I agree, We need to have meaningful things to fight over. As much as we all like to PVP, the greatest driver to have new orgs and people playing the game is meaningful progression and concequences. Thanks for the high praise, all credit goes to the team I play with. I'm glad that teamwork is now meta 😂. Looking forward to fighting with and against both of you in the years to come!
I like master modes because I can see fights eventually boiling down not to who has the best pilots, but who had the best battle plan. Who planned for Polaris or mantis flanking maneuvers? Who knew to have a group of hornets attack from the rear? Who picked the place and time of attack? Who baited the other into a bad position? Master modes makes this possible because no ace pilot will ever want to be caught out alone without a team
Agreed, really enjoy MM for this reason. Tried to listen to the MM topic section four times, but didn't hear any actual tweaks CIG should make besides "make it deeper, and better!" Yeah but... how? Weird how much they made fun of CIG while talking like this. Maybe I'm not the target audience for this video, but I could not understand most of what they were saying or trying to suggest
I don't understand what Battle pan... I've searched for advanced battle plan techniques that involve diversity of star citizen ships from small fighter up to big carack but I havent found any strategical PvP battles... so Honestly I have 0 clue what are people talking about here... some kind of gameplay that i've never seen... are you all making it up and talking about posible future or do you experiencing such a battles... and if yes please let me know where can I find those battle strategies so I can learn more about MM
Time sinks are bad, so swap them out for credit sinks Your want to respawn at the nearest space station for example. It's going to mean you're back to your body in 5 minutes. Gonna cost you 50k as it's not your main spawn, 2 birds 1 stone. Insurance on your components too, I could buy a bunch of components and have them stored, but my ship's insurance is at my spawn or home hanger. Have a new one delivered to the station above... Gonna cost you 100k and it's a Ship Hull. Ship hulls should come with crappy powerplant and QT drive and that's it. Flyable, but stripped to nothing. If you're in a battle, you can set up work orders to get ship weapons and components hauled to you, with extra bonus money for speedy delivery. So many loops and money sinks
Some really good takes in this video. What I would love for CIG to do is to remove some or decrease the S-level of hard-points on the F7 and F8, it's ridiculous how powerful these two are. Slowing them down is bad and does not help much in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure the idea of going to prison from pryo is if a bounty hunter with you as their target does catch you ( "subdue") - you go to kelscher. That makes a tiny amount of sense - if you carry a bounty in stanton and manage to leave, should be able to be brought in if a hunter does manage to catch you. Problem is you can't get to pyro without transient gates if you have cs3. So you'll be in pyro without a crime stat lingering anyhow
PVP and PVE need an Overlap. Give Rewards based on if you are flagged for PVE, or PVP. Different Mechanics for PVE vs PVE. Example - PVE can call in PVE forces based on area and faction. PVP if successful at besting the PVE battle gets PVP rewards like Gear and PVP Faction. PVE can not get those rewards because they are flagged for PVE. In Short. Find a way to Mix PVP and PVE together with less downsides for a PVE loss, and more rewards for a PVP win.
Wanna add a bit to the conversation by making some points that isn’t just “yaaas bro, toats agrees”. 1.) PvP v. PvE: In Eve the common understanding is that by logging in you consent to PvP. There is no PvE or PvP players. There’s predators and prey. Even if you’re a market guy, you’re still engaging in PvP. 2.) Insurance: Absolutely disagree that you should get your components back with insurance. I would break it down as such; -Basic: This is what you get with LTI or whatever store purchase insurance. You get the ship back with no components. -Covered: You get your ship back and the basic components they are sold with. -Premium: You get your ship and basic components back as well as X% of the market price of upgrades. Contraband upgrades are not covered at all (and should be the best items in the game). We need people constantly re-upping on components in order for the market to have meaning. You can get your shit back by going back to the wreckage, pulling out the busted components, repairing them at the expense of total durability (similar to Tarkov repair) FPS gear and ships not purchased from the pledge store or from an in dealer cannot be insured. 3.) Stream sniping: Should not be monitored or enforced. It sucks but it’s on you to share your screen to the world. Last thing we need is every accusation from high profile streamers to be investigated. A lot of the time, they’re just mad they died. This has been a long standing thing that happens. From the beginning this was obviously a bad stream game and a much better RUclips game. Lastly: Pax is bitch made and Grit both thinks and sounds like a 14 year old.
14:50 in 4.0 I definetly set my home location somewhere in pyro and start in Cutter Rambler as solo player to have some sort of true space survival experence.
