-musician: Benno Moiseiwitsch -piece: Schumann Fantasiestucke op. 12, 'Warum?' -original video: ruclips.net/video/rrCdeBncBu0/видео.html Thank you so much for watching! ❤
I would have been interested to hear commentary from you about the differences in sound from then to now. Are you old enough to have heard the pianos of the 40s and 50s live, and not just on recording? If so, what do you think accounts for a difference in sound?
The sound is great, but the mellowness comes from the restricted ability of recording equipment at that time. So the higher frequencies and low frequencies were dampened or cut off. If you would have been in the room, the piano would have sounded with more bass and a lot crisper and clearer than in the recording. In the professional field, intonation of hammers to reach the correct softness and elasticity of the felt was done then and is done today.
I haven't read all the comments but perhaps I am one of the few (if any?) commenters who actually heard Moiseiwitsch in person. An unforgettable program of Bach Chromatic Fantasie & Fugue, Schumann Carnaval, Chopin B Minor Sonata, and Mussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition. It was one of the greatest piano recitals I ever heard. I must concur somewhat with comments that suggested the tone of this recording was largely the result of the limited recording technology of the day. In truth, Moiseiwitsch had a beautiful, rich, and full sound. He was the only pianist I ever heard whose sound was at least equal to Arthur Rubinstein's, perhaps even more beautiful. The final entrance of the main theme in the last movement of the Chopin sonata was the biggest and most beautiful piano sound that I think I ever heard.
New instruments sometimes sound like this. The more you play the piano the more the felt wears off. A lot of pianos are overplayed so the hammers are hitting strings mostly with wood instead of thick felt layer. It is one of the reasons black keys often sound different - there are played less so they have more felt left on them. (edit: I didn't mean that the felt wears off completely. The material is just more compressed. The sentence about black and white keys is more like a food for thought than an actual fact. It's true only for classroom pianos which weren't serviced in ages. But even on concert pianos, it's not that often that the felt is changed on all of the hammers. It's done mostly for a single hammer when a note stands out. The sound in the Moiseiwitsch's recording, as mentioned by @f1f1s, comes from many different reasons. The recording medium, vintage microphone (mono), piano itself, well felted hammers, the strings, piano legs resonating against the floor, space of the concert hall, piano tuning, the usage of una corda pedal... But the most important part is Moiseiwitsch's performance. When you play so softly, there are less harmonics of the strings and the spectrum of the notes start to resemble pure sine tones which gives it the "warm" sound.)
Not really correct. Piano hammers don't lose felt in any great amount, but what can happen over time is the felt gets more compressed, thus leading to a slightly brighter sound. Most of the tone depends on the hammer felt manufacturer. A good piano technician can voice a piano to be brighter, or more mellow. Brightening a piano usual involves adding a liquid that hardens the felt and/or sanding off a very small amount of the less dense outer felt. To soften the tone, hammers are generally needled to loosen up the felt.
Benno Moiseiwitch is one of the sadly underrated pianists, and almost forgotten. I happened to read the comments here. There ARE several young pianists who are capable to achieve a similar elegant, insightful sound like this one. On modern steinways! And guess what, they never win a piano contest or become superstars (same as Moiseiwitch), and are widely dismissed as "not having level", "no energy in their playing", and other remarks alike, because audiences and jury members are so conditioned to "fast and furious" virtuosic playing. So sad. But it happened back in the day, if we can believe testimonials of that time... Franz Liszt vs. Frederick Chopin!
BM left many very good recordings. Old School & Aristocratic Artistry. In addition to “standard repertoire”, I enjoy his recording of Masterpieces like the Liszt-Wagner Tannhauser Overture. Too bad sometimes the old tech recordings are sometimes almost painful to listen to. But worth a careful listening periodically to appreciate the character of Artistry.
You are spot on. I’ve been saying this for years. Todays virtuosity is not meeting the musical depths. Too much surface technique. I studied at Juilliard under Josef Raieff and Ania Dorfmann. They were incredible musicians ! When I comment about the playing in competitions such as the Van Cliburn amongst others, I get blasted. Very few pianists know how to make true art! The golden age is long gone when great names played with individuality and virtuosity was not thrown in your face.I’m sick of these super fast performers of today. Give me the golden age any day
@@lucaslorentz Hey Lorentz. I actually think old sound quality is so much better. Feels like the old elegant and moral times, far from modernity to me.
I think that if one takes the time to search, you will find that some new pianos can still sound like that, and it's also important the performer who can make the piano sound like that: emotional, organic, delicate. And of course, how the sound is recorded too. 😄
As a mixing engineer, here's some easy tips if you want your piano recording to sound vintage like this: Step 1: Record your piano with only mono microphone (Stereo is a myth in the 1920s). Step 2: Cut the high frequency higher than 7,5 Khz, so you will only have little air and it will result in a muffled sound like in this video (Vintage recording hates high frequency except white noise). Step 3: Cut the low frequency lower than 200 hz. Want a vintage sound? Gotta remove those bass frequencies bro. Step 4: Insert white noise sample into your recording, adjust the volume of white noise according to your taste. Step 5: Insert vinyl crackle into your recording, adjust the volume of vinyl crackle according to your taste. Step 6: Profit
This mellow velvety sound is partly due to the limited bandwidth of the recording, but I do remember playing some pianos that sounded almost like his. The hammer had a thick velvet and hit the strings not very close to the anchor (bridge).
I have a Yamaha baby grand, and it is extraordinarily bright. It is very difficult to make a sensitive tone, but I’ve done it. It will probably be easier to make sensitive sounds on less bright instruments.
As Japan was rebuilding with American help after WWII, Steinway kindly provided Yamaha with some pianos to use as design models. A generation later, Yamaha dominated the industry worldwide. I wonder if the owners of Steinway ever had second thoughts about their generosity.
