The Bronze Player Crossroads
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2024
- It can be tough to get into a new fighting game. All you want is to play honest footsies, but every opponent is mashing special moves and jumping in constantly! Surely there's a way past the bronze ranks to the REAL game... right?
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My friend once said that when he plays a fighting game, it's like he wants boxing, but Bronze is like a parking lot fight in High School. You might want to square up and measure distance, but the other guy just throws their backpack at you and then starts windmilling. If you're not ready, you're gonna get your ass kicked because you're playing the wrong game.
I've felt that in fighting games for sure, but I also feel like that carries over to almost any competitive game as well. You can't climb low rank League of Legends with strategy, you climb it by playing shit the enemy team can't adjust to. (just using LoL as an example)
that's the best fighting game analogy i've ever heard, i both love it and hate it cos of how true it is
Extremely true
Your friend is Dudley lol. "Let's fight, like gentlemen."
Welp,fighting games irl and viceversa
My first experience with sfv and competitive fighting games in general was a friend who's now super diamond going absolute gorilla mode on ken and yelling PUNISH at me every two seconds. Truly not very far from the bronze experience.
Ngl I kinda wish someone would do that to me
@@ono446 PUNISH
Yo this is a true friend.
Okay but having a player who knows when you can punish their moves just go apeshit on the sticks and yell whenever you can punish them for it sounds like a really effective (and also super fun) way to learn
The Jwong approach to teaching. “YOU GONNA LEARN TODAY”
Literally just blew out of bronze on a 13 game win streak like an hour ago after I reached nirvana and realized “wait hang on these other guys suck ass”
lol and what rank are you now?
@@interceptingfist5682 silver for now but I’ve only played a few games since my streak
@@SillyGnome keep up the grind
@@Pat315 got into gold like three or so months ago but then had to move and go through a bunch of real life stuff so didn’t get the chance to play a lot. Shaking off some rust currently but I’m back on that grind
@@SillyGnome hyped for the new game?
When I reached this level of self-realization I went from Silver to Diamond in two months. Mindset is freaking important.
Damn fr?
That man's name? Albert Einstein.
@@lukethespaceman3231 Yeah! It's not that hard. I got harstuck on Diamond for almost a year, though. Managed to reach Ultra Diamond a few days ago.
It is
"There is no secret ingredient."
This game can be incredibly difficult mentally. Kudos to anyone who can keep the learning mindset in the center of the bonobo cage.
THIS Is and only this is Tekken's biggest challenge starting out. There are a million characters and each character has a million moves and you've never seen any of them so they are all going to work. The "Trial by fire" phase must be trekked, resulting in a buttload of "Cheap" losses as you slowly parse out what does and doesn't work in all the characters. You cannot under any circumstances bypass it however, or you will absolutely lose to some low level cheese you've never seen before later down the line.
This is a necessary portion of the learning curve that you miss out on if you only practice with players who are much higher rank than you. They've already been through the trials and have already experienced what works and doesn't. If there is even a chance that you don't know how to handle it, they will sniff it out and blow you away laughing the whole way.
I used to HATE Tetris. "Dumb blocks that falll w.e." This was before I played fighters. Having learned to enjoy the process of improvement was something that the FGC taught me. One day, I was bored in Fightcade, decided to go a round of Tetris for jokes, now I love it. The Fighting game mind-set helps me in so much more than just fighting games.
The T piece matchup used to be unwinnable before I learned the spin tech
@@supernebula101 LOL Don't joke; T-spins are tha goat. After pressing down for fast drop and up to lock pieces in, my flash kicks are on point,
Fighting games are a conversation. The less you know the more of a shouting match it is. As you get more skilled or if you play more skilled players it becomes more of a debate.
The amount of flowchart Kens and Spammy Abigails helped me realize really quickly that, yes have fun, but be rude and disrespectful as much as you can while in the lower ranks.
One thing not really mentioned here is that at low level you don't just need to learn how to punish the opponents options but also punish them properly. For example punishing a Ken DP with a cr.MK xx Hadouken isn't gonna stop them from using DP all the time. Learning how to punish a -4 move with anything more than lp>lp>lp is very important otherwise you will take more damage from your own mistake than your opponent takes from theirs.
well said. if the only punish i eat for yolo dp'ing is a throw, i'm gonna dp on wakeup all game long. without proper punishes the risk reward is way too in favor of the masher
This experience holds true for not only new players to the genre but also to experienced players who try other games just like Brain described when he tried DBFZ. The only difference is that as an experience player, you do realize the other person is just doing things without thinking but you just don't have the knowledge yet about how to punish their mistakes. As someone who jumped into learning CvS2 this year, this was my exact experience. I had a lot of issues even fighting low level players that I KNEW was not playing the game well and still lost to their BS simply because I wasn't able to 1) react to what they're doing 2) properly punish their mistakes. I went to training mode to lab every situation I was losing to to find the optimal punishes and now I'm at a level where lower level players are not getting away with sloppy play anymore.
