I remember so clearly I bought the original DKR trade paperback in a classic Vermont bookstore, a little later I bought Year One. They were the only comics in the bookstore, and they blew my little head wide open, changed my whole summer.
Awesome video Ed and Jim. Frank Miller, Bill Sienkiewicz and David Mazzuchelli were true visionaries at that time. I don't know if most modern readers fully understand this when reading those books today but there was no precedent to the experimentation and extremes they were taking the medium in the 1980s. All of those stories are epic and you get a sense they were ahead of their time in storytelling and art. I'd love to see the detective story in APA-6 as well.
31:00 I think he's referring to the Mutant Leader as he never fired a gun or had a signature costume like most of the classic Rogues but did indeed inflict a massive amount of damage on Batman, nearly killing him.
100 percent, and was shocked the both had a simultaneous brain fart to miss that, but maybe because he looks like a character they missed the thing miller was saying that he wasn't in a super villain costume, as that was just the garb of a Gotham gang banger
It’s amazing to see in those early sketches, Miller transforming from drawing Batman in an Aparo/Adams type of way on to what becomes the iconic Dark Knight look.
...and in '89 we get Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum with Dave McKean. I wonder how much Love and War influenced DC's editorial at the time getting McKean on to a book like that...does anyone know how the two were paired for AA? (I know from interviews that it's not the way Morrison originally envisioned the book)
What was Sienkiewicz doing during this period? Was asked re:discussion of financial vulnerability. Sienkiewicz did a “monster manual” for Bard games. Called the Bestiary. You wouldn’t know from the cover he did the inside. You open it up and the most amazing monster manual for role playing games ever. He’d do the pages while on the train to the city for like $25 a shot. Amazing stuff. Especially if you’re a comics fan and like dungeons and dragons.
Dark Knight Returns led to the Killing Joke being elevated to prestige format. The next Batman prestige series after that was The Cult drawn by Bernie Wrightson.
When I was in the army stationed at Ft Bliss,Tx ( in EL Paso,Tx ) came upon a small comic shop that had most of the back issues of Amazing Heroes,Comic Scene and Comics Interviews,boxed,boarded and in mint condition. I was in comics heaven-LOL. The owner charged $ 2.00 each issue.Then there was another comic shop that had the entire run of Perez's run on Teen Titans for $ 1.00 each and Byrne's run of X-Men ( about half tho ) also for $ 1.00 each title. EL Paso had so many comic shops I couldn't visit them all. LOL. Bought a lot of these issues there tho.Never,ever told any one I bought comics tho,I mean in the army,a BIG no-no tho. People in the army despise comicbooks,think they're for geeks,kids and nerds,no one will take you serious. The women in the army won't even talk/date you if known you read/buy comicbooks,that's just how it is.
Interesting the amount of Writers/Artists out there grinding out top quality b+w stuff... Miller, Chaykin, The Hernandez bros, Eddie Campbell, Dean Motter, Moebius, Ted McKeever, Kyle Baker, Bryan Talbot, Dave Sim...
You boys are the greatest. I loved comics but growing up in Australia back in the day it was slim pickings. I would cut strips out of the newspaper and glue them into a scrap book to collect some Bob Kane Batman as a ten year old. Thanks to all these episodes I’ve now got a growing collection (I picked up Love and War as a complete set of floppies recently, something I will always treasure) and an ever growing appreciation for the history of the form. Thank you! 🙏
I bought this issue new. It was tremendously exciting to see the sneak peeks. I recall the anticipation of ‘what’s next?’ for Frank Miller. He did those four covers for the limited series, Superman: The Secret Years and the segment in Heroes for Hope in ‘85 and it was thrilling to see his new set style. Though I’m still listening, Great episode, guys. Thanks!!
I always wondered where FM got his idea for the tv screens for his world building (he uses it in Robocop too). My geuss is that he was influenced by the original Westworld movie.
Great stuff as always, I wasn't aware that FM went through a drink+drugs phase, I've just read an old interview and he's very cagey about his substance abuse, In this article he also briefly discusses 'Holy Terror', I wasn't even aware of this book! would you consider covering it or is it too controversial?
Yeah he did some great stuff for Batman those are great stories but Marshall Rogers and Steve engelhardt and Denny O'Neill and Neil Adams the 1970s and early '80s Batman is Batman at his peak where he's supposed to be That's my Batman right there The pre-crisis bronze age Batman is absolutely at his peak He's dark and scary Read night of the stalker detective 439 written in 1974 and you tell me that's not dark and gritty and hardcore Batman you can't get them more hardcore version of Batman than that maybe the greatest individual issue ever written of Batman it's the definitive version of him
@@BruceWayne-ri4wr Frank Miller erroneously gets credited for making Batman "dark again" while these people ignore the important bronze age Batman stories that modernized him. Like, how did Frank Miller redefine Batman off of an elseworld story and another that is loosely one later retconned into his origin? His stories were dark and serious over a decade prior. Same goes for people giving so much credit to The Long Halloween and not giving any to the Batman Annual it is based on, Eye of the Beholder, which gives the definitive Two-Face origin story
Love those B+W sketchbook Batmans. He's a bitter, disillusioned, middle aged man but his fists look like they are made of cement. Be warned.. Another great vid, you two. Putting things like this in context always makes for better reportage.
