Heroes didn't REALLY have traditional pinball tables, outside of a few they were just part of the stage design. SA1 tries to have ACTUAL pinball tables with limited balls and bumpers and flippers and goals that light up and tilting and shit, and the physics just RUIN it. With Heroes it's like "okay flip up to the top to continue" and then you get right back to the main gameplay. Though I do wonder if his opinion on "worst pinball in the series" has changed since Frontiers lol. Like I was already shocked SonicTeam went from the godlike Casino Night DLC table in Generations to the awful screen crunch table for the red ring in Frozen Factory 3 in Lost World, but holy shit, Chaos Island "pinball" is both so nothing and so shitty that it essentially confirms to me that no one who worked on the stages in Generations remains at SonicTeam that shit is HORRENDOUS
@@aortaplatinum This massively undersells how irritating the pinball in Heroes is to play. It's both extremely janky and required in that game. In Adventure, not only are they entirely optional, but skipping through them is arguably better for time attack. They also work decently well as pinball side games, unlike Heroes, which is maddening to control
The "Adventure" part in "Sonic Adventure" refers to it being an action-adventure game, where the adventure element comes in the form of the player having to figure out where to go and what to do next in order to progress through the game, like in The Secret of Monkey Island, Tomb Raider, Biohazard/Resident Evil, Silent Hill, et cetera. Sonic Adventure 2 dropped this component but retained the word "Adventure" most probably because it was narratively a direct sequel to the previous game.
@right_in_the_tockles I wasn't trying to say that these things ruin the game. Yeah. No one forces you to play all these parts. I said just that, and recommended not bothering with most of it. I was just trying to judge all the parts of the game for what they are. That includes all the extra characters, and the 100% process. You can just play the fun parts of the game and have a great time with it, but if you want to judge the game as a whole, these things should be considered. They are optional so they don't necessarily have to bring down the game. But they are there, so I wanted to be thorough and analyze them as much as anything else in these games. It's just like how I criticized the special stages in the previous games. I think the game would be better overall if they weren't there. But they don't bother me personally because I can just ignore them.
I 100% the game myself and I was just waiting till you say that exact word about big's extra missions I had in my head: Nightmare - you read my mind! I wasted 30 minutes on twinkle park C mission and got incredibly lucky on emerald cost C finishing under two minutes!
I’ve been watching these videos lately and honestly I’m kinda lost on why the title for the series is “Sonic was always good” after this lol. I dont mean it in a mean way or anything, you’re free to have your own opinions on something good or bad. But its hard to tell why this is called sonic was always good, maybe that’ll change as I watch more though! Good videos so far! On to the next I go
Honestly the sonic adventure series kinda reminds me of both Mario 3D land and Mario 3D world, all of them being solid games and having either a make or break experience
The Chao slander got me shook. I think it's important to keep in mind that the game came out when the Internet was barely a thing. Raising Chao was really the talk of the town back then. Yes, it's ultimately all grinding, but watching your Chao evolve was fantastic. And transferring them between games, including Sonic Advance, was so, so cool. But truthfully, nowadays it doesn't really hold up because it's time-consuming, so I understand your point. But this was a big thing back in the day.
I genuinely do not understand why EVERY SONIC GAME has _unskippable end credits._ Its especially bad in games like Sonic and the Black Knight, where it forces you to watch the end credits, and only AFTER that you unlock the rest of the story... And then once you beat that you have to watch the credits AGAIN!
Another great review, You bring in some pretty good points about how sonic adventure is only enjoyable if you can look past the many flaws. For me personally, I love this game to death, but at the same time there's just as much to love about the game as there is to hate.
Thanks again. Despite this game having so much talk about it already, a lot of it I feel is very unfair. It's either too negative or too positive. People often paint this game as the worst or best game ever, when it's neither. Hopefully I managed to offer a decently fair and balanced look at the game.
@@Pariah6950 True, In all honesty it's sad that opinions on this game often go to such extremes. I think that If sega looked at beta windy valley and tried to make a sonic game with that type of level design from start to finish, then we would have something truly special. But in all likely hood, sega would make another botched port or an underwhelming remake before they even try experimenting with complex level design again. Then again, at least we have fangames like srb2 until sega inevitably gives it a shot once more.
@@Pariah6950 While I liked the review and different take on reviewing Sonic Adventure I feel a lot of people forget that Sonic is a children's franchise so things like bosses and how easy things get makes sense I'm not saying adults can't play or enjoy them but I do think people are a little too critical when their above the demographic these games are for.
I actually had a part in the video discussing this exact thing, but I cut it for time. To a degree, I agree. We Sonic fans do get hyper critical of games for children. To a kid, almost all of the flaws are nearly invisible and the games can be super fun. They were for me when I was a kid. But at the same time, Sonic games aren't just for kids. The original 2D games are generally solid games all around, for anyone of any age. They are well designed and well made. And I do think it's fair to criticize a game that drops so far below the bar that the earlier games set. The whole, "It's for kids" thing can often be used as an excuse for making something straight-up bad. There are plenty of things for kids that are not only good, but just as good as anything made for adults.