Bro IMAGINE people coaching you after a match in the world chat in the SF6 battle hub, so good
this is why sf6 is actually revolutionary, it's gonna be exciting!!
That sounds like a very optimistic outlook on world chat
I'm imagining LTG rn
@@Fooacta Let them live in a fantasy world. Reality is going to hit them like a truck.
@@Cherryponut Two things can simultaneously be true
80% of the player base is bronze and below.
Yeah it's true but who knows what the percentages are of active players..
It me. I enjoyed Tekken the most when I played casuals with my friends even though they were so much better than me and all I did was lose. It was when I tried to rank up that I gave up on the game altogether. It’s just a race to see who can start their flowchart first. That plus cheaters and shitty connections were the final nail in the coffin for me. Big props to the poster on Reddit for sticking it out
That bit about having to learn about your opponent before yourself or your own character makes me wonder why people complain so much when a game launches with less than 40+ characters. Also explains why it's gnerally better to get into a fighting game early in its lifespan, before all the season passes etc.
the casuals complain, but as an enthusiast big rosters are a nightmare to learn if you weren't there at the beginning of the game, I prefer rosters like 3rd Strike with a lot to discover gameplay wise.
Exact reason why I didn't get into tekken 7 lmao. Roster was massive and most the characters were legacy characters lol
Mindset is king. If you can make the pro mindset your own, you will automatically be in the top 1% for every game you play. 99% of players have no idea how to be good at video games, so you will beat them by default.
Based background music, Layer Cake is an amazing track
You see a very similar sentiment in tekken. Lots of jokes about green ranks not being real tekken. It's really frustrating and challenging to get out of those ranks for a lot of people because tekken has so many knowledge checks, strings, and moves in general. I've seen that a lot of people don't bother playing ranked because of it and instead play in lobbies or unranked.
Starting out tekken is harder than SF for sure. Characters have way too many moves and it's hard to figure out when you should use which; like half of moves are overheads so you can't even down back them, and a lot of them launch you for shitton of damage; even simple stuff like equivalents of SF target combos often do batshit damage in general; a lot of moves that are vague in terms of how you can punish them, and frame data being a paid DLC (whoever came up with it deserves to burn in hell as for me) doesn't help it at all; and some moves "crushing" highs and lows makes it very dangerous to even try checking if a move is minus and/or close enough to take your turn back. I really disagree with brian's statement that tekken is an easier game if you're a newb and just want to have fun, it's way easier to just explode from getting tagged twice in tekken than it is in SF.
@@aadaaadasda9979 I think Tekken is great for button mashing newbs that just want to have fun. You can get decent damage from strings that are very hard to deal with unless you put time into labbing them. Not to mention that snake edge and hopkicks usually give big damage combos and are very hard to punish for beginners. I think the game is really hard for newbs that want to take the game seriously and improve but for people that just want to have fun, I can totally see Bryan's reasoning.
@@Invictus_Mithra i started as almost as a newb and it wasn't fun at all to lose like 1/3 of your health because your opponent just did an overhead target combo that was effectively safe on block. It's like injustice but even worse.
I feel this.. something you said is that people DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON". why am I losing so bad? Why can't I pull this off? All things I ask, and this is after watching vids like this and training all the time. The only difference is that I've put in the time to understand that eventually I WILL understand with the right mindset and the right amount of matches played to learn matchups
This is super applicable to any competitive 1v1 game. I play tennis and what Brian said here might just be the greatest beginner tennis instructional video I have ever seen. Truly. I have seen so many crazy characters at low grade tennis tournaments down through the years it really is like real life Bronze rank. Down at that level you're not really playing the game so much as you're playing the person. Good situational awareness and fundamentals will carry you much farther than trying to learn links to big combos or trying to play respectful neutral.
i really like that even though you have a good handle on how new players struggle you still take the time to get new perspectives and learn about how new players have to learn. i know you joke that it's a content scrape but i think it's really important to do stuff like this anyway. win/win!
a few months back I watched your “Why’re stuck in bronze vid” and it was like my third eye opened, I started practicing my anti-airs and sweep punishing and no joke I went from bronze to silver in like a day. Keep up the good work man!
what character do you play? I keep hearing this but I think character choice matters too. I use Laura and highest I've made it to was Ultra Bronze. I keep getting destroyed by Ryu,Akuma and especially Ken. I feel that unless you have a traditional fireball and a invincible reversal you'll have a harder time than others.
