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@Rick Beato Plainly put, people DO NOT want to "THINK" while listening to music...THESE days, they just want to VIBE off.... Some songs ask for your COMPLETE attention, not just a "vibe"......Yet MOST songs that are CLASSICS require BOTH, "vibe" AND full attention. ART is and CAN also be a product, it has PROVEN itself to be throughout history, (however subjective it may be). But passing off "💩"as "Art" is a sneaky copout, even some forms of simplicity can EASILY be identified as TRUE art and not..."💩" passed off as art. It is the incomplete sensibility of tech-social-media vs pure ART................and not enough MERGING of the two as we evolve with technology. As I ALWAYS say, if people REALLY cared about art TODAY, then we would have a VAN GHOGH, or even a Andy Warhol, or even a Keith Haring of TODAY....Alas, there is NO universally loved VISUAL ARTIST, that even non-art lovers know of today, there's your clue.
@Rick Beato Virtuosity is not also just SPEED and DIFFICULT shapes or chords, scales, modes, etc. , it is ALSO innovation, trying to use the COMPLETE palette. Why use sky blue all of the time when you can use periwinkle or cobalt...This comes from being a FULL artist and HONING your craft, STUDYING, trying to explore all things available to you as an ARTIST(in this case MUSIC). Virtuosity is also making the connection within YOURSELF and the audience, not just a bunch of HIGHLY technical, fast and difficult stuff, with NO SOUL. You are also trying to tell a STORY with the virtuosity, even if its just instrumental not just a "vibe". What was the LAST instrumental HIT/CLASSIC universally loved even in MAINSTEAM music......?....."Rock IT" by Herbie Hancock...? That's 40 years ago....
Rick, you should consider finding out amazing potentials of music, by some kind of audition contest, voted by your audience. Winners get to be produced by you and selected guests, like Tim Pearce and others. All sessions available live, for subscribers, and edited content in RUclips with the best parts, like Netflix format of Episodes.
Who are 'they' exactly though? I really don't see this lack in virtuosity in any style of music contemporaneously. Name a genre and I'll find you an artist of act with phenomenal acumen. It's a matter of preference. The 1970s had a great deal going for it experimentally and with respect to musical skill. But the main concern here seems to be that it was strongly represented in popular culture at the time unlike today. But the 70s also ushered in disco in a dominant fashion, prior decades having their own bubblegum movements. There's always going to be great music and musicianship. You just need to know where to find it.
@@mausperson5854 Good points. I took “they” as being the artists along with the record companies, etc who are putting out tracks solely for the purpose of making quick money and not creating anything of lasting artistic value.
@@Craig_Fussell Understood. Though I've been playing for thirty five odd years, covering everything to punk, jazz, electronica, metal, sardonic country (I coined that one, lol)... you name it; it became apparent very early in the game that there's scant monetary gains to be found in artistry. Their point seems to be most compelling in the sense that the landscape has changed so much that great musicians are unlikely to make a living or be recognised in mainstream terms, unless they tour 300 days of the year and sell merch at the venues. Sad reality, but when have musicians ever had it easy on that front? Thankfully the hardcopy renaissance is catered more towards underground and exploratory styles of music than whatever keeps the Spotify top ten afloat.
Tim is the guy that drove me to study guitar when I was a kid. I heard his solo in Go Go Power Rangers soundtrack theme every Sunday when I was 3rd grader in primary school. Speculation was up when some friends said that it was Paul Gilbert played the solo, and the other ones said that it was Buckethead, and my other friends said it was Steve Vai. Soon after internet was up in 2005, I found that Tim Pierce was the man behind the great soloing on the soundtrack of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers series. Thank you Tim, you have been inspiring us for decades. Be blessed ... 🙏
@@ChromaticHarp maybe not in his country.........the name sounds foreign.......1993 in the USA. In some parts of India today they do not even have electricity yet.
@@rufsis Not according to the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy" if ya know that film from the 80s. Someone in a small flying plane threw a Coke bottle down to earth and it hit the head of an African tribesman who vowed to return that bottle to its rightful owner.......the gods. The film after that was simply illustrating the quest to execute that mission resulting trouble after trouble for that tribesman. The ending: he threw the Coke bottle down a cliff concluding The Gods Must Be Crazy.
Virtuosity is alive and well in Bluegrass. Go to a Bluegrass festival and the campground will be filled with musicians. I got to watch Billy Strings here in Michigan at many festivals over the years and there'd be guys like Billy everywhere. Obviously, Billy is pretty special, but still, Terry Barber (billy's dad) and many like him were all over the place.
@@uelisgold Yeah! Greensky Bluegrass!! I can't count how many times those guys rocked out around here. Every New Years eve at the State Theatre. Everybody's gone on it seems. Lindsay Lou, Nashville, Billy, Nashville along with a bunch of other talent.
@@billnichols6688 I saw these guys during the last tour cycle, and they've got chops. Brendon played a floating piano, drums, jumped over fire, the bassist was dancing through pyro... Darn good band
I'm curious why Prince is never discussed, the guy was just so talented in so many different spheres. His guitar playing is beautifully soulful and always in service to the song, the solos leave you wanting more. A true genius.
Could be because Prince practically boycotted the internet and got RUclips to take down any videos featuring his music. I don't know who carries on the tradition in his stead. You can discuss him but don't show examples.
Virtuosity is not what draws me to music, it is the whole song, the way it feels to me and the way it makes me feel, the chemistry with bandmates, the creativity, the unexpected. Yes I am sure virtuosity is one contributing factor but it is just one part of the whole.
Agreed...we live in a time when it takes 24 writers to make a hit, although more of that is the industry pushing product and celebrity. Can you think of a good Pop song that was written by only one or two people, much less people in the same band? I honestly would not mind hearing more virtuosity in music. It takes a nuanced ear to include virtuosic parts in songs, or at least an instrumental part that actually draws attention to itself without being obtrusive to the overall song. Not many can do it.
Music is so special.When a Human Being has an idea and others sense this and get involved organically you are a part of a very special sound from the Time that you hear this.This is the whole premise of Human Beings coming together to connect and make something that everyone can understand without really knowing why.
Rick, Tim is just the best. His time with you is always great learning for players. Sure would like to have him on a project of mine, but I live in Hawaii. Thank you so much for your channel and Tim, Rhett, and Dave.
Virtuosity will never be obsolete, it's just not currently en vogue in an era of digital music. But there are so many amazing people out there, of all ages, who are elevating their instruments in many genres. Those of us who really appreciate music will always take the time to seek them out. Thank you Rick and Tim.
We ALREADY know that there are amazing people out there. Rick knows this too. The point is within MAINSTREAM music, and how it’s not embraced within mainstream music today. In the past such as the 90’s, 80’s, 70’s, 60’s. Virtuosity WAS embraced in mainstream music.
@@kingofhearts1072 The question was about the obsolescence of virtuosity. I gave my opinion. Creativity breeds it, artistic freedom nurtures it. This era is devoid of both. We are in agreement.
I am currently on tour in Europe with Snarky Puppy and we have 2 shows left to play out of 30. A large percentage of them sold out and in some amazing venues. I think all of these guys would qualify as virtuosos. The audiences are getting more and more diverse and I think that the lack of lyrics really will help them expand their base all over the world as there are no words to understand, just great songs and amazing talent. I also love that they make their records in front of a live audience.
Kansas was full of virtuosity - every player. But Kerry Livgren is one of the finest composers, orchestrators, lyricists, and multi-instrumentalists in the world. Still true today as a solo artist and leader of Proto-Kaw. So nearly 50 years of greatness!
Tim Pierce is criminally under rated .... plays with great taste, he can do it all. And Mr. Beaton is no slouch either, another Soulful player and you can tell that he loves music with a passion and it shows on his " What Makes This Song Great " series.
IMO there will always be people who appreciate virtuosity and those who don't care. That applies to any kind of things: art, cuisine, cooking BBQ, all kinds of things. Really just about anything people create. The pendulum swings and popularity comes and goes as people get tired of something after a while. Wide interest in virtuosity won't go away forever. It'll come and go.
Of course not. Look Hizaki former Versailles member now in the band Jupiter. Look at Miyako from Lovebites. Saki from Nemophilia, Herman Li Dragonlance. Joe Satriani still putting out great music today. And that is guitar On Drums that term would apply to Marina Bozzio from Aldious, Haruna from Lovebites, Junna former drummer from Trident, as well as a few others. Singing Flor Jensen. I could list dozens more.
