Spirit Island is what got me into solo gaming so I have a soft spot. Now, I agree with your statement about the climax curve kinda, AP issue, time length, and complexity, but disagree with much of the rest. The mechanics make so much thematic sense and it's the reason the spirits and their powers feel so unique. (Eg: ocean spirit only effective on coasts and its presence moves like a tide. Nightmare spirit never does damage it just causes fear and makes people run.) It'd be hard to have them feel so unique without much of the complexity. The design is extremely thoughtful. Replayability/value you scored low which I really don't get. There are 8 spirits that play very different. The board is randomized + a thematic map, you have 3 optional adversaries that force different strategies (and each have 6 scales of difficulty), there's scenarios, and the combos between spirits introduces so many surprises. It's so replayable. It's one of the few games I come back to soon without months breaks (like I do with most games). I feel like the complexity barrier prevented you from seeing what it has to offer and not mentioning the spirit variety makes it seem like you played once or twice and then decided you didn't like it. (Which is fine) Also, you mention the alpha gamer problem with co-ops and then say you wish some would alpha game this game for you. That makes it a complexity issue and not alpha gamer issue. Anyway, everyone has different tastes, and I can understand why some wouldn't enjoy the game. Just wanted to bring up some of the things that seems to be overlooked. To me, such an outrageously low score would signal a poorly designed or broken game, whereas I think it's a brilliantly designed game that you just don't like.
Hey there, Chris! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you; I wanted to take the time to type up more than just a short response and then I was on vacation for a week! I totally understand about having a soft spot for a game; that's how I am with Stone Age because it was probably the most important game in getting me into modern board games but there are SO many games that I enjoy more at this point! To respond to your points: I did acknowledge that the theme is decently represented in what's happening in the game, that's why I gave it a 9/10. I do appreciate that the uniqueness of the spirits' abilities necessitates more complexity. I gave the replayability a 9/10 but the cost vs. value a 7.5/10 because $80 MSRP for what's in the box seems a little high. I did play the game three times and I tried my best to enjoy each play and it just didn't do it for me. I just wanted it to be over by the three hour mark which is why I made the comment about preferring someone to just quarterback the game to speed it along! In my defense, I tried to be objective and my less-biased score was a 7.56/10 while my subjective, personal score was a 2.8/10. I think Spirit Island is a good game, it's just not for me! 😊
Played this four (maybe five times) and won at least two of those. It always felt challenging but beatable. Mind you this was always the base scenario. I’ve never played with a group that took that long nor one that had one quarter back/alpha. This game for me hits a good note of involvement of the entire table if they get into it. It’s always good to see reviewers with games they don’t like. Often it’s always positive reviews and if you’re watching reviews for what clicks with your interests than you can find that in both the positive and negative ones.
I’m glad to hear that you didn’t have the sort of negative experiences that I did with Spirit Island! I mentioned in the comments that co-op games really rely on the group that’s playing for the game to really shine… maybe you just had an especially good group to play with! You’re right that this game encourages involvement from everyone at the table… that’s a plus for this game for sure! The second part of your comment is why I wanted to do this review. I am so enthusiastic about the games that are at the top of my list and I don’t want anyone getting the idea that I get that excited for just any old game! As much as I enjoy hundreds of different games, I do think I have a relatively high bar for what a good game is! Or at least what kinds of games I like, if nothing else!
Great breakdown. I personally am not drawn to the game so I haven’t played, but it’s hyped among the solo community. Commonly among the tops 3. Good job with the objective rating and personal rating.
Thanks, Mike! I have heard that it plays really well solo and the guy who let me borrow his copy for the review tried to convince me to try a solo game, but I just don’t want to play it again… even though I think I would probably like it more solo. And I wanted to make sure people knew I wasn’t just bashing the game which is why I gave it two different scores. I do think it’s a good game, but I just as strongly feel that’s it’s not for me at all. Thank you again for the comment!