@@gokus789 oh character choice for sure affects climbing bronze ranks, i main Dan and I was able to get into silver mostly because next to no one knows how to fight Dan he’s too obscure a character. I’m just gonna make a few guesses on what Ryu/Akuma/Ken are doing to get you and give a few tips.
1: Ryu, either fireball spam or crossup spam. I personally have trouble countering these two things but for fire ball spam try just walking/blocking or neutral jumping a fireball then approaching, fireball spam Ryu’s normally just run as much as they can so once they back themselves into the corner just try your best to keep them there. Can’t tell you how many time I’ve done that then they just don’t know what to do and lose the set.
Crossup spam, I have serious issues with this one like I’ll just lose sets if someone does this to much, two things I can advise look into information for Laura on air-to-airs and dash checking,
Ken. I used to main Ken b4 I switched to Dan, a few tips: H Tatsu is minus 4 on block (note: his V-trigger 1 H Tatsu is +2) so if they try full screen Tatsu use a light punish combo. Ex Shoru can be neutral jumped over, if you do a neutral jump when you feel a Ex Dp coming it will just go right under you.
Akuma. It’s the Demon flip isn’t it? Not much to tell you other then learn to react to it. Look up some Laura tech on countering it.
This was longer then I thought it was gonna be lol hope this helps.
@@clarkkent1243Akuma mostly stays back and punishes when given the opportunity. Once he gets more meter he will be more offensive so just try to make him throw fireballs and punish him.
Ken player (shoryu spam, sweep kick to cut the game)
Someone please tell me if I have the wrong perspective here, but I feel like the "homework" aspect of learning here is very much unique to SFV. My main games were MvC2, 3S, and GGXX mainly, with a little ST and T5 on the side, and with those games, one common thread is that I could always tell *visually* when to take my turn. Most blockstrings either left you wide open or out of range altogether. In SFV though, I can never tell what's plus or minus on block, and lots of things that *look* unsafe on block are somehow plus, like all of Honda's specials and everything Bison does. Every attack in this game feels like a frame trap. Now granted, I know training mode exists, I could always go into lab and learn the frame data, but like... I play an average of maybe 20 minutes a month. I'll hop on, play 5 or 6 ranked matches, and forget about the game for a month. I managed to bruteforce my way up to gold rank on instinct alone, but past this point I feel like I really need to go into lab with every single character I fight against and learn all of their frame data, which tbh just isn't my idea of fun. Granted, I come from an era when training modes barely existed and the only way to find frame data was from James Chen on GameFAQs, so I'm used to just being able to feel things out. Most other games I play, as long as I know how to use *my* characters, that knowledge is mostly transferrable between matchups. SFV is the first game that's ever left me feeling like I need to know my opponent's characters inside and out, and that's not happening in 20 minutes a month.
That's usually every fighting game that be honest. How do you beat King when you don't know to break a throw? But you can always just ask someone for matching up knowledge or watch your replays to see what your doing wrong.
And with Bison he usually is plus on everything so just v-reversal his heavy buttons to stop his pressure.
Man...20 minutes a month? I wouldn't learn anything either.
As someone who just reached Super Silver, that post and this video is so relatable to me. Bronze was incredibly annoying for me, but now I’m actually having such a blast with the game! I have around 50 hours in it and want to try reaching at least Diamond before SF6 releases!
That post is EXACTLY my experience with SFV.
The entire bronze rank teaches you how to play the game wrong just so you can defeat people who play even wrong-er, it's infuriating, because I knew more than I could do, and was stuck playing games where the entire match felt like trying to decipher the enigma code as to 'why the fuck would he do that?!?!?!?!?'.
Diamond ryu but the entire rank plays like that.
How can you strategize against someone that don't even know what they're doing...... best quote in life
BRAIN F
Mindset is definitely part of it.
Never seen someone convey a part of my journey I couldn’t put into words ! That’s awesome.
It reminds me so much of starcraft... Players who cheese are 'worse' but they beat me, how can that be?! And the answer from above is 'just macro' (in fighting games its 'just anti air' or 'let them hang themselves') but the bronze players that are stuck either can't see it, don't have the skill for the simple game plan, or let the salt overwhelm their ability to play the way you need to play against these tactics.
Great stuff, thanks for bringing that post to light.
After watching this today I went into a 10-win streak shooting from Bronze 2 to Silver 2 in SF6. Thanks Brian.
Those early ranks are disrespectful monkey matches, embrace your monkey and clean em up so you can level up to the fun ranks.
This is a great topic and something a lot of players need to hear. I've been in the FGC for roughly 15 years at this point, but I mostly play Tekken where I consider myself pretty good. Trying to play SF6 (hello from the future) I was getting mad because my SF fundamentals have worn off a fair bit over the years having not had much interest in 4 or 5. This lead to frustration at first even though I find SF6 to be quite fun. Routinely I would just continuously down and throw out a crouch fierce to some goober who would not stop jumping in despite the fact that it clearly wasn't working. I was mad at these players for being so scrubby and annoying me with their playstyle.
