Another cool video! Thank you for sharing. I learned to eFoil with the staggered stance. I'm also learning how to wing foil and wingers use a staggered stance generally as well. Last December I suffered my worst eFoil injury to date due to a trigger failure (aka loss of bluetooth between board and controller). For me those are the worst wipe outs and usually end up with a big time face plant. Usually you also end up being thrown directly in front of the board and that time was no different for me. I've naturally learned to shield my face with my arms and it was a good thing as the board launched out of the air when I came off and would have nailed me right in the face. Instead, it hit my left arm and I ended up with a completely fractured ulna. My wetsuit top may have prevented a full compound fracture. I also got a major hematoma on my left hip which actually at the time hurt more than the arm. It was close to three months before I gopt back on the board again. BTW: I also ride the 4'2" Pro board with the 160 Camber Pro with the 32 Glide tail. Have you tried the 32 and if so why do you like the 36 more? I have the 36 Glide in my quiver but have not tried with the 160 Camber Pro. I'm now thinking about trying the new Havoc 121 wing. Thanks for putting out your videos on eFoiling.
Bummer about the crash. Yes, I ordered a 32 Glide and was really surprised that is didn't match the same, "Glide Profile" I'm used to with my 36 Glide with upturned wingtips. The 32 Glide they shipped me matches the same profile as my Surf stabs. I think the reason they dropped the price on the 24 & 32 Glide is because they either had a misprint or just poor brand planning. I wrote Lift about this and got the most non-answer possible from their marketing agency. I wrote them two more times and got no response, so I'm pretty much left with, they are dumping a misprinted/mis-manufactured product without actually telling their customers about it. I MUCH prefer the curved wing tips on my 36 Glide. Way smoother! Is your 32 Glide flat or does it have upturned wingtips?
@@VerdantRide My 32 Glide is flat just like the surf tails. I figured that was the reason they were being discontinued as well. If you're ever down in the Jupiter Fl area hit me up. I'll show you some cool spots to eFoil!
@@snowindirt Sounds great! I'm actually currently looking for pals especially in the warmer states where I can hook up for some rides this winter. So thanks for the invitation. The Glide series confusion seems super strange to me and when I started investigating and the response I got from Lift's agency that answered my inquiry made it even stranger. It lead me to a whole show about this and some other issues I found lacked the transparency I wished I'd discovered.
Very creative dude. I take it that your video skills are skills that you use in your professional life. Really nice work and a ton of work at that. As for the stance I completely agree. Self taught with some RUclips help and in the beginning 6 - 10 hours I tried a bunch of things and when I had a centerline stance the board would roll quickly underneath you and you would just come straight down it. Just lucky didn't hit the wing hard. Lucky. I banged myself up so much that I ended up wearing shin guards for my forearms and padded mesh shorts for snow boarding over my swim suit. I got better and so that's gone. I still don't go much beyond half power, but I am trying your carving tricks to speed up my S-turns so thanks. Your video on the Kaper Call won't work for a GetFoil board as there is a safety limit built into the remote's connection to the board. It will cut out if you are like 10' or so away from the board. Too bad. I could see that as a cool way to get back to the board quickly. Thanks for the videos!
Yeah, I've got some film-making skills in my past but shooting stuff like this is more just holding a pole where the camera should be. Anyone can do it with the Insta 360 cams and any decent video editing package. My professional life is spent more in strategic execution than in content creation but once amass these skills you never really lose them. AI is getting much better so it is possible to tell a decent story with just a few hours of work that would have taken a week just a few years ago. GetFoil closed this year right? Are you pretty confident you'll be able to perform your own repairs and keep your board rolling for the foreseeable future? Can you put other wings on it?
Yep, GetFoil folded. I haven't tried other boards so I can't really rank them. GetFoil was the only US company and it seems to be a good product. They just never had the market base anywhere near what was needed to keep the company afloat. Pretty bummed. No more support, no replacement parts from them. Some of their parts suppliers (China) has popped up and started selling those left over inventories like wings. There is a FB community group that is a self help group. I've used their help to solve some water intrusion issues with my remote. Other aspects are addressed there as well. I believe though that I will probably be getting a new Efoil in time. I was looking at a free spinning prop or a jet drive on a Flightboard. Maybe a Air Pro. I now have two season on a board. I'm not that good at it, but I'm getting there.
Mr. Ride, Awesome video as usual. BTW you were right about my controller. Water breached it and it was sending erroneous signals to my eBox causing it to start the motor involuntarily. Lift has taken care of me and sent a new controller. Also, I tried out my 160 Camber Pro (thanks to recommendations in your videos) and it is awesome!! I'm running the 33 carve tail wing with fuselage extender. Looking forward to more instruction. Thanks,
I just tested the 32 Glide. You'll get the show on Sunday. It's actually just a Surf. No curved wingtips like the 36 Glide. I had to do a bunch of investigation to figure that out.
I just ordered the 33 carve tail wing. Why did you get the fuselage extender? I've got a 200 surf v2 in the front. I'm a little worried about teaching others on the 33.
Last summer I was using collapsible prop on Lift 3. Board slipped out from me when going through boat waves and SLASHED my shin deep. Had to e foil back to beach then drive to hospital. 8 stitches. Lucky it wasn’t my neck or I wouldn’t be writing this. I’ve used lift jet ever since.
I've got this rule that I won't got to the ER on weekends in the summer so I keep an Insorb subcutaneous absorbable skin stapler around for just such an occasion. I've never needed it for eFoil related issues but it has saved me from spending a whole day waiting around in an ER a couple of times now.
Got a question for you about the folding prop… I'm considering a show comparing the safety of a gliding prop vs a breaking prop. Would you say that a gliding prop (like the folding, free spinning etc. props made for unpowered wave riding) is more likely to hit their riders especially when falling off the front of the board? I ask because whenever I get flung off the front of the board like during an unexpected powerloss event, my board stops DEAD in the water and usually dives it's nose causing it to stop so fast that is like SUPER BREAKS. So I never get hit by my own board.
