Nice video, I have been shooting 5x4 since 1983. He says push/pulling changes contrast, it has a very very slight effect on this but pushing/pulling is designed to alter density/exposure. An the bellows exposure correction he adjusts the shutter exposure from 1/15th to 1/30th. This a stop darker! Bellows extension compensation is based on the inverse square law of physics and the exposure needs to be brighter. i.e. 1/8th plus. He aslo measures the bellows from lens to the corner of the film standard, ideally the measurement should follow the lens axis and be perpendicular to the film plane. Typical formula for bellows comp is if the bellows are twice the focal length then that is a 2 stop more exposure correction.
People need to think of digital and film as simply different mediums. Just as there is Charcoal, water colors, oil, and acrilycs, film and digital are more mediums allowing you more choices to capture your image.
no. they cannot be seen as different mediums, because they are NOT different mediums. they are nothing like the comparisions that you listed. its fine if you want to pretend for yourself, but for the rest of us, we will continue on with things as they are. They are the SAME medium that just uses different tools. so if we go off your list of art comparisions, they would be more akin to different brushes that you would use, instead of totally different mediums.
Large format cameras are the only advantage film has over digital imo. This is nothing to do with film per se just the movements available. There are large sensor, high megapixel technical cameras though but they cost a bucketload. You can make any look you want now with film and even create digital negatives and print in the darkroom, print on fine art papers etc.
large format is completely in a different league to digital. The size of the negative produces a far greater resolution than any digital camera. I own a digital camera, a 6x7 and 4x5 and my MF pisses over digital never mind my 4x5. Film cameras are precision tools and are more accurate and more fun to use. You have to be far more skilled to use film. While you crappy digital users are stood taking 100 shots of the same thing I'll take 2 exposures and move on. Film is a very deliberate process. Non of this shoot and hope business. The learning process is longer and deeper in film. Digital photography is a pile of crap and looks awful aesthetically. Compare the very best of what we have now to the very best of the film shooter generation and enough said. Film shooters were harder working and more talented and their work even today is far superior to the rubbish being churned out today on digital.
@@orion7741 The skill set and knowledge base for film and digital from start to finish is quite different. Composition is pretty much the same, but techniques for processing, interpretation, and printing go down radically different paths. If you know one, you can't automatically do the other. It all fits under the umbrella of photography, but that's a damn big umbrella, particularly when you consider alternative processes.
I have a gadget that has a square you put in the scene and a measuring device you measure the square at the ground glass to determine bellows factor. Not for all subjects but easy to use. I think it was sold by Calumet in the old days.
one tip, with Leaf-shuttered lenses for medium and large format (bronica/mamiya & Hasselblad V series); DE-COCK them for storage (long term) as the springs for the shutter can 'set' in the cocked position (lose their elasticity); so wear out sooner, and for these THEY are rare units, esp. LF shutters, so treat them gently, this is to preserve what we have, and keep using them for as long as we can.
Having shot 4x5 for a yrs, this was kinda cool to watch. I know about how costly Velvia is lol and I rarely used it, the camera I shot with was a monorail camera. I generally shot black and white only, with the exceptions of slide from time to time. I learned never to really get the sky into the picture, but generally plants and waterfalls around Mt Rainier with light coming down on it like rain. I couldn't afford a spot meter, so got a Polaris incident for about 60$ used. When I couldn't get what I wanted in the distance metered, I looked at the area around and metered off of it. Granted this is not as accurate I know, but it did work at the time. I never measure in inches, but in metrics (not something I ever thought about doing). Granted all this was Long before Covid was around, and there were no restrictions on travel or being other people. Hope you post more on the 4x5, as it's truly inspiring. I shoot a med format 6x8 camera has the capability to adjust the front element. So in some ways, it's like a large format.
@@forestchaput that's correct, however it's a bit clunky and heavy to carry on regular basis. I saw a few Fuji cameras and loved that most of them were interchangeable with the XF lenses.
I had thought about the GX680 series with tilt shift, it is a nice size negative, with nice features. I went to 4x5 and got a 6x9 roll film back when I want to shoot 6x9. The cost to shoot 4x5 in color is not cheap, so I look for deals on film which is rare.
