Sorry for the second comment but I got to finish this video: One thing Seraphim emphasizes with respect to the Apostolic Faiths that I find missing from a lot of popular protestant conception is the fact that Christianity is ultimately about God and his Bride, the Church, and the Marital Union between them. Something something “Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the lamb” - Rev 19:9.
I really appreciate this kind of dialogue, it's a breath of fresh air from the antagonistic/Dyer scene. Seraphim is a really good representative for the EO.
Sincere non-polemical EO’s are cool. Unfortunately the online face of EO is the Dyerite internet Orthobro “based&redpilled” thing. If not that, it’s the ex-newager “muh exotic eastern mysticism” thing. The Eastern Christianity of the Orthodox churches should not be confused with the meme cult of spiritually deracinated self-hating westerners.
I agree with Seraphim, the truism that “typology cannot establish doctrine” is at odds with the way the Biblical authors communicate with their audiences. Such a notion is not scriptural.
Superb research and expounding. I've been thinking this for several months now, us Catholics have way too many arguments from authority and epistemology ready to go and not nearly enough from the Scriptures - a real shame when the Scriptural arguments are as heavenly as these ones. Hamilton has earned a subscription btw.
Thankful for the video. I didn’t notice very many differences or discontinuities between the reformed doctrines I am aware of and those attributed seemingly exclusively to the Eastern Orthodox Church. While I appreciated the focus on typology, almost none of what I heard contradicted any of the reformed doctrines I am aware of. It was encouraging and constructive to hear of many of the great insights about the typology of the OT and NT. Thank you Seraphim and thank you to the host for producing this content. In Christ, M
Can you get Seraphim and Ortlund to dialogue? Ortlund has broaden my understanding, As some Orthodox speakers( on Idol Killer concerning PSA). As I grow, the eschew views are coming closer.
Interesting idea. But I'm not sure if the concern that its forcing our perspectives on the Scripture texts is answered. For example, we know that Revelation was not decided as part of the Canon till 4th century. That's a relatively late Patristic date so seeing this book as a keystone in the interpretation makes this theory a hardsell for me.
If I were Protestant and playing devil's advocate, I would just say Hamilton is begging the question, assuming that the pattern of human instrumentation continues into the New Testament, even though it is harder to see it when focusing on the NT itself. Of course, this just reveals the fundamental disconnect between Old and New Testaments in Protestantism, which sees Jesus as somehow abolishing human instrumentation, creating a radical break with ancient Judaism rather than fulfilling it. Many Protestant scholars are very aware of how the apostles/NT use the Old Testament in ways they would never use it (broader use of typology), so this would not be new or compelling to them. Therefore, I don't think one can dispense with Tradition as an authoritative key for interpretation. Appeals to grander narratives can be accused of begging the question. But this guy is much more coherent than Ben Bollinger and would be a worthy interlocutor with Lofton and Ybarra (wonder if I can find such a video....). He didn't wade into weird, self-defeating theories about Peter publicly/officially teaching heresy and that heresy being recorded in Scripture/Galatians....
I love this but out of a list of objections including that a lot of what he is saying is not necessarily foreign to us Protestants. The divine council for example, we have dozens of scholars who acknowledge these connections in a variety of ways, even the RUclips channel and podcast Bible Project talks about it, but you have the late Michael Heiser's books for example with in depth scholarship on these matters. Karl Barth had a lot to say about Mary. Ligonier ministry own Keith Mathison has a point by point response to the view of Mary as the Ark. And it's fair to say that many, but not all Protestants ignore the spiritual body of the saints. Anglicanism itself is still working out this debate over praying to the saints. Icons are common in even the Anglican Church of North America. It of course all comes down to presuppositions as we've mentioned before. That said good stuff and look forward to listening to this course.
@@coachp12b You can only hope for Protestants. And the Orthodox will hardly come to you. Because they are waiting for you. No Ecumenical Council has ever been in Rome...
![ROSÉ(로제) - APT. (Band VER.) (With. 이영지) [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IW8qaemx74g/mqdefault.jpg)
These are Biblical giants, and I'm not talking about Nephilim.
I have seen only one here. The other person present was clueless as to what the giant was talking about.
Seraphim Hamilton is great. I deeply appreciate EO’s like him.
Sorry for the second comment but I got to finish this video: One thing Seraphim emphasizes with respect to the Apostolic Faiths that I find missing from a lot of popular protestant conception is the fact that Christianity is ultimately about God and his Bride, the Church, and the Marital Union between them. Something something “Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the lamb” - Rev 19:9.
Seraphim and Suan. This is the best
I really appreciate this kind of dialogue, it's a breath of fresh air from the antagonistic/Dyer scene. Seraphim is a really good representative for the EO.
