Risking My Life To Settle A Physics Debate
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2021
- Even some physics professors say this craft breaks the laws of physics. This video is sponsored by Kiwico, For 50% off your first month of any subscription crate from KiwiCo (available in 40 countries!) head to www.kiwico.com/Veritasium50
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A HUGE thanks to Rick and Neil for letting me drive Blackbird. Check out Rick's RUclips Channel for more in depth videos and explanations on going faster than the wind downwind -- ve42.co/Rick
Gene Nagata made the shoot possible. If you’re a video nerd like me, check out his channel, Potato Jet: / potatojet .
Xyla Foxlin for made the model cart used in this video. Xyla builds amazing things like rockets and canoes, check it out! / xylafoxlin
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References
Jack Goodman's RUclips video -- ve42.co/Goodman
Rick's treadmill footage -- ve42.co/Treadmill
Rick's multiple explanations of how Blackbird works -- ve42.co/DDWFTTW
Forum discussions -- ve42.co/forum Blog -- ve42.co/blog1 and retraction ve42.co/BlogRetraction
Gaunaa, M., Øye, S., & Mikkelsen, R. F. (2009). Theory and design of flow driven vehicles using rotors for energy conversion. In EWEC 2009 Proceedings online EWEC
Md. Sadak Ali Khan, Syed Ali Sufiyan, Jibu Thomas George, Md. Nizamuddin Ahmed. Analysis of Down-Wind Propeller Vehicle. International Journal of Scientific and Research Publications, 3, 4. (April 2013) ISSN 2250-3153. (www.ijsrp.org)
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Special thanks to Patreon supporters: Bill Linder, Paul Peijzel, Crated Comments, Anna, Mac Malkawi, Michael Schneider, Oleksii Leonov, Jim Osmun, Tyson McDowell, Ludovic Robillard, Jim buckmaster, fanime96, Juan Benet, Ruslan Khroma, Robert Blum, Richard Sundvall, Lee Redden, Vincent, Marinus Kuivenhoven, Alfred Wallace, Arjun Chakroborty, Joar Wandborg, Clayton Greenwell, Pindex, Michael Krugman, Cy 'kkm' K'Nelson, Sam Lutfi, Ron Neal
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Thanks to James Lincoln for building the initial prototypes for a model blackbird.
Written by Derek Muller, James Lincoln, and Petr Lebedev
Animation by Mike Radjabov and Ivy Tello
Filmed by Gene Nagata, Derek Muller, Trenton Oliver, AJ Fillo and Emily Zhang
Edited by Trenton Oliver
Music from Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.com
Additional video supplied by Getty Images
Produced by AJ Fillo
If you want more detail on the explanation here it is:
1. The car is powered only by the wind. There is no motor or batteries of any kind.
2. The propeller does NOT spin like a windmill. The wind does NOT push it and make it turn.
3. Instead the wheels are geared to the propeller to turn it the opposite way, like a fan, so it pushes air backwards.
4. To start the vehicle the wind simply pushes on the whole vehicle (like a block of styrofoam) and gets it moving.
5. The wheels are turning so they turn the propeller in the opposite direction to how the wind is pushing it.
6. The prop is pushing air back so air pushes the prop forwards, accelerating the car.
7. Once you get up to wind speed there is no apparent wind on the vehicle. If the prop were spun like a windmill this would mean no more thrust. But, since the prop is operating like a fan, it still accelerates air backwards, generating thrust.
8. You can go faster than wind speed continuously because even when going faster than the wind, the prop can still accelerate air backwards (in the car's frame of reference) generating thrust. In a stationary frame of reference you would see that the wind behind the propellor is slower than the surrounding air. So it's clear that the energy is coming from the wind.
FAQ: If power is coming from the wheels to turn the prop, why doesn't that slow down the wheels more than it gets the prop to push back?
A: Because the wheels are moving over the ground much faster than the prop is moving through the air (because there's a tailwind).
Example:
Let's say the car is going 12m/s in a 10m/s tailwind, so faster than the wind (note the prop will be moving through an apparent headwind of 2m/s).
Power = Force x Velocity
Let's say the chain applies a drag force of 100N on the wheels to drive the prop. This means we're taking power from the wheels = FxV = 100N x 12m/s = 1200W
If we apply this power to the fan, it can create a force of F = P/V = 1200W / 2m/s = 600N
Admittedly I've assumed no losses, but even if we waste half the power, we'd still get 300N of thrust which is more than the 100N of drag the prop adds to the wheels. The key is that we're harvesting power at higher speed, lower force, and deploying it at lower speed, higher force (which is only possible because we have a tailwind - in still air this wouldn't work because the relative velocity of the wheels over the ground would be exactly the same as the relative velocity of the prop through the air).
Nicely done Derek (from the co-designer/builder of the Blackbird)
There appeared to be gears for shifting. Is there an optimal reduction/force conversion?
Good explanations. Just one niggle: in point 4 you say "To start the vehicle the wind simply pushes on the whole vehicle". In fact even at the start, with the vehicle stationary on the ground, the forward force of the air on the prop is greater than the backward force of the ground on the wheels, due to the gearing ratio. So there's no need for "bluff body" to self start.
Love from India
It was cool!
"That's great in practice, but how does it work in theory?"
This will be the most brilliant comment of them all.
great comment!
You win the Internet today
bark bark!
Elite comment my friend bravo
"I expect a lot of pushback in the comments." That's okay, this thing is driven by pushback.
Also "Keep it civil". Sod that, I'm getting the police involved ;)
@@EscapeMCP what?
No, it's driven by pushforward
@@LethalChicken77 Pushforward gets it started, but it's the pushback that provides the motive force to turn the prop.
@@unknownhacker7052 if he is breaking the laws of physics then obviously the police should write him a ticket.
I was blown away that so many physicists called it fake or impossible.
you were blown away
Don’t be. - Copernicus
same
The reason I left university.
@@TheRodmena A flunky who uses any excuse to make themself feel better. Lol.