I always ride with a staggered stance-definitely safer-and strongly recommend wearing a helmet. I bought a board this summer and have logged 15-20 hours on it. While cruising at 17 mph and carving, I accidentally breached and somehow ended up in front of the board. I instinctively covered my face when I fell, but as soon as I surfaced and thought I was safe, I moved my arms-WHACK-the board's nose hit me right in the forehead. The impact was so severe I thought my skull had caved in. I ended up riding on my belly for about 2 miles to get home, praying I wouldn’t pass out and drown. In hindsight, heading to shore and calling 911 might have been smarter. At the ER, they initially thought they could see my skull, and everyone rushed into action. Thankfully, it wasn’t quite as serious, and I walked out with a dozen stitches on my forehead and some bruises. I could just as easily have been knocked out and drowned. While I wouldn’t call myself an expert, I could routinely ride for 45-60 minutes without falling. I’d like to think this was a fluke, but I’m uncertain if I’ll continue with the sport. If I do, I’ll be wearing a helmet every single time. Here are a few things I think I did wrong, for others to learn from: - I wasn’t wearing a helmet because I thought I was skilled enough to avoid this type of injury. Always wear a helmet-it could save your life. - I was wearing a competition vest, not a Coast Guard-approved life jacket. If I had passed out, I’m not sure it would have kept me safe. - I usually ride around 16 mph but was testing out higher speeds and was going 17 mph. While it seems like a small difference, I probably should have adjusted my stance slightly forward. - If you accidentally breach, immediately let go of the trigger and bail. Don’t try to save it. - Keep your arms over your face longer than you think is necessary. That extra second could have prevented a direct hit to the head, reducing the risk of getting knocked out and drowning. Sure, I might have broken some bones in my forearms, but that’s better than a brain injury. Also, as you mentioned in the video, when I told the doctors it was an eFoil accident, no one knew what that was. After being asked what an eFoil is a dozen times, I just started saying “watersports.” I understand now why you had trouble finding “eFoil” in any reports. When I was leaving, a few people were watching eFoil videos and told me they “learned a new sport today,” so they’ll know next time. Thanks for providing this video to help others learn how to stay as safe as possible. Feel free to share my story and advocate for everyone to wear helmets, no matter how skilled they think they are.
@@VerdantRide ROFL, good point, I am an organ donor too but am hoarding my organs from those terminal kids. Maybe they should ask their parents, they are not my responsibility. I'm sure a bunch of kids out there were rooting against me. I heard someone say recently that you should not try to eject until your board hits the water so you are not jumping off while the board is foiling which I had not heard before. Is that something you would recommend? Basically they said to reduce speed and once the board hits the water then bail. I'm not too confident in this situation if that would have worked but curious to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing the story. Sorry you had such a disaster on the water. Sounds like it sucked. You've got a lot we can learn from your story. I've been playing around with stances since I posted this show. Midline is easier in the sense that you get great control over carves with tiny movement in ankles BUT it is significantly riskier when things go wrong. I went from never having close calls or ever landing on the same side as the foil to several times when I found myself unable to choose my ejection trajectory and coming down way too close to the stabby parts. I also noticed that I was getting just less feedback from the board when riding midline. It is just harder to feel those moments when the board is starting to misbehave and had a bunch of those falls where the board in an unrecoverable state before I noticed anything going wrong. Stuff I agree with: 1. If not dying is important to you, helmets and a PFD that will keep you upright when unconscious is the only thing you should consider. All other floatation methods are about recovering your body easily, not saving your life. 2. If you feel the board doing something strange, it is always better to eject early and get as far away from the board than to negotiate with the board. I think this is how I've ridden so fast and so hard without even a single close call in 4 years. Eject early if anything feels unexpected to you. You can always Kaper Call your board back to you and keep going and there's no shame in falling. I opt to eject at least once on at least half of my rides. Sometimes, when trying something new or deflowering a new wingset, I eject several times. The key thing to keep in mind is that I "eject" a lot, but I "fall" rarely. The difference is an "eject" is controlled and something I chose to do. Most of my "falls" are due to unexpected stuff like when I get a power loss and get flung off the board. 3. Keep covered until you hear everything go calm, and then count to 10 (or 25 if your internal clock speed is as fast as mine). Then slowly take a peek though around while still remaining covered and tread water doing a 360 before going all clear. Stuff I disagree with: 1. I don't think that your speed was the problem so much as the way you dealt with the unexpected breach. Higher speeds aren't inherently more dangerous than slower speeds. I've seen many close calls from riders riding too slow more than I have riders riding at high speeds. That wing can hurt you by falling on it at any speed. Each maneuver needs the appropriate speed to pull off successfully. When I'm in a course my speed variation is surprisingly varied. I often come into a pylon in the low 30s (mph) and by the end of the turn drop down to 14 mph. That's over a 50% loss to inertia Then I increase my speed back up within a matter of seconds. This is much more variation in speed than any other type of slalom racing I've ever done. I think learning to feather the throttle was the hardest thing to master on the efoil because you must create significant muscle memory between what your finger is doing on the throttle, and then feel all the changes that is making to the board and adjust your knees, hips, ankles, spine, neck, shoulders and even where your arms so that they all align with the changes to the speed. Is like mastering everything necessary to racing a snowboard while also winning a slot car race. 2. I don't recommend helmets but do recommend being an organ donor. If you love helmet laws you do so exposing your hatred of children dying from kidney failure. This causes me to ask, why do you hate terminally ill children? What did they ever do to you? :P
@@VerdantRide Thanks man, I appreciate the info. The Fliteboard manual and guides all recommend the staggered stance so that is what I have always done too. What I am interested in hearing more about is the unexpected power loss falls as that is what still scares me as I don't feel I have any control over those types of falls. My recent injury I should have ejected earlier and hopefully would been in enough control to get in a better position. I live on a River which does not have the best water clarity so when I had my prop guard on I could basically hit a leaf underwater and come crashing down. Once I took my guard off this was very rare but a few times something clung to the mast and resulted in a power loss however much less severe and usually didn't result in a fall. I am hesitant to get back out there once I am healed up as the unexpected falls and power loss are what concern me the most as it happens so quick and unexpectedly its tough to fall correctly and usually end up front of the board. Luckily whenever this has happened in the past the board stops and I am flung far in front without incident. Do you have any tips for letting go of the trigger? I obviously always try to do this but in this case I'm assuming I didn't and that's why I got drilled. That's good to know about the speed, I'm just picturing the board smashing my head in at 30 versus 18 mph and that obviously seems more dangerous haha. In my experience when I'm going 12mph~ I always bail perfectly and the quicker you crash the harder it is to be prepared. Thanks again for the info, you have 100x more experience than I do so great to get a perspective from someone who has been doing this longer. I definitely want to get back out there once my stiches come out but want to avoid any other injuries, if it happens again it's not worth it (well except for the kids).