I like your philosophical approach to using film, and the 4x5 format. I recently purchased a 4x5 Graflex press camera. I decided that I needed to create a darkroom in my home to be able to load the film, but also to be able to develop the film, and then print the film using an enlarger. to print an 8x10 from a 4x5 negative is only a 2x enlargement so the resolution should be good. I will likely also scan the film, both for the ability to archive the image, and to allow using digital image control to tweak the image to print digitally also.
Glad you enjoyed it! You only need total darkness for the loading/unloading of the film - you can use a small folding film changing pop-up tent for this. We have a video coming soon about developing at home and you'll see the tent in action there. For sure a darkroom for printing will be needed - and if you shoot any 120, check out Intrepid Camera's newest enlarger that they have on Kickstarter at the time of this message. I 'scan' my image with a Canon 5DSR mounted on a copy stand, and I use the Skier light from Negative Supply for the light source, and if i determine that the shot is good enough for an archival print, I'll send the image out for a drum scan.
I recently acquired an Omega View 45D that belonged to my father. Which is why I found your video quite enlightening. But my first question is: What exactly are those X-Wing and Millennium Falcon images behind you?
Big shame that Fuji is stopping production on velvia sheet films. You can also use an app for bellows factor, much easier than using sheets with math. For beginners I would also recommend you mention why you metered the way you did on the mountain photograph, being slide film vs black and white etc.
Hmm, why doesn't the film get exposed prematurely when you alter the lens aperture from wide open (to focus) and then back down to your chosen aperture after you've removed the dark slide..? 🤔 Thanks.
Bulb and Time. Bulb will keep the shutter open as long as you are holding it down, Time will open the shutter when you push the shutter button, then close it when you press it again.
Excellent video, incredibly helpful. I have recently, very recently, invested in an Intrepid and am taking my first images..... This is not a criticism as I really like your final result that you showed at 15:40 into the video - but, it seems a little under-exposed compared to the scene you were showing when you talked through the metering process. Is this the case or is this what you were seeking to get form the image?
For sure the film was a bit darker than what my camera person was seeing via a video camera - and my spot-metering was specifically aimed at the medium grey of the mountain tops and I checked that tone against the green forest, sections of blue sky as well as the darker foreground to determine my dynamic range. I shot a bracket of 4 shots of the scene and I preferred this one best. Velvia 100 has a bit of a magenta cast to it compared to Velvia 50, so I had to dial some of that out after the scan. This was what I was going for and I was being careful to not blow my highlights - but without a Polaroid, I'm making the best calculation I can and then enjoying the surprise after the develop!
I read that someone had assessed the increase in the cost of film relative to inflation and it turned out that over 40 years (1980s to 2020s), the relative cost of film is lower. The other issue I have with your assessment is that you were comparing a paid professional situation in your past (fashion shooting) vs unpaid "artist" situation now. It would have been easier to justify the cost in a paid shoot than an unpaid (but hoping someone will buy) shoot. Also, compare the cost of a highend digital camera setup (~$5,000CAD for top end Canon or Nikon bodies only or ~$14,000CAD for Fuji GSX100 body only) with a used (or even new Intrepid) camera and recently, the most expensive large format lens I've heard about was ~$1,700USD so with only a couple of lenses and a 4x5 body, it is easy to stay below the cost of a professional DSLR body alone, without any lenses. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed your video, I just wonder why the "film photography is expensive" theme is carried. How many people can say that they'll still be using their Nikon D850 in 25yrs, would it even last that long, but there are plenty of excellent large format cameras and lenses that have been used by a photographer much longer than that.