I’ve never understood complaints about hub worlds in 3D Platformer’s. It’s like some people have this very rigid understanding of what a game should be and if anything feels like it’s taking away from just straightforward core mechanics based systems then it’s a waste of time. There’s ineffable qualities to the spaces between levels. They’re like a comforting breather, they add texture and flavor to the world, they make you actually feel like you’re apart of something bigger. They’re charming, relaxing, and further allow you to mess around with mechanics without the pressure to succeed that comes with levels.
I'm all for that. Plenty of platformers have great hub worlds. But in this case, I'd argue they harm the pacing of the game too much. You spend more time in the hub worlds than actual levels in Amy's and Big's campaigns.
@@Pariah6950 I’m not even a huge fan of this game in particular, so I understand your point, but I was more so just talking generally because it’s a sentiment I’ve seen many times that I just don’t fully get. I know you’re a fan of Mario Sunshine’s hub so I know this isn’t your take overall on hubs.
I want to defend some of the other characters a bit. 1) Big is shit and I'm not gonna defend him at all. The one thing I can say abotu Big that isn't shit is that his levels actually have hidden areas which are cool. Unfortunately, these maps would work way better as Knuckles levels to find the emeralds in 2) Amy is overhated. Her Twinkle Park level is actually genuinely a good level that wouldn't work with any other character and is the one level where Zero seems like a threat (he isn't but he seems like it on a first playthrough and even after you realise he's shit, the stage still has a creepy and horror vibe that makes Zero's chase seem more effective). Hot Shelter is an interesting level that isn't traversed as any other character except Gamma (and Big technically but he only goes through a small portion of the stage) and even Gamma doesn't go through the level in the same way as Amy. Final Egg is admittedly not that interesting of a stage but it's also a short stage so I can't hate it. I will admit using Amy in the overworld is shit but if you just play the stages, there is enjoyment to be had here as long as you know about Amy's hammer jump 3) Tails doesn't only just have 2 good levels (Sky Deck & Speed Highway). I like Windy Valley as a tutorial level. For new players, they can get used to Tail's flying here to get through the level. If you're a good player, you can use Tail's flight to try and break the level as much as you can but you have to be careful of the death planes. Casinopolis isn't a bad level either. The very start of the level teaches you how Tail's flight is important for flying up instead of just running up which is slow due to the momentum based physics of the game and the level also makes good use of Tail's rolling ability when you're running down those narrow corridors. Ice Cap is a genuinely great stage so I honestly don't really even mind that it's just a copy from Sonic's stage, although yeah I absolutely would've been happier if they changed the gameplay to use Tail's actual moveset instead of just snowboarding. Sand Hill is also a nice Tails specific level but again, it would've been cool to have Sonic go through this level with the snowboard and have Tails traverse it in his own way. My issue with Tail's campaign apart from the repeated sections from Sonic (Chaos 4, Sky Chase, Ice Cap) is the sections the game chooses to let or not let you play as Tails in. Tails is very fun to control and I wish the game just let you play through most if not all of Sonic's story. Going through Windy Valley doesn't seem as pointless when the section that you normally traverse as Tails is just a short portion of the level. Using mods, you can play through Sonic's story entirely as Tails and it's so much fun going through Emerald Coast, Windy Valley, Twinkle Park, Final Egg using a character that's even more broken than Sonic is with his spin dash. There are tricks to break the level that you can use as Tails that Sonic can't use and vice versa. Play through Sonic's levels as Tail's and you will get enjoyment out of it. I can almost guarantee it 4) I actually like Gamma's gameplay. It's far better than the mech gameplay we ended up with in SA2 imo. Final Egg is just a pointless tutorial but I get at least some enjoyment out of the rest of his stages. Emerald Coast, while almost as short as Final Egg does have some interesting movement at points. Windy Valley is pretty fun despite also being pretty short and Red Mountain is a fun stage with nice skips available. The boss fights in WIndy Valley and Red Mountain are shit but putting a more complex boss at the end of these levels could actually make the timer on these levels actually somewhat problematic, especially when trying to complete the A Missions. Hot Shelter is a great stage for Gamma in this game imo too and the boss is slightly more complex than the boss in the prior levels 5) Knuckles levels were the only other character you really gave any credit and I basically agree with you here. I think that his gameplay is better here than the Knuckles/Rouge gameplay is in SA2, basically just because of the nerfed radar in SA2 along with all the other changes made to these levels like the nerfed hint system and larger levels (while on their own aren't bad ideas, when combined with the nerfed radar makes these levels way less enjoyable than they should be)
I do respect your opinion on some things and all, in fact I think you are providing a very unique take for the series. But I question your take for playing some of the levels and how you consider things fun and different. Like I get you wanting to use Sonic to freely roam the level and get the end as soon as you can... But my issue is... What about challenge runs then? Runs where you challenge yourself to see how far you can go and enjoy the experience with a different handle outside of what the in game challenge asks you, like making up your own or a popular fan one. Say one with the least amounts of jumps.... Then again maybe that’s a different topic then a review or retrospective type video.