@@BoardgamesforOne I'm glad it didn't come across that way! The biggest thing I wanted to avoid was sounding like I had anything negative to say about people who like Spirit Island! (And I'm sure you have so many solo/co-op games you would and could rather play! Spend time on games that you like playing!) 👍🏼
There has been so much hype around this game i was really excited to play it. Being that the two of us have very similar tastes in games i think i will spend my rime elsewhere. Glad i didnt back it.
It’s definitely a very-hyped game for sure! But like I said, there’s a reason it’s #11 on BGG! We do have very similar tastes in general but I’m not sure how you feel about co-op games… if you’re into them, you might like Spirit Island!
There's nothing wrong with not liking Spirit Island . I'm not an expert, I play mainly solo (one spirit, 45 minutes on average) and I think it's great fun how vastly different the spirits play. Each of them is totally capable of handling the invaders on it's own, and each of them can support others. Our games with 3-4 ppl indeed took 3-5 (!) hours, but we enjoyed it (maybe because we discovered the game together?). Funny enough, in my opinion "Pandemic" is much more difficult to win (I'm talking about the board game). And I was a bit suprised how my 10 yo liked the game and was totally capable to play. I have the impression that you probably had an unfavorable first impression of the game (for whatever reasons). So I think there is a chance that you change your mind if your revisit the game, but not liking Spirit Island is a minor flaw of one's personalty, in the greater scheme of things. 😋
I'm almost convinced that I would probably enjoy the game solo at this point, but there are so many solo games I'd rather play! It's funny because many of the people I've disagreed with about this game have very similar tastes in board games to me... strange that this one is where we typically diverge the most! (Five hours of Spirit Island?! Oof!!) I did first play the game pretty early in my board gaming days so I may not have been ready for that heavy of a game; that certainly could be part of it! Thank you for your graciousness in looking past my admitted fault of not liking Spirit Island! I'll try to make it up to you with other heavy games! 😉
I have only played Spirit Island solo… and only around 6 times. I liked it, but I agree the win ‘curve’ is an unusual one; the games I’ve played have been: This is impossible This is punishing This is tough How am I going to possibly win? Oh I won! Eh?
Haha, thank you for backing me up on that! It just doesn't have the normal "story arc" that a typical co-op/solo game has. The final outcome of the game can also come down to pure luck which is not my favorite way for a co-op/solo game to end! But that's just my own personal preference and, to be fair, could probably be said about some of my favorite solo games!
It is a difficult game to win for sure... which I don't mind at all! (I love the co-op game Robinson Crusoe and that one's just as hard to win... if not more so!) 🏝
Great objective background and view on Spirit Island. Spirit Island is one of my favorite games next to Everdell. While I playing with others is fun, I rather play this one solo. As much as it hurt to hear the negatives about Spirit Island, it was also a tiny, tiny bit refreshing since the game does get so much praise. Awesome review! 😄
Thank you so much for the comment, Rich! Especially coming from someone for whom Spirit Island is one of their favorite games! I mentioned in a comment above that people tell me that it’s a really great solo experience but I have many other solo games I’d rather play than give SI another try! I do think it would play better (at least for me) at one or two players, though! I certainly didn’t mean any harm with my negative commentary, but it sounds like you could discern between my objective criticism and my personal gripes with the game! (And you admitted it was refreshing to hear a different take on this game! 😉 I couldn’t find a negative review on RUclips, although I probably could have looked harder!)