I was lucky enough to meet John Shanks in the mid 90s. He told me his best friend wrote 2 songs that got on a Madonna album and he was set for life. Those were the days.
..and the answer is YES! Technical skills are just data I store in my brain, great songs with great parts remain the soundtrack to my life. Fortunately, Tim is excellent at doing both things.
Virtuosity is alive and well in Flamenco guitar. I’ve never really heard you mention this jaw dropping genre. Antonio Rey is the new leader out there. Won a Grammy last year. Would love if you went down the Flamenco rabbit hole
Despite his incredible skill, and history. I love Tim Pierce because i just look at him and i am happy, its face lights up a room. he infects with positivity. Love watching you two chat, its great.
Guthrie being mentioned, but you must listen to him with Steven Wilson. Drive Home as a starting point. It's the perfect marriage of virtuosity and servitude in regards to the music. Granted Steven has been writing since the late 80's so I can accept him not belonging to the younger generation. Still heavily worth listening.
Guys, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Johnny Marr. I just love his rather unique guitar contributions to so many bands over the years, not least of all the Smiths of course, as well as his solo work. They form the foundational riffs and melodies of the songs, but rarely feature any big centre stage solos as such. I never hear him spoken about by folks from the US. In my mind he is a virtuoso. What do you think?
My father was a Nashville Pro (Steel Player) whether in the studio or in a band these guys played together. It was always about the service to the song. Too many young musicians have lots of technique, but are very isolated from each other. In a 5 piece country band the lead guitar and steel always play of each other (Buddy and Leon). Thus the competition just made the music better. I don't see as much interaction between musicians today sadly.
Hey Guys, you are talking about Jason Isbell. The great song, great lyrics and a great guitar playing. Maybe not so worldwide but here in Poland we love him ;-)
There's already been a rock revolution happening in Australia for the last few years. Bands like Amyl and the Sniffers, The Chats, Waax, and a ton of others are making great rock music.
This may be too specific, but I love Classic Rock radio when I'm hanging out with friends outdoors, especially on water/boats/docks. It completes the "Summer" experience much more than a playlist. Maybe I'm the only one.
I've spent years trying to become a "virtuoso" guitar player. After watching your video on great virtuoso players doing their own version of the Stairway to Heaven solo, I think I may have been wasting my time, as Jimmy Page's solo trumped them all, imo, and he could hardly be considered a virtuoso. The music should come first.
Guitar, and guitar solos should always serve the song. A perfect example of that is Dave Gregory, who is a virtuoso, but everything he played with XTC, Tin Spirits and Big Big Train was perfect for the song, no showboating (with some exceptions, like BBT's 'Last Train' and Tin Spirits 'Summer Now')
Virtuosity is not also just SPEED and DIFFICULT shapes or chords, scales etc. , it is ALSO innovation, trying use the COMPLETE palette. Why use sky blue all of the time when you can use periwinkle or cobalt.. Virtuosity is also making the connection within YOURSELF and the audience, not just a bunch of HIGHLY technical, fast and difficult stuff, with NO SOUL.
part of it is because stairway to heaven is engraved in our heads the way jimmy played it. it's like as if b.b. king played vai's 'for the love of god'
Question: How many top musicians and singers interact with each other. That used to be so common in the sixties and seventies. Players learned from each other and played on each other's albums.
Best I can think of is John Mayer but he'd be considered a singer I guess. Mateus does some bits with singers too apparently and Tommy Lee works with Post Malone , and Slash just works with everyone still
Collaborations in the pop, R&B, Electronic world are WAAAAY more common than in the Rock world. In rock collaborating really only started happening in the 90's and later (with some rare exceptions). In the 80's especially and also in the 60's and 70's your band was your band and you didn't drift far away from that. Music was much more competitive back then. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.
@@doublestrokeroll That's not true at all. The stones and the beatles were always hanging out (hell, the beatles even wrote the stones first hit), hendrix played with everybody, Clapton played with everybody and had actual bands with most of them (cream, blind faith, delaney and bonnie, derek and the dominoes), Jeff beck's first solo album had the who's rhythm section on it, the whole relationship between steely dan and the doobie brothers was a thing, then there's that whole british hard rock/metal scene in the 70s and 80s with the various members of sabbath, purple, uriah heep, rainbow etc., the whole interchanging of members of the prog scene in the 70s that led to supergroups like asia in the 80s, Bonham played with mccartney, Lennon played with elton john and bowie, and that's not even getting into the 80s when they'd actually advertise someone like van halen playing with MJ or SRV playing with bowie. So I don't know what version of rock history you've been handed, but collaborations have always been a thing.
@@kyleh1127 yeah in the 60's there were some examples you could cherry pick but it wasn't anywhere near as pervasive as it is in popular music today. EVERYONE collaborates today with everyone else because they understand marketing. lol...you pointing out things like EVH playing with MJ and Roth doing a solo album were reasons they broke up....hardly proving your point. Those were such rare examples it's precisely why you remember them. Because they didn't happen that often.
Kyle H is absolutely right. My dad was showcasing Fender guitars in London from 1963-1966. Most everyone new everyone and he was considered an old guy at 35. I remember Keith Richards, the Hollie's etc. hanging around him trying to steal licks. They were just kids.
If I had the opportunity to play with other musicians, I would certainly do so. I am stuck within my own creative atmosphere. I rely heavily on programming and using plug-ins to achieve a desired outcome (That doesn't make me any less of a musician), sometimes spending countless hours and hours creating a track. No one listens, no one cares, but its all good. It's my own, non commercial, artwork. Yeah, it would be nice to earn a buck or two to pay for some upgrades, or some professional studio time, but the industry doesn't have room for my art. What to do. Only keep creating and enjoying life. This is the modern artist!
OMG I effing love this video. Virtuoso musicians exist in huge numbers. Old and young, as in TODAY. The problem is that their exposure is limited to their youtube, tik-tok and Instagram profiles. Virtuosity doesn't draw large crowds, it doesn't sell millions upon millions of copies/downloads. Today's music scene is all superficial BS backed by marginal talent, autotune, teams of writers..... anything and anyone that can move the merch. The only other exposure I see for today's virtuosos are feature articles in music industry publishings or a youtube video from those publishers.
Rick, I've never heard you say a word about Madison Cunningham. She's a fabulous guitar player, not in the same sense as a shredder, but more like a George Harrison. But above all she's possibly the best songwriter on the planet right now. Every day I find myself walking around the house and humming tunes, and they're almost always Madison's songs!
Japan, and Europe tons of metal, tock bands. Virtuosos plenty. Lovebites, Nemophila, Band Maid, Babymetals Kami band. Nightwish, Sabaton, Evergrey, to name a few. Try Band Maids Onset, an insttumental right thrre with YYZ as my fsvorites. Kansmis influences: Carlos Santana, Larry Carlton, EVH. Lovebites dong Break the wall, some of the most incredible guitar solos. Miyako is a virtuoso on guitar, and concert pianist. She plays guitar and piano same time in Burden of Time. Japan is exploding with talented bands. All these bands are influenced by classic rock, metal, grunge. Metallica, Zepplin, Deep Purple, etc. Lovebites is a power, thrash metal band. Burden of time in my all time favorite songs. Yes Miyako is playing hammer on power chords on guitar, backing Midoris blazing guitar solo, while soloing on piano.
To me, virtuosity is exactly the definition that Tim gave at the beginning of the video: anyone who excels in art. And by that definition, a great songwriter without chops… is a virtuoso! And so is a shredder in an instrumental band, who writes songs to showcase their skills. You don’t have to be able to sweep pick an aeolian scale in 16th notes at 200 bpm to be a virtuoso, and you don’t have to write a catchy hook over a memorable chord structure to do it either. If you excel at art, no matter your discipline or definition of excellence, you are a virtuoso.
Virtuosity is alive and well in Metal. So many that pair great compositions and over the top playing. For example, Symphony X, great tunes, great vocals, virtuosity pouring.
I might be biased because of my enjoyment of classical music. But people like Itzak Pearlman and Pinkus Zuckerman are virtuosic. I don't know many guitarist that can play at the same level as those two men. But again. They're soloists, and to me a virtuoso is a singular person that is insanely skilled. I don't view it through the lense of an entire band/group.
