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Moses Malone was a monster and for the majority of the time from the 70’s to 80’s outplayed Kareem. He use to work a young Hakeem before he got out of his prime. In Houston Moses best teammate was Hakeem’s coach Rudy Tomjanovich lol. When he got to Philly, he won a title with Dr J but by 1985 Dr J was well out of his prime. Moses has 3 MVPs to Jokic 3. Moses has a FMVP so does Jokic. Moses was a better rebounder and a defender. Jokic is the better playmaker. I think scoring is about even. Not sure why Moses is overlooked so much.
Moses Malone no touch vs Goat touch and scoring is even 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭, even though Moses can’t score outside the paint, Jokic is clearly the better rebounder. Once again you’re comparing a goat passer to a guy who couldn’t pass at all.
Jokic vs Malone in Passing is the single biggest gap in one category of 2 players that are being compared and ranked against each other at the same position
Wish Swipa would have tried to formulate a clear logical argument for Jokic over Moses cause he easily could have. Cause Jokic is easily better. But instead he went for theatrics and got to yelling which then got Chill worked up and spitting narrative bs about Jokic. Give it a couple weeks and I guarantee Chill will walk back what he said about Jokic having “one of the most epic collapses” in the playoffs which just isn’t even remotely true.
47:05 Dwight Howard did NOT want to be a Roll Man to Nash, Nash even said this on the record..He was constantly barking for Post Touches while being the least efficient Post Player in the NBA for the Lakers.
@@birdo9039a lot of the offenses ran thru the big just not from the perimeter like jokic does and just out the post, that’s a cop out they were not as good passers or playmaker as jokic there were a lot of bigs who had the offense ran thru them
Nikola Jokic Scoring: 8.5+ overall (very good volume 20+ppg and elite efficiency) Playmaking: 9+ overall (lacks great ball handles but great at passing, manipulation, gravity & off ball creation) Defense: 6+ overall (despite not being good, he’s not a negative defender and rebounds hella well) Moses Malone Scoring: 8.5+ overall (great volume and very good efficiency) Playmaking: 4+ overall (lacks any passing ability , ball handles, only off ball creates with inside post gravity) Defense: 8+ overall (solid rim protector, great post presence, elite rebounder, lacks perimeter/full court defense, but as a big man, he did well vs Kareem, Walton and Parish in his battles)
@@nykareem2001 every defensive metric would say otherwise… even film, he’s not even that close to being a negative defender for the majority of his career… not saying he’s good either…
Ron really cooked with the Wilt Chamberlain MVP convos… especially being a 7x 1st team vs Bill being 3x 1st team but somehow the league voted Bill more times as MVP than Wilt
Stats solely don’t measure a players impact. Think about what I wrote, this isn’t to take away the stats but to contextualize them. Playing with someone who didn’t pass and was a bad teammate should play a part when we talk about players and their legacy.
@@howitzdone8992 he played more TOTAL games than the APG leader ( I believe it was Oscar Robertson) while only averaging 1 or 2 less assist, making him the leader in total assist that year...usually the TOTAL assist guy is the APG leader as well. But that wasn't the case this year
You gotta seperate the lists as far as who was the best at their peak, 100% healthy, who had the best career, and a list that includes how good a player was relative to his Era. I would have 3 totally different lists. For example I’m definitely going Embiid over Robinson if you’re talking peak, fully healthy…. I’d maybe even consider him top 3.
Relative to era favors previous era's bc it's easier to dominate a sport when there is less competition. The number of elite athletes near their prime attempting to become pro NBA players has been way more during these players careers in comparison to 80s and 90s players.
@@rlh12345 That’s a fair point. But you can’t discount all the sports science, strength n conditioning, and skills training that is available today. My example was if Wilt had that stuff available to him back in his era his game would look quite different…. I think he would be much more versatile. I don’t think Larry Bird was the first 6’9-6’10 human ever born that could be a lethal shooter and good ball handler. The big guys just were never told to practice those skills back then. I’m sure the coaches told them to get their asses right by the basket where they belong. And better competition creates better players. Say if Wilt wasn’t so dominant and had better competition it would have forced him to work on the weaknesses in his game.
@@gmoney8399 Big guys weren't taught to shoot free throws? Throughout most of his career he was shooting 11+ free throws a game and only shot 51% from the line. Free throw shooting has always been important. Other skills they may not have. Wilt not winning championships didn't drive him to work on his game?
@@rlh12345 It did…. but I think he was probably in the dark on how to “improve” his game since he was virtually unstoppable. You know, averaging 50, 30, and lead the league in assists during part of his career. Bill Russell was really the only guy who could hold him to under 40 lol. The main critique of his game early on was his passing. Shortly after he lead the league in assists. And I guarantee his FT% would have been much better today if they had specialized shooting coaches and sports psychologists back then. His coaches and teammates even said he was probably around 90% from the line in practice despite having unorthodox shooting mechanics…. but he would really get in his head during actual games. Seems like a specialized shooting coach and a sports psychologist would have done wonders for that weakness in his game. But also working with a ball handling coach and someone to deepen his post up bag I’m sure would’ve significantly enhanced those skills. But at the time there wasn’t much of a point considering his limited offensive game was virtually unstoppable. Kids these days work with specialized coaches like that as early as middle school lol. He was the first player to really implement strength training obviously… the guy was 7’1 310 and straight jacked. But he just worked out with Arnold and body builders. Adds a ton of muscle…. but not basketball specific in regard to lifts that enhance explosiveness and agility. So I still stand on my point. You’ve got to agree with that to “some” extent.
1:50:57 All Ron did was read the box score. Ignoring the statpadding and horrible teammate confession because he put up 50 is nasty work. It was empty, it didn't lead to winning. It wasn't until Wilt became a team player that he started seeing real results. And what people won't acknowledge is that Wilt was a playoff dropper, Bill Russell was a playoff riser. There isn't a single year where Wilts postseason production increases. It either stays relative with worse efficiency or drops significantly. Meanwhile Bill is undefeated in game 7's, his ppg goes up, his assists go up. Bill's impact is heavily felt. I don't see how Wilt, Shaq, or Hakeem can be ahead of Bill.