I see where you are coming from in terms of the longevity of the large format equipment, however, we are a photography school and most of our audience are enthusiasts looking to improve, and others looking to become professionals. The theme of 'film is expensive' is carried because I would never suggest that a member of our 'learning' community invest in large format because shooting digital would be a more-efficient path to learning photography. If we average a sheet of color negative 4x5 to $4 - and we compare that to the average shutter life of a Nikon D850 - you'd spend $800,000 in film whereas you can shoot 200k digital images on the digital system, which will get someone from Point A to Point B in learning photography much faster and for far less money. Of course, once someone has learned photography, that makes shooting film that much more reasonable because the chances will improve that your image is worthy of being developed/scanned. Certainly, paid professional situations are primarily digital due to collaboration-via-screen and the pipeline of images from camera to output being streamlined by removing Polaroids>developing>scanning>print - to tether>process>retouch>print/web. Perhaps I can set up a professional situation and see what it's like to shoot it on 4x5 with an impatient client hovering over me - versus if I shoot the same shot and tether to Capture One Pro, that might have been a more useful comparison. But for someone wanting to just shoot for fun here and there without an art director wanting to see things immediately, film is fine, and fun!
I just bought an 8x10 view camera that is in pristine condition that is 120 years old. The lens is 95 years old. I'm looking foward to making some images with it. It amazes me that this beautiful device was made just before the Wright brothers first flight, and it still works.
I think your scans didn't match the quality of the actual photos. Scanning feels to be really important nowadays, as we will see the photographs in screens.
Nice video, I have been shooting 5x4 since 1983. He says push/pulling changes contrast, it has a very very slight effect on this but pushing/pulling is designed to alter density/exposure. An the bellows exposure correction he adjusts the shutter exposure from 1/15th to 1/30th. This a stop darker! Bellows extension compensation is based on the inverse square law of physics and the exposure needs to be brighter. i.e. 1/8th plus. He aslo measures the bellows from lens to the corner of the film standard, ideally the measurement should follow the lens axis and be perpendicular to the film plane. Typical formula for bellows comp is if the bellows are twice the focal length then that is a 2 stop more exposure correction.
Thank you Richard!
Great video!
Thank you for explaining how large format works!
You’re welcome!
People need to think of digital and film as simply different mediums. Just as there is Charcoal, water colors, oil, and acrilycs, film and digital are more mediums allowing you more choices to capture your image.
no. they cannot be seen as different mediums, because they are NOT different mediums. they are nothing like the comparisions that you listed. its fine if you want to pretend for yourself, but for the rest of us, we will continue on with things as they are. They are the SAME medium that just uses different tools. so if we go off your list of art comparisions, they would be more akin to different brushes that you would use, instead of totally different mediums.
Orion, you seem quite upset by this. That’s too bad. You might care to read this. www.thoughtco.com/medium-definition-in-art-182447
Large format cameras are the only advantage film has over digital imo. This is nothing to do with film per se just the movements available. There are large sensor, high megapixel technical cameras though but they cost a bucketload. You can make any look you want now with film and even create digital negatives and print in the darkroom, print on fine art papers etc.
large format is completely in a different league to digital. The size of the negative produces a far greater resolution than any digital camera. I own a digital camera, a 6x7 and 4x5 and my MF pisses over digital never mind my 4x5. Film cameras are precision tools and are more accurate and more fun to use. You have to be far more skilled to use film. While you crappy digital users are stood taking 100 shots of the same thing I'll take 2 exposures and move on. Film is a very deliberate process. Non of this shoot and hope business. The learning process is longer and deeper in film. Digital photography is a pile of crap and looks awful aesthetically. Compare the very best of what we have now to the very best of the film shooter generation and enough said. Film shooters were harder working and more talented and their work even today is far superior to the rubbish being churned out today on digital.
@@orion7741 The skill set and knowledge base for film and digital from start to finish is quite different. Composition is pretty much the same, but techniques for processing, interpretation, and printing go down radically different paths. If you know one, you can't automatically do the other. It all fits under the umbrella of photography, but that's a damn big umbrella, particularly when you consider alternative processes.
I've been thinking about getting into film. It looks so beautiful and fun! Thanks for the video.
Id recommend beginning with smaller formats since large format is quite expensive
Go for it! But yes, make sure you are comfortable with photography in general first, as it's expensive to make exposure mistakes on film.
I have a gadget that has a square you put in the scene and a measuring device you measure the square at the ground glass to determine bellows factor. Not for all subjects but easy to use. I think it was sold by Calumet in the old days.