So the whole skewed angle of gravity thing in the adventure engine is part of what makes it for me. It’s what allows for those stratospheric spin dash jumps, and I love getting cute with it in downward sloped levels where you can lock in an angle by keeping your air speed up
Think you did a great on a lot of your points, i think you miss what people find enjoyable about the hub worlds. It's that clear you value gameplay most, and that's perfectly valid, it's the reason why you could notice all the fine details in the physics. But reasons i and most other people enjoy the hub world isn't for gameplay reasons. Persoanly i feel the helps make the world around you feel more connected, like in my mind i make a map of where each location is. For example The beach is near the hotel which has a chao garden and light speed dash up grade. I also can see the small arcs that each NPC has and hunt for chao eggs hidden around. Details like that just make the game feel more realized as a world. They can be annoying if you don't care about that but there reasons some people enjoy it.
That I do like. But other games have done a much better job of having hub worlds that have that affect, but can also have fun gameplay in them. Delfino Plaza in Mario Sunshine is a good example. It's got a ton of charm and personality, and there's a lot of fun stuff to do there.
@@Pariah6950 Gameplay wise Delfino Plaza is Superior but I feel that the hub world and levels feel more disconnected. In most cases you find graffiti, spray it then jump in and your magically transported to another parts of the island. I feel that SA1's levels are more organically connected to the hub world, you have to take a boat to reach the fallen egg carrier or look in the jungle to find the entrance of the temple.
@@radiokunio3738 It really makes me wish that the whole train system that was originally going to be included in Sunshine (but most likely got removed due to time constraints) actually made it in the game. Sunshine was supposed to include a collectable called Sol Rings, which were meant to be a form of currency for tickets that could be used for taking these trains to different levels across the island. But obviously, that didn’t happen which is a huge shame cause it really would’ve made all the levels feel more connected.
@@sonicmegaplus6913 Oh yes, you’re right! My dearest apologies for making such a massive mistake like mixing up the rings and coins, I’ll make sure to edit that important change into my comment right this instant!
I recently saw a review of Sonic Adventure 2 where the reviewer really laid into it. His biggest issues were the camera, the glitches (ports are significantly worse then the original in this regard) and that the game is only fun once you are replaying it. This review is basically saying SA1 is significantly less fun once you reached the skill ceiling and just blow through the levels. In both instances the reviewer fails to even attempt to play the game the way it was intended to be played. Yeah Gamma is boring if you dont even try to engage with the shooting mechanic his gameplay is built around. Sky chase is not amazing, but its a decent enough shooting mini game, unless you decide just to put the plain in a corner and not even play it. Gee, exploiting a game and not even attempting to play it is less fun then playing it? Who would have guessed. All this review proves is the old adage "Given the opportunity to, players will optimize the fun out of a video game" is very true.
What you call exploiting, I call playing. The goal is to complete the level. I attempt to achieve that goal as efficiently as I can. It's the game's fault for being poorly designed that doing so does not require I actually play the game the way it's meant to be played. In a game that's well designed, these things would not be possible. Playing well and playing as intended would be the same thing. And it's not really that much of a skill ceiling. I don't think "any input at all" is a high bar to ask the player to reach. Also, I do talk about actually playing the Gamma and plane levels "correctly" when I talk about 100%. Still not very good.
11:03 I think a good way to improve Sky Chase would be to have the Enemies fly towards you instead of past you, forcing you to stay on your toes and maneuver around them to not get hit.
At least the bosses here are cool in concept, I think it would've been great if the boss fights were just part of the cutscenes honestly, which I really like btw even if there's too many cause I think the story is really good. The NPCs around the hub areas are cool because they each have their own little story that progresses with yours, or they react to the stuff that happens in the world. It adds a lot of personality to a game that already has plenty, something a lot of modern games even fail to do, something that Frontiers probably won't even attempt. I'm not defending the hub areas themselves but the NPCs are nice and make you care about the world, which paired with the great story just makes the game so memorable. And this isn't nostalgia talking cause I played this in 2020 for the first time. Also I'll tell you why people say Tails' campaign is good: cause it's Tails. They never focus on his character, so us Tails fans will take what we can get. I don't personally think that the campaign is good gameplay-wise though, except Sky Deck and Speed Highway like you said. For Gamma it's a similar deal cause he's a great character whose story begins and ends with this game which I think makes him very memorable, and the gameplay is serviceable enough so it's ultimately still fun. Also he turns into a tank come on that's fucking sick. _Also_ also: Amy > Knuckles, fight me
I really don't agree with you in that all Sonic boss fights are bad, I personally really like Sonic bosses, but hey, that could just be me, I don't know. I can't say that Sky Chase was my "Least favorite" part of Sonic 2 (I'd say that goes to Metropolis), but again, might just be me. I also like how you pointed out that Big's levels are really easy. I personally like this game, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Sonic did have a rough transition to 3D, but I think that's OK.
