I think why this works is the fact that your are putting it first but after dialing in your processing, am pretty sure letting it inform the mixing (subsequent processing decision) might not have the feel and movement it has in contrast to running it in as an effect as in this case. Just for context, if you put a compressor second there's the temptation to kill all that movement and vibe with the release settings. On the flip side you could still get movement in parallel with by sidechaining, modulation, distortion and whatnot but that could be a lot of work anyways great tip!
Couldn't you achieve this same thing with a send? You could put a compressor after the reverb on your aux channel and side chain it to the vocal so it ducks the reverb whenever the vocal is going. I've been doing that with delay for years, but I don't see why it wouldn't work to achieve this effect with reverb.
@@CFox.7 I think that depends, I’ve met other engineers that like to use reverb directly on track. But I prefer using sends bc it gives you more control
Where you put the reverb purely depends on what sound you want to achieve. If you want it to sound like it was recorded with the reverb then you move it up the chain closer to the source recording, if you want the reverb to be based on the more polished recording then you move it further down (or better yet use a send and only filter 600-10k for reverb) and mix it in. There is no single answer.
This will glue the reverb and vocals together as well, and, even though things sound unfamiliar (or weird) it actually sound better in the mix! Will definetely try this out!
This concept applies to a lot more than you think. Think about when you record real drums in a real room. When you get that sound and it is now ITB, what characteristic does it have and what does it bring along with it? .....The room..... Same thing for spring reverb on bass and Leads. This is why it is so important to pay homage to what went on OTB before you dive ITB. Thinking Cap before Creative cap. Brings true clarity to the Creative Cap and makes the time in it more enjoyable.
My old friend Tom Pick, Nashville engineer (and staff RCA engineer at Studio A and B back in the day, now deceased) told me that in the '70s when things were tape and analog and tracks were limited, they got the sound of those classic huge sounds by going into the board with the reverb and delay applied going in then into a factory set compression ratio that was like 6 to 1. So the compressors were grabbing everything as it went to tape. He said that's how those classic Elvis songs, Ray Price, Merle Haggard, Tammy Wynette, etc, etc sound so huge and wonderful. He always chuckled at all the arguments from the new engineers against reverb going in, anything over 3 to1 compression, fast attack, slow attack etc. They didn't have all those options then and hundreds of those songs will be playing years after 95% of todays music will be long gone.
@@AaronStarbuck He never said anything to me about multiband compression. He said that the inputs they used on much of those records had a factory set compression ratio which was at 6 to 1 as I recall (might have been 5 to 1 but 6 to 1 seems like what he told me). I remember saying Holy Cow, that's quite a bit higher than I hear anybody using these days. He agreed and said it was set at the factory and they had no choice but to learn how to work within the limits of their available technology (that RCA provided) at the time and chuckled at what a lot of todays recording guys argue about.
I always put reverb first on my vocals in the MPC, cause I never knew how to mix vocals. Now that i'm tryin to mix vocals the pro way I find this video. That is soooooo funny, and I plan to mix both concepts in a way. Thank you for this video, because it shows you can not do what most say and still achieve amazing results. Just messing with things sometimes can open new doors to creativity.
If I am using a room emulation, chamber, or any unit which promotes a specific smaller space and early reflections, to place it somewhere in a room, then inserting the verb on channel input, is a perfectly viable way to go. However, if I were to then add a lush dense digital lexicon wash-of a sound, promoting more so, the tail end of things, in general, with possibly a slightly longer tail time, I would not put it on insert, blending in via a bus would suite the latter verb. It's the same with convolution verbs emulating, anything from amp sims to chambers to rooms. Waves illustrates this well, as a learning tool, with the little yellow lines denoting the spacing of the early reflection, mess around with that and you can totally change what room a drummer is in, for example. So simply saying insert any reverb on insert, is slightly misleading, simply put, smaller spaces, be they carpeted, or reflective, are better suited for inserts. Try putting a cloudy warm, dense 422 verb with a 3 second tail on the insert of a track, tempo depending within reason, and you'll soon find it's not ideal for the mix on probably all the instruments and the processing done on the instrument after the fact, if needed. A lighter tight sharper tiled, or concrete room, with less density and decay, on the other hand, fill ya boots, insert away.
My alternative is to apply only mid sidechaining with trackspacer. So when the main vocal comes in the reverb is on the sides and mid signal comes back when the vocal isn't active🙃
Can u explain a little more? R u saying you add trackspacer to the vocal verb send and use the vocal as the side chain bus? I don’t get what comes back in when vocal isn’t active bc the vocal isn’t feeding in so nothing on the send plays. I guess it would add like a verb throw for a couple seconds which is cool
@@JonKunis hey there :) Yes so I tend to use really big reverbs which would drown the main vocal normally. So I use the trackspacer on the reverb send. I turn trackspacer on 100% mid and the frequency range btw 0 to 3500 hz. So when the main vocal is playing for that moment the sidechain compresses the mid signal in this range on the reverb send. Result is a clear understandble vocal. But when the vocal phrase is over and some space till the next vocal line comes in..you get the effect that the reverb comes back to the mid cause the sidechain don't compress the signal in the space btw to vocal lines. Hope that is understandable haha😉
That's awesome that your doing this, I just started putting my reverb directly on vocals as well. Sounds so much better but I just put it as my last plugin, I'm gonna try it your way today to test out the sound.