I think you could argue Embiid is a better regular season player but I think Ewing is definitely better if you include playoffs and playoffs are what matters most imo
1. Bill Russell 2. Wilt Chamberlain 3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar 4. Hakeem Olajuwon 5. Shaquille O'Neal 6. David Robinson 7. Moses Malone 8. Patrick Ewing 9. Nikola Jokic 10. Dwight Howard
Demar kept it all the way a buck. People overhype that Kawhi Ring with Toronto so damn much. Y’all act like the raptors were not knocking on the door bro, the same way some players would have wings without MJ dominating the same could be said about Bron. Yall capping
Im a Raptors fan. You're the one capping. They replaced one of the worst pmayoff performers ever in demar with one of the best playoff performers ever in kawhi. Thats the difference. They dont get past the second round vs the sixers with demar. They BARELY did with kawhi who as mentioned is leagues better in the playoffs and absolutely carried the Raptors in that series. Just use your logic.
@@MarzTalksSports yeah but I’m not mad at jokic at 6th bc I do think he will pass Moses. He’s knocking on the door. Just need to see a couple more. If jokic retired today saying Moses > jokic isn’t crazy to me
This might sound crazy but if some omniscient being told me if healthy Joel Embiid is actually the best center ever peak for peak. And referred to what he was in 2023/2024 before his knee injury this wouldn’t chock me. I genuinely don’t know what to do with that season.
The problem is that it didn’t last. He gets hurt too often. Maybe best 35 game regular season stretch. But at that point the sample size is just small for regular season play
@@howitzdone8992 I think Kareem and Shaq are in a tier of their own but I can't discount Kareem's scoring prowess in the playoffs that year (he's probably the most efficient and most versatile post scorer on film) mixed in being a slightly better passer than Shaq especially on an injured team.
Ion know wilt has 2 rings and FMVP I think, and has as many if not more mvp’s than joker, and has a ton of records and stats that joker hasn’t gotten to yet, I think if joker wins a few more mvps and 1 more ring and fmvp ir could be over wilt
The issue with people like Swpa (and Marz) is that they vastly overrate the offensive impact Jokic is having on a basketball court and understate how much energy the Nuggets expend trying to cover for his severe deficiencies as a rim protector (especially in the playoffs). Jokic is not the offensive player that Nash, Bron, MJ, Magic or even Curry was. He's never led a +8, +10, or +15 offense in the playoffs even though all the other names I mentioned did (with injured, health, good and bad teams) several times. The box score inflates how good Jokic and Embiid actually are.
@@dewanewelch1744 I didn’t read anything pass the first statement so if he does idk if u say that abt jokic u have to Also say that abt Steph Nash and magic 😂 does that change how good they are on offense 😂
@@howitzdone8992 I'm not saying that it changes how good Jokic is on offense. I'm saying that regardless of if Jokic is a great defender or not, he's not a GOAT tier offensive player where we can just ignore how bad he is on defense.
Shaq out played Hakeem in the playoffs in 99. People overrate Hakeem legacy. Hakeem quit on his team and didn't advance to the second round in 5 years.
Shaq has the record for being swept the most times, shaq didnt win anything without kobe and wade, shaq got swept by hakeem in the finals Both jokic and hakeem clear
In My Humble Opinion, Wemby is Not gonna Meet the Goat Expectations, he will NEVER B’ in those Conversations!…But I do Think he’ll B’ an ALL-Time Great!…I Think he Ends his Career in the Patrick Ewing Conversation, Ranked Anywhere from 34-44 ALL-Time!…I Think he Ends with 1, Maybe 2 Championships but as the #2 on the Team!…Much Like Tony Parker was to Duncan!…
@@rlh12345 ONLY the Top 3 Greatest Ever are in the Goat Conversation!…Top 5 & Top 10 are Considered the Greatest Players EVER!…And Top Up to the Top 75 are ALL-Time Greats, the List will B’ Expanded when they Introduce the Top 100 Ever!…
@@GSR-Indictment Outside of injury I can't see him not finishing his career as a top 20 player all time. I'm guessing, given good health, he finishes as a top 5 player all time. I think he has the work ethic to pull it off.
@@rlh12345 I don’t See that at ALL!…He NEVER Gonna B’ Strong Enough to Play Down Low, I don’t See his Mid Range Improving to where it’s an Elite Shot!…Without the Strength he also can’t Guard the Post!…To Me he’ll Still put Up Maybe 26 & 10 with 3 Blocks, but that’s Mostly Based on the Inflation of Numbers in Todays Game!…I Think he’ll B’ a Number 2 at his Best & get 1 Maybe 2 Chips!…NEVER Coming Close to Being a Top Player!…He’s A.D. with Better Health in My Opinion!…
I think that greaest is different to best, Imo Mikan is in the top 10 greatest ever because of how good he was compared to those of his time but not top 10 best
@@MarzTalksSports I do think he was in the NBA. Moses automatically became the best player on the sixers when he got there and was considered better the couple years before that too. He was The Guy.
The way Chill picks and chooses which arguments to use for who he likes plus the fact he will deliberately ignore what a player has done to make an argument for his guy is nasty. Chill so biased and inconsistent he approaching ticket levels of nasty. Bring back LOW Fluent and Dub
The argument for Hakeem over Shaq would have to be "they're close offensively and Hakeem is miles better defensively so it's Hakeem". That's such a weak argument because you could use it when comparing Steph to somebody like Kawhi. Shaq clears offensively. Shaq peaked WAY higher than Hakeem, not to mention Shaq has better longevity than Hakeem. Shaq is a better scorer, passer, playmaker, and rebounder than Hakeem. You'd really have to believe the defense is the separator, and that's not enough imo.
Centers get way more value out of being a great defender than guards do. Particularly during those two's era's where the game was less perimeter oriented. It's fair to go either direction with those two.
yes,i dont get it 'moses took a team below 500 to the finals' was moses not on the team while they were going below 500? like they went below 500 with him there why is that then being praised as overcoming something
Hakeem could not gaurd shaq either in that finals 😂 idk why ppl love to say Ben and Hakeem slowed him down Cuz he didn’t avg 30, Kobe was a double agent in 04,
Hate to be the “his offense is his defense” guy but whenever I look at that series I’ve always seen it more as Hakeem schooled Shaq on offense more than he did on defense. They both couldn’t handle each other but Hakeem was more calculated with his buckets and took advantage of Shaq’s deficiencies more. But no the narrative that Hakeem or Ben locked or slowed down Shaq is just not true.
@@aherbo18 lol for 04 people just look up his stats see that it was less than that of previous championship runs and assume it was ben slowing him down when in reality he had stepped up to his regular season self. Shaq in 04 was no longer in his peak and was declining. Even his playoff numbers aren't great so in reality he performed better in the finals than he had ever done the entire season
@@spaceship5786 yeah I think it’s a little bit of both simply cause I want to give Ben some credit. What Ben did great in that series was stop the ball at Shaq’s waist before he could bring it up near the rim. It was a lot of little stuff that affected Shaq and the entire team’s performance. Ben was an excellent communicator too so he limited open looks created by Shaq’s gravity. But in terms of 1v1 post defense, Shaq was still having his way with Ben, despite not being what he was just a few years prior to that.