When I saw the video title, classical music was one of the first genres that popped into my head. Playing and singing at extremely high levels of proficiency is the norm in classical instrumental and vocal music, never mind the top soloists.
Totally different animal. It's like the difference between a fiddle player and a violinist. There is a RUclips video of Stewart Copeland explaining the difference somewhere and he hits the nail on the head.
A lot of folk styles around the world still have virtuosity. Flamenco comes to mind, for instance. Arabs and Turks still adore and revere there oud Masters. The Celtic music of Scotland and Ireland features lots of virtuosic performances. In tropical America, people still go nuts over a good bongo or conga player. Same goes for a good salsa pianist. I think the question is to be restricted to western, English speaking pop music. many other musical traditions still revere their virtuosos. And, of course, musicians anywhere and everywhere love them. Always! We really dig it. There’s nothing quite like the feeling of watching a master of the instrument do his or her thing. Glorious stuff. I just watched a master kora player. The man was amazing! His musical tradition was completely different from anything I know but, he definitely knew what he was doing and was an absolute pleasure to watch and listen to.
I know its an older record now and not "pop" in any way but when I hear the word "virtuoso" my mind always goes to Friday Night In San Francisco.... that record (to me anyway) just defines virtuoso... especially Paco De Lucia.
I'd rather listen to Neil Young's solo on Like a Hurricane than many so called virtuoso players. Aside from that, the top classical, flamenco, and jazz guitarists are light years beyond any rock guitarist concerning virtuosity.
Part of the problem is that most of the new virtuoso style players are on Instagram and usually work alone on short songs to highlight their playing. It's not about the song.
The problem is the guitar is a live instrument. Van Halen and Led Zeppelin records were meant to capture a live experience in your home, but now live performances are trying to capture a record's experience.
This Cat Tim is my new favorite guitar player. No doubt.Just saw him jamming to Aerosmith. Its been so long since anything "musical" has brought an uncontrolable happiness to me. Man this guy has it! No wonder he's at the top of the heap! And Rick here has the most interesting "music appreciation" content out there. This is just great stuff. The great Rod Price of Foghat (we got cut open for hernias within days of each other in NH on the same gurney by same Doc was our connection😂) in 2001 stated to me, referring to my gripes at the time and relating to Tim's "hope" here, "music is cyclical" and not to worry. He was so confident about this statement I think Tim will get his wish. God loves the Rock n Rollers too ya know!
How many Rick Beato subscribers does it take to change a lightbulb? one to change the lightbulb and 3.1 million to discuss how no one can change a lightbulb like they did back in the day
Fellas, I think we all love a memorable, singable melody (and/or guitar solo). I've personally always gravitated toward ear tickling, brain teasing "high information" music, though. Most of what I listen to and like to hear will never be a top 40 song or sung in a church choir, etc. Plini and his contemporaries are right up my alley. But I grew up on Bach and Coltrane. I love simple music, but again, even that isn't typical, like Phillip Glass.. Mimicking Birds, anyone? We had a golden area of guitar driven rock anthems in the 60s-80s, but let it be what it was and move on. It's now "classic" music.
Time magazine has the Edge at 26 and van Halen at number 78 on top 100 rock guitarists of all time. That's like having Taylor Swift at 20th greatest pianists of all time and Oscar Peterson not making the top hundred.
Those magazine "best-of" lists are bullshit anyway, there's no way to objectively rank artists on a list like that and they know it but it gets them clicks and comments.
If you go to a concert by a killer guitarist, someone who has mind-bendingly spectacular technique, the audience will primarily be made up of musicians - especially guitarists, of course. I've attended a few such concerts. We musicians tend to forget that the general public wants to hear something that makes them feel emotion. They really don't care whether the player is a virtuoso. What they care about is how the music makes them feel. Edge being ranked higher than EVH might irritate some guitarists, but evidently the portion of the general public polled at that time felt more of an emotional connection with the music Edge played. If it was only professional guitarists participating in the poll, you might get a different result.
If my wife and I are just driving around doing errands, the radio is always on. Nearing 60. We don’t have any music subscriptions. Yep, we’re living in the 80s. I listen to books on longer drives. I find listening to music on multi hour drives makes the drive seem slower. But radio is still relevant to many older people.
In a certain way, I think it's good for virtuosity to take a break. I'm 50, def feel I watched a narrowing of what is considered a " good " guitarist over the years. And in many ways I think that homogenized the instrument. The variation between rippers kinda disappeared. Obv I'm generalizing, but so many valid and interesting players got overlooked, or don't get noticed as they weren't virtuoso's. We all remember the end of the 80's, maybe Shrapnel Rec's would be the most glaring example, but a a ton of incredible players who write sound beds to solo over, or really can't write, and wouldn't reaaallly work in an actual band. Some of the players mentioned Polyphia and Tosin, for getting people into guitar, actually turn a lot of people away! They're interesting and amazing, but for norm's, they're off-putting. I see a lot of kids these days picking up guitar to write songs, and idolizing Joni, NRBQ, etc etc. IN short, I think that songwriting is coming back. My 2 cent's.
A very pertinent comment. Its like virtuosity in Jazz became the 'thing' rather than making music for people to dance to that had the occassional incredible solo. By the 1960's the 'solo' was the entire song, which is why jazz musicians were playing to 50 people in clubs and not thousands in theatres. Most people who listen to music are not musicians so it's a redundant argument about why virtuoso's are not more appreciated, only their peers can appreciate what they do.
So glad you brought this subject up. It’s something I’ve been talking about for years. The amount of work went into the songs was much more than today.
Sorry I missed this live, but I have discovered Billy Strings in the past few years and this dude really rocks. There are tons of virtuoso flat pick players but Billy is magic when he plays live.
Virtuosity is not only alive and well but resurgent and flourishing in Japanese rock, where multiple bands are driving both the art and the technical musicality to new heights, often brilliantly fusing genres. As I say there are many but I will just mention Band-Maid, Nempohila and Sokoninaru and rest my case. Keep up the great work.
Agreed, and Japan is keeping METAL not just alive but thriving with awesome traditional Japanese instruments flavoring it. Great stuff. I hope Rick does a few vids on Japanese music, Miyazaki and anime music.
@@jakemf1 your facts are objectively incorrect, he's a virtuoso player, you don't have to like the direction his music has taken but facts are facts and your facts ain't them
I saw the two of you last night at the Ebell. One thing you shared is how the RUclipsr community in your circle supports each other and helps others grow in quality and content.
So I guess playing in the pocket can't exist now. With everything so produced that every note, every instrument is perfectly placed to any time signature. The just playing to play, to enjoy is what is missing. The passion the enjoyment, the spark that is A BAND.
Tim said: Everything will sound like a video game. There are some amazing musical scores on video games: Kingdom Come Deliverance and Skyrim to name a few. I believe Grand Theft Auto even has a role in making songs get popular because they pick existing songs for their soundtrack. I posted this here because I love your channel Rick and I always have so much to say but no-one ever sees it. Just a few thoughts here ❤️👍✌️🤜🤛
I live in Sedona. It has been a very rainy summer - not in terms of quantity but in terms of it raining somewhere every day. I would have been star struck if I bumped into Rick Beato here.
When I was growing up, all the bands I listened to crafted great musicianship within the confines of well written songs. Consider a song like Jump or Round and Round. Great playing and production but huge hits. I find the You tube world of guitar a bit uninspiring. The level of playing is beyond what I thought was ever possible in many respects but at the end of the day it's amazing bedroom or NAMM show playing at best. It's not like Hendrix Machine Gun or EVH's solo spot on Live Without a Net. They had to get it right on the night. You don't get a second take in front of 20000 fans!
In terms of @timpierce was talking about = band, rock, songwriting, and virtuoso guitaring: Cardinal Black (Chris Buck). Only thing they need is awareness leading to large venues
Virtuosity (guitar, drums, vocal) is alive and well in charismatic Japanese bands like BAND-MAID, NEMOPHILA, LOVE BITES, UNLUCKY MORPHEUS, SOKONINARU, ASTERISM, and more.
This view is a little Eurocentric as there is definitely exceptional talent in Japanese metal and rock (and other less know worldwide bands). Right now my favorite band is LOVEBITES and am looking forward to seeing BAND MAID live this October. Last, Miyako of LOVEBITES loves her some wah wah pedal. Peace
What happens a lot is that virtuosos (or people trying to be) tend to forget that the main objective is to serve the song and to do only what it needs. Instead, there’s a lot of ego involved, and there’s a tendency to add extra fluff just to impress.
