They actually reference Kiryl's tendency to click Whack and nothing else in one of the crossover spinoff games (I think it was one of the Warriors games, I don't remember) where Kiryl's super move is him casting Whack a buncha times and failing, only to get super angry and destroy the text boxes saying he failed, and then casts another Whack that actually works this time.
Yes that sucks but then again the SNES version of DQ4 never officially left Japan so the DS remake of it was the only official English dub of the game and it DOES have Manual mode.
14:28 Fun fact, Dragon Quest Heroes actually answers this question believe it or not. If you use his Coup-de-Grâce (The special nuke), he will keep using Whack over and over again in rapid succession, and eventually gets so pissed that he just combines it all into a giant Kathwack in sheer fury. The best part is that text boxes float around him saying that Whack failed every time he whiffed, as a further nod to his horrible ai. I loved it when I saw it for the first time.
Bonus points for Kiryl on both Dragon Quest Heroes games, where his ultimate attack is a flurry of Thwack spells that miss, with the same in-game prompts and all, but he finally has it, breaks the prompts and throws one bigger Thwack spell (Kathwack?) for massive damage to all enemies
Hear me out: What would you think of a game called "Incompetent Fools" where you're a Healer tasked with carrying a team of the titular fools to victory
And then there’s Beelzebub’s Death Flies in SMT III Nocturne, where if you’re not immune to the element, you die. If you are, it’ll still hurt like hell. Like “elemental-resistance-ignoring” hell. Once you fuse him and get him on your side though, hoo boy.
What I read (I think it's on the wiki. I obviously have no way to verify) is that instead of knowing everything like in other DQ games, DQIV characters are supposed to learn enemy behavior with trial and error, poorly mimicking a human player. Kyril will try (T)Whack on any enemies, and eventually he'll figure out it doesn't work if it fails enough, in theory. Obviously, bosses are only fought once so he'll never gets the occasion to learn. Worse, each phase of the bosses is considered as a different monster! And since the final boss has, like, seven phases, he'll never gets the occasion to learn
Such a funny yet annoying concept for a character. Reminds me of the whole 'character has one special move and uses it in every fight' trope. Also so glad to know where kiryl comes from. I first saw him in fortune street on the wii and had no idea who he was. Although he had a low ranking for cpu difficulty and now I can see why.
When I was younger I had a Pokémon battle with this kid I met at a club. He swept almost my entire team by landing 5 OHKO Fissures in a row. It was so gloriously improbable (0.2%) that I couldn’t even be mad.
iirc, in DQIV, the ai of your allies is programmed to prioritize their strongest attacks and/or spells. Since Whack and Thwack are OHKO moves, the game might be programmed so that they deal the maximum amount of damage possible, so Kiryl's ai might see that Whack and Thwack deal the most damage out of his other attacks, and prioritizes them over everything else. Also, I think the reason why he doesn't heal until someone is at critical HP is because the ai might also be programmed to not prioritize healing until an ally's HP reaches that point.
The funny thing about ohko moves in Pokémon is that their accuracy has a unique formula.they ignore evasion and accuracy stages and for every 1 level over the opponent they gain one accuracy ( opposite is also true) if you are using a level 100 vs a level 30 Mon or lower they always hit. This is granted probably the least useful time for that to happen but it’s more then some ohko attacks in RPGs can say. They are also a potential solution if an opponent has been spamming evasion stages
Interestingly enough, in DQIX the the whack family of spells' chance to work is based on the caster's magical mending stat. Sadly, by the time a priest's magical mending gets high enough for them to work consistently, you'll probably have unlocked other skills that are more worth your time using like solar flare. Or just have a Gladiator that hits for 500+ damage with regular attacks.
I've heard horror stories of the AI party members in Fossil Fighters Frontier. They have a bad tendency of wasting the points shared by everyone in the team to use moves. So if you pick a vivisaur that doesn't line up well with the AI controlled ones, saying they're actively hindering you would be an understatement. They're preventing you from being able to do anything in your turn! Unsurprisingly this is one of the many reasons why Frontier is seen as the worst in the trilogy.
I only played the first game. If you mean to look me in the eye and tell me the tri-formation of vivisaurs in that game is handled by the AI in frontier, I guess I missed nothing.
Yep that's why I prefer the first game and Champions. At least Champions for all its weird design choices let's you snap the game's difficulty over your knee with an early Super revival fossil if you get lucky/grind.
That's why I mainly used AI party members with low FP moves. That's the only way I could use high attack vivosaurs without having to worry about FP. It's such a shame too since Fossil Fighters Frontier had lots of potential with vehicle exploration and different upgrades.
10:20 Meanwhile, the amazing thing is when Kiryl/Cristo and Alena are a Savvy Guy Energetic Girl example,to which I still agree. But with Kiryl/Cristo's instant death spell attempt spam, yeah, how does that work?