People disagreeing and attempting to disprove each other is how Science happens. Else we get people who believe in bs without questioning it.
This is totally the post-apocalyptic extraplanetary desert science-fantasy vehicle of unfathomable awesomeness.
I'm pretty sure I remember this race/chase scene from the second MaddMaxx movie??😜
Henji😅
So is your comment
And it will fit perfectly with my zombie swords In my apocalypse-prepared beg
You nailed the best comment, I'd love to see it in Dune or The Martian Chronicles
When your online argument with random people is so heated you ended up building a vehicle that seems to defy logic....
Just a few steps above "I am trained in gorilla warfare"
Was the guy who made it from florida?
Just another day on Reddit
"Source: dude, trust me" took personally
It's like a more sane version of the flat earther who built his own rocket (and ended up killing himself) and with actual scientific basis of course
It's not breaking the laws of physics, it's breaking the laws of understanding.
Yes
To the ignorant.
Otherwise it's just intriguing.
Yes, this.
If it looks like it breaks the laws of physics, then we don't understand that particular part of physics enough.
This!
Preach.
As a windsurfer already going (much) faster than wind while sailing sidewind seems magic, but the physic involved it's not so difficult in the end: just some vectors. The very brilliant thing here is to have made a device that can go "sidewind" while going downwind.
I have watched 3 videos about this phenomenon now trying to understand the underlying principle / the idea behind it. I didn't really get it. You put it into two beautiful sentences and I realized what's going on. Great! Thanks!
@@narrenmagie That's the spiral cartoon at the beginning of the video. It showed it quite clearly but it didn't verbally explain it explicitly.
Windsurfer can go faster than wind but not in wind direction. If you starts going down too much - you lost your power and sail stops to pull you futher.
thats why maximum speead are reached at 120dergre from wind, but not 180.
@@user-bi6iw9ng8j To be clear, this is what the OP was saying; it's not in opposition to it.
Even though I know it works and have sailed a small bermuda rigged boat into the wind faster than the wind blowing the other way... still makes my head hurt thinking about wy it works.
Now just give it a few years and we will have the first-ever cylinder earthers.
Please no, the flat earthers are enough 😭
@@Thomas_York Yeah, they're a lot of fun! :P Now, imagine them arguing with the cylinder earthers! 😂
a few more years with the huge mining equipment and it might take a cylindrical shape
Sending this video to my mom! She’ll be so proud of me..... for once.....
Great work on the video man!
Yeah. But I'm sure she'll still love you just the same. LOL!
"Potato Mom here, proud of you son. Now, When will you get a real job?" /s
Asian problems I guess
Your mother and I have always been proud of you!
"If I put two sailboats, that's a prop" that explanation was mind-blowing.
It was at that moment that I understood his logic.
Yeah that is by far my favorite explanation for propellers ever
Well its a rough clumsy metaphor. In the two sailboat model, theres no direct communication or action reaction between them.
A less visually stunning explanation is that the prop acts as a sail, although in this case, an active sail rather than a reactive one, and that its spinning is exxientially the equivalent of tacking a boat into the wind. Instead of changing the direction of the vehicle as a whole it channels that energy into an axel around whice spins the prop. The prop, you cant think of it as a reverse sail, grabs air and changes its direction and velocity, gaining some in the process.
The change in direction of a boat tacking is now the rotation of the prop.
only that this analogy Cannot apply because it requires the boat(s) to Not move in the same speed and direction as the wind itself which the wheeled vehicle is doing. please forget all about the boats, they should never have mentioned the boats. just think about the model on the treadmill, specifically on startup, imagine you are only holding/pushing the model with a finger (reallife wind is your finger) then see what happens...
For me, sailboats traveling faster than the wind is way more counterintuitive than the propellers absorbing wind energy that Derek explained towards the end of the video.
Do you guys understand how sailboats go fast without understanding Navier-Stokes equation or some equivalent sophisticated fluid dynamics?
The best part is even when they had a working model people on the internet told them it was impossible. If you have an idea you think will work don't let the internet stop you.
stan lee quote
The reasoning that propelled him to make a working model was the same reasoning that was preventing people from accepting it as true. If it didn't need to be seen to be believed, people would have just taken their word for it.
They say perpetual motion is impossible, but then, right from electrons to planets and stars and galaxies, everything is in motion...perpetually. We need to change how we look at things.
There is a lot of stuff on the internet that is faked. I trust Derek. He has a reputation for an Element of Truth.
he didn't make working model ,,,@@Frankovelli
As a yacht racer and captain it took me 25 years to accept and understand apparent wind and going faster than the wind. So as a base level I think I already understand more than your average person. But I did have to watch every second to understand how this works. Mind still boggles.
This with the tremendous drag of pulling the hull through the water! It is indeed mind boggling.
Lazy Physics Teachers: "Can't be done."
Crazy Desert man: "Hold my beer."
Physicists should be skeptical of a claim like this without a mathematical or physical model to demonstrate that the claim is true. So, perhaps an appropriately skeptical physics professor rather than a "lazy" one. ;-)
Hahahaha
Sounds like Marty may be a physicist
I think the criticism against the professor was more to do with what they had to say about the treadmill.
In this case, "Hold my Heineken".. the dude was wearing it
everyone: the earth is a sphere
flat earthers: the earth is flat
this guy: imagine the earth is a cylinder
Astronaut 1: Wait, it's all cylinders?
Astronaut 2: 🔫 Always has been!
Earth is L O N G
Welcome to the l o n g Earth society
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!
nah the earth is an irregularly shaped ellipsoid. No i am not fun at parties. what's a party anyway ?
I had the same problem happen to me in a middle school science class… teacher asked if a plane could lift off if it was on a treadmill going backwards as fast as the plane going forwards. If the speed came from the propellers and not the wheels then it shouldn’t matter if the wheels were turning backwards…
I was the only one in class saying the plane would lift off. Interesting thing (taught me a lot about people) is that I got threats and was even on the receiving end of violence when I would not change my stance.