@@matthewharris9873 My ejection process isn't something I can likely accurately describe because I think I've moved all that processing over to my unconscious nervous system so it is now more of a reflex than a calculated maneuver at this point. I'm not going to think about it too much because it has kept me safe for probably 1000+ ejections by now and if it ain't broke, don't make it worse by trying to improve it. When I do choose to ride out a breach, my method is to react quickly but be carful to not over-react. I want you to visualize the scene where Indiana Jones where he trades the bag of sand for the Golden Skull. You gotta be ready for the inertia to change quickly but you want all your movements to be slight. If you panic and drop your speed too low, your entry will be terrible. If you react too slowly, a boulder will fall from the ceiling to crush you. So when I hear that prop spinning in the air, I allow my knees to bend so that even though the board is rising, I'm not. This lets me get closer to the board so I have the ability to adjust higher or lower when I renter, I relax my finger slightly. How much, I cannot say, but some for sure. I'd say that I put my body in position here I'm as close to a 50% ROM so that I can adjust everything on entry giving more or less to anything depending on what is needed. Predicting what the board will do is the hardest part and you kinda gotta be ready to anything the board needs from you. I'm not a fan of jumping efoils. I've yet to see anyone pull off something that looks cool and smooth consistently. When I was a wakeboarder, I commonly jumped wake to wake launching 8 feet high and landing on the down ramp so smoothly that I barely had to take any of the force in my knees. It looked rad and gave me so much time to pull off spins and rolls and flips that it made wakeboarding a sport was almost 100% about arial maneuvers when crossing the wake. eFoils just aren't (currently) able to do this kind of thing and won't be able to until the weight and friction approaches a foil board. So many riders send me clips of their jumps on an efoil and I watch them land looking like a wounded duck on their recovery that I'm just at a loss how they think this looks cool. Of course if I were a nice person I'd just tell them what they want to hear, but I'm an honest person so I don't. It's better to be an asshole with integrity than a nice liar (IMHO). Nice liars are how we get RayGun and Australia becomes the laughing stock at the Olympics. I also think that it should be noted that I only ride with fixed props, not folding/gliding props. I want my board to stop DEAD and not chase me around. I only ride a folding prop when I'm in the ocean and want to ride waves unpowered. Frankly, the unpowered experience isn't great because efoils are heavy and even the best folding/gliding props are crap when compared to a foil board without a prop/motor/battery that I'd say they aren't worth the cost and added danger of a board that is more likely to hunt you down after a fall. When I hear sellers trying to push a folding/gliding prop to flat-water riders, I'm just shaking my head. I shake my head a lot when I hear setups that just make no fucking sense. NOBODY SHOULD EVER BUY A 28" MAST EVER! The Lift4 Pro also provides me extra safety because when the prop stops spinning, it usually always hits with the nose at such a steep angle it is more likely to go under water than to keep chasing me should I have an unexpected powerless and I go flying forward. I've had MANY of those famous Lift mid-ride powerless crashes and while flying through the air would look back and see my board was already half underwater after crashing down at 90˚ stopping DEAD that I'd be willing to argue that the Lift Pro is in many ways the safest of all the boards they make. My Sport is much more likely to land with the nose at an angle where some forward momentum is possible. I'd expect that the added wight and length of even larger boards is even higher, making them more likely to come after you and hit you with more force than smaller and lighter boards.
@@VerdantRide My mast is the standard mast Fliteboard offers which is 29.5". I considered the 32" but they recommended that for ocean wave riding, you're right though, better to have that extra height and not use it and give some extra cushion to prevent unexpected breaches. With the fliteboard controller it has 30 speeds so I don't really use the trigger and just press the buttons to go slower or faster. Since there is no reason to feather the trigger to modulate speed its easier to unconsciously keep your grip on the controller when you fall which is an issue. I have ridden a lift foil before and the ergonomics of the controller are so different it doesn't really allow you to utilize it the same way as the Fliteboard controller. There are pros and cons to each but I'll definitely be trying to use it more like the lift controller in the future so my grip isn't locked. The other thing I like about the standard Fliteboard prop is it is plastic unlike the metal lift props. That way if it comes in contact with your leg or something it will break and cause less damage than the metal props. Agreed though, I originally planned on getting a folding prop to ride behind surf boats but the board is just too heavy, I would rather get into manual foiling eventually. I'm too obsessed with Wake surfing at the moment to take time off for foiling though...maybe next summer. Thanks again for the comments and info, definitely helping me mentally prepare to get back out there. Take care and appreciate all the hard work in the videos and education.