For more dumb AI Companions look no further than SMTIV. In SMTIV and IV Apocalypse in addition of having your main party of the protagonist and demons, you also have AI Controlled Partners that aid you in battles. There were some big problems with this mechanic in SMTIV however. First you can´t choose your partner and they get randomly chosen at the beginning of each battle, so you can´t properly prepare around them. Second is the fact that they will attack enemies with attacks they´re immune too and while luckily they don´t away your press turns if they do so, since they attack after your turn, they may end up causing the enemy to Smirk. Smirk is an Buff exclusive to the IV Duology and was really BS in IV. Smirking may be granted to someone if they Null/Reflect/Drain an attack, hit a weakness or land a critical. Smirk in IV grants insane evasion, weaknesses turn into neutral and the next attack is a guranteed Critical. T his is one of the reasons Minotaur ( the first major Boss ) is so infamous, due to Walter ( He´s specializes in Fire/Physical Attacks, Minotaur nulls Fire ) using Agi on him, causing him to smirk and then proceed to murder your Party with Labrys Strike ( multi hit, HEAVY, physical attack ). You can consider it an kindness that ( most ) optional bosses turn Partners off. For another example this time from IV Apocalypse is Gaston. IVA did improve the Partner System ( you can now choose your partner, partners won´t use attacks the enemy is immune against) and Smirk ( Smirk no longer grants insane evasion and now there is move that can remove it), so they are not the reason Gaston is the considered to be the worst partner. The Reason is his unique gimmick of jumping in during your turn to attack enemies and he uses your Press Turns while doing so. While he won´t attack enemies immune to Physical, later gains Pierce to all his attacks ( Pierce from IVA onwards ignores Res/Null/Drain/Reflect) and his attacks do a LOT of damage, he can still Miss. If he misses during his interruption it will take away two of your valuable Press Turns ( at best ) or he will miss on his third attack, which means you just lost your entire turn and chance to deal damage or heal. This turns harder fights ( especially on Apocalypse Difficulty ) into a a game of "Hope Gaston doesen´t jump in at the worst possible moment and ruin everything", should you choose to use him.
There's a reason why Walter is memed for that Minotaur fight. Do you know how many times I reloaded so I got one of the others after I got wiped? Haven't played apocalypse yet, but I'm glad they nerfed smirk, not so glad they still have a party with high risk.
@@FubukiTheIcyKing You reloaded alot probably. Also IVA also made it so certain moves have a unique property when used while Smirking. For Example Light and Dark Skills now deal damage and have a chance to instakill while Smirking. Atleast you´re never forced to use Gaston, unless you go for a Title ( Achievement ) which requires him to participate in 100 Battles.
@@secondmemelord8859 Oh that's neat. I need to finish my run of IV neutral so I can play apocalypse. I reloaded 25 times since it kept giving me Walter.
Glad Gau didn't make your list. I thought he was bugged, as he would keep spamming the same move after once selected, until knocked out. Literally a berserker/blue mage(apprentice?). They could easily fix it to where he will use monster abilities for three turns, and be done. I always had him tune as the Behemoth, and have him just spam Meteor...
Oh, CPU-controlled allies... Normally I'd think of Fire Emblem's green units screwing me over, but I've got another numbskull on my mind: *bad Multi Battle partners in Pokémon.* Specifically in hacks like Unbound or Radical Red where Multi Battles end up being critical to progression. I will never let Brendan live down having his Exploud Boomburst when the only things on the field were my Raichu and Archer's Aegislash, when I *know* he had Flamethrower!
One of the things I adore about Dragon Quest? Status effects are actually useful. Until they aren't. That said? Kiryl and his infamous AI doesn't seem as bad as I assumed. Mostly. At least he still heals allies at critical HP. Normally.
Have you ever played the Etrian Odyssey series? The battle system is more or less Dragon Quest's, with Ailments getting even more attention (which includes working on bosses)
On the note of instant death attacks being useless in the player's hands - may I introduce you to Teleport and Toad in the original NES Final Fantasy II and all of its remakes? Teleport, which warps your party outside a dungeon outside of battle, is an instant death spell of sorts IN battle. Toad ends up doing essentially the same thing. But here's the fun part - they are NOT Death-elemental, but Matter-elemental (an element exclusive to FFII). And I can't tell you how many enemies are vulnerable to Matter-elemental spells - including most of the bosses! In fact, there's maybe a dozen-and-a-half enemies out of the hundreds in the game that are immune to Teleport and Toad, and most of them are undead, which makes them vulnerable to the Life spell. If you take the time to grind Teleport and Toad spell up to 4, and then consistently use them throughout the game, as well as use light armors whenever possible, you'll be able to essentially abuse them through roughly 98% of the game's random encounters, and 95% of the boss fights.
4:04 I didn't know about that and I actually let out a "Such horror!" x) That DQXI tidbit about your AI companion cheating is interesting to me, never thought AI companions in an RPG would actually have a perk In my disdain for probability in RPGs, I've grown fond of conditional effects, especially for instant death. The Megaten franchise has examples of it, with its Light and Dark elements which become lethal if the target is weak to the element itself in newer games, or the occasional spells that erase enemies that are afflicted by specific ailments.
Yeah I'm glad they added conditions to the instadeath in SMT. Too many times in Strange Journey have I had the main character iced because I hadn't gotten death proof, or was equipped to deal with something else. Especially the final boss on neutral that can instakill someone....
What might have been forgiven as merely shortsighted in the early NES days is even more baffling in a PS2 RPG- Persona 3. Tales of Mitsuru's stupidity in particular are the stuff of legends. Though at least she doesn't waste rare consumable items!
If you play the remake, they let you control character again (and they seem less stupid? Honestly, there's no reason not to play the remake (with the patch that restore Character Dialogue, because DQIV and stupid decisions runs hand in hand...)
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740Square seems to have a track record of messing with dialogue that was just fine instead of just proofreading it. Aka Final fantasy vi rereleases keep using the updated script instead of the Woosley one.
