They weren’t cheating. They were just using a very questionable yet not illegal braking system. Once that advantage was removed… we ALL SEE THE RESULTS, yet lots and lots of people are doing mental gymnastics to explain the downfall of redbull. 😂
If it was the braking RB wouldn't of dropped so significantly once they had to go back to stock brakes like everyone else. However the entire package might have been made around the asemetrical braking so once removed the cars characteristics are screwed now.
The speculation also is that because they don't have Adrian Newey in the factory or the office anymore the engineers ran around like headless chickens. It's not just the aero team, either, but the teams as a whole--Adrian Newey builds cars very holistically and his genius is making sure that everything works with the optimal aero setup. And the team breaking apart at the seams doesn't help and it takes a while for them to get back up on their feet. Meanwhile, both Mercedes and McLaren had that time after how abysmal their 2022 campaigns were and incrementally worked things out for a couple of seasons. I really don't believe it unless there is compelling evidence that Red Bull is actually cheating. Otherwise, the drop in performance is really just them not understanding their car properly. Now of course there is a speculation that the Mercedes and McLaren were fast because of flexi wings--and the accusation that somehow the FIA are "allowing" it now while they "didn't" in the past two seasons. Mind you, all of the front wings have passed the load tests per regulation ever since the beginning of the ground effect era, and this is why Red Bull and Ferrari are peeved at why the FIA didn't ban McLaren's and Mercedes' (as theirs did pass the load test but the FIA said no anyway in the past seasons). The FIA instead now put monitoring cameras to observe the flexure of the front wings on all cars to see if the front wings violated the spirit of the rules. The only way to do that is to somehow exploit the tolerance given in letting the front wings flex (because you cannot make something infinitely stiff without it being infinitely strong--too stiff and the loads will just snap the parts clean off). We won't really know what the FIA decides until maybe near the end of at the end of the season. They are probably hiring experts to examine all the design documents that the teams are required to submit to the FIA and the data from the Front Wing Flexing Monitoring Cam 9001* (*not the official name) and see what they can make of it. But to me, there is no denying that if they are able to make a flexi wing that decreases drag at high speeds and flexes back while slowing down to recover downforce while staying in the rules to be absolute genius. Many also speculate that the FIA would allow flexi wings for 2025 if they stay as a passive aerodynamic device (and active aero is going to be a thing for 2026 onwards anyway).
Yea mate…. It was the braking system. The FIA has figured out a way to approach the whole ordeal without being called “cheating” Now they are bringing in updates that were dependent on that braking system working , but since it’s gone. Those upgrades aren’t working.
The asymmetric braking 'cheating' thing was already debunked many weeks ago by mechanic Calum Nicholas, stating basically "this is complete rubbish, source: me putting the car together every race". It could well as just be Aston Martin, who also hugely fell off a cliff in recent times. The problem is this car is way faster than last years RB car, but McLaren is just faster. The internal problems and people leaving and not being able to optimise this design might just be THE reason.
💯 , redbull employee claims they weren’t using asymmetric braking system so it must be true meanwhile they suffered performance loss when the exact system was ruled illegal by the fia 😂😂😂 the jokes just write themselves
If they were cheating, I'm pretty sure every member was going to be told to not say ANYTHING about it. Him coming out and saying that seems like it's his genuine reaction. When Ferrari were cheating in 2019, the entire paddock knew within a matter of minutes and it all got leaked anyways (as it always does in F1). Since there's still no solid leaks or anything, it's just media speculation and you guys are EATING it up it's so fucking hilarious to see
@@_-TC him coming out and saying it doesn't mean anything at all , rbr was CHEATING if they weren't, that asymmetric brake ban wouldn't have done anything to their performance but it did, the fact that you can't analise it on your own, and keep waiting for news is the funny part
@@lmfao3908 for real. Lol we’re still waiting for Ferrari to admit to cheating in 2019? 🤣 RB will not admit to cheating. They’re still using the catering excuse to cover up for them back in 2021 for the over budget cap spending. The FIA will allow these excuses because it helps avoid the “cheating” tag that comes with it.
Honestly I thinks what's actually happened from what we, the audience, can tell is that the other teams have just caught up to Red Bull finally. Mclaren has used it's 4th place wind tunnel time excellently and has the luxury of being able to test parts longer than teams like Red Bull, Mercedes or Ferrari, meaning they've mostly avoided the downgrade problem that the other Top 4 teams have run into this year. I don't think the Championship is lost for Verstappen though, or even that he's at that much of a disadvantage in the championship fight. All Verstappen has to do is survive Baku and Singapore and he genuinely has a straight shot for the WDC, especially if the Mclaren's either keep fighting one another, their pitwall lets them down for the millionth time or Merc and Ferrari pull out more miracle wins which take points away from Norris. The WCC is a different story. That shit's so cooked for Red Bull that its not out of the realm of possibility that Ferrari finish above them.