But then, as I was facing a Ryu the truth hit me. He can only be a scrub at that time because that's all he knows. When I realized that all the Ryu player could be was a scrub I suddenly didn't feel like maybe he had the strategy he did just to annoy me. I then took at deep breath and just proceeded to punish all of the obvious stuff he was doing.
TLDR - don't get mad at scrubs for being scrubs. They can't help it. Use the strategy that will beat that specific scrub - then you will be on your way.
So true. When I started playing in 2019, I hated and wanted to know nothing about frames. It all seemed confusing. I learned combos, whiff punishing, throw teching, and some footsies. It was a loooong road of frustration, but it's a completely different game now. I am always playing battle lounge and routinely beating much higher ranked players. Never cared for ranked. When I get destroyed, at least now I know why. The game takes a lot of time.
New to SFV, been playing street fighter and fighting games since I was kid. Grew up getting shoryu’d and told “Don’t Jump” and beaten 50+ times in a row in Tekken 2 by my older brothers. I couldn’t imagine learning fighting games from scratch as an adult.
Hit Gold after a month of playing.
Most frustrating thing about SFV is not knowing the matchups and feeling like there isn’t enough time before SF6 comes out to learn them all.
In the lower ranks you fight Ken every other match. That's true.
I just hit Super Silver today and I definitely relate to how chaotic and unpleasant the bronze stuff feels. Still have a long way to go but I can see leveling up as a matter of practice and refinement now, rather than learning a whole new language spoken exclusively by screaming toddlers.
TLDR: trying to do the right thing in SFV is hard. Trying to do the right thing in gg/dbfz/tekken is easy.
kinda crazy how in every other fighting game I would only spend ~5 hours in training mode and able to climb out of scrub masher zone and feel good about it.
this game I had to spend over 100 hours of gameplay just to learn the most basic mundane elementary tutorial of this game: anti-air DP, meaty and hit confirms.
After all this time I still miss my anti-airs, I still miss the confirmskis, I still get wakeup DP/throw when trying to meaty. This is way more about a fight against myself than a fight against my enemy.
SF players are definetly built different
you're expected to be getting low parries in tekken in way higher ranks than "bronze", but in this game you are expected to consistently anti-air from the very beginning
they are both mechanics based on reaction/prediction, but my reward here is 5% dmg instead of a 50% dmg tekken combo
punishing a scrub in tekken is as easy as step back and launch, then take all the time in the world to execute a fancy combo that took you 30 minutes to learn. Repeat this twice and gg.
punishing a scrub in sf takes more than just block then sweep, you will get punished for trying to do the right thing with lack of hundred hours muscle memory, you will drop links, he will punish you for dropping links, you will accidently throw a special too late trying to hit confirm, he will block and punish you. You don't repeat a whiff punish twice and gg, you repeat it 10 times and pray to god you dont sabotage yourself in the process
Brian youre exactly what the fgc needs. Pure gold.
its a fantasy to expect players to give you the courtesy of playing a “gentlemans game” when anyone at anytime can be the nutty scrub that ruins your win streak or ranks you back down. playing those unpredictable, or undisciplined challengers has value in it nonetheless.
you were right in your video about your rank being accurate. i tried climbing my way out of bronze for the better part of the year, and once i got to those silver players and they’re not all scrubby and i lose then it really is just me sucking. it doesn’t matter how your opponent plays in regards to either mashing or well composed; if you suck you suck. ❤-your boy, forever bronze
My first fighting game, my friends taught me a handfull of basic combos. Then proceeded to beat my ass for 8 hours straight screaming punish me/telling me whos turn it is/etc. Absolute hell but i learned so much.
I wish I could get anywhere near the cross roads but, I've always been bad at fighting games and I never had the reactions to play well even as a young man. I gave it a solid try back in the Street Fighter IV days but, I handicapped myself trying to learn Honda, on a PS3, using an input lag heavy television with a middling internet connection, and used a game pad but even trying on a stick I just couldn't make it all make sense for my hands. As Woolie from the Super Best Friends once said, "You either have what it takes to actually play fighting games or you don't." However, I do like and respect fighting games and love analyzing the game play similar to my love of Chess. It became a hobby all on its own for me to watch fighting games played at the highest level.
Appreciate the video and all the other ones dealing with the frustration and fun of fighting games.
I hid in Super Platinum for like 3 years until SF6 was officially announced. I set the goal to get to diamond which I accomplished 2 months ago. Given, Ive beaten those low rank diamond players but getting Diamond was a Whole new ballgame. Masters and Ultra Diamonds are sweaty AF. But they have taught me the importance of training mode recording and rewatching your lost matches.