@@FubukiTheIcyKing Oh no. The script is fine. They actually removed an entire part of the game for the DS release (Party Chat, which allowed characters to react to the events of the game), because they worried it wouldn't sell enough, and it wouldn't be worth it. Thankfully, the game sold well enough Zach future games kept Party Chat. And it was added back to the smartphone port of the DS Remake. There's a fan patch that adds the translation of the phone port to the DS game. So, in short, the Western version of DQIV DS lack (more than) half of the script compared to the Japanese version.
@@FubukiTheIcyKing Woolsey is infamous for messing with the script and getting things wrong, of course with the forced NoA censorship rules in place as well. The current translations of the older FF games seen in modern ports are FAR more accurate to the original Japanese script and even kept in the iconic dub-exclusive lines like "son of a sandworm!" and "that spoony bard!" Also the spell names in the SNES versions of the FF titles are outdated and inaccurate. Fire/Fira/Firaga is called boring Fire1, Fire2, and Fire3, Holy is called Pearl, etc.
+like for this video ^^ And fun fact, Kiryl is also playable in Dragon quest Heroes (a spin-off in Dynasty Warriors style) and his ultimate-move/coup de grace (when he's in hyper/tension mode) is...he try to cast Thwack but the "but it doesn't work" message appear, he try over and over again, until we see many "but it doesn't work" message boxes but he's stomping by frustration (destroying all the messages boxes) and cast...a upgrade-version of his favorite spell (a super-thwack i guess) deal damages to ennemies in front of him it's pretty funny and fourth-wall break :3 i was no aware of the fact he's love cast this instant-death spell, even when it's useless against bosses ^^; concerning instant-death spell...i do remember ultimate things from FFVI and FFVII (Setzer's Joker Death and Cait Sith's Game Over) or he can KILL even supreme boss,etc...
Yeah there are some other OP instant kill attacks in games that can instantly kill bosses. Sietzer's Death Joker in FF6, Cait Sith's Game Over in FF7, 1M+ Gil Yojimbo in FFX, Gaea Rage in SMT5, (deals 16,000 damage in a game where 999 is the HP cap) Dark Energy and Zodiark's God Eater from FFXII, etc.
From almost the dawn of videogaming there have been fools who dreamed of forcing the player to work with AI. This often pops up not just in RPG's but also strategy games with disastrous results more often then not but the fools have continued to try. At least it gives us something to laugh at and modern AI can be useful sometimes. But I will always assume game designers that force this silliness are more interested in their "Vision" then making a fun and working game until proven wrong.
This is what I call 'Miitopia syndrome'. It's exactly as you described as in FFIV, where you can only control the party leader: and if they're not there, the fight is on complete autobattle. Thankfully, the AI is smart enough to keep using good attacks and fortunately, Clerics won't spam their instakill on bosses: they use their (already decent) physical attack, heal somebody, or use their better Aura move, if they have it, which is a good magic attack. So the verdict? Good AI can really make a game better. Just enough to simulate real humans. No wasted damage or turns, and good gameplay really makes life better.
I would definitely play a game that was about sequence breaking. It's really just a way of turning the boss from a test of coordination into a puzzle. 'How can I go through this game in a way that makes it easiest for me?' That's always a sign of a good video game. Yes, you can charge up to the final boss armed with nothing but a rusty sabre and prevail by sheer skill at arms, or you can do a hundred other errands and come back to him wielding a nuclear flame thrower.
I don't even play DQ4 and I knew EXACTLY what this was about. I like the DQ series because unlike Final Fantasy, there is more to do than Attack/Attack/Attack/Heal repeat that many of them do. I loved being able to put thought into my fights because if I just wanted to spam attacks, I wouldn't play an RPG, I would play a shooter. I like clerics over wizards just because I prefer utility over raw power... if I wanted to cast the same spell over and over again, I'd just play a fighter. I like having actual strategy and just not spamming the same thing repeatedly, with my defense/status/etc. abilities never actually being used. I liked DQ3 because I could be proactive and just use Speed Up, Sleep, and Surround because the party takes less damage and eats. I also remember DQ3 priests having a different class of damage spells also. I have no idea why DQ4's priest is "Final Fantasy Cure Bot with instant death spells he is obsessed with". I seem to recall spells belonging to "families" like elements in FF, which certain classes of enemies being more vulnerable to certain classes of status effects. This also applies to debuff spells also. I remember playing healer/White Mage, etc. since early FFXI/WoW days and people expect you to specialize in healing, laterally to the expense of everything else i.e. be a heal bot and just cast only healing spells, no buffs, no stuns, no interrupts, no damage spells even if you have extra mana and no one is dying, not even having extra HP. Everything is about being a cure slave, even at the expense of you survivability, your fun, or your sanity. It doesn't matter if using other spells would be a better option in certain situations, people want to to cure every round, so they can just pump out damage, and don't expect them to accommodate you in any way, because it's all about making the big numbers happen. Forget getting your mana back, forgetting setting up defensive buffs, everything is gogogogogo. There are people in MMOs who take healers to just sit there can cast healing spells because they don't really want to do anything else because they are casual and just sit down and rest mana even though they have other spells, unless an MMO makes them "dodge stuff", in which case healing is all they can do, because it's a glorified shooter. Playing a healer main that is actually invested in the class rather than just being the party b*tch can be a disappointing experience, because when you want to use your abilities and play your job, people don't let you because they just want to put up damage numbers. Then when I play a non-healer and get scratched by an AoE the boss does because I'm a human being with imperfect reflexes and an infallible memory, then get a nasty bleed effect, but drink every potion and use all my self-heals, and then die 5 seconds laters after I exhausted them, then instant cast Swiftcast + Raise on me. Can I ask why in the world did you give the important healing items to the cleric? The point of items is that anyone can use them. If anything happened to him (like if he got paralyzed), you would have been screwed. That's like putting all your healing potions on your cleric in D&D, and then they get petrified by a medusa, and your whole party is f*cked.