@@davis2k1234 he only had 14 shots 😂 clown wat he do the next game? Ben could not gaurd shaq that’s not a knock nobody could, he did better than anybody not named Duncan and Hakeem
Swipa you underrate the value of the offensive rebound. Tenacious offensive rebounders provide extra floor spacing, constantly generate high efficiency offense, create foul problems, create high floor offenses by mitigating the effects of bad shooting nights and control tempo especially if said rebounder is a good transition passer. Moses is by far the greatest offensive rebounder ever while still converting over 50% of his two pointers. He has a case for being a better offensive player than Jokic.
Worse ball handler, worse interior scorer, worse peremiter scorer, worse playmaker, but offensive rebounding gives him a case to be a better offensive player?
Swipa capping if Murray keep going on the run he going on he going to be the Reggie miller of this era not in terms of looking like a regular all start in the regular season and turning in great level all star In the playoff when healthy but he do this boost jokic
I dont think anyone who saw jamal murray can question his ability, his problem is his health Murray robbed prime jokic of 3 years of contention because of his injuries 2021 2022 2024
People in the chat still using 50 win argument for jokic crazy how recency bias and winning bias deludes people just cuz someone's bias for somebody dont mean he wrong lol
Jokic is great but one of his mvps can be questionable and people sleep on Moses he was so strong and would give Jokic problems on the block because you can’t move him !!! 😮😮😮
The only questionable thing about jokic's mvps was that he got robbed of 4 straight mvps cuz of race agenda by fragile media personality +moses aint stopping jokic in 1v1 coverage
@@ggrlyggrly4476 Jokic got "robbed" bc he already won 2 straight and had no chips to show for it. He won the chip and was given the award again. Lebron was "robbed" in 2011. Don't get me wrong, the race narrative Perk put out there was BS, but Jokic wasn't going to get 3 in a row since he didn't have the championship yet.
Nah I’m afraid your knowledge on basketball history might be cooked my friend. 3 MVPS, a FMVP, one of the goat playoff runs, the goat offensive rebounder, good defender, top 5 player to come from HS, longevity, cooked Kareem damn near every a series they played, and drug a 40-42 team to the finals by beating the defending champions. Joker needs about 5 more prime years to surpass and Robinson has no chance.
@@victoralexander3767jokic got 3 mvps and got robbed of the 4th based on racist narratives Jokic also got finals mvp but jokic's run was far more dominant and impressive from individual numbers standpoint Jokic was the first and only player in nba history to lead all teams in points rebounds and assists in the post season Jokic is greatest offensive center of all time and he would a great defender if he had to play against plumbers and firemen with no 3 point line, camp in the paint and just shove any dude who comes close which is what they called defense
Bill Russell is a better passer than Wilt chamberlain nothing y’all could tell me to make me think otherwise, wilt is wat y’all think Westbrook is as a a ball hog
Wilt wasn't a ball hog. Lol. He legit got mad at his coach for not putting in a system to get other players shots. When he finally got a coach that made a system he won his first title BECAUSE he wanted to pass. Then they fired that coach and Wilt was pissed. That mostly lead to him wanted to be traded.
@@dewanewelch1744 Just Lying 😂 I watched him not pass guys the ball if he didn’t think he was gonna get an assist off the shot 😂 and then he became to passive and stop scoring tryna prove to ppl he could pass, literally said he wasn’t passing Chet the ball cuz he dribbles to much and he won’t get an assist
@@dewanewelch1744what I’m saying was said by his teammates u can look it up, and go watch how he played vs the Knicks he was refusing to shoot if it wasn’t a guarantee bucket
@@howitzdone8992 Kobe did that for a game also. That don't mean that is who he was. What I stated was said by Hal Geer, West, Baylor, Russell, Goodrich, and every coach other then his first coach.
Horrible. There’s no way Kareem should ever be over Wilt chamberlain, they played 4 years together so they’re numbers can be compared somewhat .theres NO DEBATE. Kareem did nothing better than wilt other than constantly shoot.. as far a player attributes Kareem does nothing better than wilt other than shoot the sky hook as wilt would say 😭Kareem played with the 2 greatest PG distributors. Literally the #1#2 all time assist leaders .. shaq and wilt did not have that. WILT and Shaq as players. Kareem if we talkin careers accolades. This is like putting Dirk over a luka on the greatest Mavs list.
@@MarzTalksSports I’m actually very aware of Artis Gilmore’s career and ability lol I’m not one of those “he played in a weak era he’s trash” guys. I do my research. He’s just not Jokic my guy. I wish he was, then my Bulls would have had a resurgence in the late 70s similar to 75. But he didn’t have that impact. Not in the NBA atleast. Very good talent though.
@@MarzTalksSports Yeahhhh I misheard you, I owe you an apology. And actually, I’ll even agree that Artis was a better talent than Moses. Only problem was that Artis didn’t get the memo that he was better than Moses. And everyone else outside of Kareem. Simply refused to dominate every night as a scorer eventhough nobody could stop him. Moses has to still get the edge mostly due to his history as a ceiling raiser and consistent high level of play against elite competition. But again, my bad fam.
Bill took an insane cut out of Chamberlains Scoring. In 61/62 he took 14 points and a 4-5% TS% dumb. And for career he took 4-5 points and 4-5% TS% drop out of Wilt. Bill Russell was easily the best man and off ball defender of his time.
Chl killed buddy in that mosses vs jokic debate. Once u brought up Bron and Jordan u already lost. Wtf did they have to die with the two centers at topic??
