Reliable Electric 48V 3000W PSW Inverter Acting Unreliable: Rated DC Input 40V-60V OVD @ 55V
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All I know is what I see on the internet. I believe that Andy at the Offgrid Garage balances his cell at 3.45 volts. With your 16 cells = 55.2 volts. Over that you are chasing 1-3 % of capacity. I would check out Andy's channel.
Yes, but you have to program the BMS to balance down there for that to work. Not sure the BMS is even accessible in that battery but even if it is it's probably a bad idea to mess with it in this particular case.
@@junkerzn7312 @Off-Grid Garage Andy does his testing with single cells, don’t think it has a BMS.
@@OrchardHomeNOFL Andy's battery banks are DIY but yes they do have BMSs and he does carefully configure their parameters in order to dial-in his lower charge targets.
It requires a lot of work and testing to make sure things work properly because they often don't with certain BMSs (even for Andy, as regular watchers of his channel know). Do we want to visit these extremely technical fine-tuning issues onto DIYers everywhere when there is basically no gain or advantage to doing that level of tuning? I certainly don't.
-Matt
I just watched those videos. You are correct and I also have been overcharging my battery. Now reducing my boost times and boost voltage to... less
I have the same Inverter they are very good inverters but they used cheap voltage display parts mines went blank on the ac display. The way I fixed it is opening it up and unplugging the display board and power wires also, If I'm not mistaken there is a way to adjust the high and low voltage cut off its somewhere on the board there is a (color blue component) with a small flat head adjuster on top. They used hot glue so no one can adjust those settings. I believe it can even be adjust to turn off at 20% battery live voltage.
Mine died after 6 months and was a nightmare trying to get the warranty claim from reliable. Trashed it and Upgraded to 6000xp and never looked back. Think your best bet would be to just leave at 55v
Good Morning ! I don't know enough. But I sure am paying ATTENTION ! Good luck Bob. TAKE CARE..
I down loaded the manual for that inverter. 61.2V is over voltage shut down. You have a problem with that inverter . May want to swap that out on contact them.
Standard electronic components commonly used are selected for economic cost. So, most 48 Volt economy built high frequency inverters like this should operate near these same specifications:
Input over-voltage shutdown 62 ± 1VDC
Input under-voltage shutdown 38 ± 1VDC
Input under-voltage alarm 39.2 ± 1VDC
Over temperature protection 149 ± 8°F
Looking forward to seeing what that all-in-one does for you. More power to ya, Bob!
As long as you top balance every 3 or 4 month it should be fine . You do not need to bring a lithium iron phosphate battery to 100 % charge like you do to a lead acid battery . 98 % would be lots giving you plenty of wiggle room .
I'm having a similar situation with a 12 Volt 1000 watt Xantrex ProSine Inverter. I think we are triggering the BMS overload shutdown and the voltage is spiking as the CC cant clamp down as fast as the BMS. This momentary spike is triggering higher than the Inverters can handle. Boosting at 14.4 Volts for 100 minutes ( It overloads the inverter about 30 mins- 1 hour in) I never see the voltage on my battery monitor go over 14.6 Volts but the Xantrex is rated for 16 Volts. The MT50 showed a spike to as high as 32 Volts!!!
@3:47 the Voltage is 55.37V then @3:49 the Voltage went down to 42.41V which then the inverter alarm went off, it does not look like the over Voltage condition but more likely the battery BMS has gone into shutdown, may be due to one of the cell has gone too high Voltage, that is why the Voltage went down to 42.41V,. Does that battery have Bluetooth so you see what the Voltage of each cell is and any recorded alarm.
U need to put a multimeter on it to see what the actual voltage on the battery and at the inverter. That will pin point without a load on the inverter
@@timlochner9147 This will confirm the issue but you can actually graph the voltage on the victron app. The app will also show the maximum voltage seen on the history tab. I had this issue as did Andy at the off-grid garage I believe. It is just a thing between solar charge controllers and battery bms's.