When we watched a mythbusters video that showed the plane did lift off they still wouldn’t believe and continued to threaten and bully me.
Perhaps the most dangerous people in our society are the ones who think they know and will not listen.
It will only lift of if there is enough friction between plane and treadmill, because only then the props can move enough air around the wings without the plane going forward. I think...
When the violence reaches the stable state of full development, its initial cause becomes irrelevant. In other words, people just like to kick someone's ass, and proving them wrong makes the situation even worse.
i dont quite know if im understanding it right, do you mean the plane is standing still in comparison to someone not on the treadmill? or is it moving? because my understanding of lift is when you have air flowing over and under the wing and if you arent moving through air you dont have lift, the treadmil isnt moving the air only the ground. im confused here.
edit:
so i watched the video from myth busters. the plane is moving through the air so obviously the plane will take off. however, the question makes it seem like the plane wont have any relative speed thus obviosly it wont take off. the question is bad. the plane in myth busters takes off because it has wheels, and the forward thrust is stonger than the backwards pull. if the aircraft was designed to fly slower and has a weaker engine than the car could pull under it the plane couldn't fly that is also if the aircraft has no enertia or the wheels have alot of friction. frankly the whole thing is just a trick question.
@@yujinhikita5611 Yes, the whole thing is about analyzing the mechanics and realizing, that most of the energy of the treadmill would be lost, so propellers would produce enough force to overcome it, but this applies only to actually existing planes put on reasonably feasible treadmills, but not all the theoretical objects and conditions we could possibly test. This makes the question quite pointless.
The plane can take off if it has sufficient forward speed relative to the air. How fast the wheels are moving is inconsequential, unless it is on a treadmill moving so fast that they burn up while most of the weight is still on them.
Once you mentioned the "fan driven by the wheel" it really starts to make sense. Imagine that the fan is just a giant sail, then it would go down at wind speed; and by converting the energy at the wheel to the fan it gets this additional oomph that pushes it faster.
sail size no matter if there is no wind that blow to it. When you moving at wind speed downwind - apparent wind from moving forward fully compensate wind and in propellers will be only apparent wind from its rotation. But there is drag in propellers so it will slow down, but no energy comes from wind and car will slow down till wind stars push it again. So it can't move faster. It it moving faster - aparent wind from moving with aparent wind from rotating - creates backward lift in propellers and it again slow downs.
The only way how it is possible (and we see it in video) - if wind is slow down - car some time will move faster and slows down to wind speed.
@@user-bi6iw9ng8j Nope. The wind doesn't slow down in the video. The wind is able to accelerate the car to a speed that is FASTER than the wind itself.
@@famiguy4533Then why didn’t they show the actual wind speed during the demonstration? All they showed was the direction. If the wind dropped from 15mph to 12mph, that would explain the change of the flag on the front.
Literally all they needed was a cheap speedometer and wind speed gauge to prove it works. And they didn’t use them. It’s fake and Derek fell for it.
But it's not taking the energy from the wheel. If it has, the wheel would slow down. What Derek explained is that it's actually taking the energy from the wind, slowing IT down.
@@ShaharHarshuv The propellors cutting into the air in front and pushing it backwards like a fan would, seems to be the faster than wind addition.
Experiments made out of spite to prove people wrong is the best kind of science
correct
correct
correct
correct
I think the initial concept was not to prove people wrong. The initial one was purely to come up with a vehicle design which will take it faster than the wind.
However, as always in scientific research, there will be critiques, negative reviews, etc. That's what you see as "out of spite to prove people wrong". No, it's not out of spite to prove people wrong. It's part of their research to prove that their design works.
Anyways, their research does have promising future. It might add and build a foundation for further development on non-fossil fuel wind-powered transport vehicles. Going faster than the wind is a big deal.
"JUST GO WITH WHAT FEELS LIKE IS SLOWING YOU DOWN"
SCIENCE!!!!!!!!
This deserves more like...
physics!!!
Science isn't an exact science.
Better. It's engineering. Prototype engineering.
*engineering
8:05 was my absolute favorite part of the video. jumping from an intuition to an abstraction to a mechanical solution. amazing stuff
Always love when people prove other “know it alls” wrong
Fax. But you gotta love these know it alls. They help these geniuses push the human race forward.
I love comments from "know it alls" where you can clearly tell no research was done at all...
@@TeIwiNgaroRameka Ah, yes the "I looked it up" people. Or the "I think that's true" people
It is glorious to watch.
this is going to become a trick problem on a physics exam.
It already has been used for that in a physics contest environment by a group of physics teachers.
@@brianbeasley7270 were you in that group of physics teachers? something tells me maybe.
@@von... I could be wrong, but I think he's referring to the video. The thing is built and argued about by a group of physics teachers if I recall correctly.
I think "Airplane on a treadmill" is already a common physics argument and this seems like a variation on that theme.
Or the bonus question which is also usually the trick question
The inventor must have been grinning so hard in that shot where he's holding the wind sock. Basically got the best shot possible with great equipment that he was right all along.
And distributed to a large audience, with a non-neglible part being scientifically literate.
If you look closely in the slo-mo shot, you can see that in fact, he has a huge grin, haha.
Literal picture perfect slowmo windsock vs telltale
"That'll finally show them internet trolls and professors!"
Lord Brabazon is the inventor of the auto gyro rig. He had a boat with one on in 1934 and proved this worked back then.
Amazing. One of the best things I've seen for a while👍. Absolutely loved it.
This setup is an active sail(s) combined with wills paired by an accurate rotation ratio
I like to see if some telltale thing is placed behind the fan
this fan is redirecting a large volume of air in another direction in a cone shape which a blackbird in the center of it
This system will work as long as the wheels are on the ground.
Rick explained how it worked, clear in minutes 8:00 to 8:30.
I like large Valium
@@JaceDeanLove Me too bruh. Me too.
So this is basically,
"This one trick will make your *Air Propelled Vehicle* go faster than the surrounding wind. Scientists HATE him!"
