@@trowawayacc Right. Even though fossil fuels are quickly becoming unsustainable, they do have diversity. Natural gas, oil, and coal don't work well by themselves. The combination is what makes them effective today. As we move to carbon free fuel sources, we'll also need diversity.
How are they supposed to get the energy to produce the hydrogen? And why take the route around hydrogen and loose 70% of the enrgy in the process? Lots of money going down the drain here.
The idea is that when solar/wind is in excess, produce hydrogen. It's cheaper to build 3/4x the amount of solar/wind you need versus coal, and more than that for nuclear.
Think the end result will just be normal batteries, not hydrogen, at least before 2030.
@@Masterrunescapeer Yes, but it is much better to transefer the the electricity and store the hydrogen close to the consumer than make hydrogen and transport that in pipes. One option could be to have the hydrogen storage central, by storing hydrogen is potentialy dangerous so I am not keen on that idea for safty reasons. Apart from safty, a central storage and "re-electricl" facility would be prefered.
😆4X markup price , LNG from U$A .
Remember to Say Thank You to U$A.
Germany's main supplier of natural gas is Norway, not the US. And the current price of natural gas in Europe is much lower than it was 12/1-2022.
Ich bin ein japanischer Ingenieur und es tut mir leid, wenn ich es nicht gut übersetzen kann.
Ich hatte schon immer eine Frage, aber Kohlenstoff ist notwendig, um die Härte von Eisen zu erhöhen.
Nach meinem Verständnis wird Koks aufgrund seines Kohlenstoffgehalts in Hochöfen verwendet.
Daher ist es möglich, zur Stromerzeugung von Kohle auf LNG umzusteigen, aber aufgrund der ISO-Vorschriften denke ich, dass Kohle im Stahlherstellungsprozess immer noch notwendig ist.
Ich denke, wir müssen den Verbrauch fossiler Brennstoffe reduzieren, indem wir die richtigen Leute an den richtigen Stellen einsetzen, ohne zu hysterisch nachzudenken.
Würde ein Auto oder ein Zug während der Fahrt kaputtgehen, würden viele Menschen ihr Leben verlieren.
Dasselbe Argument gilt für die vollständige Abschaffung von Fluorchlorkohlenwasserstoffen, dem größten Fehler der Menschheit.
Ich halte es für richtig, FCKW in Spraydosen komplett abzuschaffen, aber ich halte es für richtig, die Sammlung von FCKW, die als Kühlkatalysatoren verwendet werden, einzuschränken und sie weiterhin zu verwenden.
Als ich in der Firma anfing, gab es noch Reinigungsmaschinen, die Freon-Lösung verwendeten, und ich weiß, dass Freon-Gas bei etwa 10 Grad Celsius erstarrt.
Mit anderen Worten: Ich halte es für sehr wahrscheinlich, dass das Fluorchlorkohlenwasserstoffgas erstarrt, bevor es die Stratosphäre erreicht, und nicht die Ozonschicht erreicht.
Die als Kühlkatalysatoren verwendeten Fluorkohlenwasserstoffe wurden durch Fluorkohlenwasserstoffe ersetzt, und möglicherweise wurde durch die Zugabe von Kohlenstoff ein Gas erzeugt, das 100 bis 10.000 Mal wärmer als CO2 war. (Anscheinend hat es einen mehrere Dutzend Mal stärkeren Treibhauseffekt als reines Freon)
Darüber hinaus wurde der Kühleffekt verringert, was zu einer Verschwendung von Strom und Benzinverbrauch führte, was möglicherweise die globale Erwärmung beschleunigt hat.
Bevor Sie handeln, sollten Sie sorgfältig überlegen.
Hey, whatever the market dictates.
If a business can exist without subsidies: that's the ultimate test of productivity.
I think hydrogen has some promise, but it's an infant industry. We have to be creative to find uses for it
Oil and coal get subsidies just like solar, wind, and other "green" alternatives and at larger amounts. Honestly I can't think of any big company, technology, that doesn't run on subsidies.
@@OnyxNJclown yes it's a messy political world. And we wonder why the economy is one bubble after another.
Just curious, are there any negative byproducts by using hydrogen? Can there be a tipping point of some sort by extinguishing this element?
The byproduct is water, when burning/oxidizing hydrogen.
@@IrenESorius that wasn’t my question
@@geoffsimpkins7650 yes it was.
@@darinherrick9224 no, it wasn’t.
It is water, just google. @@geoffsimpkins7650
What burns with fossils is in fact, the hydrogen component. So, just make it from captured energy streams, i.e. from dams, wind turbines, or solar panels. Massless energy is by far, easier to access and far more powerful.
Preserve surplus grid streams, to make hydrogen and battery fill, as well.
Think strategically for the best results. Fuels have never been so conveniently ready for generation.
„green“ energy from hydrogen won‘t work without nuclear power and at that point you can skip the wasteful hydrogen part entirely
Are you a lobyst for batteries and coal? 😅
@@trowawayacc I heard unicorn horns store hydrogen efficiently, or you could just keep watching pseudo-science wishful thinking RUclips channels.
why not switch to nuclear?