An interesting damning critique of my favourite games! Fair assessments as you speak to your own experience though mine differs for reasons I will elaborate. AP is not a big issue in my plays though it's probably why I would not play with 4+ players and really like 2. It's also why I am not a big fan solo. I want to see multiple spirits in action; that gets complex and really burns my brain playing 2 handed (perish the thought of playing with more). If you try to fully plan everything multiplayer it will be hard, especially playing by committee (or the alternative, the dreaded alpha player). This means that we tend to play exactly as Jan describes. Figuring out what crises we can personally deal with and asking or offering help for others. People often say AP and Alpha players are player issues not game issues but they are both. This game is so complex that it's easy for me to share responsibility and let people get on with their own game. If this does not apply in your group then it will be an issue made even worse by that complexity! The support role issue is just bad play as you are failing to develop if you keep repeating those cards and you should be greatly increasing in power. It may be a fault of the game that is allows bad play that is unfun but it is not a game where the unfun activity is the strongest option. In general it is good design to have different powers that have play styles appealing to different people. In practice of course it can be hard to find the spirits you like given the opacity of the game to new players. I don't get the end game complaint at all. Perhaps you would prefer it to have VP? ;) The VCs are a bit misleading as 90%+ of games are won in fear level 3 with no cities on the board. That could have been the one victory condition the game has. Even though having more opens the game to a couple of different spirit styles they could be skipped (realistically about 2-3 out of 20+ can/have to shoot for other VC). I have no thematic disconnect either. The game represents the colonists will to continue their struggle as well as their level of achievement. At the beginning they are full of confidence and have the will to overcome any setbacks. As they suffer attrition and adversity they become more disillusioned and can be defeated more easily. It like a real colonial war - Vietnam say. The NVA did not bring America to its knees but the US lost the will to continue to fight (or Great Britain in the US revolution). If you did want to play again 2 player is the way but there are undoubtedly games out there that suit you better.
Hey there, Jonathan! Thank you for the comment! I appreciated you starting and ending by validating my own experience with the game! Of course, so much of this video is personal and subjective! Your point about player count is one echoed by many: perhaps playing it at 2P would change my overall opinion of the game! And the way the players play is such a big factor in co-op games. Like you said, sometimes there are player issues, not game issues. Someone on BGG made the same point about the reclaim loop, primarily arguing that that’s due to poor play rather than bad design. Although your comment reminded me of a memorable phrase from a game designer friend of mine: “the way to win the game should also be the most fun”. It may have been that, in the last game, we stumbled upon a really strong strategy that just required me to reclaim my cards a LOT. But again, that’s just an anecdotal experience. Haha, I suppose I do prefer a thematic endgame condition to a VP-based condition, and multiple win conditions is something I actually really like in games! I think it’s probably just the decreasing difficulty of the win condition (although it’s very hard to win at levels 1 and 2) that seems backwards. I did give Spirit Island a 9/10 for thematic integration with just a few hangups regarding spirit abilities and fiddly dahan interactions and such but I like the way you connect the decreasing win thresholds to real-world examples like the war in Vietnam and the American Revolution! Attrition warfare, as it were! Thanks again for the comment! I figured this video would spark some conversation but I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the level of thoughtfulness and discourse! ☺️
You have to score a certain amount of Fear plus "diminished settlement" to win, and that amount does not change. In fact you could say you need 4 VP to win. Fear level is 1 VP. You get 1 for no cities 2 for no towns or cities and 3 for no invaders at all.. ta da VP. I strongly agree with the most fun should be best comment, it's even more prevalent in video games. I just think reclaiming every turn is not the strongest. It may be late game for 2-3 turns with Lightning's Swift Strike but you will be playing 4-5 powers which should give you some sense of achievement!
Wow! That was a seamless way to quantify/convert the endgame conditions into victory points! Impressive! And you're probably right: like I said, someone else's comment on BGG implied that I was probably just playing poorly if I was getting stuck in a reclaim loop that early. Oh well! Maybe there's another play of Spirit Island somewhere in my future and I'll have a new lease on the game afterward! We'll just have to wait and see!
@@BoardGameDave :) You were perhaps playing well vs the adversaries you had but against the tougher ones you need to scale and for that you need to get down as much presence as you can.