@@johntechwriter I don't know much about the piano industry, but the more piano manufacturers, the merrier! Steinways are still highly sought after, I don't think they have a problem with that.
If you have an old piano built in german tradition, it surely will sound like this one :) 2nd thing is way of playing and position of the hands to keyboard. It is a way easier to achieve this sound with special position of fingers and hand caled today "russian technique" (which of course was not invented by russians but was and still is taught in russian tradition). Flat fingers, minimal movement of hands, posiotion of the hands very close to keyboard. Horowitz is an excellent example. Interestingly Chopin himself played that way, but was not educated and trained in russian manner, but in german. He was also (in Poland) trained on pianos with viennese action being built in Poland in strong german tradition of piano building present in poland at that time. Modern Steinway and whats more - pumped up and sweetened Yamahas and Kawais cant give such variety of tone as old german pianos, or even old, pre-wwii New York Steinways strongly influenced by german tradition of the company. So if you have nonreacting and nonresponsive piano unsensitive to touch, piano which can only sing sweetly and loudly, its obvious that you cant do much with its sound. Thats why 95 percent of modern pianists can play only on modern steinways, kawais, yamahas, faziolis, and dont know how to play on older pianos of other brands. Because they are demanding certain abilities of tone producing. We see it on every chopin competition. Does any pianist picked a Bechstein in last 10 or 20 years? I didnt notice that.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the recording technology used, which had tremendous effect on the captured sound. Older electronics and analog tape could not capture the frequency range and harmonics that can be easily picked up nowadays, even on budget equipment. In general, older recordings (not to mention the playback devices of the time) resulted in a warmer, less defined sound than what we've heard since digital largely took over.
@@Finians_Mancave i advise you to check and listen to recordings made during each edition of chopin competition since 1940s to late 1980s. They sound totally "vintage" and similiar to one another. and its because they used old pianos to make the recordings. Argerich playing before cameras on old Warsaw Steinway voiced in old way - thats something! Technology of recording - of course. But there is strong evidence proving that certain kind of piano and way of playing are main factors effecting quality of sound. Back then in 1920s to 1960s they just didnt have modern, pumped up pianos we have today. Also the tastr was different. So thats obvious that those old recordings just cant sound other way (modern way).
What you like of this sound is the vintage, mono and noisy recording.. I like it too, but it's not the real sound of a piano and it wasn't even at the time of the recording. Old recording lacks of hight frequencies, bass frequencies, dynamics, due to the limitations of the gears used for recording, storing and reproducing. This has nothing to do with the instrument or the pianist.
Amen! Thanks for making this important point so well. Pianists and pianos today are doing just fine. Besides, in those days, many families had pianos in their homes and often had a family member who could play decently-- they knew firsthand what a well-played piano sounded like, even if they rarely had access to a virtuoso performance (e.g. living in a small midwest town).
I have a wonderful iBach piano from the 1921-1930 era which sounds very similar in tonal quality. It was love at first sight for me and I feel grateful for being able to purchase and use it.
Sound was recorded on Tape these days. Tape wears off a lot after some years, I always noticed that when rerecording Master Tapes like Ampex or BASF. They all have a different rate of damping and decay over the years. Even Tape-Echoeing is happening when the magnetic particels bleed to the next winding of the tape. On Miles Davis records you can hear that sometimes.
Well .. it's the truth it's considered bad taste to play like this now says... Which I think is tragic because it's so much more expressive... And there is historical precedent...
wdym bad taste, i never heard of anyone who tries to criticize classical other than make comments like "its too slow" or "too quite"..? actually, there are some people that tries to blend in with classical music for clout and attention, idk why
@@ronnielyn1489 I heard it as a criticism almost my entire life... Almost no one plays like this anymore, which I find tragic... I hear way more criticisms than too fast and too slow about performances....
Sound depends on the manufacturer. Sound board size, scale ( string length, core/ wrap on base strings), voicing and no, not playing wood as someone suggested. If we go by recording sound, response of older mics, room acoustics, ect.
Partly due to the felt, partly due to how your technician treats the felt, partly due to piano construction (Bluthners still have a rather traditional sound imo)
I own and amazing Bluthner and can admit that. It sounds like early 20th century piano, but in fact it was built in 1967/68 (model model was designed in 1920s). Quality and sound are exceptional. And even at that time, in 1960s they were using ivory for key tops.
Yes, I definitely agree. In general, even modern music all sounds the same, from about the 70s. And not nearly as many people enjoy classical music which is so very beautiful.
It’s a terrible shame. I started piano lessons just under three years ago. I lean towards traditional hymns. Apart from a few of Bach’s pieces I do not have an interest in classical music which I do find rather sad, as they are beautifully composed. even the simplified arrangements which I am able to play are wonderful.
Many here are referring to the recording quality or even say that the piano isn't so good because of the mellow sound. But it is about Benno here and his beautiful voicings, warm tone and his natural feeling of understanding Schumann's music. If this is the same Steinway that were used by Dinu Lipatti and Edwin Fischer than this is actually one of the best pianos ever made.
Of course, there is much white noise, something you won’t get in a modern recording. The recording is probably in mono, as I have recorded myself in mono and gotten kind of a sound like this.
Hi, I agree with you. I am reading the comments here and they are all very interesting, but not enough emphasis on the manner of playing, and the understanding of the music, the sensitivity he is displaying and the emotional factor. Not to mention fine, elegant legato playing.
pianos may not have the old and golden quality of sound but brilliant pianists are born once or just twice in a century that will make such an instrument be heard as an angel singing in heaven
It would be interesting to collect some old recordings according to pianos they were played on. I remember my father playing old Bechstein piano, and even though it was out of tune it had a wonderful soft sound modern Bechstein doesn't have. In fact, no modern piano has that sound. I hope there are good enough recordings of old pianos like this. I wish I could hear them.