Thundercat has some great songs and is a virtuoso bass player. Mononeon too. I like Black Midi songs and the drummer rules ... they will never be super famous though...I think JD Beck and Domi could be huge if they write more songs and sing more..They are really young too
Virtuosity has been and always will be secondary to the king. Song is king. No two ways about it. SONG is KING. Always has been. Virtuosity without good songs is like wearing $20 socks in $2 shoes.
There are an exceptional amount of bands - I don't think this is fair characterization. Maybe it's semantics, because virtuosity is all over the place now. It's just really difficult to get through the noise. We find our individual players/bands and each of us enjoys our local talent. That's not a loss of virtuosity - that's a shift in the industry and its reach. There's good and bad: people can make it without the labels, but we've lost the mega-star rock bands, because there simply isn't enough gatekeeping to align people's tastes to a limited shared output.
I like virtuosic playing and I love featured guitar, but I don’t think virtuosity ever really had a place in much mainstream radio rock music. How many great songs were made better by a solo that required true virtuosic playing? Most of the Journey songs or other groups cited here have solos but you don’t need to be a virtuoso to play them. The Cars had great hooky solos, but I wouldn’t call them virtuosic. And as for Van Halen, Eddie’s songwriting was so good that even if you cut out the solos the songs would be practically as good. Some of their biggest hits like Runnin With the Devil or Dance the Night Away do not have true solos. If we’re talking in terms of good musicianship (playing in time and in tune) then I agree
Your missing the point. Those virtuoso musicians were writing great songs that were hits and made it into the mainstream, and they were adored by everyone as a result. None of that is true anymore, virtuosos don't write commercially successful songs and aren't celebrated anymore. There is a very clear and undeniable difference between the way it used to work and the way it works now.
I have a PRS that came with a Floyd Rose. It's a DW CE 24. The DW is for Dustie Waring.... a signature model PRS. I didn't know who Dustie was when I decided to buy the guitar. I bought it because it looked good, and it is. It's a great guitar!
Wish I could be at your show. You mentioned Sound Garden, I actually saw them in Phoenix in 1992. They opened for Guns and Roses at an out door amphitheater. I loved Sound Garden and they did not disappoint. One hell of a show and Sound Garden absolutely communicated so well with the audience. I became a much bigger fan. Sound Garden live is better than recorded. Guns and Roses actually sucked live basically because they were hours late and Axle was a total @ss. They were boo’d off stage.
I think I was at that exact show! Compton Terrace? Somebody decided the appropriate music to play while waiting for Axel to get his punk ass on stage was Public Enemy. It was an... unpopular... choice.
Too bad. Sound Garden was responsible , along with the other Lalapalosers, for killing good musicianship and songwriting in Rock music. Proof, look at what is being downloaded more, the music between 1964 to 1992,, is more downloaded than music from 1993 to the present. Grunge and Nu Metal isn't aging too well .
Theres so many bands from the last 10-20 years with great songs and virtuoso lvl playing, because they arent mainstream doesnt mean much to me. The genre of death metal for example is HUGE with a passionate fanbase, but by default they will never be commercial, that doesnt mean there arent any great songs. I hate the idea that it has to be commercially popular to be considered good.
I blame the lack of virtuosity and the appreciation of it on shortening attention spans. If you don't have the focus and drive to put in the hours to become highly proficient at a thing yourself, you're not going to appreciate seeing it in others. I enjoy seeing human excellence on display in music, art, science, whatever.
Rick, can you start a nonprofit where older musicians teach the ropes of the business to younger ones, in hopes that virtuosity can make a comeback? I haven't heard this whole segment yet, but did you discuss the lack of music education in many schools nowadays?
I've made a similar plea. Beato is here to expand his audience and sell books. If he could wrangle more $$$ with your suggestion, he would. But he won't.
@@RadCenter I can name dozens of bands that are working today that would fall into this category. Listen to any nu-metal band, and they are all technical wizards. I'm not saying that they are my favorite bands in the world, but listen to Opted, High on Fire, The Izz, Dream Theater, etc. and tell me that virtuosity is dead.
It's the role of music that has changed. Where listening to music used to be a main thing people did - like you would sit down and listen to a record, the role of music is now secondary. Poeple don't "listen to music" anymore. people watch short videos, in social media or play videos games and music just needs to be in the background and be a good match for whatever the main thing they are doing is. So modern music is made for that. No point spending months perfecting a song when for the most part you can only hope it trends on TikTok shorts
The sad thing is that in the last 10 years music has to deal with an all dominating unwritten rule: only write music that a lot of people want to hear. It kills all creativity to come up with something new, because everyone plays it safe. That’s why a lot of pop music sounds so bland and uninspired. The excitement to be wowed is gone.
You can tell by the 2022 Top40 that this was a disastrous year for pop music. There wasn't even a "summer song". I do agree that pop music in general is very much bankrupt of ideas and this year was a culmination of how bad it has gotten. I honestly don't know where it goes from here.
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@Rick Beato
Plainly put, people DO NOT want to "THINK" while listening to music...THESE days, they just want to VIBE off....
Some songs ask for your COMPLETE attention, not just a "vibe"......Yet MOST songs that are CLASSICS require BOTH, "vibe" AND full attention.
ART is and CAN also be a product, it has PROVEN itself to be throughout history, (however subjective it may be). But passing off "💩"as "Art" is a sneaky copout, even some forms of simplicity can EASILY be identified as TRUE art and not..."💩" passed off as art.
It is the incomplete sensibility of tech-social-media vs pure ART................and not enough MERGING of the two as we evolve with technology.
As I ALWAYS say, if people REALLY cared about art TODAY, then we would have a VAN GHOGH, or even a Andy Warhol, or even a Keith Haring of TODAY....Alas, there is NO universally loved VISUAL ARTIST, that even non-art lovers know of today, there's your clue.
@Rick Beato
Virtuosity is not also just SPEED and DIFFICULT shapes or chords, scales, modes, etc. , it is ALSO innovation, trying to use the COMPLETE palette.
Why use sky blue all of the time when you can use periwinkle or cobalt...This comes from being a FULL artist and HONING your craft, STUDYING, trying to explore all things available to you as an ARTIST(in this case MUSIC).
Virtuosity is also making the connection within YOURSELF and the audience, not just a bunch of HIGHLY technical, fast and difficult stuff, with NO SOUL.
You are also trying to tell a STORY with the virtuosity, even if its just instrumental not just a "vibe".
What was the LAST instrumental HIT/CLASSIC universally loved even in MAINSTEAM music......?....."Rock IT" by Herbie Hancock...?
That's 40 years ago....
Rick, you should consider finding out amazing potentials of music, by some kind of audition contest, voted by your audience. Winners get to be produced by you and selected guests, like Tim Pearce and others. All sessions available live, for subscribers, and edited content in RUclips with the best parts, like Netflix format of Episodes.
Tim hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer when he said he “wished they would make art rather than product.” ✌🏻
@@travisk4215Not that I’m aware of. Where is he from?
They aren’t mutually exclusive
Who are 'they' exactly though? I really don't see this lack in virtuosity in any style of music contemporaneously. Name a genre and I'll find you an artist of act with phenomenal acumen. It's a matter of preference. The 1970s had a great deal going for it experimentally and with respect to musical skill. But the main concern here seems to be that it was strongly represented in popular culture at the time unlike today. But the 70s also ushered in disco in a dominant fashion, prior decades having their own bubblegum movements. There's always going to be great music and musicianship. You just need to know where to find it.
@@mausperson5854 Good points. I took “they” as being the artists along with the record companies, etc who are putting out tracks solely for the purpose of making quick money and not creating anything of lasting artistic value.
@@Craig_Fussell Understood. Though I've been playing for thirty five odd years, covering everything to punk, jazz, electronica, metal, sardonic country (I coined that one, lol)... you name it; it became apparent very early in the game that there's scant monetary gains to be found in artistry. Their point seems to be most compelling in the sense that the landscape has changed so much that great musicians are unlikely to make a living or be recognised in mainstream terms, unless they tour 300 days of the year and sell merch at the venues. Sad reality, but when have musicians ever had it easy on that front? Thankfully the hardcopy renaissance is catered more towards underground and exploratory styles of music than whatever keeps the Spotify top ten afloat.