I ride hard, in waves, you don’t have control of board and yourself in the washing machine when you inevitably at some point will wipe out…. I’ve had two major hospital overnight stays with efoils. I told the doctors exactly what it was they seemed very interested but I doubt they remembered to log in as an efoil - likely categorized as surf or dinghy.
@@VerdantRide Fortunately none involved the wing or prop... still dreading the day that happens. Just a matter of time and opportunites. Both involved kissing the rail... its essentially a 60lb carbon fiber baseball bat if you either flip and then fall into or violent water (double overhead) force feeds the rail into your mouth ..... the end result is oral Maxillofacial Reconstructive Surgery and orthodontics. The blowfish came a little bit late im afraid got for each one of my boards wouldve never happened if utilized but probably wouldnt have sacrificed the performance without the lesson ;-)
I guess it's not possible for light wind wingfoiling because you have to pump. With front feet placed off the middle line you'll push in the wrong place. Not to mention pumpfoiling. But it's great for efoil and wingfoil on high wind days, when you don't have to pump to get out of the water.
Yeah… I think due to the weight and speed and likelihood of up-kick due to the location of the propulsion, I'm more likely to use a safer stance with efoiling than all my other board sports. Like I said in the video, I ride midline for everything else.
Do whatever you want. This is what I recommend for the reasons I recommended it. If you like riding midline, ride midline. Whatever benefits I might get from riding midline aren't as important to me as the ability to choose my departure course from the board and I've gotten quite competent at riding staggered so I'm going to keep riding staggered. Every once in a while I play around with midline and other modified stances and other than letting me use much smaller movements with my ankles and my knees to initiate a turn, I think that it doesn't offer anything as powerful as not getting injured. I don't really know what more you want me to say other than what I've already said. I guess I could provide kinesiology ROM on various stances if you'd like. Here, this is evidence that a staggered stance provides the greatest range of motion. These are what's considered a normal human range of motion as measured by goniometer. Your results may vary… I know mine do. :P Hip ROM (Degrees) Stance Flexion/Extension Abduction/Adduction Internal/External Rotation Midline 120/30 20/30 30/40 Staggered 130/30 30/40 40/60 Wide 120/30 45/50 30/40 Knee ROM (Degrees) Stance Flexion Extension Internal/External Rotation Midline 135 0 10/30 Staggered 135 5-10 10/40 Wide 140 0 10/30 Ankle ROM (Degrees) Stance Dorsiflexion/Plantarflexion Inversion/Eversion Midline 20/45 15/20 Staggered 25/45 20/25 Wide 25/45 20/25 Summary of Total ROM for Critical Movements We can sum the ROM for each critical movement based on each stance to provide a comparison: Midline Stance: Hip: (120 + 30) + (20 + 30) + (30 + 40) = 270 degrees Knee: 135 + 0 + (10 + 30) = 175 degrees Ankle: (20 + 45) + (15 + 20) = 100 degrees Total: 545 degrees Staggered Stance: Hip: (130 + 30) + (30 + 40) + (40 + 60) = 330 degrees Knee: 135 + 5 + (10 + 40) = 190 degrees Ankle: (25 + 45) + (20 + 25) = 115 degrees Total: 635 degrees Wide Stance: Hip: (120 + 30) + (45 + 50) + (30 + 40) = 315 degrees Knee: 140 + 0 + (10 + 30) = 180 degrees Ankle: (25 + 45) + (20 + 25) = 115 degrees Total: 610 degrees Conclusion Staggered Stance: Total ROM = 635 degrees Wide Stance: Total ROM = 610 degrees Midline Stance: Total ROM = 545 degrees From these calculations, the Staggered Stance offers the greatest total range of motion, providing the most flexibility for selecting the safest side to depart from the board. The Wide Stance also offers substantial ROM and stability, making it a very good option as well. The Midline Stance provides the least ROM, making it less ideal for quick lateral movements required in eFoil dismounting. Perhaps someday I'll load all this into Houdini so we can visualize the simulation, but not right now. It's summer, and I don't spend 10-20 hours doin anything that feels like work when I could be surfing, sleeping, eating, or fucking. Know what I'm saying? :D
I never saw a video showing me about the stance, but naturally I adopted an extremely staggered stance, similar to the one shown in this video, my front heel is outside the pad and touching the rail, so much that I had to add 3M antislip tape to the rail, My back foot toes are also outside touching the rail so I added some 3M tape there too. It's the stance where I naturally gravitated towards and where I feel I have the most radical control of the board. When I try moving my feet more towards the middle I just don't feel as safe. I feel like the more in the middle my feet are the less able I will be to correct a sudden imbalance ( which happens often in my lake, mostly due to weeds.)
@@RafaelGarcia-uz1we Oh it is definitely safer to ride staggered BUT I've started exploring more midline riding stances and I will admit, it takes less effort to pull off totally smooth and balanced deep carves with a midline stance but with increased danger for hitting the mast should something go wrong. I wouldn't suggest anyone go midline until they've mastered everything else and feel exceptionally confident about feeling their board do anything wacky. You need to react much faster to avoid catastrophe when riding midline than you do when you are staggered. Also the feel of the board is much more muted (at least for me) when midline riding than when in a staggered stance.
@@VerdantRide Thanks for the info :) I think in the future I will trying bringing my feet closer to the center, especially my front foot since I already hit the limit of how far back on the rail It can be without hitting the handle.
Another cool video! Thank you for sharing. I learned to eFoil with the staggered stance. I'm also learning how to wing foil and wingers use a staggered stance generally as well. Last December I suffered my worst eFoil injury to date due to a trigger failure (aka loss of bluetooth between board and controller). For me those are the worst wipe outs and usually end up with a big time face plant. Usually you also end up being thrown directly in front of the board and that time was no different for me. I've naturally learned to shield my face with my arms and it was a good thing as the board launched out of the air when I came off and would have nailed me right in the face. Instead, it hit my left arm and I ended up with a completely fractured ulna. My wetsuit top may have prevented a full compound fracture. I also got a major hematoma on my left hip which actually at the time hurt more than the arm. It was close to three months before I gopt back on the board again.