Fuck the fishing hole in ocarina of time As a kid I was able to beat it and get the golden scale But years later I replay the game and am going for 100% The only thing I didn’t get is the golden scale and the heart piece in the laboratory Because I just couldn’t catch the fuckin fish The funny thing is, my copy of ocarina of time 3d is used and has a save file where they do have the golden scale
Going back and playing some of the stuff I used to play as a kid is always fascinating in a way where it's like "How the fuck did I beat this as a child?"
I have to disagree with the hubworld stuff. Your thoughts on if the hubworld has any real value for actual gameplay is pretty spot on, but in case of getting lost as a new player, almost every npc in the hub will either tell you what to do or discuss whatever current event just happened. The world is constantly changing with people constantly helping on your adventure, I think brings a sense of immersion. It could be done a million times better sure, but there was an appreciative attempt made. Sometimes something is better than nothing
I really do not agree with the Gamma criticism. Not engaging with the gameplay isn't the game's problem and isnt a flaw. Going by that logic, DMC 3 sucks ass because you dont have to use anything other than rebellion and using the styles can be ignored therefore they are bad and DMC3 is a boring terrible game. Ultrakill sucks because you can beat the game with just the pistol and ignore enemy weaknesses, etc etc. Sure, the insentive to kill the enemies is weak but this is assuming that the intrinsic insentive doesnt matter at all which is just not how this works, if you are playing a shooting gallary you should want to shoot the damn enemies and not doing so is self-sabotaging your fun for no good reason. Other than that, I (for the most part, there are some other things I disagree with you on but i dont want to make this comment longer than it already is) agree with what you had to say about SA1's gameplay, characters and levels.
22:42 Knuckles' gameplay has a lot of potential & would fit very well as a combat/exploration style game in an open world setting. If Sonic ever decided to focus some on Knuckles, they could have a hit game. Just take Sonic Frontiers & replace sonic with Knuckles. Obviously there would be a bit more work put than Sonic Frontiers but it would be fun.
I wonder why you refer to the rings in Sonic as "coins" when they are clearly rings? Also I didn't mind Amy's campaign, I just wish she got more then three stages.
It's a running joke in this Sonic Was Always Good review series, making fun of people who call what are obviously rings "coins". It's in the Heroes video I think where he acknowledges it and then starts calling them by different collectible names from other platformers in every video, like gems or wumpa fruit or music notes.
I could never quite pinpoint why, but I think you just nailed some of the biggest reasons I always f*cking *hated* Sonic Adventure 2. All it is is grind, homing attack sequence, light speed dash. Fail to time the dash correctly, you die. Retry until you complete the sequence. And then a new sequence begins, same as the last. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Level ends. Cycle starts all over again. From the beginning to the end of the game. The grinding was a cool idea, but along with the homing attack chains and light speed dash they overused it to hell and back in SA2. I also hated how they changed Tails' gameplay to basically be E-102. The original game's splitting play styles by characters was also superior, SA2 forces you to take all the crap when you just want to play Sonic's or Shadow's levels. Such a shitty game. Give me the original Sonic Adventure any day.
This was when Sonic permanently committed itself to being as much like a shit-tier 4Kids-licensed anime as possible and forgot how important rolling into a ball was.
This game a piece of shit i bought it in the xbox series s and is a mess the box fights are stupid the animations are a piece of shit and the physics are pathetic
The fact that Pariah695 thinks Adventure's pinball tables are the worst in the series makes me think he hasn't played Heroes yet.
Idk there all the same to me
i thought adventure ones were good
Heroes didn't REALLY have traditional pinball tables, outside of a few they were just part of the stage design. SA1 tries to have ACTUAL pinball tables with limited balls and bumpers and flippers and goals that light up and tilting and shit, and the physics just RUIN it. With Heroes it's like "okay flip up to the top to continue" and then you get right back to the main gameplay.
Though I do wonder if his opinion on "worst pinball in the series" has changed since Frontiers lol. Like I was already shocked SonicTeam went from the godlike Casino Night DLC table in Generations to the awful screen crunch table for the red ring in Frozen Factory 3 in Lost World, but holy shit, Chaos Island "pinball" is both so nothing and so shitty that it essentially confirms to me that no one who worked on the stages in Generations remains at SonicTeam that shit is HORRENDOUS
@@aortaplatinum
This massively undersells how irritating the pinball in Heroes is to play. It's both extremely janky and required in that game. In Adventure, not only are they entirely optional, but skipping through them is arguably better for time attack. They also work decently well as pinball side games, unlike Heroes, which is maddening to control
People love Gamma just for the story. That ending hits in the feels.
It did me, he's my favourite Character out of Sonic Adventure.
