Hold up, in every racquet sport, serving is an essential technique that creates opportunities for servers to make plays, since it is the only shot that is 100% controlled by a player. Why is there a need to de-weaponise a technique?? Sounds ridiculous.
@@RichardsWorld until recently it was for old people. It's only be like the last 10 years or so younger people have started. It use to be the average age was like 50+ now it's like 34 and most of the new players coming in are 18-24. I just started playing a few weeks ago. I'm 36 and love the game as is. You shouldn't be trying to destroy a 60+ year old person unless they are on your level. Play a nice casual game. Me and the guys I play with try to break each other's ankles. Lmao
This. I agree with this. It's the same with other racquet sports. The serve is the only shot which is entirely controlled by the player, and is used to set up opportunities for plays. I know I'm basically repeating what you said, but you said it clearly and well ;) If someone has trouble returning serves, it sounds like they need to work and improve on that skill.
I am one of those old (70) ladies that loves to play pickleball. I accept that there will always be players better than me. But there will also always be players that are not as good as me. Some of them are 20 years younger. Leave the game alone. Playing your best, in my opinion, is not always the kill shots or the ace serve. The best game is keeping the ball in play. Rallies that last several shots across the net, that’s what makes it fun. Rule changes are not fun!
Leave it since 1965 it has been working. Don't rock the boat keep it simple. Play with your same ability players. Great video, thanks for providing your thoughts!!!!!
Why do they keep trying to change the game now when it is growing fast as it is. I don't see them changing the Tennis rules. They are going to ruin the game.
As a coach, I’ve been in favor of going to a drop serve only. I’ve noticed a lot of players doing volley serves ABOVE their waist with their paddle head ABOVE their wrist. A much smaller percentage of volley servers hit “downward” (instead of from low to high according to the rules). The drop serve eliminates the three rules of volley serving (below waist, upward motion, paddle head below wrist) and allows ANY method of contact AFTER the “dropped ball” (NOT SPEED BOUNCED) hits the surface. The Drop serve is the ONLY change I’d like to consider to this beloved game. It would add to creativity in serving (all spins and trajectories allowed), diminish the role of the “rule-following complainer” (no rules to violate or argue over) and POSSIBLY decrease the speed dominance of the volley serve. Decreasing the service box area would harm the game immeasurably. It’s just another line on the court to confuse players or limit their chances of success. I LOVE being an Ambassador of the game of Pickleball. I’m the guy who willingly partners with beginning players AND 91 year old Martha because I want all participants to know they are welcomed to play this great game. Of course, I’ve had my share of “being pickled” moments in my three years of playing, but my “team” ALWAYS leaves the court with a smile and positive words of encouragement. The Drop Serve--I’m IN!!!
the only issue with the drop serve is that you can generate just as much, if not MORE Power on that serve because now you're able to fully get all the mechanics through the ball.
Pickleball was designed for the serve to not be a weapon, hence the underhand motion, below the waist, etc. The paddle tech has advanced to such a level that, along with the proliferation of topspin as a common shot, has made the serve a weapon. Watching a game that is one serve and a return that is out or into the net is not good watching, and is one of the things affecting tennis as a spectator sport. The nuances of upper level play are much more interesting in pickleball. That being said, I am not in favor of this rule, but I do agree that deflection testing and capping the power and pop of paddles is a good idea. I believe that is in the works and they will probably either set the top end where they are now ir walk back those requirements over the next couple of years whereby paddle companies will know their newer paddles will have to adhers to tighter standards. Also, talk about old ladies and the sharp angle serve doesn't work as they still have the potential to face that, along with harder serves, and they have to run further to get to those angle serves.
There's never going to be a perfect solution but it seems to me that a drop/bounce serve would be the best compromise. It would certainly make life easier for the refs at the highest level of tourney play. Under the current rule it can be extremely difficult for a ref to determine if a serve was legal...and players like Tyson and Ben very often push the threshold to the extreme limit.
There never will be the perfect solution but I think we are at the closest to perfect right now. Millions of people have been playing this way for a long time and there has not been many issues. I should make a video though that shows 50-100 of the different serves and see which one is more lethal and which one is faster.
The same issue affected tennis and guess what, returners got better and the game came into balance again. The same thing will happen with Pickleball. As servers learn more offensive serves returners will learn to conquer them and the balance will return. Artificially trying to “make this balance” will not work and will only hurt the game’s progression. Leave it alone.
I don't think a drop serve really de-weaponizes the serve. I've only been playing for a month but I can absolutely pepper a drop serve. I use a drop serve because that's what felt most comfortable coming from racketball.
I’ve been using the drop serve since it was allowed and live it. I drop it very low and therefore it goes low over the net. Speed and pinpointing the serve is also good. One thing I’ve noticed is that many. And I mean many, people either toss or propel the ball which is not legal in a “drop” serve, hence the name! You would think that people would review the drop serve rules before regularly using it.
I’ve been using the drop serve since it was allowed and love it. I drop it very low and therefore it goes low over the net. Speed and pinpointing the serve is also good. One thing I’ve noticed is that many. And I mean many, people either toss or propel the ball which is not legal in a “drop” serve, hence the name! You would think that people would review the drop serve rules before regularly using it.
The reason is the height of the bounce. Unless you're extra short, the bounce won't even reach the height of your belly button so it will make flat serves much harder
I switched to the drop serve a year or so ago, I anticipated that sooner or later that would be the rule and I wanted to be ahead of curve. I'm very pleased with it.
For what reason to make a game easier cus some people can't play it at a high level? The game is fine. I just watched a video where some older women was killing some young dudes for most of the game. Them women was serving hard and playing hard . So what's the point
Drop serve is probably the answer. I started playing with the drop serve a year ago and have stuck with it because I felt that they would eventually make this change. You can still get pretty good power if you move back a few feet. Let’s hope they don’t limit how far you can serve off the base line…no more lines 😂
Drop serve is the most neutral rule change without having to repaint lines on a court. High level players will figure out how to capitalize on hitting serves into a designated box. Cap paddle power makes sense, but you will always have players who can add mph using technique. Agree with common sense when playing with less gifted players, or players with mobility problems.
Watching KOTC today and Tyler was saying how James Ignatowich has good technique and hits the ball with max MPH. Like you said, I think no matter what you do, there will be someone that figures out how to capitilize.
I’m a tennis player that occasionally plays pickleball. The serve is my favorite part of the game and a good serve is essential to compete at higher levels. I get that in pickleball the appeal is the low barrier to entry and the simple serve makes that possible. One reason I don’t care for pickleball much is that my serve is no longer a weapon, like it is in tennis. If they passed this rule I might not ever want to play pickleball again. There is a reason for a rating system (3.0,4.0, etc). People should be competing with others at the same level.
For the most part I think people try to compete at the same levels but one place I typically play at always has different levels and frequently we will get an older person playing.
@@sirpauldouglass Yeah, the same happens in tennis, and, like you said, you ease up, which you should. I’m opposed to changing rules for the entire game just because of these situations.
I like the drop serve only rule. It’s simple, can still generate power, and easy to judge. Checking the paddle’s performance (rebound, power, size etc) is also a good idea. It’s already done in tennis, so why not in pickleball? Keeps the lines as they are.