A kindred spirit! Yeah, I hate to say it, but Spirit Island ranks really low out of the hundreds of games I’ve played, primarily because of the length. But wait a minute… Gaia Project?! What’s wrong with Gaia Project?? 🤣
@@BoardGameDave to be honest, I think it is a game that I need someone to personally walk me through. But I’ve traded it away already. I tried it on BGA and going to try it again hopefully with someone who can teach me as we play. 😅
@@DaniCha Oh yeah, that makes total sense! It would be extremely hard to learn a game like that from a rulebook! (I’ve actually never played GP but I played its predecessor, Terra Mystica back in the day.) I’m glad you traded it away if it wasn’t your cup of tea, though! So many games, so little time, right?
Even though I like negative reviews (I've done several written ones myself on my favourite games) I have some problems with yours. I'll go point by point. 1. You dislike the depth of Spirit Island's depth. get it. Next 2. This is the same as number one. The game is too thinky. We get it, no need to repeat yourself. And also: you say the game has an Alpha gamer problem, then you say you want the game to be Alpha gamed... what? 3. Even though you mistakenly claim that Powerstorm is Lightning's starting card (it's a Major power), you are correct. You can get stuck in a reclaim loop with some spirits if you don't know what you're doing. And I have no idea why you named this segment "support roles". It has nothing to do with that. 4. Fair point. Note: When you increase the difficulty, the problem goes away
I’m glad to hear that you like negative reviews! I feel like they’re harder to make because they invite more critique but that they’re worth doing! (I like that you do negative reviews on your favorite games… that’s interesting!) Just a few points in response to your comment, which I appreciated! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Perhaps it was a bit sardonic, but I was saying I would rather someone “Alpha game” the whole thing to get it over with faster than muddle through the game for three to four hours! Every time I’ve played, we’ve used the power progression cards, so in my mind Powerstorm belongs to Lightning’s Swift Strike. I see how that would not necessarily be the case if you were pulling random powers, so that’s a fair point. And I was using the term “support roles” to summarize the way my strongest abilities were primarily used to help the other players by speeding up their actions and providing them with energy. Finally, I haven’t experimented too much with increasing the difficulty so I don’t have any experience with how that would affect the endgame conditions. Thank you for the suggestion though, and thank you for taking the time to respond to the video! Where would I be able to find your written reviews? 👍🏼
@@BoardGameDave You're welcome! One thing though: You should have played without the progression cards because they skew one's perception on the game (and I would guess you'd like it even less, but still). The game is meant to be played without them. Also: How many times have you played and at what player count? The game is significantly easier with 2 than with 4 for beginners. And, I still don't get the support roles part, why is it negative? You can find my reviews on Board Game Geek. I've done 3 reviews: on Mage Knight, Spirit Island and Gloomhaven. They're called. "A negative review from a guy that rates it a 9.5/10 and has played it X times"
You’re absolutely right! I wasn’t ever teaching the game but looking at the rulebook, you’re right: the player progression cards should only have been used by first-time players. I wonder if I would feel less limited if there was a whole random deck of power cards to choose from instead of a set order of cards? And I’ve played three times total, each at 3P or 4P. (A different group each time.) I think the game would definitely play better at fewer players, and I’ve heard so many good things about the solo experience! The support role thing is just a personal, subjective negative for me. I said in the video that some people might really like playing that role; I would just prefer to be more involved in what’s going on on the map instead of primarily supporting the other players! You’re @Floating World, right? I found your reviews on BGG! Great stuff! 👏🏼
@@BoardGameDave You weren't clear on the support role stuff since you were also talking about the reclaim loop. Thanks! My stance is that the negative reviews and negative points are always better (unless, they're incorrect off course). Keep up the good work and remember to finish with 1 point before switching to another.:)
Hi there! I'm honored to have an Argentinian viewer! I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't a fan of Spirit Island, although I don't know if I would go as far as to say that I hate it! Definitely complex, though! Thanks for your comment!
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Spirit Island is what got me into solo gaming so I have a soft spot. Now, I agree with your statement about the climax curve kinda, AP issue, time length, and complexity, but disagree with much of the rest.
The mechanics make so much thematic sense and it's the reason the spirits and their powers feel so unique. (Eg: ocean spirit only effective on coasts and its presence moves like a tide. Nightmare spirit never does damage it just causes fear and makes people run.) It'd be hard to have them feel so unique without much of the complexity. The design is extremely thoughtful.