It only doesn't make sense if ur parents are siblings Chill tried to push jokic choker narrative cuz he lost with austin rivers, campazzo and monte despite putting up great numbers, swipa responded with the fact that Chill is on his knees defending lebron that he never chokes cuz of his numbers, so it's either Big numbers in losses = not choke Or Big numbers in losses = choke He can't say that when lebron fills the stat sheet it's his team's fault lebron did everything but then turn around and say when jokic puts up huge numbers in losses he choked and should have done more But most people dislike jokic so people will only listen to narratives that sht on jokic
That’s Cap!…Drexler wasn’t on the Team & Horry & Cassell were Both Bench Guys!…Cassell in his Rookie Year & Horry in his Sophomore Year!…Hakeem was the ONLY Star on the Roster!…Nick Anderson was Like a Starting Jordan Clarkson, Horace was a 2 Way All Star, Shaq was Top 3 in the League & Penny was Top 10!…Orlando Still got Swept!…
@@GSR-Indictment😂 don’t know what the fukk u talking about Clyde was on that team and horry and Ellie was the 3rd and 4th leading scorers on the team do your research b4 typing my guy
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big 2024 and we got moses malone over jokic
Old people so biased it's insane
Marz why you n Swipa back that old man into a corner like that😭😭😭
Moses Malone was a monster and for the majority of the time from the 70’s to 80’s outplayed Kareem. He use to work a young Hakeem before he got out of his prime. In Houston Moses best teammate was Hakeem’s coach Rudy Tomjanovich lol. When he got to Philly, he won a title with Dr J but by 1985 Dr J was well out of his prime. Moses has 3 MVPs to Jokic 3. Moses has a FMVP so does Jokic. Moses was a better rebounder and a defender. Jokic is the better playmaker. I think scoring is about even. Not sure why Moses is overlooked so much.
Moses Malone no touch vs Goat touch and scoring is even 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭, even though Moses can’t score outside the paint, Jokic is clearly the better rebounder. Once again you’re comparing a goat passer to a guy who couldn’t pass at all.
@@reubeno3393clearly a better rebounder is just a lie
Swipa has the whitest of white hat selections.
😭😭
ya us 🥷🏽's don't claim him. not invited to the cookout
@@juliovext999dont do dat.
Jokic vs Malone in Passing is the single biggest gap in one category of 2 players that are being compared and ranked against each other at the same position
Wish Swipa would have tried to formulate a clear logical argument for Jokic over Moses cause he easily could have. Cause Jokic is easily better. But instead he went for theatrics and got to yelling which then got Chill worked up and spitting narrative bs about Jokic. Give it a couple weeks and I guarantee Chill will walk back what he said about Jokic having “one of the most epic collapses” in the playoffs which just isn’t even remotely true.
47:05 Dwight Howard did NOT want to be a Roll Man to Nash, Nash even said this on the record..He was constantly barking for Post Touches while being the least efficient Post Player in the NBA for the Lakers.
@@blacknetsmed Facts. He just wanted to catch the ball on the block and have everyone clear out every time.
Chill at 4:00 talked about Moses in the worst ever passer conversation. Him not being able to remember what he said 1 hour later is crazy
THANKYOU
The elderly are forgetful
Swipa was too emotional to make a cogent argument for Jokic. Kinda sad because Jokic is clearly the better player.
Swipe be on here just tapping talking crazy 😂
Chill gettin old 🤣🤣🤣
lol I don’t need my C to average 10 assists, I need him to score, rebound at an elite level & be a good to great all around defender.
That’s the dumbest shit ever 😂
Avg 10 assist isn’t wat makes jokic that good on offense lol😂
I’m not saying that but swipa tryna compare who’s better at play making knowing the C’s back then wasn’t running the offense
@@birdo9039a lot of the offenses ran thru the big just not from the perimeter like jokic does and just out the post, that’s a cop out they were not as good passers or playmaker as jokic there were a lot of bigs who had the offense ran thru them
which team do you coach?
Ron killed me with the “another one of these guys better than Jokic” 🤣🤣🤣
Peak wilt isn’t the wilt Ron is referring to IMO
Chill: asks a question
Chill when someone tries to answer that question: “CAN I TALK FOR A SECOND?”
That Moses and Joker argument was great for my mental health
Chill was pissed off today 😂😂😂
Patrick Ewing had 13 years straight averaging 20 points
He's in my top 10 dude was a mon star
Willis reed was better than Ewing...he is the greatest Knicks center and it's not as close as they make it out to be
He is like james harden but without a mvp😂
Shaq definitely underachieved
1:02:34 “7.50” is crazy 😂😂😂 swiper funny for that
1-Hakeem
2-Shaq
3-Kareem
4-Jokic
5-Russell
6-Wilt
7-Malone
8-Robinson
9-Howard
10-Ewing/Mcadoo
Learn basketball scrub
Dwight got injured but I think he was always best off pick and rolls snd catching lobs. Trying to become a post scorer like Shaq didn't work.
Swipe is ticket 2.0 with over talking and interruptions by the way I love it dominating 💪🏿
Nah ticket us way more funny
Shoutout to chill for admitting he loss that argument.
They be doing chill wrong
Who
Nikola Jokic
Scoring: 8.5+ overall (very good volume 20+ppg and elite efficiency)
Playmaking: 9+ overall (lacks great ball handles but great at passing, manipulation, gravity & off ball creation)
Defense: 6+ overall (despite not being good, he’s not a negative defender and rebounds hella well)
Moses Malone
Scoring: 8.5+ overall (great volume and very good efficiency)
Playmaking: 4+ overall (lacks any passing ability , ball handles, only off ball creates with inside post gravity)
Defense: 8+ overall (solid rim protector, great post presence, elite rebounder, lacks perimeter/full court defense, but as a big man, he did well vs Kareem, Walton and Parish in his battles)
@@MOCskoden If u think jokic and Moses are the same lvl of scorer I seriously question what your watching 😂
scoring being the same is crazy and moses being a 4 as a playmaker is interesting id need to know whos a 1
Jokic is not a positive on defense
@@nykareem2001 every defensive metric would say otherwise… even film, he’s not even that close to being a negative defender for the majority of his career… not saying he’s good either…
@@MarzTalksSports the center on the bench majority of his career w/ some decent highlights prob could be that 1.0 playmaker 🤣
Don’t see wat y’all see in Moses,Drob and Jokic clear
@@howitzdone8992 3 mvps
@@MarzTalksSports seem like Nash the only guy who MVPs don’t do this For
Accolade merchants
@@howitzdone8992 crazy how that works
chat has for sure not seen moses play or they would slander him so hard but it's ok
W episode yall boys funny 😂
Ron really cooked with the Wilt Chamberlain MVP convos… especially being a 7x 1st team vs Bill being 3x 1st team but somehow the league voted Bill more times as MVP than Wilt
Willis reed was better than Ewing all around by far
media vs player voting
@@MarzTalksSports coaches: 💔
1 Kareem
2 Hakeem
3 Shaq
4 Bill
5 Jokic
6 Malone
7 Robinson
8 Ewing
9 Howard
10 Embiid
Per based on value,overall skillset,
impact,peak,and accolades.
Imo
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem
6. Jokic
7. Malone
8. Robinson
9. Ewing
10. Embiid
I wish the MJ and Lebron debate would be as respectful as the Hakeem and Shaq debate.