Guys love the show……. But as someone who grew up in a comic shop. DKR was big for sure but it seemed to be pushed aside by Watchmen. As far as the bookstore section at least in my area Watchmen broken glass collected and Maus were there way before DKR. Those popped up about the same time as the Sandman collected again in my area.
I think he is saying she’s white because he knows there will be fan outrage over him making her female, but he is saying that at least kept her white for all the traditionalists
It's funny how that reads differently today. Miller saying "she's white" would be considered inflammatory and controversial. Back then, he was trying to mitigate the shock of his version of Robin.
I remember so clearly I bought the original DKR trade paperback in a classic Vermont bookstore, a little later I bought Year One. They were the only comics in the bookstore, and they blew my little head wide open, changed my whole summer.
Awesome video Ed and Jim. Frank Miller, Bill Sienkiewicz and David Mazzuchelli were true visionaries at that time. I don't know if most modern readers fully understand this when reading those books today but there was no precedent to the experimentation and extremes they were taking the medium in the 1980s. All of those stories are epic and you get a sense they were ahead of their time in storytelling and art. I'd love to see the detective story in APA-6 as well.
It's groundbreaking and never been repeated. Even the Matrix work falls shy I think
31:00 I think he's referring to the Mutant Leader as he never fired a gun or had a signature costume like most of the classic Rogues but did indeed inflict a massive amount of damage on Batman, nearly killing him.
100 percent, and was shocked the both had a simultaneous brain fart to miss that, but maybe because he looks like a character they missed the thing miller was saying that he wasn't in a super villain costume, as that was just the garb of a Gotham gang banger
He was an animal. timelines considered...Batman's first experience with something like that would have been Bane.
@leviz8137 Bane was no animal. Brutal. Yes. But in many ways, Batman's equal. At the time of his first arrival anyway.
I need to start watching on my tablet so I can see the pages better
It’s amazing to see in those early sketches, Miller transforming from drawing Batman in an Aparo/Adams type of way on to what becomes the iconic Dark Knight look.
The Batman drawing that you call out on page 34 to the right, was on the cover for issue three of the danish version of Dark Knight.
we appreciate this channel
...and in '89 we get Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum with Dave McKean. I wonder how much Love and War influenced DC's editorial at the time getting McKean on to a book like that...does anyone know how the two were paired for AA? (I know from interviews that it's not the way Morrison originally envisioned the book)
42:00 He also predicts Brian Michael Bendis in this opening shot here.
He was my favorite artist and writer in the ‘80s.
What was Sienkiewicz doing during this period? Was asked re:discussion of financial vulnerability.
Sienkiewicz did a “monster manual” for Bard games. Called the Bestiary. You wouldn’t know from the cover he did the inside. You open it up and the most amazing monster manual for role playing games ever. He’d do the pages while on the train to the city for like $25 a shot. Amazing stuff. Especially if you’re a comics fan and like dungeons and dragons.
i didnt know that existed...now I want one. holy shit
Elektra Assassin..if you don't have it...get it.
Dark Knight Returns led to the Killing Joke being elevated to prestige format. The next Batman prestige series after that was The Cult drawn by Bernie Wrightson.
Batman killing the Joker in the series is something that i think can never be duplicated. It was shocking to my 15yo brain.
Could the red left hand be a color error... and be Batman's left hand? I think so.
Love old frank miller
Old Miller? or old old Miller?
I loved Amazing Heroes! I’m not sure why, but news and reviews about comics was so cool!
When I was in the army stationed at Ft Bliss,Tx ( in EL Paso,Tx ) came upon a small comic shop that had most of the back issues of Amazing Heroes,Comic Scene and Comics Interviews,boxed,boarded and in mint condition. I was in comics heaven-LOL. The owner charged $ 2.00 each issue.Then there was another comic shop that had the entire run of Perez's run on Teen Titans for $ 1.00 each and Byrne's run of X-Men ( about half tho ) also for $ 1.00 each title. EL Paso had so many comic shops I couldn't visit them all. LOL. Bought a lot of these issues there tho.Never,ever told any one I bought comics tho,I mean in the army,a BIG no-no tho. People in the army despise comicbooks,think they're for geeks,kids and nerds,no one will take you serious. The women in the army won't even talk/date you if known you read/buy comicbooks,that's just how it is.
best education channel on youtube .