In my opinion, moving the service line in pickleball would be equivalent to asking for jump serves to be illegal in beach volleyball. That would be boring. As the server, it makes sense to have a reasonable opportunity to score on your first action. Your opponent’s job is to defend against the serve effectively and win back the serve.
if the points just started on the return everyone would just let serves go until they got one that they could absolutely T-off on. Maybe it is because I come from a tennis background where I saw a lot of serves in the 110 to 120 range but a 50 mph pickle ball serve just doesn’t seem like a weapon even if it is really deep.
Hitting the front corner of the box is a great serve tactic. Leave the lines as they are. If anything, slow up the ball. One shot rallies would never sell TV contracts. Knowing your opponent is a must in open rec. "Read the room" for sure.
People that agree with this stupid rule must be old and rusty, who always crying on the courts when playing against a good player that did everything completely legal. The best way to fix it is learn how to play better or just only play again people who are at the same level!!! Every sports are hard, that’s why it requires skill and training. What’s the point of make the game so easy, so everyone is qualified to play at the tournament? So what’s the point of a professional tournament then? Imagine paying to go to a tournament to see someone who can’t even return a serve. I bet you people who thought of this rule are not professional players, must be someone who wants to be a pro but can’t get better. 😂
Yeah, like the lob, some people just like to complain because they can't get to it. I think in rec play, better players can take a little spice off their serve. I play drop in all the time and I will frequently play against a team that is a 5.0 with a 3.5. I will hit hard to the 5.0 but hit a little softer to the 3.5 (unless I am losing) LOL
@@sirpauldouglass I’m someone that would get a big impact from this new rule if it ever came true because I mainly play single so serve is one of my biggest strengths. But when I played against someone who might not be as good at return my serve, I always tuned it down and have fun (unless I’m loosing like you said, lol) if they keep coming up with these type of stupid rules to limit people capabilities, this sport will become a talentless sport!!
As someone who can serve the ball across the court in two seconds and has messed around with extreme spin and fast serves, drop down serves are the superior serves. If you wanted to make serves slower, you would want to keep only the volley serve. The volley serve is considerably nerfed because of having to hit the ball below your hip, and do that without moving the ball up or down when beginning your serve stroke before dropping the ball. Even if you drew the extra lines on both sides and I had to serve in a small space in the middle, I could still nail a serve and make it go fast. Most of my serves go into the middle anyways because of how it is underdeveloped, and there is still plenty of room to juke with short and long serves. Even if they made serves useless with regulation, drives would still be on the table. Banning fast play will only make an off-branch of fast playing pickleball players that don't follow official rules.
I say "2" seconds, and this sounds like an exaggeration already, but I did the math on a different guy, ignatowich, and he can hit a serve and have the ball reach the other side in .73 seconds. A pickleball court is 44 feet long, 44 / .73 = 60.27 feet per second, x 60 = 3,616.2 feet per minute, x 60 = 216,972 feet per hour, / 5,280 ft = 41.1 MPH. This is in a casual game with a volley serve, you can't even hear the ball whistling in the video. I have no doubt that serves can get as fast as 50 something MPH because I have played against someone with a fast serve, and have learned to serve fast myself. While the ball whistling isn't necessarily equivalent to speed, I am confident that I can break 40mph on a serve. Here is a link to the video with ignatowich's serve, and a timestamp 0:53. You can see in the video that his serve is sub 1 second. I timed it with a stopwatch on my phone and got .73 seconds. I could probably get a more accurate time by screen recording and scrubbing, so I think I will add that in an edit. edit: I got 0.79, a little more than I got with the stopwatch, that's still 38 MPH. edit: bad math
I've been to a few events where they were clocked with a radar gun. Most hard serves are over 40 mph while the faster ones were low to mid 50s. I bet Big Jimmy's are on that high end for sure.
@@sirpauldouglass I did the math wrong, its 44 / .70, apparently you can't inverse it and make it 1.30 x 44, so the speed is actually a little faster. I found that video and seeing how fast they can hit the ball with the radar gun, which makes me think I can break 60. Maybe I will post a video on this channel to see if my ego is correct the next time I go out.
@@unsilencedderp9411 I would love to see if you can do that but that is very fast. You might hit 60 but I doubt it is staying in. Let me know what happens.
This new (proposed) rule is about the same as badminton where they also have a back service line limit but ONLY FOR DOUBLES, not in singles. The idea is that the purpose of the serve is ONLY TO START THE GAME and not used to weaponize the serve to make an easy point. As for adding a serving line limit on the sides is not really required as you are right that many will make many error serves given a smaller box to serve it in. However such rules should be applied depending on the level of play of the players and can do with or without it as like they say, pickleball should be fun.
Like the video. I have an idea. If they are trying to equalize the game on the first hit. Let the receivers decide on a net ball. Is it a redo or they can just play on. Problem with this is when is the redo instigated? After the hot? Before the hit? Before the ball lands after the hit? Or before the player hits it originally.
I actually like the idea of the 4ft service line although I doubt it will be implemented. The problem I find with many courts is there is not sufficient space behind the court and I can get jammed up when returning. This has been exacerbated by the new power paddles.
Deweaponise the serve????? Wtf. Next, they'll have to do the same for the return of serve, which can be hit as hard as you like into the full court. If your serve is good, then great, it may be your only weapon, so let's not take it away. Imagine doing this in tennis. Some of the big guys rely on their serve in order to win a high percentage of points which would potentially lose once a rally developes and they're not playing to their strengths. If you're playing someone weaker and it's not serious, then get into the rally and practice some other shots that you may be weaker on, and don't just bludgeon the serve down for a cheap point.
I was watching my 65 year old sister play and a similarly aged but highly skilled man on the other team was putting some really good spin on the ball making it nearly impossible for the old ladies to return. This is where all the outcry for new rules comes from. Have some self respect!
Mandating a drop serve would not alter the game and would stop the complaints about high serves. On a positive note, the one serve rule and the two bounce rule get the game off to a great start that gives the returner a small advantage.
We need to make the game more athletic. People complain that it is an old man sport and is boring. There is a space for old and young but let's not ruin the most athletic by some dumb rules.
Would requiring the serve swing motion be underhand in nature take away the ability to really puts any spin on the ball. The best anyone could weaponized it is via precision in where it lands. It is great when I play higher level players and they hold offf on shots they know I can't return and focus on hitting shots I can return but execute them so well it challenges their skills. It shows class on their part and is much appreciated.
Excellent review of options/solutions. Leave the rules/lines etc alone. I’m not sure that the paddle technology should be limited-golf certainly hasn’t. Not sure on other racket type sports.
"What if we just start the point with the return?" What a silly idea. "Oh, I don't like his serve right now. I won't be able to make a good return.. I'll just let it fly by. Can't make a point with the serve."
I think you nailed it. It is an absolutely stupid idea. If you were a low level player playing with a higher level player then expect to get whipped. If you're high level player playing a low level player try to be nice.
The best idea that you mentioned is to get some regulations on these paddles. There are way too many illegal paddles out there. These trampoline paddles that rocket a serve or volley are absurd.
I'm 77, 2.51, play 4-5 days a week at the local YMCA with fellow rec players. My two cents: Current serve rules are mostly just right, except I'd make serves that hit the net a fault. Hate it when a serve hits the net, then sails a foot past the NVZ and falls in for a point Yes, I throttle back when I'm playing a much weaker player or if we're ahead 8-2. But that's another subject, isn't it.