The "Adventure" part in "Sonic Adventure" refers to it being an action-adventure game, where the adventure element comes in the form of the player having to figure out where to go and what to do next in order to progress through the game, like in The Secret of Monkey Island, Tomb Raider, Biohazard/Resident Evil, Silent Hill, et cetera.
Sonic Adventure 2 dropped this component but retained the word "Adventure" most probably because it was narratively a direct sequel to the previous game.
When he pulled out the Chao editor I started coughing up a lung with Laughter oh my god😭😭
Remember, this series is called "Sonic was Always Good."
I had to remind myself of that.
Hey, I like the game. But I'm not going to ignore flaws.
@right_in_the_tockles I wasn't trying to say that these things ruin the game. Yeah. No one forces you to play all these parts. I said just that, and recommended not bothering with most of it.
I was just trying to judge all the parts of the game for what they are. That includes all the extra characters, and the 100% process. You can just play the fun parts of the game and have a great time with it, but if you want to judge the game as a whole, these things should be considered.
They are optional so they don't necessarily have to bring down the game. But they are there, so I wanted to be thorough and analyze them as much as anything else in these games.
It's just like how I criticized the special stages in the previous games. I think the game would be better overall if they weren't there. But they don't bother me personally because I can just ignore them.
Just a play on the Sonic Was Never Great meme.
The hub worlds are worth it just for the mystic ruins theme, also I feel like the only one who likes playing as big
This game does have acts, but there are not separate
13:15 oh so that's why you call those coins.
And also why he's wrong
😭😭😭😭 roasted the Chao garden as I'm raising a set in SA2B on my Xbox Series S
I 100% the game myself and I was just waiting till you say that exact word about big's extra missions I had in my head: Nightmare - you read my mind! I wasted 30 minutes on twinkle park C mission and got incredibly lucky on emerald cost C finishing under two minutes!
I’ve been watching these videos lately and honestly I’m kinda lost on why the title for the series is “Sonic was always good” after this lol. I dont mean it in a mean way or anything, you’re free to have your own opinions on something good or bad. But its hard to tell why this is called sonic was always good, maybe that’ll change as I watch more though! Good videos so far! On to the next I go
The title means that he enjoy almost every Sonic game, and some of the bad ones does have some enjoyment in them
I love this game!
Honestly the sonic adventure series kinda reminds me of both Mario 3D land and Mario 3D world, all of them being solid games and having either a make or break experience
The Chao slander got me shook. I think it's important to keep in mind that the game came out when the Internet was barely a thing. Raising Chao was really the talk of the town back then. Yes, it's ultimately all grinding, but watching your Chao evolve was fantastic. And transferring them between games, including Sonic Advance, was so, so cool. But truthfully, nowadays it doesn't really hold up because it's time-consuming, so I understand your point. But this was a big thing back in the day.
His tastes in videogames are very deviant.
@@ericamaya2467 Based, you mean?
I genuinely do not understand why EVERY SONIC GAME has _unskippable end credits._ Its especially bad in games like Sonic and the Black Knight, where it forces you to watch the end credits, and only AFTER that you unlock the rest of the story... And then once you beat that you have to watch the credits AGAIN!
Another great review, You bring in some pretty good points about how sonic adventure is only enjoyable if you can look past the many flaws. For me personally, I love this game to death, but at the same time there's just as much to love about the game as there is to hate.
Thanks again. Despite this game having so much talk about it already, a lot of it I feel is very unfair. It's either too negative or too positive. People often paint this game as the worst or best game ever, when it's neither. Hopefully I managed to offer a decently fair and balanced look at the game.
@@Pariah6950 True, In all honesty it's sad that opinions on this game often go to such extremes. I think that If sega looked at beta windy valley and tried to make a sonic game with that type of level design from start to finish, then we would have something truly special. But in all likely hood, sega would make another botched port or an underwhelming remake before they even try experimenting with complex level design again. Then again, at least we have fangames like srb2 until sega inevitably gives it a shot once more.
@@Pariah6950 While I liked the review and different take on reviewing Sonic Adventure I feel a lot of people forget that Sonic is a children's franchise so things like bosses and how easy things get makes sense I'm not saying adults can't play or enjoy them but I do think people are a little too critical when their above the demographic these games are for.
@@Pariah6950 no what ur talking about?
U sure havent meet me lmao
I actually had a part in the video discussing this exact thing, but I cut it for time. To a degree, I agree. We Sonic fans do get hyper critical of games for children. To a kid, almost all of the flaws are nearly invisible and the games can be super fun. They were for me when I was a kid. But at the same time, Sonic games aren't just for kids. The original 2D games are generally solid games all around, for anyone of any age. They are well designed and well made. And I do think it's fair to criticize a game that drops so far below the bar that the earlier games set. The whole, "It's for kids" thing can often be used as an excuse for making something straight-up bad. There are plenty of things for kids that are not only good, but just as good as anything made for adults.
Here you forgot to add "chapter" timestamps like the ones from the previous video
I love these btw
When there are timestamps, it kinda screws the maker out of revenue because the entire video isn't being viewed.