@@At.mos.fEarProduktionz Ofc it was, are people that stupid? F1 is a business, period. Imagine F1 announcing now that Red Bull, at least in 2023 (I would add 2022, but lets skip that), was using an illegal device and won 22 out of 23 2023 races ilegally. This after the 2021 Abu Dhabi shit show. The reputation of F1 would be in the fucking mud. Its quite clear they found something. Max was cruising until Miami and suddenly a bunch of problems come up and their pace starts dropping lol. Max complaining about the balance more than ever, since then because the others found ways to develop without this device and its helping them now. Helmut Marko said they will run the bahrain spec car in baku, they are clueless about development. For comparison, Ferrari introduced problems in Spain with their upgrade and their new package, just 2 months later seems to have fixed them already (introduced in monza, instantly won), because they know what they are doing. Red bull knew what they were doing for 2 full years and "suddenly" are lost? Yeah, sure.
@19megamustaine85 I think next year will be a bit more competitive among the top teams. If they continue to allow the flexible wings that Merc and McClaren are using, then RB will have it too, and so will Ferrari.
I doubt it’s because of a suspicious braking system. IIrc RB had a “upgrade” at Miami as well, and their highspeed cornering has gone down as well. I think it’s mostly correlation issues and ofc Newey leaving. Who wasn’t only involved with car development, also setup.
I said in the offseason when it came out that RB20 will be a revolution not evolution that RB20 will be much worse than RB19 was and than when Newey left the team I knew it is done for Redbull
maybe it was a way of newey to go crazy and try out new things also in mind no one will understand them, so he won't have to fight against his own monster haha
@@Marco-xz7rfnaw man. RedBull looked unbeatable in the beginning of the season. Once the braking advantage was exposed, RedBull dropped off a cliff. IRS got very little to do with Newey at the moment. He can’t fix this car or how it’s performance. Remember he actually said he was very displeased with certain aspects of the car which is part of the reason why he’s leaving. Newey isn’t part of this problem. It’s the braking system my guy.
@@At.mos.fEarProduktionz Yeah I don't know whom I can believe in that and probably we will never find out. I mean Ferrari blatantly had cheated with their engine and nothing was ever officially released :( But yeah, I also was wondering how Red Bull still was that strong at the beginning. But also Max already was often saying, that he was confused he got Pole, so already then the car didn't feel well anymore but they still won races.
But the pace didnt fall off a cliff, RedBull was still quite quick even if the allegations thrown are true which I dont think is real because then it would really have shown in China itself.
The overspend was less than 5% of the budget cap bro, and most of it came out of administrative mistakes and gardening leaves, as well as the infamous catering. Sure, they cheated and deserved their penalties, but come on, no team does what Red Bull did in 2022 and 2023 because of overspending less than 5%
Again a whole lot of nothing really because we are still in season and nobody knows the reason. And also nobody knows how Mclaren even managed to jump 3 teams in pace.
1. Why not just look at the telemetry. Go get it, make a video and show me where this magic brake trick was used. pick one corner. Show me. 2. If it was a brake trick, why would they be searching for the development steps that changed the car? This behaviour argues strongly against the brake trick argument, and evidences it was poor wind tunnel correlation that caused downgrades. Even James Alison said this. He called the Imola red bull upgrade a downgrade. 3. The FIA has said no teams were using it. 4. How would it even work? Explain it. No one can. The pressure inside brake circuit is far greater than any interia valve would be able to compensate for. So how does it work? Show me. 5. If it was a brake trick and it was removed, red bull would lose the same pace to every car on the grid. But they havnt. Only to Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren, indicating these teams have simply out developed red bull. 6. The whole story came from a single source who was a Spanish Journalist, there are no other sources of the rumour. But you have your fun. All you will do it trash your channel.
1. The FIA are not and have never been transparent. The RB20 is now a LEGAL machine . People need to stop beating around the bush and add up the recent news and clarification of the rules and use their brain. Red Bull within a few races are now slower than McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari (despite destroying them earlier in the season) which is unheard of within a season. Lmao They were clearly doing something. In my opinion they are as guilty as a pregnant nun.