That's not just a cheat code to enhance the experience, it's a cheat code to unlock the experience. Playing this game without it is like playing a freeware version of a paid game that only gives you access to a limited set of commands. Typically if an instakill attack works against a boss, it's because of a bug. Final Fantasy Legend 1/whatever it was in Japan, some SaGa game I think, had an instakill attack that worked against nearly everything due to a game bug, which made it very useful for beating the game quickly. In the original Super Mario RPG, Geno Whirl is an attack that, if timed right, instantly kills one enemy. Naturally, it doesn't work against bosses...except for one, Exor, which it does actually work on due to an oversight. But the actual neat thing? They preserved that in the remake! It still works the same way as it did before, thereby graduating it from bug to easter egg. See, sometimes they CAN learn!
I've yet to find an RPG with AI controlled party members that didn't drive me to drink with their stupidity. Even Mass Effect, as beloved as it is, my squad mates spent most of their time face down in the dirt while Shepherd did all the work.
And that's why I never replayed and hate the "no controllable partners " in dragon warrior 4. Atlus did this in persona 3,but luckily they have never did it again
oh, i've found that in FF6, using any kind of "instant death" attack on any UNDEAD enemy actual RESTORES them to FULL health! ironically, using a "revivify" item instantly eliminates them, including at least one boss! oh, but the "X-Zone" spell, which banishes enemies to another dimension, is effective, and since it can affect ALL enemies on the battlefield, it's worth using. oh, and attacks that slice enemies to pieces, like Cyan's "cleave" ability, also work, IF they hit.
i would guess in those 2k lines of AI coding, it is list to use most damaging spell ever, and instant death is very damaging. about healing, was like that when playing tales of destiny 2 with friends, normal play was each one with his fav, but bosses i was the healer, and with me as healer he could just focus in attacking.
Right now I am thinking of the most effective OHKO attack in Pokemon series. Horn Drill, Fissure, Sheer Cold, anything else? Obviously not the moves from MODS. Bet with that kind of attacks a Nidoking can destroy a Machinedramon if the hit connects.
The final phase of the final boss casts Bounce at the start of the fight (which reflects magic). So obviously Whack would be absolutely idiotic to use at that point. That’s why he doesn’t cast it during the final phase. Still a dumb AI though…
Recommendation for tmpcig #2 my first was izanagi no okami from p5r see gargantuan gaffes 6 to find the comment. My new recommendation is mario in paper mario the thousand year door more specifically danger mario if you don't know what it is I can give more context.
please do more Dragon Quest content, this stuff is the best! I think you might find some great things to make content on in Dragon Quest 8 in particular
They actually reference Kiryl's tendency to click Whack and nothing else in one of the crossover spinoff games (I think it was one of the Warriors games, I don't remember) where Kiryl's super move is him casting Whack a buncha times and failing, only to get super angry and destroy the text boxes saying he failed, and then casts another Whack that actually works this time.
The first Heroes game, yes.
I remember seeing that and just laughed.😂
KIRYL: "Thwack! *(Fails...)* Thwack! Thwack! Thwack! Thwack! Thwack!"
*(All failed to connect.... Kiryl grows frustrated)*
"Urggggh..... BE GONE AWAY!!!"
*(Casts Kathwack... THIS ONE HITS!)*
THWACK!
THWACK! THWACK! THWACK! THWACK THWACK! THWAAACK!
Yes that sucks but then again the SNES version of DQ4 never officially left Japan so the DS remake of it was the only official English dub of the game and it DOES have Manual mode.
14:28 Fun fact, Dragon Quest Heroes actually answers this question believe it or not. If you use his Coup-de-Grâce (The special nuke), he will keep using Whack over and over again in rapid succession, and eventually gets so pissed that he just combines it all into a giant Kathwack in sheer fury.
The best part is that text boxes float around him saying that Whack failed every time he whiffed, as a further nod to his horrible ai. I loved it when I saw it for the first time.
Bonus points for Kiryl on both Dragon Quest Heroes games, where his ultimate attack is a flurry of Thwack spells that miss, with the same in-game prompts and all, but he finally has it, breaks the prompts and throws one bigger Thwack spell (Kathwack?) for massive damage to all enemies
If Persona 3 has taught me anything, it's that ai controlled party members can make a already difficult experience even worse.
Hear me out: What would you think of a game called "Incompetent Fools" where you're a Healer tasked with carrying a team of the titular fools to victory
@@OhCrapI_He That sounds like a nightmare...i love it.
@@OhCrapI_He That sounds like the Team Fortress 2 Medic experience.
@OhCrapI_He I know what I'm doing next Game Jam.
Lol Junpei and Marin Karin Mitsuro
My headcanon is that Torneko goofs off so you don't use him and he can hide safely in the wagon.
And then there’s Beelzebub’s Death Flies in SMT III Nocturne, where if you’re not immune to the element, you die.
If you are, it’ll still hurt like hell. Like “elemental-resistance-ignoring” hell.
Once you fuse him and get him on your side though, hoo boy.
Hoo, boy.
- Sojiro, P5
What I read (I think it's on the wiki. I obviously have no way to verify) is that instead of knowing everything like in other DQ games, DQIV characters are supposed to learn enemy behavior with trial and error, poorly mimicking a human player. Kyril will try (T)Whack on any enemies, and eventually he'll figure out it doesn't work if it fails enough, in theory.