@@karnagefails333still a nice thing to have. Not like he doesn't have them in most of his videos, either.
I’ve never understood complaints about hub worlds in 3D Platformer’s. It’s like some people have this very rigid understanding of what a game should be and if anything feels like it’s taking away from just straightforward core mechanics based systems then it’s a waste of time. There’s ineffable qualities to the spaces between levels. They’re like a comforting breather, they add texture and flavor to the world, they make you actually feel like you’re apart of something bigger. They’re charming, relaxing, and further allow you to mess around with mechanics without the pressure to succeed that comes with levels.
I'm all for that. Plenty of platformers have great hub worlds. But in this case, I'd argue they harm the pacing of the game too much. You spend more time in the hub worlds than actual levels in Amy's and Big's campaigns.
@@Pariah6950 I’m not even a huge fan of this game in particular, so I understand your point, but I was more so just talking generally because it’s a sentiment I’ve seen many times that I just don’t fully get. I know you’re a fan of Mario Sunshine’s hub so I know this isn’t your take overall on hubs.
I want to defend some of the other characters a bit.
1) Big is shit and I'm not gonna defend him at all. The one thing I can say abotu Big that isn't shit is that his levels actually have hidden areas which are cool. Unfortunately, these maps would work way better as Knuckles levels to find the emeralds in
2) Amy is overhated. Her Twinkle Park level is actually genuinely a good level that wouldn't work with any other character and is the one level where Zero seems like a threat (he isn't but he seems like it on a first playthrough and even after you realise he's shit, the stage still has a creepy and horror vibe that makes Zero's chase seem more effective). Hot Shelter is an interesting level that isn't traversed as any other character except Gamma (and Big technically but he only goes through a small portion of the stage) and even Gamma doesn't go through the level in the same way as Amy. Final Egg is admittedly not that interesting of a stage but it's also a short stage so I can't hate it. I will admit using Amy in the overworld is shit but if you just play the stages, there is enjoyment to be had here as long as you know about Amy's hammer jump
3) Tails doesn't only just have 2 good levels (Sky Deck & Speed Highway). I like Windy Valley as a tutorial level. For new players, they can get used to Tail's flying here to get through the level. If you're a good player, you can use Tail's flight to try and break the level as much as you can but you have to be careful of the death planes. Casinopolis isn't a bad level either. The very start of the level teaches you how Tail's flight is important for flying up instead of just running up which is slow due to the momentum based physics of the game and the level also makes good use of Tail's rolling ability when you're running down those narrow corridors. Ice Cap is a genuinely great stage so I honestly don't really even mind that it's just a copy from Sonic's stage, although yeah I absolutely would've been happier if they changed the gameplay to use Tail's actual moveset instead of just snowboarding. Sand Hill is also a nice Tails specific level but again, it would've been cool to have Sonic go through this level with the snowboard and have Tails traverse it in his own way.
My issue with Tail's campaign apart from the repeated sections from Sonic (Chaos 4, Sky Chase, Ice Cap) is the sections the game chooses to let or not let you play as Tails in. Tails is very fun to control and I wish the game just let you play through most if not all of Sonic's story. Going through Windy Valley doesn't seem as pointless when the section that you normally traverse as Tails is just a short portion of the level. Using mods, you can play through Sonic's story entirely as Tails and it's so much fun going through Emerald Coast, Windy Valley, Twinkle Park, Final Egg using a character that's even more broken than Sonic is with his spin dash. There are tricks to break the level that you can use as Tails that Sonic can't use and vice versa. Play through Sonic's levels as Tail's and you will get enjoyment out of it. I can almost guarantee it
4) I actually like Gamma's gameplay. It's far better than the mech gameplay we ended up with in SA2 imo. Final Egg is just a pointless tutorial but I get at least some enjoyment out of the rest of his stages. Emerald Coast, while almost as short as Final Egg does have some interesting movement at points. Windy Valley is pretty fun despite also being pretty short and Red Mountain is a fun stage with nice skips available. The boss fights in WIndy Valley and Red Mountain are shit but putting a more complex boss at the end of these levels could actually make the timer on these levels actually somewhat problematic, especially when trying to complete the A Missions. Hot Shelter is a great stage for Gamma in this game imo too and the boss is slightly more complex than the boss in the prior levels
5) Knuckles levels were the only other character you really gave any credit and I basically agree with you here. I think that his gameplay is better here than the Knuckles/Rouge gameplay is in SA2, basically just because of the nerfed radar in SA2 along with all the other changes made to these levels like the nerfed hint system and larger levels (while on their own aren't bad ideas, when combined with the nerfed radar makes these levels way less enjoyable than they should be)
Sonic adventure is good because sonic is in the game and he’s playable that honestly all I need
There's a mod that makes casinopolis a normal level
What mod is that?