Hes referring to the beautiful tone Benno gets from the piano not the recording quality..And yes even taking into consideration the compressed sound you can tell Benno's sound is wonderful.
The title "Pianists don't sound like this any more" would be more apt. The incredible sound is because of the exquisite balance between each voice, the subtle rubato, and the masterful use of the pedal which never overwhelms the texture or sacrifices clarity for "harmonic wash". Above all this pianist is a consummate musician first and the pianist in him serves that musicianship. Expression is direct human utterance and not emotional "effects" and there is no ego trying to get the "wow" effect. Modern life and its values are at odds with this, so in general we don't find this kind of pianist today. In general..... Matters concerning the sound of the piano itself are far less important.
Pianist reading this, would you consider trying a little experiment? Could you try and weave a little bit of yarn in between the strings, right next to the pins, and then tell me how the timbre is affected?
@@_s_l_p_ Hmm... good point! Perhaps _not_ so close to the pins then. I can imagine it would mostly make for a more dull sound, but it would be interesting to hear anyways
Not only has this piano probably had its hammer-heads pricked (lifting the felt) but Moiseiwitsch has probably depressed the una corda pedal (the one on the left) which moves the keyboard to the right slightly so as to use that part of the felt on the hammer-head which has not been used very much.
OR, it could be a Bluthner piano, which has a softer tone than Steinway or Bechstein. Of course, the way the music is played is literally in the the hands of the pianist - - - not many pianists of today play with such subtleties!
Moiseiwitsch was a real musician--a giant! Fortunately, he did a fair amount of recording. His tannhauser overture is a real marvel. For style, virtuosity, and charm check out his weber-tausig invitation to the dance.
I think what is desired here is the warm clarity on the low end. So it's not really the recording instruments that have changed, many digital pianos and uprights don't accommodate that tone. The paytel was Chopins favorite and that's a very bright sounding wood. I think checking out some of the upper tier Yamaha and obviously Steinway & Sons. The Spirio is actually fairly affordable (considering the price of like a model D) and has some neat features. But yeah, what rock n roll and that upbeat western style did is often what people are looking for now.
Quite fun how this gentleman leads melodies and counterpoint like if it was a small ensemble and musicians entering with "their line" wanted to magnify their 3.76 seconds Solo by getting in a tiny bit late 😀😉😄😜
Years ago, I was helping someone recover the content of very, very old records to make it available to others for research purposes. She wanted to make three distinct restorations available: (1) stable renditions of what the physical records sound like NOW (cleaned surfaces, but simply preserve what's "left" after 80-100 years); (2) a close approximation of what the RECORDING would have sounded like to a listener at the time recorded on the equipment they might have had; (3) a close approximation of what the original SOURCE would have sounded like to a live listener back then. Believe it or not, these are NOT the same thing (and all three are useful). Many folks confuse or blend all three-- sometimes you really want the "pop, click, flutter, wow" to come through, but in others you want the sense of the live audience. Pick your poison.
So what Im seeing is three possible explanations for the sound 1. Recording Equipment 2. Condition of the Piano itself 3. Technique of the pianist Its probably a combination of all three
I see a lot of comments talking about the sound but referring to the physics and the piano condition. I think that the video doesn’t want to show the condition of the piano, it means that pianos don’t sound the same way because a lot of knowledge is lost and this old pianists had such an elegant way to play. You just have to hear how well this sounds. It is not the quality of the piano at all. It is the intention of the pianist in this case. Or that is how I understand it as a conservatory piano student.
I enjoy mellow piano so much I can’t even play my own piano without putting thin felt in front of the striking surface. I also really enjoy the tone of the yamahas with the quiet/practice function turned on. I don’t like the brightness of a raw piano.
@@peterjrmoore3941 and she tells me is alwais instinct, she tries to compose sometimes and she dont feel confortable doing that, she only make improvisations and play classical music
One reason that "pianos don't sound like this any more" is that the mechanical action of the piano has been pretty constantly evolving since its development from the pianoforte by Christofori in 1698 through the "Viennese" action of tne pianos of Mozart and Beethoven, to the Brooks action, birdcage action, on to the Schwander action and the Herrburger-Brooks action...Differences in these types of action affect the both how the piano sounds and how it plays.
Could say it's Schumann from the first notes. Happy with that. Tone is perfect. Phrasing also . This is also something that we don't really find so often . I see a lot of pianists who jusst don't phrase. Incredibile . But they don't....can't understand how this comes.
Cool Trades- absolutely! I am constantly amazed by classical musicians who have no idea about phrasing. They should all be required to SING their parts, yes with their mouths, before they imagine they can play them.
This difference could also be the combination of differences in the instruments, differences in playing technique then versus now, and older or newer recording equipment.
A prime example of classic playing, and exquisitely beautiful. But l would say that equal artistry and instruments exist today. Granted that instruments evolve, and there has been a distinct move toward louder and brighter instruments over the past couple centuries. But l suspect this classic sound has more to do with the recording technology of the time than it does with any lost soul of the instruments or players.
Nowadays it's all about speed and technical skills, people think speed is everything, when it's just one piece of the cake, the biggest is about Soul...
@@ArgoBeats Noo, I mean, people were like that, they wanted to see technicaly difficult pieces and concertos instead of deep ones. And pianists like Chopin was rare and unique
Yes, because there's an heavy filtering of frequencies due to the old recording medium. Your piano recordings will sound like this using the same mediums and waiting decades
There was a very funny Everybody Loves Raymond episode that involved vinyl versus CD. It seems that one Christmas when Ramond was a boy his father blamed him for putting his jazz record albums too close to the heater in the basement ruining them (his older brother eventually admits to being the culprit). Now an adult, Raymond buys his parents a CD player and CD versions of his father's records. He has to get past his mother thinking the CD player is too complicated requiring a NASA engineer to operate it. And then Raymond has a futile struggle to unwrap a CD and his parents give up and walk away. Later, Raymond finally has everything working and his parents come in the door, and he turns it on - but he had the volume at like 11. He lowers the volume, the parents recover, and his father just doesn't like it. The older brother comes in with replacement records he bought used. The father puts one on the record player with a saxophone playing smooth jazz. You can hear the tinnier frequency response and pops and scratches galore. And the father just loves it.