I put my reverbs and delays on a Aux just so that I can send all my tracks to it, irrespective of vocals or anything else, and use the send levels to control how far or near they sit in the mix. This makes it sound like they were recorded in the same room but then I lose a lot of control over tone shaping the vocals in the reverb
I understand the method but if you will hear it also changes the sound of the reverb because you are doing all your processing into the verb, very thin sounding but cool trick.
Smooth operator is the goat for Unmasking all you do is sidechain drums to guitars/synths/pianos then boom drums coming through then group bgv/guitars/synths/piano sidechain to lead vocal boom clear vocal Pretty much you can sidechain anything reverb/delay/back ground FX ect and it works amazing 100% you're welcome:)
This is how Kate Bush got her lead on her Hounds of Love album and earlier. Recording in a really bright and wettish room with a combo of getting close and singing softly and stepping back to belt. Combine that with heavy doses of compression you get this effect you're showing here!
I think just putting the reverb as an insert is beneficial, I do this on lead instruments and find its always a bit more present. I won’t attempt to justify why, all I know is it seems to be more reactive.
Could U do a How to mix vocals into a beat (instrumental) in depht and The final master in a way that sound cohesive and glued? Im sure you're The Guy for that.
I saw this demonstration on Slate Academy video, Ultimate Guide To Compression, Where To Place Compressors In Chain. Interesting sound. But I think it sounds way better if you do this in a send, put compressor after the reverb, and you can even sidechain it to a vocal for more extreme dynamic ducking.
Great point. It is much more controllable by routing it the way you suggest. In fact that is how I usually route reverbs. But for whatever reason, putting the reverb first really made this track pop! The point of the video is to inspire people to try things that go against what most people do. Often they can do some cool, unexpected things that end up being just what the song needed (like in this case). Doesn't work all the time, but makes mixing fun and a bit of an adventure. Thanks for sharing!
Here you go, I mix professionally for years and years, I consider myself great with Reverbs, love them, and yet I never tried this, thank you my man, gonna try for sure 🎉 I achieve a similar result using another technique but this one is simpler and easier to pass it on
As an Ableton user, I usually don´t work with sends, but with Audio Fx Rack, which basically inserts fx in parallel inside a chain. So I often put compressors after the reverb and delays, I like the movement too, nice video!
What if I copy same compressor from my main Voclas and paste it after the reverb on my aux/send Track so I get same feel, like as if it side chains , cos manh I don't joke with my dry signal when mixing lolz I also feel that adding a reverb to start mixing process first before other effect should be the last thing to do cos if you are starting the process of mixing and reverb is the first task it will definitely make you not hear the problems frequency to work on , so my suggestion will be after proper mixing on the vocals dry , insert the reverb above all other effect and play around with the wet and dry knob
It can work, as Hendrix and others have shown. Trying lots of traditional, non-traditional and experimental things is a great way to learn. Obviously putting time-based effects after compression and distortion often, but definitely not always, works better. BTW, you have a LOT of aliasing going on under the music. You may have some non-linearities or issues with your mic, preamp that may be getting exaggerated by your plugins and related settings. However, you may want that buzzy vocal and related grit around the music for effect, instead of more power, clarity and clean space around the vocals and other areas.
That's a good idea too. The difference is this technique is adaptive to the audio. The compressor drives the movement. The predelay is fixed and more predictable. I'll have to play with the predelay idea more and see what I like more. Thanks for the good suggestion!
one of the issues of doing this is that you will be bringing up and amplifying unwanted rumble or frequencies that would be harder to remove later on in the mix.. this may work for some tracks, vocals or instruments but not all... however there is plugins that you could use to do this or you could use something like greg wells voice centric
Its a good effect but the way I achieve this is all my vocal verb type send effects go to a final vocal fx bus, I have some sort of compressor in there that I feed the dry vocal to. this will give you more control overall and achieve a better effect imo.
I've heard many pro mixers put a small to medium sized plate the way you just did, just to start their vox mixes. The only negatives I've been warned about is that longer reverbs are harder to control (i.e Halls/chambers) in this way and are more suited to their own bus. Are you using the one reverb, or did you mix the two before the rest of your chain on here? I personally don't use reverb hardly at all, I just use delays.
Yeah it does seem to work well with hall or chamber reverbs the best for me. The medium plate idea is something I need to try. I think that could add a really nice movement to a lead vocal. Thanks for mentioning that. I mostly use delays as well because reverb can push the vocalist back too far, but finding out this trick is making me rethink reverbs. And often I'll still use other reverb (very lightly though) in combination with this trick.