Obviously, bosses are only fought once so he'll never gets the occasion to learn. Worse, each phase of the bosses is considered as a different monster! And since the final boss has, like, seven phases, he'll never gets the occasion to learn
he needs to learn faster then
The developers fixed the horrific AI blunders on the remakes of DQ4... But the damage was done as a hilarious gag on Kiryl's expense!
Such a funny yet annoying concept for a character. Reminds me of the whole 'character has one special move and uses it in every fight' trope. Also so glad to know where kiryl comes from. I first saw him in fortune street on the wii and had no idea who he was. Although he had a low ranking for cpu difficulty and now I can see why.
When I was younger I had a Pokémon battle with this kid I met at a club. He swept almost my entire team by landing 5 OHKO Fissures in a row. It was so gloriously improbable (0.2%) that I couldn’t even be mad.
iirc, in DQIV, the ai of your allies is programmed to prioritize their strongest attacks and/or spells. Since Whack and Thwack are OHKO moves, the game might be programmed so that they deal the maximum amount of damage possible, so Kiryl's ai might see that Whack and Thwack deal the most damage out of his other attacks, and prioritizes them over everything else. Also, I think the reason why he doesn't heal until someone is at critical HP is because the ai might also be programmed to not prioritize healing until an ally's HP reaches that point.
The funny thing about ohko moves in Pokémon is that their accuracy has a unique formula.they ignore evasion and accuracy stages and for every 1 level over the opponent they gain one accuracy ( opposite is also true) if you are using a level 100 vs a level 30 Mon or lower they always hit. This is granted probably the least useful time for that to happen but it’s more then some ohko attacks in RPGs can say. They are also a potential solution if an opponent has been spamming evasion stages
If memory serves, don't OHKO moves also need the user to go first, lest the enemy dodge?
@@Blayne06 no, dont think that was ever the case, but the user does need to be an equal or higher level than the opponent to use it
Seems like Torneko is the quintessential Gadabout, and that makes wonderful entertainment.
Interestingly enough, in DQIX the the whack family of spells' chance to work is based on the caster's magical mending stat. Sadly, by the time a priest's magical mending gets high enough for them to work consistently, you'll probably have unlocked other skills that are more worth your time using like solar flare. Or just have a Gladiator that hits for 500+ damage with regular attacks.
For Kiryl, there's this joke turned into his ultimate in Dragon Quest Warriors 2.
Imo Kiryl's biggest contribution to the party is Kabuff. Casting a layer of it at the start of every battle saves so much MP in the long run.
Always used him as a main healer for that reason lol. Buffs are everything
I've heard horror stories of the AI party members in Fossil Fighters Frontier. They have a bad tendency of wasting the points shared by everyone in the team to use moves. So if you pick a vivisaur that doesn't line up well with the AI controlled ones, saying they're actively hindering you would be an understatement. They're preventing you from being able to do anything in your turn!
Unsurprisingly this is one of the many reasons why Frontier is seen as the worst in the trilogy.
I only played the first game. If you mean to look me in the eye and tell me the tri-formation of vivisaurs in that game is handled by the AI in frontier, I guess I missed nothing.
@@Mecceldorf yeah, that's the second most common reaction I've seen to FF Frontiers. The first being "if only I got to play Champions instead!"
Yep that's why I prefer the first game and Champions. At least Champions for all its weird design choices let's you snap the game's difficulty over your knee with an early Super revival fossil if you get lucky/grind.
That's why I mainly used AI party members with low FP moves. That's the only way I could use high attack vivosaurs without having to worry about FP. It's such a shame too since Fossil Fighters Frontier had lots of potential with vehicle exploration and different upgrades.
Instadeath works more for the enemy than it does for the player: Unless you're playing Hero in smash than it happens when it happens!
I always treat insta-kill attacks like a last panic button, about to lose? Might aswell throw one out
In later games of the DQ series, some enemies are completely designed to be killed by it, like the squids from the sea.
10:20
Meanwhile, the amazing thing is when Kiryl/Cristo and Alena are a Savvy Guy Energetic Girl example,to which I still agree. But with Kiryl/Cristo's instant death spell attempt spam, yeah, how does that work?
For more dumb AI Companions look no further than SMTIV. In SMTIV and IV Apocalypse in addition of having your main party of the protagonist and demons, you also have AI Controlled Partners that aid you in battles. There were some big problems with this mechanic in SMTIV however. First you can´t choose your partner and they get randomly chosen at the beginning of each battle, so you can´t properly prepare around them. Second is the fact that they will attack enemies with attacks they´re immune too and while luckily they don´t away your press turns if they do so, since they attack after your turn, they may end up causing the enemy to Smirk.
Smirk is an Buff exclusive to the IV Duology and was really BS in IV. Smirking may be granted to someone if they Null/Reflect/Drain an attack, hit a weakness or land a critical. Smirk in IV grants insane evasion, weaknesses turn into neutral and the next attack is a guranteed Critical. T
his is one of the reasons Minotaur ( the first major Boss ) is so infamous, due to Walter ( He´s specializes in Fire/Physical Attacks, Minotaur nulls Fire ) using Agi on him, causing him to smirk and then proceed to murder your Party with Labrys Strike ( multi hit, HEAVY, physical attack ). You can consider it an kindness that ( most ) optional bosses turn Partners off.