I agree I remember when they told everyone Ferrari wasn't cheating in 19 or McLaren wasn't cheating in 07 oh wait lol they did tell everyone or did everyone forget that and the entire padock was on fire and being angry at Ferrari but I know abunch of people can't accept that RB made a bad car because they lost Marshal and disregarded Newey
When redbull cheats everyone pretends not to see it but if it’s another team everyone has confidence in saying it 😂😂😂 they are the ones suffering mid season, they were obviously cheating wtf is wrong woth people, are you afraid of saying it as it is
It’s because Max is a once in a lifetime driver… the greatest driver the world has ever seen(with asymmetrical brake system 😉) He can win in a Haas… that’s according to the crooked eyed gargoyle Helmut 😂😂😂
@@At.mos.fEarProduktionz lmao Helmut Marko was yammering on about how Max can win in a Haas 🤣🤣🤣, lots of people viewing him as the second coming of Christ in an f1 car smh , saying he spends so much time on the sim that's why he's good , I told the glazers , it doesn't matter how many sim rigs you have or whether you spend 55 hours a day on the sim , come race day , if your car isn't fast enough, you won't win , it doesn't matter who you are
Just found your channel, can’t stop watching! Great vids, keep them coming! 😄
Thanks for watching! I love you all. Remember I don't know anything and this is all just my opinion
Rb20 is so shit that Jonny returned
Welcome back! It's so weird to see McLaren going forward while apparently trying to throw the championship at the same time
The RB20 is Red Bull's Edsel. A car that is riddled with problems that is jeopardising the team.
So glad you’re back man
With this video the Problematic Cars series consists of Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and now Red Bull a minor thing but still interesting to me.
They weren’t cheating. They were just using a very questionable yet not illegal braking system. Once that advantage was removed… we ALL SEE THE RESULTS, yet lots and lots of people are doing mental gymnastics to explain the downfall of redbull. 😂
FIA has insisted that no team used asymmetric braking...
If JonnyF1 does the video on the car it makes it facts
If it was the braking RB wouldn't of dropped so significantly once they had to go back to stock brakes like everyone else. However the entire package might have been made around the asemetrical braking so once removed the cars characteristics are screwed now.
The speculation also is that because they don't have Adrian Newey in the factory or the office anymore the engineers ran around like headless chickens. It's not just the aero team, either, but the teams as a whole--Adrian Newey builds cars very holistically and his genius is making sure that everything works with the optimal aero setup. And the team breaking apart at the seams doesn't help and it takes a while for them to get back up on their feet. Meanwhile, both Mercedes and McLaren had that time after how abysmal their 2022 campaigns were and incrementally worked things out for a couple of seasons.
I really don't believe it unless there is compelling evidence that Red Bull is actually cheating. Otherwise, the drop in performance is really just them not understanding their car properly.
Now of course there is a speculation that the Mercedes and McLaren were fast because of flexi wings--and the accusation that somehow the FIA are "allowing" it now while they "didn't" in the past two seasons. Mind you, all of the front wings have passed the load tests per regulation ever since the beginning of the ground effect era, and this is why Red Bull and Ferrari are peeved at why the FIA didn't ban McLaren's and Mercedes' (as theirs did pass the load test but the FIA said no anyway in the past seasons). The FIA instead now put monitoring cameras to observe the flexure of the front wings on all cars to see if the front wings violated the spirit of the rules. The only way to do that is to somehow exploit the tolerance given in letting the front wings flex (because you cannot make something infinitely stiff without it being infinitely strong--too stiff and the loads will just snap the parts clean off).
We won't really know what the FIA decides until maybe near the end of at the end of the season. They are probably hiring experts to examine all the design documents that the teams are required to submit to the FIA and the data from the Front Wing Flexing Monitoring Cam 9001* (*not the official name) and see what they can make of it. But to me, there is no denying that if they are able to make a flexi wing that decreases drag at high speeds and flexes back while slowing down to recover downforce while staying in the rules to be absolute genius. Many also speculate that the FIA would allow flexi wings for 2025 if they stay as a passive aerodynamic device (and active aero is going to be a thing for 2026 onwards anyway).
Yea mate…. It was the braking system. The FIA has figured out a way to approach the whole ordeal without being called “cheating” Now they are bringing in updates that were dependent on that braking system working , but since it’s gone. Those upgrades aren’t working.
