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I had a TR6 that a previous owner had bought a recon head for. The parts supplier had, had an 8th of an inch milled off of it... My engine re builder could not believe what he was seeing. The old boy that did all his porting and gas flowing had never seen the likes on a running car... The car restorer was so incensed when I produced the receipt he reported it to the triumph owners club! I had a cast iron door stop and some good used valves!! Lucky for me I found an old compleat engine not far that had stood under a bench for 20 years. But was working last time it was in a car.. they spent a week with everything they could think of to release the head, I. The end it budged by about an inch, just enough to drive wooden wedges between head and block. Then it stuck solid . He had to hacksaw through the studs to get it off... Apparently I bought the only TR6 engine that had never had the head lifted since it was out together!! The old boy working on it was over the moon as he could work wonders with it as it was untouched. All they had to do was hone the surface of the head... By God they got some smooth power out of it!!!
Very interesting again Mike, had same problem with pitted rockers and used a flap disc on angle grinder to take step out! That was 8 yrs ago and still ok.
When I had the head done on my 300tdi discovery the difference between the head being tested and planed and a new and head was £100 so I had a new head put on it incase the head was internally damaged or cracked and would still need a head replacement after all that work played it safe as the head makes the engine smooth and easy starting
Get a Turner head, they are a great outfit,. Yes they will cost, but you get what you pay for. Got a 2 1/4 l petrol rebuild engine for my S 3, perfect ! Oil thight ! Head done to run unleaded. Very happy with them !
Rocker arms can be machined to new by eng shop. Used to do them as apprentice 42 years ago, also can micro pean pistons which expands the shirts, machine top ring groove and fit a steel insert to correct the wear. In NZ back in that time many a eng was fixed that way.
.010" Or 10 thou is still only 1/4 of 1mm A quarter of one millimetre. Whilst this will bring the valves closer to the pistons it really would have very little effect on heat absorption capability or strength of the head itself. I would be more worries about the machine shop wanting to straighten up the head as it appears to be thicker one end than the other! I probably have similar worries about using Chinese head castings. No Guarantees, you pays your money and takes your chances. Aluminium was used to offer greater heat dissipation and less localised heating hot spots which would cause cracking and a few pounds less weight. There is a machine to reface the rocker arms... OR a nice oil stone and sit in the sun for a few hours drinking tea and working the faces. Cheaper to get new rocker arms!
That is the problem with Chinese parts - you do not know what is going on inside castings - I know a few cheap early Indian castings were full of holes To do this properly is going to be expensive
Hi Mike that head expands twice as much as cast iron when heated, a rough calculation and that head expanded upwards 0.3mm or 0.012" in old money. I dare say the temp would be higher closer to the cylinders. Have you ever considered heat treatment to straighten a head? Bolt it to a thick steel plate and soak in an oven for 4hrs at 230 to 260 deg C and cool very slowly. The idea is to release the stresses in the metal.
Aye Captain, warp factor 8. Would be tempted to put a new AMC head on that as who knows where the expense will end with that one! As for cast iron heads, my old Nissan 2.7 went pretty well and was economical and reliable plus no cam belt to snap (just a pity that the body and chassis parted company due to the old tin worm)
You could get the rockers shaved but who knows how far the hardness goes into the steel. It really needs new rockers put through it. Prob due to lack of oil changes and or non detergent oil used. Also how many k's has the motor got on it mike. These cars are getting old theae days
Those rockers are for the bin! What do they say, do it once do it properly. Pinch a penny cost a pound! What some don’t appreciate is your reputation goes with the vehicle, I can here them talking in the pub, I took my car to Mike the engine rebuild only lasted me 10,000km waste of time! But what they don’t say is I just asked Mike to do a cheap job! I hope your customer sees the light and gets you to rebuild it properly. At least your videos have the true record!!
Spot on! This is the reason I now record everything - these motors are very badly neglected and need full rebuilds Don't know what it is like in NZ, but here if it starts, it is a good motor - could be 50% down no power, drinks a litre of oil a week, but it starts
Matt Luszczac , Yes fully agree but why stop there, need to get rid of the toothed timing belt and replace it with gears or at least chain drive . Land Rovers should have been designed by people such as Mike instead of bean counters . Oh wait isn't this what all this new Grenadier is all about ? fixing years of L/R. F. ups. Be great if they have got it right .