BTW: I also ride the 4'2" Pro board with the 160 Camber Pro with the 32 Glide tail. Have you tried the 32 and if so why do you like the 36 more? I have the 36 Glide in my quiver but have not tried with the 160 Camber Pro. I'm now thinking about trying the new Havoc 121 wing.
Thanks for putting out your videos on eFoiling.
Bummer about the crash. Yes, I ordered a 32 Glide and was really surprised that is didn't match the same, "Glide Profile" I'm used to with my 36 Glide with upturned wingtips. The 32 Glide they shipped me matches the same profile as my Surf stabs. I think the reason they dropped the price on the 24 & 32 Glide is because they either had a misprint or just poor brand planning. I wrote Lift about this and got the most non-answer possible from their marketing agency. I wrote them two more times and got no response, so I'm pretty much left with, they are dumping a misprinted/mis-manufactured product without actually telling their customers about it.
I MUCH prefer the curved wing tips on my 36 Glide. Way smoother! Is your 32 Glide flat or does it have upturned wingtips?
@@VerdantRide My 32 Glide is flat just like the surf tails. I figured that was the reason they were being discontinued as well. If you're ever down in the Jupiter Fl area hit me up. I'll show you some cool spots to eFoil!
@@snowindirt Sounds great! I'm actually currently looking for pals especially in the warmer states where I can hook up for some rides this winter. So thanks for the invitation.
The Glide series confusion seems super strange to me and when I started investigating and the response I got from Lift's agency that answered my inquiry made it even stranger. It lead me to a whole show about this and some other issues I found lacked the transparency I wished I'd discovered.
Very creative dude.
I take it that your video skills are skills that you use in your professional life. Really nice work and a ton of work at that.
As for the stance I completely agree. Self taught with some RUclips help and in the beginning 6 - 10 hours I tried a bunch of things and when I had a centerline stance the board would roll quickly underneath you and you would just come straight down it. Just lucky didn't hit the wing hard. Lucky. I banged myself up so much that I ended up wearing shin guards for my forearms and padded mesh shorts for snow boarding over my swim suit. I got better and so that's gone. I still don't go much beyond half power, but I am trying your carving tricks to speed up my S-turns so thanks. Your video on the Kaper Call won't work for a GetFoil board as there is a safety limit built into the remote's connection to the board. It will cut out if you are like 10' or so away from the board. Too bad. I could see that as a cool way to get back to the board quickly.
Thanks for the videos!
Yeah, I've got some film-making skills in my past but shooting stuff like this is more just holding a pole where the camera should be. Anyone can do it with the Insta 360 cams and any decent video editing package. My professional life is spent more in strategic execution than in content creation but once amass these skills you never really lose them. AI is getting much better so it is possible to tell a decent story with just a few hours of work that would have taken a week just a few years ago.
GetFoil closed this year right? Are you pretty confident you'll be able to perform your own repairs and keep your board rolling for the foreseeable future? Can you put other wings on it?
Yep, GetFoil folded. I haven't tried other boards so I can't really rank them. GetFoil was the only US company and it seems to be a good product. They just never had the market base anywhere near what was needed to keep the company afloat. Pretty bummed. No more support, no replacement parts from them. Some of their parts suppliers (China) has popped up and started selling those left over inventories like wings. There is a FB community group that is a self help group. I've used their help to solve some water intrusion issues with my remote. Other aspects are addressed there as well. I believe though that I will probably be getting a new Efoil in time. I was looking at a free spinning prop or a jet drive on a Flightboard. Maybe a Air Pro. I now have two season on a board. I'm not that good at it, but I'm getting there.
Enjoying the E Foil the same way you do. Its such a fun, best regards from the Adriatic Sea. Love your videos
Thanks so much!
Mr. Ride, Awesome video as usual. BTW you were right about my controller. Water breached it and it was sending erroneous signals to my eBox causing it to start the motor involuntarily. Lift has taken care of me and sent a new controller. Also, I tried out my 160 Camber Pro (thanks to recommendations in your videos) and it is awesome!! I'm running the 33 carve tail wing with fuselage extender. Looking forward to more instruction. Thanks,
I just tested the 32 Glide. You'll get the show on Sunday. It's actually just a Surf. No curved wingtips like the 36 Glide. I had to do a bunch of investigation to figure that out.
I just ordered the 33 carve tail wing. Why did you get the fuselage extender? I've got a 200 surf v2 in the front. I'm a little worried about teaching others on the 33.
Last summer I was using collapsible prop on Lift 3. Board slipped out from me when going through boat waves and SLASHED my shin deep. Had to e foil back to beach then drive to hospital. 8 stitches. Lucky it wasn’t my neck or I wouldn’t be writing this. I’ve used lift jet ever since.
I've got this rule that I won't got to the ER on weekends in the summer so I keep an Insorb subcutaneous absorbable skin stapler around for just such an occasion. I've never needed it for eFoil related issues but it has saved me from spending a whole day waiting around in an ER a couple of times now.
Got a question for you about the folding prop… I'm considering a show comparing the safety of a gliding prop vs a breaking prop. Would you say that a gliding prop (like the folding, free spinning etc. props made for unpowered wave riding) is more likely to hit their riders especially when falling off the front of the board?
I ask because whenever I get flung off the front of the board like during an unexpected powerloss event, my board stops DEAD in the water and usually dives it's nose causing it to stop so fast that is like SUPER BREAKS. So I never get hit by my own board.