Absolute nonsense. There’s an entire plethora of talented and virtuoso pianists in today’s world who could make sound like this. Saying that “this generation doesn’t know how to make good music” is categorically untrue
@@purplefishy8164 A lot of vitriol for a three word comment. A virtuoso today could very well make a sound like this, and yet doesn't, because this style of playing has demonstrably been out of fashion for a long time: the consistent (and rather fast) tempo, and the use of desynchronization of the hands as the principal rhythmic effect instead of rubato.
@@bhsieh3537 ....Are you really sure about this? You're saying Trifonov and Company are Better than Arrau, Horowitz, ABM, Hoffman,...I think you're wrong. A bit..
It's all about voicing. If the felt has hardened over time or use, it needs to be revoiced- a technique used by piano techs that softens the felt on the hammers. There is a little "special" tool that has little needle like spokes on it that are used to fluff the felt where it has been hardened by the strings. This recording has terrible quality but you can tell the piano was voiced well
Yes, voicing as you have described it is the main variable. My grandfather was a Steinway dealer in mid state New York, who gave my mother an ebony Model M for her wedding in 1950. The Steinways actually came to her wedding( I have 16mm films grandpa took). My mother insisted that the tone be very soft, and had it adjusted so. I remember seeing the little "forks" the technicians used, for a second adjustment when I was 5 or so. When she passed away, I inherited the piano, and had some technicians come and prep it for sale. They tuned and re-voiced it- OMG, I had never heard it sound so good! I always hated that "soft" sound. I got quite a lot of money for the piano- which is not to say I needed the money, but rather to say I was glad the piano could sound so good, that it wasn't ruined by my mother's preference. Instead, it could be, and was restored to the famous brilliant Steinway timbre.
@@woody8851 I've never played a Steinway I would have called "brilliant". Though any piano can be either, I've always described Steinway as milky or mellow. But every piano has its own "mood" off the factory floor, and can be adjusted either way. Fun little story about your family piano. Terrible you had to sell it, but I'm sure it went to a good home.
-musician: Benno Moiseiwitsch
-piece: Schumann Fantasiestucke op. 12, 'Warum?'
-original video: ruclips.net/video/rrCdeBncBu0/видео.html
Thank you so much for watching! ❤
Vacuum tube, diodes and triode and even pentode electronic recording equipment, always gives a better, bass beautiful audio.
I would have been interested to hear commentary from you about the differences in sound from then to now. Are you old enough to have heard the pianos of the 40s and 50s live, and not just on recording? If so, what do you think accounts for a difference in sound?
The sound is great, but the mellowness comes from the restricted ability of recording equipment at that time. So the higher frequencies and low frequencies were dampened or cut off. If you would have been in the room, the piano would have sounded with more bass and a lot crisper and clearer than in the recording.
In the professional field, intonation of hammers to reach the correct softness and elasticity of the felt was done then and is done today.
Finally. An accurate analysis here!
@@sunilj2608 This really is the only correct answer in this comment section 🤣
Ye
I don't think so, because some old pianos from the 30's and 40's really sound like this when you play it.
from own personal experience.
I haven't read all the comments but perhaps I am one of the few (if any?) commenters who actually heard Moiseiwitsch in person. An unforgettable program of Bach Chromatic Fantasie & Fugue, Schumann Carnaval, Chopin B Minor Sonata, and Mussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition. It was one of the greatest piano recitals I ever heard. I must concur somewhat with comments that suggested the tone of this recording was largely the result of the limited recording technology of the day. In truth, Moiseiwitsch had a beautiful, rich, and full sound. He was the only pianist I ever heard whose sound was at least equal to Arthur Rubinstein's, perhaps even more beautiful. The final entrance of the main theme in the last movement of the Chopin sonata was the biggest and most beautiful piano sound that I think I ever heard.
thank you so much for this comment! you're so lucky to have heard him live :)
What lovely memories! Thank you for sharing such a beautiful musical experience.
wow! this is a service to all of us to share your life's good fortune to see Moiseiwitsch. Thank you!
ps: ever see Hendrix?
Did he use sheet music?
@@Cj-yw8cs No. I don't think it was ever his custom to use music when he performed.
New instruments sometimes sound like this. The more you play the piano the more the felt wears off. A lot of pianos are overplayed so the hammers are hitting strings mostly with wood instead of thick felt layer. It is one of the reasons black keys often sound different - there are played less so they have more felt left on them.
(edit: I didn't mean that the felt wears off completely. The material is just more compressed. The sentence about black and white keys is more like a food for thought than an actual fact. It's true only for classroom pianos which weren't serviced in ages. But even on concert pianos, it's not that often that the felt is changed on all of the hammers. It's done mostly for a single hammer when a note stands out.
The sound in the Moiseiwitsch's recording, as mentioned by @f1f1s, comes from many different reasons. The recording medium, vintage microphone (mono), piano itself, well felted hammers, the strings, piano legs resonating against the floor, space of the concert hall, piano tuning, the usage of una corda pedal...
But the most important part is Moiseiwitsch's performance. When you play so softly, there are less harmonics of the strings and the spectrum of the notes start to resemble pure sine tones which gives it the "warm" sound.)
do you know any other recordings made on such pianos?
Not really correct. Piano hammers don't lose felt in any great amount, but what can happen over time is the felt gets more compressed, thus leading to a slightly brighter sound. Most of the tone depends on the hammer felt manufacturer. A good piano technician can voice a piano to be brighter, or more mellow. Brightening a piano usual involves adding a liquid that hardens the felt and/or sanding off a very small amount of the less dense outer felt. To soften the tone, hammers are generally needled to loosen up the felt.