My God this was useful. Like a 4x5 workshop for free on RUclips, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
one tip, with Leaf-shuttered lenses for medium and large format (bronica/mamiya & Hasselblad V series); DE-COCK them for storage (long term) as the springs for the shutter can 'set' in the cocked position (lose their elasticity); so wear out sooner, and for these THEY are rare units, esp. LF shutters, so treat them gently, this is to preserve what we have, and keep using them for as long as we can.
Great tip! Thank you.
Having shot 4x5 for a yrs, this was kinda cool to watch. I know about how costly Velvia is lol and I rarely used it, the camera I shot with was a monorail camera. I generally shot black and white only, with the exceptions of slide from time to time. I learned never to really get the sky into the picture, but generally plants and waterfalls around Mt Rainier with light coming down on it like rain. I couldn't afford a spot meter, so got a Polaris incident for about 60$ used. When I couldn't get what I wanted in the distance metered, I looked at the area around and metered off of it. Granted this is not as accurate I know, but it did work at the time. I never measure in inches, but in metrics (not something I ever thought about doing). Granted all this was Long before Covid was around, and there were no restrictions on travel or being other people. Hope you post more on the 4x5, as it's truly inspiring. I shoot a med format 6x8 camera has the capability to adjust the front element. So in some ways, it's like a large format.
Sounds like you use the Fuji 680? If so, it's a great camera. Jeff has one of those as well and enjoys using it.
@@forestchaput that's correct, however it's a bit clunky and heavy to carry on regular basis. I saw a few Fuji cameras and loved that most of them were interchangeable with the XF lenses.
I had thought about the GX680 series with tilt shift, it is a nice size negative, with nice features. I went to 4x5 and got a 6x9 roll film back when I want to shoot 6x9. The cost to shoot 4x5 in color is not cheap, so I look for deals on film which is rare.
A great way to start the year😎
Heck yes!
I like your philosophical approach to using film, and the 4x5 format. I recently purchased a 4x5 Graflex press camera. I decided that I needed to create a darkroom in my home to be able to load the film, but also to be able to develop the film, and then print the film using an enlarger. to print an 8x10 from a 4x5 negative is only a 2x enlargement so the resolution should be good. I will likely also scan the film, both for the ability to archive the image, and to allow using digital image control to tweak the image to print digitally also.
Glad you enjoyed it! You only need total darkness for the loading/unloading of the film - you can use a small folding film changing pop-up tent for this. We have a video coming soon about developing at home and you'll see the tent in action there. For sure a darkroom for printing will be needed - and if you shoot any 120, check out Intrepid Camera's newest enlarger that they have on Kickstarter at the time of this message. I 'scan' my image with a Canon 5DSR mounted on a copy stand, and I use the Skier light from Negative Supply for the light source, and if i determine that the shot is good enough for an archival print, I'll send the image out for a drum scan.
Hello, I was wondering if there is a link to the conversion chart you used around 10:25?
I recently acquired an Omega View 45D that belonged to my father.
Which is why I found your video quite enlightening.
But my first question is:
What exactly are those X-Wing and Millennium Falcon images behind you?
Haha, just a few art pieces from Target.
Down with digital...
Long live film
Digital has its place, film has its place. The real key is to make the best images possible in whatever medium you choose.
@@archywiseman The best things are analog.
Glad I found this video. Wish this channel was more on this and not a review channel.
Glad that you enjoyed!
❤❤
Thanks!
Awesome vid guys! Keep it up!
Thanks!
Big shame that Fuji is stopping production on velvia sheet films.
You can also use an app for bellows factor, much easier than using sheets with math.
For beginners I would also recommend you mention why you metered the way you did on the mountain photograph, being slide film vs black and white etc.
It is a shame. Thanks for the suggestion!
Great work. Who makes that camera?
Intrepid is a great brand! Link in the description.
Hmm, why doesn't the film get exposed prematurely when you alter the lens aperture from wide open (to focus) and then back down to your chosen aperture after you've removed the dark slide..? 🤔 Thanks.
After composing you manually close the lens. Make your settings. Then insert the film, pull the dark slide and trigger the exposure.