@@RaytownProductions Cool man. I'm going to definitely try this out, but I'm not going to abandon my delays just yet. But if this works, I'm giving you full cred!
@@RaytownProductions Hey, I've been meaning to share a tip I picked up recently. On your effects aux, be it reverb or delay, put a transient shaper instance before it, and literally lop off the attack on the audio signals before they hit the fx plug. It works like magic! Try it, and let me know!
On fl you can still have a send with a similar effect with more control, put a peak controller above the reverb and a fruity balance (or any volume control) after the reverb. Link the volume to that peak controller and you can get the reverb to duck. You can make really interesting reverbs this way
i done it a bunch of times ..not always first tho but early in the chain ... like i might do a regular chain including compression etc and then ad a reverb and then another compressor etc.. what ever sounds good
That does a very similar thing. But saves you from having to route a sidechain. That would also have the benefit of keeping the reverb from being processed by the rest of your vocal chain which may or may not be desirable. Great comment!
Did you say you add compression gain or reduce compression gain at the end of the chain. I have the Waves Silk Vocal plugin. How much should I compress at the end to get a good solid vocal sound without too much of a reverb sound?
I think the key here is to make sure you find what works best for your song. More compression after the reverb will give the reverb more movement which could be distracting if your mix isn't very dense. Experiment with the different ratios to get the desired reverb effect. If you find you don't like the movement or it's too much even if you reduce the dry/wet of the reverb plugin, then maybe putting the reverb at the end of the vocal chain is the right move as this will be the most clean and transparent sounding. Hope that helps!
Great trick 👌 I discovered something like this. I add asturation and eq after the reverb on my vocal chain. But your way gives a diffrent result and good also 👌. There are endless ways of sound engineering 😀 and I really wonder 🤔 are these tricks being taught in music schools as I only studied everything from youtube and throughout trial and error??
I doubt it haha! Lots of audio engineer comes from learning the tools that YOU have and use. School is focused more on the right technical approaches, but like all things artistic, there are NO rules. Thanks for sharing that trick Mohamed!
that's like what a pre-fx send works. there's a many ways to skin a cat. still, good alternative and easier than creating a send. my computer would cave in on a busy session but mixing is all about trade-offs 👍
From what I understand, ppl mix their vocals in “mono”. And put the reverb on a stereo track. So if I put the reverb on the vocal track, wouldn’t the reverb be mono?!
Hey Bobby. I've recently downloaded the multi tracks that you had in previous videos. I saw where there were midi files with the multi tracks. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get them to line up right. Is there anyway you could do a video tutorial on these midi files. Love the channel bro.
My guess is the tempo isn't set correctly in your daw. Check there first. I'll add this to my idea list for yt videos. Hope you get it figured out Jerry. Thanks for the comment
Broski there is basically the same thing call ducking reverb... 😃 And the benefits of this is you still clean up the everything you need first just a compressor after the reverb put it sidechain trigger your vocal aux will do the same staff. And you get the control of how much you wanna duck and more fx too...
This is a really good point! They are indeed close, but not the same thing - slightly different vibes. It's worth trying this approach when deciding between reverb sounds 🙂
Haha, dudes discovered what reverb ducking is 😆 I’d still rather use on a send and having a side chained compressor to duck the reverb as I can have more control how each sounds independently
Personally, I don’t like the idea of my vocal compression settings completely affecting my Reverb with each and every tweak. Because now I’d have to try to adjust the compressors to honor a good reverb sound AND vocal setting rather than completely focus on dialing the absolute best compression/chain for that vocal signal. I just feel like it tangles things up, as things will be responding to one another in ways that could be detrimental, especially for those who are still getting the hang of mixing. What if a song just calls for much more extreme compression on a vocal part? Now we are going to have really extreme reverb compression pumping and won’t be able to use more extreme compression or saturation on the vocal chain without “stopping to think if it’s gonna fuck up the reverb”. I would much rather have the vocal signal chain completely independent and dedicated to dialing in the vocal tone exactly how I want it, which I could then send it to an auxiliary with Reverb, which at the end of the day would still allow me to do all the same ducking and dynamic enhancement to the reverb, but with much more control including being able to add an additional EQ curve to the reverb (pre or post) should it be needed to sit in the mix a little better. …Or maybe we want to get creative and add some modulation or distortion/saturation that is different from the saturation you may have on your vocal track. If your reverb is first in the chain you’re always just stuck with whatever saturation etc. you want to put on the vocal also affecting the Reverb as well, which honestly could get muddy depending on the vocal tone you’re after… At the very least, it will certainly shut you out of certain possibilities, like being able to saturate the voice to be warmer and thicker if you please, then sending that to a Reverb that you eq to eliminate all the excess low end warmth out to leave room in the mix but give the vocal a little atmosphere….. Certainly not saying what you’ve presented in this video isn’t valid, but I would not present it as the “definite better alternative” to simply using and learning your way around tried and true auxiliary sends, which obviously give much more control over the mix, and avoid you having to think about every single move on your vocal chain during the mix completely changing the reverb. Obviously changing anything on your vocal will change the Reverb in a send as well but the change of verb effect would be much less in an aux scenario if we are talking about adjusting saturators or compressors, which I find myself tweaking and adjusting throughout the mixing process as I loop around between elements adjusting them off of each other as the mix develops. Of course, yes, many reverb plug-ins will have some eq etc controls inside that you can adjust in tandem with your vocal chain as you go, but again, I just feel there would be so much less control if that verb was literally the first thing on your vocal chain, especially considering I often prefer to use something pretty comprehensive like pro Q3 to shape a Reverb, and I am not a fan of many of the EQ knobs and controls built into Reverb plug-ins due to lack of customizable control for any given mix. Rant over. I love you all ❤️
Okay, this makes sense. Now wait a second. Since this technique brings clarity to vocals, maybe it should be also used on any instrument tracks that hit compressors, for retaining more clarity.