If I remember correctly prison was mentioned only for the area around the first space station at the Pyro Jumppoint. That one is under UEE control and has a monitored zone. Everything else is ffa. I believe if they just hand us an empty system with base building and some high value loot this game could become the first successful pvp mmo. The main reason why pvp mmos fail is that there are better alternatives. Why play a shitty 20 year old game with tab targeting when you can play a semi mmo like Rust, Ark, DayZ or a dedicated pvp game like CS with better mechanics instead? But SC is a shooter and could basically have a Rust/Ark/DayZ MMO system. I see a huge potential playerbase for that.
Everything boils down to there is no economy. With no economy, there can be no meaningful gameplay loops. For all of EVE's faults, it got the PVP/PVE balance right. The PVP'ers are absolutely dependent on PVE gameplay loops and PVE'ers to support their fighting. You may win a couple battles, but you will run out of ships without the PVE loops. And without the PVP'ers, the PVE'ers are at the mercy of other players. There is a symbiosis between both groups. SC has nothing that bring these groups together.
Yep. Give us some material that pve really wants to use in crafting in null and let us pvp fight over it. Let us build bases to defend these resources and attack. I cant wait for the day im helping guard a large fleet of hull Es and like SM attacks it for that huge battle.
I like watching you guys. Seems like you're a realistic group of players who aren't afraid to at least discuss it. I was in an org. for ages that seemingly couldn't handle hearing any opinions that didn't align with just how they want the game to be. As a long time Eve Online PVP player, I tried preparing them for the kind of PVP'er they will see in the game when it releases and really all I got was HATE from many of them because of it. I really don't see much point in spending a lot of time training in SC right now because, imho, it will change a dozen more times before there is enough game there to retain players. I see so many people complaining about PVP in SC that I fear the game will just implode on itself when the REALITY OF PVP comes to the game. Death of a spaceman will be hilarious, imo, because most PVP players I know are less interested or motivated by BASES, big luxury ships, etc. and a lot more motivated by explosions and tears in local. I can see cases where PVP'ers will repeated kill others, just to laugh and snicker when they walk by dragging their bad leg and looking out of the corner of their dead eye because of dying so many times. I feel like that's the honest truth of what's coming to SC.. but if you try and inform people that it's coming, a select group of them will gladly shoot the messenger. LOL
I'm still new to SC coming from DCS and been feeding off of youtube learning. What happened to all the good PvP orgs I hear about. Mostly Harmless, Liberty Reapers, and Skunkworks seemed to be solid based on some videos I saw. Still good to join or bad?
I would compare this to games like cod. The high skill cieling is that constant unending movement. Many of us have played those games for years and I don't want to break my wrist playing SC like any competitive shooter. Then you take games like tarkov where the skill cieling is positioning, tactics, and pre-planned choices and you see the cod players cry about the game and say it's terrible. Both are high end ceilings and I have played competitively in both but the difference is in a tarkov kind of game is it is way less stressful to play on a daily basis. If I go back to cod style games I will legit strain my wrist and arm and have to physically time time off to heal until my body can handle that constanr rapid movement again. And balancing ships low ttk is about the only way to make all ships or funs viable but people will complain about not being able to win fights. They don't win because the choices you made 10 mins ago lead to you dying.
I think it’s funny, the elitism. PvP for me is all about fun. I really enjoy meeting someone on level ground. This dude just likes killing Care Bears. Not my cup of tea. I am 100% sure they wouldn’t see my org as PvP and that’s ok. We have our fun.
Pyro is medium protection. And it's where pirates will set up base. No sense making a pure pvp zone because it will cut off pve players from any extra content. The next system will be open season. High end pve and high end pvp players in games are an endless void of wanting that will siphon the health out of evwrytbing else. The base pirate event is fighting over the big hauls other people make organically but no one right now is making much organic content. Pvp players could fight right now if they wanted but they don't. Pvp players only care about owning something of high value in games or taking from everyone else. That's a hard balance to have especially in an alpha. Where you need a balance of players from different roles to test
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I agree, We need to have meaningful things to fight over. As much as we all like to PVP, the greatest driver to have new orgs and people playing the game is meaningful progression and concequences.
Thanks for the high praise, all credit goes to the team I play with.
I'm glad that teamwork is now meta 😂.
Looking forward to fighting with and against both of you in the years to come!
I like master modes because I can see fights eventually boiling down not to who has the best pilots, but who had the best battle plan. Who planned for Polaris or mantis flanking maneuvers? Who knew to have a group of hornets attack from the rear? Who picked the place and time of attack? Who baited the other into a bad position?