Avoidingthepuddle said it best in a tekken match against a kazuya/dragonuv.
"The biggest different between his kazuya/dragonuv compared to the last guy (a strong kazuya/dragonuv) is that one of them just kills himself." Aris didnt even have to play well or make plays. All he had to do was wait for his opponent to choose an option that will cause himself to lose the round.
Bouncing between gold and super gold now as I just bought my first arcade stick two weeks ago - been having a lot of fun!
Also I love Strive but completely agree the design of ranked is goofy af
Congrats keep it up
This is wild, my first fighting game I picked up seriously was tekken 7, soo I had a completely different experience learning fighting games.
Me and my mates always played tekken as kid mashing buttons ect since tekken 5dr, after getting burnt out on modern fps games, we decided to learn how to properly play tekken, long story short because we went in with a learning mindset set we didn’t get frustrated about stuff we didn’t know, for example my mate got pissed at me spamming lows and grab, and I said well let’s slow down and find a way to beat it. We basically stoped the match and try to figure out how to beat each other, if we really stuck we looked it up online. Honestly just having one friend at your lvl is soo important because u can ask to slow down the match to actually learn the game.
learning how to eat bronze players up is an important skill to learn. it doesn't even take much, you just need to know your anti-airs, one punish combo, and patience
As someone who loves Tekken, Tekken 7 absolutely deserves to catch strays.
You mentioned not knowing much about MK 11 ranked. It has 4 week seasons with rank resets and an unranked week every 5th week. A wifi indicator with no decline option. Love the game, playing ranked is a miserable waste of time.
A tip about in life about getting better in general - think retrospectively and learn. Games are really great for this as they basically give you a chance over and over again. If you can be bothered to learn a drop of street fighter, just learn to understand what is happening and find the right thing to do. In bronze, that option is very small - the amount of players you can beat with just sweeps, or anti airs or block and hp + special move punish.
Bronze players don't respect, don't care about going negative, aren't trying to predict you, will try the same bullshit over and over with zero plan...and I can't imagine what it would have been like if I didn't come into 5 straight off some other fighting games, fresh with tech and practice. OH YEAH, I ALMOST FORGOT ONE: Bronzies don't block.
It took about 150 hours but when I hit gold it felt like the promised land. Still some gimmicks but it was nice since I was only playing people that had climbed the bronze and silver randomness mountain.
Still occasionally feel like that in Diamond and while it has gotten better, my main gripe with SF5 is that there are some "just doing things" actions players can do that are actually pretty hard to counter except if they do it really sloppily. Checking some dashes for example is mechanically hard to a point where reacting to it without predicting is challenging even to players way better than me.
getting dashed on is probably one of the most annoying things in this game. especially when throw loops were a thing and Nash's first 2 frames didn't animate LOL
I walked away from this game 2 weeks after release because it was so bad. I started playing the game again last week. It’s very difficult learning the matchups and what each character can do especially with V trigger and V skills. I’m slowly improving though.
"so so excited to fight people besides ken" is real
Fighting games have very low accessibility. Thats the problem. It shows itself in many ways like the "bronze dilemma" that Brian talked about here but its also much more than that.
I do make similar experiences, random stuff is just thrown at you, but that's not just in bronze that continues in silver as well. adding to the random stuff for me is I get ultra nervous once a match starts, even forgetting basics, once a match is over I need to take deep breathes to calm down
The bronze saga continues once more! Missed this anime
I have this theory that every fighting game has what’s called “the valley of despair” in online play.
I’ve ranked up the ladder pretty high in a few fighting games and noticed in several games, particularly ones I didn’t necessarily grow up playing, there was this period in ranked where I got stuck at low ranks, but I could also beat higher ranked players in non-ranked or offline matches. I practiced fundamentals and could execute. The weird thing was, too, once I got out of the low ranks, I started to climb much more consistently up the ranks. After thinking about it for a while I realized that fighting games suck at low rank because it’s actually harder to learn a fighting game against players who don’t know what they’re doing, because they might do anything. At high ranks fighting games are like a game of chess, but at low rank half the time it’s a guessing game.
I've been hardstuck in Gold forever in SFV but Bronze was hell, learn one meaty setup and litteraly cruise through, Bronze players be mashing on everything
Sf6: if you want to get to gold, Learn ONE full punish combo. Then, just hold downback with your finger on the DI button... Then just wait... Now unleash your combo.
