That transition was slick Edit: I mean this in the nicest way possible. The outro gave me some real middle school science class movie day vibes. I loved it.
The RUclips algorithm never notified me that you existed… shame on it. Nice concise video about something I haven’t seen anyone else doing. Thanks for sharing.
Seeing mods like this makes me want to upgrade my Voron again, but then again i don't want to mess with it cause its in an working state. Really looking forward to the Voron Tap video. Still undecided on upgrading from kicky. But it looks way more reliable than anything else.
Note that once TAP is installed, you could print some features onto that carbon fiber plate, then take it all over to the CNC and cut a finished part out Additive + Subtractive processes on the same part.
Good idea for the filtration and vacuum when milling carbon fiber. You may already know this, but just in case you haven’t run across it - carbon fiber dust is conductive so you have to be careful with electronics nearby as the dust can get in there and cause you some electrical issues later on. Great video!
The entire additive manufacturing angle on industry is becoming increasingly interesting in general. Just a decade ago I wouldn't have imagined stuff like what's being done by companies like DM or Nano Dimension, let alone a dude in his home doing carbon fiber printing. Amazing world :)
Advancing the skills and abilities is what it's all about. I was talking to someone about printing ABS and they were like why would you want to print ABS instead of PLA? Aside from the obvious superiority of the material for certain applications, its really just to improve the process. Good stuff.
Great video! Glad you mentioned the issues with cutting carbon fiber. That stuff is nasty. I'm excited to see the adxl graphs/ringing difference between the printed and cnced gantries.
Yeah, that's not sawdust. Carbon fiber dust will literally embed in your/your kids lungs like miniature needles. IMHO, a shopvac really is not sufficient safety. Ever seen Pagani cutting CF on RUclips? They literally wear spacesuits.
You could also have gone with fibre glass, it's almost the same but much cheaper. Carbon fibre has it's place, but if you don't do it for the cool factor (as you said) it doesn't make any sense. You can achieve the same thing with glas, it's just a bit heavier: And since this isn't a fast moving part, you wouldn't notice it. Just a heads up to anyone wanting to do something similar. Glas is at least 5 times cheaper than CF. In 3D Printing people know it as gyrolite, G10 or FR4. It's literally all the same stuff.
There is another way to make CF parts. Use your printer to make a female mold. You place the fiber and the epoxy in the mold and then press it with clamps and let the epoxy cure. Then take the mold apart. The trick is making the mold, you need to sand and polish the inside and coat it with mold-release wax. Or print the mold in water-soluble plastic and soak it. The parts can have any shape you like. Maybe you have to do some very minimal machine work, like reaming holes.
This is really nice step by step, I love the video! And the following comment is only meant as constructive feedback. As a humble mechanical engineer, I believe that the stiffness haven't improved drastically with this new design. Yes CFRP has some really good stiffness properties. But you loose a ton of co-planar stiffness with the polymer spacers ( they have a small diameter, and they are quite weak in compression forces). So with a few minor design adjustment's, the stiffness could be greatly improved. Upgrading the spacers to GFRP/CFRP tube spacer's cut at the correct length (and straight cuts). Increase the number/diameter of spacer's. This would give this box construction a high degree of stiffness in most directions.
The resin matrix in that carbon fiber is a thermoset rather than a thermoplastic, so if you get a sheet with the right epoxy it should be able to handle high temperatures (higher than the ABS you'd previously used). Aerospace-grade epoxies can go up to ~300C without deforming. This is actually the reason why thermosets have continued to dominate the aerospace markets - it's only fairly recently that thermoplastic resins like PEEK have started to get up towards the required temperatures.
for the locating features, you could cut slots into the plate and glue in some sort of key that is then proud of the surface of the part and works as a locating feature.
The locating feature is parallel to the screw holes, just use a second pi3ce of carbon with the same holes cut, or do a 3d print 2mm thick by 3mm thick with screw holes and have a sandwiched piece, itll work Great.