Replayability/value you scored low which I really don't get. There are 8 spirits that play very different. The board is randomized + a thematic map, you have 3 optional adversaries that force different strategies (and each have 6 scales of difficulty), there's scenarios, and the combos between spirits introduces so many surprises. It's so replayable. It's one of the few games I come back to soon without months breaks (like I do with most games).
I feel like the complexity barrier prevented you from seeing what it has to offer and not mentioning the spirit variety makes it seem like you played once or twice and then decided you didn't like it. (Which is fine)
Also, you mention the alpha gamer problem with co-ops and then say you wish some would alpha game this game for you. That makes it a complexity issue and not alpha gamer issue.
Anyway, everyone has different tastes, and I can understand why some wouldn't enjoy the game. Just wanted to bring up some of the things that seems to be overlooked. To me, such an outrageously low score would signal a poorly designed or broken game, whereas I think it's a brilliantly designed game that you just don't like.
Hey there, Chris! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you; I wanted to take the time to type up more than just a short response and then I was on vacation for a week! I totally understand about having a soft spot for a game; that's how I am with Stone Age because it was probably the most important game in getting me into modern board games but there are SO many games that I enjoy more at this point! To respond to your points: I did acknowledge that the theme is decently represented in what's happening in the game, that's why I gave it a 9/10. I do appreciate that the uniqueness of the spirits' abilities necessitates more complexity. I gave the replayability a 9/10 but the cost vs. value a 7.5/10 because $80 MSRP for what's in the box seems a little high. I did play the game three times and I tried my best to enjoy each play and it just didn't do it for me. I just wanted it to be over by the three hour mark which is why I made the comment about preferring someone to just quarterback the game to speed it along! In my defense, I tried to be objective and my less-biased score was a 7.56/10 while my subjective, personal score was a 2.8/10. I think Spirit Island is a good game, it's just not for me! 😊
Played this four (maybe five times) and won at least two of those. It always felt challenging but beatable. Mind you this was always the base scenario. I’ve never played with a group that took that long nor one that had one quarter back/alpha. This game for me hits a good note of involvement of the entire table if they get into it.
It’s always good to see reviewers with games they don’t like. Often it’s always positive reviews and if you’re watching reviews for what clicks with your interests than you can find that in both the positive and negative ones.
I’m glad to hear that you didn’t have the sort of negative experiences that I did with Spirit Island! I mentioned in the comments that co-op games really rely on the group that’s playing for the game to really shine… maybe you just had an especially good group to play with! You’re right that this game encourages involvement from everyone at the table… that’s a plus for this game for sure!
The second part of your comment is why I wanted to do this review. I am so enthusiastic about the games that are at the top of my list and I don’t want anyone getting the idea that I get that excited for just any old game! As much as I enjoy hundreds of different games, I do think I have a relatively high bar for what a good game is! Or at least what kinds of games I like, if nothing else!
Great breakdown. I personally am not drawn to the game so I haven’t played, but it’s hyped among the solo community. Commonly among the tops 3. Good job with the objective rating and personal rating.
Thanks, Mike! I have heard that it plays really well solo and the guy who let me borrow his copy for the review tried to convince me to try a solo game, but I just don’t want to play it again… even though I think I would probably like it more solo. And I wanted to make sure people knew I wasn’t just bashing the game which is why I gave it two different scores. I do think it’s a good game, but I just as strongly feel that’s it’s not for me at all. Thank you again for the comment!
@@BoardGameDave didn’t sound like a bash. It was quite respectful and honestly sounds like the reasons in my gut I’m just not interested in it.
@@BoardgamesforOne I'm glad it didn't come across that way! The biggest thing I wanted to avoid was sounding like I had anything negative to say about people who like Spirit Island! (And I'm sure you have so many solo/co-op games you would and could rather play! Spend time on games that you like playing!) 👍🏼
There has been so much hype around this game i was really excited to play it. Being that the two of us have very similar tastes in games i think i will spend my rime elsewhere. Glad i didnt back it.