The asymmetric braking 'cheating' thing was already debunked many weeks ago by mechanic Calum Nicholas, stating basically "this is complete rubbish, source: me putting the car together every race". It could well as just be Aston Martin, who also hugely fell off a cliff in recent times. The problem is this car is way faster than last years RB car, but McLaren is just faster. The internal problems and people leaving and not being able to optimise this design might just be THE reason.
💯 , redbull employee claims they weren’t using asymmetric braking system so it must be true meanwhile they suffered performance loss when the exact system was ruled illegal by the fia 😂😂😂 the jokes just write themselves
For sure because if he helped cheat… he would come out and say it… right? 😂
If they were cheating, I'm pretty sure every member was going to be told to not say ANYTHING about it. Him coming out and saying that seems like it's his genuine reaction. When Ferrari were cheating in 2019, the entire paddock knew within a matter of minutes and it all got leaked anyways (as it always does in F1). Since there's still no solid leaks or anything, it's just media speculation and you guys are EATING it up it's so fucking hilarious to see
@@_-TC him coming out and saying it doesn't mean anything at all , rbr was CHEATING if they weren't, that asymmetric brake ban wouldn't have done anything to their performance but it did, the fact that you can't analise it on your own, and keep waiting for news is the funny part
@@lmfao3908 for real. Lol we’re still waiting for Ferrari to admit to cheating in 2019? 🤣 RB will not admit to cheating. They’re still using the catering excuse to cover up for them back in 2021 for the over budget cap spending. The FIA will allow these excuses because it helps avoid the “cheating” tag that comes with it.
Honestly I thinks what's actually happened from what we, the audience, can tell is that the other teams have just caught up to Red Bull finally. Mclaren has used it's 4th place wind tunnel time excellently and has the luxury of being able to test parts longer than teams like Red Bull, Mercedes or Ferrari, meaning they've mostly avoided the downgrade problem that the other Top 4 teams have run into this year. I don't think the Championship is lost for Verstappen though, or even that he's at that much of a disadvantage in the championship fight. All Verstappen has to do is survive Baku and Singapore and he genuinely has a straight shot for the WDC, especially if the Mclaren's either keep fighting one another, their pitwall lets them down for the millionth time or Merc and Ferrari pull out more miracle wins which take points away from Norris. The WCC is a different story. That shit's so cooked for Red Bull that its not out of the realm of possibility that Ferrari finish above them.
Sure. Or it was the braking system work around. Lol
@@At.mos.fEarProduktionz Ofc it was, are people that stupid? F1 is a business, period. Imagine F1 announcing now that Red Bull, at least in 2023 (I would add 2022, but lets skip that), was using an illegal device and won 22 out of 23 2023 races ilegally. This after the 2021 Abu Dhabi shit show. The reputation of F1 would be in the fucking mud. Its quite clear they found something. Max was cruising until Miami and suddenly a bunch of problems come up and their pace starts dropping lol. Max complaining about the balance more than ever, since then because the others found ways to develop without this device and its helping them now. Helmut Marko said they will run the bahrain spec car in baku, they are clueless about development. For comparison, Ferrari introduced problems in Spain with their upgrade and their new package, just 2 months later seems to have fixed them already (introduced in monza, instantly won), because they know what they are doing. Red bull knew what they were doing for 2 full years and "suddenly" are lost? Yeah, sure.
@@andreadg5429 yup … agreed.
agree ,but red bull in 2025 will finish behind mclaren ,ferrari,mercedes . Verstappen and red bull will be lucky if they win 1 race next season !
@19megamustaine85 I think next year will be a bit more competitive among the top teams. If they continue to allow the flexible wings that Merc and McClaren are using, then RB will have it too, and so will Ferrari.
Yeah, TommoF1 talked about the brake thing in his channel, then there was a clarification from FIA later in his video
So something like DAS gets only banned after the season but the break system during an ongoing one gets banned immediatly? hmmm
I doubt it’s because of a suspicious braking system. IIrc RB had a “upgrade” at Miami as well, and their highspeed cornering has gone down as well. I think it’s mostly correlation issues and ofc Newey leaving. Who wasn’t only involved with car development, also setup.
Love your eyes dude
It says "2020 Red Bull RB20" in the description
I said in the offseason when it came out that RB20 will be a revolution not evolution that RB20 will be much worse than RB19 was and than when Newey left the team I knew it is done for Redbull
maybe it was a way of newey to go crazy and try out new things also in mind no one will understand them, so he won't have to fight against his own monster haha
@@Marco-xz7rfnaw man. RedBull looked unbeatable in the beginning of the season. Once the braking advantage was exposed, RedBull dropped off a cliff. IRS got very little to do with Newey at the moment. He can’t fix this car or how it’s performance. Remember he actually said he was very displeased with certain aspects of the car which is part of the reason why he’s leaving. Newey isn’t part of this problem. It’s the braking system my guy.