For another example this time from IV Apocalypse is Gaston. IVA did improve the Partner System ( you can now choose your partner, partners won´t use attacks the enemy is immune against) and Smirk ( Smirk no longer grants insane evasion and now there is move that can remove it), so they are not the reason Gaston is the considered to be the worst partner.
The Reason is his unique gimmick of jumping in during your turn to attack enemies and he uses your Press Turns while doing so. While he won´t attack enemies immune to Physical, later gains Pierce to all his attacks ( Pierce from IVA onwards ignores Res/Null/Drain/Reflect) and his attacks do a LOT of damage, he can still Miss. If he misses during his interruption it will take away two of your valuable Press Turns ( at best ) or he will miss on his third attack, which means you just lost your entire turn and chance to deal damage or heal. This turns harder fights ( especially on Apocalypse Difficulty ) into a a game of "Hope Gaston doesen´t jump in at the worst possible moment and ruin everything", should you choose to use him.
There's a reason why Walter is memed for that Minotaur fight. Do you know how many times I reloaded so I got one of the others after I got wiped?
Haven't played apocalypse yet, but I'm glad they nerfed smirk, not so glad they still have a party with high risk.
@@FubukiTheIcyKing You reloaded alot probably.
Also IVA also made it so certain moves have a unique property when used while Smirking. For Example Light and Dark Skills now deal damage and have a chance to instakill while Smirking.
Atleast you´re never forced to use Gaston, unless you go for a Title ( Achievement ) which requires him to participate in 100 Battles.
@@secondmemelord8859 Oh that's neat. I need to finish my run of IV neutral so I can play apocalypse.
I reloaded 25 times since it kept giving me Walter.
Glad Gau didn't make your list. I thought he was bugged, as he would keep spamming the same move after once selected, until knocked out. Literally a berserker/blue mage(apprentice?). They could easily fix it to where he will use monster abilities for three turns, and be done. I always had him tune as the Behemoth, and have him just spam Meteor...
He basically behaves the same way as the enemies he mimics, so calling him stupid because of their AI wouldn't be fair.
No wonder they made that his super attack in Dragon Quest Heroes lol
In the PS1/DS remake, Kiryl will still cast Whack and Thwack on bosses, but much less often than his NES counterpart
Oh, CPU-controlled allies...
Normally I'd think of Fire Emblem's green units screwing me over, but I've got another numbskull on my mind: *bad Multi Battle partners in Pokémon.* Specifically in hacks like Unbound or Radical Red where Multi Battles end up being critical to progression.
I will never let Brendan live down having his Exploud Boomburst when the only things on the field were my Raichu and Archer's Aegislash, when I *know* he had Flamethrower!
If you never played Daikatana, all I can say is, the friendly AI does everything to hurt you, except shoot back.
"I can't leave without my buddy Superfly". Honestly that sentence is so funny to me.
One of the things I adore about Dragon Quest? Status effects are actually useful. Until they aren't.
That said? Kiryl and his infamous AI doesn't seem as bad as I assumed. Mostly. At least he still heals allies at critical HP. Normally.
Have you ever played the Etrian Odyssey series? The battle system is more or less Dragon Quest's, with Ailments getting even more attention (which includes working on bosses)
@@VonFirflirch I have. Played a tiny amount of 2, and played a good chunk of 3 and 4 each. Heck, I was frightfully impressed how potent Poison was.
@@raziyatheseeker
I imagine it's not your case, but I have a hard time going back to Dragon Quest after playing EO.
On the note of instant death attacks being useless in the player's hands - may I introduce you to Teleport and Toad in the original NES Final Fantasy II and all of its remakes?
Teleport, which warps your party outside a dungeon outside of battle, is an instant death spell of sorts IN battle. Toad ends up doing essentially the same thing. But here's the fun part - they are NOT Death-elemental, but Matter-elemental (an element exclusive to FFII). And I can't tell you how many enemies are vulnerable to Matter-elemental spells - including most of the bosses! In fact, there's maybe a dozen-and-a-half enemies out of the hundreds in the game that are immune to Teleport and Toad, and most of them are undead, which makes them vulnerable to the Life spell.
If you take the time to grind Teleport and Toad spell up to 4, and then consistently use them throughout the game, as well as use light armors whenever possible, you'll be able to essentially abuse them through roughly 98% of the game's random encounters, and 95% of the boss fights.
Final Fantasy: Aren't you glad to be in full control of your party?
4:04
I didn't know about that and I actually let out a "Such horror!" x)
That DQXI tidbit about your AI companion cheating is interesting to me, never thought AI companions in an RPG would actually have a perk
In my disdain for probability in RPGs, I've grown fond of conditional effects, especially for instant death. The Megaten franchise has examples of it, with its Light and Dark elements which become lethal if the target is weak to the element itself in newer games, or the occasional spells that erase enemies that are afflicted by specific ailments.
Yeah I'm glad they added conditions to the instadeath in SMT. Too many times in Strange Journey have I had the main character iced because I hadn't gotten death proof, or was equipped to deal with something else. Especially the final boss on neutral that can instakill someone....
Saw the thumbnail and immediately knew what you were talking about.
Kiryl is just so sure the next Whack will definitely 1-Shot the final boss this time!
What might have been forgiven as merely shortsighted in the early NES days is even more baffling in a PS2 RPG- Persona 3. Tales of Mitsuru's stupidity in particular are the stuff of legends. Though at least she doesn't waste rare consumable items!
I am on chapter 2 of DQ4 and this fills me with fear of annoyance in the final chapter
If you play the remake, they let you control character again (and they seem less stupid?