45:28 Out of context this would sound VERY strange. 💀
I do respect your opinion on some things and all, in fact I think you are providing a very unique take for the series. But I question your take for playing some of the levels and how you consider things fun and different. Like I get you wanting to use Sonic to freely roam the level and get the end as soon as you can... But my issue is... What about challenge runs then? Runs where you challenge yourself to see how far you can go and enjoy the experience with a different handle outside of what the in game challenge asks you, like making up your own or a popular fan one. Say one with the least amounts of jumps....
Then again maybe that’s a different topic then a review or retrospective type video.
Don't some of the NPC's point you towards the next objective?
They do, all of the progression is telegraphed in some way
So the whole skewed angle of gravity thing in the adventure engine is part of what makes it for me. It’s what allows for those stratospheric spin dash jumps, and I love getting cute with it in downward sloped levels where you can lock in an angle by keeping your air speed up
Think you did a great on a lot of your points, i think you miss what people find enjoyable about the hub worlds. It's that clear you value gameplay most, and that's perfectly valid, it's the reason why you could notice all the fine details in the physics. But reasons i and most other people enjoy the hub world isn't for gameplay reasons. Persoanly i feel the helps make the world around you feel more connected, like in my mind i make a map of where each location is. For example The beach is near the hotel which has a chao garden and light speed dash up grade. I also can see the small arcs that each NPC has and hunt for chao eggs hidden around. Details like that just make the game feel more realized as a world. They can be annoying if you don't care about that but there reasons some people enjoy it.
That I do like. But other games have done a much better job of having hub worlds that have that affect, but can also have fun gameplay in them. Delfino Plaza in Mario Sunshine is a good example. It's got a ton of charm and personality, and there's a lot of fun stuff to do there.
@@Pariah6950 Gameplay wise Delfino Plaza is Superior but I feel that the hub world and levels feel more disconnected. In most cases you find graffiti, spray it then jump in and your magically transported to another parts of the island. I feel that SA1's levels are more organically connected to the hub world, you have to take a boat to reach the fallen egg carrier or look in the jungle to find the entrance of the temple.
@@radiokunio3738 It really makes me wish that the whole train system that was originally going to be included in Sunshine (but most likely got removed due to time constraints) actually
made it in the game.
Sunshine was supposed to include a collectable called Sol Rings, which were meant to be a form of currency for tickets that could be used for taking these trains to different levels across the island. But obviously, that didn’t happen which is a huge shame cause it really would’ve made all the levels feel more connected.
@@murdcrockdolphin I think you mean Sol Rings. Coins are in Sonic, not Mario. Mario has Rings, remember?
@@sonicmegaplus6913 Oh yes, you’re right! My dearest apologies for making such a massive mistake like mixing up the rings and coins, I’ll make sure to edit that important change into my comment right this instant!
Zero used to scare the absolute CRAP out of me lol amy's campaign was like a horror game for my 8 year old self
I recently saw a review of Sonic Adventure 2 where the reviewer really laid into it. His biggest issues were the camera, the glitches (ports are significantly worse then the original in this regard) and that the game is only fun once you are replaying it.
This review is basically saying SA1 is significantly less fun once you reached the skill ceiling and just blow through the levels.
In both instances the reviewer fails to even attempt to play the game the way it was intended to be played. Yeah Gamma is boring if you dont even try to engage with the shooting mechanic his gameplay is built around. Sky chase is not amazing, but its a decent enough shooting mini game, unless you decide just to put the plain in a corner and not even play it. Gee, exploiting a game and not even attempting to play it is less fun then playing it? Who would have guessed.
All this review proves is the old adage "Given the opportunity to, players will optimize the fun out of a video game" is very true.
What you call exploiting, I call playing. The goal is to complete the level. I attempt to achieve that goal as efficiently as I can. It's the game's fault for being poorly designed that doing so does not require I actually play the game the way it's meant to be played. In a game that's well designed, these things would not be possible. Playing well and playing as intended would be the same thing. And it's not really that much of a skill ceiling. I don't think "any input at all" is a high bar to ask the player to reach.
Also, I do talk about actually playing the Gamma and plane levels "correctly" when I talk about 100%. Still not very good.
I want to know if boss fights in sonic games were actually play tested and what they were thinking lol
I love the Chao! They are my favourite part of Sonic Adventure 1&2.
11:03 I think a good way to improve Sky Chase would be to have the Enemies fly towards you instead of past you, forcing you to stay on your toes and maneuver around them to not get hit.
At least the bosses here are cool in concept, I think it would've been great if the boss fights were just part of the cutscenes honestly, which I really like btw even if there's too many cause I think the story is really good. The NPCs around the hub areas are cool because they each have their own little story that progresses with yours, or they react to the stuff that happens in the world. It adds a lot of personality to a game that already has plenty, something a lot of modern games even fail to do, something that Frontiers probably won't even attempt. I'm not defending the hub areas themselves but the NPCs are nice and make you care about the world, which paired with the great story just makes the game so memorable. And this isn't nostalgia talking cause I played this in 2020 for the first time.