It’s definitely a very-hyped game for sure! But like I said, there’s a reason it’s #11 on BGG! We do have very similar tastes in general but I’m not sure how you feel about co-op games… if you’re into them, you might like Spirit Island!
There's nothing wrong with not liking Spirit Island . I'm not an expert, I play mainly solo (one spirit, 45 minutes on average) and I think it's great fun how vastly different the spirits play. Each of them is totally capable of handling the invaders on it's own, and each of them can support others. Our games with 3-4 ppl indeed took 3-5 (!) hours, but we enjoyed it (maybe because we discovered the game together?). Funny enough, in my opinion "Pandemic" is much more difficult to win (I'm talking about the board game). And I was a bit suprised how my 10 yo liked the game and was totally capable to play. I have the impression that you probably had an unfavorable first impression of the game (for whatever reasons). So I think there is a chance that you change your mind if your revisit the game, but not liking Spirit Island is a minor flaw of one's personalty, in the greater scheme of things. 😋
I'm almost convinced that I would probably enjoy the game solo at this point, but there are so many solo games I'd rather play! It's funny because many of the people I've disagreed with about this game have very similar tastes in board games to me... strange that this one is where we typically diverge the most! (Five hours of Spirit Island?! Oof!!) I did first play the game pretty early in my board gaming days so I may not have been ready for that heavy of a game; that certainly could be part of it! Thank you for your graciousness in looking past my admitted fault of not liking Spirit Island! I'll try to make it up to you with other heavy games! 😉
I have only played Spirit Island solo… and only around 6 times.
I liked it, but I agree the win ‘curve’ is an unusual one; the games I’ve played have been:
This is impossible
This is punishing
This is tough
How am I going to possibly win?
Oh I won!
Eh?
Haha, thank you for backing me up on that! It just doesn't have the normal "story arc" that a typical co-op/solo game has. The final outcome of the game can also come down to pure luck which is not my favorite way for a co-op/solo game to end! But that's just my own personal preference and, to be fair, could probably be said about some of my favorite solo games!
Good all round review. Before You Play talk about this one being quite difficult to win, also.
It is a difficult game to win for sure... which I don't mind at all! (I love the co-op game Robinson Crusoe and that one's just as hard to win... if not more so!) 🏝
Great objective background and view on Spirit Island. Spirit Island is one of my favorite games next to Everdell. While I playing with others is fun, I rather play this one solo.
As much as it hurt to hear the negatives about Spirit Island, it was also a tiny, tiny bit refreshing since the game does get so much praise.
Awesome review! 😄
Thank you so much for the comment, Rich! Especially coming from someone for whom Spirit Island is one of their favorite games! I mentioned in a comment above that people tell me that it’s a really great solo experience but I have many other solo games I’d rather play than give SI another try! I do think it would play better (at least for me) at one or two players, though!
I certainly didn’t mean any harm with my negative commentary, but it sounds like you could discern between my objective criticism and my personal gripes with the game! (And you admitted it was refreshing to hear a different take on this game! 😉 I couldn’t find a negative review on RUclips, although I probably could have looked harder!)
An interesting damning critique of my favourite games! Fair assessments as you speak to your own experience though mine differs for reasons I will elaborate.
AP is not a big issue in my plays though it's probably why I would not play with 4+ players and really like 2. It's also why I am not a big fan solo. I want to see multiple spirits in action; that gets complex and really burns my brain playing 2 handed (perish the thought of playing with more). If you try to fully plan everything multiplayer it will be hard, especially playing by committee (or the alternative, the dreaded alpha player). This means that we tend to play exactly as Jan describes. Figuring out what crises we can personally deal with and asking or offering help for others. People often say AP and Alpha players are player issues not game issues but they are both. This game is so complex that it's easy for me to share responsibility and let people get on with their own game. If this does not apply in your group then it will be an issue made even worse by that complexity!