Which is why I fitted the Isuzu.. All cast, timing gears, vac pump on the alternator, big cast water pump with double belt drive, integral gear driven power steering pump, sleeved liners and if after ,1,000,000 km you decide to over haul it, re build kits are pretty cheap
@@BritannicaRestorations geez i have an isuzu 4bd1t on the ground..make me wonder why ii bother with the tdi. In oz you can get an adapter kit for to gen r380 to 4bd1 from klr. Mmm maybe i should go that route
Mike This may seem a silly question but does a well known branded replacement cylinder head hold more volume of coolant than the cheep version replacement heads it seem your getting to work more on poor quality heads than the others. And would less volume of coolant / flow cause for easier warping. Cheers
I have no idea but there are some heads on the market stating they have better cooling BUT they have more coolant passages to the block, cast into the head These are for the HS2.8 engine, not the Tdi as there are no corresponding holes in the block OR the gasket!
Hi Mike just wondering if you have ever used, or own a tool called a “relative compression tester” such as the DITEX Carscope I Tester, which I’ve see advertised? Its pretty neat as you don’t have to pull glow plugs or injectors to test compression, you can test an engine in less than 2 minutes by just connecting it to the battery, disable the fuel and crank the engine. Could save loads of time and hassle. Love the work you do, easily best on youtube in my opinion.
@@BritannicaRestorations after seeing the video , believe me im a little afraid of that gasket , usually that came on a set of gaskets with the brand bearmach or britpart
G'Day Mike. Mate you sure can pick em! What did you put in the add....."Challenge wanted from your old beat up Landy! No bolt or nut left unturned!" :D Just keep thinking "Grenadier Deposit". Take care matety. :)
The part number for the original 200 and 300 Tdi was the same but when they introduced the metal gasket they changed numbers - they said they are interchangeable but not on a 200 Tdi - you will get oil leak as the metal gasket is not made the same so you are stuck with OEM which is probably Elring
You said that head was only fitted 8 months ago? I bet whoever fitted that head KNEW it was was warped and that's why they fitted a thick head gasket AND why they fitted a "soft" composite gasket rather than a metal one. Shame there isn't the same tradition of diesel LRs in the colonies as we have in the UK. In the UK I could have a bare "known good" 300tdi head in the post today for 120 quid. It'd be a bit of a "bodge" but, if it was mine AND I couldn't get a replacement head easily, I'd think about grinding wider shoulders onto the valves (which I could do myself) so they could sit .010" deeper in the head. I'd also be willing to have a go at stoning those rockers too, rather than replacing them, if it was mine. I guess this kind of shows how costs ramp up when you're paying somebody to do work they have to warranty rather than just pottering about with your own vehicle. Absolutely understand why you'd be unwilling to "bodge" it but, to me, that looks like it'd be salvageable for a competent DIYer.
@@BritannicaRestorations :-D Well, to be pedantic, I only said the *head* might be salvageable. I didn't say anything about the engine, as a whole. :-P I sometimes wonder, as a professional mechanic, do you find it easy to tell people that their pride & joy is knackered? Does it get harder or easier as the years go by? Especially cos I like LRs, I'd probably go out of business as a result of constantly trying to help customers out when I should really be telling them to buy new parts.
I think we are in the same boat - blown their budget on a car of their dreams - only for it to turn into a nightmare Yes i have a hard time saying no, but over here who else will fix them? I am going to have to price my way out of these jobs - I am no longer in my happy space now as the yard is full of vehicles needing major work One of the white 110's desperately needs a bulkhead - I quoted C$10,000 supply and fit - if you work out the parts, painting and fitting ( not like fitting a door) then it is not far off considering everything is imported - and that is not including a wiring harness which as you saw was shockingly bad ( pardon the pun!) I wish I had a couple of Tdi engines here that I could have on hand for straight swaps - would speed jobs up a bit!