8:45 Wait what the hell?? 😂 am I hearing things chat??
Nah bro I heard that too 😂😂
I’m not finna read comments until after the vid
But if Dwight David Howard isn’t on this list there’s gonna be problems 🤨
lol
The early 80s west outside of The lakers is the worst conference I ever seen the early 2000s east atleast had sum great defenses
hakeem and Ralph Sampson was a good team before injuries and that's about it
Yall gotta get the final boss in here. Swipa getting to confident lmao
glaze
You mean ticket?
Stats solely don’t measure a players impact. Think about what I wrote, this isn’t to take away the stats but to contextualize them. Playing with someone who didn’t pass and was a bad teammate should play a part when we talk about players and their legacy.
Wilt is the only guy to who have an assist title off of Total assist and not Apg, don’t know what he did to get that but Ok
Or like Jerry west wining fmvp on a losing team they were just making it up as they go back then😂
@@Dusty3967there still making it up.
What's so hard to understand about that?
@@JohnnyRodgers3 wym
@@howitzdone8992 he played more TOTAL games than the APG leader ( I believe it was Oscar Robertson) while only averaging 1 or 2 less assist, making him the leader in total assist that year...usually the TOTAL assist guy is the APG leader as well. But that wasn't the case this year
I need to know what swipa sees in Barkley fr
You gotta seperate the lists as far as who was the best at their peak, 100% healthy, who had the best career, and a list that includes how good a player was relative to his Era. I would have 3 totally different lists. For example I’m definitely going Embiid over Robinson if you’re talking peak, fully healthy…. I’d maybe even consider him top 3.
Relative to era favors previous era's bc it's easier to dominate a sport when there is less competition. The number of elite athletes near their prime attempting to become pro NBA players has been way more during these players careers in comparison to 80s and 90s players.
@@rlh12345 That’s a fair point. But you can’t discount all the sports science, strength n conditioning, and skills training that is available today. My example was if Wilt had that stuff available to him back in his era his game would look quite different…. I think he would be much more versatile. I don’t think Larry Bird was the first 6’9-6’10 human ever born that could be a lethal shooter and good ball handler. The big guys just were never told to practice those skills back then. I’m sure the coaches told them to get their asses right by the basket where they belong. And better competition creates better players. Say if Wilt wasn’t so dominant and had better competition it would have forced him to work on the weaknesses in his game.
@@gmoney8399 Big guys weren't taught to shoot free throws? Throughout most of his career he was shooting 11+ free throws a game and only shot 51% from the line. Free throw shooting has always been important. Other skills they may not have. Wilt not winning championships didn't drive him to work on his game?
@@rlh12345 It did…. but I think he was probably in the dark on how to “improve” his game since he was virtually unstoppable. You know, averaging 50, 30, and lead the league in assists during part of his career. Bill Russell was really the only guy who could hold him to under 40 lol. The main critique of his game early on was his passing. Shortly after he lead the league in assists. And I guarantee his FT% would have been much better today if they had specialized shooting coaches and sports psychologists back then. His coaches and teammates even said he was probably around 90% from the line in practice despite having unorthodox shooting mechanics…. but he would really get in his head during actual games. Seems like a specialized shooting coach and a sports psychologist would have done wonders for that weakness in his game. But also working with a ball handling coach and someone to deepen his post up bag I’m sure would’ve significantly enhanced those skills. But at the time there wasn’t much of a point considering his limited offensive game was virtually unstoppable. Kids these days work with specialized coaches like that as early as middle school lol. He was the first player to really implement strength training obviously… the guy was 7’1 310 and straight jacked. But he just worked out with Arnold and body builders. Adds a ton of muscle…. but not basketball specific in regard to lifts that enhance explosiveness and agility. So I still stand on my point. You’ve got to agree with that to “some” extent.
Kareem
Shaq
Hakeem
Bill
Wilt
Drob
Jokic
Moses
Ewing
Embiid/Dwight/
Artis
Embiid is so much better than Dwight was but injuries make it this a convo
Good list
1:50:57 All Ron did was read the box score. Ignoring the statpadding and horrible teammate confession because he put up 50 is nasty work. It was empty, it didn't lead to winning. It wasn't until Wilt became a team player that he started seeing real results. And what people won't acknowledge is that Wilt was a playoff dropper, Bill Russell was a playoff riser. There isn't a single year where Wilts postseason production increases. It either stays relative with worse efficiency or drops significantly. Meanwhile Bill is undefeated in game 7's, his ppg goes up, his assists go up. Bill's impact is heavily felt. I don't see how Wilt, Shaq, or Hakeem can be ahead of Bill.
Moses played with 8 teams so you couldn't identify with him....
Shaq Hakeem Kareem and Jokic are the best I’ve seen. I don’t count Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain because it’s not fair to them or the others.
I think you could argue Embiid is a better regular season player but I think Ewing is definitely better if you include playoffs and playoffs are what matters most imo
1. Bill Russell 2. Wilt Chamberlain 3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar 4. Hakeem Olajuwon 5. Shaquille O'Neal 6. David Robinson 7. Moses Malone 8. Patrick Ewing 9. Nikola Jokic 10. Dwight Howard
Having ewing ahead of jokic is insane
Olajuwan is the best center that I've seen in my life
Hakeem 🇳🇬
Shaq 💪🏿
Stilt 👽
Kareem 🛐
Joker 🃏
D Rob 🫡
Embiid 🇨🇲
Pat Ewing 🇯🇲
Moses 🦾
Dwight 🦸🏿♂️
I don’t rank the Bills respectfully.
Embiid is better than David Robinson he just has to show me more and hold up.
Ranking wilt & then say you don’t rank bill Russell makes zero sense
@@justvibing9842Wilt better at basketball , more skillful and athletic but I guess. 👍🏿
@@tayluc777What? Yeah he does have to show a lot more to even be mentioned with The Admiral maybe the most underrated player in NBA history
@@davis2k1234they can be interchangeable tbh because D Rob played defense
Any order you want. But this the top 10
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Moses
Robinson
Jokic
Ewing
Howard
im taking embiid but yeah this is pretty much consensus
@@MarzTalksSports gotta get to the finals to make my list
@@cl8355 stupid criteria but to each their own i guess
@@MarzTalksSports you ain't top 10 all time and you never been out the 2nd round.
@@cl8355is Nash a top 10 pg?
Demar kept it all the way a buck. People overhype that Kawhi Ring with Toronto so damn much.
Y’all act like the raptors were not knocking on the door bro, the same way some players would have wings without MJ dominating the same could be said about Bron. Yall capping
Im a Raptors fan. You're the one capping.