The support role issue is just bad play as you are failing to develop if you keep repeating those cards and you should be greatly increasing in power. It may be a fault of the game that is allows bad play that is unfun but it is not a game where the unfun activity is the strongest option. In general it is good design to have different powers that have play styles appealing to different people. In practice of course it can be hard to find the spirits you like given the opacity of the game to new players.
I don't get the end game complaint at all. Perhaps you would prefer it to have VP? ;) The VCs are a bit misleading as 90%+ of games are won in fear level 3 with no cities on the board. That could have been the one victory condition the game has. Even though having more opens the game to a couple of different spirit styles they could be skipped (realistically about 2-3 out of 20+ can/have to shoot for other VC).
I have no thematic disconnect either. The game represents the colonists will to continue their struggle as well as their level of achievement. At the beginning they are full of confidence and have the will to overcome any setbacks. As they suffer attrition and adversity they become more disillusioned and can be defeated more easily. It like a real colonial war - Vietnam say. The NVA did not bring America to its knees but the US lost the will to continue to fight (or Great Britain in the US revolution).
If you did want to play again 2 player is the way but there are undoubtedly games out there that suit you better.
Hey there, Jonathan! Thank you for the comment! I appreciated you starting and ending by validating my own experience with the game! Of course, so much of this video is personal and subjective! Your point about player count is one echoed by many: perhaps playing it at 2P would change my overall opinion of the game! And the way the players play is such a big factor in co-op games. Like you said, sometimes there are player issues, not game issues.
Someone on BGG made the same point about the reclaim loop, primarily arguing that that’s due to poor play rather than bad design. Although your comment reminded me of a memorable phrase from a game designer friend of mine: “the way to win the game should also be the most fun”. It may have been that, in the last game, we stumbled upon a really strong strategy that just required me to reclaim my cards a LOT. But again, that’s just an anecdotal experience.
Haha, I suppose I do prefer a thematic endgame condition to a VP-based condition, and multiple win conditions is something I actually really like in games! I think it’s probably just the decreasing difficulty of the win condition (although it’s very hard to win at levels 1 and 2) that seems backwards.
I did give Spirit Island a 9/10 for thematic integration with just a few hangups regarding spirit abilities and fiddly dahan interactions and such but I like the way you connect the decreasing win thresholds to real-world examples like the war in Vietnam and the American Revolution! Attrition warfare, as it were!
Thanks again for the comment! I figured this video would spark some conversation but I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the level of thoughtfulness and discourse! ☺️
You have to score a certain amount of Fear plus "diminished settlement" to win, and that amount does not change.
In fact you could say you need 4 VP to win. Fear level is 1 VP. You get 1 for no cities 2 for no towns or cities and 3 for no invaders at all.. ta da VP.
I strongly agree with the most fun should be best comment, it's even more prevalent in video games. I just think reclaiming every turn is not the strongest. It may be late game for 2-3 turns with Lightning's Swift Strike but you will be playing 4-5 powers which should give you some sense of achievement!
Wow! That was a seamless way to quantify/convert the endgame conditions into victory points! Impressive! And you're probably right: like I said, someone else's comment on BGG implied that I was probably just playing poorly if I was getting stuck in a reclaim loop that early. Oh well! Maybe there's another play of Spirit Island somewhere in my future and I'll have a new lease on the game afterward! We'll just have to wait and see!
@@BoardGameDave :) You were perhaps playing well vs the adversaries you had but against the tougher ones you need to scale and for that you need to get down as much presence as you can.
@@jonathanpickles2946 I would imagine that’d be the case! I barely had any presence on the board if I remember correctly! 😅
I hear you.
Spirit Island and Gaia Project are at the bottom of list and I don’t foresee that changing anytime soon.