They close all nuclear due to chernobyl incident.
Thas's cool, closing low emission nuclear energy and let coal plants work, nice
Why use electricity or methane to get hydrogen when you can use methane or even better electricity directly - cheaper, more energy efficient and greener
Hydrogen, you are gonna get it from where?
From oil and gas wells
Can
Not
Coal to heat and electricity is coming back, the oil and gas industry deserve more attention during all transition to keep transforming the economy. Hydrogen do not replace gas natural and oil, this is only storing technology with high cost. Wind or solar are intermittent and the efficiency is low. Better coal with smoke in air, than wind and solar machine build with coal energy and smoke in air.
The clean air policies can be achieved only using a) nuclear energy, b) geothermal energy and c) next generation discovered but nor disclosed "levitation-gravity energy generators" which use old mines or mountains.
No. Sabine Hossenfelder explained all this.
Do your homework. This is lazy journalism.
you have a link for that? thanks.
@@davidk6264 Did you get the link? Some channels block comments with links.
No but I'll look it up to thanks
@@davidk6264 Search "sabine hossenfelder hydrogen" title The Trouble with Hydrogen
We don’t need hydrogen, we simply need electric powered by solar, wind, hydro and small nuclear power.
hydrogen is a way to store the energy from those sources. A solar panel can produce a lot of energy on a summer day, but it would be nice if some of it could be stored for the winter.
The best option is to work with other countries, Germany can have many more wind turbines but not enough.
Even if the entire sea off the north coast of Germany will filled with wind turbines it wouldn't be enough. But countries that have a coast on the ocean like, France Spain Portugal, the Netherlands, Norway, Ireland, and all the others can have much more wind power installed.
Transmitting electricity over long distances across Europe makes much more sense than transporting hydrogen.
Please look up for the "green hydrogen coast line", a project run by the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany, all subsidiesed by the EU and the gvts.
Why do you hate the natural coast so much?
@@lukei6255 well the coast line isn't going to be there if there is too much sea level rise, and considering all the other damage that comes with global warming it needs dramatic action.
However in terms of wildlife, wind turbines out at sea become man made reafs, and massive amounts of fish live at the base of these wind turbines, so they are all round good and we need to build more wind turbines.
@@matthewbaynham6286 not true. I work on a few Pacific islands and there are new resorts etc and no one ever mentions any sea levels rising. It's a myth. On the other hand these wind turbines are an eye sore, cause headaches and use lots of materials that need to be transported to those locations.
@@lukei6255 what absolute nonsense
fusion power in next 20 years + ai robots + terraforming machines size of mount everest -> problem solved
and a volume knob to set desired co2 levels in atmosphere
What a dumb idea. Hydrogen is not an energy source. It has to be manufactured.
Hydrogen can be used as storage battery for the overloads from the offshore windmills and others as well as raw material for proceeding things like steel, glass, paper etc as well.
Lots of start ups are working on alternative storage possibilities as well.
Electrolyseurs (wind to power) are under construction everywhere as well.
The EU27 will replace all fossil fuels (oil, coal, nat gas) with green hydrogen, the goal is focused on 2030-2045.
Greetings from the EU27 👋
and in your car you burn unmanufactured crude oil or what?
@@Ganglius
EVs or powered by hydrogen, like trains, trucks...
The worlds first 14 hydrogen powered trains (Alstom) started their service since August 2022 in Lower Saxony/Germany..
Hydrogen costs more energy to produce than it provides. You are wasting energy that you cannot ever get back.
@@saba1030 Hydrogen powered trains are a very dumb idea. It would be more efficient to produce the electricity at a stationary point and transmit it through cables.
What about the rest of the world, will they switch?
@@jeremytine what’s the share of H2 compared to fossil?
No, hydrogen economy is just crypto scam for old people.
No one with a calculator would seriously think it’s a viable solution
Nothing was really answered here!
Flying over Europe last winter on a clear cloudless day one think struck us, a nasty brown cloud over the Munich area, clear sign of coal burning to produce electricity…very eye opening…
Just dont greenwash please
No. Goodbye.
😆From Saudi , but Also by China
13-12-2023 Climate change: Saudi Aramco and Chinese partner soon to fire up hydrogen-conversion pilot plant
Sure. But at what cost?
coal has been on life support for over 2 decades now... we could if conservatives would be able to let loose :P
Impossible.
God bless you my germany 🥰
What could possibly go wrong?
"Oh, the humanity!"
Very easy solution. Just move Germany to Iberian, Italic and Greek peninsulae and whatever doesn't fit there to Magrib and Middle East.
Can China switch from coal to solar?
They produce more electricity from solar than any other country on earth, 5 times more than Germany does.
RUHR POTT ERWÄÄÄÄHNT!!! OHHHLEEEE SCHALKE!!!
Solar, dingbats. Cheap and easy. Lower the import duties if you haven't already gotten rid if the blockages of Chinese solar panels.
hydrogen is a way to store the energy from wind and solar. And the solar panels should be produced right here in Europe.