Horowitz liked his felts fluffed before a performance.
@@kennethbrush7300 His pillows too probably.
"black keys often sound different - there are played less"
hahaha, what? 😂how'd you work that out?
That's the sound I'd love to make as a pianist.
Find an 80 year old microphone to record yourself with.
with a full noises?
Here’s a potato for you
Benno Moiseiwitch is one of the sadly underrated pianists, and almost forgotten. I happened to read the comments here. There ARE several young pianists who are capable to achieve a similar elegant, insightful sound like this one. On modern steinways! And guess what, they never win a piano contest or become superstars (same as Moiseiwitch), and are widely dismissed as "not having level", "no energy in their playing", and other remarks alike, because audiences and jury members are so conditioned to "fast and furious" virtuosic playing. So sad. But it happened back in the day, if we can believe testimonials of that time... Franz Liszt vs. Frederick Chopin!
BM left many very good recordings. Old School & Aristocratic Artistry. In addition to “standard repertoire”, I enjoy his recording of Masterpieces like the Liszt-Wagner Tannhauser Overture. Too bad sometimes the old tech recordings are sometimes almost painful to listen to. But worth a careful listening periodically to appreciate the character of Artistry.
Any examples?
BM underrated? Hmmm, I think he is widely recognized as one of the all-time greatest pianists beside his contemporaries Rachmaninoff and Hofmann.
He was a giant
You are spot on. I’ve been saying this for years. Todays virtuosity is not meeting the musical depths. Too much surface technique. I studied at Juilliard under Josef Raieff and Ania Dorfmann. They were incredible musicians ! When I comment about the playing in competitions such as the Van Cliburn amongst others, I get blasted. Very few pianists know how to make true art! The golden age is long gone when great names played with individuality and virtuosity was not thrown in your face.I’m sick of these super fast performers of today. Give me the golden age any day
ever since they stopped recording with potatoes
yea lmao I really don't get the fascination with bad sound quality
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz You cannot hear the quality of the interpretation?
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz i mean it has sort of a vibe but still modern recordings are way better imo
@@karpabla the caption seems to be about the audio
@@lucaslorentz Hey Lorentz. I actually think old sound quality is so much better. Feels like the old elegant and moral times, far from modernity to me.
I think that if one takes the time to search, you will find that some new pianos can still sound like that, and it's also important the performer who can make the piano sound like that: emotional, organic, delicate. And of course, how the sound is recorded too. 😄
i found you! 🥺🫡
Hey nobody!
Heyyyyyy I listen to your Playlists!
Love your playlists!
As a mixing engineer, here's some easy tips if you want your piano recording to sound vintage like this:
Step 1: Record your piano with only mono microphone (Stereo is a myth in the 1920s).
Step 2: Cut the high frequency higher than 7,5 Khz, so you will only have little air and it will result in a muffled sound like in this video (Vintage recording hates high frequency except white noise).
Step 3: Cut the low frequency lower than 200 hz. Want a vintage sound? Gotta remove those bass frequencies bro.
Step 4: Insert white noise sample into your recording, adjust the volume of white noise according to your taste.
Step 5: Insert vinyl crackle into your recording, adjust the volume of vinyl crackle according to your taste.
Step 6: Profit
I don't understand why this comment doesn't get enough attention
@@60d93 same
@@60d93 because why would you like your piano ti sound like this??
This comment deserves at least 1K likes, too bad the account doesn't have enough views for that.
🤣
Folks just FELT more back these days.
So calming and relaxing
hi the person who's everywhere
My piano tuner always talks about this, old early 20th century pianos were on a league of their own
let's get closer to these musicians ito this way of making poetry! this is what we need 🙏
I think it has much to do with the recording technology of the day along with the pianist's sensibilities and imagination.
Exactly.
Honestly I love bosendorfer pianos because they have a mellow tone, really pretty
Hear hear!
@@sarahsteinhardt1697 My C Bechstein built in Berlin 1908 model 7 speaks to me , no I mean we sing together, we were made for each other.
This mellow velvety sound is partly due to the limited bandwidth of the recording, but I do remember playing some pianos that sounded almost like his. The hammer had a thick velvet and hit the strings not very close to the anchor (bridge).
Oh, gosh this rubato is fascinating....
Beautiful, gentle, mellow sound!🎹
Pianos had lighter hammers back then, resulting in a richer, clearer, more gentle sound.
Nowadays we use heavy hammers in favor of loudness.
The Yamaha and Kawai pianos seem to have introduced a "brighter ", sharper tone.....encouraging virtuosity and spectacular feats of speed.
That's my preferred sound, but I'm a jazz musician, not a classical one
Mainly Yamaha.
I have a Yamaha baby grand, and it is extraordinarily bright. It is very difficult to make a sensitive tone, but I’ve done it. It will probably be easier to make sensitive sounds on less bright instruments.
As Japan was rebuilding with American help after WWII, Steinway kindly provided Yamaha with some pianos to use as design models. A generation later, Yamaha dominated the industry worldwide. I wonder if the owners of Steinway ever had second thoughts about their generosity.
@@johntechwriter I don't know much about the piano industry, but the more piano manufacturers, the merrier! Steinways are still highly sought after, I don't think they have a problem with that.