Tim is the guy that drove me to study guitar when I was a kid. I heard his solo in Go Go Power Rangers soundtrack theme every Sunday when I was 3rd grader in primary school. Speculation was up when some friends said that it was Paul Gilbert played the solo, and the other ones said that it was Buckethead, and my other friends said it was Steve Vai. Soon after internet was up in 2005, I found that Tim Pierce was the man behind the great soloing on the soundtrack of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers series. Thank you Tim, you have been inspiring us for decades. Be blessed ... 🙏
Cool but the internet was up in 1993
@@ChromaticHarp maybe not in his country.........the name sounds foreign.......1993 in the USA. In some parts of India today they do not even have electricity yet.
@@ThelSuperlKing Some places in Africa don't even have gravity yet
@@rufsis Not according to the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy" if ya know that film from the 80s. Someone in a small flying plane threw a Coke bottle down to earth and it hit the head of an African tribesman who vowed to return that bottle to its rightful owner.......the gods. The film after that was simply illustrating the quest to execute that mission resulting trouble after trouble for that tribesman. The ending: he threw the Coke bottle down a cliff concluding The Gods Must Be Crazy.
Tim was your driver, wow!! I would have just got lessons from him. 😳
Virtuosity is alive and well in Bluegrass. Go to a Bluegrass festival and the campground will be filled with musicians. I got to watch Billy Strings here in Michigan at many festivals over the years and there'd be guys like Billy everywhere. Obviously, Billy is pretty special, but still, Terry Barber (billy's dad) and many like him were all over the place.
Bluegrass is killing it. Love billy strings.
Greensky Bluegrass from the hills of Kalamazoo. I think they use to make Gibsons here.
Yep, check out DOYLE DYKES!
@@uelisgold Yeah! Greensky Bluegrass!! I can't count how many times those guys rocked out around here. Every New Years eve at the State Theatre. Everybody's gone on it seems. Lindsay Lou, Nashville, Billy, Nashville along with a bunch of other talent.
Molly Tuttle
"Virtuosity in service of a great song" - Brilliant comment, really sums up what is missing in modern music.
Check out the « Panic! at the Disco » album that dropped this week. I think it it will change your mind.
@@billnichols6688 I saw these guys during the last tour cycle, and they've got chops. Brendon played a floating piano, drums, jumped over fire, the bassist was dancing through pyro... Darn good band
Love watching videos with Tim. Feel like I could sit at a bar and talk with these guys for hours.
Nicely said... I feel the same way. Alway excited to see a newly posted Rick and Tim Video!
I'm curious why Prince is never discussed, the guy was just so talented in so many different spheres. His guitar playing is beautifully soulful and always in service to the song, the solos leave you wanting more. A true genius.
He's an older generation artist. They are talking about wanting somebody new to do great songs with virtuosity on guitar in it.
I believe he is (was) a blocker. I remember many years ago his music wasn’t available in streaming music platforms, like Spotify.
@@LuisRivera-us3pv Yes he was a blocker when alive, but that's no longer the case. There's tons of Prince content available now.
I’m so with you in that one
Could be because Prince practically boycotted the internet and got RUclips to take down any videos featuring his music. I don't know who carries on the tradition in his stead. You can discuss him but don't show examples.
Virtuosity is not what draws me to music, it is the whole song, the way it feels to me and the way it makes me feel, the chemistry with bandmates, the creativity, the unexpected. Yes I am sure virtuosity is one contributing factor but it is just one part of the whole.
Agreed...we live in a time when it takes 24 writers to make a hit, although more of that is the industry pushing product and celebrity. Can you think of a good Pop song that was written by only one or two people, much less people in the same band? I honestly would not mind hearing more virtuosity in music. It takes a nuanced ear to include virtuosic parts in songs, or at least an instrumental part that actually draws attention to itself without being obtrusive to the overall song. Not many can do it.
Music is so special.When a Human Being has an idea and others sense this and get involved organically you are a part of a very special sound from the Time that you hear this.This is the whole premise of Human Beings coming together to connect and make something that everyone can understand without really knowing why.
Rick, Tim is just the best. His time with you is always great learning
for players. Sure would like to have him on a project of mine, but I
live in Hawaii. Thank you so much for your channel and Tim, Rhett,
and Dave.
Virtuosity will never be obsolete, it's just not currently en vogue in an era of digital music. But there are so many amazing people out there, of all ages, who are elevating their instruments in many genres. Those of us who really appreciate music will always take the time to seek them out. Thank you Rick and Tim.
Yes! There are so many amazing players out there...I really think Rick is wrong with this take.
@@richardberman8527 With all the computer generated music, where? Where are the amazing players? Jacob Collier can play a bit.
We ALREADY know that there are amazing people out there. Rick knows this too.
The point is within MAINSTREAM music, and how it’s not embraced within mainstream music today.
In the past such as the 90’s, 80’s, 70’s, 60’s. Virtuosity WAS embraced in mainstream music.
@@kingofhearts1072 The question was about the obsolescence of virtuosity. I gave my opinion. Creativity breeds it, artistic freedom nurtures it. This era is devoid of both. We are in agreement.
Aphex Twin is a virtuoso by my standards though he’s in a class of his own.
Any one else think this two guys are PURE GOLD, when they stream together! Just love Tim and Rick duo …
OMG you guys know each other! Both of you are my youtube heroes. This is a treat!
They’ve done a few other vids together. Search them up! Well worth it.
I am currently on tour in Europe with Snarky Puppy and we have 2 shows left to play out of 30. A large percentage of them sold out and in some amazing venues. I think all of these guys would qualify as virtuosos. The audiences are getting more and more diverse and I think that the lack of lyrics really will help them expand their base all over the world as there are no words to understand, just great songs and amazing talent. I also love that they make their records in front of a live audience.
Seriously? Wow, I'd hate it if you guys happened to come to Spain and I missed it. Sparky puppy is one of a kind.
"...making art instead of product"... Tim, that summed it up perfectly.
Kansas was full of virtuosity - every player. But Kerry Livgren is one of the finest composers, orchestrators, lyricists, and multi-instrumentalists in the world. Still true today as a solo artist and leader of Proto-Kaw. So nearly 50 years of greatness!
Kansas, Chicago, Boston, all make me shiver.
@@krollpeter maybe the secret is a geographic band name?
@@jmpeterson70 Good one Jeff! Lol.
Tim is an absolutely incredible player and I really admire his warmth and contagious positivity. So cool to see him on this channel. Cheers you two.
Tim Pierce is criminally under rated .... plays with great taste, he can do it all.
And Mr. Beaton is no slouch either, another Soulful player and you can tell that he loves music with a passion and it shows on his " What Makes This Song Great " series.
IMO there will always be people who appreciate virtuosity and those who don't care. That applies to any kind of things: art, cuisine, cooking BBQ, all kinds of things. Really just about anything people create. The pendulum swings and popularity comes and goes as people get tired of something after a while. Wide interest in virtuosity won't go away forever. It'll come and go.
Of course not.
Look Hizaki former Versailles member now in the band Jupiter.
Look at Miyako from Lovebites.
Saki from Nemophilia, Herman Li Dragonlance. Joe Satriani still putting out great music today.
And that is guitar
On Drums that term would apply to Marina Bozzio from Aldious, Haruna from Lovebites, Junna former drummer from Trident, as well as a few others.
Singing Flor Jensen.
I could list dozens more.
I was lucky enough to meet John Shanks in the mid 90s. He told me his best friend wrote 2 songs that got on a Madonna album and he was set for life. Those were the days.
..and the answer is YES! Technical skills are just data I store in my brain, great songs with great parts remain the soundtrack to my life.
Fortunately, Tim is excellent at doing both things.
Virtuosity is alive and well in Flamenco guitar. I’ve never really heard you mention this jaw dropping genre. Antonio Rey is the new leader out there. Won a Grammy last year. Would love if you went down the Flamenco rabbit hole
"Art rather than Product" sums it up pretty succinctly.
What a guy. Everyone loves Tim. And what a player.
Best regular on this show. Beato gotta do a podcast with him!
Despite his incredible skill, and history. I love Tim Pierce because i just look at him and i am happy, its face lights up a room. he infects with positivity. Love watching you two chat, its great.