9:31 also not sure of your own gender too... ;)
I SPELL EXPLAIN WRONG COTROLLING THE TONGUE BOOK HUMAN DESTINY
fossil fuels will always be there atleast for the next 50 years.
Even if germany has 0 co2 emissions... then what ?
DR DEMENTO BAND DR HOOK BAND TEACH ME BARDO MOVIE
Germany has been a worst offender when it comes to green house gas emissions
PROFESSOR BARTO BERTOV BOOKS NEW GEOPOLITICAL BOOKS TRY TO EXPAIN NEW ORDER COMING
Only LNG from the master Germany is allowed to switch to.
😆4X markup price , LNG from U$A .
Remember to Say Thank You to U$A.
Yes, with nuclear power. Which Putin made you cancel.
The EU27/Germany will replace all fossil fuels (oil, coal, nat gas) with green hydrogen, the goal is focused on 2030-2045.
Hydrogen can also be used as storage battery for the overloads from the offshore windmills and others as well as raw material for proceeding things like steel, glass, paper etc.
Lots of start ups are working on alternative storage possibilities as well.
Electrolyseurs (wind to power) are under construction everywhere as well.
Greetings from the EU27 👋
nuclear was canceled after fukushima
@@sep27061985 the Japanese are building new nuclear reactors so...
solar & batteeries already cheaper than nuclear. and by the way it will never let somebody else blackmail you with nuclear fuel deliveries halt
Who paid for this the fossil fuel industry. Hydrogen is not green fuel. It’s a product made from utilizing methane. Energy used to make energy not green energy at all.
green hydrogen is a way to store energy from wind and solar.
Have you thought about nuclear power? There's this little known country in the Southern Pacific that has one-third of the world's uranium, it's called Australia 🇦🇺 😊, we could also do you a deal on coal and LNG 😂😅😊,
Germany had this idiotic green government elected that shut down all of their nuclear power plants
Smart move huh :D
Hydrogen is produced by steam reforming of natural gas or hydrolysis of water. Having cut off cheap Russian gas and banned nuclear power it will be interesting to see by what fantasy the Greens square this circle to produce hydrogen at a cost that will keep industry alive, certainly not with expensive US LNG.
hydrogen can be produced with electricity from wind or solar. That is the whole point.
@@thegreatdane3627 Sourced from hope or a nearby water source? Will magic transport it across oceans without most being lost due to how hard it is to store?
@@thegreatdane3627 Yes but then you either have the problem of transporting the energy from the wind units to the industrial areas where the hydrogen is to be produced and used, as in Germany where over 3000 km of grid line is yet to be built or you have the problem of liquefying and transporting the hydrogen that will use up most of the wind power and is uneconomic.
In order to make this utopia economically justified, the European Union is trying to force everyone to pay for emissions... that is, for the use of hydrocarbons)))... is this necessary for those who have hydrocarbons, for those who do not need to increase the cost of energy, for the sake of so that “green” energy in Europe would become competitive with carbon and nuclear energy in the USA, Russia, China and other countries?)
Not sure what you're trying to say there.
Europe is enforcing a carbon emissions tax to make it so industries are incentivized to reduce emissions to compete, and why would you not do it on import as well to make sure you're still competitive, else everyone will just move the emissions intensive part of their business overseas and import back.
@@Masterrunescapeer Europe is a cheater. She is not competitive in a game in which she has bad cards (since she has no resources). So she wants to cancel the cards of other players), or make them less significant. Naturally, all this is under plausible pretexts... when the government redistributes wealth to the poor through taxation, this is understandable, but Europe is not a world government, and no one in the world is obliged to feed voters in the European Union by paying a carbon tax)
Germanywillbecometheleadinghydrogenpowerintheworlditalwaysovercomesdifficultiesandleads
Another step towards deindustrialization
Papa U$A is smiling ,"welcome to move all factory to U$A"
Energy and immigration politics of Germany will turn Germany from developed country in to developing country like Pakistan.
Yeahh, right, worlds third largest economy...😂
Yeah blame immigrants for your energy lol 🤦♂️
If Germany go's down the green road it will go broke
😂Green party is a Trojan horse from papa U$A
The right thing Germany should do is switch from US to Brics.
Germany just cut 75% of its public funding to battery research. In short, GERMANY IS FUQ’D
Be friend with RUSSIA again, problem solved.
I don't anyone will never be dumb enough to trust russia with their energy needs ever again. That is just a recipe for disaster as we have all seen. The bridges have been burned and there is no going back.
😂Green party is a Trojan horse from papa U$A
So .. they need energy .. and this smart germans quit the cheap rusian gas (with the help of allys) and choose tonuse “green” carbon ! But now they discover hidrogen 🤭 because is everywere .. in water lot of hidrogen😉 the problem is to extract the hidrogen u need tonuse more energy then y can recover by burning the hidrogen again 😂😂😂 they will learn this soon .. ar maybe they have a magic wand and can split the water 😂😂😂😂