But it works.
you mean redditors
Intense skepticism and hate are very different things. Skepticism helps fuel the crucible in which new science is forged. If an idea makes it out intact, it’ll be lauded - not hated.
@@josiaserad6574 it’s a reference to internet advertisements trying to scam people
Awesome!!
@Hope Beattie nice pun
physicist, "nope not gonna work"
engineer, "Imma assume the earth is like a cylinder"
Oh how the tables have turned
Oh how the turn tables.......have
Who is a real scientist now, HUH?
Same engineer "also lets assume pi=3"
@@MsBelenkas easier to memorize
Oh I finally get this. The wings turn because you move forwards. The wings then generate lift in the forwards direction which makes the wings spin faster. Nice
I love how simple questions and problems produces so beautiful answers and solutions. What a time to be alive
Damn the explanation with the two sailboats was amazing.
I agree that's when it clicked for me. Once we imagine the boats spiraling around the cylindrical earth, we can lock the boats in place and now the earth is spinning. Congratulations! You've made a torque!
@@terbo2000 it was like that moment when you realise 💡
It was kinda sneaky, in a good way. Oops high jacked your brain.
I still don't understand how boats travel faster than the wind. But knowing they can made that explanation a winner.
No. That explanation is 2 separate vehicles tacking. The geometry looks the same, but the physics is wrong.
Using the wind to blow the body of the vehicle, and the prop pushing, works fine
the two boats on a cylinder acting like a propeller! That's amazing
Right!
5 feet apart
yes that was incredible
Physicist: How do I figure out how this works? Oh right what if the earth were a cylinder?
Us: wtf?
New plots/mechanism for sci-fi
Wish I was creative enough for it though
Very interesting, it’s hard to believe but you did a good job explaining and proving it. It looks like a fun home project!
if this really working - the faster you going - the more power you get. So it should accelerate more and more ... but it doesn't
This is probably my favorite episode. I fully understand how it works, and that it does work. Yet, It still boggles my mind.
lol true inventor spirit: _"how do I stop this?"_
_"you, uuh... I dunno, push the lever."_
_"which lever?"_
_"the one that stops it!"_
If he turns on the opposite side of the wind, then it should stop.
But he has short time to jump out before it start again 😬😬
Ah yes the floor is made out of floor
It's the equivalent of gow4 when kratos says
Kratos: find deer
Atreus: where?
kratos: in the direction of deer
Krunk push the lever.... WRONG LEVER....LOL
@Creativity Forever ✔ I probably used sub bots and that's literally a fake verification mark next to your name
"It's a little unbalanced, isn't it?"
The entire propellor threatening to crush down on Derrick
Very British of him, despite not being one
@@ZaiyadR BRI'ISH
@@ZaiyadR Is a fellow Aussie though so close enough! As are his kids now
@@InvadersDie that’s northern English. Not southern English. It is pronounced British
I watched a couple of videos on why wind turbines have three blades. I feel like this vehicle needed a three-blade prop.
Another way to think of this is in terms of air pressure acting on the wing surfaces of the propeller it may make more sense. A sail boat going straight down wind reaches its maximum speed when the force from the difference in pressure from the back to the front of the sale equals that of the drag of the boat.
By using the forward motion to drive the propeller from the wheels the pressure at the back of the propeller stays higher than if it were not rotating. Therefore, a pressure difference (and therefore a force) between the front and back of the propeller remains even above the wind speed.
I think this is the part that people can't understand. The turning of the prop increases as the speed increases so the prop is always pushing against the wind and always has a net force backwards. It is not a sail other than when going slowly , nor is it a windmill catching the wind and rotating because of it. It will only stop accelerating when the air resistance of the speed of the vehicle and internal friction exceeds the push of the propeller.
So elusive to grasp the concept; to be honest I couldn't teach it so I'm not sure I really get it even when I'm sure I've finally gotten it. 'Props' to the idea-man.
PS: I'm greatly relieved the title wasn't misleading, not that I wanted you in danger, but I'm glad both your well-being and integrity are healthy.
"I am not a stupid person, but i cannot understand" is now my new favorite quote
Turns out, the two are not mutually exclusive.
That was my favorite of the forum comments. No blowharding or trying to disprove things, just an earnest acknowledgment of not understanding.
@@DoctorMagoo111 thank you random dude on the internet with a blank profile pic with a W on it.
@@n0us. D*
While i´m... well fairly smart.. i think the explanation was quite good and .. while its not obvious, it make sense at least to me.
There is still energy to take out of the wind, even at higher then wind speed, but you would need a reference that is still lower than wind speed. The wheels make the reference of the prop lower than wind speed make it possible for the wind to push the vehicle over wind speed.
The wind is not really pushing on the vehicle, it pushes on the reference speed of the prop
"Derek slow down"
Derek: *I am speed*
Ca-chow!
Imagine Jeremy Clarkson at the wheel?
@@volo870 imagine Richard Hammond at the wheel: How to total a one-of-a-kind vehicle?
4th comment I am speed enough to be 4th I am as speed as the 4th attempt
Ka mbn
That's so good!
I'm going to discuss it with my physics teacher for sure!
You tube recommended videos hit a home run. Amazing video. Very educational. I love this.
“Is it safe? It feels makeshift.”
The hallmark of any proper, reliable machine.
It looks very Mad Maxesque.
What real science always looks like.
@@celebrim1 Lmao, that's true.
Sounds like progress to me
*Mercedes drivers getting behind the wheel of a BMW*
"Slow it down derek!"
Derek: *"i'm speed"*
Dude was an absolute maniac. I thought he legit went insane when the camera shot showed him completely unfazed, then crack a smile.
**GOTTA GO FAST!**
I HATE people that HATE other people. The comment I respond to did not spread HATE. That is good. BUT! I get a lot of HATE comments on my amazing videos and I HATE it. Please don't start spreading HATE. Do I have to HATE you too, dear jerr
lmao thats exactly what I thought to myself when I saw that
@@AxxLAfriku Just hate yourself and then the world will be cool!