Honestly, there's no reason not to play the remake (with the patch that restore Character Dialogue, because DQIV and stupid decisions runs hand in hand...)
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740Square seems to have a track record of messing with dialogue that was just fine instead of just proofreading it. Aka Final fantasy vi rereleases keep using the updated script instead of the Woosley one.
Thankfully, the modern releases add a Follow Orders command and it's set as the default for permanent party members (read: anyone not "Level ?")
@@FubukiTheIcyKing Oh no. The script is fine.
They actually removed an entire part of the game for the DS release (Party Chat, which allowed characters to react to the events of the game), because they worried it wouldn't sell enough, and it wouldn't be worth it.
Thankfully, the game sold well enough Zach future games kept Party Chat. And it was added back to the smartphone port of the DS Remake. There's a fan patch that adds the translation of the phone port to the DS game.
So, in short, the Western version of DQIV DS lack (more than) half of the script compared to the Japanese version.
@@FubukiTheIcyKing Woolsey is infamous for messing with the script and getting things wrong, of course with the forced NoA censorship rules in place as well. The current translations of the older FF games seen in modern ports are FAR more accurate to the original Japanese script and even kept in the iconic dub-exclusive lines like "son of a sandworm!" and "that spoony bard!" Also the spell names in the SNES versions of the FF titles are outdated and inaccurate. Fire/Fira/Firaga is called boring Fire1, Fire2, and Fire3, Holy is called Pearl, etc.
Whenever I see Taloon, all that comes to my mind is HCBailly's Let's Play of DQIV. He always had such a riot playing as Taloon...
its like P3 Junpei....it didnt work the first time, maybe this time it will
+like for this video ^^
And fun fact, Kiryl is also playable in Dragon quest Heroes (a spin-off in Dynasty Warriors style) and his ultimate-move/coup de grace (when he's in hyper/tension mode) is...he try to cast Thwack but the "but it doesn't work" message appear, he try over and over again, until we see many "but it doesn't work" message boxes but he's stomping by frustration (destroying all the messages boxes) and cast...a upgrade-version of his favorite spell (a super-thwack i guess) deal damages to ennemies in front of him
it's pretty funny and fourth-wall break :3 i was no aware of the fact he's love cast this instant-death spell, even when it's useless against bosses ^^;
concerning instant-death spell...i do remember ultimate things from FFVI and FFVII (Setzer's Joker Death and Cait Sith's Game Over) or he can KILL even supreme boss,etc...
Yeah there are some other OP instant kill attacks in games that can instantly kill bosses. Sietzer's Death Joker in FF6, Cait Sith's Game Over in FF7, 1M+ Gil Yojimbo in FFX, Gaea Rage in SMT5, (deals 16,000 damage in a game where 999 is the HP cap) Dark Energy and Zodiark's God Eater from FFXII, etc.
From almost the dawn of videogaming there have been fools who dreamed of forcing the player to work with AI. This often pops up not just in RPG's but also strategy games with disastrous results more often then not but the fools have continued to try. At least it gives us something to laugh at and modern AI can be useful sometimes. But I will always assume game designers that force this silliness are more interested in their "Vision" then making a fun and working game until proven wrong.
Dragon's Dogma may be the closest that dream has ever been to be fulfilled. Pawns were really interesting as AI companions.
How nice, a DQIV character right when the DQIV spinoff game releases. Cool.
That means I missed the preorder bonus, damn it!
This is what I call 'Miitopia syndrome'. It's exactly as you described as in FFIV, where you can only control the party leader: and if they're not there, the fight is on complete autobattle. Thankfully, the AI is smart enough to keep using good attacks and fortunately, Clerics won't spam their instakill on bosses: they use their (already decent) physical attack, heal somebody, or use their better Aura move, if they have it, which is a good magic attack.
So the verdict? Good AI can really make a game better. Just enough to simulate real humans. No wasted damage or turns, and good gameplay really makes life better.
I would definitely play a game that was about sequence breaking. It's really just a way of turning the boss from a test of coordination into a puzzle. 'How can I go through this game in a way that makes it easiest for me?'
That's always a sign of a good video game. Yes, you can charge up to the final boss armed with nothing but a rusty sabre and prevail by sheer skill at arms, or you can do a hundred other errands and come back to him wielding a nuclear flame thrower.
I don't even play DQ4 and I knew EXACTLY what this was about.
I like the DQ series because unlike Final Fantasy, there is more to do than Attack/Attack/Attack/Heal repeat that many of them do. I loved being able to put thought into my fights because if I just wanted to spam attacks, I wouldn't play an RPG, I would play a shooter. I like clerics over wizards just because I prefer utility over raw power... if I wanted to cast the same spell over and over again, I'd just play a fighter. I like having actual strategy and just not spamming the same thing repeatedly, with my defense/status/etc. abilities never actually being used. I liked DQ3 because I could be proactive and just use Speed Up, Sleep, and Surround because the party takes less damage and eats. I also remember DQ3 priests having a different class of damage spells also. I have no idea why DQ4's priest is "Final Fantasy Cure Bot with instant death spells he is obsessed with".
I seem to recall spells belonging to "families" like elements in FF, which certain classes of enemies being more vulnerable to certain classes of status effects. This also applies to debuff spells also.