Most of my voron is aluminium; I'm actually considering making the extruder from carbon fiber, aluminium or even steel at the moment using my big CNC. But: I do like the carbon fiber idea, it might actually be better because it's so much lighter. I do agree that you have to be careful with that stuff... these fibers are very carcinogenic, and they will give you cancer if you're not careful. The components you have there are some of the ones I have made from aluminium. In fact, i used conical spring washers for mounting the idlers. You can really put them in as tight as you can reasonably can, and they will make your prints more stable because the bearings have no place to go. As for the benefits that people ask about in the comments? Basically, if it's more rigid and stable, you can throw more force at it and still get the same results. There's little or no wear and since nothing moves, the speed matters little for the precision.
Nero, it would be awesome to see a video on Tap. I know things are subject to change. But it would be nice to see an overview on it, what would need to be changed, etc. I completed my 2.4 a little while ago, using a lot of your videos to help me through the process, since I'm a noob. I have been happy with my Omron probe up to this point on Stealthburner, but am considering if tap is a wise upgrade for me.
When you cut carbon fiber plate, do you ever seal the new edges you created with epoxy? Maybe the cnc cutters are good enough to leave smooth edges without chipping or fraying.
Useful video! I'm about to machine a new CF midplate for the dual 5015 hotend setup on my SK-Tank...it'll be replacing a printed part, and should be a perfect job for my MPCNC (running Duet and RRF). Quick question, for the CF gantry on the Tank, Ernest recommends sealing the edges of the CF pieces with superglue, but I didn't see you do anything like that. Do you feel it's not necessary?
I actually just picked up a used Shapeoko 3 for a whopping $125usd. The Makita router it came with is worth that. A no-brainer. I've been wanting a CNC router at home for years anyway, since I don't want to experiment and cut weird things at work. The problem is, with being used to 5'x10' machines, the 16"x16" cutting area seems almost useless. Might have to use the machine as a building block to build a larger machine. We'll see what actually happens. I haven't even put the machine together yet. 😅
Love this content… Keep up the good work Sir. Crazy question…would you ever consider klipperizing the CNC (not sure what/how your CNC HW/SW set up is, will watch the live stream)? I have an MPCNC and love the klipper environment and was thinking “what if I klipperized it”…at the end of the day, the main board/SW is repurposed 3D printer/marlin based…why not?…thoughts?
Problem with that is klipper is missing a bunch of the gcode commands CNC machines use to operate, even RRF requires i do some post processing to the gcode to make it happy
If you like Klipper but want to drive CNC, Look into "Linux CNC" or just "LCNC". CNC is more com[plex them printing. For example, think about a ball end mill. The tools can be of different sizes and shapes. Let's not even talk about 4 and 5-axis machines. In this video, we saw only very basic 2D milling.
I consider reprinting everything in PC blend but I could mod my cnc to be able to cut aluminum… Not sure yet. In the end I want a heated chamber to get to 80-90c.
Opinions on using lasercut stainless steel for these parts instead? That's what I'm considering for upgrading my setup. As I see it, rigidity is roughly the same as CF, it is heavier but since this is not moving mass it is not a problem. And it can be done pretty cheaply in a lot of shops. Granted, it doesn't have nearly as much glam as CF, but as a pragmatic option maybe?
Not related to the CF parts (which look reaaally neat btw !), yet curious about TAP. Using optical switches over mechanical ones, ok, yet why not piezo discs ? Like piezo probes, you know. Besides extra electronics, of course.
I just generated DXFs from the sketches off the existing CAD model and did a few "manual" tweaks in carbide create to get it to a workable state Unfortunatly that also means the final product isnt exactly something im confident in sharing
Spacers and lack of centering features on lower dimensional accuracy machine vs weaker material. Suppose rigidity gains would be lost in play... Kudos for CF machining, I failed dramatically trying to machine 5mm carbon plate for mk3s by hand.