I feel like this is only a problem in the home console era. *Put on a pipe and reading glasses* Back in the arcade only days, there is just a natural hierarchy of things. If you suck, you play in the noob cabinet, usually ones with unreliable joystick or button. And the good players play in the other. You wait your turn when you lose. Noobs can easily spectate and watch how good players play. Of course you can watch very high level game play now but you don't have to do that when you play on console, you can just play play play. In the arcade, you are forced to observe when it's not your turn. I think the bronze player would have had this realization first couple of weeks of SF5 if this game is arcade only.
Most of my games in Silver are incredibly frustrating. Once I got to the high end of Ultra Silver and started fighting Gold players, the game became so much more enjoyable. The difference in quality was night and day and I was enjoying games I lost
Thats a very nice video, thanks Sajam.
Pretty sure this is Jiyuna.
I have actually been figuring this out for myself over the last couple weeks (just got to silver a few days ago!!) but it sure feels good to have confirmation that I wasn’t going crazy. I kept thinking “I’m better than this guy but he’s still kicking my ass, what’s going on?” I feel like I’m pretty good at judging my own abilities and I knew I was far from good yet but certainly better than these guys throwing out random unsafe stuff or walking back near their corner and literally just standing there waiting for me to come up and make the slightest mistake. So yeah, super frustrating. A while back I thought, “I started taking this seriously at the release of SF6 so that I could “get good” but what I’ve really been doing this whole time is just preparing to play the game. So I sure am excited to start actually playing soon!
I love this! I am Bronze and it’s this big learning experience! I try to study a little bit and then focus on one thing each session. (Anti air, not jumping so much, countering DI spam)
That said I do not enjoy when I feel like the other person is just spamming DI, ex, and throws and wins. I don’t feel out skilled just out spammed lol.
I will say to the low ranked players with me who are honing your skills and beating me with technical prowess, I respect you and I see you! You make me wanna keep playing!
@@FunctionalFreedomFitI feel you brother. I’m a silver rashid main and it’s weird getting used to dp(or in my case Mixer) to anti air and when I’m focusing on anti airing and get DI’d it feels like I’m getting beat by random options. But maybe he had a read and I should react to that so it’s all a learning opportunity
I had similar issues in the past, when I would primarily play offline at locals or tournaments - not necessarily at a high level (could usually keep up with commentators in casuals, but get absolutely washed by the pros etc) - so I was used to the game being played "properly", then on the rare occassions I'd actually play online, due to low ranks I'd not know how to deal with the sheer randomness, and would then get super salty about losing rounds in Bronze & Silver ranks. There's me trying to play neutral, and respecting their neutral and they're just out there living their best YOLO life... xD
My mental health hinders me more than anything. I love fighting games but i can't handle losses and my own mistakes no more. And the more i lose the more impact it has on me and my surroundings, obviously. Then a lot of stuff happens in my mind. Results are destroyed arcade sticks, rage quits, bringing myself down and feeling even worse after those. Of course there are good and bad days, too.
I like the vid, I like the point. But I do think there's a viable counter-point to be made : It is usually easier to do something yourself than to prevent a player from doing something in a fighting game. And I definitely feel that's to help people who are getting started or just looking to play casually. You're not likely gonna get hard shutdown by players of lower levels, and so that probably creates a decent amount of variance where you'll often "have your way".
It certainly doesn't help the enjoyability for someone approaching these games through the lens of "I'm gonna play a gentlemen's bout" like the post in the vid said. I'm not saying it's necessarily a better solution overall, but I feel it's true of literally every fighting game at low level. Doing stuff = easy, preventing stuff = hair pulling hard
I didn't have that realization, never had those thoughts, I quit fighting games and just said that we cannot get into everything we like, we like stuff but we may not have the skill to get good at it at a pace we enjoy it and that was it, but your thoughts were really insightful Brian, it's true, a ken player in ranked spamming the same stupid crap is really frustrating.
You can literally get out of bronze by just hitting meaty wake ups and if they have an invincible DP baiting it out every now and then.
I picked up SFV 3 weeks ago when I haven’t played since launch and got to silver in a week!
This is a great explanation!
I have the same issue like the guy in the first half. Besides my character crisis issues and the rollback, when I would play sfv I would be stressing and get frustrated. Every loss felt like i sucked ass but every win felt like i won evo twice. Eventually i did get to silver. I want to continue to because sf6 on the horizon and develop better fundamentals and less shaky hands but need to get over that hump.
I recently started playing sfv and was playing a lot of games with my friend in silver who got me into fighting games as a whole. He destroyed me winning 90% of our games but I was having fun learning to play poison and ways she would interact with certain characters. Especially the mind games with the poison balrog matchup when he was playing balrog. But he destroyed me a lot with Dan and that was quite demotivating no matter how much he tried to explain Dan was his most played character and he’s balanced well enough to not even be that far behind the cast, just have big weaknesses I as a beginner wouldn’t see. I went into ranked and seeing things like kens do nothing but jump was frustrating, but playing a bison who would spam teleport the moment he entered my whip range so I could predictively use the up kick special to punish was very funny.