If you have an old piano built in german tradition, it surely will sound like this one :) 2nd thing is way of playing and position of the hands to keyboard. It is a way easier to achieve this sound with special position of fingers and hand caled today "russian technique" (which of course was not invented by russians but was and still is taught in russian tradition). Flat fingers, minimal movement of hands, posiotion of the hands very close to keyboard. Horowitz is an excellent example. Interestingly Chopin himself played that way, but was not educated and trained in russian manner, but in german. He was also (in Poland) trained on pianos with viennese action being built in Poland in strong german tradition of piano building present in poland at that time. Modern Steinway and whats more - pumped up and sweetened Yamahas and Kawais cant give such variety of tone as old german pianos, or even old, pre-wwii New York Steinways strongly influenced by german tradition of the company. So if you have nonreacting and nonresponsive piano unsensitive to touch, piano which can only sing sweetly and loudly, its obvious that you cant do much with its sound. Thats why 95 percent of modern pianists can play only on modern steinways, kawais, yamahas, faziolis, and dont know how to play on older pianos of other brands. Because they are demanding certain abilities of tone producing. We see it on every chopin competition. Does any pianist picked a Bechstein in last 10 or 20 years? I didnt notice that.
Try a Fazioli.
Also modern pitch is sharp.
A440??? And technicians tuned by ear not a digital tuner.
More or less by default, Steinway have been allowed to become the Standard in modern pianism.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the recording technology used, which had tremendous effect on the captured sound. Older electronics and analog tape could not capture the frequency range and harmonics that can be easily picked up nowadays, even on budget equipment. In general, older recordings (not to mention the playback devices of the time) resulted in a warmer, less defined sound than what we've heard since digital largely took over.
@@Finians_Mancave i advise you to check and listen to recordings made during each edition of chopin competition since 1940s to late 1980s. They sound totally "vintage" and similiar to one another. and its because they used old pianos to make the recordings. Argerich playing before cameras on old Warsaw Steinway voiced in old way - thats something! Technology of recording - of course. But there is strong evidence proving that certain kind of piano and way of playing are main factors effecting quality of sound. Back then in 1920s to 1960s they just didnt have modern, pumped up pianos we have today. Also the tastr was different. So thats obvious that those old recordings just cant sound other way (modern way).
The original lo-fi recording before it became cool. But seriously this sound is beautiful. Always had a soft spot for older recording techniques.
the finest rendition ever of this piece I used to play....bravo!
This is true old pianos sounded magic
What you like of this sound is the vintage, mono and noisy recording..
I like it too, but it's not the real sound of a piano and it wasn't even at the time of the recording.
Old recording lacks of hight frequencies, bass frequencies, dynamics, due to the limitations of the gears used for recording, storing and reproducing. This has nothing to do with the instrument or the pianist.
Amen! Thanks for making this important point so well. Pianists and pianos today are doing just fine. Besides, in those days, many families had pianos in their homes and often had a family member who could play decently-- they knew firsthand what a well-played piano sounded like, even if they rarely had access to a virtuoso performance (e.g. living in a small midwest town).
Wonderful voicing! I love this
Never heard of this pianist before.
Many thanks gonna check out his recordings!
I have a wonderful iBach piano from the 1921-1930 era which sounds very similar in tonal quality. It was love at first sight for me and I feel grateful for being able to purchase and use it.
Sound was recorded on Tape these days. Tape wears off a lot after some years, I always noticed that when rerecording Master Tapes like Ampex or BASF. They all have a different rate of damping and decay over the years. Even Tape-Echoeing is happening when the magnetic particels bleed to the next winding of the tape. On Miles Davis records you can hear that sometimes.
Well .. it's the truth it's considered bad taste to play like this now says... Which I think is tragic because it's so much more expressive... And there is historical precedent...
I'm curious what do you think are the differences?
@@Ryuuuuuk the out of timeness between the hands and voices and a large amount of rubato...
wdym bad taste, i never heard of anyone who tries to criticize classical other than make comments like "its too slow" or "too quite"..? actually, there are some people that tries to blend in with classical music for clout and attention, idk why
You can still get a piano to sound like strings by listening to it from the other room
@@ronnielyn1489 I heard it as a criticism almost my entire life... Almost no one plays like this anymore, which I find tragic...
I hear way more criticisms than too fast and too slow about performances....
Dude's a virtuoso, indeed!
Sound depends on the manufacturer. Sound board size, scale ( string length, core/ wrap on base strings), voicing and no, not playing wood as someone suggested. If we go by recording sound, response of older mics, room acoustics, ect.
Partly due to the felt, partly due to how your technician treats the felt, partly due to piano construction (Bluthners still have a rather traditional sound imo)
I own and amazing Bluthner and can admit that. It sounds like early 20th century piano, but in fact it was built in 1967/68 (model model was designed in 1920s). Quality and sound are exceptional. And even at that time, in 1960s they were using ivory for key tops.
Maybe we should say: " pianists don't play like this anymore "
Yes, I definitely agree. In general, even modern music all sounds the same, from about the 70s. And not nearly as many people enjoy classical music which is so very beautiful.
It’s a terrible shame. I started piano lessons just under three years ago. I lean towards traditional hymns. Apart from a few of Bach’s pieces I do not have an interest in classical music which I do find rather sad, as they are beautifully composed. even the simplified arrangements which I am able to play are wonderful.
That was a lovely piece. Thanks
Many here are referring to the recording quality or even say that the piano isn't so good because of the mellow sound. But it is about Benno here and his beautiful voicings, warm tone and his natural feeling of understanding Schumann's music. If this is the same Steinway that were used by Dinu Lipatti and Edwin Fischer than this is actually one of the best pianos ever made.
Of course, there is much white noise, something you won’t get in a modern recording. The recording is probably in mono, as I have recorded myself in mono and gotten kind of a sound like this.
Hi, I agree with you. I am reading the comments here and they are all very interesting, but not enough emphasis on the manner of playing, and the understanding of the music, the sensitivity he is displaying and the emotional factor. Not to mention fine, elegant legato playing.
@@flintlong2937 would you take time to listen to my Kreisleriana?
It was sharper in real life. The mono audio recording softened it all up. I once had my piano recorded like this to mimic an old soundtrack.
More like "recording equipment doesn't sound like this anymore." Beautiful song
pianos may not have the old and golden quality of sound but brilliant pianists are born once or just twice in a century that will make such an instrument be heard as an angel singing in heaven
This is the theme to one of my favorite movies "All that heaven allows".