I was planning to say "when will we see a new tosty boy aka vulcan man made out of carbon fiber, heat resistant enough to print that ultum/ peek spool you have laying around somewhere." but since appearenty the resin melts at higher tempretures, I'm not sure anymore this is possible hahahaha not gonna lie would be cool to see you make an entire printer with carbon parts and a "homemade" printer capable of printing ultum hahhaha
True, and this is why ill be keeping an eye on it for a potential followup But also i tend not to run my machines crazy hot so on paper im not hitting those temps
So im still pretty new to the at home cnc stuff, a 3018 or comgrow robocnc like im using here are relatively cheap and beginner friendly, albeit limiting in capabilities
Not really, the material costs+time it takes to machine+shipping+the need to make a profit on it for it to be worth my time really doesnt make this scale of manufacturing parts a viable thing
I love how everyone likes to be an environmental health & safety inspector with their safety warnings on RUclips 🤣 We drill and cut through stack ups of composite and carbon fiber on the F35 daily. Yea it’s not good to breathe it in but our own safety inspectors don’t come around acting like that with their warning 😂
Two reasons really 1 not everyone knows how to be safe around everything, so a reminder/overview in the video can help some folks 2. if i DONT do it, while the engagement would be nice, videos would get a ton of comments about how im NOT covering safety.
@@CanuckCreator not to mention it's scientifically proven that carbon fiber dust is insanely detrimental to your lungs. Everyone needs to be aware of that. It's as insane as people who don't wear masks when working with fiberglass resins. Haha. Kudos to being safe when publicly showing processes like this. The general population have no clue to the dangers.
That was one of your better videos. You seemed more relaxed.
yeah this guy is always filled with anger for some reason.
@@user-yk1cw8im4h why you haff to be mad, its only game?
That transition was slick
Edit: I mean this in the nicest way possible. The outro gave me some real middle school science class movie day vibes. I loved it.
This year one my main goals is to do more videos with a bit more to them. Glad you liked it
I'd love to see a dedicated video on the CNC. Been looking for a small CNC to learn on
You might as well just buy a cnc3018 for a little over $100. They are not great at all, but cheap as shit and very fun to use.
It would be cool to see the benefits in for the x/y joins made from carbon fiber. I imagine it's best to use CF on parts that are moving
Haha "I'm going to do what those RUclipsrs do" It's magic!
The RUclips algorithm never notified me that you existed… shame on it. Nice concise video about something I haven’t seen anyone else doing. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers
Seeing mods like this makes me want to upgrade my Voron again, but then again i don't want to mess with it cause its in an working state.
Really looking forward to the Voron Tap video. Still undecided on upgrading from kicky. But it looks way more reliable than anything else.
Note that once TAP is installed, you could print some features onto that carbon fiber plate, then take it all over to the CNC and cut a finished part out Additive + Subtractive processes on the same part.
With freezing temperatures, you can also use the water/ice to 'clamp' you parts to the bed ;)
Big brain move
I've always been curious about jumping into CNCs so I'd love a video talking about yours.
Good idea for the filtration and vacuum when milling carbon fiber. You may already know this, but just in case you haven’t run across it - carbon fiber dust is conductive so you have to be careful with electronics nearby as the dust can get in there and cause you some electrical issues later on. Great video!
yep. I dont know if id be milling CF on a brand new CNC ...
Been using my cnc mill for cutting carbon for 3 years and still no problem. Just make sure no fans can directly suck dust in there.
You’ve done Exactly my thoughts for 3d printers bracing ❤ I’ve got the Comgrow Cnc too! Nice spindle upgrade.
The entire additive manufacturing angle on industry is becoming increasingly interesting in general. Just a decade ago I wouldn't have imagined stuff like what's being done by companies like DM or Nano Dimension, let alone a dude in his home doing carbon fiber printing. Amazing world :)
Advancing the skills and abilities is what it's all about. I was talking to someone about printing ABS and they were like why would you want to print ABS instead of PLA? Aside from the obvious superiority of the material for certain applications, its really just to improve the process. Good stuff.
Looking forward to see how it behaves on the long run. Well done! 👍
Great video! Glad you mentioned the issues with cutting carbon fiber. That stuff is nasty. I'm excited to see the adxl graphs/ringing difference between the printed and cnced gantries.
Yeah, that's not sawdust. Carbon fiber dust will literally embed in your/your kids lungs like miniature needles. IMHO, a shopvac really is not sufficient safety. Ever seen Pagani cutting CF on RUclips? They literally wear spacesuits.