I'm not sure why, but sfv is the game where this feels to be the biggest issue. I feel like when climbing through tekken and GGS/GGXX I still felt like everybody I went up against was trying to improve/fighting respectfully and I had a blast losing and winning against people who felt around my level. SFV specifically feels like everyone below about gold or silver just throws out whatever or spams whatever until they get a win. Anyone theorize why this seems to be the case for sfv specifically?
If he doesn't solve the root of the problem in SF, it will appear in every other game. Just at a different extent. Great take.
I absolutely think there's so much more that could be done with single-player content in fighting games. Nintendo has been teaching players to do complex shit in video games for actual decades through well-integrated soft tutorials, and i think that fighting games could easily learn from that and actually teach their games without just dumping novels worth of tutorials on the player before they even get to push one button.
I have been talking to my friends about this for years, but I'm never able to explain myself the way you do. Great video.
You know, that second post mentality is the kind of person that would definitely flame others on a MOBA after having fed mid for 20 min straight. Fighting games do have things to improve, but in this case it's definitely a personality problem and not a genre one. Winning is nice and all but it's a byproduct of you learning and having fun in whatever game or sport you're taking part of. Those who sacrifice both just in favor or getting that sweet "victory" makes the experience miserable not only for themselves, but to everyone around them. Kudos for not being harsher on the dude, I wouldn't have pulled any punches. lol
Thanks for the video Brian, really helped freshen my mindset and I say that as a player still trying to learn in bronze ;)
Recently had pretty much the same experience. Was stuck in bronze for 3 years, playibg on and off. After I went to my first local i got a few tips and got to play people in diamond and gold, got home and in very few sesions i got to ultra silver and is soon in gold!
That's also the same in Rocket League. You can get from bronze to gold and maybe even beyond purely by defending and having solid rotation.
Your entire team doesn't have to leave the ground once to achieve that let alone advanced techniques like dribbling etc.. 90% of low level players will defeat themselves sooner or later because they don't respect rotation and overcommit.
If players don't have a feel for basic positioning, bronze becomes the random, frustating mess many low level players complain about.
This explains what I’m struggling with. I’ve just started a month ago. I play Ryu atm. I played against a Ken, who was just spamming specials I just couldn’t do anything as there was no rhyme or rhythm to it. Then a high level played a Ryu who hit me with a combo I saw the rhythm blocked punished. I got beat still but when I blocked they took a step back because they knew I wasn’t just throwing random shit. It felt good.
I just got out of Silver rank and oh boy, Gold really does make a difference. Don't get me wrong, some people will still play like they are in Silver but my match quality is 100 times better than it was at the lower ranks. I totally agree on the points you made Brian, it sucks to suck, but once you learn to suck it up and just sit back you can do it!
keys to getting in to the game is 1. anti air, 2 punish. thats everything.
as someone who gave up on sfv, I can relate to this. I just wasn't having fun. i got to silver early in season 1, but was never ever to climb out of it. I just never felt like I knew what I was doing in the game. but also like Brian said, I don't really know how to articulate what my exact problems were. I just know I wasn't having any fun and ranked was SUPER stressful. and while ranked is eh in Strive. I can easily say, for whatever reason, I was having way more fun with Strive. I actually felt like I was playing the game and understood what I was doing. I felt I could play in my comfort zone and still do OK. not sure why that wasn't the case in sfv.
It's true that all FGs can feel completely different at low vs high levels of play but it's a worse problem in SF than other games for two major reasons: skewed risk-rewards at low levels and less emphasis on system mechanics. Jump-ins are a good example of both in practice. Jump-ins are high reward / low risk option at low levels since it leads to an easy combo and probably a knockdown whereas a countering with an anti-air leads to mild damage and maybe no knockdown. And because there's no systems like a universal anti-air, disjointed anti-airs, or attribute invulnerable attacks, low level players have a harder time learning and executing character specific or situational anti-airs. This makes it such that a single, difficult skill like anti-airing becomes a huge gatekeeper at low levels. Contrast this with super dashes in DBFZ (as Brian mentioned) where every character gets a combo and a knockdown from the universal 2H punish (this was true at launch at least, haven't played DBFZ since then).
Every FG has low-level gatekeeper mechanics but SF's are genuinely more difficult to counter effectively. If a new SF player is genuinely frustrated with low-level play in SFV, they might enjoy the learning curves of other FGs better.
Here's a random Idea
Match making that lets u priorities or even filter certain characters
Obviously not something so extreme that it completely blacklists a character but just a light to moderate filter
I do find it kind of discouraging when I feel like I can only win against people who are playing the game "correctly," but getting absolutely buttslammed by people who play in a way that feels less like a game and more like being subject to a scam to get free wins.