How long have you had that inverter? Less than a year in service??? I would ask the manufacturer to look at it since you are a RUclips influencer. Have fun stay safe.
I went and checked an American Inverter Manufacturer. They have problems with their designs tripping during charging too. They recommend not using the inverter during charging. ( I'm not satisfied with this because the specifications are misleading 🤔:():
Hi , if you look closely at the video , it looks like it is the battery BMS cutting right went the alarm sound ? maybe BMS hitting cell over voltage protect? the voltage of the battery is dropping right went the alarm sound , that sound to me the reason of why the inverter is sounding a alarm and stay on because of the charge controller maintain the voltage.
At 16:54 I saw the victron app show the battery voltage dipping down to 47.30v.
I would guess the BMS is cutting off, but I suppose it's also possible that the inverter might be dumping a sudden load on the rail for whatever reason (actually that would probably blow a fuse to take it that low, so maybe not. Would want to measure voltage between the inverter and battery (and victron volt meter) to clarify that).
Great video
Bob , i can almost guarantee this is an internal cell balancing issue, and has nothing to do with your inverter.
Best way to solve this ( and this will take a while, since the BMS only has a 200mv passive balancer that only works when charging).
1. Disable tail current
2 set charge voltage to 56 and set absorb to minimum of 5 hours
If the BMS doesn't shutdown, change charge voltage to 56.8 and again absorb for 5 hours, if BMS does shutdown, discharge about 30 amps and repeat step 2 untill it doesn't shutdown anymore
Seeing any voltage spikes in the victron history? If not, it seems like an inverter problem. Components do age and deteriorate, especially if the design was marginal (i.e. the component specifications exactly what is needed, or maybe under-spec'd but they'll work for a while).
For what it's worth I have my 48 volt system set to 57.6 volts Absorption and 54.4 volts Float. Running Victron charge controller, Victron inverter and three 100 Ah LifePo4 batteries. It sounds like you inverters upper limit voltage could be a little to sensitive.
Hi and how are you doing. I had a couple of those reliable inverters and they didn't last, overtime they just stop working and what alway happen is the voltage regulator malfunction are the power mosfets gives out so I just got rid of them. Well as you said it server you for couple of years.
Same problem here. Transistor inverters do not like the topping out peak flash. I have a 3200 high frequency inverter and a 1200 Victron low frequency both 24 volt hooked to same 230 amp hr batteries- 2 - 12 volt in series. I’m getting a 35.17 volt flash. The low frequency 1200 Phoenix never misses a beat where the high-frequency shuts off. I think when I add 2 more batteries it will help absorb the flash., that just my theory. Low frequency is the only way to go.
Hi, i have just got a starter kit (as in one of your videos) but with a Victron 100/30 charge controller with 2x 100 w panels and i was wondering if i should run the panels in series or parallel .
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Keep up your great work.
Thank you.
John W.
I'm pretty sure that there is a way internally. I have a handful of reliables at home. On my way back from Hawaii. There is a voltage calibration vr in there I'm sure.
Check the wires from the battery to the inverter take them off clean up the contact point tighten up it could also be the voltage sensing circuit in the inverter normally a capacitor going
hi BOB that is where my diy battery like to be 13.3 after day light it will stay at 13 3 till we check out for the night
I hate to ask but does the inverter have a LiFePo4 setting to select?
Two things from my own experience, the voltmeter on the shunt is pretty reliable, at least, in my case, with two of the same meter shunts. The shunt voltage matches my fluke meter within 0.01 V. Secondly I have a reliable 24V 1500 W inverter that went into overvoltage and never reset itself. Everything else is fine except the overvoltage trip is stuck. When I was still running AGM batteries, I began using Aims 1500W inverters as they have a higher overvoltage threshold. 32V as compared to 30V. These are bothe still operating on LiFePO4.
With LiFePO4, my last two inverters are Victron 24V 1200 VA inverters. (One in use, one still in the box). Like you, I run multiple individual systems for redundancy. And am currently building my first 48V system with Victron charge controller and inverter. Previous charge controllers are epever, the only problem I have had with the EP ever charge controllers is the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth dongle’s have been a high failure item.