@Raytown Productions Always wanting to keep reverb from messing up clarity, I've now taken this concept much further. Never mind putting reverbs as inserts. Leave all reverbs on their buses. Immediately following the reverb effect on its bus, place a compressor with instant attack and a pretty quick release SIDE-CHAIN TRIGGERED by ALL original non-effect signals going to Main. This keeps the reverb quiet at all moments we don't want it muddying the mix, and popping out big at the quiet moments when we want it filling in. These reverb levels will be on a quick and constant sliding scale over time, entirely inversely dependent on the levels of the clear instrument/vocal signals going to main.
@@nealthompson404 I do this sometimes as well and this can really help keep the reverb sounding clean. You also have independent control over the movement of the reverb. Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely can do it that way. You will also have a little bit more control. In fact, that is how I usually do it. But for this song, it just felt better and was way easier to use reverb in a non-traditional sense. Hope it inspires you to experiment. Cheers!
No thank you. I'll stick to bussing my fx, it gives you way more control. Just automate or sidechain your bus to give it movement. If you use sends, you can process the channel and bus differently. So when you stick the reverb on the channel before all processing, it will affect both the reverb and vocal itself when eq-ing and from my experience that will mostly create an undesirable sound.😅
whoopee doo...try new things?...break a few rules?...i say make rules then break them...again and again.....how exciting to make art...how exciting to make music....ignore the dudes who think it's all about some rules....like we're all politicians here. just remember if it were all about rules...there never would've been a Louie Louie.
![Summer Walker - Heart Of A Woman [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SFddctbZzw8/mqdefault.jpg)
*Have you ever tried putting reverb FIRST in your vocal chain?* Also, don't forget to grab my free plugin guide: bit.ly/plugin-book
I think why this works is the fact that your are putting it first but after dialing in your processing, am pretty sure letting it inform the mixing (subsequent processing decision) might not have the feel and movement it has in contrast to running it in as an effect as in this case.
Just for context, if you put a compressor second there's the temptation to kill all that movement and vibe with the release settings.
On the flip side you could still get movement in parallel with by sidechaining, modulation, distortion and whatnot but that could be a lot of work anyways great tip!
Couldn't you achieve this same thing with a send? You could put a compressor after the reverb on your aux channel and side chain it to the vocal so it ducks the reverb whenever the vocal is going. I've been doing that with delay for years, but I don't see why it wouldn't work to achieve this effect with reverb.
🤯you smart
It always works for me too, sometimes I add an Eq on the bus to shape the reverb
yeah, I thought every pro just used sends.
@@CFox.7 I think that depends, I’ve met other engineers that like to use reverb directly on track. But I prefer using sends bc it gives you more control
This is how I do it sometimes. I'm not comfortable using reverb in insert. I'm that old geezer.
Where you put the reverb purely depends on what sound you want to achieve. If you want it to sound like it was recorded with the reverb then you move it up the chain closer to the source recording, if you want the reverb to be based on the more polished recording then you move it further down (or better yet use a send and only filter 600-10k for reverb) and mix it in. There is no single answer.
This will glue the reverb and vocals together as well, and, even though things sound unfamiliar (or weird) it actually sound better in the mix! Will definetely try this out!
Exactly! One of the best "happy accidents" I've had in a while. Cheers Eirik!
And just 8 days ago, he released a video titled "Why I Never Use Vocal Reverb Anymore..."
This concept applies to a lot more than you think. Think about when you record real drums in a real room. When you get that sound and it is now ITB, what characteristic does it have and what does it bring along with it? .....The room..... Same thing for spring reverb on bass and Leads. This is why it is so important to pay homage to what went on OTB before you dive ITB. Thinking Cap before Creative cap. Brings true clarity to the Creative Cap and makes the time in it more enjoyable.
Interesting point! I'll save this concept in the back of my mind for my next project. Appreciate the comment!