They replaced one of the worst pmayoff performers ever in demar with one of the best playoff performers ever in kawhi.
Thats the difference.
They dont get past the second round vs the sixers with demar. They BARELY did with kawhi who as mentioned is leagues better in the playoffs and absolutely carried the Raptors in that series.
Just use your logic.
1:09:13 I got Moses over jokic for now but swipa acting like it’s crazy tbh I think
Moses 6th
Jokic 7th
Drob 8th
has to be a longevity thing
@@MarzTalksSports yeah but I’m not mad at jokic at 6th bc I do think he will pass Moses. He’s knocking on the door. Just need to see a couple more. If jokic retired today saying Moses > jokic isn’t crazy to me
The Assist Champ most people view as the league leader in assists per game Wilt Chamberlain never led this. He only led the league in total Assists.
Nah Chills falloff has been astronomical. Jokic just had one of the most epic collapses in playoff history??? WHEN????
An astronomical fall off is insane lmfaoooooooo his take was crazy tho.
This might sound crazy but if some omniscient being told me if healthy Joel Embiid is actually the best center ever peak for peak. And referred to what he was in 2023/2024 before his knee injury this wouldn’t chock me.
I genuinely don’t know what to do with that season.
The problem is that it didn’t last. He gets hurt too often. Maybe best 35 game regular season stretch. But at that point the sample size is just small for regular season play
10 Best Center Single Season Peaks Ever:
1. '77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (29.6 PTS, 13.7 REB, 5.3 AST, 4.3 BLK)
2. '00 Shaquille O'Neal (30.6 PTS, 14.5 REB, 3.8 AST, 3.0 BLK)
3. '67 Wilt Chamberlain (23.9 PTS, 17.9 REB, 7.9 AST, ~4.0 BLK)
4. '64 Bill Russell (16.8 PTS, 22.1 REB, 4.5 AST, ~5.0 BLK)
5. '93 Hakeem Olajuwon (24.5 PTS, 12.9 REB, 3.2 AST, 4.2 BLK)
6. '94 David Robinson (26.1 PTS, 12.2 REB, 3.1 AST, 3.9 BLK)
7. '77 Bill Walton (19.3 PTS, 15.9 REB, 5.7 AST, 3.4 BLK)
8. '83 Moses Malone (27.7 PTS, 15.4 REB, 1.5 AST, 1.9 BLK)
9. '23 Nikola Jokić (26.3 PTS, 12.5 REB, 9.8 AST, 0.7 BLK)
10. '90 Patrick Ewing (26.7 PTS, 11.5 REB, 2.2 AST, 3.9 BLK)
Stats adjusted per 75 possessions so pace is accounted for
If peak is 1 yr then I think 2000 shaq is clear of everyone even if it’s 3 I still think his peak is 1st
@@howitzdone8992 I think Kareem and Shaq are in a tier of their own but I can't discount Kareem's scoring prowess in the playoffs that year (he's probably the most efficient and most versatile post scorer on film) mixed in being a slightly better passer than Shaq especially on an injured team.
Rahh you put up all them numbers just to be wrong, crazy
@@nykareem2001 Kareem peak isnt that High IMO
Pace is accounted for, but points inflation isn't. Moses Malone doesn't have a Top 10 Center Peak.
I’m sorry I’m taking jokic over wilt
We all are
you're tripping
Ion know wilt has 2 rings and FMVP I think, and has as many if not more mvp’s than joker, and has a ton of records and stats that joker hasn’t gotten to yet, I think if joker wins a few more mvps and 1 more ring and fmvp ir could be over wilt
@@Her0the_1PLUS…Wilt’s two championship teams set the record for most wins in their year…they’re STILL in the Top 10.
thats not ridiculous, thats not ridiculous to say that
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Bill
Moses
Drob
Jokic
Dwight
Ewing
basically had the same list as the panel
Basketball maturity is realizing Russell is the GOAT center.
1:11:45 respect Ja’s series!!!
Everybody gives Gil credit
The issue with people like Swpa (and Marz) is that they vastly overrate the offensive impact Jokic is having on a basketball court and understate how much energy the Nuggets expend trying to cover for his severe deficiencies as a rim protector (especially in the playoffs). Jokic is not the offensive player that Nash, Bron, MJ, Magic or even Curry was. He's never led a +8, +10, or +15 offense in the playoffs even though all the other names I mentioned did (with injured, health, good and bad teams) several times. The box score inflates how good Jokic and Embiid actually are.
After that first sentence everybody should just stop reading 😂
@@howitzdone8992he actually has a good point. Jokic is a great offensive anchor yet his lack of defense does hinder his team.
@@dewanewelch1744 I didn’t read anything pass the first statement so if he does idk if u say that abt jokic u have to Also say that abt Steph Nash and magic 😂 does that change how good they are on offense 😂
@@howitzdone8992 I'm not saying that it changes how good Jokic is on offense. I'm saying that regardless of if Jokic is a great defender or not, he's not a GOAT tier offensive player where we can just ignore how bad he is on defense.
@@nykareem2001 I think that’s just wrong 😂 which is why I stopped after that statement he is 1000% in that tier IMO
Shaq out played Hakeem in the playoffs in 99. People overrate Hakeem legacy. Hakeem quit on his team and didn't advance to the second round in 5 years.
Shaq has the record for being swept the most times, shaq didnt win anything without kobe and wade, shaq got swept by hakeem in the finals
Both jokic and hakeem clear
@@ggrlyggrly4476blasphemy 😂
Imagine 09 Dwight with 09 CP3
I like it
I did think Luke Walton was going to be good. He was decent at times tho.
I remember what Dwight Howard did in 2009 beating LeBron's Cav's but he was never in the discussion fir best player in the NBA like Embiid
Wemby and embiid in the thumbnail but no Instead or Russell and wilt. I know it dont really matter but come on bruh
08 09 10 Kobe
In My Humble Opinion, Wemby is Not gonna Meet the Goat Expectations, he will NEVER B’ in those Conversations!…But I do Think he’ll B’ an ALL-Time Great!…I Think he Ends his Career in the Patrick Ewing Conversation, Ranked Anywhere from 34-44 ALL-Time!…I Think he Ends with 1, Maybe 2 Championships but as the #2 on the Team!…Much Like Tony Parker was to Duncan!…
Who are the people you consider "in the conversation"?