A kindred spirit! Yeah, I hate to say it, but Spirit Island ranks really low out of the hundreds of games I’ve played, primarily because of the length. But wait a minute… Gaia Project?! What’s wrong with Gaia Project?? 🤣
@@BoardGameDave to be honest, I think it is a game that I need someone to personally walk me through. But I’ve traded it away already. I tried it on BGA and going to try it again hopefully with someone who can teach me as we play. 😅
@@DaniCha Oh yeah, that makes total sense! It would be extremely hard to learn a game like that from a rulebook! (I’ve actually never played GP but I played its predecessor, Terra Mystica back in the day.) I’m glad you traded it away if it wasn’t your cup of tea, though! So many games, so little time, right?
Even though I like negative reviews (I've done several written ones myself on my favourite games) I have some problems with yours. I'll go point by point.
1. You dislike the depth of Spirit Island's depth. get it. Next
2. This is the same as number one. The game is too thinky. We get it, no need to repeat yourself. And also: you say the game has an Alpha gamer problem, then you say you want the game to be Alpha gamed... what?
3. Even though you mistakenly claim that Powerstorm is Lightning's starting card (it's a Major power), you are correct. You can get stuck in a reclaim loop with some spirits if you don't know what you're doing. And I have no idea why you named this segment "support roles". It has nothing to do with that.
4. Fair point. Note: When you increase the difficulty, the problem goes away
I’m glad to hear that you like negative reviews! I feel like they’re harder to make because they invite more critique but that they’re worth doing! (I like that you do negative reviews on your favorite games… that’s interesting!) Just a few points in response to your comment, which I appreciated! Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Perhaps it was a bit sardonic, but I was saying I would rather someone “Alpha game” the whole thing to get it over with faster than muddle through the game for three to four hours! Every time I’ve played, we’ve used the power progression cards, so in my mind Powerstorm belongs to Lightning’s Swift Strike. I see how that would not necessarily be the case if you were pulling random powers, so that’s a fair point. And I was using the term “support roles” to summarize the way my strongest abilities were primarily used to help the other players by speeding up their actions and providing them with energy. Finally, I haven’t experimented too much with increasing the difficulty so I don’t have any experience with how that would affect the endgame conditions. Thank you for the suggestion though, and thank you for taking the time to respond to the video! Where would I be able to find your written reviews? 👍🏼
@@BoardGameDave
You're welcome! One thing though: You should have played without the progression cards because they skew one's perception on the game (and I would guess you'd like it even less, but still). The game is meant to be played without them.
Also: How many times have you played and at what player count? The game is significantly easier with 2 than with 4 for beginners.
And, I still don't get the support roles part, why is it negative?
You can find my reviews on Board Game Geek. I've done 3 reviews: on Mage Knight, Spirit Island and Gloomhaven. They're called. "A negative review from a guy that rates it a 9.5/10 and has played it X times"
You’re absolutely right! I wasn’t ever teaching the game but looking at the rulebook, you’re right: the player progression cards should only have been used by first-time players. I wonder if I would feel less limited if there was a whole random deck of power cards to choose from instead of a set order of cards?
And I’ve played three times total, each at 3P or 4P. (A different group each time.) I think the game would definitely play better at fewer players, and I’ve heard so many good things about the solo experience!
The support role thing is just a personal, subjective negative for me. I said in the video that some people might really like playing that role; I would just prefer to be more involved in what’s going on on the map instead of primarily supporting the other players!
You’re @Floating World, right? I found your reviews on BGG! Great stuff! 👏🏼
@@BoardGameDave You weren't clear on the support role stuff since you were also talking about the reclaim loop.
Thanks! My stance is that the negative reviews and negative points are always better (unless, they're incorrect off course).
Keep up the good work and remember to finish with 1 point before switching to another.:)
@@BoardGameDave And yes, you feel a lot more freedom without the progression cards.
Excellent video! I hate Spirit Island, just a complex but not good at all design. Greetings from Argentina!
Hi there! I'm honored to have an Argentinian viewer! I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't a fan of Spirit Island, although I don't know if I would go as far as to say that I hate it! Definitely complex, though! Thanks for your comment!