It would be interesting to collect some old recordings according to pianos they were played on.
I remember my father playing old Bechstein piano, and even though it was out of tune it had a wonderful soft sound modern Bechstein doesn't have. In fact, no modern piano has that sound.
I hope there are good enough recordings of old pianos like this. I wish I could hear them.
Hes referring to the beautiful tone Benno gets from the piano not the recording quality..And yes even taking into consideration the compressed sound you can tell Benno's sound is wonderful.
🙌🏼
The title "Pianists don't sound like this any more" would be more apt. The incredible sound is because of the exquisite balance between each voice, the subtle rubato, and the masterful use of the pedal which never overwhelms the texture or sacrifices clarity for "harmonic wash". Above all this pianist is a consummate musician first and the pianist in him serves that musicianship. Expression is direct human utterance and not emotional "effects" and there is no ego trying to get the "wow" effect. Modern life and its values are at odds with this, so in general we don't find this kind of pianist today. In general..... Matters concerning the sound of the piano itself are far less important.
I can taste the moss and dust from the sound alone. ✌️
Thank goodness.
Pianist reading this, would you consider trying a little experiment? Could you try and weave a little bit of yarn in between the strings, right next to the pins, and then tell me how the timbre is affected?
@@_s_l_p_ Hmm... good point! Perhaps _not_ so close to the pins then. I can imagine it would mostly make for a more dull sound, but it would be interesting to hear anyways
Not only has this piano probably had its hammer-heads pricked (lifting the felt) but Moiseiwitsch has probably depressed the una corda pedal (the one on the left) which moves the keyboard to the right slightly so as to use that part of the felt on the hammer-head which has not been used very much.
OR, it could be a Bluthner piano, which has a softer tone than Steinway or Bechstein. Of course, the way the music is played is literally in the the hands of the pianist - - - not many pianists of today play with such subtleties!
Moiseiwitsch was a real musician--a giant! Fortunately, he did a fair amount of recording. His tannhauser overture is a real marvel. For style, virtuosity, and charm check out his weber-tausig invitation to the dance.
I think what is desired here is the warm clarity on the low end. So it's not really the recording instruments that have changed, many digital pianos and uprights don't accommodate that tone. The paytel was Chopins favorite and that's a very bright sounding wood. I think checking out some of the upper tier Yamaha and obviously Steinway & Sons. The Spirio is actually fairly affordable (considering the price of like a model D) and has some neat features. But yeah, what rock n roll and that upbeat western style did is often what people are looking for now.
Quite fun how this gentleman leads melodies and counterpoint like if it was a small ensemble and musicians entering with "their line" wanted to magnify their 3.76 seconds Solo by getting in a tiny bit late 😀😉😄😜
Years ago, I was helping someone recover the content of very, very old records to make it available to others for research purposes. She wanted to make three distinct restorations available: (1) stable renditions of what the physical records sound like NOW (cleaned surfaces, but simply preserve what's "left" after 80-100 years); (2) a close approximation of what the RECORDING would have sounded like to a listener at the time recorded on the equipment they might have had; (3) a close approximation of what the original SOURCE would have sounded like to a live listener back then. Believe it or not, these are NOT the same thing (and all three are useful). Many folks confuse or blend all three-- sometimes you really want the "pop, click, flutter, wow" to come through, but in others you want the sense of the live audience. Pick your poison.
So what Im seeing is three possible explanations for the sound
1. Recording Equipment
2. Condition of the Piano itself
3. Technique of the pianist
Its probably a combination of all three
I see a lot of comments talking about the sound but referring to the physics and the piano condition. I think that the video doesn’t want to show the condition of the piano, it means that pianos don’t sound the same way because a lot of knowledge is lost and this old pianists had such an elegant way to play. You just have to hear how well this sounds. It is not the quality of the piano at all. It is the intention of the pianist in this case. Or that is how I understand it as a conservatory piano student.
Totally agree
I enjoy mellow piano so much I can’t even play my own piano without putting thin felt in front of the striking surface. I also really enjoy the tone of the yamahas with the quiet/practice function turned on. I don’t like the brightness of a raw piano.
My teacher the cuban Eunice Lluis (76) haves this sound. She have videos of his improvitations here in youtube
¿Puedes pasar el link para escuchar?
I just listened to one of her improvisations - nice to hear someone improvise with rich harmony
@@rubenrayo9485 ruclips.net/video/Rq9Owh2uj5g/видео.html
@@peterjrmoore3941 and she tells me is alwais instinct, she tries to compose sometimes and she dont feel confortable doing that, she only make improvisations and play classical music
Very beautiful!!!
Neither do composers
Interesting that the title of the piece goes with the title of your video ; )
Hahahaha, exactly what I thought
That was what I thought too.
Very well played.
Steinway or Bosendorfer? Which do you prefer? All Piano forte's have sounded similar since invention i would think.
One reason that "pianos don't sound like this any more" is that the mechanical action of the piano has been pretty constantly evolving since its development from the pianoforte by Christofori in 1698 through the "Viennese" action of tne pianos of Mozart and Beethoven, to the Brooks action, birdcage action, on to the Schwander action and the Herrburger-Brooks action...Differences in these types of action affect the both how the piano sounds and how it plays.
Could say it's Schumann from the first notes. Happy with that. Tone is perfect. Phrasing also . This is also something that we don't really find so often . I see a lot of pianists who jusst don't phrase. Incredibile . But they don't....can't understand how this comes.
Cool Trades- absolutely! I am constantly amazed by classical musicians who have no idea about phrasing. They should all be required to SING their parts, yes with their mouths, before they imagine they can play them.
This difference could also be the combination of differences in the instruments, differences in playing technique then versus now, and older or newer recording equipment.
People love Bang Bang, Bang Bang!
"Warum?"