What do u run on the victron, wanting the same or the reliable 2500.
@@javiercoronel1169 I have a 30 year old side by side refrigerator freezer and my internet system. Powered by 2 LiTime 24V 100Ah batteries. I have not ran anything else on it, but I need to try the shopvac to see how it responds.
🇨🇦🇨🇦 I have a VEVOR system a 3000 W 12 V inverter 50 amp charge controller for the last couple days. I was having the same problems as you but also I noticed my app had a glitch. It had to be fixed, but my volts were going too high I had to knock it down, the last couple days just like you I am thinking something is going on with these smart apps. Are they perhaps controlling them from the satellite and playing games on us don’t know my inverter was beeping over voltage protection. I see people are having problems all over the place lately with all kinds of equipment specially the smart equipment. Don’t know what to think.
It could be the capacitors in the inverter
indeed those are the first usually to go bad.
These batteries are not on the website anymore but the 48v they have has a charge voltage of 54± 0.75V. I think the charge is too high for a 48v battery. The BMS will only balance with 0.6A to 2A max and that's not a lot to share between 16 cells. Also the overvoltage of the inverter is 55.5V on the website.
My brother i had the same problem 3 weeks ago. My battery 🔋 pack is diy so I used some resisters and balance the pack. I haven't had the problem since. I don't charge my batteries above 56.6v though.
Use a BMS, and make sure it's good quality.
@@jimmybrad156 There is a Dally BMS on it the balancing is so slow though and the active balancer I ordered is taking its own sweet time getting here so I just do what I have to do.
95% chance it is a balancing issue with battery. Lowering the charge target will only make it worse because one cell is over-volting and the BMS probably won't begin balancing at that low a voltage. So the cells just get more and more out of balance.
The charge controller is trying to charge the battery AND run the loads when the inverter is on. It can't track the inverter when the battery disconnects... charge controllers are not highly-regulated power supplies. So it will constantly overshoot without the battery if you have any decent load on the inverter.
When the battery trips off due to the unbalanced cell over-voltage, the charge controller over-shoots before it is able to stop charging and return to its charge target. The overshoot causes the voltage to exceed the inverter's cut-off voltage (probably over 60V for a second or two before the charge controller is able to turn off. And that kicks the inverter off). This will cycle over and over again due to the variable load on the inverter.
Use a charge target of 56.8V (3.55V/cell x 16) and hold it there for a few hours. Charge target 56.8V, turn OFF the current tail, set the absorption time to 2 hours. You can temporarily increase the Float to 56.8V too if you want to hold it there longer and let the battery balance its internal cells for a good long time. It might take a few hours or a day or two worth of cycling for the battery to get back into balance.
Once the battery has balanced its internal cells it will no longer trip-off and cause the charge controller to overshoot.
Generally speaking when you don't have control over the battery's BMS configuration, the charge target should be at least 56.0V (3.50V/cell x 16) to ensure that the battery's balancing algorithm starts. Once everything is balanced I recommend:
Charge target 56.8V (3.55V/cell x 16)
Float 54.0V (3.375V/cell x 16)
Current tail turned off
Absorption time set to 2 hours
After a week of regular charging to 100%, reduce absorption time to 1 hour and given that I think this might be the second time this has happened, I would just leave the absorption time at 1 hour indefinitely.
-Matt
edits: "charge controller probably won't begin balancing" duh, meant to be "BMS probably won't being balancing".
Also, given the age of the battery, the BMS might have an old firmware in it and not be programmed properly. Its quite possible that it only balances the cells when charging current is present (old style BMSs did this), in which case you would have to cycle the battery quite a bit with the charge target to get it back into balance. e.g. charge to 100%, drain to 90%, charge to 100%, drain to 90%, etc.
The shunt is probably also significantly off at this point too so go by what the victron charge controller says instead of relying on the shunt.