I always ride with a staggered stance-definitely safer-and strongly recommend wearing a helmet. I bought a board this summer and have logged 15-20 hours on it. While cruising at 17 mph and carving, I accidentally breached and somehow ended up in front of the board. I instinctively covered my face when I fell, but as soon as I surfaced and thought I was safe, I moved my arms-WHACK-the board's nose hit me right in the forehead. The impact was so severe I thought my skull had caved in. I ended up riding on my belly for about 2 miles to get home, praying I wouldn’t pass out and drown. In hindsight, heading to shore and calling 911 might have been smarter.
At the ER, they initially thought they could see my skull, and everyone rushed into action. Thankfully, it wasn’t quite as serious, and I walked out with a dozen stitches on my forehead and some bruises. I could just as easily have been knocked out and drowned. While I wouldn’t call myself an expert, I could routinely ride for 45-60 minutes without falling. I’d like to think this was a fluke, but I’m uncertain if I’ll continue with the sport. If I do, I’ll be wearing a helmet every single time.
Here are a few things I think I did wrong, for others to learn from:
- I wasn’t wearing a helmet because I thought I was skilled enough to avoid this type of injury. Always wear a helmet-it could save your life.
- I was wearing a competition vest, not a Coast Guard-approved life jacket. If I had passed out, I’m not sure it would have kept me safe.
- I usually ride around 16 mph but was testing out higher speeds and was going 17 mph. While it seems like a small difference, I probably should have adjusted my stance slightly forward.
- If you accidentally breach, immediately let go of the trigger and bail. Don’t try to save it.
- Keep your arms over your face longer than you think is necessary. That extra second could have prevented a direct hit to the head, reducing the risk of getting knocked out and drowning. Sure, I might have broken some bones in my forearms, but that’s better than a brain injury.
Also, as you mentioned in the video, when I told the doctors it was an eFoil accident, no one knew what that was. After being asked what an eFoil is a dozen times, I just started saying “watersports.” I understand now why you had trouble finding “eFoil” in any reports. When I was leaving, a few people were watching eFoil videos and told me they “learned a new sport today,” so they’ll know next time.
Thanks for providing this video to help others learn how to stay as safe as possible. Feel free to share my story and advocate for everyone to wear helmets, no matter how skilled they think they are.
@@VerdantRide ROFL, good point, I am an organ donor too but am hoarding my organs from those terminal kids. Maybe they should ask their parents, they are not my responsibility. I'm sure a bunch of kids out there were rooting against me.
I heard someone say recently that you should not try to eject until your board hits the water so you are not jumping off while the board is foiling which I had not heard before. Is that something you would recommend? Basically they said to reduce speed and once the board hits the water then bail. I'm not too confident in this situation if that would have worked but curious to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing the story. Sorry you had such a disaster on the water. Sounds like it sucked. You've got a lot we can learn from your story. I've been playing around with stances since I posted this show. Midline is easier in the sense that you get great control over carves with tiny movement in ankles BUT it is significantly riskier when things go wrong. I went from never having close calls or ever landing on the same side as the foil to several times when I found myself unable to choose my ejection trajectory and coming down way too close to the stabby parts.
I also noticed that I was getting just less feedback from the board when riding midline. It is just harder to feel those moments when the board is starting to misbehave and had a bunch of those falls where the board in an unrecoverable state before I noticed anything going wrong.
Stuff I agree with:
1. If not dying is important to you, helmets and a PFD that will keep you upright when unconscious is the only thing you should consider. All other floatation methods are about recovering your body easily, not saving your life.
2. If you feel the board doing something strange, it is always better to eject early and get as far away from the board than to negotiate with the board. I think this is how I've ridden so fast and so hard without even a single close call in 4 years. Eject early if anything feels unexpected to you. You can always Kaper Call your board back to you and keep going and there's no shame in falling. I opt to eject at least once on at least half of my rides. Sometimes, when trying something new or deflowering a new wingset, I eject several times. The key thing to keep in mind is that I "eject" a lot, but I "fall" rarely. The difference is an "eject" is controlled and something I chose to do. Most of my "falls" are due to unexpected stuff like when I get a power loss and get flung off the board.
3. Keep covered until you hear everything go calm, and then count to 10 (or 25 if your internal clock speed is as fast as mine). Then slowly take a peek though around while still remaining covered and tread water doing a 360 before going all clear.
Stuff I disagree with:
1. I don't think that your speed was the problem so much as the way you dealt with the unexpected breach. Higher speeds aren't inherently more dangerous than slower speeds. I've seen many close calls from riders riding too slow more than I have riders riding at high speeds. That wing can hurt you by falling on it at any speed. Each maneuver needs the appropriate speed to pull off successfully. When I'm in a course my speed variation is surprisingly varied. I often come into a pylon in the low 30s (mph) and by the end of the turn drop down to 14 mph. That's over a 50% loss to inertia Then I increase my speed back up within a matter of seconds. This is much more variation in speed than any other type of slalom racing I've ever done. I think learning to feather the throttle was the hardest thing to master on the efoil because you must create significant muscle memory between what your finger is doing on the throttle, and then feel all the changes that is making to the board and adjust your knees, hips, ankles, spine, neck, shoulders and even where your arms so that they all align with the changes to the speed. Is like mastering everything necessary to racing a snowboard while also winning a slot car race.