@@At.mos.fEarProduktionz Yeah I don't know whom I can believe in that and probably we will never find out. I mean Ferrari blatantly had cheated with their engine and nothing was ever officially released :(
But yeah, I also was wondering how Red Bull still was that strong at the beginning. But also Max already was often saying, that he was confused he got Pole, so already then the car didn't feel well anymore but they still won races.
But the pace didnt fall off a cliff, RedBull was still quite quick even if the allegations thrown are true which I dont think is real because then it would really have shown in China itself.
Let's not forget Red bull enjoyed a good advantage with the initial overspend in the financial regulation
The overspend was less than 5% of the budget cap bro, and most of it came out of administrative mistakes and gardening leaves, as well as the infamous catering. Sure, they cheated and deserved their penalties, but come on, no team does what Red Bull did in 2022 and 2023 because of overspending less than 5%
A good advantage of a maximum 1.5 million. Not enough to cover 2 big crashes.
@@oussamabendakir1453 when the develpoment budget is less than 10M 1.5M is 15% extra dev budget
@@MuhammadNiz007 it was 145 million what are you talking about?
Again a whole lot of nothing really because we are still in season and nobody knows the reason. And also nobody knows how Mclaren even managed to jump 3 teams in pace.
Lando Norris shall win the Singapore Grand Prix this year, after finishing 2nd last year!
1. Why not just look at the telemetry. Go get it, make a video and show me where this magic brake trick was used. pick one corner. Show me. 2. If it was a brake trick, why would they be searching for the development steps that changed the car? This behaviour argues strongly against the brake trick argument, and evidences it was poor wind tunnel correlation that caused downgrades. Even James Alison said this. He called the Imola red bull upgrade a downgrade. 3. The FIA has said no teams were using it. 4. How would it even work? Explain it. No one can. The pressure inside brake circuit is far greater than any interia valve would be able to compensate for. So how does it work? Show me. 5. If it was a brake trick and it was removed, red bull would lose the same pace to every car on the grid. But they havnt. Only to Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren, indicating these teams have simply out developed red bull. 6. The whole story came from a single source who was a Spanish Journalist, there are no other sources of the rumour. But you have your fun. All you will do it trash your channel.
1. The FIA are not and have never been transparent.
The RB20 is now a LEGAL machine .
People need to stop beating around the bush and add up the recent news and clarification of the rules and use their brain.
Red Bull within a few races are now slower than McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari (despite destroying them earlier in the season) which is unheard of within a season.
Lmao
They were clearly doing something.
In my opinion they are as guilty as a pregnant nun.
than its much more sad.RB20 is shit without any caught cheating or some sneaky shit
I agree I remember when they told everyone Ferrari wasn't cheating in 19 or McLaren wasn't cheating in 07 oh wait lol they did tell everyone or did everyone forget that and the entire padock was on fire and being angry at Ferrari but I know abunch of people can't accept that RB made a bad car because they lost Marshal and disregarded Newey
Well tje breaks weren't illegal till the fiat decided to change the rules a bit. The fiat and innovation don't ho together
Hey Jonathan
When redbull cheats everyone pretends not to see it but if it’s another team everyone has confidence in saying it 😂😂😂 they are the ones suffering mid season, they were obviously cheating wtf is wrong woth people, are you afraid of saying it as it is
It’s because Max is a once in a lifetime driver… the greatest driver the world has ever seen(with asymmetrical brake system 😉) He can win in a Haas… that’s according to the crooked eyed gargoyle Helmut 😂😂😂
@@At.mos.fEarProduktionz lmao Helmut Marko was yammering on about how Max can win in a Haas 🤣🤣🤣, lots of people viewing him as the second coming of Christ in an f1 car smh , saying he spends so much time on the sim that's why he's good , I told the glazers , it doesn't matter how many sim rigs you have or whether you spend 55 hours a day on the sim , come race day , if your car isn't fast enough, you won't win , it doesn't matter who you are
Even Adrian Neweys credentials are questionable. If he's such a genius why were Red bull cheating? 😂
@@flacohernandez4380 exactly.
@@lmfao3908 To my understanding Lewis doesn’t use the sim much. I think he’s not a big fan. I could be wrong.