@@rlh12345 ONLY the Top 3 Greatest Ever are in the Goat Conversation!…Top 5 & Top 10 are Considered the Greatest Players EVER!…And Top Up to the Top 75 are ALL-Time Greats, the List will B’ Expanded when they Introduce the Top 100 Ever!…
@@GSR-Indictment Outside of injury I can't see him not finishing his career as a top 20 player all time. I'm guessing, given good health, he finishes as a top 5 player all time. I think he has the work ethic to pull it off.
@@rlh12345 I don’t See that at ALL!…He NEVER Gonna B’ Strong Enough to Play Down Low, I don’t See his Mid Range Improving to where it’s an Elite Shot!…Without the Strength he also can’t Guard the Post!…To Me he’ll Still put Up Maybe 26 & 10 with 3 Blocks, but that’s Mostly Based on the Inflation of Numbers in Todays Game!…I Think he’ll B’ a Number 2 at his Best & get 1 Maybe 2 Chips!…NEVER Coming Close to Being a Top Player!…He’s A.D. with Better Health in My Opinion!…
I think that greaest is different to best, Imo Mikan is in the top 10 greatest ever because of how good he was compared to those of his time but not top 10 best
Mikan was the undisputed goat at one time nobody else can claim that
@@sampp44 so was Jordan and tbh I think 20 years after LeBron retires there will be few people who have him over MJ
@@Anonymityfan there still are ppl who have wilt kareem or hell even russel over jordan so he never was the 100% undisputed goat
@@sampp44 Oh if you mean literally everyone yh maybe
Moses is in my top 20. I think top 15.
All time. Above dr j. People put dr j over due to popularity, but moses was better and his resume better too.
Legacy, impact wise tho?
moses was not better than doc at basketball
@@MarzTalksSports what about purely in the nba?
@@MarzTalksSports
I do think he was in the NBA. Moses automatically became the best player on the sixers when he got there and was considered better the couple years before that too. He was The Guy.
@@canadadry4609 when they teamed up sure moses was probably better but dr J from 77-81 is better than any moses
Individually wilt...as a team bill
Swipa & Ticket both made good points but Jokic is slightly better lol
The way Chill picks and chooses which arguments to use for who he likes plus the fact he will deliberately ignore what a player has done to make an argument for his guy is nasty. Chill so biased and inconsistent he approaching ticket levels of nasty. Bring back LOW Fluent and Dub
Dub is TRASH!…Sub him for the Goat Pirate!…
They all do this everyone has their bias
Artis Gilmore wasn’t an all time great ??😭😂 he was definitely a better glass cleaner than Kareem too.
Bill Walton is an underrated defender at the 5. His peak is top 10 defensive impacts all time. But he is white so we don’t think of him as a defender
The argument for Hakeem over Shaq would have to be "they're close offensively and Hakeem is miles better defensively so it's Hakeem". That's such a weak argument because you could use it when comparing Steph to somebody like Kawhi. Shaq clears offensively. Shaq peaked WAY higher than Hakeem, not to mention Shaq has better longevity than Hakeem. Shaq is a better scorer, passer, playmaker, and rebounder than Hakeem. You'd really have to believe the defense is the separator, and that's not enough imo.
Centers get way more value out of being a great defender than guards do. Particularly during those two's era's where the game was less perimeter oriented. It's fair to go either direction with those two.
1:16:41 chill town argument is moses went through one of the worst conferences of all time and beat a injured lakers?
yes,i dont get it 'moses took a team below 500 to the finals' was moses not on the team while they were going below 500? like they went below 500 with him there why is that then being praised as overcoming something
Nahhh moses better than jokic tho
Beat a 50 win team jokic has still not yet to do it???
Dwight first year was very good and then he got his ass whooped by Lamarcus. Second year was good to alright then third year was ass
Hakeem could not gaurd shaq either in that finals 😂 idk why ppl love to say Ben and Hakeem slowed him down Cuz he didn’t avg 30, Kobe was a double agent in 04,
Hate to be the “his offense is his defense” guy but whenever I look at that series I’ve always seen it more as Hakeem schooled Shaq on offense more than he did on defense. They both couldn’t handle each other but Hakeem was more calculated with his buckets and took advantage of Shaq’s deficiencies more. But no the narrative that Hakeem or Ben locked or slowed down Shaq is just not true.
@@aherbo18 lol for 04 people just look up his stats see that it was less than that of previous championship runs and assume it was ben slowing him down when in reality he had stepped up to his regular season self. Shaq in 04 was no longer in his peak and was declining. Even his playoff numbers aren't great so in reality he performed better in the finals than he had ever done the entire season
@@spaceship5786 yeah I think it’s a little bit of both simply cause I want to give Ben some credit. What Ben did great in that series was stop the ball at Shaq’s waist before he could bring it up near the rim. It was a lot of little stuff that affected Shaq and the entire team’s performance. Ben was an excellent communicator too so he limited open looks created by Shaq’s gravity. But in terms of 1v1 post defense, Shaq was still having his way with Ben, despite not being what he was just a few years prior to that.
Shaq had 14pts in a 04 Finals game while taking the most shots on the team Big Ben played him straight up 1v1 do t just box score watch the games
@@davis2k1234 he only had 14 shots 😂 clown wat he do the next game? Ben could not gaurd shaq that’s not a knock nobody could, he did better than anybody not named Duncan and Hakeem
In my opinion bill had higher iq
Swipa you underrate the value of the offensive rebound. Tenacious offensive rebounders provide extra floor spacing, constantly generate high efficiency offense, create foul problems, create high floor offenses by mitigating the effects of bad shooting nights and control tempo especially if said rebounder is a good transition passer. Moses is by far the greatest offensive rebounder ever while still converting over 50% of his two pointers. He has a case for being a better offensive player than Jokic.
@@nykareem2001 he’s underrating and your overrating 😂
holy shit you did jot say that
no damn way u just said a case for better offensive player what do u guys see man
Worse ball handler, worse interior scorer, worse peremiter scorer, worse playmaker, but offensive rebounding gives him a case to be a better offensive player?
@@BigSalmon13 but but but the rebounds
Swipa capping if Murray keep going on the run he going on he going to be the Reggie miller of this era not in terms of looking like a regular all start in the regular season and turning in great level all star In the playoff when healthy but he do this boost jokic
I dont think anyone who saw jamal murray can question his ability, his problem is his health
Murray robbed prime jokic of 3 years of contention because of his injuries
2021 2022 2024
Where domo been at
People in the chat still using 50 win argument for jokic crazy how recency bias and winning bias deludes people just cuz someone's bias for somebody dont mean he wrong lol
Jokic is great but one of his mvps can be questionable and people sleep on Moses he was so strong and would give Jokic problems on the block because you can’t move him !!! 😮😮😮
The only questionable thing about jokic's mvps was that he got robbed of 4 straight mvps cuz of race agenda by fragile media personality
+moses aint stopping jokic in 1v1 coverage
@@ggrlyggrly4476 Jokic got "robbed" bc he already won 2 straight and had no chips to show for it. He won the chip and was given the award again. Lebron was "robbed" in 2011. Don't get me wrong, the race narrative Perk put out there was BS, but Jokic wasn't going to get 3 in a row since he didn't have the championship yet.