Good players will be able to drop that serve in with lots of topspin effectively creating LESS time for the receiver to react. The net effect of moving the line forward will weaponize the serve even more for good players.
I would go so far as to say that drop serves are superior to volley serves because of the extra time you have to wind up your body to hit a drop serve.
I get what you're saying but I think volley serves are more lethal. I am thinking about making a video where I hit 50-100 serves on both ways and see how fast and easy they are to keep in.
I can see there being two problems that are pretty widespread that could be solved by actually having two changes. First you could do like a 3 ft line like they're suggesting (I think 4 ft is maybe too much cuz we don't want to make it too hard to hit a good servel. And the second thing that you could do is just do the drop serve and that way you don't have all the difficulty calling illegal serves. What you have to understand is that there are a number of courts that are in gyms or have fences where there's not a large area behind the service line. In many of these places just a high lobbying topspin serve is hard to even get to because of a fence or a wall. Or for that matter a severely sliced serve where you need space for the ball to come back up. Limiting paddle design is going to be very hard to enforce so I dont see that being the best overall solution.
This dumb idea gives the receiver a 3-4' closer advantage against the the serving team. You could almost volley or overhead the serve! Leave it alone, stop trying to make everyone the same Tennis doesn't do this! Why are 5.0 playing hard against 3.0 anyway, don't kill grandma she makes good cookies!
It's just a proposed rule. It won't happen. Mainly due to the cost and compliance of putting an additional line in. And it makes learning the game even more confusing. It won't get adopted.
Yeah, its just proposed but I wanted to have the discussion because collectively I think we have all voiced that it is a dumb idea. I made a little video of the line and with me actually serving into the box. ruclips.net/video/GjxDukzc6ek/видео.htmlsi=ILiYsM-BhxbPbmKb
DROP Serves do not take much power off…I only drop serve and over time found by using some top spin I can crack a drop server at top power and often get it to drop inside the back line. I don’t think power on serves are a problem…it’s just too many people not ready for “Competitive” or “Advanced” signing up for those slots around the country and not liking how people play harder and hit harder. Sure, it can suck the first time you give it shot and feel like you can’t quite keep up with your opponents hand speed or their shot placement, but playing them let’s you know where you need to work on your game.
If we need to slow down the ball flight, I suggest we change the ball. It would be very easy to change the specs for the ball to make it, for lack of better words, more dead.
I agree it's a problem of players playing other players of lower rating! At the end of the day if a 5.0 is playing a 5.0 then fairs fair right! People that are ultra competitive against old ladies have all kinds of issues!
First, where did you hear this was being proposed, as I cannot find anyplace where it has. Second, if the server line is 4ft shorter, I will stand 4ft closer, and it will be that much easier hit short cross court winning returns. Which would require the return to be in the same 4ft shorter area to deweaponize the return. Then you would have to allowed the server to cross the back line to get to the shorter return line, which would allow for harder short serves, re-weaponizing the serve the was just deweaponized.
There was lots of talk on social media about it being tested out. I don't think the server would come in 4 feet but it would allow the receiver to come in 4 feet and be that much closer to the NVZ.
Coming from the Tennis world this is a horrible idea. It's bad enough we only get one serve and have to serve underhand, now they want to shrink the service box. If the PPA officially makes this rule permanent then I'm out of the game. I'll go back to Tennis.
Exactly. I think it is great the way it is. Thanks for commenting as well. If you haven't subscribed, please do. I have some cool content and giveaways coming up.
Better players do not generally weaponize the serves. I see more mid level players try crazy serves. Much less successfully I may add. It’s good the way it is. Make it a drop serve. Makes it same for everyone every time.
That means as a serve returner I don't have to run fast to the kitchen plus I can crush the return or easily dink. I have more advantage now Woohoooo!!!
Here's an idea.. leave everything alone. If you are not having fun or complaining about your opponents serve, maybe you need your find easier opponents. Just sayin'. assuming they are serving legally.
The serve make it more fun. The argument that it can make it more difficult for some to return can be made in any other part. For example we can required a speed limit for the drive, because can be to fast. Or to prohibit the smash after a fail third shot because is too hard to return !!! Without the serve then why not to start in kitchen and do just dinking. We can called dinking ball!
This is a good discussion. USAP is doing a disservice to the debate when they talk about 'de-weaponizing' the serve without explaining the fundamental reason why that's even a consideration. My understanding is that the reason USAP could be legitimately concerned about the impact of new tech enabling highly powerful serves is that it flips the balance of advantages built into the game: the serving team has the advantage they can score, but the receiving team has the advantage that they can move to the NVZ sooner. If serves get "too big" then it could come to pass that the serving team has a sort of double advantage and the receiving team is at an extreme disadvantage. So it's not about old ladies or not wanting to compete or anti-tech etc, it's about the structure of the game. I'm in favor of heavy serves - I serve hard and I'm using the Joola Perseus Mod - so count me in the power group but I get why USAP has to evaluate the impact on the game.
if deweaponizing the serve is the point I would think the drop serve would be a good idea. I was thinking that they could drop the mph's that a serve could reach. say it can't be over 50 or 55 mph. But there isn't really that many pros who really have a big serve. Most of them are men or the younger players from tennis. the only other option I'm thinking is if they change the ball, making it softer. it's a catch 22 situation
Setting a mph limit is extremely impractical, which is way changing the serving rules is a more practical way of achieving the same result. I don’t think the serve needs to be de-weaponized at all, but just wanted to clarify the logistics.
Wait so everyone has to not enjoy serving to please people who could a) play within their ability or b) not be jerks when they play with lower mobility oponents
How can we change the rules so we can eliminate foursomes that are woefully mismatched in skill levels? This is what we are talking about isn't it? First you have to define the problem before you can solve it.
Some places I see have designated courts for higher and lower levels. Where I live, we do not have certain designations and older people will get mixed with the younger and stronger. When this happens the more skilled could easily back off power a liittle.
Why is there a need to de-weaponize the serve? Sounds ridiculous to me. I'm short and I play against giant ppl that can stand at the kitchen line and weaponize the return at me. I have to try and barely clear the net to defend against them. I have been told, "your serve is scary" and have backed off, and even lost games because of a gentle serve. I've had ppl tell me they took classes to better themselves against hard serves and drives, now they are better and return them. I say, read the room and play friendly but I don't think they need to dumb down the game. Sounds ridiculous to me and since I'm an amateur player, the pros out there need to push back on the PPA, etc..
They should push back. When Ben Johns or Ignatowich are getting their hard serves going, they need all that room. It should be a weapon. My girlfriend is a 4.0- 4.5 and I have never taken it easy on her with serves and she has learned to play with them. I'm not saying to go crazy on an old lady but I think most players should and will better themselves with harder hits.
If you're trying to de-weaponize the serve, rather than adding lines (base &/or side) on the court, why not experiment with raising the net. You could have a standard tournament height, a suggested recreational height, a senior height, etc... Volleyball has a different net height for men and women without changing the court dimensions.
That is an interesting idea actually but I think you would get much more pushback. Everyone would have to learn how to dink, drive and drop differently.