Mike .My two pennyworth on this ,entirely down to the owner to make / take a gamble on this . another cheapo chineesium head, and you will most likely have the same problem. Compare cost of decent new head against the work and labour to skim this head , and valve seats re cut deeper , obviously some will also come off the valve head mating surface when they are machined. , Also injector protrusion, something not many consider and it does affect the combustion burn , probably not enough in this instance to be a problem .I seem to recall L/R stating that was the reason why heads were not to be resurfaced , but this was updated years ago. Rocker arm faces can be reground as the hardness is reasonably deep but If it's really bad replace it . Wishing you all the best making this pig of a L/R. better.
@@BritannicaRestorations Water turns to steam at 1BAR holding pressure at 120 deg C (steam tables), steam is very erosive any leaks to atmospheric pressure or to a lower pressure environment and it will automatically flash off.
hello mike , signs of circus clown activity on this head.!customer will have to reach as far as the titanic to pay for this repair .good times with my old series 2a in 1969, none of these problems,
@@BritannicaRestorations You know I keep forgetting you're not falling over engines. To be fair the prices are going up here. Especially since lock down when folks starting fixing long term issues and finding horrors left right and centre!
Stupid question, but is it feasible to shave the head then fit a hand made copper gasket? I guess that would add a third metal to expand and contract and would probably cost a fair few Reddies to make in terms of labour. It wouldn't carry a warranty, either. I've answered my own question.
You've scared me....filled the expansion tank with neat anti-corrisive, engine oil topped up with the right diesel formula ......rhat engine is just plain neglected ....
If it was mine I would sand blast head then treat with a quality gasket sealer then torque down from the centre out >> Next heat head with propane to water boiling point then once cool torque again & repeat >> Rockers lap down true Reason for using alloy for the head it stays cooler
Mike with all the accumulation of scrap at your place could end up in China who in turn make more cylinder heads which prematurely fail end up on the scrap which end up.....ah I think you get the laughable message 👍 great vlog all the same
Is it worth spending any money on this engine that previous “mechanics” have assembled with a Chinese head and missing valve caps? If the owner intends to keep this Land Rover it would be better to fit a genuine replacement engine otherwise I expect a long future of endless engine problems.
Must have been done by a REME squaddie.......bodge it and scarper! Buy cheap pay twice! Typical Chinese knock offs......not even worth being a paper weight.
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NEW! My own Subscription/Donation service at affordable rates!
britrest.com/subscriptions/
Special tools, stickers and old stock parts!
www.britrest.com/shop
www.paypal.me/britrest2018
Thoroughly enjoyed that
I had a TR6 that a previous owner had bought a recon head for. The parts supplier had, had an 8th of an inch milled off of it... My engine re builder could not believe what he was seeing. The old boy that did all his porting and gas flowing had never seen the likes on a running car... The car restorer was so incensed when I produced the receipt he reported it to the triumph owners club! I had a cast iron door stop and some good used valves!! Lucky for me I found an old compleat engine not far that had stood under a bench for 20 years. But was working last time it was in a car.. they spent a week with everything they could think of to release the head, I. The end it budged by about an inch, just enough to drive wooden wedges between head and block. Then it stuck solid . He had to hacksaw through the studs to get it off... Apparently I bought the only TR6 engine that had never had the head lifted since it was out together!! The old boy working on it was over the moon as he could work wonders with it as it was untouched. All they had to do was hone the surface of the head... By God they got some smooth power out of it!!!
Very interesting again Mike, had same problem with pitted rockers and used a flap disc on angle grinder to take step out! That was 8 yrs ago and still ok.
I think that is all it is going to get!
When I had the head done on my 300tdi discovery the difference between the head being tested and planed and a new and head was £100 so I had a new head put on it incase the head was internally damaged or cracked and would still need a head replacement after all that work played it safe as the head makes the engine smooth and easy starting
Get a Turner head, they are a great outfit,. Yes they will cost, but you get what you pay for.
Got a 2 1/4 l petrol rebuild engine for my S 3, perfect ! Oil thight ! Head done to run unleaded.
Very happy with them !
Yes I only fit AMC heads but I get them from a trade supplier
You're a better man than me (many are) if you can measure less than 10thou accurately over that distance with some digital calipers.