The best explanation here I think is the sailboat example when introducing Lift. A plane takes off and gains vertical velocity with 0 (relative) wind in the vertical direction. It is gained solely from traveling horizontally down the runway. Because the wing can deflect horizontal air downward.
That is what is happening here.
At exactly wind speed, the propeller is still rotating. It is moving perpendicular to the air collecting the air particles and deflecting them backwards.
GREAT video great man build this Idea, as a aerospace engineer always wonder there is wind 🍃 flow with great amount of kinetic energy and this says and this concept explains it well and the propeller too
This broke my mind until you showed the sail boats in a cylindrical world. The creator explained it the best way, your addition of the animation helped tremendously. 👍🏼
The wind drove the sales on the cylinder earth but the wheels drove the propeller to push against the wind. Sales don't push wind and they used a propeller like a plane trying to take off going in the same direction as the wind.
It's also a complete red herring if you pay attention to the direction of rotation. It's a prop, not a turbine.
@@Goblineng they said in the video that the wind pushes the car, and the wheels drive the prop, but its geared up to make the prop spin faster, which to me seems fake because that would be a perpetual motion machine
@The Ardent J so, the wind is pushing the vehicle the same way a plane is blown on when it faces with wind and turns on it's propellers to start moving faster than the wind.
@@Sp00ns655 the creator says it's a prop. The wind doesn't push the vehicle the whole time, it helps turn the sails into a prop.
As a sailor and physicist, the only one thing, that drives me crazy about this is that I didn't have this idea myself. The cylinder earth is brilliant!
Agreed - it's one of those rare moments of insight that really epitomises for me the beauty of physics.
That is a really beauty, a cylinder earth being a spiral reference frame. French chef kiss.
I'm not a physicist, but the idea of the cylinder earth made it all make sense in an instant.
I know, right? That explanation is straight up feynman-like!
*Aweseome.* Imagine if earth is flat tho.
I feel like the fan analogy he uses says it most simply.
Imagine an electric fan blowing the car forward. In this case the fan is powered by the cars wheels moving over the ground rather than electricy. Move forward motion gives more fan power. The wind just gets you going and keeps you going when friction would want you to slow down.
So does the raw wind power have to at least = the resistance of the vehicle for it to work? I think it does.
They also mentioned that the need at least 10 ( mph or kmph? Both units were used in the video but kmph in the explanation) wind for it to work. That is certainly needed to overcome the static friction of the whole system.
Brilliant. I never thought of rolling down hill! Great!
I think you are right. The first run just equalled the friction of the car and maintained a steady speed. Any wind speed above that would be the faster than wind demonstration.
I think the sailboat tacking is akin to what happens with the propeller pitch. Further more the boat's keel and it's interactions with the waters friction probably have similarities with the cars propeller mechanism, momentum energy and friction with the ground. In any event, it is most likely the same fundamental as the balloon and the tacking boat.
i was following this internet debate like 15 years ago, when it spanned three different message boards, including 30 maxed out threads at talk rational. i can't believe it's still going on. that fight was BRUTAL
Imma be honest, I’m still completely lost on how this works. When the craft is going at the speed of the wind, isn’t it’s perceived wind 0? In which case, how is it able to be powered by the wind if it feels no wind?
@@cosmologicalturtle9528 the propellor is being driven by the wheels, which are being rotated by the vehicle rolling over the ground at nonzero speed.
I hate to upvote this comment because your username creeps me out! LOL
@@cosmologicalturtle9528 If feels a net headwind. In which case why not just turn the thing around 180 degrees into a headwind? It should move forward, thus proving the point more easily.
@@BenJamin-rt7ui I think it's because the cart needs to be rolling for this effect to work, hence it has to be downwind to get its initial momentum
Man, the explanation of "if the earth was a cilynder" was so straightforward.
I see what you did there.
But it's flat tho...
@@90iatros Thats why he said "If"
But why did he not bring that back up at the end of the video?
I think the inventor's sailing around a cylinder analogy is incorrect. He said that the two sails about a cylinder form a prop. I agree with that, but according to Derek, the prop is not acting like a sail in the windmill (airfoil) sense.
You did a fantastic job explaining how it works. Makes perfect sense. 😉
wheels rotate propeller that pushing wheels faster? ) it is not explanation... it is well known perpetum mobile
Great vid. i loved all the nervous build up about it being dangerous and hoping to survive just to move at walking speed
I'll bet the tip of that sail blade would pack a wallop! ;-)
The way the creator explained the prop mechanic of a "cylindrical earth" is mindblowing, and that kind of out of the box thinking is the mark of a genius.
That was the best explanation along with that animation.
flat earthers are.... geniuses?
that he animated that, was just fantastic : )
The simplicity and elegance of this man's idea is so brilliant I cannot stop smiling :)
@@zan7838 Hahaha good joke, you got me there.
"If the Earth were a cylinder...", hey, don't give them any ideas!
you got my like 💀 we don’t even have to say who “they” are we just know 😂
Don't worry we're already at donut earth theory
@@THESLlCK : Mmmmm....donuts! 😋
elon musk: *interesting*
@@THESLlCK Maps on donut worlds need 7 colors. As opposed to maps on spheres that only need 4. So to know what shape the earth is, get a map and count the colors.
Never underestimate the lengths people will go through to refuse to accept something is true for the sole reason that it's counterintuitive.
It makes sense to me from a sailing perspective, and it makes sense from a mechanical perspective that there is some way of using gearing with air. A venturi increases velocity and creates a pressure difference, so it is no great leap to figure there may be a way to manipulate the air in a continuous process to replicate what sailors have already demonstrated is possible.
Scientists always say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." This is a rare case of someone making that effort.
Exactly.
@@KINGJERMARCUS f off
That's it Derek, you settled the debate: *I'm a Cylindrical Earther now.*
I think maybe I need to make cylindrical Earth T-shirts with two sailboats circling downwind.