-Matt
Hats off to this advice.
BMSs with bluetooth monitoring show their usefulness in this type of diagnosis.
@@junkerzn7312 I had a problem like Bob, but I have a DIY battery system with Daly BMS I changed to the 3.55v as you noted, and all good for the past 24 hours. Thanks for your post I think it helped me 🤙
Yeah, it looks like your inverter is on the way out. I don't have any experience with 48 volt, but I've had some 12 volt inverters that shut off at 15, so going 14.6 for my float charge was too much. I am running at 14.4 now on that system. And 14.6 on a single battery system. I found that you want as close to the max as you can get to balance your batteries or your cells.
Puna humidity appears to eat 1st floor inverters.
Inverter should have lower Volt than battery monitor, if setting is 100AH in battery monitor it could be the explanation for the difference. But do agree that it seems like the inverter is ready for replacement.
My fridge turns of .. at 380 watts .. with a 2560 watt battery .. so i think its current not charging up to 200 amps .. 2 hours absorption .. so i change to 6 hours absorption
I think it's voltage is good .. but when solar power goes down I see 48 volts .meaning current not charging high enough .. more absorption . 6 or 8 hours .. .
You could ask Signature Solar to send you a EG4 3000EHV-48 Off-Grid Inverter 3,000 Watt Output with 5,000 Watt PV Input at 500 VOC Input
Aloha I'm having a similar thing with my 4000 watt. I by no means know anything, but after watching I found a video of someone dismantling an inverter. I saw that it had a potentiometer with adjustment screw (small blue qube box about a 1/4" square). On my generator I bought a new thing it also had a potentiometer that I had to adjust to get the proper voltage out of the plugs. Adjusting might do something does anyone else know about this type of thing? Might be something to look into????
Prob the BMS shutting off because of a full cell (needs balancing), leaving the solar inverter powering the inverter, causing the voltage to whip around.
@@jimmybrad156 I have a DIY battery system that has a Daly BMS I have use the app to adjust the battery voltage from the default setting of 3.60 down to 3.55 as suggested in one of these posted comments (comment also noted by Bob in his next video) and now all is good, no more warning ⚠️ sounds and no more shutdown for the past 24 hours.
Bob in his next video is trying to do a top balance, hope it works out. I'm glad I could make changes to and in my BMS.
It said 45 volts when the inverter kicked off, test your batteries or try another set.
Definitely inverter issue. Should have never dropped below battery voltage.
Probably BMS disconnecting due to an overcharged cell, leaving the solar charger and inverter to whip the voltage around.
so why not set it to 48v?? it is a 48v inverter. im new to solar. getting ready to build soon. trying to learn as much as i can before i build
Its normal a 48 volt = 55.2 volt in charging mode .
A car battery is 12 volt but in charge mode its 14.6 volts .
So its fine .
@dyslectische ooooh gotcha thx, gonna screen shot this for future reference, for when I start my build
@@OperationGetReady just look at solar build videos alot,so you dont screw up:)
@@OperationGetReady thare is a forum special for it .
Name is
Diysolarforum
@@83kaszas yep been doing that for some time, but this is an issue i have not seen yet. i didnt even know i had to set the volts on the charge controller
I think your battery is going into over voltage protection. On partly cloudy days the charge controller struggles to regulate the voltage when the battery is very nearly full. The battery bms is shutting off the battery and the inverter is trying to run purely from solar which is why it's going haywire. Part of the issue is that the battery is practically full so to be honest all you can do is reduce the voltage until it becomes stable. Other things you could try is to put a small constant load on the inverter or battery to try and take the peaks off the voltage spikes. Maybe the battery contains a few weak cells which are prone to going over voltage. You could also alter the settings so it goes into float much faster. If you look at your voltage graph from the charge controller you'll probably see that the problem is happening in the very steep part of the charge curve and also you should see the battery voltage goes haywire when the bms disconnects. I'm not sure whether the cells in the battery are derated but it maybe that you have to treat them as charged at lower voltage and rely on the amp hours to judge if you are getting full capacity.