@@sirpauldouglass Easy to set-up and try to see if it's a possibile solution. The dink, drive & drop may be just a minor adjustment to your skills depending on how high the net is raised. This effects players equally on both sides of the net,
I think if you serve too fast for your opponent- should be a point penalty maybe even a DQ right on the spot Imagine Federer asking Isner to serve nicer so they can play some points… tennis anyone?
@@sirpauldouglass I don't think they'd banned the companies outright. But they do pay a fee to get their paddles approved and if the governing pickleball bodies deem all the previous paddles that were approved were too "lethal" then those companies would probably get mad.
USAPA / PPA keeps dumbing down the game in order to increase the market $$$. Now they're attacking the serve (no pun intended)? The paddle surface debate is another example where they keep dumbing it down. They want to be an Olympic sport? PLEASE CLUE IN USAPA: PING PONG is an OLYMPIC sport DUE TO the ability of the player to completely control the shots with SPIN generated by STICKY
Leave the rules alone. Rules are already maxed out and effective. Serve should be a weapon. If I am playing against a good player, I want to serve my best and serve to score. If I am playing a less capable person, I don’t serve to score. Read the room!!!! I play for fun. It’s not fun to beat the crap out of some one. The professional player and the tournament players have taken the fun out of pickle ball.
Problem is with the pickleball serve rules. Too many players not following the 3 basic serve rules. Paddle head above the wrist, not in upward motion. These rules are impossible to enforce. When I told these players about their illegal serves, they said I only complained because I can’t handle it
Leave it alone. The serve should be weapon. It's not always about the spin or speed either... If you can place it on the line, its a tough return. Drop shots are a weapon...will those be banned next?
The rulers of the game sounds like the government who loves to mess up anything that people are enjoying! I really concur with your comment to not bang the ball hard to weak players. Don’t be a jerk! I have female friends who detest men doing that to them. Maybe we could offer the weaker player some options, sort of like hitting from the red tees in golf? Maybe like, everybody hits a drop serve during this game.
The other thing you have to think about is your are 4 foot in from the baseline, are you still requiring 2nd bounce? Of course you are, so Donna serving 4 foot inside the baseline who doesn't move back to baseline after her serve will get a ball launched at her and just take it out of the air or get hit with it, my point, thanks rules. Plus it makes Donna have to scoot backwards after every serve, sounds safer as well. My drop serve is quicker for me, you just have to have common sense when serving to a lower level player not to kill them with it. Maybe we should pitch underhanded in baseball to though? There is a reason this sport is blowing up in popularity, they should leave it alone.
I don't think the idea was to serve in 4 feet. It was to make the box smaller on the opposite side which would bring the receiver in 4 feet. ruclips.net/video/GjxDukzc6ek/видео.htmlsi=ILiYsM-BhxbPbmKb
It is strange that the worry is about strong serve but not hitting into body as it is common coaching advise in PB to hit to opponent body , preferably shoulder is not a concern. In tennis this is allowed but scandalous . Also, playing sport with score means playing to expose opponent weaknesses not to help them. If you want to help your opponent, then do practice with them. Otherwise you going to get used making easy shots and lose to opponent of your level. Best is to realize mismatch and finish game ASAP and leave to find your level. In tennis there is observation that if you play down in level you become down in level. Unfortunately this creates situations when people do not want to play open PB and do not invite weaker players even if they are capable but still mastering the game
Aiming for the body is (highly) frowned upon in tennis because a tennis ball can actually hurt someone. A whiffle ball is at most going to leave a small bruise, but usually won’t even do that.
Asking for people to not be jerks is a tall ask lol There are always going to be those who dont care and will use the excuses.....well I need to serve like this because I need to practice...I dont want to mess up my serve.
Where the heck did this recommendation come from? I believe changes need to be made with the game especially when it comes to types of chain saw serves, spins etc. But let this recommendation go way of the grave.
I'm not sure. If you watch, every year USAPA has a website where people can suggest rule changes. A lot of the changes I have seen in the past are from people that are unathletic or older and get discouraged from playing with people that are jerks. If I find myself playing an 80 year old lady, I am not going to continuously lob her. It takes the fun out of the game for her because she will never feel like she can compete. It also takes the fun out of it for me if I beat up on someone that is well below my skill level.
Leave it alone. Stop tweaking a thing that works already. Limiting paddle power is a good idea. There are always a few who will do what you said and hit it as hard as you can on the serve no matter what or who is on the other side of the net.
Dude, you know drop serves can be nasty too. Deaden the paddles is a good start, have more courts divided by skill level and of course always be able to read the room. Good video!
Yes, I think the drop serve can be deadly too, especially with more practice. I like the normal out of the air serve because it works best for me and I do believe it is a deadlier. I should make a video where I do 50 hits of both and see which one is more lethal.
More stupid rules being added. Its already a disadvantage to the serving team in Rec play that the receiving team has a player at the net. Like anything else, it will get micromanaged.
I hope they leave it alone for sure. Thanks for commenting as well. If you haven't subscribed, please do. I have some cool content and giveaways coming up.
I also hate when I used to play indoors and there are basketball lines. Thanks for commenting as well. I'm doing a big giveaway soon so make sure you subscribe so you can see when it happens.
Hold up, in every racquet sport, serving is an essential technique that creates opportunities for servers to make plays, since it is the only shot that is 100% controlled by a player. Why is there a need to de-weaponise a technique?? Sounds ridiculous.
Maybe they want to keep the reputation that pickleball is for old people. But we know the top pickleball players are actually very athletic.
@@RichardsWorld until recently it was for old people. It's only be like the last 10 years or so younger people have started. It use to be the average age was like 50+ now it's like 34 and most of the new players coming in are 18-24. I just started playing a few weeks ago. I'm 36 and love the game as is. You shouldn't be trying to destroy a 60+ year old person unless they are on your level. Play a nice casual game. Me and the guys I play with try to break each other's ankles. Lmao
This. I agree with this. It's the same with other racquet sports. The serve is the only shot which is entirely controlled by the player, and is used to set up opportunities for plays.
I know I'm basically repeating what you said, but you said it clearly and well ;)
If someone has trouble returning serves, it sounds like they need to work and improve on that skill.
I am one of those old (70) ladies that loves to play pickleball. I accept that there will always be players better than me. But there will also always be players that are not as good as me. Some of them are 20 years younger. Leave the game alone. Playing your best, in my opinion, is not always the kill shots or the ace serve. The best game is keeping the ball in play. Rallies that last several shots across the net, that’s what makes it fun. Rule changes are not fun!
@@brandonnorman5781 i agree with u..i also wonder if the new paddle tech is partly to blame
Leave it since 1965 it has been working. Don't rock the boat keep it simple. Play with your same ability players. Great video, thanks for providing your thoughts!!!!!
Why do they keep trying to change the game now when it is growing fast as it is. I don't see them changing the Tennis rules. They are going to ruin the game.
Just leave it alone! Play to your level and you will be fine.
Bro, the hardest people that serve to old people are old people 😂
TLDR: it's a silly idea and shouldn't be done.
As a coach, I’ve been in favor of going to a drop serve only. I’ve noticed a lot of players doing volley serves ABOVE their waist with their paddle head ABOVE their wrist. A much smaller percentage of volley servers hit “downward” (instead of from low to high according to the rules).
The drop serve eliminates the three rules of volley serving (below waist, upward motion, paddle head below wrist) and allows ANY method of contact AFTER the “dropped ball” (NOT SPEED BOUNCED) hits the surface.