😜😄
That thought experiment works for showing how the propeller is working on the cart. Of course, if you know how to sail, then you know how it works...
😂😂
Unfortunately, I had to explain to my 25-year-old daughter that the world is not flat after she read about the flat earth theory on the Internet. I was so sad, but she came around soon enough. And now I am confronted with the cylindrical earth theory, and I am Starting to fall for it. Ha ha!
Oddly enough, this actually feels really intuitive to me. Maybe you just explained it super well, but it just makes sense, haha. Super cool!
Unbelievable. Well done. This is fascinating.
Derek* “I expect a lot of push back in the comments”
The comments* “THE EARTH IS A CYLINDER”
@annag cocl "Please be civil" understood, talk about dababy and amogus now.
I'm thinking that if you have 4 sail boats going around a cylinder, you can have 4 blades.
@@happysongs4kyrone affirmative
And i was told the earth is flat...... dang it! Lmao
Come on you guys, you know it's conical
"If I want to slow down at the end, I pull it back. Right?"
Famous last words of Veritasium
That's what she said
Levent!!!! You're everywhere!!!
That's what *he said 😉
Hey, fancy seeing you here. :)
"I'm excited to survive!" Would be much better last words.
I don't know from where the energy is being taken, but the logic with the inertial frame of reference makes absolute sense to me, and as we all saw- that works. 😃
Just when I understand and master the basics Derek has a way of blowing my mind.
Veritasium: "How do I stop?"
*The creators watching each other akwardly*
"We don't do that here..."
rip INGILIS
@@donutzzs we don't do that here.
@@harsh3624 😂🎃
All wind, no breaks
My favorite moment hearing about a nuclear thermal rocket was the answer to the question "how do you turn it off?"
Answer: releasing containment will quickly end the criticality.
I forget who said it -- several years ago -- but went something like:
"Sure they made it work in practice, but can they make it work in theory?"
Michael of Vsauce also said that when he collab with Adam Savage, i think it was the brachistochrone curve episode
That reminds me of the quote, “heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible”
Bicycle: "Are you talkin' to me?"
After a lifetime of experiencing the experts failing at countless numbers of their own predictions, while simultaneously mocking the ideas of people less accredited who actually changed the world, here's a prediction based on scientific data. The experts will be wrong. And the more of them that agree the more wrong they will be.
The way they tell the story it sounds like they had the theory part down first, then built it afterwards. More like theoretical physicists discovering black holes than the Wright Brothers building airplanes
I think the best analogy was the sailboats on a tube(shaft). I totally got it when you put it like that. I just didn't think the blades were big enough to work. That being said, with balanced, possibly bigger blades and a better (more expensive/professional structure), this would be better proven. It would definitely produce better results.
It already has been very well proven and provided much better results. I've had it up to 54 mph with no hint of shaking. The propeller blades were not out of balance, but had mismatched pitch that day. I hadn't even seen the vehicle in more than 10 years, and it was decided that we didn't have the time that day to make those adjustments.
20:22 the windsock and the telltale pointing at each other. I wish physics had been taught like this when I was in high school.
That cylindrical earth argument was something really elegant and beautiful.
So earth is not flat. It is cylindrical.
@@uzlopak ofc
@@AstroCosmos nah
trying to explain physics while wearing Heineken shirt. Nice
actually I don't think it was. with that model, the forward motion of the boat/fan would be at most exactly the same as the wind speed, not faster. so it doesn't really explain anything.
Several times throughout that video I was like, “oh! That makes sense, I get it now,” only to be like a few moments later, “ah? Yeah, I don’t get it anymore.”
Just sitting on the cusp of understanding is frustrating too. I think I would have been lost if I hadn't already learned that propellers are like wings.
Same. It's a very slippery concept. I'm just glad these guys were able to hold it together long enough to build it.
nothing made sense to me
I still don't actually understand lift to this very day. But it's what makes planes fly and ships sail faster than wind, which is happening everywhere every day.
Ditto & I wound up at "I don't get it anymore," at the end of it all.
Looking at a sailboat, it's direction of travel is (neglecting drift here) determined by the hull's heading. For every meter the wind pushes the sail downwind, the boat must also travel x meters (depending on the heading) perpendicular to the wind. This is even more true for a land sail vehicle, which has practically no drift. The same happens with the fan-car, for every meter forward travel of the blade, the blade has to travel x-meters perpendicular to the wind direction. (In this case, in a circular path, instead of a linear path, nonetheless traveling in a plane perpendicular to the wind). The gear ratio between the wheels and the blade determines how much perpendicular travel will happen for each downwind meter traveled by the 'sails'. So with the correct gear ratio and with low enough drag, it is possible to have a velocity made good of the blades that surpasses the wind speed.
This vehicle is for sale on ebay motors right now for $2550. Hopefully it goes to a good home or is donated to a museum.
that idea of the cylindrical earth and two sailboats being like a propeller was genius
Yeah, just like flat earth right? Or climate change.
Just change your name to “that guy” after that
@@anthonygordon4515 no im THE guy faking ur moma
@Kian Woods ikr these people believe anything. If this channel make a video about flat earth all you brainless would buy it lmao
@@someting9205 I mean, I'm not a physicist, so idrk. But, you could also share your opinion instead of that free hate.
Here´s a civil comment: This is scientifically possible. There are no laws broken here. Keep up the good work!
Here's an uncivil comment: Goku would beat him.
@@johanmedrano1924 loooooool
@@johanmedrano1924 x to doubt
@@thedude6058 dude, dont get me started 😂😂😂
@@johanmedrano1924 Saitama is way stronger than Goku.
The fact that people that are actually physicists had a hard time understanding this, makes me feel so much better about myself.
There were plenty of engineers, professors, and physicists that were every bit as certain as Kusenko that this was impossible. You're in good company.
As you stated the hole ship is the sail. The secret to speed is in direct drive gear ratio with ground.
Wind pushes cart, wheels force prop to spin just a little faster then the winds influence would have had just act like wind mill.