Master modes makes this possible because no ace pilot will ever want to be caught out alone without a team
I feel the same way, I think it has much further to grow but it’s given aspects of the game we never had. It’s a great framework
Agreed, really enjoy MM for this reason. Tried to listen to the MM topic section four times, but didn't hear any actual tweaks CIG should make besides "make it deeper, and better!" Yeah but... how? Weird how much they made fun of CIG while talking like this.
Maybe I'm not the target audience for this video, but I could not understand most of what they were saying or trying to suggest
I don't understand what Battle pan... I've searched for advanced battle plan techniques that involve diversity of star citizen ships from small fighter up to big carack but I havent found any strategical PvP battles... so Honestly I have 0 clue what are people talking about here... some kind of gameplay that i've never seen... are you all making it up and talking about posible future or do you experiencing such a battles... and if yes please let me know where can I find those battle strategies so I can learn more about MM
I like Mastermodes because it's allows them to contextualise the HUD and me to have more bind options.
Great video, guys.
There will always be a best ship.
Sup River, nice video
All based
Hey Virg!!
I can confirm that if you attack someone in the hangar, you will get banned.
IIRC You get sent to Klescher if your caught in the armistice zone surrounding the Pyro -> Stanton jump point.
Ok that makes sense! Thank you!
Live: twitch.tv/ver9jl // Join ver9JL discord for more content: discord.gg/vzABq6AUVd // Join the Shadow Moses (SC Organization) discord: discord.gg/shadowmoses
Time sinks are bad, so swap them out for credit sinks
Your want to respawn at the nearest space station for example. It's going to mean you're back to your body in 5 minutes. Gonna cost you 50k as it's not your main spawn, 2 birds 1 stone.
Insurance on your components too, I could buy a bunch of components and have them stored, but my ship's insurance is at my spawn or home hanger. Have a new one delivered to the station above... Gonna cost you 100k and it's a Ship Hull.
Ship hulls should come with crappy powerplant and QT drive and that's it. Flyable, but stripped to nothing. If you're in a battle, you can set up work orders to get ship weapons and components hauled to you, with extra bonus money for speedy delivery.
So many loops and money sinks
Some really good takes in this video. What I would love for CIG to do is to remove some or decrease the S-level of hard-points on the F7 and F8, it's ridiculous how powerful these two are. Slowing them down is bad and does not help much in my opinion.
EXACTLY. I hate that the only answer ever is to just keep slowing down these otherwise great ships
Just starting the video, this should be good.
Pvp guys want those pve loops nearby too. It's good pyro will have all that stuff
I'm pretty sure the idea of going to prison from pryo is if a bounty hunter with you as their target does catch you ( "subdue") - you go to kelscher.
That makes a tiny amount of sense - if you carry a bounty in stanton and manage to leave, should be able to be brought in if a hunter does manage to catch you.
Problem is you can't get to pyro without transient gates if you have cs3. So you'll be in pyro without a crime stat lingering anyhow
PVP and PVE need an Overlap.
Give Rewards based on if you are flagged for PVE, or PVP.
Different Mechanics for PVE vs PVE. Example - PVE can call in PVE forces based on area and faction.
PVP if successful at besting the PVE battle gets PVP rewards like Gear and PVP Faction. PVE can not get those rewards because they are flagged for PVE.
In Short. Find a way to Mix PVP and PVE together with less downsides for a PVE loss, and more rewards for a PVP win.
Wanna add a bit to the conversation by making some points that isn’t just “yaaas bro, toats agrees”.
1.) PvP v. PvE: In Eve the common understanding is that by logging in you consent to PvP. There is no PvE or PvP players. There’s predators and prey. Even if you’re a market guy, you’re still engaging in PvP.
2.) Insurance: Absolutely disagree that you should get your components back with insurance. I would break it down as such;
-Basic: This is what you get with LTI or whatever store purchase insurance. You get the ship back with no components.
-Covered: You get your ship back and the basic components they are sold with.
-Premium: You get your ship and basic components back as well as X% of the market price of upgrades. Contraband upgrades are not covered at all (and should be the best items in the game).
We need people constantly re-upping on components in order for the market to have meaning. You can get your shit back by going back to the wreckage, pulling out the busted components, repairing them at the expense of total durability (similar to Tarkov repair)
FPS gear and ships not purchased from the pledge store or from an in dealer cannot be insured.