Just take a moment , said the dentist when he pulled out the
glow-plugs . What a sound from that gun-
Rocker arms can be machined to new by eng shop. Used to do them as apprentice 42 years ago, also can micro pean pistons which expands the shirts, machine top ring groove and fit a steel insert to correct the wear. In NZ back in that time many a eng was fixed that way.
Thanks for sharing
I think that the whole lot should go on the backburner in a large smelting pot!:) + the neighbours music collection
It’s that ‘good money after bad’ decision ......
.010" Or 10 thou is still only 1/4 of 1mm A quarter of one millimetre. Whilst this will bring the valves closer to the pistons it really would have very little effect on heat absorption capability or strength of the head itself. I would be more worries about the machine shop wanting to straighten up the head as it appears to be thicker one end than the other! I probably have similar worries about using Chinese head castings. No Guarantees, you pays your money and takes your chances. Aluminium was used to offer greater heat dissipation and less localised heating hot spots which would cause cracking and a few pounds less weight. There is a machine to reface the rocker arms... OR a nice oil stone and sit in the sun for a few hours drinking tea and working the faces. Cheaper to get new rocker arms!
That is the problem with Chinese parts - you do not know what is going on inside castings - I know a few cheap early Indian castings were full of holes
To do this properly is going to be expensive
Hi Mike that head expands twice as much as cast iron when heated, a rough calculation and that head expanded upwards 0.3mm or 0.012" in old money. I dare say the temp would be higher closer to the cylinders. Have you ever considered heat treatment to straighten a head? Bolt it to a thick steel plate and soak in an oven for 4hrs at 230 to 260 deg C and cool very slowly. The idea is to release the stresses in the metal.
It's an interesting concept - will have to look for an old oven!
@@BritannicaRestorations It's worth a thought. Principles are sound.
Great Illustration, great explanation again!
Thank you! Cheers!
Aye Captain, warp factor 8. Would be tempted to put a new AMC head on that as who knows where the expense will end with that one! As for cast iron heads, my old Nissan 2.7 went pretty well and was economical and reliable plus no cam belt to snap (just a pity that the body and chassis parted company due to the old tin worm)
AMC are the only heads to buy !
The pits in the rocker tips will put sideways loads on the valve guides.... get them gone!
You could get the rockers shaved but who knows how far the hardness goes into the steel. It really needs new rockers put through it. Prob due to lack of oil changes and or non detergent oil used. Also how many k's has the motor got on it mike. These cars are getting old theae days
Yes these are 25+ years old with 25 year old issues - I bet the crank casings are full of gunk!
Those rockers are for the bin! What do they say, do it once do it properly. Pinch a penny cost a pound! What some don’t appreciate is your reputation goes with the vehicle, I can here them talking in the pub, I took my car to Mike the engine rebuild only lasted me 10,000km waste of time! But what they don’t say is I just asked Mike to do a cheap job! I hope your customer sees the light and gets you to rebuild it properly. At least your videos have the true record!!
Spot on! This is the reason I now record everything - these motors are very badly neglected and need full rebuilds
Don't know what it is like in NZ, but here if it starts, it is a good motor - could be 50% down no power, drinks a litre of oil a week, but it starts
I see the new impact gun looks like you've had it twelve months already.
Pity they do not do a black version!
@@BritannicaRestorations Well it will be shortly.
Someone should make cast iron heads and water pump housings.
Matt Luszczac , Yes fully agree but why stop there, need to get rid of the toothed timing belt and replace it with gears or at least chain drive . Land Rovers should have been designed by people such as Mike instead of bean counters . Oh wait isn't this what all this new Grenadier is all about ? fixing years of L/R. F. ups. Be great if they have got it right .
Which is why I fitted the Isuzu..
All cast, timing gears, vac pump on the alternator, big cast water pump with double belt drive, integral gear driven power steering pump, sleeved liners and if after ,1,000,000 km you decide to over haul it, re build kits are pretty cheap
@@BritannicaRestorations geez i have an isuzu 4bd1t on the ground..make me wonder why ii bother with the tdi. In oz you can get an adapter kit for to gen r380 to 4bd1 from klr. Mmm maybe i should go that route
I would be keen to have a picture of the flywheel and clutch - mine was a 12 inch truck clutch and very heavy - gives a super smooth ride
There used to be a timing gear conversion for TDIs many years ago , there was a little bit more noise but reliable.