"To steer, push back on forth on one of the levers. To stop, pull on one of the other ones. Probably"
--The Designer, probably
If I ever made a steerable sled, I’d have the steering be controlled with two cords; pull one or the other to steer, and pull both together to brake.
@@E1craZ4life i believe the point is to NOT brake too fast.
So if you're going faster than the wind, you want to slow down rather than hit the brake, less something break or you tople over.
Hence why you need to turn wichever direction make you slow down more. But that all was probably mostly humor. Just turn a direction and proceed to slow down is the thing to do... less it's an emergency and you're better off toppling over.
Derek: "How can I halt this thing?
Inventor: "You must figure it out by yourself."
The halting problem.
Derek: yeah sounds legit, lessgo
@@paunstefan1 a Turing complete vehicle
@@paunstefan1 You made me laugh. Thanks :)
best answer ever
19:05 This I think is the best and simplest explanation why this vehicle is not breaking the laws of physics. It's using the energy of the wind which the propeller slows down to drive the car forward.
The other thing you need to understand is the basic principles of a propeller. The force generated by the propeller blade has two components. One is backwards and the other component is in the turning direction of the blade. The force in the turning direction has to be generated by the wheels. But this force is smaller than the backward force (which indirectly power the wheels).
So it's really just a question of building an efficient enough construction when it comes to rolling resistance, propeller design, losses in the power transfer from the wheels to the propeller and aerodynamic drag. And I can imagine if for example NASA or an F1 team would go all in on this, they could probably make a vehicle that achieved highway speed with very little wind.
Even after seeing the more detailed video about this, I'll just categorize this into the "okay I accept it, but I do not understand it" section in my brain.
Yeah, a direct explanation is a little complicated. You can't start with the wind making the propeller turn, because it would turn it the wrong way. You have to start with the wind just pushing the propeller forward, and that pushes the whole cart forward. The propeller doesn't start turning until the wheels and the chain start driving it, and that doesn't happen until the cart makes the wheels turn by forcing them to move forward.
It's trivial to understand if you ever rode a bike.
Inb4 driving faster than you're pedaling? No way.
Hi @@RagingGeekazoid . Yes indeed!
As we Understand the same this part, would You be Kind Enough to Review my Full Explaination in the Main Thread I have just posted? Please 🙏
This is the rational person's reply, as opposed to the far too common "I don't understand it therefore nobody can understand it, and it cannot be true."
The explanation at 8:10 illustrates how this works. A boat isn’t powered by wind blowing ON the sails, a boat is powered by wind blowing ACROSS the sails, which generates lift. The propellor is like two boats that are spinning on the same axis across a cylinder. The wind isn’t PUSHING the propellor, air is moving ACROSS them.
Proof that there's still room for the back yard scientist.
Even the meta scientists of today started in their backyard
Dont question accepted science though, or your crazy and a conspiracy theorist.
@@Raymo2u dont be bitter, show up with evidence that established science is different or grumble back to the lab
@@beansssss3847 Its not establlished science that is the problem. Its what counts as established in the mainstream and its not what the research says or even what the scientists say (which even that would be personal opinion, not research) but what the media says about what they say. At most reading a title or an abstract, certainly not lookng at the methodology, the discussion pages or anything else relating to it for that matter.
In other word, we are doing the work, in fact weve long completed and published that work before we publiclly disagreed (and not published in fake pay to publish magazines).
@@rtg5881 so what are you upset about exactly? that your findings are being wrongly presented? confront the journalists publicly since you would have the appropiate data.
if you cant professionally fight for your research then im not sure youre really involved in any projects.
the poster i replied to is obviously not one.
The jump from cylindrical earth to prop is pretty much the spark of genius.
Yeah, it beautifully make me think that guy have a point. It may be wrong, but it really intuitively believable.
That part literally blew my mind. Just jelly up there now
100%
By that point I had an intuitive sense that it would work but couldn’t grasp why. That was a bit of a “ohhhhh” moment
Yeah that was the point I was like “oh” and I turned the corner to grasping it.
that's how I understand it... the propeller is nothing more than the two sailboats moving on that cylindrical earth, and the axis of the propeller is the cylindrical earth.. if sailboats can move faster than the wind, so can this... but I have to agree that that analogy and reshaping earth is the stroke of genius.
Excellent conclusion with the great explanation - the internet meme that started it all dates to 2003 no less :-]
(yes, pretty much all of my back-friends thought this was a no-brainer and it won't happen - all except one, not me, sadly, though, he was simply open for the possibility, not trying to figure out why/how).
As far as my opinion was back then - I had far more important things to address at the time, but I do remember the lively forum discussions and dozens of attempts at untangling the dynamics. I remember one in particular that claimed that the rotating propeller doubles as a sail of sorts - forgot the original source or the name, but turns out that opinion was at the beginning of the right track.
Thank you for sharing :-]
The power source comes from the difference in speed of wind and ground. From the vehicles frame of reference, the earth's surface is moving towards the vehicle, and energy is extracted from the earth by slowing down the earth (relative to vehicle) by a very tiny amount, and this energy is used to drive the propeller.
No copyrights man do whatever you want with it please pass it around I love you so much you are a huge part of this when I watch that video of how you got into doing this on RUclips that was it dude I was done I was like this guys golden. Have a great day and thank you so much for everybody out there he’s put so much effort into getting this done thank you thank you thank you and you know the big person up above whatever it is is absolutely it’s all around us what I mean up above good gosh if your heartbeat and you know it loves you if you got a thought in your head you know it’s there too right inside the same one almost and figure that part out yet
I felt the most happiest for the guy who dreamt this up, had the balls to share the idea and was then mocked for it, and called out as some kind of liar when showing a working model. Vindication feels good. Those are the types of people that push technology forward, by not caring what others believe, believing in their own ideas and just doing it. Bravo Sir!