Yeah would be nice to see the cell voltages individually,but this is not how a BMS behaves.If the batery reaches a high voltage and triggers the BMS,than what happens is only that the BMS prohibits charging,but not discharging,it has smart switches and relays in theme,so since it allows discharge,it would not trigger the inverter(for the inverter power never went off),and the inverters native consume,and the balancer working in the BMS are more than enough to take off any voltage spikes that happens for some seconds maybe.Even if the battery cells are not perfectly balanced,but the over all voltage is 55V the inverter doesnt know the difference.Also all inverters should be accepting a 57.6 volt peak minimum,since that the max you can charge a LIFEPO4 battery usually(thats what BMS allows if all cells are balanced).I would say,as i said above,the voltage sensor,or the inverter itself starts to get faulty...
@@83kaszas What happens is that since the battery disabled charging, the charger controller winds up just charging the wire and trying to run the inverter directly, regulated only by the inverter's input capacitor. Charge controllers are NOT power supplies. They do not have heavily regulated outputs and can't track the variable load on the inverter.
Clouds don't really matter at all. Charge controllers just don't have a well regulated output... that's one reason why they can be so efficient in fact. And it is also why there needs to be a battery there accepting current to handle the constant overshooting and undershooting of the charge controller.
-Matt
@@83kaszas that's not my experience with the BMS. Admittedly I don't think I had a load on the battery but the BMS was definitely disconnecting the cells as the voltage readout was all over the place. You can see in the video both under and over voltage happening which means the inverter and the charge controller are not connected to the cells. If they were connected to the cells they would show the pack voltage.
@@junkerzn7312 again in my experience these voltage overshoots tend to happen when the panel is cooled by a passing cloud and then exposed to full sun plus the reflected light off the clouds. The panel goes from low output to in excess of it's rated output in about a second, the near full charge cells go over voltage and the BMS shuts down. The fault really lies with the victron charge controller which should allow you to limit the absorption current. I would suggest allowing it to go to float much quicker as the problem shouldn't happen at float voltage. Also if you have a victron smart shunt and you set up smart networking then the shunt can share voltage and current information with the charge controller which helps give a more accurate performance from the charge controller as it compensates for voltage loss in the cables. It is really a short coming of the charge controller as much as anything, it's not designed to work with a BMS.
@@matthewwakeham2206 You might be right,i dont deny it,the cell voltages should be checked thats for sure,becouse 55V is not that high,but if the individual cells are not balanced perfectly,the BMS can trip from monomer overvoltage too,to protect them.I just had to deal with my seploss BMS bateries,by adding a separate Neey smart balancer to the batery...
55 is lots 3.4375 per cell which is lots high enough to get more than 90% of the capacity and still balance the cells.
Spec on the battery shows 54 +/- 0.75 as the charging voltage
@@offgridwanabe I can't find the spec anywhere but it can't be 54V +/- 0.75V. That's an impossibly low charge target for a 16s LiFePO4 battery.
@@junkerzn7312 I got that off their site chart Power Queen 48 volt
Rated Voltage
51.2V
Charging Voltage
54±0,75V
Rated Capacity
100Ah
Usable Capacity
100Ah
Energy
5120Wh
Max. Continuous Load Power
5120W
Max. Continuous Discharge Current
100A
Peak Discharge Current (1 seconds)
600A
BMS
200A
Dimension
10.59 x 20.47 x 8.66 inch
Weight
81 lbs
@@offgridwanabe Its the 90Ah battery, not the 100Ah battery. But where are you getting this spec sheet from?
Regardless, a 51.2V nominal LiFePO4 battery is a 16s battery. I think we verified it was 16s like a year or two ago, didn't we? No 16s LiFePO4 battery has a charge target of 54.0V. A float voltage, sure. A charge target, no.. that's too low.
A 48.0V nominal LiFePO4 battery is a 15s battery. In that case 54.0V is actually high in terms of being a charge target (3.60V/cell).