Guthrie being mentioned, but you must listen to him with Steven Wilson. Drive Home as a starting point. It's the perfect marriage of virtuosity and servitude in regards to the music. Granted Steven has been writing since the late 80's so I can accept him not belonging to the younger generation. Still heavily worth listening.
Steven Wilson's music is the last gasp of creative well crafted Rock music.
Guys, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Johnny Marr. I just love his rather unique guitar contributions to so many bands over the years, not least of all the Smiths of course, as well as his solo work. They form the foundational riffs and melodies of the songs, but rarely feature any big centre stage solos as such. I never hear him spoken about by folks from the US. In my mind he is a virtuoso. What do you think?
My father was a Nashville Pro (Steel Player) whether in the studio or in a band these guys played together. It was always about the service to the song. Too many young musicians have lots of technique, but are very isolated from each other. In a 5 piece country band the lead guitar and steel always play of each other (Buddy and Leon). Thus the competition just made the music better. I don't see as much interaction between musicians today sadly.
Hey Guys, you are talking about Jason Isbell. The great song, great lyrics and a great guitar playing. Maybe not so worldwide but here in Poland we love him ;-)
There's already been a rock revolution happening in Australia for the last few years. Bands like Amyl and the Sniffers, The Chats, Waax, and a ton of others are making great rock music.
Other Aussie bands I love are:
Drunk Mums
Violent Soho
Lazer Tits
Mini Skirt
Stiff Richards
Pist Idiots
Dumb Punts
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard!
Tropical Fuck Storm - check out the song You Let My Tyres Down, one of the best rock songs of the last 20 years.
I really like Waax and The Chats
none of that is virtuoso, actually the opposite
Talking about virtuousity. I saw Leo Kottke in 1978 at an auditorium on UCLA campus. A solo act. Epic show.
Aaaaand now I know how I'm spending my evening.
Billy Strings, Kingfish are what makes me listen.
Kingfish has the Keys to the Highway, no rear view mirror, foot to the floor. Chuck Berry and BB king are smiling.
This may be too specific, but I love Classic Rock radio when I'm hanging out with friends outdoors, especially on water/boats/docks. It completes the "Summer" experience much more than a playlist. Maybe I'm the only one.
I’m with you
Awesome to see you two amazing gentlemen together. One of my fav. guitarist.... Keith Urban. You should try to interview him RB.
I came to Phx 35 yrs ago from the beaches, homeless from LA. Im a Dr now here. Hey Rick and Tim... keep playing it all
I've spent years trying to become a "virtuoso" guitar player. After watching your video on great virtuoso players doing their own version of the Stairway to Heaven solo, I think I may have been wasting my time, as Jimmy Page's solo trumped them all, imo, and he could hardly be considered a virtuoso. The music should come first.
A good virtuoso is mostly musical as well (Steve Morse, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson etc etc.) it doesn’t have to be „either or“.
Guitar, and guitar solos should always serve the song. A perfect example of that is Dave Gregory, who is a virtuoso, but everything he played with XTC, Tin Spirits and Big Big Train was perfect for the song, no showboating (with some exceptions, like BBT's 'Last Train' and Tin Spirits 'Summer Now')
Virtuosity is not also just SPEED and DIFFICULT shapes or chords, scales etc. , it is ALSO innovation, trying use the COMPLETE palette.
Why use sky blue all of the time when you can use periwinkle or cobalt..
Virtuosity is also making the connection within YOURSELF and the audience, not just a bunch of HIGHLY technical, fast and difficult stuff, with NO SOUL.
Play what fits... Nothing else....
part of it is because stairway to heaven is engraved in our heads the way jimmy played it. it's like as if b.b. king played vai's 'for the love of god'
Everyone always forgets the horns they are part what’s missing in new top hits
Question: How many top musicians and singers interact with each other. That used to be so common in the sixties and seventies. Players learned from each other and played on each other's albums.
Best I can think of is John Mayer but he'd be considered a singer I guess. Mateus does some bits with singers too apparently and Tommy Lee works with Post Malone , and Slash just works with everyone still
Collaborations in the pop, R&B, Electronic world are WAAAAY more common than in the Rock world. In rock collaborating really only started happening in the 90's and later (with some rare exceptions). In the 80's especially and also in the 60's and 70's your band was your band and you didn't drift far away from that. Music was much more competitive back then. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.
@@doublestrokeroll That's not true at all. The stones and the beatles were always hanging out (hell, the beatles even wrote the stones first hit), hendrix played with everybody, Clapton played with everybody and had actual bands with most of them (cream, blind faith, delaney and bonnie, derek and the dominoes), Jeff beck's first solo album had the who's rhythm section on it, the whole relationship between steely dan and the doobie brothers was a thing, then there's that whole british hard rock/metal scene in the 70s and 80s with the various members of sabbath, purple, uriah heep, rainbow etc., the whole interchanging of members of the prog scene in the 70s that led to supergroups like asia in the 80s, Bonham played with mccartney, Lennon played with elton john and bowie, and that's not even getting into the 80s when they'd actually advertise someone like van halen playing with MJ or SRV playing with bowie. So I don't know what version of rock history you've been handed, but collaborations have always been a thing.
@@kyleh1127 yeah in the 60's there were some examples you could cherry pick but it wasn't anywhere near as pervasive as it is in popular music today. EVERYONE collaborates today with everyone else because they understand marketing.
lol...you pointing out things like EVH playing with MJ and Roth doing a solo album were reasons they broke up....hardly proving your point. Those were such rare examples it's precisely why you remember them. Because they didn't happen that often.
Kyle H is absolutely right. My dad was showcasing Fender guitars in London from 1963-1966. Most everyone new everyone and he was considered an old guy at 35. I remember Keith Richards, the Hollie's etc. hanging around him trying to steal licks. They were just kids.
Chris buck is an amazing talent with great feel!
The internet overflows with virtuosity but few can write a decent tune.
If I had the opportunity to play with other musicians, I would certainly do so. I am stuck within my own creative atmosphere. I rely heavily on programming and using plug-ins to achieve a desired outcome (That doesn't make me any less of a musician), sometimes spending countless hours and hours creating a track. No one listens, no one cares, but its all good. It's my own, non commercial, artwork. Yeah, it would be nice to earn a buck or two to pay for some upgrades, or some professional studio time, but the industry doesn't have room for my art. What to do. Only keep creating and enjoying life. This is the modern artist!
The first 45 seconds of this have shown me Rick and Tim are the new Statler and Waldorf (just not as bitter and biting).
Original songs have to touch everyone ! if you can raise the hair on their arms ! Or make them happy or bring a tear ! That's the magic !
OMG I effing love this video.
Virtuoso musicians exist in huge numbers. Old and young, as in TODAY. The problem is that their exposure is limited to their youtube, tik-tok and Instagram profiles. Virtuosity doesn't draw large crowds, it doesn't sell millions upon millions of copies/downloads.
Today's music scene is all superficial BS backed by marginal talent, autotune, teams of writers..... anything and anyone that can move the merch.
The only other exposure I see for today's virtuosos are feature articles in music industry publishings or a youtube video from those publishers.
Rick, I've never heard you say a word about Madison Cunningham. She's a fabulous guitar player, not in the same sense as a shredder, but more like a George Harrison. But above all she's possibly the best songwriter on the planet right now. Every day I find myself walking around the house and humming tunes, and they're almost always Madison's songs!
Japan, and Europe tons of metal, tock bands. Virtuosos plenty. Lovebites, Nemophila, Band Maid, Babymetals Kami band. Nightwish, Sabaton, Evergrey, to name a few. Try Band Maids Onset, an insttumental right thrre with YYZ as my fsvorites. Kansmis influences: Carlos Santana, Larry Carlton, EVH. Lovebites dong Break the wall, some of the most incredible guitar solos. Miyako is a virtuoso on guitar, and concert pianist. She plays guitar and piano same time in Burden of Time. Japan is exploding with talented bands.
All these bands are influenced by classic rock, metal, grunge. Metallica, Zepplin, Deep Purple, etc. Lovebites is a power, thrash metal band. Burden of time in my all time favorite songs. Yes Miyako is playing hammer on power chords on guitar, backing Midoris blazing guitar solo, while soloing on piano.
Wagakki Band are very cool, a fusion of traditional Japanese instruments and rock band.
To me, virtuosity is exactly the definition that Tim gave at the beginning of the video: anyone who excels in art. And by that definition, a great songwriter without chops… is a virtuoso! And so is a shredder in an instrumental band, who writes songs to showcase their skills.