Anytime Ray, always happy to share! I love your content and your thinking 🧢!
My old friend Tom Pick, Nashville engineer (and staff RCA engineer at Studio A and B back in the day, now deceased) told me that in the '70s when things were tape and analog and tracks were limited, they got the sound of those classic huge sounds by going into the board with the reverb and delay applied going in then into a factory set compression ratio that was like 6 to 1. So the compressors were grabbing everything as it went to tape. He said that's how those classic Elvis songs, Ray Price, Merle Haggard, Tammy Wynette, etc, etc sound so huge and wonderful. He always chuckled at all the arguments from the new engineers against reverb going in, anything over 3 to1 compression, fast attack, slow attack etc. They didn't have all those options then and hundreds of those songs will be playing years after 95% of todays music will be long gone.
That is so cool. Thanks for sharing this! Funny how we rediscover stuff that has been known for years haha!
@@AaronStarbuck He never said anything to me about multiband compression. He said that the inputs they used on much of those records had a factory set compression ratio which was at 6 to 1 as I recall (might have been 5 to 1 but 6 to 1 seems like what he told me). I remember saying Holy Cow, that's quite a bit higher than I hear anybody using these days. He agreed and said it was set at the factory and they had no choice but to learn how to work within the limits of their available technology (that RCA provided) at the time and chuckled at what a lot of todays recording guys argue about.
Wow. This is good. That’s why I subscribed to this channel
I always put reverb first on my vocals in the MPC, cause I never knew how to mix vocals. Now that i'm tryin to mix vocals the pro way I find this video. That is soooooo funny, and I plan to mix both concepts in a way. Thank you for this video, because it shows you can not do what most say and still achieve amazing results. Just messing with things sometimes can open new doors to creativity.
Cool idea, Bobby! I’ll be sure to try this one out.
If I am using a room emulation, chamber, or any unit which promotes a specific smaller space and early reflections, to place it somewhere in a room, then inserting the verb on channel input, is a perfectly viable way to go. However, if I were to then add a lush dense digital lexicon wash-of a sound, promoting more so, the tail end of things, in general, with possibly a slightly longer tail time, I would not put it on insert, blending in via a bus would suite the latter verb. It's the same with convolution verbs emulating, anything from amp sims to chambers to rooms. Waves illustrates this well, as a learning tool, with the little yellow lines denoting the spacing of the early reflection, mess around with that and you can totally change what room a drummer is in, for example. So simply saying insert any reverb on insert, is slightly misleading, simply put, smaller spaces, be they carpeted, or reflective, are better suited for inserts. Try putting a cloudy warm, dense 422 verb with a 3 second tail on the insert of a track, tempo depending within reason, and you'll soon find it's not ideal for the mix on probably all the instruments and the processing done on the instrument after the fact, if needed. A lighter tight sharper tiled, or concrete room, with less density and decay, on the other hand, fill ya boots, insert away.
My alternative is to apply only mid sidechaining with trackspacer. So when the main vocal comes in the reverb is on the sides and mid signal comes back when the vocal isn't active🙃
Can u explain a little more? R u saying you add trackspacer to the vocal verb send and use the vocal as the side chain bus? I don’t get what comes back in when vocal isn’t active bc the vocal isn’t feeding in so nothing on the send plays. I guess it would add like a verb throw for a couple seconds which is cool
@@JonKunis hey there :) Yes so I tend to use really big reverbs which would drown the main vocal normally. So I use the trackspacer on the reverb send. I turn trackspacer on 100% mid and the frequency range btw 0 to 3500 hz. So when the main vocal is playing for that moment the sidechain compresses the mid signal in this range on the reverb send. Result is a clear understandble vocal. But when the vocal phrase is over and some space till the next vocal line comes in..you get the effect that the reverb comes back to the mid cause the sidechain don't compress the signal in the space btw to vocal lines. Hope that is understandable haha😉
That's awesome that your doing this, I just started putting my reverb directly on vocals as well. Sounds so much better but I just put it as my last plugin, I'm gonna try it your way today to test out the sound.
I put my reverbs and delays on a Aux just so that I can send all my tracks to it, irrespective of vocals or anything else, and use the send levels to control how far or near they sit in the mix. This makes it sound like they were recorded in the same room but then I lose a lot of control over tone shaping the vocals in the reverb
oh now that is a very cool dodge, gonna try this, i love how the vocal clarity is all there, it sounds more present and close. Love it
If it works, it works. If it sounds good, it is good 👍👍
Another banger bobby, thanks for the great content
I understand the method but if you will hear it also changes the sound of the reverb because you are doing all your processing into the verb, very thin sounding but cool trick.
You should definitely put eq & compressor first but other than that I don't think there's a rule you should follow about putting reverb first or delay
This sounds excellent!
Smooth operator is the goat for Unmasking all you do is sidechain drums to guitars/synths/pianos then boom drums coming through then group bgv/guitars/synths/piano sidechain to lead vocal boom clear vocal
Pretty much you can sidechain anything reverb/delay/back ground FX ect and it works amazing 100% you're welcome:)
I will give this a shot. Thanks for the suggestion!