I stopped watching when I hear Malone over joker and Robinson that list is beyond cooked
Nah I’m afraid your knowledge on basketball history might be cooked my friend. 3 MVPS, a FMVP, one of the goat playoff runs, the goat offensive rebounder, good defender, top 5 player to come from HS, longevity, cooked Kareem damn near every a series they played, and drug a 40-42 team to the finals by beating the defending champions. Joker needs about 5 more prime years to surpass and Robinson has no chance.
@@victoralexander3767jokic got 3 mvps and got robbed of the 4th based on racist narratives
Jokic also got finals mvp but jokic's run was far more dominant and impressive from individual numbers standpoint
Jokic was the first and only player in nba history to lead all teams in points rebounds and assists in the post season
Jokic is greatest offensive center of all time and he would a great defender if he had to play against plumbers and firemen with no 3 point line, camp in the paint and just shove any dude who comes close which is what they called defense
@@victoralexander3767why didn’t he just make the 40-42 team have a better record?
Bill Russell is a better passer than Wilt chamberlain nothing y’all could tell me to make me think otherwise, wilt is wat y’all think Westbrook is as a a ball hog
Wilt wasn't a ball hog. Lol. He legit got mad at his coach for not putting in a system to get other players shots. When he finally got a coach that made a system he won his first title BECAUSE he wanted to pass. Then they fired that coach and Wilt was pissed. That mostly lead to him wanted to be traded.
@@dewanewelch1744 Just Lying 😂 I watched him not pass guys the ball if he didn’t think he was gonna get an assist off the shot 😂 and then he became to passive and stop scoring tryna prove to ppl he could pass, literally said he wasn’t passing Chet the ball cuz he dribbles to much and he won’t get an assist
@@howitzdone8992 show proff because I can show proof of what I've saying. He legit was happy when he went to LA because he been wanting help.
@@dewanewelch1744what I’m saying was said by his teammates u can look it up, and go watch how he played vs the Knicks he was refusing to shoot if it wasn’t a guarantee bucket
@@howitzdone8992 Kobe did that for a game also. That don't mean that is who he was. What I stated was said by Hal Geer, West, Baylor, Russell, Goodrich, and every coach other then his first coach.
Moses >> Nash
swipe j be yellin wrong, loud & over ppl after they say 4 words. This is tickets walmart replacement ? smh
Horrible. There’s no way Kareem should ever be over Wilt chamberlain, they played 4 years together so they’re numbers can be compared somewhat .theres NO DEBATE. Kareem did nothing better than wilt other than constantly shoot.. as far a player attributes Kareem does nothing better than wilt other than shoot the sky hook as wilt would say 😭Kareem played with the 2 greatest PG distributors. Literally the #1#2 all time assist leaders .. shaq and wilt did not have that. WILT and Shaq as players. Kareem if we talkin careers accolades. This is like putting Dirk over a luka on the greatest Mavs list.
Medieval Marz 😂
Center position doesn't exist in today's NBA circus. Only Anthony Davis . Too much Euro ball to call big men centers.
1:28:13 the NASTIEST TAKE IN THE VIDEO 😒
U have no idea how good artis gilmore was
@@MarzTalksSports I’m actually very aware of Artis Gilmore’s career and ability lol I’m not one of those “he played in a weak era he’s trash” guys. I do my research. He’s just not Jokic my guy. I wish he was, then my Bulls would have had a resurgence in the late 70s similar to 75. But he didn’t have that impact. Not in the NBA atleast. Very good talent though.
@@DeeGreatesti think i said moses not jokic
@@MarzTalksSports Yeahhhh I misheard you, I owe you an apology. And actually, I’ll even agree that Artis was a better talent than Moses. Only problem was that Artis didn’t get the memo that he was better than Moses. And everyone else outside of Kareem. Simply refused to dominate every night as a scorer eventhough nobody could stop him. Moses has to still get the edge mostly due to his history as a ceiling raiser and consistent high level of play against elite competition. But again, my bad fam.
Bill took an insane cut out of Chamberlains Scoring. In 61/62 he took 14 points and a 4-5% TS% dumb. And for career he took 4-5 points and 4-5% TS% drop out of Wilt. Bill Russell was easily the best man and off ball defender of his time.
1:25:00 🤣🤣🤣
Duncan was better than Parrish!!!
jokic is over moses wemby shouldnt be discussed here yet and embiid shouldn't be anywhere near here either
Chl killed buddy in that mosses vs jokic debate. Once u brought up Bron and Jordan u already lost. Wtf did they have to die with the two centers at topic??
It only doesn't make sense if ur parents are siblings
Chill tried to push jokic choker narrative cuz he lost with austin rivers, campazzo and monte despite putting up great numbers, swipa responded with the fact that Chill is on his knees defending lebron that he never chokes cuz of his numbers, so it's either
Big numbers in losses = not choke
Or
Big numbers in losses = choke
He can't say that when lebron fills the stat sheet it's his team's fault lebron did everything but then turn around and say when jokic puts up huge numbers in losses he choked and should have done more
But most people dislike jokic so people will only listen to narratives that sht on jokic
Shaq and penny played Hakeem and Drex to a draw in that Finals, Ellie Horry Kenny and cassell outplayed shaw Ho Grant Dennis and nick Anderson
That’s Cap!…Drexler wasn’t on the Team & Horry & Cassell were Both Bench Guys!…Cassell in his Rookie Year & Horry in his Sophomore Year!…Hakeem was the ONLY Star on the Roster!…Nick Anderson was Like a Starting Jordan Clarkson, Horace was a 2 Way All Star, Shaq was Top 3 in the League & Penny was Top 10!…Orlando Still got Swept!…
@@GSR-Indictment😂 don’t know what the fukk u talking about Clyde was on that team and horry and Ellie was the 3rd and 4th leading scorers on the team do your research b4 typing my guy
@@GSR-Indictmentjust typed a bunch of bullshit 😂😂
@@howitzdone8992 My Bad I Mixed Up the Years, thought Knicks was 95 & Magic 94!…
Willis reed is better than Ewing