So something in that spec is wrong. Either the nominal voltage is wrong or the charge target is wrong.
I think we verified that this particular battery (in the video) was a 16s battery a year or two ago, didn't we? It's marked as one.
-Matt
I don’t think the problem is your inverter. I think it might be the charge controller.🇨🇦🇨🇦 My opinion, my system is doing the same thing except I have a different brand
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell.
Yup. Looks like time for another inverter. Be well. Aloha.🍍
It's likely to be the BMS disconnecting due to one cell getting overcharged, leaving the solar charger powering the inverter momentarily.
Battery not holding charge
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell.
Those 7 segment voltage displays are notoriously inaccurate especially if it was calibrated for a different voltage. Check the back of the display and see if there is a tiny pot you can turn to calibrate it. If not swap it out with a similar one that you've calibrated. Should be very simple.
I wouldn't bother with any testing of the inverter or anything else until you've opened up that battery and checked balance of cells by hand. Until you know that the pack can top balance up to 3.55-3.60V uniformly then you are really playing with too many unknown variables doing all this testing.
Looks like the battery pack or a group of cells within it are sagging under load
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell.
Your batteries are full. Why are you still messing with them? If it ain’t broke don’t fix them!
Looks like inverter trouble . the Reliable Electric inverter should be 60 v for over voltage shut down. Look up data on that. them contact Reliable Electric Tech support and let them know what that is doing. link this video. For now swap to outher 48V and see how that goes with the correct settings for battery . Been crazy in NY buy me. Hurricanes from Texas got us good. we on national news. Ok hear but just a mile away in Eden NY. house lost roof and trees down everywhere. a barn destroyed and a car flip to side with a old lady in side. She ok. only damage to car was the mirror ! . Lots of scary video. we look like Kansas . The odd one was Apples where blown off tree and into a house thru window. The odd part is apple tree is fine ninus apples and the house nest damaged and lost part of roof and the outher tree that bigger flipped over. just a few feet away no damage at all. Grid down all over but most back on but a few in NY, But Texas, Houston area still has over 1 million with out power from same system . outher states got it bad as well. path of destruction from Texas to NY into canada. This was a cat 5 Hurricane at biggest before made land fall 2 times. once before Texas. This is why off grid power is so important.
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell, leaving the voltage unstable 16:54.
@@jimmybrad156 possible . have to swap 48V battery to test. usually the victron app will show a voltage spike when that happens . With inverter off battery charges fine. have to swap battery and or inverter to test. Note history of battery shows no voltage spike. so yes more testing needed !
Inverter looks suspicious. I hate inverters. They always wear out. DC direct when possible. U may consider smaller inverter since u only have fridge/freezer. And of course victron ha ha needed where possible.
Aloha
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell.
For the love of god get a DVM! Even a moderatly priced one is accurate. Your inverter is probaly the most suspect as for accuracy .
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell. Victron app shows voltage whipping around 16:54
Thanks for the video but something is going wrong. Ever day I subscribe the next day I’m unsubscribe again.
My experience has been that most things solar prematurely fail. From solar panels, connectors, BMSs, and Inverters, they all start to fail prematurely.
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell.
Of course you're having problems with this cheap, high frequency, transformerless inverter. They're all junk and have short life expectancies. Even the big name brand transformerless inverters are junk. If you want to avoid these problems. then you need to install a low frequency, transformer based inverter.
Prob BMS disconnecting due to overcharged cell.
@@jimmybrad156 He said that he's getting an over voltage alarm. If it was an over charged cell and the BMS was disconnecting, then the inverter would simply shut down.
@@Madsci-zy8wm over voltage probably from solar charger suddenly getting disconnected from the BMS.
Set the vectren to charge the battery to 52 volts your inverter doesn't like the higher voltage so you're going to have to top your batteries off about 52 volts and leave it be happy
Prob the BMS cutting off due to inbalanced cell, leaving only the inverter and solar charger, which explains the voltage whipping around.