Mike
This may seem a silly question but does a well known branded replacement cylinder head hold more volume of coolant than the cheep version replacement heads it seem your getting to work more on poor quality heads than the others. And would less volume of coolant / flow cause for easier warping.
Cheers
I have no idea but there are some heads on the market stating they have better cooling BUT they have more coolant passages to the block, cast into the head
These are for the HS2.8 engine, not the Tdi as there are no corresponding holes in the block OR the gasket!
Hi Mike just wondering if you have ever used, or own a tool called a “relative compression tester” such as the DITEX Carscope I Tester, which I’ve see advertised? Its pretty neat as you don’t have to pull glow plugs or injectors to test compression, you can test an engine in less than 2 minutes by just connecting it to the battery, disable the fuel and crank the engine. Could save loads of time and hassle. Love the work you do, easily best on youtube in my opinion.
Interesting - if anyone wants to chip in I will get one
Does not work with Mechanical Injector pumps
@@BritannicaRestorations Thats a real shame, thanks for the info.
Elring gasket , mine has that and works perfectly fine
The metal shim gaskets are the way to go on Tdi - never had one blow
@@BritannicaRestorations after seeing the video , believe me im a little afraid of that gasket , usually that came on a set of gaskets with the brand bearmach or britpart
@@BritannicaRestorations do you have an specific store ?
G'Day Mike.
Mate you sure can pick em! What did you put in the add....."Challenge wanted from your old beat up Landy! No bolt or nut left unturned!" :D
Just keep thinking "Grenadier Deposit".
Take care matety. :)
Trying to make strawberry jam outta shit, as my old man always said.
Never advertised in 20 years - but they find their way here
@@BritannicaRestorations.Quite often on a trailer ,then uncle Mike works his magic and they drive away . (Just wanted to finish the sentence)
Land Rover- - keeping tow truck drivers in full employment!
Thanks!
Thanks!
1:20 Wow. Never thought of that method, Mike. Works though.
They need a good soaking first
I believe Charles Hawtry was maintaining this defender before you got it😂
Hi Mike, can you suggest quality head gasket for my 200tdi, cheers & all the best.
The part number for the original 200 and 300 Tdi was the same but when they introduced the metal gasket they changed numbers - they said they are interchangeable but not on a 200 Tdi - you will get oil leak as the metal gasket is not made the same so you are stuck with OEM which is probably Elring
You said that head was only fitted 8 months ago?
I bet whoever fitted that head KNEW it was was warped and that's why they fitted a thick head gasket AND why they fitted a "soft" composite gasket rather than a metal one.
Shame there isn't the same tradition of diesel LRs in the colonies as we have in the UK.
In the UK I could have a bare "known good" 300tdi head in the post today for 120 quid.
It'd be a bit of a "bodge" but, if it was mine AND I couldn't get a replacement head easily, I'd think about grinding wider shoulders onto the valves (which I could do myself) so they could sit .010" deeper in the head.
I'd also be willing to have a go at stoning those rockers too, rather than replacing them, if it was mine.
I guess this kind of shows how costs ramp up when you're paying somebody to do work they have to warranty rather than just pottering about with your own vehicle.
Absolutely understand why you'd be unwilling to "bodge" it but, to me, that looks like it'd be salvageable for a competent DIYer.
Wait until you see the primitive ( yet visual) diesel in the cylinders!
@@BritannicaRestorations :-D
Well, to be pedantic, I only said the *head* might be salvageable.
I didn't say anything about the engine, as a whole. :-P
I sometimes wonder, as a professional mechanic, do you find it easy to tell people that their pride & joy is knackered?
Does it get harder or easier as the years go by?
Especially cos I like LRs, I'd probably go out of business as a result of constantly trying to help customers out when I should really be telling them to buy new parts.
I think we are in the same boat - blown their budget on a car of their dreams - only for it to turn into a nightmare
Yes i have a hard time saying no, but over here who else will fix them?
I am going to have to price my way out of these jobs - I am no longer in my happy space now as the yard is full of vehicles needing major work
One of the white 110's desperately needs a bulkhead - I quoted C$10,000 supply and fit - if you work out the parts, painting and fitting ( not like fitting a door) then it is not far off considering everything is imported - and that is not including a wiring harness which as you saw was shockingly bad ( pardon the pun!)