This is how Kate Bush got her lead on her Hounds of Love album and earlier. Recording in a really bright and wettish room with a combo of getting close and singing softly and stepping back to belt. Combine that with heavy doses of compression you get this effect you're showing here!
i did this by accident on my next single 'Ask For Me' it sounds amazing!!
Woah, great video mate!
Fun video! We need more fun creative out of the box content. Taking it too seriously makes mixing a real
Chore.
yes!
Hey, everything works, thanks for the video
That's a really interesting concept. Thanks for the share 😊😊😊
Dope tutorial man.. that shirt tho 🫣 …keep doing awesome
so cool. trying it. Thanks!🤠
Great video, and the good thing is that it works, whatever works and sounds good is valid, thanks for bringing such a creative way of doing stuffs
I think just putting the reverb as an insert is beneficial, I do this on lead instruments and find its always a bit more present. I won’t attempt to justify why, all I know is it seems to be more reactive.
Could U do a How to mix vocals into a beat (instrumental) in depht and The final master in a way that sound cohesive and glued?
Im sure you're The Guy for that.
This is good I just tried it and it was one head of a new stuff, thanks for the is information, I just subscribed !
For a sec I was surprised to see Jhonny sins teaching about vocal processing but then I took a close look and nope it's not 😂
I saw this demonstration on Slate Academy video, Ultimate Guide To Compression, Where To Place Compressors In Chain. Interesting sound. But I think it sounds way better if you do this in a send, put compressor after the reverb, and you can even sidechain it to a vocal for more extreme dynamic ducking.
Great point. It is much more controllable by routing it the way you suggest. In fact that is how I usually route reverbs. But for whatever reason, putting the reverb first really made this track pop!
The point of the video is to inspire people to try things that go against what most people do. Often they can do some cool, unexpected things that end up being just what the song needed (like in this case). Doesn't work all the time, but makes mixing fun and a bit of an adventure.
Thanks for sharing!
Loving your videos man. Your humble approach to experimenting with new things and just having fun with it is refreshing
Wow !!! nice one !!! thanks !
WORKS 100%
Here you go, I mix professionally for years and years, I consider myself great with Reverbs, love them, and yet I never tried this, thank you my man, gonna try for sure 🎉 I achieve a similar result using another technique but this one is simpler and easier to pass it on
Glad it inspired you! Thanks for sharing 🙂
As an Ableton user, I usually don´t work with sends, but with Audio Fx Rack, which basically inserts fx in parallel inside a chain. So I often put compressors after the reverb and delays, I like the movement too, nice video!
Thank you, it works perfect!
Great advice thank you
What if I copy same compressor from my main Voclas and paste it after the reverb on my aux/send Track so I get same feel, like as if it side chains , cos manh I don't joke with my dry signal when mixing lolz
I also feel that adding a reverb to start mixing process first before other effect should be the last thing to do cos if you are starting the process of mixing and reverb is the first task it will definitely make you not hear the problems frequency to work on , so my suggestion will be after proper mixing on the vocals dry , insert the reverb above all other effect and play around with the wet and dry knob
It can work, as Hendrix and others have shown. Trying lots of traditional, non-traditional and experimental things is a great way to learn. Obviously putting time-based effects after compression and distortion often, but definitely not always, works better.
BTW, you have a LOT of aliasing going on under the music. You may have some non-linearities or issues with your mic, preamp that may be getting exaggerated by your plugins and related settings. However, you may want that buzzy vocal and related grit around the music for effect, instead of more power, clarity and clean space around the vocals and other areas.
Nice! I think this is an easier way to sidechain reverb on an aux track. Seems like you get the same effect.
I would stick to sends and just use more pre delay, but cool as an effect!
That's a good idea too. The difference is this technique is adaptive to the audio. The compressor drives the movement. The predelay is fixed and more predictable. I'll have to play with the predelay idea more and see what I like more.
Thanks for the good suggestion!
Awesome observation
one of the issues of doing this is that you will be bringing up and amplifying unwanted rumble or frequencies that would be harder to remove later on in the mix.. this may work for some tracks, vocals or instruments but not all... however there is plugins that you could use to do this or you could use something like greg wells voice centric
Its a good effect but the way I achieve this is all my vocal verb type send effects go to a final vocal fx bus, I have some sort of compressor in there that I feed the dry vocal to. this will give you more control overall and achieve a better effect imo.
I've heard many pro mixers put a small to medium sized plate the way you just did, just to start their vox mixes. The only negatives I've been warned about is that longer reverbs are harder to control (i.e Halls/chambers) in this way and are more suited to their own bus. Are you using the one reverb, or did you mix the two before the rest of your chain on here? I personally don't use reverb hardly at all, I just use delays.
Also, did you try that with other reverbs too to see if it worked across the board?