You don’t have to be able to sweep pick an aeolian scale in 16th notes at 200 bpm to be a virtuoso, and you don’t have to write a catchy hook over a memorable chord structure to do it either.
If you excel at art, no matter your discipline or definition of excellence, you are a virtuoso.
Virtuosity is alive and well in Metal.
So many that pair great compositions and over the top playing. For example, Symphony X, great tunes, great vocals, virtuosity pouring.
Two of my favorite guys, talking music, back together!
I might be biased because of my enjoyment of classical music. But people like Itzak Pearlman and Pinkus Zuckerman are virtuosic. I don't know many guitarist that can play at the same level as those two men. But again. They're soloists, and to me a virtuoso is a singular person that is insanely skilled. I don't view it through the lense of an entire band/group.
Agree, but classical is a whole other level
When I saw the video title, classical music was one of the first genres that popped into my head. Playing and singing at extremely high levels of proficiency is the norm in classical instrumental and vocal music, never mind the top soloists.
Totally different animal. It's like the difference between a fiddle player and a violinist. There is a RUclips video of Stewart Copeland explaining the difference somewhere and he hits the nail on the head.
A lot of folk styles around the world still have virtuosity. Flamenco comes to mind, for instance. Arabs and Turks still adore and revere there oud Masters. The Celtic music of Scotland and Ireland features lots of virtuosic performances. In tropical America, people still go nuts over a good bongo or conga player. Same goes for a good salsa pianist. I think the question is to be restricted to western, English speaking pop music. many other musical traditions still revere their virtuosos. And, of course, musicians anywhere and everywhere love them. Always! We really dig it. There’s nothing quite like the feeling of watching a master of the instrument do his or her thing. Glorious stuff. I just watched a master kora player. The man was amazing! His musical tradition was completely different from anything I know but, he definitely knew what he was doing and was an absolute pleasure to watch and listen to.
I know its an older record now and not "pop" in any way but when I hear the word "virtuoso" my mind always goes to Friday Night In San Francisco.... that record (to me anyway) just defines virtuoso... especially Paco De Lucia.
Funny I just listened to that record for the first time in 20 years a few days back. It's looser than I remembered. In a good way. Incredibly human.
I'd rather listen to Neil Young's solo on Like a Hurricane than many so called virtuoso players. Aside from that, the top classical, flamenco, and jazz guitarists are light years beyond any rock guitarist concerning virtuosity.
Part of the problem is that most of the new virtuoso style players are on Instagram and usually work alone on short songs to highlight their playing. It's not about the song.
I can't speak for the rest of you, but I'm placing the death of the wah pedal squarely on Kirk Hammett 🤣😂😅
The problem is the guitar is a live instrument. Van Halen and Led Zeppelin records were meant to capture a live experience in your home, but now live performances are trying to capture a record's experience.
So true
This Cat Tim is my new favorite guitar player. No doubt.Just saw him jamming to Aerosmith. Its been so long since anything "musical" has brought an uncontrolable happiness to me.
Man this guy has it! No wonder he's at the top of the heap!
And Rick here has the most interesting "music appreciation" content out there. This is just great stuff.
The great Rod Price of Foghat (we got cut open for hernias within days of each other in NH
on the same gurney by same Doc was our connection😂) in 2001 stated to me, referring to my gripes at the time and relating to Tim's "hope" here, "music is cyclical" and not to worry. He was so confident about this statement I think Tim will get his wish.
God loves the Rock n Rollers too ya know!
How many Rick Beato subscribers does it take to change a lightbulb? one to change the lightbulb and 3.1 million to discuss how no one can change a lightbulb like they did back in the day
Fellas, I think we all love a memorable, singable melody (and/or guitar solo). I've personally always gravitated toward ear tickling, brain teasing "high information" music, though. Most of what I listen to and like to hear will never be a top 40 song or sung in a church choir, etc. Plini and his contemporaries are right up my alley. But I grew up on Bach and Coltrane. I love simple music, but again, even that isn't typical, like Phillip Glass.. Mimicking Birds, anyone? We had a golden area of guitar driven rock anthems in the 60s-80s, but let it be what it was and move on. It's now "classic" music.
Time magazine has the Edge at 26 and van Halen at number 78 on top 100 rock guitarists of all time. That's like having Taylor Swift at 20th greatest pianists of all time and Oscar Peterson not making the top hundred.
Time Magazine had Hitler on the cover as person of the year....so it kinda sucks. 🤣
That means that Time magazine is just like Life: it hursts sometimes😜
That sounds like a rolling stone Poll
Those magazine "best-of" lists are bullshit anyway, there's no way to objectively rank artists on a list like that and they know it but it gets them clicks and comments.
If you go to a concert by a killer guitarist, someone who has mind-bendingly spectacular technique, the audience will primarily be made up of musicians - especially guitarists, of course. I've attended a few such concerts. We musicians tend to forget that the general public wants to hear something that makes them feel emotion. They really don't care whether the player is a virtuoso. What they care about is how the music makes them feel. Edge being ranked higher than EVH might irritate some guitarists, but evidently the portion of the general public polled at that time felt more of an emotional connection with the music Edge played. If it was only professional guitarists participating in the poll, you might get a different result.
I heard Adele is looking for a guitar player with killer wah technique.
esperanza spalding!!
If my wife and I are just driving around doing errands, the radio is always on. Nearing 60. We don’t have any music subscriptions. Yep, we’re living in the 80s. I listen to books on longer drives. I find listening to music on multi hour drives makes the drive seem slower. But radio is still relevant to many older people.
In a certain way, I think it's good for virtuosity to take a break. I'm 50, def feel I watched a narrowing of what is considered a " good " guitarist over the years. And in many ways I think that homogenized the instrument. The variation between rippers kinda disappeared. Obv I'm generalizing, but so many valid and interesting players got overlooked, or don't get noticed as they weren't virtuoso's. We all remember the end of the 80's, maybe Shrapnel Rec's would be the most glaring example, but a a ton of incredible players who write sound beds to solo over, or really can't write, and wouldn't reaaallly work in an actual band.
Some of the players mentioned Polyphia and Tosin, for getting people into guitar, actually turn a lot of people away! They're interesting and amazing, but for norm's, they're off-putting. I see a lot of kids these days picking up guitar to write songs, and idolizing Joni, NRBQ, etc etc. IN short, I think that songwriting is coming back. My 2 cent's.
A very pertinent comment. Its like virtuosity in Jazz became the 'thing' rather than making music for people to dance to that had the occassional incredible solo. By the 1960's the 'solo' was the entire song, which is why jazz musicians were playing to 50 people in clubs and not thousands in theatres. Most people who listen to music are not musicians so it's a redundant argument about why virtuoso's are not more appreciated, only their peers can appreciate what they do.
So glad you brought this subject up. It’s something I’ve been talking about for years. The amount of work went into the songs was much more than today.
Jacob Collier is the ultimate musician now.
NTS radio is online, but that's a great way to find music you never would have otherwise.
Virtuosity will always be valued by true musicians.
The general public? Not so much.
Sad but true.
That's kind of the point of the video - virtuosity used to be mainstream and regularly heard on the radio.
Sorry I missed this live, but I have discovered Billy Strings in the past few years and this dude really rocks. There are tons of virtuoso flat pick players but Billy is magic when he plays live.
Virtuosity is not only alive and well but resurgent and flourishing in Japanese rock, where multiple bands are driving both the art and the technical musicality to new heights, often brilliantly fusing genres. As I say there are many but I will just mention Band-Maid, Nempohila and Sokoninaru and rest my case. Keep up the great work.
Agreed, and Japan is keeping METAL not just alive but thriving with awesome traditional Japanese instruments flavoring it. Great stuff. I hope Rick does a few vids on Japanese music, Miyazaki and anime music.
Gyze and Lovebites too
Glad to see Tim talk about the importance of great songs, a point I always comment on when Rick talks about amazing players.
John Mayer fits the bill, phenomenal guitar player and song writer.
MAYOR! Not Meyer
He is an average player- sorry facts
@@jakemf1 your facts are objectively incorrect, he's a virtuoso player, you don't have to like the direction his music has taken but facts are facts and your facts ain't them
I saw the two of you last night at the Ebell. One thing you shared is how the RUclipsr community in your circle supports each other and helps others grow in quality and content.