Also I'll tell you why people say Tails' campaign is good: cause it's Tails. They never focus on his character, so us Tails fans will take what we can get. I don't personally think that the campaign is good gameplay-wise though, except Sky Deck and Speed Highway like you said. For Gamma it's a similar deal cause he's a great character whose story begins and ends with this game which I think makes him very memorable, and the gameplay is serviceable enough so it's ultimately still fun. Also he turns into a tank come on that's fucking sick.
_Also_ also: Amy > Knuckles, fight me
Modders do what seg’ dont
I really don't agree with you in that all Sonic boss fights are bad, I personally really like Sonic bosses, but hey, that could just be me, I don't know. I can't say that Sky Chase was my "Least favorite" part of Sonic 2 (I'd say that goes to Metropolis), but again, might just be me. I also like how you pointed out that Big's levels are really easy. I personally like this game, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Sonic did have a rough transition to 3D, but I think that's OK.
What do you think about the other autodemo stages?
Fuck the fishing hole in ocarina of time
As a kid I was able to beat it and get the golden scale
But years later I replay the game and am going for 100%
The only thing I didn’t get is the golden scale and the heart piece in the laboratory
Because I just couldn’t catch the fuckin fish
The funny thing is, my copy of ocarina of time 3d is used and has a save file where they do have the golden scale
Going back and playing some of the stuff I used to play as a kid is always fascinating in a way where it's like "How the fuck did I beat this as a child?"
I have to disagree with the hubworld stuff. Your thoughts on if the hubworld has any real value for actual gameplay is pretty spot on, but in case of getting lost as a new player, almost every npc in the hub will either tell you what to do or discuss whatever current event just happened. The world is constantly changing with people constantly helping on your adventure, I think brings a sense of immersion. It could be done a million times better sure, but there was an appreciative attempt made. Sometimes something is better than nothing
44:33 Lmao, you’re we’re going crazy
I really do not agree with the Gamma criticism. Not engaging with the gameplay isn't the game's problem and isnt a flaw. Going by that logic, DMC 3 sucks ass because you dont have to use anything other than rebellion and using the styles can be ignored therefore they are bad and DMC3 is a boring terrible game. Ultrakill sucks because you can beat the game with just the pistol and ignore enemy weaknesses, etc etc. Sure, the insentive to kill the enemies is weak but this is assuming that the intrinsic insentive doesnt matter at all which is just not how this works, if you are playing a shooting gallary you should want to shoot the damn enemies and not doing so is self-sabotaging your fun for no good reason.
Other than that, I (for the most part, there are some other things I disagree with you on but i dont want to make this comment longer than it already is) agree with what you had to say about SA1's gameplay, characters and levels.
22:42 Knuckles' gameplay has a lot of potential & would fit very well as a combat/exploration style game in an open world setting. If Sonic ever decided to focus some on Knuckles, they could have a hit game. Just take Sonic Frontiers & replace sonic with Knuckles. Obviously there would be a bit more work put than Sonic Frontiers but it would be fun.
best sonic takes of all time. sonic gameplay is amazing but idk why ppl have 2 cope n pretend that all the gameplay styles r equally good.
Not everyone pretends, people have different opinions.
Says the Dragon Ball tard
I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone saying that all gameplay styles in this game are equally good
Gamma’s levels was the biggest wasted potential in the franchise. You get his hover near the end of his campaign, bruh
48:50 Wait what which mod is that? Damn
48:44 bruh
Wait, is Sonic Adventure bad?
I wonder why you refer to the rings in Sonic as "coins" when they are clearly rings?
Also I didn't mind Amy's campaign, I just wish she got more then three stages.
It's a running joke in this Sonic Was Always Good review series, making fun of people who call what are obviously rings "coins". It's in the Heroes video I think where he acknowledges it and then starts calling them by different collectible names from other platformers in every video, like gems or wumpa fruit or music notes.
@@aortaplatinum Thank you for the context.
46:08 suicide jokes are not funny. Yamete. amazing review otherwise. SA1 is life! yeee haaaa!!
I could never quite pinpoint why, but I think you just nailed some of the biggest reasons I always f*cking *hated* Sonic Adventure 2. All it is is grind, homing attack sequence, light speed dash. Fail to time the dash correctly, you die. Retry until you complete the sequence. And then a new sequence begins, same as the last. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Level ends. Cycle starts all over again. From the beginning to the end of the game.
The grinding was a cool idea, but along with the homing attack chains and light speed dash they overused it to hell and back in SA2. I also hated how they changed Tails' gameplay to basically be E-102. The original game's splitting play styles by characters was also superior, SA2 forces you to take all the crap when you just want to play Sonic's or Shadow's levels.
Such a shitty game. Give me the original Sonic Adventure any day.
This guy sure loves to butcher the artistic visions of game creators.
This was when Sonic permanently committed itself to being as much like a shit-tier 4Kids-licensed anime as possible and forgot how important rolling into a ball was.
This game a piece of shit i bought it in the xbox series s and is a mess the box fights are stupid the animations are a piece of shit and the physics are pathetic