2. I don't recommend helmets but do recommend being an organ donor. If you love helmet laws you do so exposing your hatred of children dying from kidney failure. This causes me to ask, why do you hate terminally ill children? What did they ever do to you? :P
@@VerdantRide Thanks man, I appreciate the info. The Fliteboard manual and guides all recommend the staggered stance so that is what I have always done too. What I am interested in hearing more about is the unexpected power loss falls as that is what still scares me as I don't feel I have any control over those types of falls. My recent injury I should have ejected earlier and hopefully would been in enough control to get in a better position. I live on a River which does not have the best water clarity so when I had my prop guard on I could basically hit a leaf underwater and come crashing down. Once I took my guard off this was very rare but a few times something clung to the mast and resulted in a power loss however much less severe and usually didn't result in a fall. I am hesitant to get back out there once I am healed up as the unexpected falls and power loss are what concern me the most as it happens so quick and unexpectedly its tough to fall correctly and usually end up front of the board. Luckily whenever this has happened in the past the board stops and I am flung far in front without incident.
Do you have any tips for letting go of the trigger? I obviously always try to do this but in this case I'm assuming I didn't and that's why I got drilled.
That's good to know about the speed, I'm just picturing the board smashing my head in at 30 versus 18 mph and that obviously seems more dangerous haha. In my experience when I'm going 12mph~ I always bail perfectly and the quicker you crash the harder it is to be prepared.
Thanks again for the info, you have 100x more experience than I do so great to get a perspective from someone who has been doing this longer. I definitely want to get back out there once my stiches come out but want to avoid any other injuries, if it happens again it's not worth it (well except for the kids).
@@matthewharris9873 My ejection process isn't something I can likely accurately describe because I think I've moved all that processing over to my unconscious nervous system so it is now more of a reflex than a calculated maneuver at this point. I'm not going to think about it too much because it has kept me safe for probably 1000+ ejections by now and if it ain't broke, don't make it worse by trying to improve it.
When I do choose to ride out a breach, my method is to react quickly but be carful to not over-react. I want you to visualize the scene where Indiana Jones where he trades the bag of sand for the Golden Skull. You gotta be ready for the inertia to change quickly but you want all your movements to be slight. If you panic and drop your speed too low, your entry will be terrible. If you react too slowly, a boulder will fall from the ceiling to crush you. So when I hear that prop spinning in the air, I allow my knees to bend so that even though the board is rising, I'm not. This lets me get closer to the board so I have the ability to adjust higher or lower when I renter, I relax my finger slightly. How much, I cannot say, but some for sure. I'd say that I put my body in position here I'm as close to a 50% ROM so that I can adjust everything on entry giving more or less to anything depending on what is needed. Predicting what the board will do is the hardest part and you kinda gotta be ready to anything the board needs from you.
I'm not a fan of jumping efoils. I've yet to see anyone pull off something that looks cool and smooth consistently. When I was a wakeboarder, I commonly jumped wake to wake launching 8 feet high and landing on the down ramp so smoothly that I barely had to take any of the force in my knees. It looked rad and gave me so much time to pull off spins and rolls and flips that it made wakeboarding a sport was almost 100% about arial maneuvers when crossing the wake. eFoils just aren't (currently) able to do this kind of thing and won't be able to until the weight and friction approaches a foil board. So many riders send me clips of their jumps on an efoil and I watch them land looking like a wounded duck on their recovery that I'm just at a loss how they think this looks cool. Of course if I were a nice person I'd just tell them what they want to hear, but I'm an honest person so I don't. It's better to be an asshole with integrity than a nice liar (IMHO). Nice liars are how we get RayGun and Australia becomes the laughing stock at the Olympics.
I also think that it should be noted that I only ride with fixed props, not folding/gliding props. I want my board to stop DEAD and not chase me around. I only ride a folding prop when I'm in the ocean and want to ride waves unpowered. Frankly, the unpowered experience isn't great because efoils are heavy and even the best folding/gliding props are crap when compared to a foil board without a prop/motor/battery that I'd say they aren't worth the cost and added danger of a board that is more likely to hunt you down after a fall. When I hear sellers trying to push a folding/gliding prop to flat-water riders, I'm just shaking my head. I shake my head a lot when I hear setups that just make no fucking sense. NOBODY SHOULD EVER BUY A 28" MAST EVER!
The Lift4 Pro also provides me extra safety because when the prop stops spinning, it usually always hits with the nose at such a steep angle it is more likely to go under water than to keep chasing me should I have an unexpected powerless and I go flying forward. I've had MANY of those famous Lift mid-ride powerless crashes and while flying through the air would look back and see my board was already half underwater after crashing down at 90˚ stopping DEAD that I'd be willing to argue that the Lift Pro is in many ways the safest of all the boards they make. My Sport is much more likely to land with the nose at an angle where some forward momentum is possible. I'd expect that the added wight and length of even larger boards is even higher, making them more likely to come after you and hit you with more force than smaller and lighter boards.
@@VerdantRide My mast is the standard mast Fliteboard offers which is 29.5". I considered the 32" but they recommended that for ocean wave riding, you're right though, better to have that extra height and not use it and give some extra cushion to prevent unexpected breaches. With the fliteboard controller it has 30 speeds so I don't really use the trigger and just press the buttons to go slower or faster. Since there is no reason to feather the trigger to modulate speed its easier to unconsciously keep your grip on the controller when you fall which is an issue. I have ridden a lift foil before and the ergonomics of the controller are so different it doesn't really allow you to utilize it the same way as the Fliteboard controller. There are pros and cons to each but I'll definitely be trying to use it more like the lift controller in the future so my grip isn't locked.
The other thing I like about the standard Fliteboard prop is it is plastic unlike the metal lift props. That way if it comes in contact with your leg or something it will break and cause less damage than the metal props. Agreed though, I originally planned on getting a folding prop to ride behind surf boats but the board is just too heavy, I would rather get into manual foiling eventually. I'm too obsessed with Wake surfing at the moment to take time off for foiling though...maybe next summer.
Thanks again for the comments and info, definitely helping me mentally prepare to get back out there. Take care and appreciate all the hard work in the videos and education.
I ride hard, in waves, you don’t have control of board and yourself in the washing machine when you inevitably at some point will wipe out…. I’ve had two major hospital overnight stays with efoils. I told the doctors exactly what it was they seemed very interested but I doubt they remembered to log in as an efoil - likely categorized as surf or dinghy.