"Yes, Rico, Warum"
It's more that microphones don't work like this anymore. They got better.
Considering that microphones and recording technology itself was shit back then I would hope not.
It was the best for what they had, but the talent behind this piece is the is superb!
Oh, I love this
A prime example of classic playing, and exquisitely beautiful. But l would say that equal artistry and instruments exist today. Granted that instruments evolve, and there has been a distinct move toward louder and brighter instruments over the past couple centuries. But l suspect this classic sound has more to do with the recording technology of the time than it does with any lost soul of the instruments or players.
I would suggest a more accurate title: pianists dont play like this anymore
If it was recorded with modern equipment it would sound like a modern piano.
I own a 1909 Gaveau modele 2 parlor grand. A sound like no other. No modern piano can match the harmonics and lyrical tone.
Nowadays it's all about speed and technical skills, people think speed is everything, when it's just one piece of the cake, the biggest is about Soul...
well, in first half of XIX century it was also like this
@@gigogrom216 ? So in your opinion Chopin is all about speed and "no soul"?
@@ArgoBeats Noo, I mean, people were like that, they wanted to see technicaly difficult pieces and concertos instead of deep ones. And pianists like Chopin was rare and unique
Well, I can hear it right now.
Vacuum tube vs. Transistor
I feel like I am on the Titanic maiden voyage,,, before it hits any iceberg,, beautiful 👍💯😊
Sounds like his playing underwater....
benno "midas" moiseiwitch pog
Yes, because there's an heavy filtering of frequencies due to the old recording medium. Your piano recordings will sound like this using the same mediums and waiting decades
They sound better today. Refinement over the years.
There was a very funny Everybody Loves Raymond episode that involved vinyl versus CD. It seems that one Christmas when Ramond was a boy his father blamed him for putting his jazz record albums too close to the heater in the basement ruining them (his older brother eventually admits to being the culprit). Now an adult, Raymond buys his parents a CD player and CD versions of his father's records. He has to get past his mother thinking the CD player is too complicated requiring a NASA engineer to operate it. And then Raymond has a futile struggle to unwrap a CD and his parents give up and walk away. Later, Raymond finally has everything working and his parents come in the door, and he turns it on - but he had the volume at like 11. He lowers the volume, the parents recover, and his father just doesn't like it. The older brother comes in with replacement records he bought used. The father puts one on the record player with a saxophone playing smooth jazz. You can hear the tinnier frequency response and pops and scratches galore. And the father just loves it.
He is talking about the way the piano is played rather than the manic pluckings of Yuja Wang and her ilk. Sound engineers, this doesn't concern you.
Moiseiwitsch looks like Alfred
Analog is the real deal
It's the recording mainly.
sound so v sweet
Well to be fair it’s mostly the recording quality, old pianos were not made that much differently back then.
I've got a 1910 Bechstein A, I installed new hammers, shanks, flanges, and dampers in it. It sounds like this. It's for sale.
The piano has some notes fudged in the tuning. I believe it's some sort of well tempered tuning, maybe 19th century.
Neither do pianists..
Absolute nonsense. There’s an entire plethora of talented and virtuoso pianists in today’s world who could make sound like this. Saying that “this generation doesn’t know how to make good music” is categorically untrue
Pianists today are better than those in the past. Just like any field or sport lmao
@@bhsieh3537 now maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say that (think about Horowitz and Rubinstein) but to say we've gotten worse is quite outrageous
@@purplefishy8164 A lot of vitriol for a three word comment. A virtuoso today could very well make a sound like this, and yet doesn't, because this style of playing has demonstrably been out of fashion for a long time: the consistent (and rather fast) tempo, and the use of desynchronization of the hands as the principal rhythmic effect instead of rubato.
@@bhsieh3537 ....Are you really sure about this? You're saying Trifonov and Company are Better than Arrau, Horowitz, ABM, Hoffman,...I think you're wrong. A bit..
Entirely true. But people also no longer have ears to appreciate it. Take heart, there is still BLÜTHNER.
After years of training on my (upright) piano, I am starting to get a sound I like, inspired by Alfred Cortot.
Its because technicians think all the hammers should be tempered on the hard side.
I honestly thought this was Victor Borge (if you haven't seen him, watch him) and felt let down at the end that nothing happened!
Just replicate the freq response curve and a bit reducer will do this
It's all about voicing. If the felt has hardened over time or use, it needs to be revoiced- a technique used by piano techs that softens the felt on the hammers. There is a little "special" tool that has little needle like spokes on it that are used to fluff the felt where it has been hardened by the strings. This recording has terrible quality but you can tell the piano was voiced well
Yes, voicing as you have described it is the main variable. My grandfather was a Steinway dealer in mid state New York, who gave my mother an ebony Model M for her wedding in 1950. The Steinways actually came to her wedding( I have 16mm films grandpa took). My mother insisted that the tone be very soft, and had it adjusted so. I remember seeing the little "forks" the technicians used, for a second adjustment when I was 5 or so.
When she passed away, I inherited the piano, and had some technicians come and prep it for sale. They tuned and re-voiced it- OMG, I had never heard it sound so good! I always hated that "soft" sound. I got quite a lot of money for the piano- which is not to say I needed the money, but rather to say I was glad the piano could sound so good, that it wasn't ruined by my mother's preference. Instead, it could be, and was restored to the famous brilliant Steinway timbre.
@@woody8851 I've never played a Steinway I would have called "brilliant". Though any piano can be either, I've always described Steinway as milky or mellow. But every piano has its own "mood" off the factory floor, and can be adjusted either way. Fun little story about your family piano. Terrible you had to sell it, but I'm sure it went to a good home.
The piece is beautiful tho
You're right, they aren't in mono any longer. Other than that it sounds like a modern piano but it isn't tuned too well.
Like they're being played underwater? Darn, what a shame.
This is sounding a bit like Chopin to me, very elegant.