You could also have gone with fibre glass, it's almost the same but much cheaper. Carbon fibre has it's place, but if you don't do it for the cool factor (as you said) it doesn't make any sense. You can achieve the same thing with glas, it's just a bit heavier: And since this isn't a fast moving part, you wouldn't notice it.
Just a heads up to anyone wanting to do something similar. Glas is at least 5 times cheaper than CF. In 3D Printing people know it as gyrolite, G10 or FR4. It's literally all the same stuff.
This basically. I've got a few sheets of cf on hand for drone stuff. Also it looks cooler on camera think lol
I like this video. You seam more comfortable with this. Keep up the work!
Looks cool glad I’m not the only one who wants to machine voron parts. I want to make some billet aluminum v0.1 drive units.
There is another way to make CF parts. Use your printer to make a female mold. You place the fiber and the epoxy in the mold and then press it with clamps and let the epoxy cure. Then take the mold apart. The trick is making the mold, you need to sand and polish the inside and coat it with mold-release wax. Or print the mold in water-soluble plastic and soak it. The parts can have any shape you like. Maybe you have to do some very minimal machine work, like reaming holes.
This is really nice step by step, I love the video! And the following comment is only meant as constructive feedback. As a humble mechanical engineer, I believe that the stiffness haven't improved drastically with this new design. Yes CFRP has some really good stiffness properties. But you loose a ton of co-planar stiffness with the polymer spacers ( they have a small diameter, and they are quite weak in compression forces). So with a few minor design adjustment's, the stiffness could be greatly improved. Upgrading the spacers to GFRP/CFRP tube spacer's cut at the correct length (and straight cuts). Increase the number/diameter of spacer's. This would give this box construction a high degree of stiffness in most directions.
very interesting, def starting to gain interest in cnc machines.
The resin matrix in that carbon fiber is a thermoset rather than a thermoplastic, so if you get a sheet with the right epoxy it should be able to handle high temperatures (higher than the ABS you'd previously used). Aerospace-grade epoxies can go up to ~300C without deforming. This is actually the reason why thermosets have continued to dominate the aerospace markets - it's only fairly recently that thermoplastic resins like PEEK have started to get up towards the required temperatures.
for the locating features, you could cut slots into the plate and glue in some sort of key that is then proud of the surface of the part and works as a locating feature.
Welcome to the world of tommorow!
I gotta get me a CNC…like asap. Good work dude.
Its a different beast than 3dp, but its fun
My body is ready. Haha. Especially for FPV. ;) Any suggestions for a “first” cnc?
Great video, +1 on overview of your CNC machine. I want to get a small desktop CNC. Thank you.
Would also be interested in a condensed CNC video. Don't often have time to watch the live streams.
This old Nero, nice.
I had to channel my inner ToT for this
@@CanuckCreator It's a slippery slope, how long until you make a cnc plasma cutter and start welding?
Nice work
The locating feature is parallel to the screw holes, just use a second pi3ce of carbon with the same holes cut, or do a 3d print 2mm thick by 3mm thick with screw holes and have a sandwiched piece, itll work Great.
A video on that CNC machine would be fantastic.
Most of my voron is aluminium; I'm actually considering making the extruder from carbon fiber, aluminium or even steel at the moment using my big CNC. But: I do like the carbon fiber idea, it might actually be better because it's so much lighter. I do agree that you have to be careful with that stuff... these fibers are very carcinogenic, and they will give you cancer if you're not careful.
The components you have there are some of the ones I have made from aluminium. In fact, i used conical spring washers for mounting the idlers. You can really put them in as tight as you can reasonably can, and they will make your prints more stable because the bearings have no place to go.
As for the benefits that people ask about in the comments? Basically, if it's more rigid and stable, you can throw more force at it and still get the same results. There's little or no wear and since nothing moves, the speed matters little for the precision.
Nero, it would be awesome to see a video on Tap. I know things are subject to change. But it would be nice to see an overview on it, what would need to be changed, etc. I completed my 2.4 a little while ago, using a lot of your videos to help me through the process, since I'm a noob. I have been happy with my Omron probe up to this point on Stealthburner, but am considering if tap is a wise upgrade for me.