Whoa! Stay well man! Are you comfortable sharing the details of the specific types of injuries you sustained? I'm interested.
@@VerdantRide Fortunately none involved the wing or prop... still dreading the day that happens. Just a matter of time and opportunites. Both involved kissing the rail... its essentially a 60lb carbon fiber baseball bat if you either flip and then fall into or violent water (double overhead) force feeds the rail into your mouth ..... the end result is oral Maxillofacial Reconstructive Surgery and orthodontics. The blowfish came a little bit late im afraid got for each one of my boards wouldve never happened if utilized but probably wouldnt have sacrificed the performance without the lesson ;-)
I guess it's not possible for light wind wingfoiling because you have to pump. With front feet placed off the middle line you'll push in the wrong place. Not to mention pumpfoiling.
But it's great for efoil and wingfoil on high wind days, when you don't have to pump to get out of the water.
Yeah… I think due to the weight and speed and likelihood of up-kick due to the location of the propulsion, I'm more likely to use a safer stance with efoiling than all my other board sports. Like I said in the video, I ride midline for everything else.
How do you get so good audio? And is it insta 360 camera?
If I tell you, will you subscribe to Verdant Ride?
Watch to the end of the vid. He always shows a complete gear inventory at the end of the show
I’m a winger and previously a kite foiler. All the coaching, and RUclips vids encourage midline stance. Any thoughts?
Do whatever you want. This is what I recommend for the reasons I recommended it. If you like riding midline, ride midline. Whatever benefits I might get from riding midline aren't as important to me as the ability to choose my departure course from the board and I've gotten quite competent at riding staggered so I'm going to keep riding staggered. Every once in a while I play around with midline and other modified stances and other than letting me use much smaller movements with my ankles and my knees to initiate a turn, I think that it doesn't offer anything as powerful as not getting injured.
I don't really know what more you want me to say other than what I've already said. I guess I could provide kinesiology ROM on various stances if you'd like. Here, this is evidence that a staggered stance provides the greatest range of motion. These are what's considered a normal human range of motion as measured by goniometer. Your results may vary… I know mine do. :P
Hip ROM (Degrees)
Stance Flexion/Extension Abduction/Adduction Internal/External Rotation
Midline 120/30 20/30 30/40
Staggered 130/30 30/40 40/60
Wide 120/30 45/50 30/40
Knee ROM (Degrees)
Stance Flexion Extension Internal/External Rotation
Midline 135 0 10/30
Staggered 135 5-10 10/40
Wide 140 0 10/30
Ankle ROM (Degrees)
Stance Dorsiflexion/Plantarflexion Inversion/Eversion
Midline 20/45 15/20
Staggered 25/45 20/25
Wide 25/45 20/25
Summary of Total ROM for Critical Movements
We can sum the ROM for each critical movement based on each stance to provide a comparison:
Midline Stance:
Hip: (120 + 30) + (20 + 30) + (30 + 40) = 270 degrees
Knee: 135 + 0 + (10 + 30) = 175 degrees
Ankle: (20 + 45) + (15 + 20) = 100 degrees
Total: 545 degrees
Staggered Stance:
Hip: (130 + 30) + (30 + 40) + (40 + 60) = 330 degrees
Knee: 135 + 5 + (10 + 40) = 190 degrees
Ankle: (25 + 45) + (20 + 25) = 115 degrees
Total: 635 degrees
Wide Stance:
Hip: (120 + 30) + (45 + 50) + (30 + 40) = 315 degrees
Knee: 140 + 0 + (10 + 30) = 180 degrees
Ankle: (25 + 45) + (20 + 25) = 115 degrees
Total: 610 degrees
Conclusion
Staggered Stance: Total ROM = 635 degrees
Wide Stance: Total ROM = 610 degrees
Midline Stance: Total ROM = 545 degrees
From these calculations, the Staggered Stance offers the greatest total range of motion, providing the most flexibility for selecting the safest side to depart from the board. The Wide Stance also offers substantial ROM and stability, making it a very good option as well. The Midline Stance provides the least ROM, making it less ideal for quick lateral movements required in eFoil dismounting.
Perhaps someday I'll load all this into Houdini so we can visualize the simulation, but not right now. It's summer, and I don't spend 10-20 hours doin anything that feels like work when I could be surfing, sleeping, eating, or fucking. Know what I'm saying? :D
I never saw a video showing me about the stance, but naturally I adopted an extremely staggered stance, similar to the one shown in this video, my front heel is outside the pad and touching the rail, so much that I had to add 3M antislip tape to the rail, My back foot toes are also outside touching the rail so I added some 3M tape there too.
It's the stance where I naturally gravitated towards and where I feel I have the most radical control of the board.
When I try moving my feet more towards the middle I just don't feel as safe. I feel like the more in the middle my feet are the less able I will be to correct a sudden imbalance ( which happens often in my lake, mostly due to weeds.)
@@RafaelGarcia-uz1we Oh it is definitely safer to ride staggered BUT I've started exploring more midline riding stances and I will admit, it takes less effort to pull off totally smooth and balanced deep carves with a midline stance but with increased danger for hitting the mast should something go wrong. I wouldn't suggest anyone go midline until they've mastered everything else and feel exceptionally confident about feeling their board do anything wacky. You need to react much faster to avoid catastrophe when riding midline than you do when you are staggered. Also the feel of the board is much more muted (at least for me) when midline riding than when in a staggered stance.
@@VerdantRide Thanks for the info :) I think in the future I will trying bringing my feet closer to the center, especially my front foot since I already hit the limit of how far back on the rail It can be without hitting the handle.
if you like carnival rides you like efoils ;)
I'm way more into riding any board over any carnival ride.