Whats the meaning of B AND T On shutter speed ?
Bulb and Time. Bulb will keep the shutter open as long as you are holding it down, Time will open the shutter when you push the shutter button, then close it when you press it again.
Excellent video, incredibly helpful. I have recently, very recently, invested in an Intrepid and am taking my first images..... This is not a criticism as I really like your final result that you showed at 15:40 into the video - but, it seems a little under-exposed compared to the scene you were showing when you talked through the metering process. Is this the case or is this what you were seeking to get form the image?
For sure the film was a bit darker than what my camera person was seeing via a video camera - and my spot-metering was specifically aimed at the medium grey of the mountain tops and I checked that tone against the green forest, sections of blue sky as well as the darker foreground to determine my dynamic range. I shot a bracket of 4 shots of the scene and I preferred this one best. Velvia 100 has a bit of a magenta cast to it compared to Velvia 50, so I had to dial some of that out after the scan. This was what I was going for and I was being careful to not blow my highlights - but without a Polaroid, I'm making the best calculation I can and then enjoying the surprise after the develop!
@@forestchaput Hi, many thanks for the reply, it's also really helpful. As I said, I really liked your final image!
I read that someone had assessed the increase in the cost of film relative to inflation and it turned out that over 40 years (1980s to 2020s), the relative cost of film is lower. The other issue I have with your assessment is that you were comparing a paid professional situation in your past (fashion shooting) vs unpaid "artist" situation now. It would have been easier to justify the cost in a paid shoot than an unpaid (but hoping someone will buy) shoot. Also, compare the cost of a highend digital camera setup (~$5,000CAD for top end Canon or Nikon bodies only or ~$14,000CAD for Fuji GSX100 body only) with a used (or even new Intrepid) camera and recently, the most expensive large format lens I've heard about was ~$1,700USD so with only a couple of lenses and a 4x5 body, it is easy to stay below the cost of a professional DSLR body alone, without any lenses.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed your video, I just wonder why the "film photography is expensive" theme is carried. How many people can say that they'll still be using their Nikon D850 in 25yrs, would it even last that long, but there are plenty of excellent large format cameras and lenses that have been used by a photographer much longer than that.
I see where you are coming from in terms of the longevity of the large format equipment, however, we are a photography school and most of our audience are enthusiasts looking to improve, and others looking to become professionals. The theme of 'film is expensive' is carried because I would never suggest that a member of our 'learning' community invest in large format because shooting digital would be a more-efficient path to learning photography. If we average a sheet of color negative 4x5 to $4 - and we compare that to the average shutter life of a Nikon D850 - you'd spend $800,000 in film whereas you can shoot 200k digital images on the digital system, which will get someone from Point A to Point B in learning photography much faster and for far less money. Of course, once someone has learned photography, that makes shooting film that much more reasonable because the chances will improve that your image is worthy of being developed/scanned. Certainly, paid professional situations are primarily digital due to collaboration-via-screen and the pipeline of images from camera to output being streamlined by removing Polaroids>developing>scanning>print - to tether>process>retouch>print/web. Perhaps I can set up a professional situation and see what it's like to shoot it on 4x5 with an impatient client hovering over me - versus if I shoot the same shot and tether to Capture One Pro, that might have been a more useful comparison. But for someone wanting to just shoot for fun here and there without an art director wanting to see things immediately, film is fine, and fun!
I just bought an 8x10 view camera that is in pristine condition that is 120 years old. The lens is 95 years old. I'm looking foward to making some images with it. It amazes me that this beautiful device was made just before the Wright brothers first flight, and it still works.
I can’t speak to the D850, but my D700 is 13 years old and keeps plugging along. I’m nowhere near it’s rated max shutter life, but that’s replaced
I have the same camera. It's a heavy beast but it's built like it can withstand a nuclear blast.
I think your scans didn't match the quality of the actual photos. Scanning feels to be really important nowadays, as we will see the photographs in screens.
Scanning is such an important part of this process and there are so many ways to do it. The video also doesn't fully capture the quality of the scans.
4.5 months??? Jeeez....