I 100% agree! It can do some weird things to your mix if you go overboard. Subtle moves here go a long way!
Yeah it does seem to work well with hall or chamber reverbs the best for me.
The medium plate idea is something I need to try. I think that could add a really nice movement to a lead vocal. Thanks for mentioning that.
I mostly use delays as well because reverb can push the vocalist back too far, but finding out this trick is making me rethink reverbs. And often I'll still use other reverb (very lightly though) in combination with this trick.
@@RaytownProductions Cool man. I'm going to definitely try this out, but I'm not going to abandon my delays just yet. But if this works, I'm giving you full cred!
@@RaytownProductions Hey, I've been meaning to share a tip I picked up recently. On your effects aux, be it reverb or delay, put a transient shaper instance before it, and literally lop off the attack on the audio signals before they hit the fx plug. It works like magic! Try it, and let me know!
On fl you can still have a send with a similar effect with more control, put a peak controller above the reverb and a fruity balance (or any volume control) after the reverb. Link the volume to that peak controller and you can get the reverb to duck.
You can make really interesting reverbs this way
i done it a bunch of times ..not always first tho but early in the chain ... like i might do a regular chain including compression etc and then ad a reverb and then another compressor etc.. what ever sounds good
So I normally sidechain compress reverb to duck during the vocals and breathe more in between. Is this any different?
That does a very similar thing. But saves you from having to route a sidechain. That would also have the benefit of keeping the reverb from being processed by the rest of your vocal chain which may or may not be desirable. Great comment!
Did you say you add compression gain or reduce compression gain at the end of the chain. I have the Waves Silk Vocal plugin. How much should I compress at the end to get a good solid vocal sound without too much of a reverb sound?
I think the key here is to make sure you find what works best for your song. More compression after the reverb will give the reverb more movement which could be distracting if your mix isn't very dense. Experiment with the different ratios to get the desired reverb effect. If you find you don't like the movement or it's too much even if you reduce the dry/wet of the reverb plugin, then maybe putting the reverb at the end of the vocal chain is the right move as this will be the most clean and transparent sounding. Hope that helps!
Great trick 👌 I discovered something like this. I add asturation and eq after the reverb on my vocal chain. But your way gives a diffrent result and good also 👌. There are endless ways of sound engineering 😀 and I really wonder 🤔 are these tricks being taught in music schools as I only studied everything from youtube and throughout trial and error??
I doubt it haha! Lots of audio engineer comes from learning the tools that YOU have and use. School is focused more on the right technical approaches, but like all things artistic, there are NO rules.
Thanks for sharing that trick Mohamed!
wow amazing
that's like what a pre-fx send works. there's a many ways to skin a cat. still, good alternative and easier than creating a send. my computer would cave in on a busy session but mixing is all about trade-offs 👍
From what I understand, ppl mix their vocals in “mono”. And put the reverb on a stereo track. So if I put the reverb on the vocal track, wouldn’t the reverb be mono?!
Use a mono to stereo reverb on a stereo channel
The Music Is Pure Art... I Think You Can Experiment However You Want And... If It Sounds Good, Use It...
PD: Good Video @Rayton Productions
Agreed! Thanks for watching. Cheers!
Hahah u got the trick.Welcome to the world of nerdss my guy.
Hey Bobby. I've recently downloaded the multi tracks that you had in previous videos. I saw where there were midi files with the multi tracks. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get them to line up right. Is there anyway you could do a video tutorial on these midi files. Love the channel bro.
My guess is the tempo isn't set correctly in your daw. Check there first. I'll add this to my idea list for yt videos. Hope you get it figured out Jerry. Thanks for the comment
@@RaytownProductions thank you for the reply! Def gonna check that out.
Broski there is basically the same thing call ducking reverb... 😃 And the benefits of this is you still clean up the everything you need first just a compressor after the reverb put it sidechain trigger your vocal aux will do the same staff. And you get the control of how much you wanna duck and more fx too...
This is a really good point! They are indeed close, but not the same thing - slightly different vibes. It's worth trying this approach when deciding between reverb sounds 🙂
But if i send the vocal, its gonna have reverb on it now. Shouldnt i be sending a dry signal amongst other plugins?
Haha, dudes discovered what reverb ducking is 😆
I’d still rather use on a send and having a side chained compressor to duck the reverb as I can have more control how each sounds independently
Personally, I don’t like the idea of my vocal compression settings completely affecting my Reverb with each and every tweak. Because now I’d have to try to adjust the compressors to honor a good reverb sound AND vocal setting rather than completely focus on dialing the absolute best compression/chain for that vocal signal.
I just feel like it tangles things up, as things will be responding to one another in ways that could be detrimental, especially for those who are still getting the hang of mixing.
What if a song just calls for much more extreme compression on a vocal part? Now we are going to have really extreme reverb compression pumping and won’t be able to use more extreme compression or saturation on the vocal chain without “stopping to think if it’s gonna fuck up the reverb”.