I'm glad it worked out, people love to mock and call people crazy for new ideas. Look at all the famous inventors, etc lightbulb, cars, phone, etc... These were all "Nuts" according to people that don't want to understand. Einstein and several others were deemed crazy, I wish they were alive to say FU.
@@jasoncentore1830 one more of Thor's people that was mocked was Nikola Tesla
@@kt.7257 Unfortunately Tesla was both a genius and a crackpot. He deserved both the adulation and the mocking at times.
Welcome to science and going against the grain where you are ridiculed and derided for years and years until you can prove the concept or give up and live in shame.
Science is great, people are not.
This is misleading. The first of these was built in the 60s and it's a mildly popular physics puzzle. The comments are mostly just people trying their best to understand.
That shot when the man is standing clearly showing the wind s blowing opposite to what the piece of string is showing on the blackbird is ICONIC!
16:31
That's one for the books.
@@GregHassler 16:28
16:21 the tail moves backwards ☝🏼
Hope there was a nice shot of it from a camera guy in teh follow car , so he can get it framed
I want to see a new version of that thing built that would be sick!!
Thank you for amazing experiment
The sailboats around a tube explanation is genius!
I didn't get that. But I got his explanation
Maybe, but to me it has little relation to the experiment. Also I miss an explanation how a sail boat can beat a balloon straight down wind. There are no wheels and chain driving the prop or sail.
@@richardbloemenkamp8532 it's talking about the idea of lift providing thrust, much like the propeller blades. Those examples were the proof of concept for the theory that led the creators to buold the vehicle
But it has nothing to do with it because he said the wheels power the fan, not the other way around. This makes no sense and the video is garbage. The wind simply slowed down while he was riding.
@@richardbloemenkamp8532 Thank you! I am in the same boat. ⛵. I don't understand why the wheels are driven. You could essentially replace a sail with this prop and drive a boat faster than wind, so.. wheels don't seem to need to be driven. I don't buy the argument that the craft moves just because it is a bluff body either. It moves due to thrust created by the prop.
"It's like a coffin Shoddily put together" - total Savage to say that right in front of the builder and owner
Yes let's not say sa*age.. it has racist colloquium for many colonized cultures throughout the age of discovery.
@@KrolKaz damn bro, you're savage
@@EnderBOT122 at first I thought he was joking but it looks like he flagged my first comment. It's crazy that people give power to these words go look up the word Savage in a dictionary and get back to me man people are ridiculous
@@EnderBOT122 thanks cirno
@@michaelm1573 i am extremely racist
the fan lowers the wind speed delta behind it, thus allowing it to move faster.
Such an awesome project!
"I expect a lot of pushback in the comment section"
The whole comment section: Wholesome appreciation of this marvelous phenomenon.
But a lot of downvotes on the video
Design Flow! It's wrong turbine. Instal Vertical wind turbine instead horizontal. THAN It will create power on wind from Any direction. From front or back of the car... or even side of the car...
@@simonci5177 The prop is not used as a turbine, but as a propeller/fan. Wind pushes the vehicle - wheels start spinning and power the propeller - wind can push the car to windspeed - propeller "uses" the sailing trick to get the car faster than windspeed. That's why this only works with tailwind.
Perhaps we can use that pushback to type comments faster than... Uhm...
@@simonci5177 I don't know about other people, but I tend to dismiss comments that are copy-pasted across multiple comment threads, no matter what the content of the comment is and whether it's done manually or by a bot.
I think what you explained can also be explained the following way. The propellers are designed in such a way that when wind hits them they spin but at the same time due to the angel they are in they also push air from the back. Now wind coming from back and they pusing the wind towards the back creates a high pressure area and due to the pressure difference between the back and front the whole apparatus moves to the relatively low pressure are aka forward.
Pressure differential is the best explanation, everything clicked
yep it's got my eyes knocking, the analogy of the two downwind ships helps :)
The sail boat metaphor was really clear, everything just clicked for me after that.
If you trust the intial claim that the sailboat can go faster than a wind in a direction of a wind. Sidewise - sure. I do not think projection of a velcity on wind direction is able to overpass wind velocity. Also this analogy doe not do work on why mechanical connection with wheels is necessary. (Actually with boat reaction of an ocean to board pushes boat forward too, and this is discarded).
@@KINGJERMARCUS tf
@@0masuk0 as someone who sails I can say it truly works that way.
Probably makes this whole thing a lot more intuitive, too.
@@0masuk0 Did you watch the whole video? The balloon Vs tacking sail boat thought experiment was discussed in detail.
@@0masuk0 a good sailboat can go downwind faster than a balloon by clipping.
Also, imagine the speed of the blades of the turbine/fan on the car. The blades are moving much faster than the wind, just not in the same direction. The movement of the blades is analogous to a sail boat clipping the wind at some angle (angle is controlled by the left level in the driver's seat). This speed is transmitted to the wheels. It's a bit odd for sure.
When these guys say, "For science" and do something crazy,
IT'S ACTUALLY FOR SCIENCE
I'll be honest, I think that the word "science" is misused here. This is a feat of engineering. I don't think any new science was done here.
@@kevinh6008 yeah but, FOR ENGINEERING! Doesn't quite feel the same.
@@kevinh6008 *for science*
Scientific engineering
Haha true bro
One more thought on your closing comments about the wind speed and wheel speed. If the wind is blowing at 5 miles per hour and the pressure against the vehicle moves itforward at 3 mph it only matters what the drive ratio is from the wheels to the propeller. If it is a ratio of 10 mph thrust to the propeller then you can keep multiplying that to some extent going forward. Just depends on how much you can change your gear ratio from the wheel speed to the propeller speed
Fast sailboats, iceboats etc. have for a long time (100 years? in case of iceboats0 have beat the wind down wind, by tacking as you show in your video. What this machine allows is to "average out" those tacks internally and go st. downwind. (Thought experiment: consider two boats on opposite tacks each towing with a line reelling out, a boat in the middle, when reach end of line tack. Entire system goes straight downwind.)
Or even simpler, sails or props act like wings with lift...not "pushed' by the wind.