The Drop serve is the ONLY change I’d like to consider to this beloved game.
It would add to creativity in serving (all spins and trajectories allowed), diminish the role of the “rule-following complainer” (no rules to violate or argue over) and POSSIBLY decrease the speed dominance of the volley serve.
Decreasing the service box area would harm the game immeasurably. It’s just another line on the court to confuse players or limit their chances of success.
I LOVE being an Ambassador of the game of Pickleball. I’m the guy who willingly partners with beginning players AND 91 year old Martha because I want all participants to know they are welcomed to play this great game.
Of course, I’ve had my share of “being pickled” moments in my three years of playing, but my “team” ALWAYS leaves the court with a smile and positive words of encouragement.
The Drop Serve--I’m IN!!!
I’ve been hitting a drop serve for two or three years and I have a rocket of a serve.
m
T McGuffin is big violator.
the only issue with the drop serve is that you can generate just as much, if not MORE Power on that serve because now you're able to fully get all the mechanics through the ball.
5 feet tall, Yes, but taller No. and we need to enforce if ball bounce too high or low.
@@KingKangUSA😵💫🤔🤔
Pickleball was designed for the serve to not be a weapon, hence the underhand motion, below the waist, etc. The paddle tech has advanced to such a level that, along with the proliferation of topspin as a common shot, has made the serve a weapon. Watching a game that is one serve and a return that is out or into the net is not good watching, and is one of the things affecting tennis as a spectator sport. The nuances of upper level play are much more interesting in pickleball. That being said, I am not in favor of this rule, but I do agree that deflection testing and capping the power and pop of paddles is a good idea. I believe that is in the works and they will probably either set the top end where they are now ir walk back those requirements over the next couple of years whereby paddle companies will know their newer paddles will have to adhers to tighter standards. Also, talk about old ladies and the sharp angle serve doesn't work as they still have the potential to face that, along with harder serves, and they have to run further to get to those angle serves.
There's never going to be a perfect solution but it seems to me that a drop/bounce serve would be the best compromise. It would certainly make life easier for the refs at the highest level of tourney play. Under the current rule it can be extremely difficult for a ref to determine if a serve was legal...and players like Tyson and Ben very often push the threshold to the extreme limit.
There never will be the perfect solution but I think we are at the closest to perfect right now. Millions of people have been playing this way for a long time and there has not been many issues. I should make a video though that shows 50-100 of the different serves and see which one is more lethal and which one is faster.
The same issue affected tennis and guess what, returners got better and the game came into balance again. The same thing will happen with Pickleball. As servers learn more offensive serves returners will learn to conquer them and the balance will return. Artificially trying to “make this balance” will not work and will only hurt the game’s progression. Leave it alone.
If it's going to change, I think the drop serve is enough to make a difference .
I don't think a drop serve really de-weaponizes the serve. I've only been playing for a month but I can absolutely pepper a drop serve. I use a drop serve because that's what felt most comfortable coming from racketball.
I’ve been using the drop serve since it was allowed and live it. I drop it very low and therefore it goes low over the net. Speed and pinpointing the serve is also good.
One thing I’ve noticed is that many. And I mean many, people either toss or propel the ball which is not legal in a “drop” serve, hence the name! You would think that people would review the drop serve rules before regularly using it.
I’ve been using the drop serve since it was allowed and love it. I drop it very low and therefore it goes low over the net. Speed and pinpointing the serve is also good.
One thing I’ve noticed is that many. And I mean many, people either toss or propel the ball which is not legal in a “drop” serve, hence the name! You would think that people would review the drop serve rules before regularly using it.
The reason is the height of the bounce. Unless you're extra short, the bounce won't even reach the height of your belly button so it will make flat serves much harder
I switched to the drop serve a year or so ago, I anticipated that sooner or later that would be the rule and I wanted to be ahead of curve. I'm very pleased with it.
Yes!!! I teach and tell all of my beginners that it is best to learn the drop serve for that exact reason!
For what reason to make a game easier cus some people can't play it at a high level? The game is fine. I just watched a video where some older women was killing some young dudes for most of the game. Them women was serving hard and playing hard . So what's the point
I agree with you. You can't de weaponize everything. Let's just play the game.
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Yeah let's change every pickleball court in the world to accommodate another dumb rule. Just enforce the current serve rules.
100 percent
What a stupid idea, just leave the game alone, I love the game but sick of all the BS with the players
Drop serve is probably the answer. I started playing with the drop serve a year ago and have stuck with it because I felt that they would eventually make this change. You can still get pretty good power if you move back a few feet. Let’s hope they don’t limit how far you can serve off the base line…no more lines 😂
Drop serve is the most neutral rule change without having to repaint lines on a court. High level players will figure out how to capitalize on hitting serves into a designated box. Cap paddle power makes sense, but you will always have players who can add mph using technique. Agree with common sense when playing with less gifted players, or players with mobility problems.
Watching KOTC today and Tyler was saying how James Ignatowich has good technique and hits the ball with max MPH. Like you said, I think no matter what you do, there will be someone that figures out how to capitilize.
I’m a tennis player that occasionally plays pickleball. The serve is my favorite part of the game and a good serve is essential to compete at higher levels. I get that in pickleball the appeal is the low barrier to entry and the simple serve makes that possible. One reason I don’t care for pickleball much is that my serve is no longer a weapon, like it is in tennis. If they passed this rule I might not ever want to play pickleball again. There is a reason for a rating system (3.0,4.0, etc). People should be competing with others at the same level.
For the most part I think people try to compete at the same levels but one place I typically play at always has different levels and frequently we will get an older person playing.
@@sirpauldouglass Yeah, the same happens in tennis, and, like you said, you ease up, which you should. I’m opposed to changing rules for the entire game just because of these situations.
Agree with you, including being sensitive to those that are less able. Well said
I like the drop serve only rule. It’s simple, can still generate power, and easy to judge. Checking the paddle’s performance (rebound, power, size etc) is also a good idea. It’s already done in tennis, so why not in pickleball? Keeps the lines as they are.
If they do this, Pickleball will die quickly. Making 5.0s into 1.0s is dumb.
In my opinion, moving the service line in pickleball would be equivalent to asking for jump serves to be illegal in beach volleyball. That would be boring.
As the server, it makes sense to have a reasonable opportunity to score on your first action. Your opponent’s job is to defend against the serve effectively and win back the serve.
From my understanding, the serve would still be behind the baseline. Only the receiver box would be different.
if the points just started on the return everyone would just let serves go until they got one that they could absolutely T-off on. Maybe it is because I come from a tennis background where I saw a lot of serves in the 110 to 120 range but a 50 mph pickle ball serve just doesn’t seem like a weapon even if it is really deep.
Hitting the front corner of the box is a great serve tactic. Leave the lines as they are. If anything, slow up the ball. One shot rallies would never sell TV contracts.
Knowing your opponent is a must in open rec. "Read the room" for sure.