When you cut carbon fiber plate, do you ever seal the new edges you created with epoxy? Maybe the cnc cutters are good enough to leave smooth edges without chipping or fraying.
I wonder what the cost from SendCutSend would be for the plates. I think they do CF plate now.
Useful video! I'm about to machine a new CF midplate for the dual 5015 hotend setup on my SK-Tank...it'll be replacing a printed part, and should be a perfect job for my MPCNC (running Duet and RRF). Quick question, for the CF gantry on the Tank, Ernest recommends sealing the edges of the CF pieces with superglue, but I didn't see you do anything like that. Do you feel it's not necessary?
I actually just picked up a used Shapeoko 3 for a whopping $125usd. The Makita router it came with is worth that. A no-brainer. I've been wanting a CNC router at home for years anyway, since I don't want to experiment and cut weird things at work. The problem is, with being used to 5'x10' machines, the 16"x16" cutting area seems almost useless. Might have to use the machine as a building block to build a larger machine. We'll see what actually happens. I haven't even put the machine together yet. 😅
That aint a bad deal, the size may pose an issue but will also mean a more rigid machine so thats good.
Just depends on your plans for it
You got a new sub bro, that's some cool parts 🙌🏻
You know you want to build a better CNC, and I bet it would be 💥💥 😅
Fusion's CAM is super easy IMO.
Came for the garage, saw 0 Lamborghinis. Tai Lopez wouldn't do this to me
Thats because its filled with knowledge instead
You could have tapped the m5 holes for the m5x30´s. did that on my old CF Gantry
True, i machine them with an ID small enough the threads would bite into it and it seemed to work
Also i couldnt find my 5mm tap
The epoxy resin of the carbon fiber laminate is way more temperature resistant than 3d printed parts.
I went abslike resin building mine, but once shes running right ill probably switch to carbon on a few parts.
What's the advantage of Tap over a load cell?
If I want the location feature for extrusion. I'll just dovetail slot and make the add in.
nice, great idea
are the DXF files available somewhere?
I know that carbon fiber = cool, but why not some black g10?
Love this content… Keep up the good work Sir. Crazy question…would you ever consider klipperizing the CNC (not sure what/how your CNC HW/SW set up is, will watch the live stream)? I have an MPCNC and love the klipper environment and was thinking “what if I klipperized it”…at the end of the day, the main board/SW is repurposed 3D printer/marlin based…why not?…thoughts?
Problem with that is klipper is missing a bunch of the gcode commands CNC machines use to operate, even RRF requires i do some post processing to the gcode to make it happy
If you like Klipper but want to drive CNC, Look into "Linux CNC" or just "LCNC". CNC is more com[plex them printing. For example, think about a ball end mill. The tools can be of different sizes and shapes. Let's not even talk about 4 and 5-axis machines. In this video, we saw only very basic 2D milling.
I consider reprinting everything in PC blend but I could mod my cnc to be able to cut aluminum… Not sure yet. In the end I want a heated chamber to get to 80-90c.
Is Carbon Fibre not to stiff ? I mean the machine was designed to be used with ABS so CF can be too stiff (like said in the voron docs)
any updates or tests on this?! I wonder how much faster it can go
Nice
Opinions on using lasercut stainless steel for these parts instead? That's what I'm considering for upgrading my setup. As I see it, rigidity is roughly the same as CF, it is heavier but since this is not moving mass it is not a problem. And it can be done pretty cheaply in a lot of shops. Granted, it doesn't have nearly as much glam as CF, but as a pragmatic option maybe?
Its a possibility, depends on cost if its worth it, rememeber, really not gonna see any massive changes in print quality with this sorta mod
Not related to the CF parts (which look reaaally neat btw !), yet curious about TAP. Using optical switches over mechanical ones, ok, yet why not piezo discs ? Like piezo probes, you know. Besides extra electronics, of course.
accuracy and reliability
What do you think is the best extruder for voron 0? Maybe LDO Orbiter?
Is there a possibility to get the files for the cnc? I would also like to have the motor mounts for the x and y motors milled from carbon.