I wish I had a couple of Tdi engines here that I could have on hand for straight swaps - would speed jobs up a bit!
Mike .My two pennyworth on this ,entirely down to the owner to make / take a gamble on this . another cheapo chineesium head, and you will most likely have the same problem. Compare cost of decent new head against the work and labour to skim this head , and valve seats re cut deeper , obviously some will also come off the valve head mating surface when they are machined.
, Also injector protrusion, something not many consider and it does affect the combustion burn , probably not enough in this instance to be a problem .I seem to recall L/R stating that was the reason why heads were not to be resurfaced , but this was updated years ago.
Rocker arm faces can be reground as the hardness is reasonably deep but If it's really bad replace it . Wishing you all the best making this pig of a L/R. better.
AMC heads are a lot better than these
so why can't you fit washers under the head bolts? very interesting , I will look at my 300TDI I took out after overheating.
The washers are integral with the bolts
Did you do any video on the fitting of the isuzu ?? If it is a user friendly modification I would consider one myself.
Pre RUclips days
With a 15 psi pressure cap and 50/50 glycol it will boil at 129 degrees Celsius
..
but with no coolant?
@@BritannicaRestorations Aluminium melts at 660 C.... ;-)
@@BritannicaRestorations Water turns to steam at 1BAR holding pressure at 120 deg C (steam tables), steam is very erosive any leaks to atmospheric pressure or to a lower pressure environment and it will automatically flash off.
hello mike , signs of circus clown activity on this head.!customer will have to reach as far as the titanic to pay for this repair .good times with my old series 2a in 1969, none of these problems,
Getting too familiar now - no maintenance in years, break down and then a massive bill!
Simple cure is to fit a decent secondhand engine.
Here's the issue - finding one In Canada!
Britannica Restorations Ltd What about doing a conversion with another engine ?
It's just not worth it when there's that many issue's going on. Find a better head or better yet engine given the missing caps and sludge.
If I were in the UK I would swap the motor, but over here options are limited
@@BritannicaRestorations You know I keep forgetting you're not falling over engines. To be fair the prices are going up here. Especially since lock down when folks starting fixing long term issues and finding horrors left right and centre!
Stupid question, but is it feasible to shave the head then fit a hand made copper gasket? I guess that would add a third metal to expand and contract and would probably cost a fair few Reddies to make in terms of labour. It wouldn't carry a warranty, either. I've answered my own question.
I think it would be cheaper to get a new head! Lol!
@@BritannicaRestorations I saw Alan Millyard do one for his five cylinder Kawasaki, but I think it took a day to do it.
You've scared me....filled the expansion tank with neat anti-corrisive, engine oil topped up with the right diesel formula ......rhat engine is just plain neglected ....
Easy to answer. You work to the customers instructions, their decision not yours.
Totally! I am not paying for this!
If it was mine I would sand blast head then treat with a quality gasket sealer then torque down from the centre out >> Next heat head with propane to water boiling point then once cool torque again & repeat >> Rockers lap down true Reason for using alloy for the head it stays cooler
Mike with all the accumulation of scrap at your place could end up in China who in turn make more cylinder heads which prematurely fail end up on the scrap which end up.....ah I think you get the laughable message 👍 great vlog all the same
Thanks for the tip
👍👍
Looks like a elring gasket but who knows
Is it worth spending any money on this engine that previous “mechanics” have assembled with a Chinese head and missing valve caps?
If the owner intends to keep this Land Rover it would be better to fit a genuine replacement engine otherwise I expect a long future of endless engine problems.
I think a genuine replacement engine would cost more than the vehicle!
👍
Throw that in the scrap metal bin. Tell the customer to buy a new OEM spec head.
Alas, this is a real budget job and is going to be skimmed - customer requested
@@BritannicaRestorations The machining cost and your labour must be on par with a new head.
G wagon is a Mercedes lol do you get any Td5's in your garage 🤔
Yes it was a joke!
Must have been done by a REME squaddie.......bodge it and scarper!
Buy cheap pay twice! Typical Chinese knock offs......not even worth being a paper weight.