People that agree with this stupid rule must be old and rusty, who always crying on the courts when playing against a good player that did everything completely legal. The best way to fix it is learn how to play better or just only play again people who are at the same level!!! Every sports are hard, that’s why it requires skill and training. What’s the point of make the game so easy, so everyone is qualified to play at the tournament? So what’s the point of a professional tournament then? Imagine paying to go to a tournament to see someone who can’t even return a serve. I bet you people who thought of this rule are not professional players, must be someone who wants to be a pro but can’t get better. 😂
Yeah, like the lob, some people just like to complain because they can't get to it. I think in rec play, better players can take a little spice off their serve. I play drop in all the time and I will frequently play against a team that is a 5.0 with a 3.5. I will hit hard to the 5.0 but hit a little softer to the 3.5 (unless I am losing) LOL
@@sirpauldouglass I’m someone that would get a big impact from this new rule if it ever came true because I mainly play single so serve is one of my biggest strengths. But when I played against someone who might not be as good at return my serve, I always tuned it down and have fun (unless I’m loosing like you said, lol) if they keep coming up with these type of stupid rules to limit people capabilities, this sport will become a talentless sport!!
As someone who can serve the ball across the court in two seconds and has messed around with extreme spin and fast serves, drop down serves are the superior serves. If you wanted to make serves slower, you would want to keep only the volley serve. The volley serve is considerably nerfed because of having to hit the ball below your hip, and do that without moving the ball up or down when beginning your serve stroke before dropping the ball. Even if you drew the extra lines on both sides and I had to serve in a small space in the middle, I could still nail a serve and make it go fast. Most of my serves go into the middle anyways because of how it is underdeveloped, and there is still plenty of room to juke with short and long serves. Even if they made serves useless with regulation, drives would still be on the table. Banning fast play will only make an off-branch of fast playing pickleball players that don't follow official rules.
I say "2" seconds, and this sounds like an exaggeration already, but I did the math on a different guy, ignatowich, and he can hit a serve and have the ball reach the other side in .73 seconds. A pickleball court is 44 feet long, 44 / .73 = 60.27 feet per second, x 60 = 3,616.2 feet per minute, x 60 = 216,972 feet per hour, / 5,280 ft = 41.1 MPH. This is in a casual game with a volley serve, you can't even hear the ball whistling in the video. I have no doubt that serves can get as fast as 50 something MPH because I have played against someone with a fast serve, and have learned to serve fast myself. While the ball whistling isn't necessarily equivalent to speed, I am confident that I can break 40mph on a serve. Here is a link to the video with ignatowich's serve, and a timestamp 0:53. You can see in the video that his serve is sub 1 second. I timed it with a stopwatch on my phone and got .73 seconds. I could probably get a more accurate time by screen recording and scrubbing, so I think I will add that in an edit.
edit: I got 0.79, a little more than I got with the stopwatch, that's still 38 MPH. edit: bad math
I've been to a few events where they were clocked with a radar gun. Most hard serves are over 40 mph while the faster ones were low to mid 50s. I bet Big Jimmy's are on that high end for sure.
@@sirpauldouglass I did the math wrong, its 44 / .70, apparently you can't inverse it and make it 1.30 x 44, so the speed is actually a little faster. I found that video and seeing how fast they can hit the ball with the radar gun, which makes me think I can break 60. Maybe I will post a video on this channel to see if my ego is correct the next time I go out.
@@unsilencedderp9411 I would love to see if you can do that but that is very fast. You might hit 60 but I doubt it is staying in. Let me know what happens.
100%
This new (proposed) rule is about the same as badminton where they also have a back service line limit but ONLY FOR DOUBLES, not in singles. The idea is that the purpose of the serve is ONLY TO START THE GAME and not used to weaponize the serve to make an easy point. As for adding a serving line limit on the sides is not really required as you are right that many will make many error serves given a smaller box to serve it in. However such rules should be applied depending on the level of play of the players and can do with or without it as like they say, pickleball should be fun.
Like the video. I have an idea. If they are trying to equalize the game on the first hit. Let the receivers decide on a net ball. Is it a redo or they can just play on. Problem with this is when is the redo instigated? After the hot? Before the hit? Before the ball lands after the hit? Or before the player hits it originally.
I actually like the idea of the 4ft service line although I doubt it will be implemented. The problem I find with many courts is there is not sufficient space behind the court and I can get jammed up when returning. This has been exacerbated by the new power paddles.
Deweaponise the serve????? Wtf. Next, they'll have to do the same for the return of serve, which can be hit as hard as you like into the full court. If your serve is good, then great, it may be your only weapon, so let's not take it away. Imagine doing this in tennis. Some of the big guys rely on their serve in order to win a high percentage of points which would potentially lose once a rally developes and they're not playing to their strengths.
If you're playing someone weaker and it's not serious, then get into the rally and practice some other shots that you may be weaker on, and don't just bludgeon the serve down for a cheap point.
I was watching my 65 year old sister play and a similarly aged but highly skilled man on the other team was putting some really good spin on the ball making it nearly impossible for the old ladies to return. This is where all the outcry for new rules comes from. Have some self respect!
Mandating a drop serve would not alter the game and would stop the complaints about high serves. On a positive note, the one serve rule and the two bounce rule get the game off to a great start that gives the returner a small advantage.
Bottom line is that all these rules are trying to de-sport Pickleball. And it’s a sport. And sport becomes competitive.
We need to make the game more athletic. People complain that it is an old man sport and is boring. There is a space for old and young but let's not ruin the most athletic by some dumb rules.
Make PB athletic by removing kitchen play. Ball in Kitchen loose the point. For less athletic, let them play at kitchen.
Every time a player become prooficient at a shot it becomes a weapon . . . Isnt that the idea in sports
Would requiring the serve swing motion be underhand in nature take away the ability to really puts any spin on the ball. The best anyone could weaponized it is via precision in where it lands. It is great when I play higher level players and they hold offf on shots they know I can't return and focus on hitting shots I can return but execute them so well it challenges their skills. It shows class on their part and is much appreciated.
I totally agree with giving Donna soft serves in rec play. But in tournament play, feel free to tee off on dear Donna 😂
I propose "No Dinking". Kitchen is as good as out. That will make the game more dynamic.
Excellent review of options/solutions. Leave the rules/lines etc alone. I’m not sure that the paddle technology should be limited-golf certainly hasn’t. Not sure on other racket type sports.
"What if we just start the point with the return?"
What a silly idea.
"Oh, I don't like his serve right now. I won't be able to make a good return.. I'll just let it fly by. Can't make a point with the serve."
I think you nailed it. It is an absolutely stupid idea. If you were a low level player playing with a higher level player then expect to get whipped. If you're high level player playing a low level player try to be nice.
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The best idea that you mentioned is to get some regulations on these paddles. There are way too many illegal paddles out there. These trampoline paddles that rocket a serve or volley are absurd.
I'm 77, 2.51, play 4-5 days a week at the local YMCA with fellow rec players.
My two cents: Current serve rules are mostly just right, except I'd make serves that hit the net a fault. Hate it when a serve hits the net, then sails a foot past the NVZ and falls in for a point
Yes, I throttle back when I'm playing a much weaker player or if we're ahead 8-2. But that's another subject, isn't it.
Good players will be able to drop that serve in with lots of topspin effectively creating LESS time for the receiver to react. The net effect of moving the line forward will weaponize the serve even more for good players.
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Drop serve but you can still get plenty of power on a drop serve as well as some insane slice.
I would go so far as to say that drop serves are superior to volley serves because of the extra time you have to wind up your body to hit a drop serve.