I would much rather have the vocal signal chain completely independent and dedicated to dialing in the vocal tone exactly how I want it, which I could then send it to an auxiliary with Reverb, which at the end of the day would still allow me to do all the same ducking and dynamic enhancement to the reverb, but with much more control including being able to add an additional EQ curve to the reverb (pre or post) should it be needed to sit in the mix a little better.
…Or maybe we want to get creative and add some modulation or distortion/saturation that is different from the saturation you may have on your vocal track. If your reverb is first in the chain you’re always just stuck with whatever saturation etc. you want to put on the vocal also affecting the Reverb as well, which honestly could get muddy depending on the vocal tone you’re after…
At the very least, it will certainly shut you out of certain possibilities, like being able to saturate the voice to be warmer and thicker if you please, then sending that to a Reverb that you eq to eliminate all the excess low end warmth out to leave room in the mix but give the vocal a little atmosphere…..
Certainly not saying what you’ve presented in this video isn’t valid, but I would not present it as the “definite better alternative” to simply using and learning your way around tried and true auxiliary sends, which obviously give much more control over the mix, and avoid you having to think about every single move on your vocal chain during the mix completely changing the reverb.
Obviously changing anything on your vocal will change the Reverb in a send as well but the change of verb effect would be much less in an aux scenario if we are talking about adjusting saturators or compressors, which I find myself tweaking and adjusting throughout the mixing process as I loop around between elements adjusting them off of each other as the mix develops.
Of course, yes, many reverb plug-ins will have some eq etc controls inside that you can adjust in tandem with your vocal chain as you go, but again, I just feel there would be so much less control if that verb was literally the first thing on your vocal chain, especially considering I often prefer to use something pretty comprehensive like pro Q3 to shape a Reverb, and I am not a fan of many of the EQ knobs and controls built into Reverb plug-ins due to lack of customizable control for any given mix.
Rant over.
I love you all ❤️
Thanks man 👍👍✌✌🔥🔥❤🍾🚬
This feels 80s...maybe Def Leopard? Or Bon Jovi? The big backing vocals might have had this effect.
That’s radddd
Eric Cartman sounds great using this trick.
it used a lot in EDM, it sounds exactly like reverb swells
Are u in the KC area?
East coast (Washington DC). The artist is from AR (a little closer to you) and has a pretty awesome studio there.
Okay, this makes sense. Now wait a second. Since this technique brings clarity to vocals, maybe it should be also used on any instrument tracks that hit compressors, for retaining more clarity.
I think this would sound awesome on some clean guitars if done correctly. Great point!
@Raytown Productions Always wanting to keep reverb from messing up clarity, I've now taken this concept much further. Never mind putting reverbs as inserts. Leave all reverbs on their buses. Immediately following the reverb effect on its bus, place a compressor with instant attack and a pretty quick release SIDE-CHAIN TRIGGERED by ALL original non-effect signals going to Main. This keeps the reverb quiet at all moments we don't want it muddying the mix, and popping out big at the quiet moments when we want it filling in. These reverb levels will be on a quick and constant sliding scale over time, entirely inversely dependent on the levels of the clear instrument/vocal signals going to main.
@@nealthompson404 I do this sometimes as well and this can really help keep the reverb sounding clean. You also have independent control over the movement of the reverb. Thanks for sharing!
Cool trick: I do this with snares if they sound too dead to me :)
Gem
pre fader track in logic .
Why don’t you just duck the delay with sc? Lol. Then send both (dry and reverb only w the ducking) to an aux and throw a little rvox on it to glue.
Absolutely can do it that way. You will also have a little bit more control. In fact, that is how I usually do it. But for this song, it just felt better and was way easier to use reverb in a non-traditional sense.
Hope it inspires you to experiment. Cheers!
@mixbustv we need your purge
waiting for that
Love that channel 🤘
Interesting presentation but that music is chainsaw harsh and made it hard to hear that reverb in context.
Is this genre specific?
Nope 😃
No thank you. I'll stick to bussing my fx, it gives you way more control. Just automate or sidechain your bus to give it movement. If you use sends, you can process the channel and bus differently. So when you stick the reverb on the channel before all processing, it will affect both the reverb and vocal itself when eq-ing and from my experience that will mostly create an undesirable sound.😅
But I use reverb through the bus … all these vocal chain videos are becoming a bit overwhelming
put the reverb on the master
Hey there are no rules! But I rarely do that haha!
I trust your lab coat
Excellent 😈
? Is this from a Scholarly Article? Lol
Is not ok 🤦🏻🤦🏻
whoopee doo...try new things?...break a few rules?...i say make rules then break them...again and again.....how exciting to make art...how exciting to make music....ignore the dudes who think it's all about some rules....like we're all politicians here. just remember if it were all about rules...there never would've been a Louie Louie.
Godman it man, I thought this is one of those stupid Andrew Tate video from the thumbnail.
i wanna see the dislikes