I remember playing healer/White Mage, etc. since early FFXI/WoW days and people expect you to specialize in healing, laterally to the expense of everything else i.e. be a heal bot and just cast only healing spells, no buffs, no stuns, no interrupts, no damage spells even if you have extra mana and no one is dying, not even having extra HP. Everything is about being a cure slave, even at the expense of you survivability, your fun, or your sanity. It doesn't matter if using other spells would be a better option in certain situations, people want to to cure every round, so they can just pump out damage, and don't expect them to accommodate you in any way, because it's all about making the big numbers happen. Forget getting your mana back, forgetting setting up defensive buffs, everything is gogogogogo.
There are people in MMOs who take healers to just sit there can cast healing spells because they don't really want to do anything else because they are casual and just sit down and rest mana even though they have other spells, unless an MMO makes them "dodge stuff", in which case healing is all they can do, because it's a glorified shooter. Playing a healer main that is actually invested in the class rather than just being the party b*tch can be a disappointing experience, because when you want to use your abilities and play your job, people don't let you because they just want to put up damage numbers.
Then when I play a non-healer and get scratched by an AoE the boss does because I'm a human being with imperfect reflexes and an infallible memory, then get a nasty bleed effect, but drink every potion and use all my self-heals, and then die 5 seconds laters after I exhausted them, then instant cast Swiftcast + Raise on me.
Can I ask why in the world did you give the important healing items to the cleric? The point of items is that anyone can use them. If anything happened to him (like if he got paralyzed), you would have been screwed. That's like putting all your healing potions on your cleric in D&D, and then they get petrified by a medusa, and your whole party is f*cked.
This trait still retains in DQM3
Just have a monster with the spells Whack and Thwack and set AI to "Show No Mercy"
This is why I didn't use Kiryl in the second half of the game (DQ4) and just stuck to the hero/heroine and the other stronger characters.
That's not just a cheat code to enhance the experience, it's a cheat code to unlock the experience. Playing this game without it is like playing a freeware version of a paid game that only gives you access to a limited set of commands.
Typically if an instakill attack works against a boss, it's because of a bug. Final Fantasy Legend 1/whatever it was in Japan, some SaGa game I think, had an instakill attack that worked against nearly everything due to a game bug, which made it very useful for beating the game quickly.
In the original Super Mario RPG, Geno Whirl is an attack that, if timed right, instantly kills one enemy. Naturally, it doesn't work against bosses...except for one, Exor, which it does actually work on due to an oversight. But the actual neat thing? They preserved that in the remake! It still works the same way as it did before, thereby graduating it from bug to easter egg. See, sometimes they CAN learn!
Yep final fantasy legend 1 the final boss was somehow not immune to the chainsaw's instakill. Which you gotta admit is pretty metal.
I've yet to find an RPG with AI controlled party members that didn't drive me to drink with their stupidity. Even Mass Effect, as beloved as it is, my squad mates spent most of their time face down in the dirt while Shepherd did all the work.
And that's why I never replayed and hate the "no controllable partners " in dragon warrior 4.
Atlus did this in persona 3,but luckily they have never did it again
Thanks god they made it controllable on both Portable and Reload version
oh, i've found that in FF6, using any kind of "instant death" attack on any UNDEAD enemy actual RESTORES them to FULL health!
ironically, using a "revivify" item instantly eliminates them, including at least one boss!
oh, but the "X-Zone" spell, which banishes enemies to another dimension, is effective, and since it can affect ALL enemies on the battlefield, it's worth using.
oh, and attacks that slice enemies to pieces, like Cyan's "cleave" ability, also work, IF they hit.
As a Dragon Quest Monsters player… yep the AI sucks sometimes. All too often have I had a monster kill another one when I’m trying to scout it.
i would guess in those 2k lines of AI coding, it is list to use most damaging spell ever, and instant death is very damaging.
about healing, was like that when playing tales of destiny 2 with friends, normal play was each one with his fav, but bosses i was the healer, and with me as healer he could just focus in attacking.
4:09 isn't that the dude who reflects physical?
I wonder if DQ has a one-eyed elephant somewhere in there, too
cool, your video editing is improving!! keep up the good work!! i'm proud of you!
Right now I am thinking of the most effective OHKO attack in Pokemon series. Horn Drill, Fissure, Sheer Cold, anything else? Obviously not the moves from MODS.
Bet with that kind of attacks a Nidoking can destroy a Machinedramon if the hit connects.
I'll stick to guaranteed attacks
1 misstep can equal defeat
Megami Tensei is probably the only series I know that does Instant Death spells any good.
I love DQ4 but I will NEVER play the NES version entirely for this reason.
The final phase of the final boss casts Bounce at the start of the fight (which reflects magic). So obviously Whack would be absolutely idiotic to use at that point. That’s why he doesn’t cast it during the final phase.
Still a dumb AI though…
Dragon Quest spell names are so silly
Recommendation for tmpcig #2 my first was izanagi no okami from p5r see gargantuan gaffes 6 to find the comment. My new recommendation is mario in paper mario the thousand year door more specifically danger mario if you don't know what it is I can give more context.
Word of advice with those instant death spells. Play Final Fantasy V. Level 5 Doom is AWESOME.
please do more Dragon Quest content, this stuff is the best! I think you might find some great things to make content on in Dragon Quest 8 in particular
Horn Drill etc have low accuracy. Almost as low as Focus Blast.
I bet you kinda hate Mitsuru in Persona 3 (As a party member) because of her constant use of Marin Karin.
i have only experienced 1 single use of marin karin once in my playthrough
@@reginangel_official You used different tactics or was she acting freely?
7:37 phrasing
Thanks
They fixed this in the IOS version of this game .