Sincere non-polemical EO’s are cool. Unfortunately the online face of EO is the Dyerite internet Orthobro “based&redpilled” thing. If not that, it’s the ex-newager “muh exotic eastern mysticism” thing.
The Eastern Christianity of the Orthodox churches should not be confused with the meme cult of spiritually deracinated self-hating westerners.
@@Rome_77 Eastern Orthodoxy is very sick in the Eastern world too. Just check out Russia and Serbia and their hatred of all mankind for that.
I total conquer truly a gentleman and brother. Thanks @ Suan Sonna for hosting.
@shawnpatrick1877 Jay when he's heated shows his true self.
@@shawnpatrick1877 you've heard of the Royal Path, right? pardon me for being judgmental but both Dyer and Erhan stray from it regularly.
I agree with Seraphim, the truism that “typology cannot establish doctrine” is at odds with the way the Biblical authors communicate with their audiences. Such a notion is not scriptural.
Superb research and expounding. I've been thinking this for several months now, us Catholics have way too many arguments from authority and epistemology ready to go and not nearly enough from the Scriptures - a real shame when the Scriptural arguments are as heavenly as these ones. Hamilton has earned a subscription btw.
What a lovely opening full of humility and grace
Very interesting discussion. Thank you, gentlemen!
Fascinating discussion 🙏🙏🙏
Thankful for the video.
I didn’t notice very many differences or discontinuities between the reformed doctrines I am aware of and those attributed seemingly exclusively to the Eastern Orthodox Church.
While I appreciated the focus on typology, almost none of what I heard contradicted any of the reformed doctrines I am aware of.
It was encouraging and constructive to hear of many of the great insights about the typology of the OT and NT.
Thank you Seraphim and thank you to the host for producing this content.
In Christ,
M
Smart guys talking about religion - click!
Can you get Seraphim and Ortlund to dialogue? Ortlund has broaden my understanding, As some Orthodox speakers( on Idol Killer concerning PSA). As I grow, the eschew views are coming closer.
What if Ante Nicene writers have a different take then later ones? Especially after Augustine muddying the waters.
Interesting idea.
But I'm not sure if the concern that its forcing our perspectives on the Scripture texts is answered. For example, we know that Revelation was not decided as part of the Canon till 4th century. That's a relatively late Patristic date so seeing this book as a keystone in the interpretation makes this theory a hardsell for me.
“It was canonized late so we shouldn’t treat it like canon” ??
Well done
Can you increase the volume on these videos?
If I were Protestant and playing devil's advocate, I would just say Hamilton is begging the question, assuming that the pattern of human instrumentation continues into the New Testament, even though it is harder to see it when focusing on the NT itself. Of course, this just reveals the fundamental disconnect between Old and New Testaments in Protestantism, which sees Jesus as somehow abolishing human instrumentation, creating a radical break with ancient Judaism rather than fulfilling it. Many Protestant scholars are very aware of how the apostles/NT use the Old Testament in ways they would never use it (broader use of typology), so this would not be new or compelling to them.
Therefore, I don't think one can dispense with Tradition as an authoritative key for interpretation. Appeals to grander narratives can be accused of begging the question.
But this guy is much more coherent than Ben Bollinger and would be a worthy interlocutor with Lofton and Ybarra (wonder if I can find such a video....). He didn't wade into weird, self-defeating theories about Peter publicly/officially teaching heresy and that heresy being recorded in Scripture/Galatians....
Found a video: ruclips.net/video/bCZVNhwXMjk/видео.html
I love this but out of a list of objections including that a lot of what he is saying is not necessarily foreign to us Protestants. The divine council for example, we have dozens of scholars who acknowledge these connections in a variety of ways, even the RUclips channel and podcast Bible Project talks about it, but you have the late Michael Heiser's books for example with in depth scholarship on these matters. Karl Barth had a lot to say about Mary. Ligonier ministry own Keith Mathison has a point by point response to the view of Mary as the Ark. And it's fair to say that many, but not all Protestants ignore the spiritual body of the saints. Anglicanism itself is still working out this debate over praying to the saints. Icons are common in even the Anglican Church of North America. It of course all comes down to presuppositions as we've mentioned before. That said good stuff and look forward to listening to this course.
I had never heard of Mr. Hamilton until I saw this. He seems like a good teacher. I pray that he comes home to communion with Rome.
🤦♂️
😂😂😂 Rather, he will wait for Rome to return.
@@alek27e return to where, Istanbul? 😂
@@coachp12b You can only hope for Protestants. And the Orthodox will hardly come to you. Because they are waiting for you. No Ecumenical Council has ever been in Rome...
@@alek27e like rafts waiting for the ship. Or in this case the Barque of Peter