Comics were super dope in that time period!❤
Interesting the amount of Writers/Artists out there grinding out top quality b+w stuff... Miller, Chaykin, The Hernandez bros, Eddie Campbell, Dean Motter, Moebius, Ted McKeever, Kyle Baker, Bryan Talbot, Dave Sim...
Miller and Sienkiewicz showed kids something...it is and was profound. i was 13-15 during this time. it is still burned in my brain
lol shoot interview confirmed? Ed says that will be an amazing conversation to have with him
I think you guys should review the Punisher mini-series from this time....art and style was awesome. 1985
Dude Miller HAD to have been on some crazy drugs during this time cause the output is fucking nuts
i remember Maus...i cant recall the details
Dudes!...1986 Dark Knight frenzy was real. We were hot on Miller's Daredevil and Sienkiewicz Elektra work.
Does anyone know what Jack Kirby thought about this time in comic evolution?
Elektra Assassin art.....it was ...earth shattering
I remember 1986 well. All the adults who read these comics were 13 like me.
You boys are the greatest. I loved comics but growing up in Australia back in the day it was slim pickings. I would cut strips out of the newspaper and glue them into a scrap book to collect some Bob Kane Batman as a ten year old. Thanks to all these episodes I’ve now got a growing collection (I picked up Love and War as a complete set of floppies recently, something I will always treasure) and an ever growing appreciation for the history of the form. Thank you! 🙏
I bought this issue new. It was tremendously exciting to see the sneak peeks. I recall the anticipation of ‘what’s next?’ for Frank Miller. He did those four covers for the limited series, Superman: The Secret Years and the segment in Heroes for Hope in ‘85 and it was thrilling to see his new set style. Though I’m still listening, Great episode, guys. Thanks!!
I always wondered where FM got his idea for the tv screens for his world building (he uses it in Robocop too). My geuss is that he was influenced by the original Westworld movie.
The art in Ronin is unbelievably awesome. Off the chain insane.
I love DARK KNIGHT, BORN AGAIN, etc, but RONIN is the unsung masterpiece. There's just nothing else like it.
Totally agreed
Great stuff as always, I wasn't aware that FM went through a drink+drugs phase, I've just read an old interview and he's very cagey about his substance abuse, In this article he also briefly discusses 'Holy Terror', I wasn't even aware of this book! would you consider covering it or is it too controversial?
I don’t care what anyone says, Frank Miller redefined Batman into a far more interesting and respectable character.
Yeah he did some great stuff for Batman those are great stories but Marshall Rogers and Steve engelhardt and Denny O'Neill and Neil Adams the 1970s and early '80s Batman is Batman at his peak where he's supposed to be That's my Batman right there The pre-crisis bronze age Batman is absolutely at his peak He's dark and scary Read night of the stalker detective 439 written in 1974 and you tell me that's not dark and gritty and hardcore Batman you can't get them more hardcore version of Batman than that maybe the greatest individual issue ever written of Batman it's the definitive version of him
@@BruceWayne-ri4wr Frank Miller erroneously gets credited for making Batman "dark again" while these people ignore the important bronze age Batman stories that modernized him. Like, how did Frank Miller redefine Batman off of an elseworld story and another that is loosely one later retconned into his origin? His stories were dark and serious over a decade prior.
Same goes for people giving so much credit to The Long Halloween and not giving any to the Batman Annual it is based on, Eye of the Beholder, which gives the definitive Two-Face origin story
Miller's 1986 Gotham...2026 Gotham...damn
Miller is the GOAT.
There is a way to read this online?
I think the top villain in DKR at this point was the mutant leader
Love those B+W sketchbook Batmans. He's a bitter, disillusioned, middle aged man but his fists look like they are made of cement. Be warned..
Another great vid, you two. Putting things like this in context always makes for better reportage.
Guys love the show……. But as someone who grew up in a comic shop. DKR was big for sure but it seemed to be pushed aside by Watchmen. As far as the bookstore section at least in my area Watchmen broken glass collected and Maus were there way before DKR. Those popped up about the same time as the Sandman collected again in my area.
cool episode.
To me his dead line style comes from Japanese drawing and prints. It’s just the most similar in my opinion
dream team...Miller, Wagner, Sienkiewicz...there's more for sure.
good show
Frank Miller could never draw a female face. That was his kryptonite.
No idea what you're talking about. Ever read Sin City plenty of female faces.
Frank Miller IS Batman
I think he is saying she’s white because he knows there will be fan outrage over him making her female, but he is saying that at least kept her white for all the traditionalists
You’re probably right, because I can easily see Miller, if he had the choice, making her Asian like little Miho.
It's funny how that reads differently today. Miller saying "she's white" would be considered inflammatory and controversial. Back then, he was trying to mitigate the shock of his version of Robin.
Miller = God