I get what you're saying but I think volley serves are more lethal. I am thinking about making a video where I hit 50-100 serves on both ways and see how fast and easy they are to keep in.
I like that ball machine but it's not on Amazon
I can see there being two problems that are pretty widespread that could be solved by actually having two changes. First you could do like a 3 ft line like they're suggesting (I think 4 ft is maybe too much cuz we don't want to make it too hard to hit a good servel.
And the second thing that you could do is just do the drop serve and that way you don't have all the difficulty calling illegal serves.
What you have to understand is that there are a number of courts that are in gyms or have fences where there's not a large area behind the service line. In many of these places just a high lobbying topspin serve is hard to even get to because of a fence or a wall. Or for that matter a severely sliced serve where you need space for the ball to come back up.
Limiting paddle design is going to be very hard to enforce so I dont see that being the best overall solution.
This dumb idea gives the receiver a 3-4' closer advantage against the the serving team. You could almost volley or overhead the serve! Leave it alone, stop trying to make everyone the same Tennis doesn't do this! Why are 5.0 playing hard against 3.0 anyway, don't kill grandma she makes good cookies!
This iis my argument exactly. Why would I want the oppoonent to be 4' closer to the kitchen?
I totally agree with you. Leave it slone
It's just a proposed rule. It won't happen. Mainly due to the cost and compliance of putting an additional line in. And it makes learning the game even more confusing. It won't get adopted.
Yeah, its just proposed but I wanted to have the discussion because collectively I think we have all voiced that it is a dumb idea. I made a little video of the line and with me actually serving into the box. ruclips.net/video/GjxDukzc6ek/видео.htmlsi=ILiYsM-BhxbPbmKb
Drop serve only will level out a lot of things and will prevent uncaught illegal serving
Thank you for posting this interesting video
I made a little video of the line and with me actually serving into the box. ruclips.net/video/GjxDukzc6ek/видео.htmlsi=ILiYsM-BhxbPbmKb
DROP Serves do not take much power off…I only drop serve and over time found by using some top spin I can crack a drop server at top power and often get it to drop inside the back line. I don’t think power on serves are a problem…it’s just too many people not ready for “Competitive” or “Advanced” signing up for those slots around the country and not liking how people play harder and hit harder. Sure, it can suck the first time you give it shot and feel like you can’t quite keep up with your opponents hand speed or their shot placement, but playing them let’s you know where you need to work on your game.
If we need to slow down the ball flight, I suggest we change the ball. It would be very easy to change the specs for the ball to make it, for lack of better words, more dead.
I would just hope that it didn't change the bounce while dinking.
I agree it's a problem of players playing other players of lower rating! At the end of the day if a 5.0 is playing a 5.0 then fairs fair right! People that are ultra competitive against old ladies have all kinds of issues!
I think it's a bad idea.
Is spin serve illegal?
Spin serve is illegal. Has been for a long time
You can still spin the serve, just not spin the ball with your hand prior to.
First, where did you hear this was being proposed, as I cannot find anyplace where it has.
Second, if the server line is 4ft shorter, I will stand 4ft closer, and it will be that much easier hit short cross court winning returns. Which would require the return to be in the same 4ft shorter area to deweaponize the return. Then you would have to allowed the server to cross the back line to get to the shorter return line, which would allow for harder short serves, re-weaponizing the serve the was just deweaponized.
There was lots of talk on social media about it being tested out. I don't think the server would come in 4 feet but it would allow the receiver to come in 4 feet and be that much closer to the NVZ.
Coming from the Tennis world this is a horrible idea. It's bad enough we only get one serve and have to serve underhand, now they want to shrink the service box. If the PPA officially makes this rule permanent then I'm out of the game. I'll go back to Tennis.
I find my ball is a foot in on my serve to base line is no differences to me. I think the field needs no change we can much with things to much.
Keep it the way it is!!! Serve is part of game. Learn to hit it!!
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Better players do not generally weaponize the serves. I see more mid level players try crazy serves. Much less successfully I may add. It’s good the way it is. Make it a drop serve. Makes it same for everyone every time.
That means as a serve returner I don't have to run fast to the kitchen plus I can crush the return or easily dink. I have more advantage now Woohoooo!!!
That’s what it seems like to me. It pulls the receiver in 4’ closer to the kitchen for some easier wins.
Here's an idea.. leave everything alone. If you are not having fun or complaining about your opponents serve, maybe you need your find easier opponents. Just sayin'. assuming they are serving legally.
The serve make it more fun.
The argument that it can make it more difficult for some to return can be made in any other part. For example we can required a speed limit for the drive, because can be to fast. Or to prohibit the smash after a fail third shot because is too hard to return !!!
Without the serve then why not to start in kitchen and do just dinking. We can called dinking ball!
This is a good discussion. USAP is doing a disservice to the debate when they talk about 'de-weaponizing' the serve without explaining the fundamental reason why that's even a consideration. My understanding is that the reason USAP could be legitimately concerned about the impact of new tech enabling highly powerful serves is that it flips the balance of advantages built into the game: the serving team has the advantage they can score, but the receiving team has the advantage that they can move to the NVZ sooner. If serves get "too big" then it could come to pass that the serving team has a sort of double advantage and the receiving team is at an extreme disadvantage. So it's not about old ladies or not wanting to compete or anti-tech etc, it's about the structure of the game. I'm in favor of heavy serves - I serve hard and I'm using the Joola Perseus Mod - so count me in the power group but I get why USAP has to evaluate the impact on the game.
Should I make a video of a game or two with the lines taped down and see how it would play out?
@@sirpauldouglass definitely!
Leave it the hell alone. It’s already got too many convoluted rules. It’s a game.
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if deweaponizing the serve is the point I would think the drop serve would be a good idea. I was thinking that they could drop the mph's that a serve could reach. say it can't be over 50 or 55 mph. But there isn't really that many pros who really have a big serve. Most of them are men or the younger players from tennis. the only other option I'm thinking is if they change the ball, making it softer. it's a catch 22 situation
Setting a mph limit is extremely impractical, which is way changing the serving rules is a more practical way of achieving the same result. I don’t think the serve needs to be de-weaponized at all, but just wanted to clarify the logistics.
Wait so everyone has to not enjoy serving to please people who could a) play within their ability or b) not be jerks when they play with lower mobility oponents
Great video!
How can we change the rules so we can eliminate foursomes that are woefully mismatched in skill levels? This is what we are talking about isn't it? First you have to define the problem before you can solve it.
Some places I see have designated courts for higher and lower levels. Where I live, we do not have certain designations and older people will get mixed with the younger and stronger. When this happens the more skilled could easily back off power a liittle.
Why is there a need to de-weaponize the serve? Sounds ridiculous to me. I'm short and I play against giant ppl that can stand at the kitchen line and weaponize the return at me. I have to try and barely clear the net to defend against them. I have been told, "your serve is scary" and have backed off, and even lost games because of a gentle serve. I've had ppl tell me they took classes to better themselves against hard serves and drives, now they are better and return them. I say, read the room and play friendly but I don't think they need to dumb down the game. Sounds ridiculous to me and since I'm an amateur player, the pros out there need to push back on the PPA, etc..
They should push back. When Ben Johns or Ignatowich are getting their hard serves going, they need all that room. It should be a weapon. My girlfriend is a 4.0- 4.5 and I have never taken it easy on her with serves and she has learned to play with them. I'm not saying to go crazy on an old lady but I think most players should and will better themselves with harder hits.