I just generated DXFs from the sketches off the existing CAD model and did a few "manual" tweaks in carbide create to get it to a workable state
Unfortunatly that also means the final product isnt exactly something im confident in sharing
@@CanuckCreator okay. Thanks. And thanks for all the other Videos
That Odonata silhouette thou. 🤌 2:09
"carbon fiber, its cool, you get +10 points anyway" didn't age very well........
CNC video plz!!! 🙏
I'd like to see the video on the cnc3018. I have one and would like to update it with a screen.
Tell me your alter-ego is Botgrinder!
Spacers and lack of centering features on lower dimensional accuracy machine vs weaker material. Suppose rigidity gains would be lost in play... Kudos for CF machining, I failed dramatically trying to machine 5mm carbon plate for mk3s by hand.
I was planning to say "when will we see a new tosty boy aka vulcan man made out of carbon fiber, heat resistant enough to print that ultum/ peek spool you have laying around somewhere."
but since appearenty the resin melts at higher tempretures, I'm not sure anymore this is possible hahahaha
not gonna lie would be cool to see you make an entire printer with carbon parts and a "homemade" printer capable of printing ultum hahhaha
Doesn't Carbon Fiber start to delaminate at 60 deg C? I thought this was one of the objections to the carbon fiber X gantries.
True, and this is why ill be keeping an eye on it for a potential followup
But also i tend not to run my machines crazy hot so on paper im not hitting those temps
It all depends on the resin used. Some can be rated way higher.
@@Boogie3D some are even spec'd to thousands of degrees!
Fusion says for personal use 🤷♂️ Does not RUclips count and commercial? 🤑
Long as your not making 100k a year off it
What CNC would you suggest? That is my next purchase in the maker sphere of tools. Voron could/should come up with a kit/spec/design.
So im still pretty new to the at home cnc stuff, a 3018 or comgrow robocnc like im using here are relatively cheap and beginner friendly, albeit limiting in capabilities
look into the Milo v1.5 for a more space friendly cnc mill. its still in beta. im building it as we speak. mostly done manual, and full BOM available.
Check the printNC/ PrintNC mini.
@@CanuckCreator I appreciate the feedback! I will be grabbing one this spring some time. Cheers! Thanks for the videos!
@@justinwalker8364 SWEET! Thank you!
Any Chancre you think of selling the CF mounts?
Not really, the material costs+time it takes to machine+shipping+the need to make a profit on it for it to be worth my time really doesnt make this scale of manufacturing parts a viable thing
can I use these carbon fiber gantry parts on the trident ?
yep, the gantry on the v2 and trident are pretty much the same, just different mounting design
@@CanuckCreator much thanks for taking the time to reply.
carbon fiber gives you +10hp
Why not just get a metal printer or better materials to 3d print 🤔 🤷.
now watch aliexpress vendors copy and sell this in a few weeks
why did u do this?:p
Why not?
as carbon fiber has no real upgrade feel ?
@@CanuckCreator
I love how everyone likes to be an environmental health & safety inspector with their safety warnings on RUclips 🤣
We drill and cut through stack ups of composite and carbon fiber on the F35 daily. Yea it’s not good to breathe it in but our own safety inspectors don’t come around acting like that with their warning 😂
Two reasons really
1 not everyone knows how to be safe around everything, so a reminder/overview in the video can help some folks
2. if i DONT do it, while the engagement would be nice, videos would get a ton of comments about how im NOT covering safety.
@@CanuckCreator not to mention it's scientifically proven that carbon fiber dust is insanely detrimental to your lungs. Everyone needs to be aware of that. It's as insane as people who don't wear masks when working with fiberglass resins. Haha. Kudos to being safe when publicly showing processes like this. The general population have no clue to the dangers.
The Waffle House Has Found It's New Host
Just why ?? better to use aluminum those parts are not fast moving gantry to must be lightest :P Voron is over-hyped and over-engineered :P
why you haff to be mad?
I covered your question in the video anyways, suggest a re-watch
@@CanuckCreator I will, I'm not mad, just opinion not only my opinion.