Gary Clark Jr, John Mayer?!? Amazing (virtuoso types). Probably as good as it gets in “mainstream” (loosely speaking)
Good call
So I guess playing in the pocket can't exist now.
With everything so produced that every note, every instrument is perfectly placed to any time signature.
The just playing to play, to enjoy is what is missing. The passion the enjoyment, the spark that is A BAND.
Tim said: Everything will sound like a video game. There are some amazing musical scores on video games: Kingdom Come Deliverance and Skyrim to name a few. I believe Grand Theft Auto even has a role in making songs get popular because they pick existing songs for their soundtrack.
I posted this here because I love your channel Rick and I always have so much to say but no-one ever sees it. Just a few thoughts here ❤️👍✌️🤜🤛
I live in Sedona. It has been a very rainy summer - not in terms of quantity but in terms of it raining somewhere every day. I would have been star struck if I bumped into Rick Beato here.
When I was growing up, all the bands I listened to crafted great musicianship within the confines of well written songs. Consider a song like Jump or Round and Round. Great playing and production but huge hits. I find the You tube world of guitar a bit uninspiring. The level of playing is beyond what I thought was ever possible in many respects but at the end of the day it's amazing bedroom or NAMM show playing at best. It's not like Hendrix Machine Gun or EVH's solo spot on Live Without a Net. They had to get it right on the night. You don't get a second take in front of 20000 fans!
In terms of @timpierce was talking about = band, rock, songwriting, and virtuoso guitaring: Cardinal Black (Chris Buck). Only thing they need is awareness leading to large venues
At first thought I thought that was Marshall Crenshaw lol would love to see that
Some virtuous guitarplayers sometimes don't serve the song. They just jump in and shows off. It is an art to suit the song.
Virtuosity (guitar, drums, vocal) is alive and well in charismatic Japanese bands like BAND-MAID, NEMOPHILA, LOVE BITES, UNLUCKY MORPHEUS, SOKONINARU, ASTERISM, and more.
This view is a little Eurocentric as there is definitely exceptional talent in Japanese metal and rock (and other less know worldwide bands). Right now my favorite band is LOVEBITES and am looking forward to seeing BAND MAID live this October. Last, Miyako of LOVEBITES loves her some wah wah pedal. Peace
What happens a lot is that virtuosos (or people trying to be) tend to forget that the main objective is to serve the song and to do only what it needs. Instead, there’s a lot of ego involved, and there’s a tendency to add extra fluff just to impress.
Thundercat has some great songs and is a virtuoso bass player. Mononeon too. I like Black Midi songs and the drummer rules ... they will never be super famous though...I think JD Beck and Domi could be huge if they write more songs and sing more..They are really young too
@@user-mk4un8nc7o thx 🥰
Virtuosity has been and always will be secondary to the king.
Song is king.
No two ways about it.
SONG is KING.
Always has been.
Virtuosity without good songs is
like wearing $20 socks in $2 shoes.
There are an exceptional amount of bands - I don't think this is fair characterization. Maybe it's semantics, because virtuosity is all over the place now. It's just really difficult to get through the noise. We find our individual players/bands and each of us enjoys our local talent. That's not a loss of virtuosity - that's a shift in the industry and its reach. There's good and bad: people can make it without the labels, but we've lost the mega-star rock bands, because there simply isn't enough gatekeeping to align people's tastes to a limited shared output.
Well said
Tim episodes are the best, I could listen to that guy for hours
I like virtuosic playing and I love featured guitar, but I don’t think virtuosity ever really had a place in much mainstream radio rock music. How many great songs were made better by a solo that required true virtuosic playing? Most of the Journey songs or other groups cited here have solos but you don’t need to be a virtuoso to play them. The Cars had great hooky solos, but I wouldn’t call them virtuosic. And as for Van Halen, Eddie’s songwriting was so good that even if you cut out the solos the songs would be practically as good. Some of their biggest hits like Runnin With the Devil or Dance the Night Away do not have true solos.
If we’re talking in terms of good musicianship (playing in time and in tune) then I agree
Your missing the point. Those virtuoso musicians were writing great songs that were hits and made it into the mainstream, and they were adored by everyone as a result. None of that is true anymore, virtuosos don't write commercially successful songs and aren't celebrated anymore. There is a very clear and undeniable difference between the way it used to work and the way it works now.
Well said.
Just saw Tedeschi Trucks Band. One of the best concerts I’ve ever attended. Don’t miss them if they come to your town!
I love wah. In so many ways.
Supawah
I have a PRS that came with a Floyd Rose. It's a DW CE 24. The DW is for Dustie Waring.... a signature model PRS. I didn't know who Dustie was when I decided to buy the guitar. I bought it because it looked good, and it is. It's a great guitar!
Wish I could be at your show. You mentioned Sound Garden, I actually saw them in Phoenix in 1992. They opened for Guns and Roses at an out door amphitheater. I loved Sound Garden and they did not disappoint. One hell of a show and Sound Garden absolutely communicated so well with the audience. I became a much bigger fan. Sound Garden live is better than recorded. Guns and Roses actually sucked live basically because they were hours late and Axle was a total @ss. They were boo’d off stage.
I think I was at that exact show! Compton Terrace? Somebody decided the appropriate music to play while waiting for Axel to get his punk ass on stage was Public Enemy. It was an... unpopular... choice.
I saw them on that tour as well. We got lucky and G n R were reasonably on time and played well. They were so hit or miss back in those days.
Too bad. Sound Garden was responsible , along with the other Lalapalosers, for killing good musicianship and songwriting in Rock music.
Proof, look at what is being downloaded more, the music between 1964 to 1992,, is more downloaded than music from 1993 to the present.
Grunge and Nu Metal isn't aging too well .
Thank goodness there some great, younger virtuosos in the world of Blues. Larkin Poe, Gary Clark, Jr., Derek Trucks
Another great stream for musicians!
cool chat, Tim is an absolute amazing guitarist, a master
Theres so many bands from the last 10-20 years with great songs and virtuoso lvl playing, because they arent mainstream doesnt mean much to me. The genre of death metal for example is HUGE with a passionate fanbase, but by default they will never be commercial, that doesnt mean there arent any great songs. I hate the idea that it has to be commercially popular to be considered good.
Here, here. Whenever someone brings up music no longer has guitar solos, I think, 'you're not listening to my music...'
I blame the lack of virtuosity and the appreciation of it on shortening attention spans. If you don't have the focus and drive to put in the hours to become highly proficient at a thing yourself, you're not going to appreciate seeing it in others. I enjoy seeing human excellence on display in music, art, science, whatever.
Rick, can you start a nonprofit where older musicians teach the ropes of the business to younger ones, in hopes that virtuosity can make a comeback? I haven't heard this whole segment yet, but did you discuss the lack of music education in many schools nowadays?
I've made a similar plea. Beato is here to expand his audience and sell books. If he could wrangle more $$$ with your suggestion, he would. But he won't.
@@djrychlak4443 I don't believe that for a second.
Virtuosity is everywhere now, as ever it’s meaningless without inspiration and emotion and imperfections. Pop music now is a void of any of this.
@@pytski4345 where do you see all this virtuosity, outside of country music?
@@RadCenter I can name dozens of bands that are working today that would fall into this category. Listen to any nu-metal band, and they are all technical wizards. I'm not saying that they are my favorite bands in the world, but listen to Opted, High on Fire, The Izz, Dream Theater, etc. and tell me that virtuosity is dead.
It's the role of music that has changed. Where listening to music used to be a main thing people did - like you would sit down and listen to a record, the role of music is now secondary. Poeple don't "listen to music" anymore. people watch short videos, in social media or play videos games and music just needs to be in the background and be a good match for whatever the main thing they are doing is. So modern music is made for that. No point spending months perfecting a song when for the most part you can only hope it trends on TikTok shorts
The sad thing is that in the last 10 years music has to deal with an all dominating unwritten rule: only write music that a lot of people want to hear. It kills all creativity to come up with something new, because everyone plays it safe. That’s why a lot of pop music sounds so bland and uninspired. The excitement to be wowed is gone.
You can tell by the 2022 Top40 that this was a disastrous year for pop music. There wasn't even a "summer song". I do agree that pop music in general is very much bankrupt of ideas and this year was a culmination of how bad it has gotten. I honestly don't know where it goes from here.