3.) Stream sniping: Should not be monitored or enforced. It sucks but it’s on you to share your screen to the world. Last thing we need is every accusation from high profile streamers to be investigated. A lot of the time, they’re just mad they died. This has been a long standing thing that happens. From the beginning this was obviously a bad stream game and a much better RUclips game.
Lastly: Pax is bitch made and Grit both thinks and sounds like a 14 year old.
14:50 in 4.0 I definetly set my home location somewhere in pyro and start in Cutter Rambler as solo player to have some sort of true space survival experence.
If I remember correctly prison was mentioned only for the area around the first space station at the Pyro Jumppoint. That one is under UEE control and has a monitored zone. Everything else is ffa.
I believe if they just hand us an empty system with base building and some high value loot this game could become the first successful pvp mmo. The main reason why pvp mmos fail is that there are better alternatives. Why play a shitty 20 year old game with tab targeting when you can play a semi mmo like Rust, Ark, DayZ or a dedicated pvp game like CS with better mechanics instead? But SC is a shooter and could basically have a Rust/Ark/DayZ MMO system. I see a huge potential playerbase for that.
Everything boils down to there is no economy. With no economy, there can be no meaningful gameplay loops. For all of EVE's faults, it got the PVP/PVE balance right. The PVP'ers are absolutely dependent on PVE gameplay loops and PVE'ers to support their fighting. You may win a couple battles, but you will run out of ships without the PVE loops. And without the PVP'ers, the PVE'ers are at the mercy of other players. There is a symbiosis between both groups. SC has nothing that bring these groups together.
Yep. Give us some material that pve really wants to use in crafting in null and let us pvp fight over it. Let us build bases to defend these resources and attack. I cant wait for the day im helping guard a large fleet of hull Es and like SM attacks it for that huge battle.
edging to this
I like watching you guys. Seems like you're a realistic group of players who aren't afraid to at least discuss it. I was in an org. for ages that seemingly couldn't handle hearing any opinions that didn't align with just how they want the game to be. As a long time Eve Online PVP player, I tried preparing them for the kind of PVP'er they will see in the game when it releases and really all I got was HATE from many of them because of it. I really don't see much point in spending a lot of time training in SC right now because, imho, it will change a dozen more times before there is enough game there to retain players. I see so many people complaining about PVP in SC that I fear the game will just implode on itself when the REALITY OF PVP comes to the game. Death of a spaceman will be hilarious, imo, because most PVP players I know are less interested or motivated by BASES, big luxury ships, etc. and a lot more motivated by explosions and tears in local. I can see cases where PVP'ers will repeated kill others, just to laugh and snicker when they walk by dragging their bad leg and looking out of the corner of their dead eye because of dying so many times. I feel like that's the honest truth of what's coming to SC.. but if you try and inform people that it's coming, a select group of them will gladly shoot the messenger. LOL
I'm still new to SC coming from DCS and been feeding off of youtube learning. What happened to all the good PvP orgs I hear about. Mostly Harmless, Liberty Reapers, and Skunkworks seemed to be solid based on some videos I saw. Still good to join or bad?
LR yes.skunk works...hell no.😂
I would compare this to games like cod. The high skill cieling is that constant unending movement. Many of us have played those games for years and I don't want to break my wrist playing SC like any competitive shooter. Then you take games like tarkov where the skill cieling is positioning, tactics, and pre-planned choices and you see the cod players cry about the game and say it's terrible. Both are high end ceilings and I have played competitively in both but the difference is in a tarkov kind of game is it is way less stressful to play on a daily basis. If I go back to cod style games I will legit strain my wrist and arm and have to physically time time off to heal until my body can handle that constanr rapid movement again.
And balancing ships low ttk is about the only way to make all ships or funs viable but people will complain about not being able to win fights. They don't win because the choices you made 10 mins ago lead to you dying.
I think it’s funny, the elitism. PvP for me is all about fun. I really enjoy meeting someone on level ground. This dude just likes killing Care Bears. Not my cup of tea. I am 100% sure they wouldn’t see my org as PvP and that’s ok. We have our fun.
Pyro is medium protection. And it's where pirates will set up base. No sense making a pure pvp zone because it will cut off pve players from any extra content. The next system will be open season. High end pve and high end pvp players in games are an endless void of wanting that will siphon the health out of evwrytbing else. The base pirate event is fighting over the big hauls other people make organically but no one right now is making much organic content. Pvp players could fight right now if they wanted but they don't. Pvp players only care about owning something of high value in games or taking from everyone else. That's a hard balance to have especially in an alpha. Where you need a balance of players from different roles to test