If you're trying to de-weaponize the serve, rather than adding lines (base &/or side) on the court, why not experiment with raising the net. You could have a standard tournament height, a suggested recreational height, a senior height, etc... Volleyball has a different net height for men and women without changing the court dimensions.
That is an interesting idea actually but I think you would get much more pushback. Everyone would have to learn how to dink, drive and drop differently.
@@sirpauldouglass Easy to set-up and try to see if it's a possibile solution. The dink, drive & drop may be just a minor adjustment to your skills depending on how high the net is raised. This effects players equally on both sides of the net,
I think if you serve too fast for your opponent- should be a point penalty maybe even a DQ right on the spot
Imagine Federer asking Isner to serve nicer so they can play some points… tennis anyone?
They're just doing it because it's cheaper LOL. If they regulate the paddles, they'd probably get sued by all the paddle companies
I do wonder how many lawsuits would happen if they banned 100 paddle companies.
@@sirpauldouglass I don't think they'd banned the companies outright.
But they do pay a fee to get their paddles approved and if the governing pickleball bodies deem all the previous paddles that were approved were too "lethal" then those companies would probably get mad.
USAPA / PPA keeps dumbing down the game in order to increase the market $$$. Now they're attacking the serve (no pun intended)? The paddle surface debate is another example where they keep dumbing it down. They want to be an Olympic sport?
PLEASE CLUE IN USAPA: PING PONG is an OLYMPIC sport DUE TO the ability of the player to completely control the shots with SPIN generated by STICKY
wow... hmm I'm not big fan of this rule
Leave the rules alone. Rules are already maxed out and effective. Serve should be a weapon. If I am playing against a good player, I want to serve my best and serve to score. If I am playing a less capable person, I don’t serve to score. Read the room!!!! I play for fun. It’s not fun to beat the crap out of some one. The professional player and the tournament players have taken the fun out of pickle ball.
Problem is with the pickleball serve rules. Too many players not following the 3 basic serve rules. Paddle head above the wrist, not in upward motion. These rules are impossible to enforce. When I told these players about their illegal serves, they said I only complained because I can’t handle it
Leave it alone. The serve should be weapon. It's not always about the spin or speed either... If you can place it on the line, its a tough return. Drop shots are a weapon...will those be banned next?
The rulers of the game sounds like the government who loves to mess up anything that people are enjoying!
I really concur with your comment to not bang the ball hard to weak players. Don’t be a jerk! I have female friends who detest men doing that to them.
Maybe we could offer the weaker player some options, sort of like hitting from the red tees in golf? Maybe like, everybody hits a drop serve during this game.
The other thing you have to think about is your are 4 foot in from the baseline, are you still requiring 2nd bounce? Of course you are, so Donna serving 4 foot inside the baseline who doesn't move back to baseline after her serve will get a ball launched at her and just take it out of the air or get hit with it, my point, thanks rules. Plus it makes Donna have to scoot backwards after every serve, sounds safer as well.
My drop serve is quicker for me, you just have to have common sense when serving to a lower level player not to kill them with it. Maybe we should pitch underhanded in baseball to though? There is a reason this sport is blowing up in popularity, they should leave it alone.
I don't think the idea was to serve in 4 feet. It was to make the box smaller on the opposite side which would bring the receiver in 4 feet. ruclips.net/video/GjxDukzc6ek/видео.htmlsi=ILiYsM-BhxbPbmKb
@@sirpauldouglass oh ok, I definitely got that wrong then 😆. Thanks for clarification.
I agree leave things alone better players have some common sense when playing with lower level players
Keep it the same or go back to wooden paddles.
Not wood. LOL
It is strange that the worry is about strong serve but not hitting into body as it is common coaching advise in PB to hit to opponent body , preferably shoulder is not a concern. In tennis this is allowed but scandalous .
Also, playing sport with score means playing to expose opponent weaknesses not to help them. If you want to help your opponent, then do practice with them. Otherwise you going to get used making easy shots and lose to opponent of your level. Best is to realize mismatch and finish game ASAP and leave to find your level. In tennis there is observation that if you play down in level you become down in level. Unfortunately this creates situations when people do not want to play open PB and do not invite weaker players even if they are capable but still mastering the game
Aiming for the body is (highly) frowned upon in tennis because a tennis ball can actually hurt someone. A whiffle ball is at most going to leave a small bruise, but usually won’t even do that.
Asking for people to not be jerks is a tall ask lol
There are always going to be those who dont care and will use the excuses.....well I need to serve like this because I need to practice...I dont want to mess up my serve.
Creating a serve line is not a great idea. It will stifle the game.
A smaller serve box would give the receiving team even more advantage…they can get to the kitchen even faster. Don’t do this. It’s fine the way it is.
This is one of my biggest concerns. I made a video showing were the line might be. ruclips.net/video/GjxDukzc6ek/видео.htmlsi=ILiYsM-BhxbPbmKb
Play people of or near your standard and it's not a problem. Let the power players play each other at the higher level. Leave the game alone
I will change the game - the game does not need changing
Where the heck did this recommendation come from? I believe changes need to be made with the game especially when it comes to types of chain saw serves, spins etc. But let this recommendation go way of the grave.
I'm not sure. If you watch, every year USAPA has a website where people can suggest rule changes. A lot of the changes I have seen in the past are from people that are unathletic or older and get discouraged from playing with people that are jerks. If I find myself playing an 80 year old lady, I am not going to continuously lob her. It takes the fun out of the game for her because she will never feel like she can compete. It also takes the fun out of it for me if I beat up on someone that is well below my skill level.
Men who hit the ball the same to all type of players are week. When playing mixed doubles I know men who can't seem to hit but one type of serve.
Leave it alone. Stop tweaking a thing that works already. Limiting paddle power is a good idea. There are always a few who will do what you said and hit it as hard as you can on the serve no matter what or who is on the other side of the net.
Isn’t the whole idea of the game is to win?
old Donna, really? Good luck to you superman! :-)
Let's just make like baseball and we all use wooden paddles. That's how it was intended from the beginning.
Interesting idea
more lines for disputed bad line calls ? great
Dude, you know drop serves can be nasty too. Deaden the paddles is a good start, have more courts divided by skill level and of course always be able to read the room. Good video!
Yes, I think the drop serve can be deadly too, especially with more practice. I like the normal out of the air serve because it works best for me and I do believe it is a deadlier. I should make a video where I do 50 hits of both and see which one is more lethal.
More stupid rules being added. Its already a disadvantage to the serving team in Rec play that the receiving team has a player at the net. Like anything else, it will get micromanaged.
proposed for right now so I hope they don't move forward with it.
Leave it alone. They will ruin a fun game. Just leave it alone. Some people are better that is just the way it is.
I hope they leave it alone for sure. Thanks for commenting as well. If you haven't subscribed, please do. I have some cool content and giveaways coming up.
No more lines!!!! Examples of too many lines that confuse you is a tennis court w Pickle lines.
I also hate when I used to play indoors and there are basketball lines. Thanks for commenting as well. I'm doing a big giveaway soon so make sure you subscribe so you can see when it happens.
This is a bad idea. The regular serve from below your waist should make it fair. It is not like tennis with an overhead
People crying because the game is evolving