Yeah this mirrored my experience. I was taking it really seriously and it was frustrating when the players I was facing weren’t respecting my sick frame traps or whatever the fuck. Then I relayed this to someone and they said “well they don’t respect you, so don’t respect them” and I realised that I had been expecting them to play what I thought the game was and abide by the rules but the bronze Ken doesn’t care about whether he’s safe or not. He’s just going to mash DP anyway. The minute I stopped giving these people respect my wins blew up.
I feel like I improved immensely from playing people way higher rank than me. 3 months ago, as a bronze I just hopped in high rank lobbies and hoped they let me stay. I tanked my winrate to 20% overall, but now I feel confident that I can take a round off anyone, and sometimes if I'm on even sets off anyone up to super diamond. Needless to say after that I went from bronze to gold
sfv has the best ranked of any fg I played. I am in silver and the lowest rank I get matched up against is ultra bronze and the highest is ultra silver. So the lowest is just below me almost at the same level and the highest is not that high but enough to be a challenge. It's a really good system idk what that second guy is talking about.
I started with sft2, I've always been a casual player since the 90's and I still enjoy stf. I played stf5 on ps4 with 32 inch tv, switched to pc a couple of weeks and what a difference, I feel like I'm learning the game again. It's way better in pc.
Fantasy Strike did a lot of things right.
Easy Inputs, limited movesets, graphical hints if something is + or - (so you know the next time)
the only sin was mirrorguy, because he was intentionally confusing (and you had to lab him otherwise you just get shmixed)
sadly, the community was so small I had to wait 30 min for a ranked game. That was no fun at all
and In Discord, 95% of people were Master, so gap was huge.
If it had better marketing or a big IP to draw players in, I think something like Fantasy Strike would make a perfect beginner/intermediate game
I come from Kiler Instinct (2013) Killer Rank, when i first played the beta for SFV i thought maybe i could be great in this game but i sucked complete ass. For 3 years i was stuck in Silver rank and just couldnt climb. i truthfully quit for about a year. Then i decided that it was time to play again and suddenly i was winning more games and playing for punishes but i only did that after sitting down on my days off and playing my bad mu in training mode to see where i went wrong. Now im a Super diamond getting crushed by masters players but the game has never felt so fun.
Literally for any new player. Focus on Punishing and Anti-Airing. Thats literally all you need at the lower levels. Let them jump at you, and let them bust out the random DP. Punish them accordingly. That simple.
it is extremely easy to punish mfs in low level dbfz all you gotta work on is knowing what situations you should 2h super dash or if you should just keep blocking cause the upper body invincibility doesnt come in instantly
Gold feels like more of the same, racing to find first order optimal strategies to abuse while holding some amount of competence. I don't feel like I progressed much when I run into smurfs (85%+ winrates) or players who jump again, and again, and again.
Hm,interesting. Bronze is just the random ryus and casuals I think that tells by itself.
Well I guess I might watch later maybe I’m assuming much and this seems like one of those really good videos with mentality and attitude and better competitive mindset that got me into the game and truly doing well with past videos of yours,shit in every other game it has helped keep consciousness. But hey well,dunno dunno
Watching now 2 months later,had a huge misunderstanding this is good.
Many grabs were landed after this video
Fun story. After getting my fifth character to Brawler I took a roughly year long break from Tekken 7, when I got back I was expecting to have forgotten everything and be completely awful at the game. To my surprise I felt like I had actually gotten a lot better at the game, I believe this was mostly due to watching a specific RUclips video. At some point the video goes over how nobody at low ranks knows how to sidestep or kbd and will generally panic under pressure, knowing this you can basically just spam 1 jab, df1, and the occasional low and just destroy them. While this is certainly true and very funny when you pull it off, what it really did was open my eyes to playing “true” Tekken. Suddenly the game made a lot more sense and became far easier. Dragunov was the first character where it really felt like I knew what I was doing and what I wanted to do. I was finally able to play “proper” Tekken. I can’t actually find the video again unfortunately, I thought it was a JDCR teaches his viewers video but I could be wrong.
It is rough playing from Hawaii. Despite having a 1Gig down/ 800Mb up fiber connection it is rare if ever to get a 5 bar match. Also it is noticeable there is a lag between when I press a button and it arrives on screen vs when I see people from the continental United States or Japan. When I visited a friend in California, he has only a 250mb connection, but it felt like there was no real lag in button press to execution. I guess regardless of being wired on a super fast pc with the fastest internet in town, it takes a few moments for commands to go across an ocean. Offline I'm pretty descent at playing defensive and reactive. Online, punishing is so hard